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HHS Provides Swine Flu Update; Chrysler to Merge with Fiat; Pig Farmers Say "Swine Flu" Name is Faulty; Medical Experts: Flu Virus Not Highly Contagious Yet; Some in Montana Want Guantanamo Bay Prisoners

Aired April 30, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Forget the frenzy. We're pushing forward on the facts and the worldwide fallout from 2009, H1N1. You know it as swine flu.

Chrysler heads down a road it's been trying to avoid. It's not going away, but it is on track for an overhaul, with foreign parts.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, and you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Well, when it comes to swine flu, you don't have to be infected to be affected. The virus still on the move while the World Health Organization raises its pandemic threat level to five on a scale of six.

Now, in the U.S., more than 100 confirmed case, and this hour some 80,000 kids are home from school in just Texas alone. Pity the pig farmers, too. You can't get the flu by eating pork, but hog prices are falling. Industry loss is rising and questions still growing.

What should we do? What should we not do? Is bird flu really worse than regular flu? Well, senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here for us to answer all those questions.

OK. I'm told we're going to go live now to the Health and Human Services, which is holding a live news conference right now. Let's go ahead and listen in.

(MUSIC)

PHILLIPS: All right. As you can see, they're actually setting up for that news conference right now. We will take it as soon as they begin at the Health and Human Services there.

But I understand Ted Rowlands is on the phone with us from -- tell me exactly where you are, Ted? Are you still there in the Mexican capital?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, we are, Kyra. We're in Mexico City now. We've returned from La Gloria, this tiny village where many people think this originated, this virus originated.

We went there to talk to the people that live there. And they are convinced that they went through this about a month ago, where literally half the town -- it's a very small town -- but about 500 people, they say, were sick with this influenza that turned into pneumonia-like symptoms. The state government came in. They declared a state of emergency at the time and thought it was a breakout of pneumonia.

They did give people antibiotics. People recovered.

Now they're saying there may be a second wave there. So when we were there, there were folks from the Mexican health -- national health department going door-to-door. This is a very impoverished village. Banging on doors and giving people medicine and checking on their well being.

Safe to say, back here in Mexico City all of the precautions continue. Public gatherings have been cancelled. Today Felipe Calderon has urged people to stay in their homes for the next few days as we go into the Cinco de Mayo holiday weekend.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Ted, are you able to hear me still?

ROWLANDS: Yes, I am.

PHILLIPS: OK. We're waiting for this Health and Human Services news conference right now. So, I want to talk to you just for a second while we're waiting to take that live, with regard to where you are in Mexico.

Sources are telling me within the CDC -- and I'm sorry because I heard part of your report, not all of it; so correct me if you've already said this -- are telling me that there are inspectors from the CDC and also USDA down there in LaGuardia -- La Gloria, actually trying to investigate and find and trace where this virus began, actually testing hogs. Are you able to confirm that?

ROWLANDS: We are not able to confirm that. You know, we have heard the same thing. And there was also an indication that world health inspectors out of Rome were going to be coming out to La Gloria.

Meanwhile, you know, the Mexican government, and they claim that they have done their own investigations, and they didn't find anything in the pigs, at least, that they did test.

We've got the same thing from the partly-American-owned company that operates a large pig farm there. They said they tested; didn't find anything.

But obviously, there are other agencies that do want to get in there for independent confirmation, because there seems to be so much circumstantial evidence that this could have been ground zero and the beginning of the virus.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ted Rowlands, appreciate it so much. Thanks for rolling with the punches there.

We want to take you now live to the Health and Human Services, where that news conference has just begun.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, U.S. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: ... CDC.gov. There is an update on numbers of cases and what's happening around the country. We're in a dynamic situation, so it does change every day.

Dr. Chan raised -- with the World Health Organization increased the level to a Level 5, and I just want to assure the American public who is listening and watching that we've anticipated that. That just means additional resources will be made available, additional opportunities will be there for us to reach out to state and local partners but also around the world which is Dr. Chan's information.

And we are aggressively trying to both contain and stop the spread of this influenza. There are some schools who have taken individual action closely directs. And I think most importantly, people need to monitor and become informed about the spread of influenza.

We know, in a flu season, every year, we have millions of Americans get the flu, hundreds of thousands are hospitalized, and, unfortunately, we have about 36,000 deaths with seasonal flu. So we need to keep this operation in perspective in terms of we don't know quite how serious this is going to be. We don't know how widely it's going to spread. And we don't know precisely the results.

But we are well within the bounds of not only working aggressively to contain it but also beginning the process of developing a vaccine which will be ready to inoculate.

QUESTION: Obviously, a lot is going on.

SEBELIUS: A lot is going on.

QUESTION: All right. We're going to break down some of that throughout the broadcast. Let's just turn to Dr. Besser because you raised a number of things.

Dr. Besser, you did just give your update a short time ago. When people hear that number 109 confirmed cases in the United States, what does that mean?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Well, what that means is that we have 109 individuals who had flu-like symptoms and did what they should. We went and saw their doctor or called their doctor, got tested, and they are confirmed as having the H1N1 virus. We have those individuals in 11 different states.

And as we've all been saying, as we continue to look for cases, we expect that we're going to find them in more and more states. We're working with state and local health departments. They're investigating cases in many more states than have confirmed cases, and we expect, as we move forward, to see a wider spectrum of disease with some more severe cases as well.

QUESTION: All right. Let's talk about what does this change mean from the World Health Organization that we're now at five? What does it mean to us in the United States and to us as individuals. And when the World Health Organization says they have 148 cases worldwide, what database are they using? That seems out of phase with what we know right now.

BESSER: Right. I was pleased to see that the WHO had made this move. In the United States, it does not have an impact in that we have cases here within our borders and we're taking aggressive action to try and minimize the impact on people's health.

What it means for the world community, though is that countries around the world that haven't started their efforts around preparing for a new flu strain, it's time for them to wake up, pull out their plans, and think about what they would do if they had cases appearing in their own borders.

The number five means that, according to the World Health Organization, a pandemic is imminent. And that means that this strain is spreading, and it is causing disease in more and more places. It's basically what that number means.

QUESTION: So I know your message has been that the government is responding aggressively regardless of what the designation is. Correct?

BESSER: That's right. Whenever we see a new infection, whether it's flu or another one, we take aggressive steps to try and understand what's going on and implement a rational, smart control measures. And those measures change as we learn -- as we learn more. This is a situation, like others, in that we take what we know, we implement measures, and we adjust as we get for information.

QUESTION: Secretary Napolitano, let me ask you something that we've -- I've heard from people. I'm sure you've heard this. Why isn't the United States closing its borders?

JANET NAPOLITANO, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, a couple of reasons. One is the epidemiologists, the CDC, the WHO all have said there's no utility to closing the border. The president, last night, likened it to closing the barn door after the horse already is out of the barn.

And, therefore, we're doing the things that make sense from the public health standpoint to protect the safety of the American people. So the real focus needs to be now on what do we do to reduce the spread of the disease within our borders. But closing the borders, in and of themselves, won't have that kind of an impact.

QUESTION: We should note, Secretary, that (INAUDIBLE) first, for example, we've been doing these broadcasts for a year now, and some people may not appreciate the complexity of a lot of these decisions because, for example, you mentioned the schools. Why would one school district close down while others are still open? Can you just briefly explain that?

SEBELIUS: Sure. Well, first of all, I think that idea that we're here on this kind of broadcast is very important because one of the things we're trying to do is get information to the public, to parents. I'm a mother. I know that there are parents out there thinking, you know, what should I be doing. Can I keep my children safe? How do I, you know, how do I care for an elderly parent? What are the proper protocols.

So having this kind of dialogue, I think, is enormously helpful.

Closing schools is primarily a local decision. And what the Center for Disease Control's Dr. Besser has done is to ask school districts if a school has an identified case, a confirmed case, that that particular school is advised to close. Close for about a week. Make sure that the cases aren't spreading. Try to contain it.

But as he is good at pointing out, that doesn't mean send your kids to the mall. What we're trying to do is control group settings when there's a confirmed case and we figure that students within an individual school may have come in contact with one another. So it's really a social isolation a bit. It's taking a step back.

Don't go to the movies. Don't, you know, try and contain this. It doesn't mean that the districts should shut down. That has happened a couple of -- a couple of school districts have decided that they would take broader measures.

PHILLIPS: All right. You're watching live a news conference there with Secretary Sebelius there of Health and Human Services, talking about the bird flu [SIC] right now. If you want to continue to watch that, you can go to CNN.com/live.

Meanwhile, we're talking -- or swine flu, rather. There's no sign of swine flu on pig farms so far. A Texas farmer will tell us about the precautions that he's taking.

Also, Chrysler has been on the road for more than 80 years. Now heading for major change, of course. Even the president is weighing in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, ups, downs, everything in between. Chrysler has made all kinds of history over the past 80-plus years. Now it's about to make more. Buckle up. We're taking you on the road already traveled and the road ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, it's been struggling for years, and it's now filed for bankruptcy, but Chrysler just got a new lease on life, according to President Obama.

Just last hour he confirmed the stalled automaker will merge with Fiat, a deal that will allow Chrysler to stay in business. Plus, the president assures us every dime of taxpayer bailout money dumped into Chrysler will be repaid before Fiat moves in.

Chrysler was essentially forced into bankruptcy by some of its creditors, which refused requests to cut the automaker's debt.

Now, that didn't sit well with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: While many stakeholders made sacrifices and worked constructively, I have to tell you, some did not. In particular, a group of investment firms and hedge funds decided to hold out for the prospect -- prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout. They were hoping that everybody else would make sacrifices, and they would have to make none. Some demanded twice the return that other lenders were getting.

I don't stand with them. I stand with Chrysler's employees and their families and communities. I stand with Chrysler's management, its dealers and its suppliers. I stand with the millions of Americans who own and want to buy Chrysler cars. I don't stand with those who held out when everybody else is making sacrifices.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, of course, the real story here isn't about cars. It's about the people who build them, the people who sell them, and the people who buy them. And where Chrysler goes, for better or for worse, they go, too.

Our Richard Roth is at a Chrysler dealership outside New York City.

Richard, what's the mood there on the showroom floor?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were watching as a group of sales people here gathered around a television set as President Obama made his remarks. And I heard something you don't always hear inside a car dealership, which was a large round of applause, especially when the president noted the Fiat merger development.

I have with us here one of the major sales people at Larchmont Chrysler here in Larchmont, New York, Richard Ruggiero.

What does this mean for you, as someone who has to move these vehicles?

RICHARD RUGGIERO, CHRYSLER SALESMAN: It means a lot for us. It shows that all parties -- there were great negotiations between Fiat and United Auto Workers -- have come to an agreement and our president was supporting us and backing up the product with the government warranties and (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It means a tremendous thing for our product the way we are situated now.

ROTH: How often do you watch a president on television speaking, as we hear the applause and watch you applauding the president? That doesn't happen often here, right?

RUGGIERO: No, it doesn't happen often. But it's great to see a president in touch with the American people and worried about the industry and Chrysler, an American product.

ROTH: Now there will be a lot of critics out there who say, "Listen, there were cars that were not made right, and it's American capitalism. Chrysler should have failed, and let's start fresh."

RUGGIERO: Well, that's -- you know, you're going to have views of both points of people and objections and so forth and so on. But the main thing is the focus to get an icon like Chrysler back on the map. And that's our concern.

And we have support of our government, our president, and the people in Fiat and Daimler Chrysler giving up their share and supporting billions of dollars into the corporation, which means a lot.

ROTH: It's early. Any calls, anyone saying, "I'm interested in new products. I'd like to come down now. I've got more confidence in Chrysler"?

RUGGIERO: Yes, we do. We received calls today. I even sold a Wrangler Jeep as someone came out of a Honda Pilot. And are very happy with the American product. And there are people who are rising to occasions, now supporting the American product. So I see a lot of positively -- notes on this.

ROTH: Richard Ruggiero of the Chrysler, Larchmont, here. Thank you very much.

Kyra, optimism. Maybe it's been a while for that here in this car dealership. Back to you.

PHILLIPS: I think we all need it right now when it comes to the car industry. Thanks, Richard.

Well, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, they're all iconic names in the history of the American car industry. And now they're driving down a bumpy road toward an uncertain future.

Mike Dushane, the executive editor of CarandDriver.com. He joins us live from Ann Arbor, Michigan.

You know, Mike, Chrysler has been in trouble before, right?

MIKE DUSHANE, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CARANDDRIVER.COM: Chrysler narrowly avoided bankruptcy once before, but a car company like this entering bankruptcy is pretty unprecedented. There's a heck of a lot of risk here that lies ahead for Chrysler through this process.

PHILLIPS: So how did Chrysler pull out in the past? And -- and do you think how they did it in the past is how they should do it now?

DUSHANE: Well, that would be nice, but it was a very different situation then. In the past, a much smaller government loan allowed them to pull through, and a number of very good segment-busting, class-leading products allowed them to have the sales to regain revenue and market share.

The two major issues that Chrysler faces now that, frankly, President Obama glossed right over, are one, the product pipeline: namely that they don't have any compelling or segment leading vehicles or even segment competing vehicles now; and the Fiat merger or partnership. Even assuming that it goes off as planned, make no mistake, will take years to bring new vehicles to the U.S. This is not a 2009 or 2010 solution for them. This is a far-off thing in the future.

So one issue is the product pipeline. The other is that, because they are now in bankruptcy, there are hundreds of potential entities that could stall the bankruptcy process. Obama simply saying that it's going to be a surgical bankruptcy doesn't make it so. He cannot control the judiciary who now manages this process.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, point made about the product pipeline and just the time element here. And if you look at the merger of Daimler-Chrysler, I mean, that was a bit of a fiasco. So now we're hearing Fiat and thinking, "Hmm."

DUSHANE: Yes, the Daimler-Chrysler merger never produced the products that it was supposed to. And the few good products it did produce took many years to come to market.

Likewise, even assuming that Chrysler can pull through the bankruptcy process in a timely fashion and merge with Fiat as President Obama has indicated, it's going to be a long time before products can come to market. Fiat products are not certified or prepared for U.S. sale today.

PHILLIPS: So can Chrysler -- can the Chrysler brand survive?

DUSHANE: Right now Chrysler has a wing and a prayer. If they get a bankruptcy judge who is willing to perhaps go into uncharted waters in terms of speeding up the bankruptcy process and -- and simply overruling bond holders who are securitized, which is highly unlikely; but if they get a bankruptcy judge who does that and if the American public suddenly decides that these same Chrysler products that they haven't been buying, that they want to buy them and Chrysler starts to pick up market share, they may pull through. But those are a lot of "ifs," and there's a heck of a lot of risk.

PHILLIPS: Mike Dushane, CarandDriver.com executive editor. Appreciate your time.

DUSHANE: Thanks.

PHILLIPS: So what happens when Fiat takes over Chrysler? What kinds of cars will we see in the showroom? Poppy Harlow will be looking into that in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.

Loose lips sink ships, and loose bricks, along with a bunch of cracks. can sink a building quickly. Inspectors had warnings that this was coming. We're going to tell you where.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, this is all that's left of a five-story building in Manhattan. It fell apart in a New York minute. IReporter Meredith Meyer actually took these pictures for us. Bricks everywhere. Dusty debris in the street and on the cars.

Thankfully, this happened before the morning rush hour. The building was vacant, and there have been no reports of injuries so far.

Inspectors wrote the place up just yesterday, we're told, because of loose bricks and cracks.

Flood watches and warnings in effect today from Chicago to the Great Plains. Meteorologist Reynolds Wolf is tracking all that for us and the other parts of the country where that severe weather exists. We will go to him in the CNN weather center as soon as he gets his mike on.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, worried about the swine flu? Things could be worse. You could be a pig farmer. We're going to talk to one live from Texas who doesn't want to lose the farm over this flu frenzy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, right now, at least 15 states have at least one confirmed case of swine flu, though Washington and the World Health Organization no longer call it swine flu because you don't catch it by eating pork and because it's actually a mixture of swine, bird and human flu. They're using the technical name now, 2009 H1N1.

Well, whatever you call it, it's not making most of its victims terribly sick, but it is spreading a lot of fear. Dozens of U.S. school districts have called off classes. And in Mexico, where the outbreak began, the government's suspending so-called non-fundamental services and urging most businesses to close.

So, what exactly is this flu? As I mentioned, the government calls it by its technical name now, H1N1, and it's a version of the virus that originates in pigs, and normally that's where it begins and ends. But in rare cases, it can spread to humans, and that happens when the virus genes mutate. That's what we've seen in this case.

In fact, the current strain also has genes in common with bird flu and human flu. And as you might guess, this is not a good time to be a pig farmer. Even though you can't get swine flu from eating pork, pig farmers face falling prices and an uncertain future. Arezow Doost of CNN affiliate KXTA visited a Texas pig farm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AREZOW DOOST, KTXA-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Fortner farm in Anna...

J.R. FORTNER, TEXAS PIG FARMER: This is one of our older sows. She's had about three litters.

DOOST: ... the barn's packed with J.R. Fortner's favorite white meat.

FORTNER: I'm actually, I guess, an advertisement for eating pork, because that's about all I eat.

DOOST: J.R. raises about 100 pigs and says he's around them all the time.

FORTNER: I feel great other than I'm nervous for being on TV.

DOOST: He does admit he cringes every time he hears someone say "swine flu."

FORTNER: I'm kind of scared what it's going to do to the market, especially with what you saw the cattle market do when the mad cow came out. The bottom kind of fell out in the process, went to the floor.

DOOST: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has made it clear that you cannot get swine flu from eating pork. But J.R. says it might be too late.

(on camera): Fornter's keeping a close eye on his pigs. He's not letting any visitors come on the farm, especially those who've recently come back from Mexico.

(voice-over): J.R. also makes everyone wear plastic booties.

FORTNER: Makes sure that any germs that are on your feet are not getting into my barn.

DOOST: He hopes the scare is short term...

FORTNER: I'm still eating pork, and it's an everyday thing for me.

DOOST: ... and prays swine flu is replaced with another term.

In Anna, Arezow Doost, CBS 11 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, J.R. Fortner is taking some time off from his farm chores to talk with us today. He's joining us live from Dallas.

So, J.R., I was having a chance to chat with you. And maybe first, let me ask you, it's not affecting you right now, you said, but you are afraid about all this hype and how it could affect your bottom line. Tell me how.

FORTNER: I think if it keeps going the direction that we're going, and the fear stays out there, it's just going make our prices fall lower and lower. I think the one thing that could help in this situation is media like you all that are out there putting out the message that you can eat pork, and pork is safe to eat. And I think that's what we really need to let people know.

PHILLIPS: And that is what we've been trying to explain. Obviously, and you know, it becomes very confusing. And you were even saying, too, that there's different kinds of pigs in different parts of the region, and that's why it's not going to affect all pig farmers. Explain that to me.

FORTNER: Well, basically, what I was saying, it might affect all pig farmers, but it won't affect -- hopefully, it will not affect the show pig producers as rough, because of the fact that we sell our pigs to kids for exposition at pig shows, basically. Not as many of our animals go straight to market. We do have a part of it that goes there, but hopefully it won't affect me as much as it's affecting some of the guys in the Midwest.

PHILLIPS: Got it. Now, we're seeing, you know, the numbers, the pork industry, we're seeing the numbers drop on Wall Street, and we're hearing about hogs being slaughtered across the country, even outside of the U.S. Are you afraid at all that you might have to, you know, might be forced to do that. And if not, do you have other buddies within the industry that are calling you up, oh, man, J.R., you wouldn't believe what's happened to me?

FORTNER: I think a lot of it is just good general heart health and good keeping of your animals. Keep an eye if anything's sick, getting it -- taking it to the vet, getting it checked out or getting it medicated. In our industry, with the confinement that a lot of these animals are in, it can cause a disease to spread fast and rapid. So, a good hog farmer is constantly keeping an eye on his animals for health issues.

PHILLIPS: You know, that's very good point because you mentioned, I saw in that piece there, that you said you're having people from the outside, no matter who comes on your pig farm, you have them wearing booties so they don't track in anything. What else your doing as preventative maintenance?

FORTNER: Currently, I'm not purchasing any animals from outside sources, trying to limit any animals -- new animals coming in. And if anything does come to the farm, make sure it has health papers and comes from a registered premises ID farm.

PHILLIPS: Got it. And anything else you want to say right now to the general public, especially because there you are in Texas. That's where we saw the one death of this swine flu. Anything on your heart and mind you just want to say from someone who could be directly affected?

FORTNER: Just for the people that directly affected?

PHILLIPS: Yes as in you.

FORTNER: Oh, in the swine industry. I'm sorry, I misunderstand what you're asking.

PHILLIPS: No, no, no. No, no. That's -- actually, I probably should put it -- make it a little more straightforward. What do you want to get out to the general public, I guess, about pigs?

FORTNER: Basically, that like you all are telling everybody, it's safe to eat pork and that as long as you're preparing it properly and you're taking care of things, pork's great for you. Our market has got -- our animals now are a lot leaner, and the food -- the pork is a lot healthier for you. And that's about all I could really say.

PHILLIPS: No, you're a great interview, J.R. I appreciate how direct you've been with us and sharing your time with us. I know it's a busy time for you. Appreciate you very much.

FORTNER: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Well, what should do you to protect yourself and your family from swine flu? CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us today with today's "Empowered Patient" report. And I guess first off, we should probably talk about Vice President Biden, how he raised eyebrows with something that he said this morning. Let's go ahead and take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would tell members of my family -- and I have -- I wouldn't go anywhere in confined places now. It's not that it's going to Mexico. It's you're in a confined aircraft. When one person sneezes, it goes all the way through the aircraft. That's me.

If you're out in the middle of the field and someone sneezes, that's one thing. If you're in a closed aircraft or closed container or closed car or closed classroom, it's a different thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: OK, we heard this from the acting director of the CDC last week. I mean, on "AMERICAN MORNING," the question was asked, would you travel to Mexico, would you take your family to Mexico? And he said no.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, so, they're saying two different things. Dr. Besser was talking about traveling to Mexico, which is not advised unless it's essential. What the vice president just told -- or, this morning told Americans was that he's telling his family, don't get on a subway or get on a plane.

When I first read the transcript of that on my BlackBerry this morning, three letters came into my head, which were, OMG. I could not believe that he was telling people that because no one else is. The CDC isn't telling people, don't get on planes and don't get on subways. The infectious-disease experts I've talked to have not said that.

So that it was pretty interesting that he said that. Now, I do want to note he said something interesting. I wrote this down. He said, that's me. In other words, he gets worried about these kinds of things. And so, if he and people like Howie Mandel and other people like that are very anxious about germs -- and Howie Mandel has not weighed in on swine flu -- but if you are...

PHILLIPS: That's his routine, right?

COHEN: That's right, exactly.

PHILLIPS: We can never forget the Howie Mandel routine.

COHEN: Exactly. But if someone is particularly anxious about swine flu and so doesn't want to get into any confined space anywhere, that's your choice. That's the vice president's choice. He can do that.

PHILLIPS: That isn't coming out with some national worry or call to, hey, everybody stop flying, don't go anywhere.

COHEN: Right, exactly.

PHILLIPS: Stay inside your house.

COHEN: Right. Maybe he's a germophobe. And it's his right to be a germophobe. He can do whatever he wants.

PHILLIPS: We'll investigate that. All right, let's get down to the basics here. Do you want to start with just how contagious this is? Where do you want to begin?

COHEN: Yes, let's start there.

PHILLIPS: OK.

COHEN: Because in my "Empowered Patient" column, which is up on CNNhealth.com right now, we have 15 questions about swine flu. One of them is, just how contagious is it?

Obviously, it spreads person to person. But I want to make this note. The little boy who died in Texas, none of his family members caught swine flu from him. That's very interesting because for a while, they didn't even know he had swine flu. And you can imagine with a toddler, the boy not even 2, cuddling him and holding him. And those people who were cuddling and holding him didn't get swine flu. I think that's an important point.

It can spread person to person. It's not spreading like wildfire. We're not seeing people who were on a plane with someone with swine flu, the entire plane doesn't get infected. I think that's...

PHILLIPS: So, how close do you have to be to somebody? Let's say you've got it. COHEN: If I got it -- achoo! -- and sneezed on you, you could get it.

PHILLIPS: Then I would say cover your mouth. Like my grandfather used to say, cover yourself.

COHEN: Exactly. Exactly. And so, there is no question that I could give you swine flu if I had it. There's a three to six feet -- it's called the breathing zone. The breathing zone. So, it's three to six...

PHILLIPS: Or personal space.

COHEN: There you go. So, that's the answer there. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that if I sneezed right now, I would get Kyra sick, but I could because we're standing that close.

Now, if you walk past someone on a busy city street and get real close to them, they're not going to give you swine flu because you're just passing them. It has to be sort of sustained contact.

PHILLIPS: All right, thank you, Elizabeth Cohen. Appreciate it.

COHEN: OK. Thanks.

PHILLIPS: OK, so, let's talk about some state government employees. They're pretty fired up now over a smoking surcharge. They're going to have to fork over hundreds of extra dollars a year if they or their spouse can't kick the butts. That's right -- their spouse also. We're going to tell you where and why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, at 65, most people retire, right? Not to start a new business. But two sisters in Pennsylvania apparently wanted to keep active. Cops just busted them for allegedly dealing heroin out of their homes. The 65- and 70-year-old suspects said to clear $10,000 a week each.

Police say that they confiscated more than 1,300 bags of dope. The alleged supplier, Little Tony, also arrested. No truth to the report that the takedown happened at a bingo hall.

Well, cigarettes are about $5.50 a pack in Tennessee, but come January, smoking will cost state employees an extra 50 bucks a month, 600 a year. The state hopes that the insurance surcharge will be incentive to kick the habit. Well, fewer smokers means big savings in productivity and medical costs. The surcharge will be for everyone on the state health plan, including spouses and retired workers.

And a missing Florida boy has been found in California. Happily, not a kidnapping case. Listen to this. The 13-year-old took his dad's car and drove to the airport. Nobody stopped him as he actually bought a ticket with his dad's credit card. Then he flew to Chicago, then on to San Jose, where his mom lives. Father says his son's got (INAUDIBLE) Syndrome, a type of autism, and is fascinated with flying. Well, did you hear what the president said last night about torture at his news conference?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Waterboarding violates our ideals and our values. I do believe that it is torture. I don't think that's just my opinion. That's the opinion of many who've examined the topic. And that's why I put an to end these practices.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, he said he won't prosecute CIA agents for those past torture episodes, but how about those soldiers dishonorably discharged and/or sent to prison for the Abu Ghraib scandal? You think they deserve a presidential pardon? I want to hear from you on this one.

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PHILLIPS: Well, we're just getting started in the NEWSROOM. It's not a lack of faith that's keeping the people out of the pews in Dallas. It's the fear of the flu. And the priest says that's no sin.

All right, was that real? Bless you. As a matter of fact, bless us all. A simple sneeze can go a long way these days, and if you haven't covered your mouth before, you will now.

Well, something was said on CNN this morning, and I wonder if it will stun you like it stunned me. First, let me say in no way, shape or form do I have compassion for terrorists, but I do take issue of those who take advantage of their authority. Let me remind you of these photos from the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq. Former Army Specialist Charles Graner and this woman that he later married, Megan Ambuhl, thumbs up and smiling over the tightly stacked naked prisoners. They say they were just following orders.

Then there's this photo. Former Army Private Lynndie England, puffing a smoke near a prisoner, posing for the camera. And by the way, we know of no classified memo that would condone pointing at a prisoner's genitals while someone's taking a picture.

OK, now that your memory is refreshed, listen to this from CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Give them their lives back. Revoke the accusations. Certainly release the last soldier remaining in prison. Release him.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR, "AMERICAN MORNING": Do they deserve a presidential pardon?

KARPINSKI: They do. And they deserve to have all of those convictions overturned. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Really? Presidential pardons? That was former Brigadier General Janet (sic) Karpinski, the disgraced and demoted former head of the Abu Ghraib Prison. Eleven of her soldiers were convicted of crimes related to that scandal, and some officers were reprimanded. Now that CIA memos on torture have been released, Karpinski, says, hey, why shouldn't my soldiers be off the hook, too?

So I asked, do you think they deserve presidential pardons? I asked you to weigh in on our Twitter page. And here's what you said.

Pauline Brock (ph) says, "Abu Ghraib soldiers should get medals for exposing what went on."

Spring Wolf (ph) says, "Stop holding soldiers responsible for the accountability of senior officers and government administration officials. Yes, pardon them."

Geolarson (ph) says, "I agree they should get pardons. General Karpinski should be reinstated with rank and pay. High-ups in D.C., though, need to pay."

Cub Scout (ph) says, "Anyone connected to U.S. war crimes should be charged. Ignorance, mistakes and following orders, excuses are for trial/sentence phase."

And this comes from Curious 1966 (ph), says, "Acceptance of a presidential pardon means an admission of guilt, and it doesn't take away the stigma of the crimes that the soldiers did."

Another tweeter put it this way: "It depends on level of initiation of abuses and whether the publicized abuses were sanctioned or ordered by higher-ups, case by case."

A lot of you said no pardons. One tweeter put it this way: "Sorry, Kyra, no, no way. They were exactly knowing what they were doing."

And you can voice your opinion in our quick vote as well. That's at CNN.com/newsroom. Right now, the majority of you are saying that, yes, the soldiers convicted for abuses at Abu Ghraib should be pardoned.

Now, a question for GITMO prisoners: You ever been to Montana? One town would love for you to come stay a while.

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PHILLIPS: Well, Attorney General Eric Holder says that 30 of the 241 detainees at Guantanamo Bay are cleared for release. So, where are they going to go? President Obama wants the GITMO detention center closed over the next nine months. Holder's in Europe now, trying to get some allies to take them.

But some officials in the small town of Hardin, Montana, say, hey, we'd love to have some. Actually spoke to the man behind this plan, Greg Smith, and I asked him why he wants the prisoners in Montana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG SMITH, DIRECTOR, TWO RIVERS AUTHORITY: First of all, we have a facility. We're one of the poorest counties in the nation. And we've been fighting to get prisoners for the better part of a couple years at no -- we believe no fault of our own.

And we think it would be safe. We think it would be a good option for the president. And we're a more rural area, so we think we have a lot of things that would play well into making people safer with this issue.

PHILLIPS: Well, your senator there, Max Baucus, even your entire congressional delegation, is opposing this idea. Let's go ahead and listen to what the senator said recently.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: It's a security risk that I don't think we want to have. Just not the right thing to do. Now clearly, you have to help those folks in Hardin who need jobs and find some other solution to this. But I don't...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Straight to the White House. Robert Gibbs holding a briefing now, talking about the people in Mexico that have been exposed to the swine flu.