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U.S. Soldier Charged With Murder; Elizabeth Edwards Speaks Out
Aired May 13, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI SOUFAN, CEO, THE SOUFAN GROUP LLC: The idea behind it is to force a detainee to see the interrogator as the master who controls his pain.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Stunning testimony from a former federal agent who watched interrogations, watched suspects placed in boxes like coffins and told Bush administration officials it was un-American and illegal. You will hear him.
You will hear what the pilots saw and said as their plane goes down. Does it suggest they weren't trained properly? You decide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe this was a recoverable stall?
WALLY WARNER, CHIEF TEST PILOT, BOMBARDIER: My opinion is, yes.
JOHN RUSSELL, SON OF SERGEANT JOHN RUSSELL: How could anything like this happen?
SANCHEZ: Details on what many Americans are asking. The military says he got mad, he got a gun, and he slaughtered five fellow soldiers in Iraq. His father says the military is to blame.
WILBURN RUSSELL, FATHER OF SERGEANT JOHN RUSSELL: They broke him.
SANCHEZ: Why are many women angry at Elizabeth Edwards? What did she do wrong? A CNN interview you must see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, WIFE OF FORMER SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS: And I believe, through this whole thing, John has loved me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Protesting the president's upcoming address at Notre Dame because he supports a woman's right to choose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To say that we have to allow this to politely go forward is absurd.
SANCHEZ: The stories that make America's national conversation on this Wednesday, May 13, 2009.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation. It's not a speech. And it's your turn to get involved.
I promise to always bring you news as it's happening, and there is news happening right now. I'm going to take you to the coast of Florida.
This is Boynton Beach. And this is in the Atlantic Ocean, where we understand -- and this is preliminary information -- it's coming in to us now. Some of the information, we still have got to work through, but we can tell you it's a dire scene out there. A boat with as many as 28 people has capsized. We have not even been able to see the boat that possibly could have capsized, which means it could be under the waters, under the ocean at this point.
The problem is, there were 28 people on board. Some of those souls may have vanquished. Some may be on these vessels. Some have been rescued. We're trying to piece this thing together. As you know, it's not the first time we see vessels coming from this part of the world, possibly -- and this, again, not nailed down yet, but with Haitian migrants, and in the past, their rickety boats have overturned in these seas.
Let's go to Chad Myers. He's going to try and fill us in on what's going on. He's been watching this story unfold, as we stay on these pictures. You will see from time to time on Coast Guard cutters like these and even on some of the fishermen's boats some of the -- some of the folks who have been rescued on board.
Chad, pick it up for us.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Some of the utility boats going out, picking up people, bringing them back to these cutters and dropping them off and kind of a triage team on the cutters there.
This is all happening about 10 miles off the shore. We know that because we can find Sky 7 and Sky 10 from WPLG and WSVN out there flying around. You measure it just from Palm Beach, and this has actually been drifting to the north, as you would expect. That's the way the current's going, these helicopters following these guys out there as well.
Here exactly is the cutter. Most of the men and women, although I have only really seen men so far, have been put onto this cutter from these little rigid hull inflatables. And also here, as we take a look, this is going all of the way to Google.
There's the location of the rescue, about 10 miles from the Florida coast, in between the Bahamas. Freeport would be over here. Here's the shore, West Palm, Boynton Beach itself, and, so, a 10-mile flight for these helicopters and also a 10-mile run back in for some of these boats.
We will keep watching. I have seen, unfortunately a few of these people be pulled out of the water unconscious or worse. And, also, I have also seen some of the life jackets been pulled out of the water without anyone in them.
So, this is not a good scene. At some point later on today, we will know more.
SANCHEZ: Dan, before we get out of the story, give me a shot of that cutter, if you would. Dan, in the control room, can you hear me? Give me a shot of one of those cutters. And I think you will see. And as we have gone in tight on some of these cutters -- Chad made the point a little while ago, but there's -- there are people, some of them apparently being resuscitated, rescued, taken out of the water, on these Coast Guard cutters, and as well on some fishing boats that were in the area...
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... that were just called in or were somehow told over their radios to come to the scene.
So, again, this is a breaking news story we are following for you. Chad's been keeping an eye on it. In fact, he's the one who came in and told me about this.
MYERS: Hey, Rick, these guys have been in the water now since 2:00 a.m. That's what they're telling the rescuers. The first rescue wasn't until 12:30 this afternoon, so...
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: ... 10-and-a-half hours in the water.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hold on. That's the shot. That's the shot I was talking about. You see the folks on board there. You see the one young man walking around.
You see the other people who apparently are on gurneys or have just been taken out of the water. Those are the ones on the Coast Guard cutter will be more than likely taken, either to the Boynton Beach station or the Miami Beach station, talking about the Coast Guard stations there.
MYERS: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, Chad, keep an eye on this, will you?
MYERS: Sure will.
SANCHEZ: We will -- we will get back to you and we will keep the picture up whenever we feel we need to. And, as we get more information, 28 people, we don't know how many have been rescued or how many have perished, we will share it with you. And there's this. This is what else Americans have been very much involved with today. There's hardly a citizen, a politician or soldier who hasn't expressed an opinion in our conversation, our national conversation about our country's interrogation methods. Some call it torture.
You have heard the arguments. Some call it a necessary evil. You have heard those arguments as well. Enter a guy who's not just an American average citizen or just another politician or a soldier. This guy knows what an effective interrogation is, because he has interrogated terrorists and gotten them to talk.
He's gotten kudos from up and down the stratosphere of folks in the military and in politics, considered one of the best at this. He is behind that screen you see right there, that wooden screen, where it protects his identity, because the terrorists want him dead.
He is a former agent of the FBI. His name is Ali Soufan. Now, forget for a moment whether water-boarding is legal, illegal, torture or not torture. Today, Ali Soufan told a Senate subcommittee -- and this is important -- he told them, it doesn't work. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI INTERROGATOR: These techniques, from an operational perspective, are slow, ineffective, unreliable, and harmful to our efforts to defeat al Qaeda.
Al Qaeda are trained to resist torture. As shocking as these techniques are to us, their training prepares them for much worse, the torture that they would receive if caught by dictatorships, for example.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Joining us now is our legal analyst Jeff Toobin.
Jeff, George Bush and Dick Cheney both say water-boarding worked, in unequivocal terms. In fact, Cheney has said within the last week that it saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
How does today's testimony from this agent, said to be very respected by everybody for his methods that did work, how does it move this story?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: I think it just keeps the story going.
The problem here is that there is very little resolution in this story. And, for President Obama, who wants to try to distance himself from the actions of his predecessors, but also put the whole story behind him, and get the nation talking about something else, the conflict, the clear conflict, that you alluded to between the agent's testimony today and what Vice President Cheney's been saying over and over again is something that leads the rest of us, who obviously just don't know whether it's true, to say, well, I guess there is no real clear answer at this point.
SANCHEZ: But sometimes the fact that there isn't a clear answer is part of the story.
Agent Soufan is the guy who got Abu Zubaydah to tell us who was behind 9/11, Sheikh Khalid Mohammed. But he did it without water- boarding, he says. President Bush said it was water-boarding that got Abu Zubaydah to talk.
In fact, here, listen to him say it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), RHODE ISLAND: On September 6, 2006, President Bush stated the following: "Within months of September 11, 2001, we captured a man named Abu Zubaydah. We believed that Zubaydah was a senior terrorist leader and a trusted associate of Osama bin Laden.
During questioning, he at first disclosed what he thought was nominal -- nominal information, and then stopped all cooperation. We knew that Zubaydah had more information that could save innocent lives, but he stopped talking.
As his questioning proceeded, it became clear that Zubaydah had received training on how to resist interrogation. And, so, the CIA used an alternative -- alternative set of procedures."
Does that statement by the president accurately reflect the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah?
SOUFAN: My own personal opinion here, based on my recollection, he -- he was told probably half-truth.
WHITEHOUSE: And repeated a half-truth, obviously. His statement, as -- as presented, does not conform with what you know to be the case from your experience on hand?
SOUFAN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, here's the difference, in case someone at home maybe didn't get it.
The president of the United States said that Abu Zubaydah didn't speak until he was -- until these methods of interrogation were used on him. But the interrogator who was there is saying that he spoke before those methods were used on him.
Plain and simple, somebody isn't telling the truth here.
TOOBIN: I mean, it's really shocking when you think about it and you put it in the context of how much incorrect information was put out by the Bush administration about our policies in connection with interrogation over the years. And here you have, you know, the best witness, it seems, the guy who actually did the interrogation, talking about how it didn't work. And, you know, the interesting thing about this whole torture debate is that it sort of operates at two levels.
There are a lot of people, but I -- it seems no a majority, who say, look, this is simply wrong. It doesn't matter whether it works or not. The United States of America should not torture, should not water-board, period.
But there's a second position, which is, even if you decide to water-board, it doesn't work. And that's the position that seems to be advocated by the -- the agent today. And that's a pretty much irrefutable argument, if it's true.
SANCHEZ: Jeff Toobin following that for us from a legal standpoint, and bringing us his perspective.
Jeff, thanks so much for joining us.
TOOBIN: All righty, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Let me join in our Republican -- let me bring in, I should say, our Republican strategist, Rich Galen, and our Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona, who have been listening to this conversation and no doubt watched part of this testimony today as well.
My thanks to both of you for being with us.
RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you, Rick.
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you, Rick.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Rich, as a Republican strategist, I have got to ask you, this conversation that seems to go on every day, because there's testimony, because Dick Cheney's talking about it, does this trouble you, as a Republican?
GALEN: No. I don't -- it troubles me as an American, I think.
Let's get back to basics here. I think as an American, it's a very difficult question to have to deal with. And anybody who has ever been in a war zone, anybody who's been in a position where you think you may have somebody that has information that's going to save American or allied lives, these are the kinds of things you -- decisions you have to deal with all the time.
I don't know that it's fair, though -- with all due respect to Jeff, I don't know that it's fair to say that this agent was with -- with that prisoner every step of the way from the moment he was captured all the way until the time he...
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: Well, you know how it worked, right? First, the FBI was called in and then the CIA guys were brought in, and the CIA guys told the FBI guys, we're in charge now. We're going to do this our way.
That's part of the problem that some people have been arguing in this case. True? I mean, you will cede me that, won't you?
(CROSSTALK)
GALEN: Well, I don't know that that was the sequence of events. That's what one guy says the sequence of events was.
SANCHEZ: All right.
MYERS: It may -- he may be telling the truth. I don't know.
What I do know is that this is -- I think this is an important discussion for Americans to have. And if we could get politics out of it and come to some kind of national agreement...
SANCHEZ: Point well taken.
GALEN: ... this is what we will do, I think that would be a good thing.
SANCHEZ: Point well taken.
Maria, I want you to listen to something. This is Lindsey Graham, the only Republican, by the way, who showed up at today's hearing. Listen to what he said, and then I want to talk to you about it on the backside.
CARDONA: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: They saw the law many times as a nicety that we couldn't afford, so they took a very aggressive interpretation of what the law would allow. And that came back to bite us. It always does.
But that's not a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: In other words, Maria, they were doing their jobs. They were just trying to protect Americans. They thought these bad guys had information and they were going to work them over until they got that information. And how can you be mad at these Americans, leaders, for doing that?
CARDONA: Well, I don't think that you can be mad at the operative.
And, in fact, the Obama administration has said very clearly that no one's going to go after these operatives who actually followed the legal advice, the profoundly wrong and misguided legal advice, that they got from the Bush administration.
And therein lies the problem. Look, today's testimony underscores just, again, how misguided Mr. Cheney's statements have been, Bush's statements have been. It underscores how secretive they have been, the abuses that they have engaged in.
And it actually points to how correct President Obama's actions were in outlawing these kind of actions.
SANCHEZ: Well, why?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Wait a minute. Why does it underscore how bad it was, if you concede that they were just our leaders trying to protect us from -- from some really bad people?
What's to underscore there?
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Because what is being underscored by Mr. Soufan, who is a professional, who has done this his whole life, and he has been there and he has been the interrogator, he says, outright, unequivocally, that torture techniques do not work. Not only did they not work, but they were actually detrimental to the success the FBI had had up to now in obtaining the information.
SANCHEZ: So, I get you. You're -- you're -- you're saying what they did was wrong, even if their intent wasn't wrong. I get that.
One quick one -- a one-answer question from both of you, because we have got this other breaking story we want to follow.
Let me -- let me start with you, Maria. Was this torture, yes or no?
CARDONA: Absolutely, it was torture. And it didn't work.
SANCHEZ: Rich, Rich, was this torture, yes or no?
GALEN: Oh, sure it was torture. I don't -- but my question is, I don't -- I'm not -- it's -- I'm not convinced it doesn't work. I mean, I don't want to do it. I don't want to see it. I don't want it to done to me. But I don't know that it doesn't work.
CARDONA: It's illegal.
SANCHEZ: We have -- but we have prosecuted people who had done this in the past in the nation.
CARDONA: It's illegal.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: We will pick up the conversation again. Great stuff.
Thanks to both of you.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Thank you, Rick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. RUSSELL: They overstressed him. They broke him. They ruined his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow, a U.S. soldier kills five fellow troops in Iraq. And you know who that is? Do you know who that is? That's his dad. And he's talking to us. He's talking to CNN. And guess who he's blaming? You will hear.
Also, she stayed with her husband after his affair and is now writing a book. She had previously planned to write, to be fair, so why are some women angry at her and other women who stand by their cheating men? This is an interesting question that many of us here have been having at the CNN headquarters.
Also, President Obama's planned commencement address to Notre Dame, as in the university with the good football team, sometimes, it's drawing protests, even calls to rescind the invitation. Talk about a national conversation. We're on it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Well, it's interesting, as I welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
There is -- we were told today that Twitter was going to be down between 3:00 and 4:00. But, interestingly enough, Colleen (ph) tells me, when last she checked, our floor manager here, that things are, in fact -- give me a thumbs-up. They working? They are.
Well, this is odd. Either way, we will keep checking on it to see what's going on. We had collected a couple of things in our favorites to share with you, because we have been having conversations and getting comments on this all day.
And this story, as well -- we're still trying to get our heads around some -- the bizarre tragedy that occurred in Baghdad this week. We told you the story, five American troops killed in Iraq, allegedly shot dead by another American.
This guy right there, see him? Finally, we got a picture of him. That's Sergeant John Russell. He's a soldier who was already under the microscope for stress and mental stability issues. Until today, all we have learned is what the Army had told us from Iraq. Now we hear from the shocked and heartsick father and the son of this man, who you see in this picture next to me, who witnesses say snapped and just started shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. RUSSELL: They broke him. They -- they probably told him things like: "You're an idiot. You don't -- you don't belong in the military." That's his whole life. He's ruined. He's going to lose his house. He's going to lose -- going to lose his retirement, everything. He's got no recourse.
J. RUSSELL: I have just been praying for the -- the families of the loved ones that were lost over there due to this. I have been praying for them, just hoping that they get through this and just -- just don't look down on him for what he did, because that -- that -- it wasn't -- this wasn't him.
W. RUSSELL: We only know what we see on the TV. His wife had been officially notified of what happened. And she's so tore up, she can't talk.
I guess they scheduled him in for a stress test. Well, it's just possible that whoever is in charge of the stress center, the beer- drinking buddies, these officers, they decided they wanted to get rid of him. And, so, I think they broke him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow. "I think they broke him," these are some strong words from a father, who no doubt is going to protect his son. Still, that's from Sergeant John Russell's father, who also talked to that guy, right there.
That's Eddie Lavandera. Stay right, Eddie. When we come back, we're going to talk to you from Dallas to get more information about what you're learning. You're one of the few reporters who has talked to this family. You have got insight that we want to share.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGIE BRANDQUIST, SISTER OF PLANE CRASH VICTIM: We put our lives in the hands of people that we assume that the FAA is -- and the airlines are -- are properly training.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A safety hearing reveals the pilot of the plane that crashed in Buffalo was never trained on the emergency system needed to avoid the crash. And you betcha, you betcha the family's upset about this. We are going to bring you their stories when we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, after our interview, or should I say Larry King's interview, last night with Elizabeth Edwards, there's been a lot of conversation about what Elizabeth Edwards did right or wrong and why so many people, women, in many cases, are being extremely hard on her for writing the book, for talking about this, for staying with her husband, so many comments, that we have asked you what your comments have been throughout the day.
We have been getting a bevy of them. Let's go to MySpace right now.
Here's one. And, yes, Twitter seems to be down, Colleen.
Anyway, back to MySpace. "It is so easy for us to sit back and say what we would do if our husbands cheated. No one truly knows what they are going to do unless they are thrown in that situation," in deference to Elizabeth Edwards.
But we're going to be devoting a segment to this, so stand by, because it's going to get good.
A minute ago, we saw and heard from the father and son of the soldier accused of the most unbelievable violence we have seen in quite some time. The Army says this sergeant, John Russell, who you see next to me, grabbed a weapon, barged into a military clinic in Baghdad, and just started shooting his own. Four soldiers and a Navy officer are all dead as a result.
Eddie Lavandera has talked to a man holding the weight of this news on his soldiers, his father. John Russell's father lives near Dallas. Eddie went and paid him a visit.
Ed, thanks so much for being with us.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You got it, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Tell me what you heard. Tell me what he told you.
LAVANDERA: Well, you know, when we drove out there yesterday, Sherman's about an hour north of Dallas, right on the Texas-Oklahoma border, and, you know, as we watched this story unfold during the course of this week, I fully expected to come across a family who would, if they spoke with us, would kind of outline in detail the story of a soldier who, on the end of his third tour in Iraq, would -- would have been at a breaking point, would have been describing having seen so many horrific things, that perhaps that is what led him to do this.
So, I was kind of taken aback by what John -- Sergeant John Russell's father and his son described to us yesterday, and, essentially, that they pointed the blame not necessarily on the combat stress of what Sergeant Russell has gone through, but internal, I guess, political issues, you might say, within his Army units there, or what he suspected what was going on, that that is what...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes. Well, you know, let's call it what it is. He's blaming the military. He's saying, you guys caused my son to get this way and do this. That's what he's saying.
Of course, he's his father. And that has to be taken into perspective. You have got a couple of pieces of sound that you got from him that you want to share with us. Set these up, if you would, and let's listen to what he said.
LAVANDERA: All right.
In the first one, let's -- we will hear from the father first. This is one of the initial questions we asked him, why he thought this happened or how it happened. And, essentially, I think the thing to take away from this is that whatever happened has unraveled very quickly. So, let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. RUSSELL: His wife told us. He e-mailed her and said he had had the worst three days of his life, because some of the officers had threatened him. Well, you don't have much recourse when you have officers riding you.
LAVANDERA: But you don't know what that threat was about?
W. RUSSELL: No. No, I don't have any idea.
LAVANDERA: You think it was threatening to kick him out of the military, or...
W. RUSSELL: Well, they might not have made that threat. They might have told him that: We will get you. We will get you, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: He's really convinced that these guys were after his son.
LAVANDERA: Right.
And he -- later on in the interview, he talked about, this was a sergeant who -- let me give you some background real quick. Sergeant -- well, he graduated from high school in Sherman, never went to college.
His father said, you know, this is a man who's very preoccupied about being able to care for his only son and his family. He's five years away from retirement. He apparently, in his father's estimation, believed that he was -- that what was going on would put all of that at risk, being able to retire from the military and the benefits that come with that.
So, that's -- in his father's opinion, that's what's driving a lot of this.
SANCHEZ: You have got another piece of sound. Go ahead and set that one up for us.
LAVANDERA: And the son -- when we got to the house yesterday, the son was incredibly emotional. And, for a brief moment, I didn't think that the interview was actually going to happen.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LAVANDERA: So, we were able to explain, hey, look, there is why we're here is to be able to tell your side of the story. It's crucial that we be able to do this in these situations, as difficult as it might be. He calmed down and was extremely gracious with us in being able to see it.
This is a young man who has had a very limited relationship with his father. His parents divorced when he was young. His father's been stationed overseas, a kid who, in his words to me, was like, look, I'm trying to -- I have been trying to work on my relationship with my father for quite some time.
So, you can imagine what this young man is going through now. So, listen to a little bit from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. RUSSELL: I think that they just -- just got to him, and he just couldn't take it. And I don't know, you know, a whole lot about it, but it's not him that did something like that. It's not -- subconsciously.
You know, something in his mind just went off and he just had no control over it, is what I think. He's just -- he's a good person. And for something like this -- like that of that nature to happen, it had to have been something really, really terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow.
LAVANDERA: And what's really confused this younger John Russell -- he also -- he has his father's name -- is that he was -- the last e-mail he received from his father was on April 25, the day after his birthday. His father had wished him a happy birthday and said that he was looking forward to being home in less than two months and that they were going to spend several weeks together in July, no hint of anything wrong.
So, that adds to the confusion for him.
SANCHEZ: What a bizarre story.
And we should probably add, though, that the guy has not had a stellar military record. So, in deference to his father and his son, who speak highly of him and say the military caused this, obviously, there was an ongoing problem there of some sort.
And, by the way, credit to you, Eddie, for going out and getting this story.
And, look, speaking as a guy who has been there, I know it's not easy to go and speak to a family member of someone who is in a situation like this, and especially a son. It's not like something you wake up and you say, I can't wait to go ask a son what it's like to talk about his father in this situation.
But it's something we have to do. And my thanks to you for going out there and getting that story for us.
LAVANDERA: You got it, Rick. Thanks, man.
SANCHEZ: I appreciate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how is this decision on the photo -- photos consistent with what he said on his second day in office; I will hold myself as president...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is a routine White House briefing. That question goes right to the heart of the issue. It gets heated over questions about whether to release many, many, many more alleged prisoner abuse photos that are out there.
The media thought they might be able to see them today or tomorrow. Now it sounds like it ain't going to happen. We are going to tell you why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do not believe it's right to celebrate a man who has gone so against Catholic principles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Should President Obama be prevented from giving this weekend's commencement address at Notre Dame because he's in favor of a woman's right to choose abortion?
Keep in mind, many presidents have given that commencement speech in the past. Well, protesters are up in arms about this one. Their argument? You're going to hear it, because we're going to be talking to one of them right here. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, I want to show you something, we were talking about this a little while ago. Can you believe twitter? Of all the times in the world for them to go down for maintenance for one hour, during our newscast, no less, you know there's going to be some complaints filed about that one. Let's show them, in fact, go ahead Robert. Show them what it looks like on twitter. Twitter is currently down for maintenance and then it goes on to say down there, it's cool, I can chill. But are we married to just one site? No. We have Myspace. We have Facebook. We have other ways of listening to you. And we will.
All right, in the meantime, I want to show you another story, a plane crashes into a house, 50 people die. That was near Buffalo, New York, in the snow, three months ago. So, why do I bring it up today? Here's why. And this is important. In fact, this is amazing. It turns out the pilot of that plane did almost everything wrong. And those 50 people might be alive today. I want you to watch this report filed by one of our best, Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Continental connection flight 3407 tumbled to the ground near Buffalo, New York, panic in the cockpit. According to a transcript just released from the plane's voice recorder, pilot Marvin Renslow blurts out Jesus Christ and we're down. First officer Rebecca Shaw starts to say something, but is cut short by her own scream. Disturbing details as federal investigators gather in Washington this week to figure out what went wrong.
(On camera): Here's what we know. At 10:16 p.m. February 12th, the landing gear was down, but the plane's speed had dropped to a dangerously low level. To avoid a stall, an emergency system kicked in, known as the stick pusher. That sent the plane into a temporary dive, which is supposed to help it regain speed. Investigators believe Captain Renslow tried to override the system, what experts say may have been a fatal mistake.
WALLY WARNER, CHIEF TEST PILOT, BOMBARDIER: Obviously the initial reaction to the stall warning was incorrect. And that set the course of action for what followed.
KAYE (on camera): The government's animation shows when the pilot pulled back on the controls to lift the plane up, instead of letting it dive forward to regain speed, the plane rolled left, then right. In fact, it was practically on its back before rolling left again. It continued to stall. Finally, it flipped over and crashed.
(Voice-over): Perhaps most shocking, new details about pilot Renslow's lack of training. Colgan Air which operated the flight acknowledged the pilot had never trained in a flight simulator with the emergency system that activated on board.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know of any stick training or stick- pusher training that was done in the actual Q-400?
PAUL PRYOR, COLGAN AIR: In the simulator no, in the grounds portion it is covered.
KAYE: It turns out the FAA does not require such hands-on training.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe this was a recoverable stall?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My opinion is yes.
KAYE: And there's more. Captain Renslow had just 110 flying hours in the Q-400 turboprop. Colgan Air says the captain was fully qualified, but had failed five training tests. Margie Brandquist's sister died in the crash.
BRANDQUIST: We put our lives in the hands of people that we assume that the FAA is -- and the airlines are properly training.
KAYE: Training to deal with all kinds of emergencies, even ice, which was a concern for the co-pilot. The government's report shows minutes before the plane hit the ground, she expressed her fear of flying in icy conditions. Fear it could cause a crash. In this crash, it may not have been ice at all, but something aviation investigators seem to believe was much more avoidable. Lack of experience. Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARDS: I believe through this whole thing John has loved me. I just think that he had a frailty that allowed him to do something which was completely contrary to the rest of his life.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Do you have any --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is another great Larry King interview. The question is, though, and what a lot of people are talking about today, why are women, so many women, angry at Elizabeth Edwards and others like her, in fact? Let's call it what it is. Her husband cheated on her. It seemed like she was the victim. It's a phenomenon that we find curious and we're going to talk about it.
Also, tweets from space! This astronaut makes history from the shuttle and I have been trying to tweet with him, but twitter's down! We'll check and see if there's anything from him that we can share.
Also gearing up for the president's address at Notre Dame this weekend. Protesters say he should not speak. The president of the United States should not speak at Notre Dame. Is this really a religious argument? Or is it a political argument? You'll get what I mean when we do this segment. Stay with us. It's good.
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SANCHEZ: Yes, we're getting a lot of buzz about this twitter situation, and some of you are upset about it. I can't say I blame you. Let's go ahead and show that on the twitter board, if we can. Now, the twitter board is down, but we smart enough -- Colleen was smart enough -- to collect some of the twitter comments on favorites and then put them on a word document and that's what you're looking at now. Look at the one of the top, twitter down during Rick Sanchez CNN? What's he going to do? I'll tell you what I'm going to do, I've got a backup. We'll go to Myspace. Take them to Myspace if you would there, Rob. We know we've got people commenting as well. Show the photos! He's referring to the president of the United States who has decided not to show the so-called abuse photos. Where's the transparency? By the way, we're going to do this segment coming up in just a little bit, it got heated between reporters and Robert Gibbs on that very topic. We'll show you that moment.
Meanwhile, President Obama will join the ranks of his predecessor, President Herbert Walker Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Dwight Eisenhower, this Sunday, when he delivers the commencement speech for the University of Notre Dame's graduating class. But since it was announced, it's become a flash point, to say the very least, of controversy within the Catholic Church as well as a bonanza for the president's critics of all stripes. I want you to take a look at a website. Thoroughly dedicated to this controversy. It's called notredamescandal.com. It's gotten more than 360,000 hits and they're not alone. Bishops, a Vatican official, Cardinal Newman society president, all facing off against Notre Dame for this President Obama invite. That has many other Americans perplexed. Anti-abortion activists and president for the society of truth and justice, Randall Terry, he's good enough to join us. He's joining us from South Bend, Indiana, the heart of the conflict and controversy, where he was incidentally, Randall this is true you were arrested last week for trespassing on Notre Dame's campus?
RANDALL TERRY, PRESIDENT, SOCIETY FOR TRUTH & JUSTICE: Yes, I and about 25 others, including Dr. Allen Keys, we pushed baby strollers, peacefully, quietly, prayerful on campus and in the strollers were baby dolls covered with stage blood and an Obama bumper sticker, saying Obama '09, one dead baby at a time, Notre Dame to make a statement.
SANCHEZ: I get it. Let's leave it at that for now. I want to introduce you to somebody else, he's the president of the Catholic League, Bill Donohue, you've seen him before, he's been on the show several times, he joins us live from our New York studios for this frank discussion. Randall let me go back to you on this, a simple question, this is the way a lot of people across this nation would look at this, why should the man who represents the United States as its president, elected as such, the president of the United States, not be allowed to talk to Catholics because they disagree on one issue.
TERRY: Because he is the premier promoter of child killing in the western hemisphere and perhaps the world. Notre Dame is the premier institution of Catholic universities in the western hemisphere, perhaps the world. And President Obama by his policies is literally responsible for the death of innocent human beings in America, in Africa, in China, and to invite him and to give him honor in this manner would be like inviting Pilate to speak after he ordered Jesus to be crucified.
SANCHEZ: So the notion of my question was, is it all about just one issue here?
TERRY: Yes, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: -- abortion and to you it is. Bill, who's really moving this issue? And I guess, let me ask you this, Catholic to Catholic here, I guess all three of us are Catholic, right? You're Catholic, everybody here is a Catholic?
TERRY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Do you think the average catholic in the United States right now, Bill, is up in arms about this? If you and I stopped right now, a catholic as you and I like to say, in Philadelphia or in Miami or anywhere, we said, what's the one thing that bothers you must or you don't like or your reservation about Barack Obama, you'd say the fact that he's going to speak at Notre Dame? You think they'd say that?
WILLIAM DONOHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: No, as a matter of fact the onus is more on Father Jenkins, isn't it? Because he invited him to speak there. Look, you got to (INAUDIBLE), Catholics are not a monolithic group. If you divide between practicing Catholics and non practicing Catholics, you'll find that the practicing Catholics is for some reason are opposed to Obama getting an honor, they're not opposed to him speaking at Notre Dame, they're opposed to him being honored. The bishops are very clear about this in 2004. No Catholic institution should honor somebody who is that much different from the Catholic Church on the fundamental right. Look, abortion is not just like any other issue, it's not even like the death penalty. It is intrinsically evil. It would be impossible to find somebody who's a greater champion of abortion rights than Barack Obama. He doesn't belong on the campus getting an award.
TERRY: And he doesn't belong there speaking. The issue is as Bishop Darcy said locally, that even putting him on the platform is honoring him. For me getting the honorary degree is the throwaway line. The issue is that he's going to be there, he's going to have the backdrop of Notre Dame and it gives the appearance that Notre Dame says, well killing children isn't really that big of a deal.
SANCHEZ: But you know, I have to ask you, because I have a feeling that many Americans are asking this question Randall, wouldn't Jesus have said it's ok to listen to someone you may disagree with?
TERRY: Sure, you can listen to them but you don't honor him by giving him a chance to speak to the students. That's the whole point. People are coming in from around the country to get arrested for praying on campus. They're people all over the country having protests in their cities saying this is a crime against the Catholic Church, this is a crime against the babies.
SANCHEZ: I get that and my producer is telling me I have to go. But let me just ask you this one question that also a lot of Americans wonder about, this president, like him or hate him, has a very socially conscious driven agenda, wants to try and end wars, wants to help the poor. Do you give him credit for any of those things or does that go all out the window because you oppose him on his choice position?
TERRY: A broken clock is right twice a day. If you and I agreed with him on every issue that he just wanted to kill Jews, would you say listen, he builds great roads, he's got great economic policies, let's forget that Jewish thing for now.
DONOHUE: I have no problem with Obama speaking on the campus, I'm a (INAUDIBLE) I have no problem with him addressing the law school, being involved in this symposium and discuss it. I do have a problem giving him the honor and that's why Maryann Glendan, who was his professor at Harvard turned down an award.
SANCHEZ: Interesting insights. Sounds like look you're saying my problem is not with Barack Obama my problem is with the university for giving him the award. Thank you for the perspective, a lot of Americans want to follow. By the way, the speech will be seen live this Sunday here on CNN, we'll cover it for you, good bad or indifferent. My thanks to both of you gentlemen.
This is crazy what happened today, did you see this? What happened today during the White House news briefing. The daily White House briefing turns to humor but not before confronting a very serious subject on terror. We've got both, serious and the funny.
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SANCHEZ: Something bizarre happened today at the White House briefing with Robert Gibbs. It happened when a phone went off, not once, but twice. And this is what he did --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[CELL PHONE RINGING]
Give me the phone. Seriously. Enhanced interrogation techniques. I'll be right back.
Wow.
GIBBS: No, no, somebody caught it, don't worry. I made the determination that the illumination of the sound was distracting to the briefing as the press secretary to --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, there were some very serious questions that were being raised just about the time that this happened. So you might say this was needed levity at the time. Very serious questions about a White House decision to block the scheduled release of hundreds of photographs showing prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan allegedly being abused, some would say more than that. You've heard the argument about torture. But this action has been ordered by President Obama on national security grounds, according to his spokesperson. And there's a fear, they say that releasing these photos could stoke anti-American sentiment and then endanger American troops. Obviously it's a point of contention. Many of the journalists in the room reminded the president that he had promised earlier that he would be transparent and not get in the way of information having to do with this investigation. So expect this to be something that we will cover some more.
Elizabeth Edwards and what she said last night on Larry King, and the argument that's being made against her oftentimes by women. Is that a phenomenon? Why does it happen? Ashleigh Banfield next.
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SANCHEZ: All right, some new information, yes, twitter is back, according to the twitter board I'm being told now Robert that that is the case. Also, I want to go to Myspace real quick. Twitter there on your left saying it's back and then make a quick dodge and go over there. This is on the president's decision not to show the photos. Show the photos, where's the transparency, that's what somebody is saying on Myspace. That seems to be the consensus.
Now on Larry King last night, I want you to watch what many people are talking about. Elizabeth Edwards talking about being the woman scorned. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARDS: I believe through this whole thing John has loved me. I just think that he had a frailty that allowed him to do something which was completely contrary to the rest of his life.
L. KING: Did you have any suspicion at any time?
EDWARDS: No, none.
KING: Not a question? The man on the road a lot.
EDWARDS: He had been on the road for quite some time, he was a lawyer who traveled, did cases all over. But I saw the way he treated me, I knew the way he treated me and the commitment he had to our family and I had -- you know, I was perhaps the one thing I can agree with Maureen Dowd is that I was probably naive, I was certainly naive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Maureen Dowd is certainly not the only one, there have been many columnists who have been criticizing Elizabeth Edwards and women calling shows like ours and making comments about her. Why is that? What explains that phenomenon. Ashleigh Banfield is going to weigh in, she's going to join us in just a little bit to talk about this. Her perspective which is always fresh, interesting and smart, when we come back.
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SANCHEZ: Social consciousness time and this is what people are talking about, and especially women. The Elizabeth Edwards interview last night on Larry King, and those being hardest on her seemed to be those from her own gender. As was the case with Hillary Clinton. Ashleigh Banfield here to try and examine this phenomenon for us from a human perspective, not a psychobabble perspective. What's going on here?
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, IN SESSION: You know I think everybody loved Elizabeth when she was this brave, cancer survivor, supporting her husband. But then when she sort of stepped out of that and became this scorned wife, it all changed. And then when she only came half way Rick, saying that it happened but it didn't really happy as big as everybody thinks, I think they got mad and they thought that maybe they weren't getting the full story from Mrs. Edwards, but it is a weird phenomenon, isn't it?
SANCHEZ: Should people be mad at her for writing a book, because after all she was going to write this book before this happened.
BANFIELD: I know it's like damnit, give the girl some space, she's got terminal cancer and she wants to write her story and not have everybody write her story for her. So the fact that interviewers are going to confront you about everything if you come out with a book, that's part of it. But I would like for just a moment, us to just give her some space, she deserves it.
SANCHEZ: I think that's well said and I bet you a whole bunch of people out there agree with you as usual. Ashleigh Banfield thanks for being with us.
BANFIELD: Thanks Rick.
SANCHEZ: By the way I have just been handed some information by Chad about what's going on with that terrible tragedy we told you about at the beginning of the news cast. People may have died at sea and we have the pictures. We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: All right, let me bring you the very latest on this breaking news story, we're just told now, nine people dead, 13 rescued. Still searching for the rest. If you do the math, that's six people unaccounted for, they're out in the middle of the ocean, obviously this is not good. Again this is possibly Haitian migrants trying to come to the United States. Their rickety boat has turned over. Here now Wolf Blitzer in "The Situation Room."
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much Rick. Happening now, allegations of torture under investigation. A former FBI interrogator tells U.S. senators the harsh techniques don't work. And he accuses Bush era officials of telling what he calls half truths. Astronauts grab hold of a plus sized telescope and brace for their most daring repair mission ever. We're tracking ever step of this outer space adventure.
And Sarah Palin's new book deal, the Alaska governor plans to tell her story and likely make millions of dollars just in time for the next presidential race.
