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Who Ordered Torture?; Prescription For Danger
Aired April 23, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Did sex occur in their house?
LEVI JOHNSTON, FORMER FIANCE OF BRISTOL PALIN: You know, Larry, that I'm a gentleman, you know, and I don't -- I don't kiss and tell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): So, then, why talk to CNN, Levi?
Plus, a pill to prevent pregnancy the morning after sex at 17?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hands off the truck!
SANCHEZ: An update on the cop-vs.-reporter saga. We know you have something to say about this one.
The original national conversation begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. It's a conversation. It is not a speech. And it's your turn to get involved.
This story has brand-new legs. You were blown away. We were blown away when we saw the U.S. soldier and torture report that came out just yesterday. We have since been further blown away by reaction from those who told me they were scapegoated and are now furious about what happened -- more on this in just a moment.
First, the hammer -- who knew? Here are the names. Rumsfeld knew. Condoleezza Rice knew. Dick Cheney knew. A three-star general knew. President George W. Bush knew. Remember those names, because we're talking about people who gave the go-ahead to allegedly torture detainees in Iraq.
And Capitol Hill types are now scrambling as well, as a matter of fact, not just Capitol Hill. I'm being told by my producer now that we have got some sound coming in. This story has been relentless over the last hour. This is I believe -- Chris, is this Eric Holder? Attorney General Eric Holder just gave a statement on this very this. Let's turn that around right away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: With regard to the task force, or those task forces that the president placed me in charge of, we are charged with in the first one to make individualized determinations about how the current detainees held at Guantanamo are to be treated.
We expect that some people will be released, determinations made that they can be sent to other countries. With regard to a second group, we expect that we will be trying them in Article 3 courts, in federal courts, perhaps also in military courts, and perhaps also in -- under military tribunals that have had -- that have significant changes made to the manner in which they would be conducted.
With regard to the second task force, we're also looking at interrogation policy and coming up with what we think are the best interrogation policies that we can come up with that are consistent with our values and yet will be effective in getting information from those who would do harm to this nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There you have it, the attorney general making comment now while people on Capitol Hill scramble.
The question is this. And this thing will gather steam and will gather momentum. Who now should also be prosecuted now that we have the list of names that I just read you?
Let's go right now to our Pentagon correspondent, Chris Lawrence.
Chris, before we do anything else, and before I engage you in this discussion that so many Americans are going to be asking themselves about on the left and on the right, I want you to watch something with me here, because we have also just heard from Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
Now, remember, he hadn't commented on this before. A lot of us were wondering if he had gone along with the releasing of this information. Let's take a listen together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The things that I was most concerned about was, first and foremost, the protection of the CIA officers who were involved in the interrogations and who performed their duties in accordance with the legal guidance that they had been given by the Justice Department. I wanted to make sure -- I felt very strongly the importance that they be protected.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: You know, Chris, what's interesting about this, this was George Bush's guy, I mean, post-Donald Rumsfeld, obviously, to be fair. Now he's Obama's guy.
So, what's his motivation for, allegedly -- or, apparently, I should say -- going along with releasing some of this stuff?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think -- I think there's a danger in reading too much into it.
I think this was the first time he had been asked about it since all of this had come out. And I think the best way to characterize it might be that he had reluctant support to release them. I think he's in a very interesting position, that Robert Gates was the director of the CIA back in the early '90s. Now he's defense secretary.
But, again, he doesn't really have a dog in the fight. You know, he was well gone from the CIA when...
SANCHEZ: Right.
LAWRENCE: ... this was taking place and this was years before he took over for Donald Rumsfeld.
And I think he also said, in addition to his concern for those CIA officers, he talked about a fear that this may have a backlash in the Middle East, that this may impact some of the troops who are now fighting in those war zones.
But he did also say that pretending that we could hold all this and keep it a secret, even if we wanted to, was probably unrealistic. And he thought that, with all the congressional investigations and the lawsuits that are possibly out there, that this was just inevitable that it was going to come out at some point.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know, it's interesting, because I think there's a take here, there's a certain take here that I picked up yesterday with Colonel Karpinski that this release of information is in defense of the troops, in defense of the troops, not -- not at the expense of the troops, but we're going to be picking that up in just in just a little bit.
Chris, thanks so much, as usual...
LAWRENCE: You're welcome.
SANCHEZ: ... for watching things there at the Pentagon for us.
Let's go now to A.B. Stoddard. She's covered the Hill as a journalist since the early 1990s.
A.B., thanks so much for being with us.
A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "THE HILL": Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: What are the chances that any of those names that I mentioned will ever be summoned to testify in any of these torture cases? And, again, in case you didn't catch some of these, Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Dick Cheney, three-star generals, President George W. Bush.
STODDARD: Well, Congress, as you know, is a co-equal branch of government and oversight is one of its key duties and roles.
And as much as President Obama does not want to enter into any kind of retribution, looking back, feeding frenzy, anything, he wanted to release the memos and move on, as much as he doesn't want to look back, it is very likely with all the appetite for this on Capitol Hill that something comes of this.
And that is the problem. Where do you stop? Do you just pick on the lawyers? Or do you call Dick Cheney and the former president in and ask them how culpable they are about this? Do you prosecute? These are the serious questions facing the Democratic Party now and facing the president.
SANCHEZ: That's an interesting question that you just raised. Where do you stop? Because it appears four years ago they had found a place to stop.
I want you and I want the viewers to now watch part of an interview that I did yesterday. You're very familiar with this woman, Colonel Janis Karpinski, once Brigadier General Karpinski. She told me yesterday -- remember, this is a woman who was humiliated and disgraced and she says scapegoated over this torture thing.
Let's -- let's do her the honor of hearing her, of listening to what she had to say here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Do you feel you were scapegoated?
BRIG. GENERAL JANIS KARPINSKI (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Absolutely, from the beginning.
And, I mean, I have never had a face-to-face conversation with anybody in my chain of command, and I will tell you that when I read those memorandums, when they were first released a few days ago, I did -- I did feel this sense of being able to exhale after five years, that this is what we have been saying from the very beginning, that, wait a minute, why are you inside pointing the finger at me? Why are you pointing the finger at these soldiers? There's a bigger story here.
SANCHEZ: You say harsher techniques. Was it torture?
KARPINSKI: Well, we see in the photographs certainly abuse of, you know, your privilege or your authority.
SANCHEZ: Well, was it torture?
KARPINSKI: I think it was torture, absolutely. You know, and I was never inside an interrogation room where they were conducting interrogations, but I read the memorandums many times over. Water-boarding is torture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here's what every -- you know, and, as you listen to that, A.B., I think you know where I'm going here. I think most people, most Americans know where I'm going.
How do we as Americans condone that soldiers, a general like this, was punished, humiliated, disgraced, her rank was taken down from brigadier general to colonel, that Lynndie England was prosecuted, that Charles Graner is in prison today for he can now argue are things that we learned yesterday were approved of, not only by his military superiors, but by people going all the way to the White House?
STODDARD: Well, and that's the problem. There's a fine line between trying to expose what we put our military personnel and our CIA agents through under the -- under the rules of the Bush era policies, and trying to air that out with something like a truth commission.
Or do we make a choice to sort of move on and let history work its will on the past? That's a decision, again, that President Obama's going to have to come to, that Attorney General Holder will have to come to, that the Congress will have to come to.
SANCHEZ: But this new information, does it not raise the bar? I mean, when it was just a decision as to, well, should we look back on what we may have made mistakes on as Americans and release that?
I could see half of Americans saying, you know, maybe we shouldn't, and the other half maybe saying, the ones that were anti- Bush, for example, saying, no, we definitely should go there.
But now that the names are named and we know that underlings paid the price and others maybe won't, doesn't that raise the bar for these politicians, for these congresspeople in Washington who are going to make this decision? Isn't it more apt to make people react -- like, look, as a matter of fact, let me share something with you. I'm going to let you see what the reaction is so far here on twitter.
Let's go. Robert, let's go ahead. Let's go. Let's share this with A.B. Let's go to our Twitter board, Irish saying to us: "Someone has to be the pawn in this chess game. The blame has to fall somewhere, as long as it's not at the top."
"Who should be punished? None. The memo writers and those who authorize the memos must be held to account first."
There you go again.
"When I was a military policemen, we were told that there is no excuse for following orders that are unlawful." So, obviously, Americans are tussling with this now as they get this new information. Does it raise the bar on the argument? Much different from what we were arguing about last week, for example.
STODDARD: It does.
But, again, what you're -- I mean, again, that is something that Democrats in Congress and the president and, again, Attorney General Holder are going to have to weigh. If you're say we're not going to touch agents, we're not going to touch military personnel, we're going to protect the CIA, we're just going to move on to the lawyers, I mean, if you're going to move up the chain to Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush, what is that going -- what have you wrought once you have done that?
And once you do that, even though they made these decisions who affected the people who followed their orders and in some cases really ruined their careers, what are you going to get out of -- there will be blood on the floor...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
STODDARD: ... for everybody, including the Democrats and the president, who's trying to pass health care, who's trying to fix the economy...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
STODDARD: ... who's trying to deal with an energy crisis. And so, that is a call that they're going to have to make as a party, whether or not to prosecute, go all the way to the top, a former administration of the opposite political party.
SANCHEZ: It's tough, you know, but, you know...
STODDARD: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... as I'm listening to you, I'm also thinking about this.
When these people were prosecuted, four years ago, the people who are now named in this document knew that what they did was what they were told to do. Why did they sit idly by and not defend them? I can't help but ask.
STODDARD: That is a question they will have to answer.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Yes. I'm -- I'm -- you know?
STODDARD: And Dick Cheney likes to go on TV a lot these days. Maybe someone will ask him that.
SANCHEZ: It doesn't seem fair to me. But I'm here to ask the questions.
By the way, we have got sound, I think, coming in from Robert Gibbs, as well, and Nancy Pelosi. We will be sharing that with you on this story as we go.
A.B., great discussion. Thanks so much.
STODDARD: Thank you, Rick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands off the truck!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hands off the truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick, I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You're not going to believe it, but there's an update on this story that left us all talking and opining for days. CNN security analyst Mike Brooks has got some new startling information on this. He's going to join me.
Also, unbelievable pictures of a huge coastal fire. This is in South Carolina. It's near Myrtle Beach. It's been burning homes. People are being asked to evacuate their homes. Thousands are fleeing. And, yes, if you have gone there and played golf or gone to any of the tourist destinations, they're threatened.
Also, you're not going to believe what likely killed those horses, the ones under some of the tarps you see there. This is kind of scary. We are going to have a live report on this story, an update.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Boy, so much stuff going on right now.
First of all, you're not going to believe what apparently killed those 21 polo horses in South Florida, new details and now even an apology on this story. This afternoon, Franck's Pharmacy in Ocala has issued a statement saying it incorrectly prepared the medication for the horses. It was a mistake.
Here's what they say. We have got it for you. You ready?
They have "concluded that the strength of the ingredient in the medication was incorrect." This is from Franck's. "We will cooperate fully with the authorities as they continue their investigations. And because of the ongoing investigations, we cannot discuss further details about the matter at this time" -- stop quote.
This pharmacy prepares medications, by the way, not only for animals, but for people. And it got us to thinking, what if, I mean, what if this happened to my daughter or your son or someone you love? Guess what? It's actually not unheard of.
CNN's medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, enlightens us now with the darker side of flubbed medications.
This is scary as hell.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thirty million dispensing errors every year in this country at outpatient pharmacies, 30 million dispensing errors. And, in hospitals, medication errors cause 98,000 deaths a year, up to 98,000, yes.
SANCHEZ: Ninety-eight thousand deaths.
COHEN: That's according to the Institute of Medicine.
SANCHEZ: That's crazy.
COHEN: It is crazy.
SANCHEZ: And it's funny that it takes 21 dead horses for us to suddenly look at something and say, well, what are the chances? Well, first of all, how does this happen?
COHEN: Well, it happens in a variety of ways.
Sometimes like in a hospital a doctor or nurse will grab the wrong medication. That's what happened to Dennis Quaid's son in Los Angeles last year.
SANCHEZ: Right.
COHEN: At the pharmacy sometimes -- I was in the pharmacy. I was second in line. The woman who was first in line got her prescription, walked out. Five minutes later, she is back, and she says, sorry, you gave me somebody else's medication. It happens.
SANCHEZ: In this case, it was about dosage, apparently. They prepared the wrong dosage, right?
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: Right. They prepared the wrong dosage, which also happens.
So what I always do when I go to the pharmacy, what I do is, I take it out. I say to the pharmacist -- first of all, I make sure it says "Elizabeth Cohen" on it. I say to the pharmacist, is this what you meant to prescribe me? Is this the dosage? I read it back to them, and then I put a pill in my hand and say, is this what it looks like?
SANCHEZ: Wow.
COHEN: I want to make sure -- and it sounds like it's a lot of work.
SANCHEZ: No, it's being thorough and it can save your life.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: Right. And it doesn't take that long to do.
SANCHEZ: How many died last year, again, 90...
COHEN: Up to 98,000 preventable deaths.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I am stunned by that number.
COHEN: And I talk about this in my "Empowered Patient" column, CNN.com/empoweredpatient. You can learn more about this.
SANCHEZ: Say it one more time, CNN...
COHEN: CNN.com/empoweredpatient, how you can prevent becoming a victim, because it does happen.
SANCHEZ: Great stuff. We're so glad we talked about this.
COHEN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Gave us a reason to learn something. Thanks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES ALAN FOX, CRIMINOLOGIST, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Here is a souvenir of his success at being an offender.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There are new reports revealing that the man accused in the craigslist killing may have kept souvenirs like panties from his victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
JOHNSTON: I want to be able to take him and do that kind of thing, do the father thing with him, and I can't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Then there's the baby daddy drama. It continues in the Palin family. Levi, lambasted by the Alaska governor, defends himself now live on "LARRY KING." We have got it. You will hear what he had to say.
Also, in two weeks, your 17-year-old daughter will be able to buy a morning-after pill without a prescription. What do you think of that? Your 17-year-old daughter can buy the prescription -- can buy the morning-after pill without a prescription.
Here's another important question. Is it analogous to an abortion or more analogous to a condom? We know. And we will tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Almost got 83,000 people on Twitter, more than 100,000 people following us throughout, and, boy, are they commenting today. Topics are hot.
Speaking of hot, we're keeping a close watch on South Carolina's coast, ablaze, as you see in these pictures, as a wind-fueled brushfire chars as many as 70 homes, threatens more in North Myrtle Beach and surrounding areas.
Governor Mark Sanford has declared a state of emergency for an area. It's roughly about, oh, 23 square miles of land that's already burned. More than 2,000 people have already been evacuated. Look at this stuff. School officials in North Myrtle Beach have been canceled -- have canceled classes, I should say. This happened mid-morning due to the smoky haze enveloping the area.
And the Air National Guard has now started an aerial assault on the flames. By the way, firefighters hope the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway is going to serve as some kind of natural firebreak, like a bridge, a water bridge, to stop it from crossing over to the other side. Officials say they still don't know what started this thing.
Now threatened, by the way, and this is interesting, because most of us have been here, right, with our kids, the hugely popular Myrtle Beach tourist destinations, like the numerous golf courses, yes, and the resorts threatened, not particularly impacted at this point yet.
We're watching this story carefully for you and we will bring you firsthand accounts as soon as we get them. Please stay tuned to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want me to arrest you, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want me to arrest you? Then you get in your truck and you move, plain and simple. I don't care. I'm telling you something. I'm giving you an order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, you knew we would have an update on this, caught on video. It's an update on the officer seen in this video who many say went too far and what's happened to him as a result.
Also, there's new information on the man accused in the craigslist killing, reports that he may have kept souvenirs from his victim. His wife says he wouldn't hurt a fly. Was he possibly leading a double life? Duh.
Also, could this happen to you? Or do you think that you know your man too well to have him do something like this to you? You think so, huh? Stick around. We have got a special report on this just for you.
And then the morning-after pill that your 17-year-old daughter will now be able to buy without a prescription, so says a federal judge. What do you say?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, my name is Felicia Motin (ph). I'm calling from Rantoul, Illinois.
And I think that if we're still responsible for them at 17 years old, then we should be given notification about anything to do with them, with our children.
Thank you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: A lot of pharmacological information coming at us, including the comments that are coming from you. Did you like the way I pronounced that word, pharmacological?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: I liked that. I was impressed.
SANCHEZ: You try that, pharmacological.
BROOKS: Pharmacological.
SANCHEZ: Very good, Mike Brooks.
BROOKS: There you go.
SANCHEZ: All right, here we go. Let's go to MySpace.
"Well, that pharmacy might as well close its doors now. It will never survive the lawsuits." She's commenting obviously on the 21 dead polo horses.
And then let's flip it around, Robert, if we can. Let's go over to Twitter. Here's another comment coming in to us. This is on the idea that a 17-year-old can now go and buy the morning-after pill. Ready?
"If they're old enough to have sex, then they should be old enough to buy the morning-after pill." One opinion. I'm sure the others are varied.
Now this. There's new information on the accused craigslist killer. Police say he reportedly also kept mementos, items from victims. He lived the life of a clean-cut medical student and is now being accused in the killing of at least one woman. But his fiancee says this guy couldn't possibly hurt anyone.
This has many of us thinking, was he leading a double life? If so, why didn't she suspect anything, his fiancee, that is?
Here's a special report by CNN's Erica Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the face of serious charges leveled against her fiance, Megan McAllister insists Phil Markoff is incapable of hurting a fly. His attorney Markoff is not guilty.
But what if Markoff is eventually found guilty? If that were to happen, and if it turns out he was leading a dangerous double life, wouldn't many people ask how a woman could be engaged to such a man and not know?
JEFFREY GARDERE, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Even though she was in an intimate relationship with him, emotionally, if not physically, she may not have had the wherewithal to know that this was someone who could have had some serious pathology.
HILL: There's Amber Frey, former girlfriend of Scott Peterson, who was convicted in 2004 of killing his wife, Laci Peterson, and their unborn son.
AMBER FREY, FORMER GIRLFRIEND OF SCOTT PETERSON: Scott told me he was not married. We did have a romantic relationship.
HILL: There's also the wife of Dennis Rader, the so-called BTK killer. A church elder and Boy Scout leader, he terrorized Kansas for 31 years, murdering 10 people. But, throughout the killing spree, his wife, Paula, raised two children with him.
There is also the case of notorious serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy. And during part of Bundy's wave of violence, he was dated and even got engaged to a woman named Stephanie Brooks, who some say had an uncanny resemblance to many of his victims.
Jeff Gardere, a clinical and forensic psychologist who has studied these types of cases, say some women are simply susceptible to these killers and charmed into looking the other way.
GARDERE: I think what we have seen with some of these sociopaths are that some of them have been very handsome. They may have very good skills at manipulating women and manipulating the system.
The other thing that we often see in these sorts of cases where women are involved with very notorious men is that they are in denial as to what it is that they may see as very disturbing signs in their behavior.
HILL: And Dr. Gardere says there's actually a lesson here for everyone.
GARDERE: At the end of the day, you really need to know someone. You really need to know what they're capable of. You really need to know them in every arena of their lives. HILL: Erica Hill, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY KVIA)
SGT. RAUL RAMIREZ, EL PASO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Hands off the truck.
DARREN HUNT, ABC-7 NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I didn't do anything.
RAMIREZ: Get your hands off the truck.
HUNT: Rick, I'm not doing anything.
I'm not doing anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Rick, I'm not doing anything," he says. Well, should this officer -- the guy behind him there -- be on the force, desk job or no desk job?
There's a reason that I'm answering this -- or asking this question.
CNN's security analyst, Mike Brooks, has some new information that you need to know about, since so many of you have been digging on this story since we first brought it for you.
This new information is really cool, by the way.
And you're going to have it, right?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I have it.
SANCHEZ: You've got it nailed down?
BROOKS: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: We'll be right back.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You're seeing old Mikie Brooks there. And he's going to help us out with this segment, as usual.
This is the story that got thousands of you, by the way, contacting me about who's right and who's wrong when there's a confrontation between a citizen -- or, in this case, a journalist, who's also sill a citizen, by the way -- and a police officer and it gets out of control.
The reporter wants his photographer to shoot a traffic accident. The cop says, no, you can't. I'm ordering you to leave.
All right. I want you to watch this entire thing again. Make your decision, knowing that when you're done, our law enforcement guru over here -- all right, Mike Brooks -- is going to tell you about the new information that he's dug up.
Are you ready?
Let's go through this together.
Hit it Dan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY KVIA)
RAMIREZ: (INAUDIBLE) talking to (INAUDIBLE).
HUNT: I want to talk to guy real quick.
RAMIREZ: No, no, negative, sir.
You will get in your truck and move, OK?
HUNT: (INAUDIBLE) we're doing our job.
RAMIREZ: When you press that trigger, boy -- get in that...
(CROSSTALK)
RAMIREZ: Stay in your truck and move.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMIREZ: Get in your truck and move.
HUNT: He can shoot if he wants to.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMIREZ: Do you want me to arrest you, sir?
HUNT: No, I don't.
RAMIREZ: Do you want me to arrest you?
Then you get in your truck and you move. Plain and simple.
HUNT: (INAUDIBLE).
RAMIREZ: I don't care. I'm telling you something. I'm giving you an order.
HUNT: Do you know what, I didn't do anything.
RAMIREZ: Do you want to get arrested?
HUNT: No. RAMIREZ: OK.
HUNT: All right. We'll go. I'll go. Fine, I'll go.
RAMIREZ: You know what, you're not going.
HUNT: I'm not resisting.
RAMIREZ: You're not going.
Sir, get in your truck and go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) We're just going to go.
RAMIREZ: What?
HUNT: Look, I don't want to cause any problems.
RAMIREZ: No, you are. You're going to jail now.
HUNT: We're going. Come on. Come on, bro, we're going.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: We're going, bro.
RAMIREZ: No, you're not.
HUNT: It's cool.
RAMIREZ: No, you're going with me.
HUNT: Why?
I just told you...
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Are you looking for...
(CROSSTALK)
RAMIREZ: I need a unit for interference with (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, I can get the truck and pick him up.
RAMIREZ: Go get in the truck before you go, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you let him go?
RAMIREZ: Get your hands off the truck.
HUNT: I didn't do anything.
RAMIREZ: Get your hands off the truck. HUNT: Rick, I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything, sir. I haven't done a thing. I'm just trying to leave, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me get the microphone.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I'm not doing anything.
RAMIREZ: Down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going. I'm taking off.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, wait, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I didn't do anything.
RAMIREZ: Put your hands behind your back. Put your hands behind your back. Sit down and shut up.
HUNT: I was leaving.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: You're hurting my arms.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
He's our security analyst and a former D.C. police officer -- detective, actually -- and more, I'm sure.
Mike Brooks is joining us now.
I don't want to get into the argument with you about who's wrong or who's right yet...
BROOKS: Right.
SANCHEZ: ...because I think you can make a case for both of them.
BROOKS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: The cop's got a scene, he gave the guy an order, the guy wouldn't leave, the cop was a little overaggressive, fine. We'll leave that alone.
We've now got information on this particular police officer that seems to say that there's a trend here.
How big of a how big of a problem...
BROOKS: Well...
SANCHEZ: First of all, what's the information?
Give it to us.
BROOKS: Well, he's an 18-year -- he's an 18-year veteran of the El Paso Police Department. Over those 18 years, he has 12 complaints, which, you know, anybody can come in and file a complaint, anywhere from unprofessional conduct to -- for violation of rules and procedures. And just last year he...
SANCHEZ: Has he ever been suspended?
SANCHEZ: Last year he was suspended for violating procedures and neglecting duties. And he was given a written reprimand for unprofessional conduct.
OK.
SANCHEZ: All right.
BROOKS: So what does this all mean?
But keep in mind, during his 18 years, he also has numerous commendations from citizens for quick response, hard work and dedication to duty.
So you're going to weigh these two.
During this investigation...
SANCHEZ: As I...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Go back and take a look and see...
SANCHEZ: No, but I...
BROOKS: ...you know, what exactly was involved.
SANCHEZ: Look, I agree with you on complaining, but it could -- my goodness, if CNN...
BROOKS: Oh, tell me about it.
SANCHEZ: ...fired any one of us for the complaints we get, I mean, you know, you can go to Twitter right now and find a million of them, right, on me and you and everybody else. So leaving that aside -- anybody can complain about anybody.
BROOKS: Sure. SANCHEZ: The question is, was action taken against him by his own company, in this case, the police department?
And it was, as I understand, three or four different times. So they found that the complaint was valid.
How important is that with police officers?
I want to know.
BROOKS: Right. Well, and this is under investigation. This...
SANCHEZ: Right.
BROOKS: ...what we just saw is being looked into by their internal affairs. And they're going to take a look at his conduct in the past to see exactly, for each of these complaints, what was involved in these complaints.
Was there any physical abuse, these kind of things?
Now, in this particular case, we didn't see, before they started rolling, if he had told him to move already. Because I didn't realize (INAUDIBLE)...
SANCHEZ: Oh, no, no. Look, look I...
BROOKS: An overturned truck could be a hazardous material (INAUDIBLE).
SANCHEZ: I agree with you. And once he...
BROOKS: So...
SANCHEZ: ...gives an order and says you've got to leave, you've got to leave.
BROOKS: Right. And he's assigned right now to desk duty.
SANCHEZ: Let me tell you what viewers are saying.
BROOKS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Let me -- here we go. Speaking of desk duty, Robert, if you can flip that thing around. Let's go over here and get a little shot of the MySpace thing.
You ready?
Take a read with this, Mike, with me and tell me if you agree: "Hey, Rick, if this cop has a past on being this aggressive to civilians and reporters, he should not just get sent to desk duty, but leave with pay or fired. He should be made an example of to those other bad cops who abuse their power. Can we say anger management?"
You know what's interesting here, you pick up a sense that a lot of viewers feel like this is a bit of a trend and that too many police departments don't tap it early enough.
BROOKS: Well, you know, they try to. But keep in mind, this guy is also -- he's a sergeant. That means he's a supervisor. He supervises other officers.
SANCHEZ: But what does that mean?
BROOKS: Well, that his -- his higher-ups, the lieutenants and captains, they should have -- they're going to want -- be the ones who are going to be dealing with him.
You know, did he violate any departmental orders here?
That remains to be seen.
Now, when he did put his hands on the reporter, he put -- the officer and the reporter against the truck and he told him to keep his hands there. Well, the officer -- he turned around and that's when he forcibly put him back.
Once it -- once somebody tells you to do something...
SANCHEZ: You've got to do it.
BROOKS: Good (INAUDIBLE)...
SANCHEZ: I get that. I get that.
BROOKS: Could this -- right in the beginning, could it have all been taken care of if they had -- if he had have gotten back in his truck and left?
Yes.
SANCHEZ: Crisis escalation or de-escalation. I think women are usually better than guys at that kind of thing, by the way. Just -- just -- just -- just an ad-lib.
Thank you, Mike.
BROOKS: Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Sanchez.
(LAUGHTER)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE")
KING: Was there ever a thought that you would not be the -- I mean not be the : Of that child?
LEVI JOHNSTON, EX-FIANCE OF BRISTOL PALIN, FATHER OF BRISTOL'S SON, TRIPP
No. I know I can go over there and see him. But it's -- now, you know, it's kind of an uncomfortable thing for me to go over there. You know, I want to be able to take him and do that kind of thing -- go do the father thing with him and I can't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The Palin family laundry continues being aired on national television. Levi goes on Larry to respond to what the Alaska governor was saying about him.
And that little small pill generating a huge controversy about 17-year-olds -- sex and contraceptives, a touchy, touchy subject. We're touching it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Some kudos there for Mike Brooks, huh?
Thanks a lot.
You may recall, earlier this month, that Levi Johnston kicked off a media blitz on the talk show circuit. He told hosts like Tyra Banks about his use, or lack thereof, of contraceptives with Bristol Palin and tales of that their teen love that has resulted in a baby -- a baby named Tripp, by the way.
Well, the governor of Alaska didn't much like that and went so far as to issue an official statement on gubernatorial signature and memorandum -- all in response to the 17-year-old, mind you.
Sarah Palin's representative said: "It is unfortunate that Levi finds it more appealing to exploit his previous relationships with Bristol than to contribute to the well-being of the child."
It started getting ugly.
Well, Levi's televised defense now continues. Last night, Larry King asked what some of us want to know -- why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE")
KING: If you're not doing interviews like this, why?
L. JOHNSTON: I just thought it would be a great chance to come out and, you know, tell my side of the story. And I think a lot of people have the wrong impression. I'm not out here looking for fame, I'm just trying to get my -- my story out there and let the people know what's -- you know, what's really going on and...
KING: Now what was it like for you dating in the atmosphere of the governor's daughter?
L. JOHNSTON: They always treated me like a son. I mean they were -- they were real nice to me. And I thought of her as like my second mother.
KING: Was there ever a thought that you would not be the -- I mean not be the : Of that child?
L. JOHNSTON: No.
KING: So what happened?
JOHNSTON: I know can go over there and see him. But it's -- now, you know, it's kind of an uncomfortable thing for me to go over there. You know, I want to be able to take him and do that kind of thing, go do the father thing with him and I can't.
KING: Have you spoken to the governor?
L. JOHNSTON: Not since -- I haven't talked to her for quite a while, actually.
KING: Is there any chance the two of you could get together again?
L. JOHNSTON: You know, I don't see that ever happening. I just hope that we can come to an understanding and become friends and raise this baby together.
KING: Why don't you think Levi can see his son or he can see him, but once on occasion and it has to be in the house?
SHERRY JOHNSTON, LEVI'S MOTHER: I don't know. Things started changing different, I would say, I noticed in November.
KING: Are you hesitant to force action?
Do you feel that you'll get the wrath...
S. JOHNSTON: Well, I guess we're going to...
KING: ...of the governor or what?
S. JOHNSTON: Well, yes. I mean we don't want to -- we want to keep this on the lowdown and not have, you know, not start trouble. But, obviously, if things don't change, that's our next action when we get back is to go forward with that, I guess.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: A state of emergency is being declared now in part of South Carolina. This is a developing story that we've been following for you, as fires burn near popular tourist spots -- popular to many of us, by the way, including Myrtle Beach.
We're going to have the latest from there.
And then this question that many of you have been commenting on -- 17-year-olds will now be able to buy the morning after pill.
What do you have to say about that?
We'll bring you the story and the reaction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: And I'm Rick Sanchez.
Welcome back to the World Headquarters of CNN.
The FDA says the emergency contraceptive pill, better known as Plan B, will soon be available to 17-year-old girls in the next few weeks without a prescription. A ruling last month set a new legal precedent, which previously required 17-year-olds to get a doctor's note to get this Plan B pill.
Anti-abortion activists aren't happy with the latest ruling.
Abortion rights activists are hailing it as better access to contraceptives.
Is there a happy medium here to be found in this ensuing debate?
Again, remember, it's called the morning after pill. And now 17- year-olds will be able to get it without a prescription. That's the upshot here.
Let's get into this debate.
Wendy Wright is the president of Concerned Women for America.
She joins us live from Washington.
Cecil Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, is live in our New York studios.
My thanks to both of you ladies for being with us.
CECILE RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD FEDERATION OF AMERICA: Thank you, Rick.
WENDY WRIGHT, PRESIDENT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: The first question, isn't preventing unwanted teen pregnancies a good thing, whether or not you agree with the methodology in this case, either one of you?
RICHARDS: Absolutely, Rick. I think that this decision by the FDA to expand access to emergency birth control for 17-year-olds is a good thing because it's better for the health care of -- of young women. We have an epidemic proportion of unintended teen pregnancy in this country. And I think it's good that the FDA is taking this issue seriously. It's about time.
SANCHEZ: Should we -- what do you say from the other side?
WRIGHT: Well, two prominent advocates for easy access to the morning after pill admitted in 2007 in a medical journal that, in fact, making the drug nonprescription does not reduce pregnancies or abortions. And they also admitted that the effectiveness of the drug had been substantially overstated. In essence, it doesn't work as well as they thought. So that's probably the reason why there has been no reduction in pregnancies or abortions.
Now, the FDA, in making this decision, violated its own standards, because it made a high dose of a drug available without a prescription when a low does of the very same drug requires a prescription because women...
SANCHEZ: So is that...
WRIGHT: ...need medical oversight when they take this drug.
SANCHEZ: Is that the problem with it, do you think, the dosage?
Because a lot of people are complaining -- you know, there's even the argument by some that this is akin to an abortion.
But parentally, it's not, right?
RICHARDS: That's right.
SANCHEZ: This is actually more akin to using a condom, for example, right?
WRIGHT: Well, the manufacturer...
RICHARDS: It's really...
WRIGHT: The manufacturer of the drug says it works in three different ways -- delaying ovulation, preventing fraternization or inhibiting implantation -- an incomplete sentence -- implantation of an embryo.
If it does work in that third way, then it would end a new life. So, at the very least...
SANCHEZ: But...
WRIGHT: ...we need to be honest with women so they can make their own choice if they want to take something that may end a new life.
SANCHEZ: But wait a minute. Now -- now you've made it a little bit more fuzzy than I thought it was going in.
Does -- does this stop -- we're not killing an...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We're not destroying an embryo here, we're getting -- we're stopping the embryo from being fertilized is what we're actually doing.
RICHARDS: Yes.
WRIGHT: No, no, no, no. RICHARDS: Rick, you're...
SANCHEZ: Or the egg from...
RICHARDS: Wendy is actually completely wrong.
SANCHEZ: ...the egg from being fertilized.
Go ahead.
RICHARDS: Right. Wendy is actually completely wrong on the science. And the frustrating thing here, I think, is that groups like the Concerned Women for America oppose birth control, they oppose every effort...
WRIGHT: Oh, that is not true.
RICHARDS: They have opposed every effort to do -- to take a really serious look at what is a very big problem in this country. The United States has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the Western industrialized world.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
RICHARDS: We have to take this issue seriously. And I think for most parents -- because I know you've -- you've raised this issue, like how do parents feel?
But I'm a parent of two teenagers. I think all of us hope and expect that our teens to come to us to talk about birth control, to talk about sexual activity.
But the truth is we're not doing enough and that there are teens out there who are getting pregnant, who aren't getting birth control, who aren't getting emergency birth control and I think we all...
SANCHEZ: We get it.
RICHARDS: What we all want as parents is to say we don't want more teen pregnancy in this country.
SANCHEZ: Well, I think most people just want to be educated. I know I do. I have a daughter.
WRIGHT: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: And this is something that we all need to consider and have conversations with our families about.
RICHARDS: That's correct.
SANCHEZ: Ladies, Wendy, Cecil -- Cecile, thanks to both of you for being with us.
RICHARDS: Cecile.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
RICHARDS: Absolutely.
Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: More than 15,000 acres burning near popular Myrtle Beach in South Carolina. We're all over it. We're going to show you the pictures and talk to some folks there.
And then you, me and Twitter get more attention. I'll tell you who's talking about us this time. I didn't even know about this one. Surprise, surprise, says my staff.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back.
I'm Rick Sanchez.
Let's do something here. Let's try and revisit that battle going on right now along the South Carolina coast. I've been trying update you on this thing -- we've been trying to update you on this story since we first started this newscast. A raging wildfire, it's being described as, charring thousands of acres, numerous homes. Thousands of residents have been fleeing from those homes. There have been evacuations.
Let's go right to Horry County. That's in South Carolina.
The public information officer there is Lisa Bourcier. And joins us now to bring us up to date on what's going on.
Lisa, are you there?
LISA BOURCIER, HORRY COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER: I'm here, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right.
How close are you to getting this under control?
BOURCIER: We've still got a long ways to go.
SANCHEZ: Really?
BOURCIER: It's going to be a long night and probably a long day tomorrow, as well.
SANCHEZ: Is the weather helping you or hurting you at this point?
BOURCIER: The wind is better than it was yesterday, but the humidity is low and the wind keeps shifting on us, which is making it very difficult to fight the fire.
SANCHEZ: How many people have been evacuated?
BOURCIER: We're about 2,500, but we may have some more evacuations throughout the evening that we've got to monitor pretty closely.
SANCHEZ: Good lord, 2,500 people have had to leave their homes?
Is there any chance, when they get back, those homes are going to be gone?
BOURCIER: We, at this point, believe there's 40 homes that have been completely consumed -- probably 100 plus damaged. But, again, as this keeps shifting, you know, those numbers could change throughout the night.
SANCHEZ: How close is this -- you know, a lot of us -- because you're talking to us from a tourist destination.
BOURCIER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: So many of us have been to Myrtle Beach and that -- you know, that whole area. Especially...
BOURCIER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: ...especially those of love -- those of us who love to play golf...
BOURCIER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Guilty as charged.
How close is it to the, you know, the famed tourist area of Myrtle Beach...
BOURCIER: Short.
SANCHEZ: ...that so many people are having...
BOURCIER: This fire is located west of the Intercoastal Waterway. And if people are familiar with the Myrtle Beach area, the waterway is pretty close to the beach. But everything is contained west of the waterway. We have a lot of rural areas -- a lot of preserved trust land that has been caught on fire. So it has been going across the trees, skipping. A lot of underbrush fire going on at the same time.
SANCHEZ: Wow!
BOURCIER: And when it jumped a major highway about 1:00 this morning, it did start to get closer to some residential areas, which is...
SANCHEZ: Well... BOURCIER: ...which is what we're concerned with.
SANCHEZ: We'll pray for a whole lot of rain overnight and maybe that will help -- help put things -- a good job out there.
BOURCIER: We could use it.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I bet you could.
BOURCIER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Our best to the folks there in -- north of Myrtle Beach.
Wolf Blitzer is standing by now to bring us up to date on all the things that are going on in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- you know, you're going to have a great show today. I mean there's some hot political news going on -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, a lot more coming out on the interrogation techniques.
What's going on?
Will there be some sort of full scale 9/11 Commission of inquiry?
Will there be hearings on the Hill?
We're all over that story, as I know you have been, Rick.
Also, Pakistan -- they're moving closer and closer, the Taliban.
What's going on with this nuclear-armed nation?
We're all over that story.
And finally, we're going to take our viewers inside the first 100 days of the White House. Our colleagues at "Time" magazine have some unique photos. They're going to see the president and the first family in ways that maybe they haven't seen them before.
All that, Rick, and a lot more coming up at the top of the hour.
SANCHEZ: That's a good tease, in ways they maybe haven't seen them before.
Hmmm, what could that be?
Wolf Blitzer, we'll look forward to your newscast, man.
Thanks.
There's a new use for Twitter by an unlikely source. I think you'll find this one kind of funny. We did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: We can't bring you this "Colbert Report" about Twitter.
You know why?
Because I talked too much and I took up all the time. It's not my staff's fault, I swear.
Wolf Blitzer is standing by now with "THE SITUATION ROOM".
Maybe he'll get it in -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rick, thank you.
Happening now, Pakistan wakes up to a terror threat within its own borders that could endanger the rest of the world. Troops now rushing to an area where Taliban fighters appear to be firming their grip.
Also, why President Obama is worried about your credit card bill. He's confronting lenders about soaring costs and shady practices that are putting the squeeze on cardholders.
And very candid glimpses of the president's first 100 days in office.
