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Former FBI Interrogator Denounces Harsh Techniques; High Doses of Vitamin Supplements Might Negate Exercise Benefits; MIT Researchers Invent Flying Car; Study Finds Smoking Burns Body Fat; Video Depicts Caregiver-Organized Fights of Mentally Disabled Students

Aired May 13, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: You can watch it happen in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM with Kyra Phillips.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: We are pushing forward, Tony, to the breaking point. While families mourn the deadly fallout of combat stress in Iraq, the whole world wonders: does mental health have to be a casualty of war? I'll talk with a general who takes this issue very personally.

Here's another painful question. Can you torture the truth out of a terror suspect? A longtime FBI interrogator tells Congress the answer is no.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Just in now, we understand that President Barack Obama has made an order to stop the detainees' photo release. Jill Dougherty working for us -- working this for us at the White House -- Jill.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Kyra. You know, those are photos of alleged abuse of prisoners by the U.S. military, both in Afghanistan and in Iraq.

There were two court cases brought by ACLU to release those photographs. The government lost both times. The Pentagon lost, and so the court ordered those photographs to be released.

Now, up until this point, the White House has been saying that they were going along with it, that they accepted that decision. However, just a few minutes ago, we have a statement from an administration official who says that actually last week President Obama expressed his concern. He was uncomfortable, they say, with the release of those photographs, and that he felt that the release would endanger the troops and that also, in those court cases, the national security implications had not been presented sufficiently to the courts.

So what is he doing? At the end of that meeting last week, they say, he directed his counsel to object to the immediate release of those photographs. So that is a switch.

Now, we'll have to see precisely how they're going to follow this, what they will do with the courts, but it is notable that all this week we've been hearing that the White House would go along with this. Now it turns out last week President Obama said he was uncomfortable and now wants to appeal that decision.

PHILLIPS: Well, we saw the outrage created by the Abu Ghraib photos when those were released. We'll follow this story. Jill Dougherty, appreciate it so much.

Another story breaking this hour: police right now looking for a 13-year-old in Norwalk, Ohio. Sheriff's deputies in Heron County say that the boy kept a diary and made threats towards students and faculty at his school. The name of that school, Norwalk Catholic.

Apparently, a gun is missing from his home, and a white 2003 Chevy pickup truck was taken near the boy's home. That could be involved in this, as well. The school is now closed. As we get more information, we'll bring it to you. We're tracking the story.

They broke them. A searing charge from the anguished father of the soldier accused of opening fire on his comrades this week in Baghdad.

Army Sergeant John M. Russell is charged with five counts of murder at the combat stress clinic where the commander had sent him for counseling but where, according to Russell's father, his stress only mounted.

Two days after the rampage, we're hearing from grief-stricken families and from a stateside general who's waging a very personal war for better mental health care in the U.S. military.

We want to start in Sherman, Texas, where Sergeant Russell's father and son remember a laid-back soldier who suffered in silence before he'd ever ask for help.

Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started with a fight inside this combat stress clinic in Camp Liberty, Baghdad, between Sergeant John Russell and other officers. Russell was being escorted back to his barracks when he snapped. His father talked about it for the first time.

WILBURN RUSSELL, SGT. RUSSELL'S FATHER: They got a little ways from the facility. He beat the crap out of the guy and took his gun away from him.

LAVANDERA: Military officials say Sergeant Russell then drove back to the clinic and killed five U.S. soldiers. But Russell's father says it wasn't combat stress that made him kill but fellow soldiers who pushed him over the edge.

RUSSELL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Some of the officers were threatening him.

LAVANDERA: John Russell's father and son spoke extensively with us about the Army sergeant's experience in Iraq.

RUSSELL: They overstressed him. They broke him. They ruined his life. They told him, "You're an idiot. You don't belong in here. We're going to get you out of here."

LAVANDERA: Russell was on the third tour in Iraq. His family says the 21-year Army veteran never showed signs of post-traumatic stress, and even if he did, he wouldn't have talked about it.

RUSSELL: He wouldn't have asked for help if he'd had to.

LAVANDERA (on camera): He wouldn't have?

RUSSELL: No, he would not. No.

LAVANDERA: Do you think that's maybe why they...

RUSSELL: John Wayne. You know, a man's man. He's laid back. He's real quiet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something in his mind just went off, and he just had no control over it. That's what I think.

LAVANDERA: He's not really -- he's not like a violent -- he's not a violent guy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not at all. Not at all.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Military officials in Baghdad say Sergeant Russell was ordered to undergo counseling last week because of unspecified words and actions.

MAJ. GEN. DAVID PERKINS, U.S. ARMY: Just know that his chain of command had concerns about him. He had been undergoing counseling within the command. Again, they had already taken the immediate measure of removing his weapon.

LAVANDERA: Wilburn Russell says his son feared some Army officers were trying to run him out of the military with a dishonorable discharge five years before he could retire.

(voice-over) Sergeant Russell's son says he last heard from his father on April 25 in an e-mail wishing him a happy birthday and saying that he was looking forward to the end of his deployment, when he was supposed to come home here for a short visit in less than two months.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Sherman, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Private 1st Class Michael Yates Jr. was killed in Monday's attack. He was 19 years old from the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And he, too, was getting treatment at Camp Liberty. His parents say he called home Sunday and mentioned Sergeant Russell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD VAN BLARGEN, PFC YATES'S STEPFATHER: When the conversation with my wife on Mother's Day, he had said that he had met a sergeant that was -- in his words, he was a very nice guy. He could deal with him, but he had some major issues. He was out there on the branch, hoping for somebody to help him. There wasn't a lot of conversation about him, but there was a comment about him because he respected his -- the upper echelon of the command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Also killed was Navy Commander Charles Springle, a counselor who specialized in stress from repeated tours in battle zones. A cousin spoke to one of our affiliates in North Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALTON DUDLEY, COMMANDER SPRINGLE'S COUSIN: It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to see -- to see how needlessly his life was taken, especially when it was by a fellow soldier.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, G.I.'s stressed beyond human endurance, stigmatized when they try to get help. In just a few minutes you're going to meet a major general on a mission to promote mental healthcare in the ranks. He knows too well the heartbreaking costs of ignoring it.

Waterboarding, legal and necessary. That's the take of the Bush administration. A key witness and critic of waterboarding has been speaking to senators today about enhanced interrogation techniques. Former FBI special agent Ali Soufan interrogated terror suspect Abu Zubaydah. To protect his identity he testified behind a screen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI SOUFAN, CEO, THE SOUFAN GROUP LLC: A major problem is that it is ineffective. Al Qaeda are trained to resist torture. As shocking as these techniques are to us, their training prepares them for much worse: the torture that they would receive if caught by dictatorships, for example.

In a democracy, however, there is a glass ceiling the interrogator cannot reach, and eventually, the detainee will call the interrogator's bluff. And waterboarding itself had to be used 83 times, an indication that Abu Zubaydah had already called his interrogator's bluff.

In contrast, when we interrogated him using intelligence interrogation methods, within the first hour we gained important actionable intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, here's what we know about Ali Soufan. Prior to 9/11 he investigated and supervised several high-profile terrorism cases, including the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the bombing attack on the USS Cole in Yemen in 2000, and he has interrogated senior members of al Qaeda -- al Qaeda, including Abu Zubaydah.

Soufan is a Lebanese American who was born and grew up in Beirut, joined the FBI in 1997. He's now chief of his own consulting group.

And the political and international ramifications of the Senate hearing on enhanced interrogation techniques a little later. We're going to check in with our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley. We're also going to talk with our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

Well, we've all heard stories about smokers who quit and then pack on the pounds. Right? Well, a new study finds a possible genetic link between smoking and staying skinny. We're going to talk to one of the doctors involved.

And we want you to talk to us about this one. Our Twitter name is KyraCNN. We'll use some tweets on the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, all this week we're asking you to tell us about police officers that you admire. Well, Alvin Robinson, you've got a pretty big fan club.

Bill Wilson is part of it, and he left a comment on our blog about Officer Robinson, who serves with the Reading, Pennsylvania, Police Department. In addition to his regular duties, he does a lot of work to help kids, first in the DARE anti-drug program and now in GREAT: Gang Resistance, Education and Training. In Bill's words, Officer Robinson "is an exceptional public servant, both in and out of uniform."

Thank you for that contribution, Bill.

If you want to give a cop props during National Police Week, head to CNN.com/newsroom and click "Kyra" to find our special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL: They overstressed him. They broke him. They ruined his life. They told him, "You're an idiot. There's nothing wrong with you. We're going to get you out of here."

LAVANDERA: That's what other Army officers were telling him?

RUSSELL: That's what the stress test technicians would tell him. They just follow orders.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Wilburn Russell saw his son go off to war many times and must have known that he might not return, but he surely never dreamed that Sergeant John Russell would stand accused of killing five other troops, apparently in a stress-induced breakdown.

My next guest has a painfully unique perspective on all of this. His youngest son, 21-year-old Kevin Graham, was a top ROTC cadet at the University of Kentucky when you hanged himself in 2003.

The very next year, Kevin's older brother, Jeff, an Army second lieutenant, was killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq.

Today Major General Mark Graham is on an mission to end military suicides, to bolster mental healthcare and to clear away stigmas. He joins me now live from Colorado Springs, Colorado.

General, it's always great to see you.

MAJ. GEN. MARK GRAHAM, U.S. ARMY: Hi, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You heard what Wilburn Russell said right there. He said this about his song, that the counselors at the stress clinic broke him. What do you think about that?

GRAHAM: Well, I'll tell you, my -- my heart and condolences go out to the families of those that were -- that were killed in this tragic event. And I know that's under investigation in Iraq, and they're -- they're doing all they can in Iraq. And any parent or -- any parent or family member that's undergoing any kind of horrible circumstances, you know, my heart goes out to them as they endure these circumstances.

PHILLIPS: What do you think about the counseling that takes place? I mean, does that make sense to you, that -- that someone could be broken by a counselor? That maybe it was too much or it was too intimidating or -- you know, that's what we're trying to understand, is how could that happen. And does that make sense to you?

GRAHAM: You know, I'm certainly not a doctor. You know, I'm not a medical professional. I'm an Army officer. And I would tell you, my experience as we've got some tremendous medical care providers for our soldiers and their families. They do a wonderful job. And I really can't address that.

PHILLIPS: Let me ask you this. Let me ask you, because you're -- you're a warrior. You're a soldier. You're a military general. You know, a lot of us think, hey, the men and women in the military, they can't be broken. I mean, they're the toughest folks around. I mean, they're the bravest folks around. They're protecting us from -- from terrorists and the enemy.

Maybe we should be a little more compassionate and understand, hey, they're human, too. A lot of us can break when others think we're really strong. GRAHAM: Well, true. Our soldiers are physically fit. They're tough mentally and physically, and they're ready to go. And they're the best trained army in the world by the best noncommissioned officers in the world and the best leaders.

And I can -- I can tell you for sure, you know, that from Admiral Mullen, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and the secretary of the Army, Secretary Geren; General Casey, our chief of staff of the Army; and General Chiarelli, our vice chief of staff of the Army; from the top all the way down, our Army is working us hard on the stigma that surrounds this.

But our soldiers are taken care of, and they're trained well. But of course, we are -- you know, we're all human. And resiliency training is something that our Army is doing now. We're doing even more than we were before. We're doing it even better.

We're doing resiliency training to help our young soldiers understand how you become more resilient, how you -- how do you build that mental toughness to come on a mission and come off the adrenaline and come down. And we're seeing some good results of that. I know some of the training that's just been going on recently here, we're seeing some -- hearing some very good feedback from our young soldiers that this has -- helps them give a skill for resiliency.

PHILLIPS: And that's the key word right there: resiliency, and how do you maintain that, especially when you're, you know, going back into war, not once, not twice, but even three tours of duty.

You know, I know losing your son, Kevin, a top ROTC cadet, to suicide was incredibly brutal. But that personal experience really opened your eyes. How did that change you as a military commander and what you wanted to do in the military, to help break the stigma and break situations like a John Russell or your son that was struggling as a cadet?

GRAHAM: Well, I think that we are making progress on the stigma in the Army. However, it will take time, and this will not happen near as fast as we all want it to do, we do feel we're making some progress here. You know, we're seeing it -- an increase in soldiers that are willing to come forward to get help for behavior health care, which is very encouraging.

Are we there yet? No, we're not. When will it occur? You know, I can't say that. But I can tell you it's slow steerage of a ship, it seems like. And I will tell you, from the senior readers on down, we want it to happen faster.

And I think we are seeing some progress there, but it's tough. And we've got to help our young soldiers, our young SEALs (ph) and our officer corps to understand more. What are the warning signs of depression? What are the -- what are the high-risk factors that could lead to something spiraling and crescendoing into a bad event? How do we help them prepare for that so they can see it coming and get in front of these horrible events? PHILLIPS: General, final thought. You know, John Russell said that he was bullied and felt a lot of -- a lot of pressure from his comrades.

You know, we see it in the movies. We even see it, you know, as journalists out in the battlefield. There is sort of this kind of "suck it up, soldier" kind of attitude. And there's some razzing that goes around among the guys.

What do you say to your men and women now when you have a chance to go one-on-one with them, speak before a larger group, maybe have some unique conversations with other military commanders? What do you tell them about that sort of John Wayne attitude?

GRAHAM: Treat others like you -- like you'd like to be treated yourself. Also, every door a soldier goes through should be the right door for help and care.

And I will tell you, we've got great leaders in our Army at all the levels that believe in our soldiers, that train them well. You know, we're very confident in our leaders on the ground, just to take care of these young great Americans that have volunteered to serve the nation, and they're proud. And I'm proud to be a member with these soldiers and walk next to them.

But I will tell you, the key thing for me is treat others like you want to be treated and take care of each other. This is tough business. And it is a stressful time in our Army. And multiple deployments are tough on the soldiers and the families. And our Army is working hard to make sure we've got as strong a safety net as possible around our soldiers and families to make sure they get the care they need.

PHILLIPS: And I know it's been tough for you. So once again, I just want to lift up Kevin and Jeffrey, your sons. Because everything that you're doing now not only helps the active military, but it keeps their spirit alive. And I just always appreciate how candid you are. Major General Mark Graham, thanks so much.

GRAHAM: OK. Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, you're not done yet. Next hour we're going to talk more about the stress of repeated deployments with a Marine and Iraq War veteran who wrote a memoir of PTSD.

And we're spending large sums of money to kick highly-qualified gays or lesbians out of the military, some of whom possess specialties like Arab-language capabilities that we desperately need.

It was a strong quote from the then-candidate Barack Obama against the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Almost four months into his presidency, though, that policy is still in place, and another highly-qualified gay soldier with Arabic language capabilities has just been kicked out of the military.

First Lieutenant Dan Choi told Anderson Cooper how he's going push forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: What happens next? You're going to fight this.

1ST LT. DANIEL CHOI, ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: Right. Fight this tooth and nail. I'm going to go up and -- there's going to be a board of officers, and I'm going to explain to them, "I'm still gay. I'm here. I'm ready to serve."

COOPER: And if you get -- if they do, in fact, go through and discharge you, what will you do?

CHOI: Well...

COOPER: Because you could leave now with an honorable discharge.

CHOI: That's right.

COOPER: But you could risk not getting an honorable discharge.

CHOI: Right. One of the choices is just shut up and go away, and we'll give you an honorable. And it will be comfortable. And really, I will continue speaking out. I will continue reminding all the soldiers -- I mean, if there's anyone that's listening right now, a gay soldier, I just want to tell them that you are honorable. And you're not alone. There's so many of us that are serving. And it's an important time to be serving right now, in a time of war.

And I can't promise anything to myself about legislation or when. I mean, I'm not a politician, but I will promise you that I will not shut up. And I will not be forced to be silent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the story is one of our tweet topics today. We want to know your thoughts. Our Twitter name, KyraCNN. You can also leave comments on our blog, CNN.com/newsroom.

An update now on one of our top stories. Police in Norwalk, Ohio, still trying to find that 13-year-old who allegedly made a hit list. Apparently, he's made his way across the Ohio River into Kentucky now. They think he made a phone call from a pay phone in rural northern Kentucky, possibly to a classmate.

Sheriff's deputies in Heron County say that the boy kept a diary and made threats towards students and faculty at his school. We're told that a gun is missing from his home, and also a white 2003 Chevy pickup truck taken near the boy's home could be involved in this, as well. The school still remains closed.

Senate hearings on what some call torture; others, enhanced interrogation techniques. What a former interrogator calls ineffective. We're going to tell you what was said and what the possible political and international fallout could be. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Pomp, circumstance and the secretary of state. Hillary Rodham Clinton sending 6,000 or so spring grads of New York University off to the real world. She delivered their commencement speech just a short time ago inside Yankee Stadium. NYU also gave her an honorary doctor of law degree.

They're ready for the real world, but is the real world ready for them? Our Richard Roth went to the ceremony and talked to them about their prospects.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This commencement of NYU graduates featured lots of talk about the recession and the tough economy. With us are several students who are looking for a job.

Well, Sonja (ph), you paid all this money, your family did, for tuition here. What are your job prospects?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this moment I don't have many prospects because they're not hiring teachers in New York City. But education is still important. So is music. And there will be more opportunities for me to become a part of my community.

ROTH: What's your mood, though, about the -- looking for a job now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charter schools, private schools.

ROTH: What's your mood?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mood? Positive. Absolutely.

ROTH: OK. Christine (ph), what's your sense? What are you looking for? What's your mood?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm -- I'm actually optimistic about the career field out there. I'm going to be a nurse. So they always say always looking for healthcare people, so I'm optimistic about it and I think I can do it.

ROTH: But didn't you hope months ago that there might be something?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I've been -- I've been looking for two months now. And in the city it's a little harder. I'm looking in Westchester County right now for jobs, and that's looking up a lot.

ROTH: Rachel (ph), what's your mood here? Graduation day but no job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not feeling too good about it. But I figure I could find a job at some point. That would be good.

ROTH: We talked to other students who were kind of nervous or concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I wasn't excited about graduation because I didn't have a job. But now I am after being here, so hopefully, some time soon.

ROTH: Did Senator Clinton inspire you all?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I actually really liked her speech.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

ROTH: She was talking about social networking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I paid for graduation for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. She was great.

ROTH: But your family paid so much money. I mean, you're supposed to have a job, ready to go to something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not true. Not true. You just keep punching when you graduate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We still have time. It's only May, what, 14th or something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... what you're putting on there.

ROTH: All right. Well, I don't want to depress you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need my RN license. I need my license.

ROTH: Nursing, psychology, different interests, education. Good luck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

ROTH: It appears that the graduation ceremonies has induced definitely more optimism in these graduates. The 177th for New York University.

Richard Roth, CNN at Yankee Stadium in New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Dangerous stormy weather taking aim at the Midwest today. Our severe weather expert, Chad Myers, tracking the storm's movement in the CNN weather center. We'll go to him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, as we mentioned, the interrogation of terror suspects is the focus of a Senate hearing today. At issue, waterboarding and other methods of interrogation. One key witness at today's hearing, former FBI special agent Ali Soufan, interrogated several senior al Qaeda suspects. He spoke from behind a screen and denounced waterboarding as ineffective and damaging.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: For the last seven years it has not been easy objecting to these methods when they had powerful backers. I stood up then for the same reasons I'm willing to take on critics now, because I took an oath swearing to protect this great nation. I could not stand by quietly while our country's safety is in danger and our moral standing damaged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Joining us now with political and international impact of all this, senior political correspondent Candy Crowley and chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Candy, let's go ahead and start with you. You know, how do you think all of this, well, all this openness, I guess, about torture is going to play out here at home?

CANDY CROWLEY, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, if we look at the polling data here, what we find is that while most Americans say things like waterboarding, those so-called harsh interrogation techniques have been used and they don't like them, they're very split on whether they should continue to be used or whether it was wrong to use them. So, from a public standpoint, there's a kind of 50/50 split on it.

The more important than this current hearing is what's going on behind closed doors, and that is a closed intelligence committee look into what went on, whether any laws were broken. This is a public show, a public forum, a public airing of this. But it is the private committee hearings that are likely or more likely, at least, to produce anything in the way of condemnation or in the way, frankly, of legislation.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll talk about that in a second. Christiane, let me ask you, then. You know, do you think that the international community maybe is looking more to this or cares more about this, you know, while Americans here at home are struggling with the economy, because this is about torturing their own.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's important, no matter what the polls show, to understand that this torture and this harsh interrogation violated America's basic principles. That's according to many human rights officials, the U.N. Convention on Torture, the International Commission of Jurists in Geneva. So, there is a very clear view internationally that what did take place here in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and elsewhere was torture, and beyond that, it caused a great deal of outrage around the world.

And it was one of the things that President Obama confronted directly when he made his speeches in Europe, in Turkey and elsewhere during that first trip overseas at the beginning of April saying that the United States categorically, unequivically does not torture. And he obviously spent his first week in office going to great lengths to reverse all of the legal opinions and all of the other Bush administration methods that led to those harsh interrogation methods.

So, this is a big deal overseas, and they're looking at it at it very, very closely. And they're also are talking about the fact that if there are guilty personnel, they should be held accountable. This also is splitting many of the jurists and human rights activists and, indeed, former detainess at these U.S. facilities.

PHILLIPS: You know, while I'm thinking about it, Christiane, because Obama administration just ordered government lawyers to object to releasing those additional detainee photos. Remember what happened when those photos were leased at Abu Ghraib. What's your reaction to that?

AMANPOUR: Well, you remember it was the press that first broke that. "60 Minutes" and Seymour Hersh for "The New Yorker" first broke that story several years ago. And it immediately caused outrage, not just in the United States but around the world. And those pictures unfortunately became symbolic, emblematic of all the troubles that the U.S. faced in the last four years of the Bush administration, particularly given its war in Iraq.

And you remember the picture of the detainee who was hooded and stood on a box with those electrical wires attached to his fingers and other extremities. This became the symbol of, unfortunately, America in the eyes of the world at that time. And this was something that the American people, whether now they say they don't care about torture or not, when it was time for the election, by vast majorities, the American people said that they wanted their good name, the name of their country, the influence and credibility of their country's standing, to be restored in the rest of the world.

PHILLIPS: All right, Candy, let's get back to these hearings that are going on on the torture techniques. I had a chance to interview Philip Zelikow, former aide to Condi Rice, months back, and he said, hey, the administration wanted to torture. Now he's testifying. Let's take a listen to a little bit of what he just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIP ZELIKOW, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: In sum, the U.S. government over the past several years adopted an unprecedented program in American history of coolly calculated dehumanizing abuse and physical torment to extract information. This was a mistake, perhaps a disastrous one.

It was a collective failure in which a number of officials and members of Congress and staffers of both parties played a part, endorsing a CIA program of physical coercion, even after the McCain amendment was passed and even after the Hamdan decision. Precisely because this was a collective failure, it is all the more important to comprehend it and learn from it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: What have we learned, Candy? I think a lot of Americans are wondering, boy, could members of the Bush administration be prosecuted for this?

CROWLEY: Well, certainly they are looking into that. And that is one of the things that's going on behind closed doors. But it's important to remember that the president himself has wanted to have these things taken care of quietly. There have been people that were prosecuted about Abu Ghraib, about the torture of prisoners in Iraq.

So, there have been prosecutions, and the White House pointed that out, by the way, in its statement about not wanting these pictures now released. So, certainly, the Obama administration want to be seen as doing something about those who have done something illegal, but it also has a huge, huge agenda, and they want to look forward rather than back. They've said that a lot. So, they would prefer a lower profile for this sort of thing even as it marches forward.

So, you know, we are continuing to learn who said what, what sort of memos. But I think it's interesting to point out in that sound bite you just played that what's happening is, this is becoming a much broader question, as there have been some Democrats out there who as it turns out were briefed on these torture mechanisms, particularly on waterboarding. It remains an open question whether they were told it was actually being used.

Nonetheless, this is now encompassing a lot of people, not just Republicans, not just the Bush era. So, I would imagine that that sort of makes a difference in how they look into it, but indeed, they're going to continue, at least behind closed doors.

PHILLIPS: Candy Crowley, Christiane Amanpour, ladies, thank you so much.

People in the Midwest could be in for a serious hammering from severe weather today. Let's bring in meteorologist Chad Myers for more -- Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Speaking of cool assignments, look at this live video from outer space, where the space shuttle Atlantis has saddled up next to the Hubble space telescope. This is the end of a chase that began on Monday, as you know. We showed you the launch of Atlantis right here on our show. Now, the shuttle crew is moving its robotic arm to grab hold of the Hubble. It's a delicate maneuver. And it's happening 350 miles above the earth.

Vitamins are good for you, but if you like to exercise, some vitamins could undo all of your hard work. We're going to tell you which ones you might want to ditch.

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PHILLIPS: You exercise, check. Take vitamins, Check, check. But should you do both? A new study questions some of the supplements you might be taking. Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're going to be hard-pressed to find someone who says that vitamins are bad for you, but this is a fascinating study looking at the perils, if you will, of overdoing it, of taking too much supplementation. When you exercise, several different things are happening in the body. But one of the health benefits is something known as reactive stress or reactive oxidation.

What happens here is that the glucose sources in your body, those fuel sources, are starting to demobilize, and as a result, you increase your metabolism. When the body's metabolism increases, and that's a good thing by all accounts. It helps you burn calories at rest. It helps you, again, reach some of the best benefits of exercise. What this study showed, a small study in just about 40 men, is that if you take high doses of Vitamin C and Vitamin E specifically, you start to reduce some of those health benefits of exercise.

What happens? You don't get as much of that reactive stress, and as a result, your metabolism doesn't increase, and you're not able to sort of keep your glucose stores in check. That's a claim made, again, by this relatively small study.

Now, a couple things that's worth pointing out. First of all, how much is too much? When it comes to Vitamin C, people say around 75 milligrams. And if you read the labels of the foods you're eating, you're probably getting way more than that anyway. Over 2,000 is too much. You could see the same sort of recommended doses for Vitamin E and the overdoing it of Vitamin E as well.

It's also important to keep in mind that when you eat fruits and vegetables, you are getting a lot of these vitamins. And people say, well, are you overdoing it with the fruits and vegetables? The answer is that probably not, but we don't know for sure. When you eat fruits and vegetables, not only are you getting the vitamins, but lots of other micronutrients that are are probably treating those vitamins slightly differently in the body.

So, hard to overdo it with the fruits and vegetables. Possible to overdo it with the supplements. Try and keep it all in check, and don't use it as a reason not to exercise. Back to you.

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Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

Well, people try a lot of kooky things to lose weight, but despite what a new study says, smoking shouldn't be one of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Well, imagine a commute with the quickness of a plane and ease of a car. CNN's Gary Tuchman shows us a breakthrough vehicle that could take long-distance commuting to new heights in this week's "Edge of Discovery."

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GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Wright Brothers introduced us to the first flight. The Jetsons allowed us to dream of taking a flying saucer to the local grocery store. If you thought the flying car was just an impossible dream, think again. Some MIT engineers have done it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We flew! Yes!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looked beautiful from up here.

TUCHMAN: Introducing the Terrafugia Transition, a one-of-a-kind vehicle built to handle rush-hour traffic or fly over it.

CARL DIETRICH, CEO, TERRAFUGIA: You've got a steering wheel here. You've got a gas pedal and a brake pedal on the floor. You've also got a control stick for when you're flying and a throttle for when you're flying.

TUCHMAN: The Transition's designers think of it first and foremost as an airplane, but once on the ground...

DIETRICH: It converts between flying and driving in 20 seconds.

TUCHMAN: ... the touch of a few buttons makes it small enough to hit the highway, even park in a single-car garage.

DIETRICH: So, that's something that we're really excited about because it really shows that a vehicle like this has the potential to expand aviation and make it more practical for a larger segment of the population.

TUCHMAN: Testing is under way right now. The inventors say you can see the Transition on a runway, a driveway or even Broadway by the end of 2011. Maybe by then, we'll each have our own robot maid, too.

Gary Tuchman, CNN.

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PHILLIPS: So, do you know what lurks in your break room fridge? That's ours. My Hot Pocket better be in there when I'm finished, pal. We found another fridge out there, too, funk so intense, so foul, so newsworthy that it sendt people to the hospital.

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PHILLIPS: Well, there hasn't been a refrigerator this terrifying since "Ghostbusters."

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PHILLIPS: Yes, that was one scary appliance, wasn't it? Well, the ghostbusters took care of it, but you had to call paramedics and a hazmat team to tame one in San Jose, California. These people, hundreds of them, chased out of their office building by a fridge possessed by fumes. A couple dozen people ended up in the hospital with nausea, but they blame this on a perfect storm of rotten lunches, cleaning supplies and employees using another cleaner to cover the stench. Also, the fridge had been turned off. That's never good.

"Smoking Burns Body Fat" -- it's a doctor's nightmare headline, isn't it? Well, a new study suggests that is the case. Researchers pinpointing a gene that seems to play a role.

Let's go ahead and bring in Dr. Ronald Crystal of New York Presbyterian Hospital and Weill Cornell Medical Center. He's one of the doctors actually involved in this study. Doctor, thanks so much for being with me. I got to tell you, you know, I think everybody that heard about this story is saying, oh, this is great. I don't have to quit smoking because it's going to deplete my fat gene.

DR. RONALD CRYSTAL, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL (via telephone): Well, thank you for having me. No, it's not so great. Smoking's bad for you, and it causes a lot of bad things, like chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and lung cancer. But it also induces genes within your lung that tells your body fat to dissolve.

PHILLIPS: So, why did you do this study?

CRYSTAL: Well, it's well-known that people smoke in part to lose weight. And we also know that when people stop smoking, they tend to gain weight. And there's a lot of reasons for this -- decreased activity, nicotine may play a role. There are a whole variety of reasons. But we hypothesize that perhaps when the cigarette smoke hits the lung that it tells the cells in the lung to perhaps produce a gene, get a gene functioning, that would tell your fat to dissolve. And, in fact, that seems to be what happens. It doesn't mean that it's the only reason, but it may be part of the reason you lose weight when you smoke.

PHILLIPS: So, I'm curious, and I probably know the answer here, but I've got to ask you, as a doctor, knowing what you know now, since you've done this study, would you ever tell an obese person, who's just been struggling with every single diet, exercise program, you name it, would you as a doctor ever say, well, you want to try smoking?

CRYSTAL: Absolutely not. Smoking is not only habit-forming, a terrible addiction, but it's associated with very, very serious diseases, including cancer, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, cardiovascular disease, which far, far outweigh being overweight.

PHILLIPS: There you go. Bottom line. Dr. Ronald Crystal, pretty interesting study. It caught all our attention. Thanks for your time.

CRYSTAL: Nice talking with you.

PHILLIPS: Victims of war, the terrifying reality for a mother and daughter caught in Pakistan's combat zone.

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PHILLIPS: All right. We are waiting for the White House news conference to begin. Why? We want to see if Robert Gibbs says anything about President Barack Obama ordering government lawyers to object to the planned release of additional detainee photos. The president is concerned if those photos are released, photos that could be, like the Abu Ghraib photos, it could incite violence against U.S. troops. As soon as that briefing begins, we will take it live.

Mentally challenged students brutalized by the very people who are supposed to keep them safe. That's the outrage story that we reported before and we push forward this hour. This is the disturbing video of the night shift fight club at a Corpus Christi state school. We're using the images obtained from ABC News.

We told you about the abuse allegations in March, when investigators first discovered that caregivers allegedly prodded students to fight each other. But the new images reveal even more of these innocent and vulnerable students' ordeal.

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PHILLIPS (voice-over): It's hard to know what's more revolting, that what we're looking at actually happened or that somebody would videotape it on their cell phone camera, apparently for its entertainment value. This is not play acting. It's a fight club organized by employees of a Texas state school for the mentally disabled. The very employees hired to protect these vulnerable adults. Pitted them against each other.

Six former staff members have now been charged with organizing these fights between the disabled residents, encouraging them to beat each other, egging them on. It wasn't a one-shot deal. It happened over and over. At least 16 fight club events during a year and a half.

Finally, in March, this cell phone video was brought to the attention of Corpus Christi police. And the indictments were set in motion.

LT. ISAAC VALENCIA, CORPUS CHRISTI POLICE DEPARTMENT: A big disappointment that someone would see some enjoyment out of someone less fortunate not knowing any better, being placed in these compromising positions. It doesn't seem right.

PHILLIPS: The staff members charged with organizing this fight ring are no longer employed at the residential school. Neither are five others who seem to have encouraged the fights from the sidelines. But until investigators can sort through all of this, admissions are on hold. CARLOS VALDEZ, NUECES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's barbaric. It's despicable. It is conduct that has no place in an organized society. We should not have anything like this. We should not tolerate it. And we will do everything we can to get to the bottom of it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

PHILLIPS: A sickening study in brutality beneath the radar.

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PHILLIPS: Now, in just a couple minutes, we're going to push this forward and dig a little deeper. I want to look at these mental health schools in Texas and the investigation into the abuse allegations. Abel Herrero is a Texas state lawmaker. His district includes part of Corpus Christi. He's a children's health care advocate and is on the committee that investigates health services in Texas. We're getting him miked up. We're going to talk to him in just a couple of minutes.

Meanwhile, Texas Governor Rick Perry already expressing outrage over this new cell phone video. His office has actually released the following statement. This is what it says: "It's totally reprehensible. Those that engaged in this kind of conduct will have the heft of our law put upon them."