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Pirates Attack Another U.S. Ship; Right-Wing Terror Groups on the Rise in America?; Suspected Nazi Faces Deportation
Aired April 15, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I can't wait to see him. That's going to be huge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we really can't wait to see him. Everybody here is dying to finally get him back. He's been through a lot.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): But the wait drags on, because another U.S. ship is attacked, and guess who has to come to the rescue? The USS Bainbridge with Captain Phillips on board. And the French now say they have captured 11 suspected pirates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The election of Obama certainly has played for these groups.
SANCHEZ: Right-wing extremists are recruiting more and could radicalize returning soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan. That's a warning from Homeland Security.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Washington, listen to us clearly.
SANCHEZ: Protesting higher taxes an American tradition. A Tea Party organizer joins me to explain why now.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we don't lay this new foundation now, it won't be long before we're right back where we are today.
SANCHEZ: The president answers his critics.
How can one man said to have spiritual powers be allowed to steal tens of thousands of children? You will find out.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Kutcher, you're playing out of your field.
SANCHEZ: And answering Ashton Kutcher's challenge. He wants to be the Twitter king. How dare he? Calling all tweets, Larry and I need you.
Your national conversation begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez here from the world headquarters of CNN in Atlanta, where we do the news with your reaction and the current events of the day.
Can you believe it? Speaking of current events of the day, another American vessel has come under attack, and this is a particularly violent attack. This ship, the Liberty Sun, was hit with machine gun fire and grenades.
The crew had to hide below deck, fearing for their lives until finally they were rescued, are you ready for this, rescued by the Bainbridge, who still had on board the captain of the last American ship that they had to rescue a few days ago.
There he is. Captain Richard Phillips saw it all. Now, look at these pictures, these pictures just coming in to CNN, pirates going zero for two today. That is the French navy taking down what it calls a mother ship -- it's a pirate command boat -- and arresting 11 Somali pirates, they say.
The French say they tracked the pirates overnight, after they attacked a Liberian-flagged cargo ship and then tried to seize it. They failed. And now those 11 suspected pirates are busted.
On the phone with me now as we continue to look at some of these pics coming in from that scene is Christophe Prazuck. He's speaking for the French military for us.
Captain, are you there? Thanks so much for joining us, sir.
CAPTAIN CHRISTOPHE PRAZUCK, FRENCH MILITARY SPOKESMAN: Yes, I am. Good afternoon.
SANCHEZ: Thank you, sir.
What did you see out there? What happened?
PRAZUCK: Well, this morning, we took 11 pirates. They were -- the operation took place in -- 500 nautical miles off the coast of Kenya. And, as you said, the pirates were tracked all night after an attack yesterday evening against a Liberian cargo ship.
SANCHEZ: What did they do to the Liberian cargo ship, by the way? What did you see them do?
PRAZUCK: Well, the helicopter of the frigate was on the scene of action, and they shot with their AK-47 and grenades, propelled grenade, but the ship was able to escape with the help of the helicopter.
SANCHEZ: So, this was a full-scale assault or attack that you witnessed before you decide to go after these 11 pirates?
PRAZUCK: Yes. Well, the three ships were -- three pirate boats were operating. And they gathered during the night. We were tracking them. And the three boats where one mother ship, a logistics ship with a lot of crew on board, water, food, and two assault small boats. And when they were gathered in the morning, we were able to intervene and to catch them.
SANCHEZ: You know, these pirates are quoted as saying in some cases that they're now going to go after the French and the Americans. Does that intensify your effort to try and stop them? And is that what this was that you're telling us about now?
PRAZUCK: Well, we're totally involved in these operations.
Again, the pirates, during the last year, we have conducted nine operations against them. We have caught 74 of them. And we will continue.
SANCHEZ: You know, I'm wondering what you're going to do with these 11 suspects pirates. Are you going to take them in? Where are they going to be tried? Where are they going to be prosecuted?
PRAZUCK: In the European Union, under which the frigate was operating, has special agreement with Kenya, and so they will -- probably will be transferred to Kenya in the following days.
SANCHEZ: Captain Prazuck, job well down, sir.
PRAZUCK: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Thank you for taking time to talk to us. We appreciate it.
Well, we could cover pirate attacks off of Somalia literally every day. That's how bad the problem has gotten there. And we brought a guest in yesterday because we thought he would be as good as anybody to talk to us, if not better. Joe Sestak is a retired U.S. admiral, who also now happens to be a congressman from the state of Pennsylvania.
Welcome again, Congressman. We thank you for being with us.
REP. JOE SESTAK (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Thanks, Rick. Good to be back.
SANCHEZ: All right, what you do you make of these scenes that we are describing that apparently occurred overnight, the situation with the French, and another American vessel attacked, this time extremely violently? They used machine gun fire and they used grenades.
SESTAK: I think that's what most important here is that we prevent the erosion of the international maritime legitimacy, which is established primarily by the U.S. Navy. There's no one better than us.
And I think, when you step back, that there are various means that we can bring to the fore to make sure we clamp down on these criminals that are on the high seas.
For example, Rick, back in the mid-'80s, when Iran and Iraq were fighting, we had convoys by which we brought vessels in and out and through the Persian Gulf. In fact, there's only 50 vessels that go past Somalia north and 50 south each day.
That's one possibility by the U.S. and international navies. Another one is back, in World War II, we used to put military detachments on merchant Marine vessels.
But the key thing here, Rick -- and I strongly believe this -- that while Blackwater and other types of private contractors could always be considered an option, that, by and large, the template for the rules of engagement, for the legitimacy of what's going to be, the heft of that has got to be by the U.S. Navy. We have 300 vessels...
(CROSSTALK)
SESTAK: ... this coast.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question, because I was just letting a little while ago to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. And you know what she said? She said the only way that this is going to be done is if we somehow get the Somalians to cooperate with us.
And as she was saying that, I thought to myself, good luck. This is a lawless country. You can probably not get the Somali government to do much even for itself, correct?
SESTAK: I have a lot of respect for the secretary of state.
That said, I believe what she probably means is, ultimately, the source of this problem will only be resolved is once we resolve the issue of the lawlessness within Somalia. But that's years in the coming. Today, we have bandits on the sea. We have got to stop them cold.
SANCHEZ: So, to those who say, including many who talk to us here on this show, members of the social media on MySpace and on Facebook and on Twitter, who have been talking to me about this story since earlier this week, saying, look, we have got to go in there and make Somalia work, or this problem will never go away, you're saying, before we can make Somalia work, we have got to make the pirates go away.
SESTAK: We have got to do both.
Look, right now, today, and it has been since the Cold War, I used to do it when I was in the Navy, we went around and said, we -- our Constitution says, maintain navies, raise armies. Why? Because we were the ones that kept the high seas safe -- 87 percent of the value of all cargo in existence today that is being moved around the world is on the high seas, 99 percent of the volume.
There's no reason why we should not today have the heft of our Navy clamping this down. Second, I'm a strong proponent of engaging through the international regime about the lawlessness of Somalia.
SANCHEZ: Right.
SESTAK: When it broke apart, that's when you had these fishing clans resort first to stopping the international trawlers that were coming in, taking the tuna that I used to see in the Gulf of Aden jump out of the water.
Then they resorted to piracy. There's not a question. As Admiral Blair, the director of central intelligence said, economic instability is the major threat to the United States.
SANCHEZ: So, by...
SESTAK: But that will take years.
SANCHEZ: Bottom line, it's a two-pronged approach. The first prong needs to be something like what we're seeing, at least have been seeing the last couple of days -- one wonders if it will last -- and maybe a joint venture between the French and the British and the Americans.
SESTAK: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Admiral, Congressman...
SESTAK: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Admiral/Congressman, thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us.
SESTAK: Thank you, Rick, very much.
SANCHEZ: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The election of Obama certainly has played for these groups.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A government warning about the right-wing fringe, police departments being told to prepare for more radicalization, even among returning war veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan. Think about that.
And then there's John Demjanjuk, accused Nazi war crime suspect. His deportation is stopped midstream, in part by his son. You saw this story develop right here on our air yesterday. His son is coming to talk to me here, live, to tell his father's side of the story.
And Ashton Kutcher is serious about taking us on as the -- quote -- "Twitter King." But now the real King seems to be on my side -- breaking news -- well, really not breaking news. But we will bring it to you anyway. Stay with. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: This is Fred Picarol (ph), Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Pirates, pirates, pirates are everywhere on the high seas. There should be a crackdown and rewards given to those leading to information leading to the arrest of those suspected pirates who prey on unarmed votes. (INAUDIBLE) information.
Thank you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This particular show has been in front of this story that I'm about to tell you about.
Back during the Bush administration, my producer Michael Heard and I attended a bomb seminar. It was being attended by federal agents from all over the country. They were gathering in Phoenix, Arizona. We were there. Here is what they told us at the time, which we found somewhat startling, which we reported back then, by the way, on "AC 360," that they feared some of the troops in Iraq would come back from the war with bomb=making skills, which if used for the wrong reasons, could create a dangerous scenario here in the United States, troops coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Well, their fear they shared with us, that these guys could somehow be radicalized by extreme right-wing organizations. So, now look at this. This is a report that was put out last night by Homeland Security. They're warning police departments all over the country that the condition of the economy, combined with the election of a black president, could swell the ranks of right-wing militias.
That's according to Homeland Security. And it goes on to say that disgruntled combat veterans returning from overseas could be easy fodder for recruitment into those militias. That's the concern.
Here now is Jeanne Meserve with the reaction to this story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Political conservatives are fired up.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This is an effort to criminalize political dissent, standard, ordinary, everyday political dissent.
MESERVE: This fury a reaction to an assessment from the Department of Homeland Security saying right-wing extremist groups could exploit fears about the economic downturn, gun control and the election of an African-American president to attract new recruits. It says groups dedicated to a single issue such as opposition to abortion or immigration may fall within the definition of extremists. LIMBAUGH: We are not extremists. They are the extremists.
MESERVE: To make its case, DHS cites a surge in purchases of guns and ammunition and the recent shooting of three Pittsburgh police officers by a man reportedly influenced by racist ideology and fears of gun confiscations. An organization that tracks extremist groups thinks DHS has the picture at least partially right.
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: The election of Obama certainly has played for these groups in the last six, seven, eight months. The economy, I think is much more questionable. We really don't know if that is having an effect.
MESERVE: A Homeland Security officials say DHS is not trying to squelch free speech."There is no link between extremists being talked about in that report and conservative political thinkers, activists and voters." But conservatives aren't buying it.
ROGER HEDGECOCK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: If the Bush administration had done this to left-wing extremists it would be all over the press as an obvious trampling on the First Amendment rights of folks and dissent.
MESERVE: In fact in January there was a warning about left-wing extremists. It was issued by the Obama administration but both reports were begun under President Bush.
(on camera): This new DHS assessment says right-wing extremists may try to radicalize disgruntled veterans to exploit their military knowledge. Some conservatives find that offensive, but DHS points to Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, a veteran of the first Iraq war.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You know, there's a criticism out there that my administration has been spending with reckless abandon, pushing a liberal social agenda, while mortgaging our children's future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's what he says. That's what he recognizes. And these are some of the people who are saying that about the president, with Tea Parties all over the country. One organizer of these Tea Parties is going to join me right here.
Also this story: He's an accused Nazi war crimes suspect, but he's also -- quote -- "a nice old man." What do you do with John Demjanjuk? His son is going to join me live to talk about his father, among other things. Stay with us. Your reaction as well. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
Oftentimes, while you're watching those commercials, I'm trying to read up on what you're telling me on MySpace and Facebook and Twitter. So, Robert, let's have at it. Hello up there.
Jonathan Evans says: "In World War II, my father was in the Navy Armed Guard. They were deployed on merchant ships as gunners to protect the civilian ships. Why don't we reestablish the Naval Armed Guard? Also, companies could start to travel in groups or convoys more to protect each other."
There you go. There's Jonathan Evans.
Let's go right below him. And we're going to go to Paul Brian Bell, who says: "Should I have bought stock in Lipton? D'oh! Another missed opportunity."
Obviously, he's talking about the Tea Parties which are in the news today.
Now, let me bring you this. Anybody who watches the news on this network or any other recognizes that President Obama has been appropriately or inappropriately -- you decide -- that's not for me to say -- hammered by the right, almost from the moment he took office, some would argue.
The question is, does he hear it? Does he hear that people have called him a socialist and people have called him a spendthrift, an incompetent, fill in your own adjective there?
His answer, which he delivered both today and yesterday, yes, he is hearing it. And here's part of his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know there's a criticism out there that my administration has been spending with reckless abandon, pushing a liberal social agenda while mortgaging our children's future. You've heard the argument.
If we don't invest now in renewable energy, if we don't invest now in a skilled work force, if we don't invest now in a more affordable health care system, this economy simply won't grow at the pace it needs to in two or five or 10 years down the road. If we don't lay this new foundation now, it won't be long before we're right back where we are today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. I want to show you something now. Here is who the president is in large measure referring to. Do we have any pictures out there? Because I know these things have been going on all day. All right, let's do this. Let's get some sound on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the government continues spending at the pace that it's spending, it's going to put us into debt and our children and our grandchildren into debt. And we just think that's wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, that's who the president is referring to in that response. That's what we have been trying to show you. We have been monitoring these carefully all day. They're over the country. These are Tea Party audiences.
Is it a grassroots response led by little guys, or is it being led by big-buck Republicans who are angry because their taxes are being raised?
All right, I'm going to ask that question of the guy right here to my right. Did I sneak up on you?
TIM PHILLIPS, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY: You did. You got me.
SANCHEZ: I did.
You're one of the organizers of these things, and it's amazing to watch. They're going on all over the country. I'm going to ask you about the turnout.
PHILLIPS: OK.
SANCHEZ: I'm going to ask you about who's really putting this together. I'm going to ask you why didn't you do this doing the Bush administration. I'm going to give you those tough questions.
PHILLIPS: All right. I'm ready.
SANCHEZ: Hang tight, Tim. We're going to be back in just a little bit.
Stay with us. We will have Tim when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You know the words to the song. There's a party going on right here, a celebration to last throughout the year.
Well, at least it's going to last most of the day, I'm told. We're talking about the Tea Parties all over the country. We want to give you a feel for what happened today at some of these local tax day protests, where Americans who say they're fed up with President Obama's economic plans are getting together and they are protesting.
Where do you begin a Tea Party coverage? Boston, of course. I saw something here that kind of caught my attention, and I'm going to bring that to you in just a minute. But let's go through. Let's go now to Washington, D.C., just across the street from the White House, a hearty group of protesters there.
There, you see them, braving steady rain. That had to be kind of tough, but still we will give you some of the numbers there. A message to the folks in Washington today, from Louisville, Kentucky, as well: Stop the pork spending. There you see the signs. You would think it was something brand-new.
People in hundreds of cities are taking part in this action. Here's Lafayette, Indiana, scores of people gathered on a pedestrian bridge there as well. So, there you see it takes you all over the country. There's a lot more places, by the way. We could go on forever.
This is Tim. And here's why we have Tim on. Tim Phillips is the president of Americans For Prosperity. It's a group that has promoted Tea Parties in numerous cities and states. And he joins us now to take us through this.
How do you feel about the turnout? As I looked at it, I saw that there were a couple of places where the groups was small. But, still, you have to take into account that the spread is amazing.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This is all over the country.
PHILLIPS: There are literally -- the best estimates is between 800 and 1,000 of these things across the country.
And it's a genuine grassroots uprising. Yes, groups like Americans For Prosperity, we're working and helping and organizing. But no one group, Rick, no one organization, no one political party could pull off something like this. It's a genuine grassroots fire out there.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right, let me ask you a question. And we are going to come to that in a minute. But let me ask you a question that a lot of people have been asking on Twitter, on Facebook and MySpace.
PHILLIPS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: And I think it's a legitimate question. Why didn't we see these during the Bush administration, who, by the way, has been accused, by the right and the left, of being a bit of a spendthrift himself?
PHILLIPS: Well, let me tell you, in 2006, I was in these very studios as part of Americans For Prosperity's Ending Earmark Express.
We went to the site of the 50 most outrageous earmarks in the country.
SANCHEZ: But that's earmarks. I'm not talking about earmark.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Go ahead.
PHILLIPS: We went to more Republican districts than Democrat districts. And it's similar, because it's overspending and wasteful spending.
SANCHEZ: But you know what takes -- you know, my old football coach used to call it intestinal fortitude.
PHILLIPS: Right.
SANCHEZ: Intestinal fortitude is another way of saying guts or something else.
PHILLIPS: Right.
SANCHEZ: But it's when you do what no one expects you to do. Like Ron Paul, when he stood up in front of a Republican debate...
PHILLIPS: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... and was booed for saying this administration, referring to Bush, has been irresponsible and has spent too much, that's surprising. That's news.
Those are the guys you have got to give credence to. Republicans now blaming Obama for spending too much, it almost looks like, gee, there is a surprise. You guys were going to do this no matter what he did.
PHILLIPS: I think you're missing an important point.
SANCHEZ: All right. Tell me where I'm wrong.
PHILLIPS: Today is not a Republican thing. Today is not a Republican thing.
The Republican Party frankly is too disorganized and too unsure of itself to pull off stuff like this.
SANCHEZ: Really?
PHILLIPS: This is a grassroots uprising that is telling elected officials in both parties, hey, guys, there is too much debt. We're going to pile up more debt this year from 1776 to 1980 in adjusted dollars.
That's unsustainable. Today is a movement, a freedom movement, a conservative freedom movement. It's not a party movement. That's an important part.
SANCHEZ: And I think that's fair. And I think a lot of people would agree with you, looking at it from a fiscal stand standpoint.
PHILLIPS: Right. SANCHEZ: But then there's also this. We were doing a report earlier today. One of our correspondents was on the air reporting. And I noticed something behind her. And I said, oh my goodness, look at that. And I bet you it's not something Tim's going to be pleased by.
Look at that, what it says. Go ahead and turn around. Look at the screen right there.
Do we see that guy that says, "I'm not your ATM"?
PHILLIPS: Right.
SANCHEZ: It's a white hand giving money to a black hand. You know, what do you make of that? Does that bother you a little bit?
PHILLIPS: I think that any time you have literally tens of thousands of people from all walks of life coming out to rallies and events, there's going to be one sign that's objectionable or one statement that you would rather not be said.
I don't think in any way...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You don't say -- it's not representative?
PHILLIPS: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: In any way does it discount, you know, the good American protest that's going out there today.
SANCHEZ: And I think you make an important point.
I want to show you something else now. This is something that's gone viral. I'm sure you have already seen it.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I have seen it for days now. And I didn't even want to put it on the air, so we haven't put this on the air.
PHILLIPS: Right.
PHILLIPS: We're going to put it on the air when you're here, so you can look at it and say, as someone who is a part of this organization, here's what I think.
Roll that if you can, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This thing they're putting it on our TV, it's a brainwash unit. Seventeen million people are going to be brainwashed with this thing when you hook up your TV in June. Why do you think Obama waited until June? He wanted to wait until June to put this thing in here. I tell you another thing. If you have got kids in school, if you got them in college, get them the hell out of college. They're brainwashing them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burn the books.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're brainwashing the kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, I want to be fair. We're not saying that that's representative of the people who are involved in the Tea Parties. But that happens to be a piece of video that's gone viral. People have been looking at it all over the Internet.
Do you worry that that kind of thinking, a guy like that talking about Obama having things in people's brains and that we got to burn all the books, that guys like that, the fringe element, could end up co-opting what is a legitimate movement?
PHILLIPS: Here's what I would challenge every media organization to do: Go to the rally in Atlanta today or any of the rallies that have happened across the country and grab the first 12 people you see. And say, why are you here and tell me what about your background. You're going to find the most broadly represented mainstream Americans who are concerned about the future with all this spending, all this debt, all these new taxes.
I would challenge organizations to do that. Whenever you've got tens of thousands, really, over 100,000, coming to somewhere between 800 and 1,000 events across the country...
SANCHEZ: But you're saying it's by far the exception and by no means the norm.
PHILLIPS: Right and the best way though to prove that is go to the events and by the way, you've been showing people at the rallies who are normal average folks and I'm not dinging you.
But that's the best way to do it. The events I've been to across the country leading up to today and then today, these are the most mainstream, broadly defined Americans who are genuinely concerned.
SANCHEZ: You know what we'll do, we'll keep checking on it.
PHILLIPS: Good.
SANCHEZ: What did you say, you're dinging me?
PHILLIPS: No, I'm not dinging you, because you are showing some of the real folks out there talking. SANCHEZ: We want to be as fair as we can with this story and we'll continue to do so. Tim, thanks for coming in. We appreciate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: How are we going to stay in our future?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: We are only two, no one taking care of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Isn't that amazing, more than 30,000 children stolen by a man claiming to have mystical powers and who mutilates those kids who resist? Sounds like a nightmare, doesn't it? This is real, folks. And we're going to show you a powerful documentary that you really should see.
And the son of a man who was found not guilty of being a Nazi death camp torturer stops his father's deportation. We're talking about John Demjanjuk Jr. He's going to join me here live. Stay with us.
CALLER: Hey, Rick, it's Jason from Minneapolis. Are these tea parties for real? I don't think so. Where were they for the last five years when all this big spending was happening?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. I want to show you something. See that stepladder right there? You're about to see one of its many uses. Bang! Busting bad guys upside the head.
Follow along here, small town outside Atlanta. A man tries to rob a convenience store, does so with a knife, but a customer ruins his day with a stepladder. And you'll see it again and I'll get to say boom again. Cracks him on the head with the ladder, runs him out of the store. The guy got away, but police have his vehicle information and his picture. They think the robber might be hurt. You think?
And there's this story that we've been following since yesterday. This appears to be -- appears to be -- one of the saddest acts imaginable, until you take into account what the man was accused of, in fact, is still accused of by many, of having a direct hand in the killing of tens of thousands of Jews.
Now, you saw this story play out on our air as it happened yesterday. So, I want to take you through part of it again in case you didn't. This is the scene that was brought to you live as it happened here on CNN. Federal agents remove an elderly man from his home in Cleveland, Ohio. He looks like he doesn't really have much life left. I mean, look at his expression as they're taking him away.
Their plan was to put him on a plane and then fly him to Germany where he would stand trial for war crimes that he may have committed more than 50 years ago. His wife and his family were there in the driveway. They're sobbing as well.
Of course, there's more to this story. That elderly man that we just showed you? That's John Demjanjuk. And here's why it's important. He was -- he was taken out of the United States and sent to Israel, where he was tried for being "Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka." But unfortunately for those there, he was found not guilty. He beat the rap, fairly and squarely, we should add.
But now he's being tried again. This time for being the same type of person, in charge of a death camp in Sobibor. So the Germans are now taking him and yesterday they tried to extradite him, but that extradition was stayed. It was stopped.
And joining me now from Cleveland, John Demjanjuk Jr. who is good enough to talk to us about this most sensitive situation.
Thank you, John, first of all, for taking time to talk about this.
JOHN DEMJANJUK JR., SON OF NAZI WAR CRIMES SUSPECT: Thank you for having me.
SANCHEZ: I can only imagine how difficult it's got to be for you. By the way, where is your dad right now?
DEMJANJUK: He's home.
SANCHEZ: Is he? We're led to believe that the appeals process is going to unfold pretty quickly here. Is his court hearing scheduled anytime soon?
DEMJANJUK: Well, we don't exactly know how long this process is going to take. What we do know is that this particular Sixth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals is very familiar with the Demjanjuk case. This is the same court that found that our Justice Department committed fraud on the court when they extradited my father to the state of Israel.
SANCHEZ: So, you're thinking that....
DEMJANJUK: There's a lot of misconceptions about what actually took place in Israel, including in your opening statement.
SANCHEZ: All right, we'll go through those in just a minute, but let me just take care of some of the other details here.
We watched your father a little while ago. What are his ailments?
DEMJANJUK: He has some very significant medical conditions, one of them being chronic kidney disease. Another one being a pre- leukemia born marrow disorder, called myelodysplastic syndrome. He has severe arthritis in his hips, spinal stenosis in his spine that causes a considerable amount of pain.
Bottom line, he has low blood counts, lack of oxygen. And we now find that both our U.S. government has a medical report that they have to date not turned over to the defense or the courts and the Germans we now hear within the last 24 hours, after having all of the lab reports that we sent them, have an internal opinion saying that he would unfit for trial.
SANCHEZ: Is he conscious? Is he conscious? I mean, can you talk to him? Does he understand you and does he respond?
DEMJANJUK: He does. But my father at this point in his life at 89 and the ailments that he has, has difficulty caring for himself compared to caring about the legal things that are going on in the United States and in Germany, so he doesn't really follow the things minute by minute as we do.
SANCHEZ: John, since we have you on, defending your father's honor, as any son would, we do have to have a statement on as well from those who do not believe that your father is innocent. Let me bring you the statement.
This is from Rabbi Marvin Hier, he's the founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. This is the group founded to fight anti-Semitism and let me read this to you. I think I have it here. It says, "We remain confident that John Demjanjuk will be deported and finally face the bar of justice for the unspeakable crimes that he committed during World War II when he was a guard at the Sobibor death camp.
DEMJANJUK: This is exactly the same Marvin Hier who called for my father to hang until dead in the state of Israel for the crimes of someone else. So, I think you have to take into account the credibility of people's past statements.
At the end of the day, what people have to understand is this case has been going on for 32 years. And many people in the Cleveland area know that. People in the state of Israel even know that. But people outside of those circles perhaps don't. For 32 years our government has been spending taxpayer dollars on trying to rid them of my father and for 32 years, he's remained in the United States at home in Seven Hills apart from the seven years and six years that he spent in a death cell in the state of Israel.
SANCHEZ: But, that doesn't...
DEMJANJUK: Just a minute. You said I could get back to this.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead.
DEMJANJUK: Israel indicted him for being in Trawniki, Sobibar and Treblinka and he was acquitted. There were numerous friends of the court briefs. There was a lot of pressure put on the state of Israel attorney general and the supreme court...
SANCHEZ: So you're saying this is double jeopardy.
DEMJANJUK: ... for trying him for the same crimes that Germany is alleging today, and they would not do it. Israel would not do it and now Germany wants to do it? It makes no sense. Germany nearly killed my father. He was a Soviet soldier. He wasn't a German.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question. The BBC is now saying, let me make sure I get this right. They are saying they have a list of people, a list of people that they have, a document that shows the people that he actually led to their deaths in Sobibor. The accusation...
DEMJANJUK: The accusations from Germany today are that he was an accessory. The German prosecutor to this moment has not said that they have any evidence or will even allege that he personally hurt one person, let alone 29,000. They're basically saying he was at the place where people were killed.
We've gone from being the murderer of 850,000 at Treblinka to being at a place where people were killed with no evidence that he hurt even one person let alone 29,000. So, you know, there's a lot of misinformation out there and that's why I came on here, just to set some of the facts straight.
SANCHEZ: We thank you for being here and we'll certainly stay in touch with you. And I'm sure you understand that this is an issue that's highly sensitive for many Jewish-Americans who look at this case and still are convinced that your father has not, at least in their eyes, proven his innocence.
DEMJANJUK: You know, they should look to our Justice Department and ask them to have found a better person to make these accusations against because, if my dad was guilty of anything, Israel would have never let him go and he wouldn't be sitting at home in Seven Hills today.
SANCHEZ: All right, John Demjanjuk Jr., we thank you sir for taking the time to talk to us about this. A story that we will no doubt continue to follow for years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These kids were escaping from being abducted, abducted and turned into child soldiers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Over 30,000 children stolen by one man, one man. Imagine that. It's real. It is a powerful documentary that you will have to see and the people behind it, that are making a difference in this case.
Also, Ashton Kutcher challenging CNN to a Twitter race. Twitter. Funny the way I said that. Some are saying, go ahead, bring it! We do own the Twitter throne, you know? I'll explain how, where, when. We'll be back.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: How are we going to stay in our future?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: We are only two, no one taking care of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Little boy finally breaking down. He was taken from his parents in the dark of night. They couldn't stop it from happening. His parents couldn't stop it. If the little boy complains, they cut off part of his mouth and they have.
Here's the tough part of this story. You've heard how we had to take out Saddam Hussein because he was a real bad guy, right? Well, how about a guy who did that? What I just described to some 30,000 -- 30,000 -- children? And all I'm asking you to do is watch the story. When we come back.
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SANCHEZ: Imagine one man -- one man -- stealing more than 30,000 children from their parents. Just think about that for a minute. The despot who's doing this needs them to form an army. So he just takes them and nobody can stand in his way. People fear him because they believe he has spiritual powers and those who do resist are killed. Oh, and if the children resist or talk bad about him, they are mutilated.
This sounds like a nightmare, right or a story from Brothers Grimm. I wish I could say that's what it is. It's not. This documentary that you're about to see is called "The Rescue of Joseph Kony's Child Soldiers." It's important that you watch this.
Here's a clip of what a couple California guys discovered on their trip to Uganda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving her home at dusk, we were driving back, but nothing prepared us for what happened next.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We cannot afford to stay even an inch where the rebels are. They're so dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this common for them to shoot up, shoot some place up, some village?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it's very common.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here's the town that's now impacted because everyone fled the village. We rushed into the town to escape the rebels Joli (ph) was talking about. Where we saw thousands and thousands of children flooding into the city. All of them were seeking safety in abandoned buildings. These kids were escaping from being abducted, abducted and turned into child soldiers. The sight was shocking and life changing.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I was abducted when I was only 12 years old. They told me that you are now a soldier. Do not try to escape. If you try to escape then we will get you again then we are going to kill you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jacob was abducted when he was 11 years old, forced to see and do horrific things. He explained that the rebels, led by a man named Joseph Kony kidnapped children while they sleep and forced them into a life of violence.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: My brother tried to escape. They killed him using panga.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does panga mean?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Machetes. They cut his neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see it?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I saw it. I tried to cry, but they say that when I cry, they are going to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kony considers himself a god. Even me, as a person that was skeptical, about is this somebody who's ready to relinquish control and power and influence that he has? Is this possible? I personally signed letters, 25,000. If you come out, I'll receive you. I will resettle you. And LRA started defecting in large numbers. That was a huge turning point. Then LRA reacted by doing this. They started mutilating, cutting off, because people were defecting in large numbers, pleaded, pleaded with him. The magnitude of killing we are going to do is going to shock the whole world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world knows that they're just a rebel army but in truth they're children. So that's why I'm going in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What an amazing story. I watched it with my kids at home on the Internet. The documentary is called "The Rescue of Joseph Kony's Child Soldiers."
This is one of the California guys who's behind this, just an average American kid who normally wouldn't have a care in the world until he saw what was happening in Uganda. Bobby Bailey joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Bobby Bailey joins me now. What's interesting about your story is that maybe more Americans should know more about the rest of the world, should visit parts of the world. You sound like a guy who grew up without a care in the world. You go to Uganda, you see this thing and now you put together this documentary that everyone should watch, congratulations, first of all.
BOBBY BAILEY, CO-FOUNDER, INVISIBLE CHILDREN, INC: Thanks for having me on, Rick, I appreciate it.
SANCHEZ: What is going on with this guy now? Is this still there in Uganda?
BAILEY: He's actually in larger east Africa, Congo, central African Republic. The intelligence hasn't nailed him down to where he's at or else we could go get him. But basically, he's just moved now in four countries.
SANCHEZ: How do you do this? How do you take some 30,000 kids away from their parents and nobody -- I'm thinking as an American, if somebody tried to do that to my kid, over my dead body.
BAILEY: Exactly. I mean that's the thing and we look at Africa sometimes and we're like that's just Africa. But if we put in the context that these are human beings with families, with loved ones and especially children that are affected the most, I think we would do something and that's why we put this movie out. And we got it together in a few weeks and it's just been out there for a couple months, but thank you for watching it. But we want people to go out and see the movie and then be that change. Because we're hoping that this story has a happy ending.
SANCHEZ: It almost seems like we only want what our government wants us to know. We're told by our government that Saddam Hussein was a bad guy and Saddam Hussein was a bad guy, but he wasn't the only bad guy. Why doesn't anybody know about -- I forgot his name -- Joseph Kony?
BAILEY: That's what you're doing. You're putting it out there for people to know about it. I'm just a kid that does grass roots, gets it out there. But that's why these kinds of shows are so important that the larger public can hear and understand and know that their voice will be heard by our government if we come out. So we're doing this event on April 25 called "The Rescue." It's in 100 cities across the world, guaranteed a city that someone is watching the show right now, they can go and participate in this event and if we raise the profile high enough, this guy can be captured and these kids can be rescued.
SANCHEZ: Happy to help, but when a guy is out there killing 30,000 kids, the least we can do here at CNN is at least expose the message that you're getting out there. How do they reach you? Give it to us quick.
BAILEY: Well, invisiblechildren.com, go there, watch the film, e-mail me if they want, bobby@invisiblechildren.com. I just want people to get involved and see the story, but thank you Rick for having us on.
SANCHEZ: Bobby Bailey, you're a good guy man. You're a good American, all right.
BAILEY: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer standing by now to bring us up to date on what's going on in our next hour of "THE SITUATION ROOM" - Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: We're going to be following up on a lot of the developing stories today including the new rules, what's going on in the U.S. effort to tighten up piracy control off the coast of Africa.
And I know we have a story that you're going to be interested in, Rick. We're speaking with Jerry Sive (ph) of the "Wall Street Journal." He's passionately involved in trying to free an American Iranian journalist who's been accused by the Iranians of espionage. We're going to have the latest on that front as well.
Lots coming up, right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
SANCHEZ: That sounds wonderful, Wolf. Thanks so much.
Ashton Kutcher, bring it on, the challenge is on and oh, Larry King is on my side now. He's got a few choice words himself, the King does, the kingster for Ashston. That's right. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Hey, Kutcher, I got your message, it's Larry King. Do I have to tell you who I am?
Anyway, are you putting me on?
Are you kidding?
Do you think you can take on an entire network? Do you know how big we are? Do you know what CNN is?
Kutcher, you're playing out of your field. You're in another time zone. This ain't going to work.
CNN is going to bury you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Larry King doing the Twitter thing, helping us answer Ashton Kutcher. That's crazy, isn't it? But it's on and you can check it out whenever you want at my website, ours or his. That's Wolf Blitzer, who soon will be a Twitter king himself in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
BLITZER: Rick, thank you, happening now, piracy revenge on Americans just days after a dramatic hostage crisis on the high seas. This hour, the latest attack and a new U.S. vow to fight pirates tooth and nail.
The president vows to take the dread out of tax day on this April 15th.
