Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Boston Medical Student's Alleged Double Life; Mass Horse Death Mystery Deepens

Aired April 22, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): What happens when the engine stalls in flight? Yes, that's what you're hearing, powerless in the air, and caught on camera.

(on camera): You said some stuff you probably wish you hadn't said. Why?

PEREZ HILTON, CELEBRITY BLOGGER: Oh, actually, I don't take it back anymore.

SANCHEZ: What Perez Hilton told me he would not take back. Can it fuel violence against women?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is a lot bigger than it seems.

SANCHEZ: What do you say? The original national conversation begins right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. It's a conversation. It is not a speech. And it's your turn to get involved.

And we begin with Abu Ghraib, the pictures, nudity, human pyramids, dogs, electrical cords, interrogations, so harsh, most called it torture. Bush administration officials at the time blamed the soldiers, calling them just a few bad apples. That is a direct quote, by the way.

Well, it now appears as if those bad apples are getting their moment of vindication. Today, a brand-new Senate report now declassified says everyone, up the chain of command, not only knew what was going on at Abu Ghraib, but authorized it. They ordered it. They even tried to cover it up.

And just about all the names are in this report, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and, yes, President Bush. It goes beyond Abu Ghraib, by the way, all the way to the Pentagon and even to the White House.

Yet, among those disciplined was former Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who was disgraced by the Bush White House for her involvement in Abu Ghraib. She is standing by, and will join me here in just a moment to go through this. But, first, Michael Scherer is a "TIME" magazine correspondent who has written tons about this topic and he's good enough to join us.

Michael, thanks very much for being with us.

MICHAEL SCHERER, "TIME": Thanks for having me, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Would Americans be correct to assess this as a story about bosses, simple analogy here, everybody can understand this, bosses who tried to blame their actions on their underlings?

SCHERER: Yes, you know, what this Senate report shows is, very clearly, in some detail, the chain of command for a lot of these techniques.

Now, Abu Ghraib was a complicated situation. You had some of the photos that people know were actions taken by the military policemen working the night shift on their own. But other pictures, with detainees strung up, with their arms spread, standing on boxes in stress positions, those were actually tactics that came down on orders from above for the military policemen to use. You had a mix of procedures going on.

SANCHEZ: But that's important. I mean, from above is the word I just heard you say.

SCHERER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Here's a quote from Paul Wolfowitz at the time. We looked it up. You ready? Here's what he said.

SCHERER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: "It is such a disservice to everyone else that a few bad apples can create some large problems for everybody."

He's saying it was the little guys down on the front lines who screwed up, and now it's making the big guys look bad. There's irony there, isn't there?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHERER: Their screw-up there, from the Pentagon brass perspective at the time, was in taking pictures. That was the mistake, is creating documentation that then got leaked out, so then everybody knew what was in some of those photos very standard practice at Abu Ghraib.

SANCHEZ: Carl Levin, he's the chair of this committee, by the way, who is investigating this, says, this is a case of shifting the blame is what I believe he is saying.

Can this be left like this, where it is, I mean, where the underlings end up paying the price, being punished, like Janis Karpinski, who we're going to be talking to in just a little bit? And that's not to say -- or diminish her and say that she's an underling, but she wasn't working at the White House at the time.

But the underlings paid the price and the big guys walk? Can it be left like this?

SCHERER: Well, on the on-the-ground level, most of the military justice process has already run its course. And in most cases, anybody with -- anyone above the bottom level of chain of command was not prosecuted. And that's because, if they were, then they would have been just pointing further up and questions would have gone all the way up to the top.

That ball may have already passed, you know, through the court. The issue here is, you know, setting the historical record straight, and then there's this other question of whether President Obama, his new Justice Department, will pursue...

SANCHEZ: Well, that -- let me ask you directly about that.

SCHERER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: I hear you going there. Let me try and phrase the question so we can get through this fairly.

SCHERER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: It doesn't sound like we know exactly what his intentions are at this point. Will President Obama agree to prosecute, not agree to prosecute, or, from what you can tell, covering this story, does it look like he just hasn't decided yet?

SCHERER: What it is, is, he's getting a lot of pressure. He's always said that he doesn't see much benefit from looking backwards and from making this a painful battle, which it would be if he tried to prosecute people who were effectively working in the Bush White House.

SANCHEZ: Huh.

SCHERER: That said, there's a lot of pressure coming from human rights groups. There's a lot of pressure coming from people on the Hill. There's pushes for further studies like the Levin commission report that you mentioned.

SANCHEZ: Right.

SCHERER: And what he said yesterday was essentially, I'm going to refer to it my Justice Department. They may deal not with the CIA interrogators who were actually carrying out these interrogations, but they may choose at a later date to go after someone higher up who were creating these policies.

SANCHEZ: But...

SCHERER: The likelihood of that happening, I think, is frankly quite slim. But it does allow this conversation to keep going, which is probably a good thing. We need to clear the historical record. SANCHEZ: Well, and, if nothing else, if nothing else about the United States of America, this is a country where people are inherently fair or we try to be.

And the idea that all this went down and we know that there were soldiers who were punished as a result, and the people up high who were giving them orders aren't being punished just doesn't seem fair, I'm sorry, no matter what party you're in or what or what your affiliation is.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHERER: And, frankly, what we know of the way other detainees were treated in the official interrogation program is in some ways worse than what we saw in those Abu Ghraib photos. And that was officially sanctioned. Everybody from Don Rumsfeld to people in the White House knew exactly what was going on with those interrogations.

SANCHEZ: Mr. Scherer, thanks so much for being with us, sir. Good stuff.

SCHERER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Joining us now from New Jersey is retired Army Colonel Janis Karpinski. You will remember she used to be a Brigadier General Janis Karpinski. She was involved and I guess you could say was somewhat taken down by this fiasco, fair or unfair.

Let's talk to her about it. She's joining us by phone.

Colonel, thanks so much for being with us.

BRIG. GENERAL JANIS KARPINSKI (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Nice to be with you. Thank you for the invitation.

SANCHEZ: This report would make it seem like lots of people in the military were scapegoated. I can't help but say that after reading through it and seeing what we're reporting today. Were -- do you feel you were scapegoated?

KARPINSKI: Absolutely, from the beginning.

And, I mean, I have never had a face-to-face conversation with anybody in my chain of command, and I will tell you that when I read those memorandums, when they were first released a few days ago, I did -- I did feel this sense of being able to exhale after five years, that this is what we have been saying from the very beginning, that, wait a minute, why are you inside pointing the finger at me? Why are you pointing the finger at these soldiers? There's a bigger story here.

But the photographs, as your guest was saying -- he's absolutely right. The outrage was over the photographs, because the photographs were living color of what those top-secret memorandums authorized. So, it is unfair. I disagree with him. The military justice system may have -- the soldiers may have moved through that system, but they never had a fair court-martial, not any one of them, because they all condemned as one of the seven bad apples before they ever set foot in a courtroom.

SANCHEZ: We're talking to Janis Karpinski. She was Brigadier General Janis Karpinski. You will recall that she was disgraced, humiliated?

KARPINSKI: Yes, absolutely.

SANCHEZ: Is that the right way to describe this?

KARPINSKI: Those are perfect words to describe it and used because they needed somebody at a high level to blame, and I was the perfect scapegoat.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Colonel, can you explain to us and to our viewers how these decisions to use these techniques that we're now all reading about came down the pike to you?

KARPINSKI: They migrated, if you will, for lack of a better term, but it's actually a perfect expression -- they migrated from Guantanamo Bay, or Gitmo, the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

And they came as part and parcel of the team, so-called tiger team, that accompanied Major General Miller. He was the commander at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, at the time. And he was sent to Iraq to -- we had a myriad of problems in our -- in the prison system, not with detainees who were undergoing interrogations, but with Iraqi criminal prisoners.

And instead of coming to give us support, he was sent specifically to work with the military intelligence interrogators to teach them the harsher techniques that were using down at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

SANCHEZ: You say harsher techniques. Was it torture?

KARPINSKI: Well, we see in the photographs certainly abuse of, you know, your privilege or your authority.

SANCHEZ: Well, was it torture?

KARPINSKI: I think it was torture, absolutely.

You know, and I was never inside an interrogation room where they were conducting interrogations, but I read the memorandums many times over. Water-boarding is torture.

SANCHEZ: Did you ever -- when this was all happening at the time, did you ever think or did you ever attempt to go to your superiors and say, this is wrong; the United States of America shouldn't be doing this? KARPINSKI: I -- I did not have any knowledge of the interrogations or those practices we saw in those photographs at all while I was there.

The first time I saw the photographs was at the end of January. And, at that time, I was in the office of General Sanchez, Lieutenant General Sanchez, who was the commander in Iraq at the time.

And I said to him, sir, when I heard that there was an investigation, I couldn't imagine what I saw in the photographs. But I need to have a press conference. And I need to go to the Iraqi people. I have a good relationship with them and the media here. And we need to focus on the successful accomplishment so far. We need to say, right now, this is what we know. We're doing an investigation. Don't focus on this.

And he said no. He gave me an order not to discuss those photographs or the investigation with anybody.

SANCHEZ: And you, today, feel vindicated?

KARPINSKI: Well, like I said, I can exhale.

But I -- I think that, you know, you cannot dismiss five years of having to live under these accusations and people associating my name and these soldiers' names with what they were so unfairly accused of.

SANCHEZ: Janis Karpinski, we thank you for taking time to take us through this story, which was, for you, I imagine at the time, a very difficult one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK SULLIVAN, NEIGHBOR OF PHILIP MARKOFF: My girlfriend actually rode the elevator a lot with him alone, which is kind of freaking her out now, because she thought he was kind of the all- American good-looking guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: As we follow that story, also this: Why would a medical student studying to save lives allegedly take one? The latest on the accused craigslist killer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You bet there's a beep there. This is the video you are going to be telling others about, tomorrow. The airplane engine suddenly shuts off. Oh, no. How does the pilot react? What does he do? What he say? You will see it for yourself.

And this: A firefighters test is thrown out because not enough African-Americans or Hispanics did well on the test, even though the other guys, the white guys, did very well on it. Discrimination? We will let you decide. The case is now in the Supreme Court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.

The commentary is pouring in, in social media over that interview we did moments ago with Janis Karpinski.

Let's go ahead and go to Twitter, Robert. Let's get a couple of those in here before we go on to our next story.

Carol was watching. She says: "Double standard. Easy for government to blame soldiers for mistakes. In the read world, management gets the axe for bad products and services."

"She was definitely thrown under the bus. That's how the military covers their own butts."

"Rick, this interview with Brigadier General Karpinski is riveting. Thanks for bringing it."

"We need to make the people responsible for Abu Ghraib mess. Karpinski was just a scapegoat."

Those are coming in fast and furious. As they do, we will continue to share them with you.

Welcome back. This now here is a fascinating development in the so-called craigslist killing case that I have been telling you about for the last couple of days. And it may now all have to do -- you're not going to believe this. It may all now have to do with a medical student who simply had a gambling debt.

This is the woman that he allegedly tried to hook up with. Her Web site promised massages. Philip Markoff instead is charged with killing her and robbing her to pay off his gambling debt. In fact, police are now saying that he was arrested while he and his fiancee were on their way to a casino.

Here is CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 22, Philip Markoff seemed to be on the right path. Tall and wholesome-looking, the aspiring doctor with the boyish grin was in medical school and engaged to be married.

Patrick Sullivan lives upstairs from Markoff in Quincy, Massachusetts.

PATRICK SULLIVAN, NEIGHBOR OF PHILIP MARKOFF: My girlfriend actually rode the elevator a lot with him alone, which is kind of freaking her out now, because she thought he was kind of the all- American good-looking guy.

When she saw him on TV yesterday, she even remarked: "I can't believe it's him. I always thought he had such a great smile. And he was so nice to me."

KAYE: Sullivan says he never met Markoff's fiancee. The couple's wedding Web site says they met in an emergency room in Albany, New York, where Markoff attended Sunni college, and that he proposed to Megan McAllister during a horse-and-carriage ride.

Sounds romantic, but investigators say Markoff is a predator, leading a double life, studying medicine by day, attacking vulnerable women at gunpoint by night, women he allegedly met answering ads for erotic services on the classifieds Web site craigslist.

Markoff is charged with murder in one attack, kidnapping and armed robbery in another. In court today, Markoff was silent, but his lawyer told the Associated Press he's not guilty -- also in court, new details about the moments before the murder of Julissa Brisman.

JENNIFER HICKMAN, SUFFOLK COUNTY ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This is the defendant, who on February -- April 14, 2009, bashed in the head of Julissa Brisman and shot her three times at close range.

KAYE: Markoff's own alleged online adventures may be what tripped him up. This surveillance tape from inside two Boston hotels was key.

But the real goods, detectives say, Markoff's own e-mail account, which he used to e-mail the murder victim. He had opened it the day before her killing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They identified his Internet provider's address at that Quincy location where he lives. That linked him to that location. They began to put the house under surveillance. They see Philip Markoff. He matches the description quite remarkably.

KAYE: Police say a search of Markoff's apartment turned up a gun, restraints, and duct tape.

(on camera): Here on the campus of B.U.'s medical school, where Markoff was in his second year, a lot of students are wondering why someone who was training to save lives allegedly would have taken one.

JOHN TUCKER, STUDENT, BOSTON UNIVERSITY: This guy, like, on paper looks, sounds a lot like, you know, a lot of the people walking around the halls here. So, yes, I was pretty creeped out.

KAYE (voice-over): Via e-mail, Markoff's fiancee told ABC News, police have the wrong man. "Philip is a beautiful person inside and out and could not hurt a fly," and "they expect to share a wonderful, meaningful life together."

For now, at least, that seems hard to imagine, with her fiance in shackles, answering to a murder charge.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: I can be offensive. I don't have to be politically correct. I can call her the B-word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That's what he told me here yesterday about Miss California. The B-word online, was Perez Hilton abusive when he used it? Well, cyber-crudeness and what it can often lead to is what we're examining today.

Also, this -- it's a struggle. It's a fight. It's amazing to watch. They're fighting over a child movie star. Did you see "Slumdog Millionaire"? This scene here, it wasn't in it.

What exactly is in a firefighters' exam that would make it fair to white test-takers who passed, but unfair to African-Americans and Hispanics who didn't?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Rick, this is Calvin (ph) calling from Houston, Texas.

Miss California has the right speak her mind, her opinions, without -- this is America. So, she shouldn't get any negative flak for -- for that which she believes. I support her.

And that's that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Interestingly enough, we're getting a lot of comments on this. We got a comment coming in right now.

Let's go to our Twitter board, continuing to comment on the interview with did with Janis Karpinski just a little while ago on the statements that she made, right?

One says: "Are you saying that mistreatment at Abu Ghraib was ordered, just as CIA interrogations at Gitmo?" And obviously the response would come from Karpinski, who said she seemed to be intimating that it was systemwide. And she was in charge of the prisons.

Let's go to another story. Can saving the planet and using renewable energy end up saving our economy? Or is that a huge stretch by the president of the United States?

Here he is, just now, departing Iowa. There he is, after expressing -- or addressing, I should say, this topic at the Earth Day celebrations in Iowa. And the president was promoting better use of wind power as an energy source. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The choice we face is not between saving our environment and saving our economy. The choice we face is between prosperity and decline. We can remain the world's leading importer of oil, or we can become the world's leading exporter of clean energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are we going?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness, the video of the day, without question, because some stories just need to be watched, and not even necessarily told.

There's an update on the still-unexplained and sudden deaths of 21 polo horses. I'm going to take you to Florida for the very latest on this investigation.

Stay with us. I'm Rick Sanchez. And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

We have been in contact with John Zarrella all day long, because he's been trying to find out what in the world is going on with the story of these polo horses, these 21 horses that suddenly died in Florida. I mean, how bizarre can get this -- can this story get? Twenty-one horses, they suddenly get dizzy, all about the same time. They stumble, and then suddenly collapse, 21.

Straight to Miami now, John Zarrella standing by.

John, are the toxicology reports back?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Well, you know, Rick, it's important to point out in context that they all belonged to the same team. So, it's not like there's this widespread outbreak affecting a bunch of different horses and polo teams.

So, for viewers who hadn't been following it, all from one team, which made it all the more suspicious of something gone wrong within the team. And the toxicology results are not in. The necropsies, which is basically the animal version of an autopsy, going on at the University of Florida and in Kissimmee, Florida, at state laboratories, are -- 16 of the horses of the 21 were brought to the University of Florida School of Veterinary Medicine to be examined.

And the vets there are telling us in that, in those early necropsies, the results of the necropsy show a little bit of hemorrhaging on some of the horses, not all of them, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Now, this morning, our all-platform journalists in Orlando, John Couwels, had the opportunity to go up to the University of Florida. And we were given the opportunity to go inside the laboratory where they had begun the toxicology on the blood.

And it's important to note that they took the blood samples from the horses before they passed away, some of the horses, that survived a little bit longer. So, that's very important to note, because they can get more out of that blood than they can out of horses that have already perished, apparently.

Now, we did have a chance to talk to one of the -- the assistant dean at School of Veterinary Medicine. He says that what they're looking for now is nothing specific, but a broad range of possibilities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN HARVEY, UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA SCHOOL OF VETERINARY MEDICINE: We haven't gotten very much information with regards to what they suspect from their investigation in South Florida. So, we have taken more of the approach of evaluating the whole animal and broadly looking sort of at everything.

Now, there certainly are rumors out there of one compound or another or a vitamin supplement and so forth. But we haven't really tried to focus on specific things at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: So, right now, they're doing -- getting down to business of the toxicology, getting down to the business of doing microbiological, so up close, real close, taking the tissue samples from the heart, the lungs, and going through everything, piece by piece, on those 16 animals they have at the University of Florida and the others that they have down in Kissimmee at the state laboratories, so, getting closer to some answers, but no real answers yet as to what might have caused the death of these 21 horses -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: John Zarrella, all over this, give me a call as soon as you find out if that thing is back and we get some news on it, all right?

ZARRELLA: Got it.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This case today of the New Haven firefighters will define what the Supreme Court says about race and employment at the dawn of the new Obama administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Are white guys, using that term loosely, of course, being discriminated against? These firefighters passed the promotions test with flying colors, then were told it's being thrown out because African-Americans and Hispanics didn't do well enough. That's not right, is it?

Also, she's been called just about every name in the book the last few days, a lot of it happening online, by the way. Does all that nasty language promote abuse against women? We're looking into it.

Oh, and if you have ever wondered what happens in a cockpit when the engine stalls, wonder no more. You're going to be seeing it for yourself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

I'm Rick Sanchez.

For those of you who may have missed the beginning of this newscast, we did an interview with Janis Karpinski -- former Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, now Colonel Janis Karpinski -- that will likely make some news. She was one who lost her job. She was in charge of prisons at the time of the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal.

She told us several things in regards to this new Senate report that seems to indicate that all the techniques used on detainees and prisoners around the world were actually handed down or regulated by -- all the way from the top -- all the way, going all the way to the White House.

Here's what she said to us. She said to us: "After reading this report, she's finally able to breathe." She also said that it was torture. I asked her twice. She said yes, torture. And she also said that all the techniques she used in Abu Ghraib and throughout were, in fact, ordered from above.

So there you have it. And by the way, you're going to be able to see that at CNN.com/ricksanchez. CNN.com/ricksanchez. That's my blog.

And we're going to put the full interview on there so you'll be able to see it -- again, with Colonel Janis Karpinski.

Comments coming in from you. Let's go over here to our Facebook page, if we possibly can, that we've set up for you: "Rick, I do not agree with what Miss California said, but I will fight to the death for her right to say it."

Robin Campbell says: "I'm black and totally support the white fighters who want to protect the higher test scores. Firefighting is a serious business and is not to be taken lightly. There is no discrimination here."

And there you have it. And now this -- yes, there she is again, Miss California.

You've seen that picture a few times, have you?

She's got all of you fired up on Twitter, on my blog, on MySpace. Most applaud her for her convictions. Some say that she sounded somewhat bigoted. And the consensus is that she wasn't exactly articulate, no matter what, in her response.

OK, leaving that aside, should she be called ugly names on the Internet by the likes of Perez Hilton?

He told me yesterday that he's not taking back what he said. But maybe after watching this report, he will change his mind. We want you to watch it, as well.

Here's CNN's Carol Costello.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY PEREZHILTON.COM)

HILTON: Miss California lost because she's a dumb (EXPLETIVE DELETED), OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maybe that shocks you. If it doesn't, some cyber crime experts say it ought to, because even though Perez Hilton routinely uses the B word on his gossip Web site, he uses it in an entirely different way to describe Miss California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY PEREZHILTON.COM)

HILTON: And I called her the B word and, hey, I was thinking the C word and I didn't say it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Using such language is more than rude, they say. It's feeding a growing problem online -- sexist, racist, hateful rants.

ROBERT SICILIANO, CEO, IDTHEFTSECURITY.COM: When someone like Perez Hilton, who was hired by Donald Trump, then goes out and spews vile content about Miss America, you know that the problem is a lot bigger than it seems.

COSTELLO: Online hate has become pervasive -- people viciously criticizing everything from online newspaper columns to friends on Facebook and YouTube. It's the kind of online behavior Robert Siciliano says well-known people like Perez Hilton should condemn, not join in.

SICILIANO: What we're seeing here is people who are being held to a higher esteem are ranting in this way. And it gives millions and millions of other people the blessing to go ahead and do the exact same thing.

ANTHONY POWELL, POSTED ONLINE VIDEOS: Tony 48219 here. It's all over.

COSTELLO: And there are plenty of examples. This man, Anthony Powell, posted dozens of videos online calling black women the B word. His primary target, Asia McGowan, who tried to fight back with an online video of her own.

ASIA MCGOWAN, POSTED ONLINE VIDEO: And when you hate, this is what you do -- bringing the other person up and you bring yourself down.

COSTELLO: YouTube did manage to remove some of Powell's videos, but he eventually turned his online rage outward, stalking and killing McGowan and then killing himself.

It's an extreme example, but Siciliano says it's a warning people like Hilton should heed before they use hateful words online.

SICILIANO: At some point in time, this stalker believed or was made to believe that it was perfectly OK to talk like that and to distribute this via mass media. And we, as a society, have made it acceptable for those rants to go on air.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Yes, this pilot's engine has just cut off in the middle of his flight.

What would you do?

You have to see how this one comes together.

And then these two women having a very public brawl in India over a famous little girl. There's an update and we've got it.

Did you see the movie "Slumdog Millionaire?"

See, there's a connection here -- an important connection. We'll bring it to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CONGY: Hey, Rick, this is Congy (ph) from Atlanta. Anytime you call a woman a B word are a C word, that's violence. Just because you're gay -- you're a gay dude, that doesn't give you a pass, because you're still a dude and you're using hate language against a woman. It's just not right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.

You know this is the newscast where we involve you in every way possible using social media. As I like to say, it's a conversation, not a speech. And in the conversation, sometimes I've got to listen.

So let's go to MySpace, where someone's asking me to listen to their comment. And here's what she has to say: "Perez is an example of a rather ugly problem in this society -- that being humans have devolved. Hate online is no different than in person. But now it has come out from under the rocks and is now mainstream. Heaven help us all."

We thank you for your comment. We tend to agree, from time to time, when we see things like that.

You are about to see -- as promised -- what happens when an engine on a plane conks out in mid-flight. The pilot and passenger are flying over central Texas in a home-built aircraft -- apparently, not built well enough. It's hard to watch this video and not feel like you're there in the cockpit with these two.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY FRONT PAGE PRODUCTIONS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No. Where we going?

Do you have enough fuel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

(EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have enough fuel?

I'm going to -- holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a person there. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left swing, left swing, left swing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A wing -- my God, you made it down, obviously.

Was I right? This is a landing that would not have worked during rush hour, folks. But nonetheless, it was a bit of a rush to watch together. Wow!

(VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Fame usually comes at a price. Ask the young -- the star of "Slumdog Millionaire," whose mother is fighting over her.

Oh, and did the father have something to do with this or not?

There's new information on this story -- reports of the child -- apparently that somebody tried to sell the child?

We've got an update.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We welcome you back.

I should tell you that there seems to be a consensus growing, at least on social media, as you've been watching this show -- I can't read them all to you, because I don't want to get backed up time-wise. But there's a lot of folks who are commenting about Perez Hilton.

And most of you -- Perez, if you're watching, most people are saying you were out of line for saying the things that you said about Miss California, whether you agree with her or disagree with her.

And now this. Fame has a way of making people crazy and Bollywood is no exception. This video may best tell that story.

Here it is.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is Mumbai. And there go the punches. And this is the step mom and the mom of that little girl.

Do you remember that little girl?

Did you see the movie?

A great movie, by the way.

The little girl, her name was Latika. And it was a smash hit. "Slumdog Millionaire" was the name of the movie.

Why are these two fighting, the mom and the step mom of the girl who played Latika?

Because in an Indian tabloid, they're reporting that the girl's father tried to sell her to the highest bidder. But here's the latest. Reports out of India now from authorities reveal there's no evidence at all to suggest that the father tried to do this -- at least not now, not yet. Which means this fight may have been for naught.

And this story. Today, the U.S. Supreme Court is taking up a subject of race in the workplace. Here's the case. In New Haven, Connecticut, firefighters take an exam to decide which of them will be promoted to the ranks of captain or lieutenant. The white guys all passed the test, but no African-Americans and only two Hispanics do well enough on this test to move on.

So what does the city do?

It throws the test out, as if it never happened, saying it wasn't fair to minorities.

I know, most of you are probably saying right about now, what?

Here's CNN's Mary Snow.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They've become known as the New Haven 20. Nineteen of these Connecticut firefighters are white, one is Latino. They say they were denied promotions because of their race and their lawsuit against the city will now be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court, which will hear the case Wednesday.

FRANK RICCI, LEAD PLAINTIFF, NEW HAVEN FIREFIGHTER: We undertook this action for firefighters across the country and for public safety.

SNOW: Frank Ricci and others took a promotional exam in 2003. When the results came back, the City of New Haven disqualified them because none of the black firefighters who took the exam would have been promoted.

The city's attorney said the tests were flawed.

VICTOR BOLDEN, ATTORNEY, CITY OF NEW HAVEN: When you have a test that suggests a severe racial impact, as this one did, it suggests that perhaps everyone didn't have an equal opportunity to succeed on the exam.

SNOW: But the attorney for the New Haven 20 firefighters said the city's move violates the Constitution.

KAREN TORRE, ATTORNEY FOR FIREFIGHTERS: The government is not supposed to tell any citizen that he or she is either going to get something or be deprived of something because of the color of your skin or ethnicity or gender or any other irrelevant factor.

SNOW: Gary Tinney, a lieutenant for the New Haven Fire Department, says he never got his exam results. But he wants to see promotions based on skills beyond written tests, such as...

GARY TINNEY, INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS: Job performance, community service, being able to interact with the diverse community.

SNOW: And the high court's decision will stretch far beyond New Haven.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is a hugely significant case because it begins to answer the question of whether race will be allowed to be used at all by government -- in affirmative action, in employment, in education, in admissions, anywhere at all.

SNOW (on camera): And Wednesday's dispute is just one of several involving civil rights issues going before the high court. Among some of the other cases being argued is one involving voting rights and another involving another involving education for non-English speaking students.

Mary Snow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: But the obvious question here is why offer the taste -- the test up in the first place if there are other things that are going to be used as determinants for assigning or promoting a person to captain or lieutenant?

Ashleigh Banfield is standing by.

She knows the story and is going to take us through this in just a little bit.

Stay there. This will be good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

I'm Rick Sanchez.

So as you saw in that report that we saw moments ago, the Supreme Court is now tussling with whether this is a case of discrimination. They give a test to candidates for captain and lieutenant. It turns out the minorities don't do well on the test. The non-minorities do very well on the test. So they throw the test out and say it wasn't fair to the minorities.

Something doesn't seem right. Something doesn't smell right about this. I think most people would see that on its face.

Ashleigh Banfield from "In Session" is joining us now live from New York with some analysis of this story.

New Haven says it did what it did to not discriminate. And an appeals court has agreed on this, by the way. So take us through this case. Make it make sense to us.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": It's not going to make sense to you. I hate to say it, that's why it's going all the way up to the Supreme Court of the land, so that at least they, the nine smartest people in the land, can try and make sense of it.

But here's basically what happened. The City of New Haven, in its fire department planning for promotions, put out the test and took out the 15 top scorers, one of whom was Hispanic, the rest who were white, and said those are the people we're going to elevate for promotional positions. But nobody who scored on those top 15 were black.

And the city of New Haven got very concerned that that would cause some -- some racial issues. And so they found themselves very much in a catch-22, Rick.

On one hand, they wanted to promote and do it fairly. And on the other hand, they didn't want to not promote unfairly.

SANCHEZ: But what would have...

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) the test.

SANCHEZ: But hold on. What would be...

BANFIELD: And they didn't promote anyone.

SANCHEZ: What would be discriminatory about the test itself?

If everyone -- were blacks told, I'm sorry, but you are not allowed to take this test?

Or were they invited to take the test?

BANFIELD: Oh, absolutely. There was nothing discriminatory about it.

SANCHEZ: And Hispanics, too, right?

BANFIELD: The test was (INAUDIBLE) fair.

SANCHEZ: So if everybody was allowed to take it, why can't it just be the person who did the best did the best?

BANFIELD: Well, because, I think that -- that in communities nowadays, we would like our -- our fire departments, our police departments, etc. to reflect who our community members are.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: And to not have any black people rising up through the ranks in those promotions, that worried the City of New Haven, and justifiably so.

SANCHEZ: You know, but that makes sense. But then their -- their criteria should have included something that maybe said we want people who have worked in all sectors of the community, we want people to have so many years experience, we want people to be built -- whatever. But once they...

BANFIELD: Well, the test is only academic...

SANCHEZ: Once they establish that -- the problem here is the test was a bad criteria.

BANFIELD: Well, I think what -- what you're probably going to see now is a bit more definition coming from (INAUDIBLE)...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because the Supreme Court has had stuff like this before on its plate.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: In fact, they've had "Bakke" in California, they've had Michigan. And they've established issues with regard to quotas and you're not allowed to establish quotas in certain circumstances.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BANFIELD: But they haven't defined exactly how you're supposed to...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: ...how you're allowed to use race in some circumstances.

SANCHEZ: Well, we could talk about this forever and I'm sure a lot of people will be.

BANFIELD: It's deep and it's not easy.

SANCHEZ: This is the kind of story people are going to be talking about at their dinner tables tonight, I guarantee you.

Ashleigh, thanks for being with us.

BANFIELD: Sure.

SANCHEZ: I've got -- I've got to give some of your time to Wolf Blitzer.

He's standing by right now to join us with what's going on.

Some interesting stories going on today, Wolf, not only in Washington, but as far away as Pakistan, for example.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, really worrisome developments, Rick, in Pakistan.

The Taliban now only about 60 miles -- 60 miles outside of the capital, Islamabad. And they're moving. They're moving big time. There's deep concern here in Washington about what the Pakistani government -- what the Pakistani military is doing against the Taliban and its Al Qaeda allies. We're going get official response from the Pakistani government. The ambassador, Husain Haqqani, he's here in "THE SITUATION ROOM." We'll speak with him. That's coming up right at the top of the hour -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer, we'll look forward to it.

Thanks so much.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.

I'm going through some of your responses. It's interesting, because it's all these stories that we've been doing thus far today that have got a lot of people riled up.

So let's start with Facebook, if we can. Yes. Then we'll go to Twitter. Then we'll go to MySpace. Let's get a couple of comments in.

All right. Here we go. Benjamin says: "If testing a person for job levels is discrimination, then dyslexics like myself are going to have lots of fun legally at all levels of the professional world, to say nothing of the educational world."

All right. Let's go over here to Twitter, if we can, Robert. And I think I've got a -- I think I've got us on favors (ph).

Do I?

Yes, here we go. Here we go: "The single most discriminated person in this world" -- and this is in response to that firefighter story from New Haven, Connecticut we just told you about -- "is the heterosexual male -- white male."

Heterosexual white male. Interesting.

And then we got this one. It says: "Whenever a test eliminates the majority of a racial group, the test is not is not valid."

One more, if we can. Flip it around. Let's see if we can get a MySpace in before we turn things over to Wolf Blitzer. And it goes like this: "Rick, in New Jersey, firefighters are required by state law to pass many written, as well as physical training criteria to remain active as firefighters. Pass the test, get the job. Fail the test, no promotion for you. Fear of lawsuit scared New Haven to pull its earned promotion. It's just wrong."

We thank all of you for your responds.

We thank you, as well, for being with us.

By the way, again, that Janis Karpinski interview that I did earlier in the newscast will be on my blog, CNN.com/ricksanchez.

And with that, let's turn things over to my buddy, Wolf Blitzer, in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf, take it away.

BLITZER: Rick, thank you.

Happening now, breaking news -- a critical U.S. ally in danger of falling into the hands of terrorists -- that warning from the Obama administration, as Taliban fighters push closer and closer to the Pakistani capital. Pakistan's ambassador to the United States is standing by live to give us his government's first response to this huge threat.

Plus, top Republicans warn the president against conducting a torture witch hunt. Mr. Obama's reversal on prosecuting -- potentially, at least -- Bush era officials, unleashes a political firestorm.