Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

President Obama's trip to Latin America; Threat of Foreclosure Grows; Your Job, Your Rights; President Obama on Mexico Drug War: We Must Help Our Friends and Neighbors; The Killer Recruits of Juarez; Nation's Second Largest Mall Operator Files for Bankruptcy

Aired April 16, 2009 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, more than anything, Mr. Obama is on a fence-mending mission, and I don't mean the fence that's caused so many hard feelings on both sides of the border. Correspondent Juan Carlos Lopez joins me now from our sister network, CNN en Espanol. He's in Mexico City, just hours after scoring an exclusive interview with President Obama in Washington.

Juan Carlos, give us your perspective on whether and how the Obama administration will change things in Mexico, if it can.

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they can, Kyra, and I think the first sign is that President Obama and members of his Cabinet have been saying things that Mexicans expected to hear from the U.S. government and that many people in Latin America expected, like acknowledging the U.S. responsibility in the war on drugs and the effect that the high consumption of drugs in the U.S. has in the war that Mexico fights on drugs.

President Obama said in the interview that he wants to deal with other leaders as peers. He doesn't want to go and tell people what to do, countries what to do, so that is something that is welcome. And it also changes the dynamic of the relationship between many leaders, like Venezuela's president, Hugo Chavez, and the United States.

And this is what President Obama said how he would interact not only with Mr. Chavez, but with other presidents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOPEZ: A lot of people are focused on how you will interact with other leaders. For example, how you will face Hugo Chavez.

Have you thought about that? Is it going to be any different than any other president?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. Look, he's the leader of his country, and we'll -- he'll be one of many people that I have an opportunity to meet. And the whole message that we've tried to send throughout my campaign, throughout my recent travels overseas, at the G-20, for example, has been that the United States, I think, has a leadership role to play in dealing with many of the big problems that we face, but we also recognize that other countries have important contributions and insights. We want to listen and learn, as well as talk. And that approach, I think, of mutual respect and finding common interests, is one that ultimately will serve everybody.

LOPEZ: Fidel Castro reacted to your lifting of sanctions, saying it was a positive move, but they expected lifting of the embargo. And he said that Cuba won't beg, but that's eventually what they expect from the U.S.

OBAMA: Well, I don't expect Cuba to beg. Nobody's asking for anybody to beg.

What we're looking for is some signal that there are going to be changes in how Cuba operates that assures that, you know, political prisoners are released, that people can speak their minds freely, that they can travel, that they can write and attend church and do the things that people throughout the hemisphere can do and take for granted. And if there's some sense of movement on those fronts in Cuba, then I think that we can see a further thawing of relations and further changes.

But we took an important first step. I think it's a signal of our good faith that we want to move beyond the Cold War mentality that has existed over the last 50 years. And hopefully we'll see some signs that Cuba wants to reciprocate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Now, Juan Carlos, you've covered the Bush presidency. Now you're coverage the Obama presidency. You had this exclusive interview.

What do you see as the biggest difference between the two administrations when it comes to dealing with Mexico?

LOPEZ: Well, with President Bush, we have the benefit of hindsight, and I guess the biggest difference is that when President Bush took office, he was a former border governor, he was the governor of Texas, he knew the issues. He was familiar. There was a lot of hope that the relationship would be very fluid. But 9/11 came along and things changed. And after that many felt that Latin America fell by the wayside.

President Obama is taking a similar approach, as in the beginning of the Bush administration. He's approaching Latin America. He's saying things that Latin Americans want to hear, so the perspectives are good.

Let's see how things keep on developing. At least the summit is going to be very interesting to see.

PHILLIPS: It will be interesting to see for all of us.

Juan Carlos Lopez, congratulations. Great job with CNN en Espanol. We have lots of other news to get to, but we're going to have more on the U.S. and Mexican drug war later this hour. CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us live with the story of the drug lords' legmen. They're barely men at all.

Signs of life in the struggling banking industry. JPMorgan Chase is the latest bank to beat analysts' predictions, logging a profit of more than $2 billion in the first three months of the year. Part of the reason? A jump in mortgage refinancing because of rock-bottom mortgage rates. The bank is still facing rising loan losses, and its latest profit is still down 10 percent from a year ago.

Earlier, profit reports from Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs also topped Wall Street estimates.

If you have a Bank of America checking account and a few bad checks to name, well, listen up. The bank is raising the number of times that you can be hit with that overdraft fee. Right now, it charges 35 bucks a check, up to a maximum of five checks a day. But starting in June, the bank is raising that cap to 10 checks a day.

So, do the math. If you write that many bad checks in one day, it will cost you an extra 350 bucks. Bank of America was considering raising its overdraft fee to $39, but now it's backing off.

New job numbers out today. There's good news and bad news. The government says that the number of Americans filing first-time claims for jobless benefits dropped to 610,000 last week, down from 663,000 the week before.

Now the bad news. The number of people continuing to get jobless benefits has now topped six million. That's another record in an ongoing string of records.

So, have you been laid off? Afraid that you're going to be? You probably have plenty of questions about legal rights, and you're sending them to us. Our Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin answers some guidelines about workers' rights.

New York Governor David Paterson wants state lawmakers to step up and announce their position on same-sex marriage. He just introduced a same-sex marriage bill, the same bill that passed in the assembly in 2007, then died in the Republican-controlled Senate.

It will need 32 Senate votes this time around. And while Democrats do have a 32-30 edge, some have expressed reservations. Governor Paterson says that he understands, but that same-sex marriage is truly a human rights issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. DAVID PATERSON (D), NEW YORK: We have all known the wrath of discrimination. We have all felt the pain and the insult of hatred. This is why we are all standing here today.

We stand to tell the world that we want equality for everyone. We stand to tell the world that we want marriage equality in New York State.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Governor Paterson's hoping New York will be the fifth state where gays and lesbians can marry.

Just last week, lawmakers in neighboring Vermont legalized same- sex marriage. It's the only state where legislators, not the courts, has done so.

Four days before that, Iowa's Supreme Court made same-sex weddings legal. Connecticut's Supreme Court did the same last fall. Massachusetts was the first. The costs ruling came down in November of 2003. And then California, of course, remains in legal limbo after the Prop 8 vote.

Homes across America threatened. Not by floods or fire, but foreclosure. We've got some new numbers, and they're downright frightening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, you think the job market's in bad shape? Check out the housing market.

Foreclosure filings have surged this year to the highest levels on record, and those numbers could get even worse as banks lift a temporary hold on foreclosures.

Where you can turn for help? Let's go ahead and go to our Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis, of course -- Gerri.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Hi. Yes, Kyra, this is tough stuff for people out there facing foreclosure. And sometimes you just have to test yourself.

You know, if you're paying more than 33 percent of your income from housing, guess what? That's too much. If you're paying above 40 to 50 percent, it's not sustainable.

Look, your first move here, call the lender. They're the ones who are in the position ultimately to help you out.

And this week it was announced that the government's loan modification program is finally under way. The program was billed to help as many as nine million borrowers stay in their homes, and about six participants have signed up, some of the biggest lenders in the country: JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Wells Fargo.

Here are the basics of the mortgage rescue plan.

First off, there's a modification plan to reduce monthly payments and interest rates to no more than 31 percent of income; allow current borrowers to refinance with little equity; and give incentives to borrowers to keep up with payments, up to $1,000 a year for five years. So there is help out there -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: All right. Well, let's talk about what if you're having trouble getting through to your lender? What do you do?

WILLIS: Well, OK. You do get on the phone to your lender, first off. Here's some other places to go if you really can't get them to respond to you.

A, number one, call the Department of Housing and Urban Development: 800-569-4287. They also have a Web site, HUD.gov. They can give you a counselor in your area to talk to, will help you one- on-one. Homeownership Preservation is 888-995-HOPE or 995HOPE.org.

There are places to go and get a credit counselor, and an accredited one, to help you with your problems, your financial issues. You don't have to just struggle by yourself. That's the good news -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: That is good news.

Gerri Willis, appreciate it.

WILLIS: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: Well, shopping malls across America are feeling the pinch of the recession. Now hundreds of them are part of a big bankruptcy filing. Will your mall close its doors?

We're going to find out from our Susan Lisovicz, live from Wall Street.

And you might have lost your job, but that doesn't mean you've lost your rights. So what legal recourses do you have when you're laid off? You've been asking us, and we're about to answer.

Let's bring in our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, let's go ahead and start with this question, if you don't mind, from a teacher in Ohio who writes, "I work in higher education on a terminal but renewable contract. Recently, I was one of five instructors not reviewed. I'm 50 years old and have had excellent reviews. No negative reasons were given. Do I have a case?"

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: OK. Kyra, let me just make two general observations before we get to the specifics.

One is, these cases are very hard to win for plaintiffs, for employees. The law is not very favorably-oriented towards plaintiffs, so the by-and-large answer is probably not.

The second point is, they are very dependent on the facts of the individual situation. So, it's very hard to answer these questions without knowing a lot of the facts.

Now, to get to this specific question, I think the odds against a successful lawsuit here are remote because of the line in the letter that says a "renewable contract." That means it's at the discretion of the employer. I think that's what it means, given the way the letter is written.

If there is a renewable contract, they can choose any number of reasons not to renew the contract. If it's the middle of a contract, maybe the plaintiff, the employee, has a better chance. But a renewable contract at the option of the employer, it's very hard to win a case like that.

PHILLIPS: You've got to be really careful when you're signing contracts, because there's a lot of things you don't understand, a lot of hidden language. And so would your advice be, especially during hard economic times right now, if you do get a contract, definitely have a lawyer look over it?

TOOBIN: You should, but in hard economic times, the employee's leverage is very limited.

PHILLIPS: That's true. Probably no contracts, right?

TOOBIN: Well, that's right. It's like, let's say you go to a lawyer and the lawyer says, well, these three provisions are really not good for you, you should get them changed. You take them back to your would-be employer and they say, hey, that's the contract. Take it or leave it. We've got a line of people who want this job for the contract we're offering.

So, again, yes, it's true that you theoretically have some rights, but the system makes it very hard to use those rights.

PHILLIPS: Got it. This viewer writes in, "Is there a statute of limitations on filing an age discrimination complaint? If so, how long? And, with no resources how do I proceed? I contacted legal aid and was advised that they do not handle such cases."

TOOBIN: Well, again, this answer could be pretty complicated. Usually, you have to look at two sources of law whenever you have any sort of employment discrimination. You have federal law, and for that, I suggest that the person go to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission Web site, EEOC.gov, which will give you some general guidelines.

But even if you're out of luck on the federal level, some states have laws that are more protective of employees' rights. So it may be possible there. So, you have to sort of Google around for your state equivalent and see if there's any prospect there.

PHILLIPS: And finally, Jeffrey, Andrew asks, "I was laid off three years ago. I have since heard from my boss that I was let go because I have a 15-month-old child at home and there were fears I could not handle the travel. The person who replaced me has no experience in sales but no children. Could this be discrimination?"

TOOBIN: It could be, but you'd certainly have to know a lot more about the circumstances. In tough economic times, employers have lots more leeway to get rid of people, because if they want to cut costs, they simply have a lot more options. And this circumstance, you'd have to know if that was really the only reason. Chances are an employer would have others, but certainly it's worth looking into.

PHILLIPS: So, it's interesting. Just to wrap this up, you know, what triggered this conversation, we interviewed a 52-year-old male who is suing for discrimination, race and age. He met with a lawyer that's taking on a lot of these cases. As a matter of fact, the numbers are up on these types of cases. But what I'm hearing from you, this is a really tough case to win considering the economic times that we're in.

Am I right?

TOOBIN: These cases are always tough.

PHILLIPS: OK. No matter what.

TOOBIN: No matter what. But tough economic times make it even harder to win these cases, because employers can always use the reason, and it's a legitimate reason, that we're just cutting back.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

TOOBIN: It had nothing to do with age or race, and that's often a very hard argument to overcome.

PHILLIPS: Got it.

Jeffrey Toobin, appreciate your time.

TOOBIN: See you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, there's another place that you can get those questions answered, and you heard Jeffrey mention it -- www.EEOC.gov. It's the home site of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and you can learn more about what constitutes discrimination in the workplace and how you can actually file a charge.

Well, a small businessman in upstate New York hopes to be hiring soon. His green cheese could cut the community's jobless rate, hovering near 10 percent.

Here's CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow. Her report is part of our new series "Money & Main Street."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Cuba County, New York, an entrepreneur with an affinity for cheese could be just the stimulus that its struggling towns need.

LARRY ROSENBAUM, SARATOGA CHEESE CORP.: This is the beginning of a trend of bringing back manufacturing industry to New York State.

HARLOW: For 10 years, Larry Rosenbaum has been dreaming of a cheese factory, churning out kosher and halal feta and brie to the tune of 30 million pounds a year.

(on camera): What is the demand? And is it just in the U.S., or is it around the world?

ROSENBAUM: Well, actually, in the United States, the kosher cheese market is -- the type of cheese that's being made is not a high quality cheese.

HARLOW (voice-over): Drawing from local farms and using green technology, Saratoga Cheese Corp. hopes not only to make cheese, but also help surrounding industries.

DALE HEMMINGER, HERNDALE FARMS: It's a real important thing that we're getting another market for our product.

HARLOW: Dairy farmer Dale Hemminger was skeptical of Larry's plan at first.

HEMMINGER: I was a little concerned. I really admire the research they've done.

HARLOW (on camera): As soon as 2010, this barren cornfield on the outskirts of town could be home to a $40 million 64,000 square foot cheese factory. And with the cheese will come the jobs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are 75 people that will be employed at the factory.

HARLOW (voice-over): But Larry's dream is still $10 million short. He says he's raised $30 million, but can't break ground until he reaches $40 million.

As for the final slice of funding, Larry says both a dairy company and a private equity firm have expressed interest.

ROSENBAUM: We're not going to quit until we make it.

HARLOW: With 75 jobs at the factory, 150 construction jobs, and an estimated $140 million in local revenue waiting in the balance, a lot is riding on Larry's shoulders.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: It sure is. Larry, his friends, his family, Kyra, they've all invested $1 million over the past 10 years, trying to make this dream a reality. We're going to stay in touch with Larry. I just talked to him on the phone today. He's working on the project right now.

More "Money & Main Street" on CNNMoney.com. Tonight, also, on Roland Martin, right here on CNN at 8:00 p.m., and every Thursday morning on "AMERICAN MORNING" - Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, I know there's another twist to the story when it comes to communities coming together, right? What is it? HARLOW: Yes. There is. It's very interesting.

The Jewish and the Muslim communities coming together. When we were on this, a rabbi and an imam came up and were there with us the entire day. Apparently, there are going to be 50 rabbinical students on these farms, supervising production. And rabbis and imams, Kyra, at the factory just to supervise all the production to make sure it's the highest level of kosher and halal.

Pretty interesting.

PHILLIPS: All right, Poppy. Thanks.

And as Poppy mentioned, you can see more "Money & Main Street" with Roland Martin tonight, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, and a new "Money & Main Street" every Thursday morning on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: OK. I wasn't supposed to touch the board. We're talking about singing the praises of dirt-covered uniforms, grass stains, and a little bit of blood now that John Madden is retiring.

The coaching legend, now broadcast legend, is leaving the broadcast booth after 30 years of gritty insight. He's 73 years old, wants to spend more time with his grandkids.

He's got 16 Emmys, a Super Bowl ring, a winning percentage that's still the highest of any NFL coach, and his "Madden NFL Football" is actually the most popular sports video game of all time.

Speaking of fun video, I was just learning how to use Chad's new board.

This is sort of exciting. I feel like John King.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, see, but if you open this one and then you do that, and then you've got this, and then you can be John. Boom! There we go. It's right off the field.

PHILLIPS: And then the "Hail Mary "to the end zone. Boom! Victory!

MYERS: Boy, I will so miss John Madden. I tell you what, he will always be a legend, but April 10th, he turned 73 and he finally said, that's enough. I just want to be with, you know, my grandkids. And I can't blame him.

PHILLIPS: Yes, good for him. He's had a great career, you know. He's got plenty in the bank. He's got Emmys. What the heck.

And still, I wonder if the video game, if he's going to keep doing that and selling that. I would imagine so.

MYERS: You know what the new video game is going to be? This is my... PHILLIPS: What's your prediction?

MYERS: "John Madden's Bus." Where can I go on the bus? Because, remember, he's afraid to fly, right?

PHILLIPS: Right. He never likes to fly.

MYERS: He was always afraid to fly. So, he always took his bus or the train. And so maybe they'll do something on that.

PHILLIPS: All right. Give us a little weather. We digress.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, your favorite shopping mall may be part of a major bankruptcy filing. So, will your favorite shops still be there when all those malls close their doors?

Well, we've got plenty of questions to put to our Susan Lisovicz. She's on the assignment. We'll go live to Wall Street.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, we expect to get word any second now that President Obama has landed in Mexico City. His visit is short on time but long on issues, and the drug war is only one of them. It will come up in talks this afternoon with Mexican President Calderon, and it came up yesterday in Mr. Obama's one-in-one interview with our sister network, CNN en Espanol.

Here's a little bit of what the president told our correspondent Juan Carlos Lopez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I want to put as much additional resources as we can into this effort. I think Mexico's been very serious about dealing with the problem.

There are a number of Central American countries who are going to need our assistance as well. And my commitment is to make sure that the United States, working in a multilateral fashion, with all the countries in the region, are finally putting an end to the power and strength of these drug cartels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, you've got to think that the presidents of U.S. and Mexico will talk about Juarez, right across the border from El Paso, Texas, drug traffickers have turned Juarez in Mexico's most dangerous city. They've also turned its mean streets into a recruiting battleground for killers.

CNN's Karl Penhaul reports from Juarez. And a warning, this story isn't pretty. Some of the pictures are pretty graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The police radio crackles. Shots are being fired downtown. A city cop asks these transvestite prostitutes if they heard. Six shots, they say, a few blocks away.

It's midnight in Juarez, Mexico's most dangerous city. The gunmen seem to have faded away, so the patrol heads up into gangland, the hillside slums that ring Juarez.

"We're arresting gang members before they get together, because then there will be killings," he says.

Police say there are 1,000 gangs in the city. They go by names like the Skulls, the Sharks, the Aztecs and the Artist Assassins. They peddle cocaine, crack and heroin, and fight gun battles for turf.

The gangs, too, have become a recruiting ground for narco- traffickers, looking to hire hit men. "Organized crime reports from these gangs. They come and choose the most dangerous members," the captain says.

Captain Pinedo and his men on the anti-gang patrol know the labyrinth of alleyways by heart. They pull suspected gang members out of vehicles, even sniffing their fingers to see if they've been using drugs.

"A lot of them don't have any I.D., and they looks like gang bangers," he says.

For the last year Juarez's best-selling newspaper has been filled with gory photos of drug war hits. As the Sinaloa cartel battles for the Juarez mob's trafficking routes. Bodies hanging from a bridge, other victims stuffed into cooking pots, another murdered and his face covered with a pig mask.

Police say many of the victims have been young gang members recruited as cartel foot soldiers.

We head back into our Juarez neighborhood, this time without the police, to try and discover why young men have been lured by the drug mobs.

This small gang calls itself Below 13. None of its members seem to know why. The few who say they work, earn less than $50 a week in assembly plants. The cartel war now raging, it offers a chance of quick money.

"Some of the gang members here have joined organized crime groups and some are in prison because they were busted for selling drugs," this young man tells me. He knows working for the cartels can mean a short life expectancy.

"Of course it's easy money, because you can earn serious cash, but it's dangerous, too. Like they say, it's easy money until they kill you," he says. Sixteen hundred people died in drug cartel killings last year in Juarez, but in this neighborhood, there's little sense the war will end.

"Thank God we're alive. We're going to show all the hit men that Juarez is number one," he boasts.

Fighting talk that bodes of more untimely deaths.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Juarez, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And live pictures now, as you can see from Mexico City, the president of the United States, making his first trip south of the border as president, landing there in Mexico. Air Force One, as you can see. It's a one-day stop en route to the Summit of Americas in Trinidad and Tobago. As we told you, he'll be talking drugs, guns, trade, immigration, all the well-known trouble spots in U.S. relations with Mexico. We'll continue to monitor this and, of course, take it live if he makes any remarks.

Smuggling drugs is a labor-intensive business and sadly labor is not hard to find. CNN's Ed Lavandera has been on the trail of the cartel's delivery men, many of whom are still boys.

Ed, is this a new thing, or has it been going on for quite a while?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's been going on for quite some time. But what's interesting, though, in various places along the border in the last couple of weeks, in the last couple of months. Customs and border protection officials say that they've started to see an uptick, an increase in various areas seen a rise in these teenage smugglers and juveniles smuggling drugs again. So, it is cause for alarm once again.

PHILLIPS: You know, you've talked to me about how these teenagers get sucked into the system. You know, how do the cartels recruit them? I mean, they come from poor families and it comes down to money, doesn't it?

LAVANDERA: Well, it's not necessarily - you know, the fascinating thing it has very little to do in many cases with coming from a poor family. We've talked with officials in El Paso this week who talked about middle-class kids, kids from honor roll, one kid in particular who had scholarships to go to Ivy League schools.

So, I mean, obviously, it is quick money. But it's not necessarily defined by your socioeconomic level. And one of the things I was fascinated by, too, as well is that it's not necessarily just boys. Many girls, just as many girls, who do this as well.

But really what it boils down to is what they're looking for are kids that have reason and access to cross back and forth the border. That's why American teenagers are popular, because they can go over to Juarez or another border town on the Mexican side and they can come back. There's no problems.

And they're also looking for Mexican kids that have what's called the border crossing card. These are issued by the State Department and these are cards that thousands, tens of thousands of people, along the border have. This is a very common thing. Gives them access to go back and forth on a daily basis. If you're a Mexican kid and you have one of those cards, you become very beneficial and become a prime target for these cartels.

PHILLIPS: That's interesting, Ed.

By the way, as we are talking to you, we are looking at Air Force One right now, just landed in Mexico City. We're watching for the president to step off the aircraft there, as we continue to talk about exactly what the president's going to be talking to Felipe Calderon about.

You know, you mentioned the fact that here in the States, I mean, these are kids, like you said, you know, getting ready to go to Ivy League schools and it doesn't really matter about their background. Which is fascinating, because when we talk with Karl Penhaul, you know, I guess he said it's, you know, the poorer kids that are being recruited. Kids that don't see any other way out. It's quick cash. It's an opportunity for them. So, we're talking about, in many ways, two different worlds here.

But would you say that it does come down to the quick cash? Whether you are from a middle-class, wealthy family or a poor family in Mexico?

LAVANDERA: Absolutely. I mean, you know, even if you come from a middle-class family, the idea of being able to make, in some cases, a couple hundred bucks. They've paid -- we've heard stories where kids were paid up to $5,000 for a run.

Think about this. This involves going over to the Mexican side of the border. Either strapping loads of drugs to your body or stashing it away in a car, and whatever time it takes you to drive across the border, depending on where you are, that could take a couple of hours, it could take a couple of minutes. But if you can make $2,000, $3,000 in the course of a matter of a minutes, even people who come from well-to-do families can easily be lured and tempted by that kind of money.

PHILLIPS: Do me a favor and stand by with us, Ed, cause we're going to follow this live picture out of Mexico City. And depending on how long we stay with it, if we come back to it and we see the president, I'd love to have you with us to discuss his trip there to Mexico City. So stay with me.

Meanwhile - OK, there we go. We're seeing the president now stepping off the aircraft there in Mexico City, getting ready to meet with President Felipe Calderon.

You know, Ed, you know, this is -- it's interesting. You would wonder -- you would hope, I guess, on many levels that he will come back and spend more than just today. He's got to take off to the Summit of Americas in Trinidad and Tobago. But, I mean, there are a lot of issues. Not just drugs and guns, but we can't forget about trade and immigration. Those, essentially, two other crucial subjects that the president has got to talk with the president about there in Mexico when it comes to just making the countries, both countries, safer.

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, Kyra, and I think these two issues are intertwined to the extent and in recent weeks as we've started paying more attention to the situation along the border and the violence, it becomes very clear when you visit the communities along the border that all of this is intertwined. That the violence and the way that the rest of the violence is perceived by the rest of the country, in the U.S. and in Mexico as well, that that does play out on the economic front as well.

You know, there are a lot of people who do business in these border towns and in Mexico. And when they talk about being afraid of going down there to do business, you know, that starts affecting bottom lines and that sort of thing.

So, that is something that people, especially along the border, are very sensitive to right now. As they see, you know, a lot of attention being paid to the drug violence and the drug cartel situation, they understand that at the end of the day, this is also very much intertwined with the economic situation between the two countries.

PHILLIPS: And this visit in Mexico, Ed, comes just a day after Janet Napolitano, the head of homeland security, naming a border czar. You know, we've talked about and covered the fact that there's a drug czar. It's the first time that an administration has created this type of job.

You know, you've covered so many of these stories with regard to what's taking place there at the border. We're talking specifically about, you know, kids being recruited to run drugs, both in Mexico and the United States. How crucial do you see this border czar position when it comes to direct action, immediate action, and not just being another, you know, bureaucratic person getting a high paycheck there within the administration?

LAVANDERA: Right, I think, you know, from the people we've talked to, I think there's a little bit of skepticism as to what exactly this will accomplish in the coming weeks and the coming months.

And, again, it's so different. Because, for example, you take El Paso, for example, where the homeland security director was yesterday. In El Paso, you know, you talk to officials there and they're very much upset by the fact that all the stories coming out of Juarez paint the city as obviously a very brutal, a very violent city. But you cross the border immediately, El Paso is relatively unscathed by all of this.

So these are the kinds of things that people in these area are sensitive to. So, many people, especially on the U.S. side along these borders, they don't necessarily see the violence in Mexico as something that has spilled over onto this side fully. Not to the extent of what we're seeing on the Mexican side. So, they -- I think people on the U.S. side are looking at it and saying, you know, we can have our border czar working on this, but it's going to take a lot of work on the Mexican side to get things done.

PHILLIPS: And it's going to give you a lot more stories. Ed Lavandera, sure appreciate you staying with me.

LAVANDERA: Sure.

PHILLIPS: You can also see Ed's full report on "AC 360" tonight. That's 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

And once again, live pictures there of the president of the United States touching down now in Mexico City for his one-day stop to meet with Mexican President Felipe Calderon.

We're going to take a quick break. More from the CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The longest recession since World War II has claimed yet another casualty, your neighborhood mall. The nation's second largest mall operator filed for bankruptcy protection today and it affects hundreds of shopping centers across the country.

Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with all the details.

So, Susan, where are the affected malls?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Where are they not, Kyra, is the better question?

PHILLIPS: Wow.

LISOVICZ: You may not know the name General Growth, but you know its malls because there are 200 of them in 44 states. Some of them quite famous like the Watertower Place in Chicago, Nathaniel Hall in Boston. Here in New York it's the South Street Seaport. And not one but three of them in your backyard, Kyra, in Atlanta, the Cumberland Mall, the North Point and the Perimeter Malls and they range from Costco and IKEA to you know, high-end like Nordstrom and Niemen Marcus.

PHILLIPS: Yes, those are some of our best malls. That's not good news for all of us that like to shop, that's for sure.

All right, well, what is going on with the mall industry? Is it just that people aren't shopping or is it too expensive to rent space in these malls?

LISOVICZ: Well, it's just - it's another shoe that drops, Kyra. You know, it starred with residential real estate.

And think about it, that's where the recession began. People aren't spending. They're worried about their jobs, they don't have money to spend. So they're getting squeezed on that end. Lots and lots of stores are closing down.

On the other hand, they have mortgages that are due. They want to refinance and the banks don't want to hear about it. So they're getting squeezed on both ends and the result of is a lot of red ink -- $27 billion in debt. And they've been trying to negotiate it for months. They weren't able to. And that's why General Growth has filed for bankruptcy.

PHILLIPS: So, how could this affect you and me when we want to go to these malls? Could these malls just close down?

LISOVICZ: No, that shouldn't happen. You really shouldn't notice it. As with so many bankruptcies, Kyra, you know, whether it's airlines or retailers, you shouldn't really notice it. They'll continue to operate.

But one thing that will happen is General Growth will get a lot smaller. It's going to have to sell these properties, so while you will notice signs of recession -- fewer cars, fewer stores, lots of promotions in these malls - they're going to have so sell some of these properties. So the creditors, the banks, are going to want to make sure that the operators keep up the appearances, so you really shouldn't - if successful - you shouldn't notice any difference at all. And hopefully, they'll offer a lot of great sales to entice you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: There you go, entice us all, including you. Susan, thanks.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, sure, there's never a good time to be laid off, but this is ridiculous. A nurse gets a pink slip at an extremely inopportune time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Remembering the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre. Two years ago today, a gunman shot 32 students and teachers to death before turning the gun on himself. Here in the NEWSROOM today, we're paying tribute to all of those students and teachers who lost their lives that day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, a nurse helping with a surgery ends up getting cut herself, from the payroll. Can you believe this? A manager pulled the RN out of the O.R. and laid her off. Wisconsin-based Dean Health System says, oops, it was clearly an error in judgment. Probably didn't need a second opinion on that one. And the company says it was also a breach of protocol. But the procedure went smoothly, thank goodness, and the patient is just fine.

Well, don't swallow those apple seeds, you'll grow an apple tree in your throat. Remember when your momma told you that? Well, it looks like she was right. But please note, we haven't independently verified this story. We're going to let you be the judge. Surgeons in Russia claim they found a two-inch fir tree growing in a 28-year- old man's lung. Yes, you heard it right. Doctors believe the guy must have inhaled a seed at some point and it sprouted. They thought he had cancer, turns out he needed pruning.

Captain Richard Phillips isn't home yet, but he's a big step closer and a long way from the lifeboat and those pirates who held a gun to his back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: He's still thousands of miles away, yet he's so much closer to home. Captain Richard Phillips will be getting on a chartered plane in Kenya and heading back to the U.S. soon. The USS Bainbridge brought him into the port in Mombasa earlier today more than a week after his Somali pirate ordeal began.

His crew from the Maersk Alabama already back, telling their stories. One crew man talked about one pirate who had survived, how he wanted to kill the pirate and how the chief engineer insisted he be kept alive.

Well, one of the Alabama crewmen who walked off that plane is Ken Quinn. We can't wait to talk with him under better circumstances. The last time we heard his voice, the pirate hijacking was just happening and its outcome, well, still up in the air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, APRIL 8TH, 2009, CNN NEWSROOM)

PHILLIPS: Apparently, we've been able to reach a member of the Maersk crew there off the Somali coast where those pirates attacked that vessel. As you know, members of the crew took down one of those pirates. We are now being told the captain being held hostage in another type of boat off of that vessel. We were able to reach Ken Quinn, second mate there on the Alabama.

Ken, can you hear me OK?

KEN QUINN, SECOND MATE, MAERSK ALABAMA (via telephone): Yes.

PHILLIPS: Ken, can you tell me the situation right now?

QUINN: Right now they want to hold our captain for ransom and we're trying to get him back. We have a coalition warship that will be here in three hours. So, we're just trying to hold them off for three more hours and then we'll have a warship here to help us.

PHILLIPS: Can you tell me where your captain is in proximity to your cargo ship? Where is the -- who was he with? What type of boat is he on right now? QUINN: He's in the ship's lifeboat. They sink their boat - when they boarder a ship, they sink their boats. So the captain talked them into getting off the ship with our lifeboat. But we took one of their pirates hostage and we did an exchange.

What? OK. I've got to go.

PHILLIPS: Ken, can you stay with me for just two more seconds?

QUINN: What?

PHILLIPS: Tell me what the - can you tell me about the negotiations, what you've offered these pirates in exchange for your captain?

QUINN: We had one of their hostages. We had a pirate we took and we kept him for 12 hours. We tied him up and he was our prisoner.

PHILLIPS: Did you return him?

QUINN: Yes, we did. But we returned him, but they didn't return the captain. So now we're just trying to offer them whatever we can. Food. But it's not working too good. We're just trying to hold off until...

PHILLIPS: Ken, are you in control of the vessel right now?

QUINN: Yes. Yes. Yes. They are not aboard now.

PHILLIPS: OK.

QUINN: We're controlling the ship now.

PHILLIPS: So, can you see that lifeboat with your captain, with the pirates? Is he OK? Is he still alive?

QUINN: Yes. Yes. He talks on the -- he's got one of our ship's radios, yes. We talk to him.

PHILLIPS: So what is it the pirates want now in exchange for your captain?

QUINN: All right. I've got to hang up. I can't - I've got to go right now. I got to...

PHILLIPS: All right. Ken, I don't want to hold you up. Appreciate it.

Ken Quinn, second mate there on the Alabama.

My gosh. You could hear the phones ringing right behind him there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And you know the outcome, Navy SEALs took out the pirates.

Now Ken Quinn, we welcome you home. We can't wait to talk to you. We welcome the rest of the crew home. And of course, Captain Phillips, we're looking forward to your return as well.

CNN NEWSROOM with Rick Sanchez starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We handed our country away to the liberals and they're destroying it.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): So, how many attended these "tea parties" and how does it compare to the anti-Iraq war rallies? To the immigration reform protests?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's midnight in Juarez. Mexico's most dangerous city.

SANCHEZ: A rare and exclusive look behind the front lines in Mexico's drug wars, as two presidents hammer out border security, drugs, guns.

And you'll see an exclusive look inside Mexico's lost city. No permits, no infrastructure. I'll take you inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody kind of got scared. The market got depleted.

SANCHEZ: The gun and ammo buy-up continues, belying the facts. One Wal-Mart runs out.

And United tells people who are really, really fat, "If you don't fit, you don't fly."