Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
American Crew Retakes Hijacked Ship; President Obama's Agenda; Questioning the Conscience Clause; Hostage Negotiations Continue; Hijacked Crew Member Calls CNN
Aired April 08, 2009 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the Pentagon says that the American crew has retaken control of a cargo ship after a pirate attack off the Somali coast. The 20 crew members of the Maersk Alabama reported to be safe. And with one of the four pirates in custody now, it's also -- what are we doing here?
OK. We're also -- we've already talked about that. We're also going to talk about a Navy destroyer, we are being told, that's headed toward the ship. Not sure when it's going to get there. It was about eight hours away. We're pushing forward to get more details on that.
And as you can imagine, Chris Lawrence has been working all of his sources, as well as all of us here, trying to figure out the details.
Chris, what's the latest? Because we're now hearing that possibly there might be a hostage situation, or has that been knocked down?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, no, that's what The Associated Press has been reporting. And we've been saying all along, Kyra, that although the defense official told us that the American crew had retaken control of their ship, for the most part, and did have one hijacker in custody, we've been saying all along, there were four hijackers that came aboard, and we cannot account for those other three.
There were reports that they had tried to escape, but we never got a definitive answer on exactly what happened after that. You know, did they come back on the ship? Did they take something from the ship? Are they just off the ship?
We still don't know the exact answers to that, but we are fairly certain in saying that the crew does have control of most of the ship. They are in communication with the authorities, and that they have taken one of the hijackers hostage. And at this point, it does not appear that any of those American crew members have been harmed.
All right, Chris. Let us know as you get more information.
Sure appreciate it.
You know, the attack on the Alabama was the sixth pirate attack in that area in a week. And CNN's Jason Carroll actually talked with the father of Shane Murphy. He's the CO on the Alabama. He got the exclusive interview while working on another story, believe it or not, at the school where Shane had been actually teaching hijacking maneuvers.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE MURPHY, FATHER OF MAERSK ALABAMA CHIEF OFFICER SHANE MURPHY: They also sent a global distress message, which was received by the United States Navy and the U.S. Navy responded immediately. The problem is, that the Navy was almost 200 miles away. They used evasive maneuvers to keep the pirates off.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And they did that for several hours?
MURPHY: Three hours. Over three hours; three to five hours. And once the pirates get on board, there's nothing that can be done.
CARROLL: Do you know if anyone was armed on board?
MURPHY: No, the ship is not armed.
CARROLL: The pirates made their way on board?
MURPHY: They made their way on board. They held the crew in a secure area. They shut down all communication, no further communication. Stopped the ship and it progressed from that point on.
We have some indications now that the crew has overpowered the pirates. And I'm not sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And you can see that exclusive interview in its entirety tomorrow on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." That's beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
Let's go straight now to David McKenzie. He's been covering the pirate beat and is familiar with the tactics.
David, what have you been able to find out from your sources of the status right now of that ship?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the issue right now is the minute we heard from our reporting, and mostly from the Pentagon, is that the -- and from the ship company is that they might have managed to overpower some of the pirates and they have some kind of control of the ship. One thing we need to remember, though, based on my reporting over the last year on this issue of piracy is that it's never over until you have direct confirmation of these things.
There's a lot of rumors swirling around on these issues. Obviously, this boat is in a very dangerous and difficult situation far out to sea. It's hard to get direct information on these issues. And generally what happens is it takes a day or a couple of days to get the full picture to come through.
There have been in previous incidents of piracy, we can remember the (INAUDIBLE) giant tanker that was taken on. There were also false endings to that when we thought that that ship had been released by pirates. But there are all sorts of things that can happen out at sea, and it is difficult to know exactly what is going on, certainly with nightfall off the coast of Somalia and Kenya. It will be a very dangerous and desperate situation potentially -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, David, I know you're well connected. So we look to you to push forward, get any details you can about the status of that ship right now, and if indeed there might still be pirates on that vessel, possibly holding some people hostage.
We'll look to you for that.
David McKenzie, thanks so much.
Meanwhile, President Barack Obama is back home at the White House after his trip to Europe and Asia.
Kate Bolduan joining us now from the White House.
So Kate, what's on the agenda for the rest of the week? Probably a lot of sleep. That will be the first thing.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of sleep. I'm sure he definitely needs it, as well as everyone that was traveling with him. But it's back to domestic issues; the economy, of course.
While the president was overseas, unemployment hit a 25-year high. The president is scheduled to meet with his economic advisers Friday. But even before that, the president will be taking on another major pillar of his domestic priorities -- health care.
They've scheduled an event to be held here at the White House tomorrow. As the White House has described it, to discuss the need to enhance the quality of health care for the country's military.
So that's what is on tap, at least now, from here at the White House.
PHILLIPS: Now Kate, what about traveling out of country again? Talked about maybe going to Mexico, possibly other parts of the region? What are you hearing?
BOLDUAN: Yes, a quick turnaround, some more international travel. The president is set next week to make a stop in Mexico, will be meeting with President Felipe Calderon to talk about issues that we're hearing, immigration reform, as well as Mexico's drug-related violence that has been so much in the headlines recently.
The president will then be heading to the Caribbean for the fifth Summit of the Americas. This basically is a periodic gathering of regional heads of democratically-elected states and governments getting together to talk about regional issues, and quite a wide range of issues that we're hearing will be discussed -- the economy, economic development, poverty, energy, and Cuba. We're expecting Cuba as well to come up in this conversation -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. We'll be following it. Kate Bolduan, live from the White House.
Kate, thanks.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. More from CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Call it the conscience clause, a decades-old law allowing health care professionals to refuse treatment to patients based on moral or religious grounds. Many doctors oppose White House plans to tinker with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DAVID STEVENS, CEO, CHRISTIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: There's a well-funded and increasingly successful effort to discriminate against health care professionals based upon their deeply-held religious and moral beliefs. In some states, pharmacists must dispense certain medications or lose their licenses. Students are denied admission to medical schools or residency programs because they are not in favor of abortion. Doctors and nurses are losing their jobs or promotion because of their beliefs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta here to talk about he's been investigating what it means not only to you, but also the patients, and the impact, of course, on health care workers as well.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's provocative, it's controversial. There is a decades-long -- or maybe three-decades-long -- sort of conscience clause that's been in place, but what's at issue here is sort of a broadening of what this conscience clause can cover.
Now, a lot of people weighing in on this particular issue. This was a sort of proposal done at the last stages of the Bush presidency. And now there's a question about whether or not some of what was proposed may be rescinded or being talked about being rescinded.
Here's what we're talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANDY CHRISTIANSEN, OB/GYN: How are you doing?
GUPTA (voice-over): Twenty years ago, when Dr. Sandy Christiansen went to medical school, she never thought she'd face discrimination. Yet, because of her anti-abortion views, she says she was repeatedly denied the opportunity to perform medical procedures that another intern was allowed to do. When she pressed her superiors, she didn't like the response.
CHRISTIANSEN: She's doing that because she's working hard at the abortions and you haven't. And so she gets that perk.
GUPTA: Even after she got her license, Christiansen says she felt unaccepted by some of her peers because of her views. Now a medical consultant for a pregnancy resource center in Frederick, Maryland, she's nerve are performed an abortion and refuses to refer patients to abortion clinics.
CHRISTIANSEN: Just in the same with that my conscience would not allow me to perform an abortion, I wouldn't ask another colleague to do that.
GUPTA: But many health-care organizations, including the American Medical Association, believe health-care providers like Christiansen have an obligation to their patients to advise them of the options, despite their own beliefs.
Now a new regulation introduced by the Department of Health and Human Services would support Christiansen's right to refuse referrals and withhold information that goes against her own beliefs.
Critics argue there are already laws on the books protecting health-care professionals when it comes to refusing care for personal reasons. The new proposal goes further by making it so that all health-care workers from doctors to janitors who work in the hospitals may refuse to provide services, information or advice to patients if they are morally against it.
Critics fear that could mean anything from fertility treatments to abortion, to stem cell research.
ADAM SONFIELD, GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE: This regulation explicitly allows that doctor, or that nurse or any other health-care provider, to withhold information that would be relevant for a patient trying to make a medical decision.
GUPTA: Organizations like the American Nurses Association already have a code of ethics for their members. They believe nurses and other health-care professionals are there for the patient, and it's the patient's prerogative to make decisions on care based on their own beliefs, not the health-care provider's.
MARY JEAN SCHUMANN, AMERICAN NURSES ASSOCIATION: We don't go to school to learn how to make God-like decisions. That's not what it's about for us. It's about trying to get to where the patient is and helping the patient make their own decisions. You know, nobody appoints to us the ultimate person to pass judgment.
GUPTA: But Christensen says she's not playing God, just exercising her code of ethics, along with the Hippocratic Oath. CHRISTIANSEN: Why would you want to eliminate people, you know, who have these certain held beliefs and conscience from a particular field of practice? Frankly, all the more reason to held them there.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: All right. Lay out the scenarios and what we're talking about here.
GUPTA: So a conscience clause of sorts has been on the books for a long time, and a lot of times that was in the scenario of abortion, primarily, and to some extent, for example, a morning-after pill. So a woman would go to a pharmacy asking for a morning-after pill with explanation, with a discussion of options. That pill may not have always been provided.
Now what was being talked about here is much broader in some ways than that. For example, a lab technician who decides he or she does not believe in stem-cell research, so refuses to process something that involves stem cells. A fertility clinic that decides a same-sex couple is not entitled to having a child, so they don't offefer treatment or offer IVF to that same-sex couple. We're talking about a much broader reach than what h as been on the books for almost 30 years.
PHILLIPS: I know you, I consider, pretty well, and you have strong morals and beliefs. And how do you, as a brain surgeon, how do you remain neutral when you're dealing with patients or you're in the operating room or you're advising family members?
GUPTA: You know, I think it's a very fair question. In some ways, for me, a bit easier, because I think in the world of neurosurgery, we're not as sort of susceptible to some of the thornier issues, if you will, in medicine. It does come up sometimes from a patient's perspective. For example, someone who refuses a blood transfusion, and I think they may need that transfusion to get the best care or life-saving care.
But, you know, I think that doctors do have the obligation to take the very best care of their patients. And if for some reason they feel that they can't, to be able to offer the best options. So I don't think I can do this, but here's a doctor who can, so the patient is not left in the lurch.
But again, as I said at the beginning of this, this is going to become a very controversial -- it already is controversial, but I think over the next few days, we're going to hear more about doctors and what they believe can, should or would not be done.
PHILLIPS: We'll keep following it.
GUPTA: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Sanjay.
GUPTA: I'll be back, absolutely. PHILLIPS: All right. OK, I'm holding you to that, because it's tough to get you, Mr. Morning Guy.
All right. Coping in the quake zone, the latest on the search for those survivors after Italy's devastating earthquake.
Plus, a look at what's being done to help those who have been left homeless. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Thousands of police, soldiers, emergency workers and volunteers pressing forward with the grim recovery in L'Aquila, Italy. The death toll in Monday's earthquake now stands at 260. A mass funeral will be held on Friday.
And survivors are having a pretty rough time physically and emotionally. Some 27,000 people left homeless. Many of them are living in tent cities, but for how long? Only they -- well, nobody can really guess at this point.
CNN's Fionnuala Sweeney live from L'Aquila right now -- Fionnuala.
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, this is essentially the second night of the existence of this tent city, and there are some 17,000 out of those 27,000 that you mentioned who are living in tents in and around this city. The other 10,000 have been located in hotels. But as you can imagine, these people have really no jobs to go to as yet, no homes to return to, and essentially are spending their second night here wondering how they are going to spend the rest of their lives, indeed wondering how long they are going to be here.
The Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, was here earlier in the day and he has, as you know, pledged money to try and rebuild this town. But he also has talked about the necessity for people to remain where they are in these tents, and then that gives the government time to build pre-fabrication buildings for more longer- term structured buildings can be put in place -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: We'll follow it.
Fionnuala Sweeney, thanks so much.
Well, what's up in Fargo? They're sandbagging again just days after a record crest on the Red River. We're going to find out when the Red River could spill over its banks again.
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Updating you now on the pirate attack off the coast of Somalia. The AP reporting now that a crew member is on board the Maersk Alabama, actually saying that the ship's captain has been taken hostage and that negotiations are under way for his release.
The Associated Press also reporting that the 20 American sailors had taken one of the four pirates into custody and negotiated their own release. This report also says that the crew does in fact have control of the ship, as the Pentagon has reported, and that the pirates are in a lifeboat. Apparently, they have the ship's captain with them there.
Obviously a fluid situation. We're working all our sources to confirm exactly what's going on.
The attack on the Maersk Alabama was the sixth pirate attack, by the way, in that area in just a week. And it just so happens our CNN's Jason Carroll talked with the father of Shane Murphy. He's the second in command, the CO, there on the Alabama. Jason had been at the school where Shane Murphy had been teaching, also a school where his father teaches on what? Yes, hijacking.
Here's part of the interview that you'll see only on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURPHY: They also sent a global distress message, which was received by the United States Navy and the U.S. Navy responded immediately. The problem is, that the Navy was almost 200 miles away. They used evasive maneuvers to keep the pirates off.
CARROLL: And they did that for several hours?
MURPHY: Three hours. Over three hours; three to five hours. And once the pirates get on board, there's nothing that can be done.
CARROLL: Do you know if anyone was armed on board?
MURPHY: No, the ship is not armed.
CARROLL: The pirates made their way on board?
MURPHY: They made their way on board. They held the crew in a secure area. They shut down all communication, no further communication. Stopped the ship and it progressed from that point on.
We have some indications now that the crew has overpowered the pirates. And I'm not sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, you can see that exclusive interview in its entirety tomorrow morning on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." That's beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern Time.
Meanwhile, our Pentagon Corespondent Barbara Starr, she's at the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet headquarters in Bahrain with details on how the military is dealing with all of this.
We understand a destroyer is on its way to the region. What else do you know, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, we were traveling through the region and happened to be in Bahrain, the headquarters of the Fifth Fleet, ,as all of this unfolded today. Tonight, the Fifth Fleet obviously watching this very carefully.
Our Pentagon correspondent, Chris Lawrence, reporting that a Navy ship is now on its way to the immediate vicinity of the hijacking to try to render assistance and possibly board the ship and check out the crew. No military assault is planned at this point.
As you pointed out, Kyra, the reports are confusing at this hour about the exact status of all of the pirates and all of the crew. Some reports now, coming to family members, at least, that some of the crew is fine, but the exact status of the ship and the entire crew not entirely resolved yet, not entirely made public.
Let's just set a little scene for people here.
These are some of the most dangerous waters in the world for cargo shipping. This is off the coast of Somalia. Dozens and dozens of hijackings over the last couple of years.
What is happening is the hijackers, Somalia pirates, if you will, getting an increasing capability, moving far out to sea now. This latest event happening some 200 miles to sea, or better than that. These are no longer pirates in just rickety wooden boats sailing out there to see what trouble they can cause. They have capability, coordination, and weapons. And they are moving deep into international waters, into international shipping lanes. That's why the U.S. Navy is here. That's why there are several coalition warships in this region trying to protect the shipping as it moves through this area. Oil shipping, a lot of cargo shipping moving through from the Pacific, from Asia to Africa.
Let's be clear, U.S. military cargo moving out of Iraq, coming through many of these same shipping channels. It's a very strategic area. There is a lot of concern.
And these are waters, Kyra, that are approximately four times the size of Texas. So to monitor all of it, to escort every ship is virtually impossible. The pirates move in and they can take over very quickly as we saw today - Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Real quickly, Barbara, if you don't mind, we were told there was relief aid going to Kenya that was on that ship. Do you have any confirmation on whether the pirates wanted those supplies and the food, or was it money that they were seeking?
STARR: We do not know, to be clear, whether they even knew that relief and food aid was aboard that ship.
In the past, Somalia pirates have hijacked a number of ships carrying food aid to Kenya, into Sudan, to Darfur. The World Food Program has had a number of hijackings and has sought armed escort through these waters for its ships. But to be clear, Kyra, most of these are indeed ransoms. They seize the cargo ship, they contact the shipping company, and they demand multimillion dollar ransoms for the release of these civil commercial mariners. These are commercial maritime crews. Generally, people from all over the world and they are held for ransom - Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr live there from Bahrain, Fifth Fleet headquarters, appreciate it.
Jason Carroll no joining us on the phone. As you know, Jason just happened to be at the school that trains these maritime crews to go out on ships like this. Something that they train on heavily, hijacking tactics. He was working on this piece when this story broke. Jason happened to gain the exclusive interview with the father of the C.O. of that ship, Shane Murphy. He actually called into his father, told him what was going on, told him they had actually taken down one of the pirates. Jason actually sat down with his father for that exclusive interview.
Jason, let ask you, since we last talked, you were talking about how Shane was able to reach his dad, tell him what had happened. Have you heard anything since these new reports coming out of the "Associated Press" that possibly the captain is being held hostage by these pirates off that ship in another boat right now?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I have not heard confirmation of that yet, Kyra. Still going on the information that we had just in terms of what had happened to Shane Murphy and his experience there on the vessel. Not -- we do not yet have confirmation in terms of what has happened to the captain.
As you know, Shane is the chief officer on board. So, he is second in command. And in terms of his story and in terms of what he was able to tell his wife, Serena (ph) - and that was early this morning at about 10:00 a.m. - he were able to get a call into her saying that he was alive and that he didn't have long to speak but that they were able to take down one of the pirates. His quote was, "We took one of them down." And that the situation was in the process of resolving itself.
So, that's what Shane said to his wife. That was at 10:00 a.m., again, Eastern Standard Time this morning.
You heard a brief part of the interview that we did with Joe Murphy, Shane's father, who is an instructor here at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy and who dealt specifically in how to deal with these types of pirates and the actions that can be taken. His son was well trained in that. His son graduated from the academy in 2001. And, in fact, Kyra, had just spoken at the school a short time ago to some of the cadets here about piracy and how to deal with them.
So, very ironic, obviously, that here he is at the academy, graduated from here, his father instructs here at the Maritime Academy and then found himself in a situation that he teaches about.
PHILLIPS: It's pretty amazing that you happened to be there when this went down and you got the exclusive interview. Jason, we look forward to the full interview on AMERICAN MORNING tomorrow morning sometime between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m.
Great job, Jason. Thanks so much.
So how do you stop pirate attacks? Well, a retired Marine says the United States needs to go into Somalia and take them out. We're going to talk to him ahead, right here in the NEWSROOM.
And a VIP welcome for some American troops back home from Iraq. Vice President Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, flew to North Carolina this morning to welcome home members of the 18th Airborne Corp from Ft. Bragg. They spent more than a year in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As much as people care, they just don't know the extent of the sacrifice you make. But I want you to know that my wife and I know. President Obama, Michelle Obama know. My colleagues in the Congress know, and we appreciate it more than you can imagine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Vice President's son, Bo, is serving in Iraq with the Delaware Army National Guard.
At Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, the body of another fallen hero returns home and we lift up his life today. For the second time in three days, TV cameras were allowed to cover the return of an American combat casualty. Not just a casualty, but a person with a name and a background and a family. We're talking about 28-year-old Army Specialist Israel Mejias. He arrived late last night. He was killed Sunday by an improvised explosive device in Iraq.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And we want to bust out of that break to bring you some breaking news right now.
Apparently, we've been able to reach a member of the Maersk crew there off the Somali coast where those pirates attacked that vessel. As you know, members of the crew took down one of those pirates. We are now being told the captain being held hostage in another type of boat off of that vessel. We were able to reach Ken Quinn, second mate there on the Alabama.
Ken, can you hear me OK?
KEN QUINN, SECOND MATE, MAERSK ALABAMA (via telephone): Yes.
PHILLIPS: Ken, can you tell me the situation right now?
QUINN: Right now they want to hold our captain for ransom and we're trying to get him back. We have a coalition warship that will be here in three hours. So, we're just trying to hold them off for three more hours and then we'll have a warship here to help us.
PHILLIPS: Can you tell me where your captain is in proximity to your cargo ship? Where is the -- who was he with? What type of boat is he on right now?
QUINN: He's in the ship's lifeboat. They sink their boat - when they boarder a ship, they sink their boats. So the captain talked them into getting off the ship with our lifeboat. But we took one of their pirates hostage and we did an exchange.
What? OK. I've got to go.
PHILLIPS: Ken, can you stay with me for just two more seconds?
QUINN: What?
PHILLIPS: Tell me what the - can you tell me about the negotiations, what you've offered these pirates in exchange for your captain?
QUINN: We had one of their hostages. We had a pirate we took and we kept him for 12 hours. We tied him up and he was our prisoner.
PHILLIPS: Did you return him?
QUINN: Yes, we did. But we returned him, but they didn't return the captain. So now we're just trying to offer them whatever we can. Food. But it's not working too good. We're just trying to hold off until...
PHILLIPS: Ken, are you in control of the vessel right now?
QUINN: Yes. Yes. Yes. They are not aboard now.
PHILLIPS: OK.
QUINN: We're controlling the ship now.
PHILLIPS: So, can you see that lifeboat with your captain, with the pirates? Is he OK? Is he still alive?
QUINN: Yes. Yes. He talks on the -- he's got one of our ship's radios, yes. We talk to him.
PHILLIPS: So what is it the pirates want now in exchange for your captain?
QUINN: All right. I've got to hang up. I can't - I've got to go right now. I got to...
PHILLIPS: All right. Ken, I don't want to hold you up. Appreciate it.
Ken Quinn, second mate there on the Alabama.
My gosh. You could hear the phones ringing right behind him there.
You heard it. They are desperately seeking that military help, hoping that that destroyer - U.S. Naval destroyer gets to them soon. A coalition ship, he said. He says, about three hours away.
Right now, he said, here's the deal that they made with the pirates. The pirates were on their ship and they were able to apprehend one of the pirates. As you heard, Ken Quinn there, they tied him up, took him down. And the deal they were making was to exchange the pirate that they had taken down in -- they wanted to exchange him for the captain that the pirates had taken. And the captain that we're being told is still alive with those pirates in a lifeboat that actually came from their vessel.
So, right now they are trying to negotiate with those pirates to get their captain back. It sounds like those pirates did not keep their end of the deal. They released one of the pirates back that they had captured, but they have not received their captain of their ship in return. So, right now, still trying to negotiate.
Here's what's amazing, is that this crew is doing this on their own. This crew that's on this ship, the Alabama, a crew that we have told has had pretty extensive training on hijacking issues.
You know, our Jason Carroll was able to talk to the father of Shane Murphy. Murphy, he's the second in command on that ship. Now that his captain is being held hostage, this man right here is in charge of that ship, trying to figure out how to get his captain back. Shane Murphy, the C.O. of f the Maersk working to negotiate with his crew.
You heard from Ken Quinn, the second mate right there on the Alabama, working with Shane and other members of the crew trying to get their captain back.
The good news is, they said that they can hear their captain. He's talking on the radio with those pirates in that lifeboat from their actual vessel. But it's a fluid situation. They're trying to save his life. They're trying to get him back. But once again, Shane Murphy running the operation there with his crew. Pretty amazing situation right now.
And I'm told we have Shane's dad on the line. Joe - no, we don't. OK, we do not have him on the line.
But let me just give you a little bit of that interview that our Jason Carroll got with his father talking about the fact that Shane was able to call him, say they took one of those pirates down, that they had control of the vessel. We didn't know yet that the captain had been taken hostage. But his dad was talking about that phone call, how his son is trained. By the way, the father also teaching there at MMA, the school where they actually teach how to deal with hijackings.
Here's what he said to Jason Carroll in the past hour and a half.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE MURPHY, FATHER OF MAERSK ALABAMA CHIEF OFFICER SHANE MURPHY: They also sent a global distress message, which was received by the United States Navy and the U.S. Navy responded immediately. The problem is, that the Navy was almost 200 miles away. They used evasive maneuvers to keep the pirates off.
CARROLL: And they did that for several hours?
MURPHY: Three hours. Over three hours; three to five hours. And once the pirates get on board, there's nothing that can be done.
CARROLL: Do you know if anyone was armed on board?
MURPHY: No, the ship is not armed.
CARROLL: The pirates made their way on board?
MURPHY: They made their way on board. They held the crew in a secure area. They shut down all communication, no further communication. Stopped the ship and it progressed from that point on.
We have some indications now that the crew has overpowered the pirates. And I'm not sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Now, as we told you, a coalition ship, U.S. Navy destroyer, is on the way to try to help that situation. We don't have any pictures yet, any videotape. All we have is the one interview we actually got from the second mate right there on the ship who's in the middle of negotiating with his crew with the pirates to try to get their captain back being held hostage right now.
You know, at sea, it's really hard too to tell friend from foe. And that's something that I learned firsthand when I patrolled off the coast of Iraq with the U.S. Navy.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Right now, we're about 40 miles from the Iraqi territorial waters. And overnight, commanders of this operation observed two ships coming out of Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: It's quite an orchestrated effort and it's probably what is going on right now out at sea.
You can see here, in this situation, the Navy loading up their guns, putting on their bullet-proof gear. You know, these high-threat boarding teams don't always know what they are up against until they actually reach the ship. So we'll be interested to see what the crew on that destroyer headed to that ship off the coast of Somalia will see, what they're going to do, and how they're going to handle the hostage situation right now.
You know, in this case, where I was, nobody got hurt. The boarding teams found illegal cargo, but they didn't find any pirates.
Now, pirates, as you know, hijack dozens of vessels. And they actually hijacked this many just in 2000 -- or last year alone. In response, the U.S. Navy launched an anti-piracy task force. That happened in January. Well, it's April now, and look at all of these pirate attacks since the start of the year.
Major General Tom Wilkerson, a retired Marine, now heads up the U.S. Naval Institute and he says that that task force has been an utter failure.
And sir, if you don't mind, I want to get to the fact that task force has been an utter failure. Obviously, we can see that by all of the hijackings that have taken place. And now here we are, and I don't know if you were able to hear Ken Quinn, he's the second mate on board the...
MAJ. GEN. TOM WILKERSON, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): Yes, I was.
PHILLIPS: OK, great. He's on board the Alabama right there. We had a chance to talk to him. They are trying right now to save their captain. A captain being held hostage by these pirates. You know, it's up to them right now. They don't have any support right now, sir. They've just got the crew and Shane Murphy is the C.O. in charge right now because the captain has been taken hostage.
WILKERSON: That's right.
PHILLIPS: We heard from his father. He's been very well trained in hijacking situations. Apparently, they took down this one pirate and they were getting ready to make the switch, but the pirates didn't give the captain back. So what do they do now, sir?
WILKERSON: The pirates don't have a tendency to follow rules, Kyra. And the problem is, we've got too many rules. And that's the reason that combined task force is having so much difficulty. They are not equipped to handle the mission.
And so, you see all of those little dots on your map that show where piracy is still flourishing. And it's a bit uncomfortable for me considering that America cut her teeth in 1804 on forwarding (ph) pirates when Thomas Jefferson was president. We went to Tripoli because we were paying them 20 percent of our annual budget in 1804 as ransom. Well, what we need to do now is refigure how we're going to handle this situation, because next time it could be Americans that are hostage in greater numbers and that's a very delicate situation.
PHILLIPS: Interesting. So what you're telling me, if you want to go back to the 1800s, and I'm assuming you're talking about the Barbary Pirates...
WILKERSON: You are, that's right. PHILLIPS: OK, so you're saying the U.S. has not learned its lesson since then? That ransom has sort of been this ongoing tool for all of these years? I find that hard to believe that other tactics haven't been enforced. I mean, what should they have done?
WILKERSON: There's a lot of international law involved. And the problem we have and the problem that all of us faced, all of the developed nations are out there trying to protect their vessels. The tail is wagging the dog. It's favoring those who would be pirates and take hostages and demand ransom instead of allowing those who have a legitimate interest in free transit to take care of their ships and their people and move them. And there's a certain irony here and it shouldn't be lost on us.
PHILLIPS: So, sir, what's the answer? I mean, you can't root out the pirates, right? Because the pirates are an outcome, for example, in Somalia, of pretty much a lawless region right now. I mean, the government is in shambles and this is the way pirates get money, correct?
WILKERSON: It was fun to hear you say that, Kyra. The irony isn't lost on me that you said they're in a "lawless region," yet most of our handcuffs are because of the law.
The answer might well be a return to a more 1804 posture, and you should do that sooner rather than later. Are we going to wait until Americans are killed? Are we going to wait until key cargo might be captured? Are we going to pay ransom?
And President Obama's team ought to be looking at this pretty closely, because it is not too far in our distance past that a presidency has been defined by how a new president responded to hijacking and taking American hostages.
PHILLIPS: So if you had a chance to sit down with the president or you had a chance to advise this anti-piracy task force, I mean, what would you say? What would be one, two, three? What would you say the strategy should be for right now?
WILKERSON: The answer is pretty simple and very hard to do. You have to take out where the pirates live and give them no incentive to continue doing piracy. You can't just patrol up and down an ocean that you described correctly as four times the size of Texas. I mean, that's irrelevant. It's a poor use of assets and it's very clear from the dots on your map, it's not working.
We have got to step up to plate and recognize piracy will continue unless you erase it.
PHILLIPS: Sounds like you need to sit down with the president.
Major General Tom Wilkerson, appreciate your time, sir.
WILKERSON: My pleasure. Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And just a few minutes ago I had a chance to talk with Ken Quinn, he's a crew member aboard the Maersk Alabama. He also told me that the pirates have taken the ship's captain hostage. He also told me that the crew had taken a pirate hostage, tied him up, expected to trade him for the captain, but apparently were double crossed.
So that's where we stand now. The crew has the ship, their captain's in the life boat with the pirates as their hostage. The crew is trying to get him back, offering them food for his release. But so far, no dice. They're hoping that a Navy ship that's on the way - apparently a destroyer, U.S. Naval destroyer, on its way, three hours away.
Ken also told me that they can talk with their captain by radio and that he's OK at this point.
Let's go ahead and watch that interview once again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN: He's in the ship's lifeboat. They sink their boat - when they boarder a ship, they sink their boats. So the captain talked them into getting off the ship with our lifeboat. But we took one of their pirates hostage and we did an exchange.
What? OK. I've got to go.
PHILLIPS: Ken, can you stay with me for just two more seconds?
QUINN: What?
PHILLIPS: Tell me what the - can you tell me about the negotiations, what you've offered these pirates in exchange for your captain?
QUINN: We had one of their hostages. We had a pirate we took and we kept him for 12 hours. We tied him up and he was our prisoner.
PHILLIPS: Did you return him?
QUINN: Yes, we did. But we returned him, but they didn't return the captain. So now we're just trying to offer them whatever we can. Food. But it's not working too good. We're just trying to hold off until...
PHILLIPS: Ken, are you in control of the vessel right now?
QUINN: Yes. Yes. Yes. They are not aboard now.
PHILLIPS: OK.
QUINN: We're controlling the ship now. PHILLIPS: So, can you see that lifeboat with your captain, with the pirates? Is he OK? Is he still alive?
QUINN: Yes. Yes. He talks on the -- he's got one of our ship's radios, yes. We talk to him.
PHILLIPS: So what is it the pirates want now in exchange for your captain?
QUINN: All right. I've got to hang up. I can't - I've got to go right now. I got to...
PHILLIPS: All right. Ken, I don't want to hold you up. Appreciate it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Once again, that was Ken Quinn, second mate right there on the vessel right there, the Alabama, trying desperately to negotiate with the pirates that have their captain held hostage. So far, we've heard the captain is OK. They're going back and forth right now at this moment.
Incredible that we were able to touch base with him. But here's what is interesting, no one else is in the region and able to help this crew. It is up to this crew solely to try and negotiate the life of their captain. Right now, it's in their hands. Shane Murphy, the C.O., the second in command, right now taking the reins of that crew and trying to figure out with Ken Quinn, second mate, and other members how indeed they're going to get the captain back.
We're on this story. We're following it and pushing it forward. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: The hostage situation continues right now after the coast - or off the coast of Somalia. It was just a few minutes ago I had a chance to talk with Ken Quinn, the second mate aboard that vessel. He's a crew member on the Maersk Alabama.
He actually told me that the pirates have taken the ship's captain hostage. Ken told me that the crew had taken a pirate hostage. Actually tied him up, expected to trade him for the captain, but apparently were double-crossed.
So that's where we stand right now. The crew has the ship, control of the ship. Their captain's in a lifeboat with the pirates as they're holding their captain hostage. The crew is trying to get him back, offering them food for his release. But so far, nothing has happened.
They're hoping that a Navy ship, a destroyer that's on its way right now to the region, about 2 1/2 hours away, will be able to help them. Ken also told me that they can talk with their captain by radio and so far they know that he is OK. They actually have heard his voice.
Now, that attack on the Maersk Alabama was the sixth pirate attack in that area in a week. And it just so happened our CNN's Jason Carroll talked with the father of Shane Murphy. We told you about Shane. He's the second in command right now on the Alabama. Once the captain was taken hostage, Shane had to take over.
And here's what's ironic, as Jason was working a story there at the MAA - or the MMA school on maritime training, that he found out Shane Murphy, the captain of that ship out off the coast of Somali was actually teaching at that school, his father is a teacher at that school. And so when Shane found out about the pirates, he called his dad. Jason was there and scored the exclusive interview. It's something you'll only see on CNN.
Here's how his dad explains everything went down.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURPHY: They also sent a global distress message, which was received by the United States Navy and the U.S. Navy responded immediately. The problem is, that the Navy was almost 200 miles away. They used evasive maneuvers to keep the pirates off.
CARROLL: And they did that for several hours?
MURPHY: Three hours. Over three hours; three to five hours. And once the pirates get on board, there's nothing that can be done.
CARROLL: Do you know if anyone was armed on board?
MURPHY: No, the ship is not armed.
CARROLL: The pirates made their way on board?
MURPHY: They made their way on board. They held the crew in a secure area. They shut down all communication, no further communication. Stopped the ship and it progressed from that point on.
We have some indications now that the crew has overpowered the pirates. And I'm not sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: He's not sure, but we can tell you we talked to the second mate and what we know now. The captain of that ship being held hostage in a lifeboat from that vessel -- right now, Joe's son Shane and his crew trying to negotiate for the life of their captain.
You can see the exclusive interview in its entirety tomorrow morning on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." That's beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern.
That does it for us.
Rick Sanchez takes it from here.
