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Did Donald Rumsfeld Delay Katrina Aid?; Should Republicans Take on President Obama?
Aired May 19, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): As they languished, did Donald Rumsfeld try to stop help from getting the people of New Orleans? Was he insubordinate? It's the newest charge.
TONI PRICE, MOTHER: The teacher put him face-down and sat on him. He struggled and said repeatedly, "I can't breathe."
SANCHEZ: Who would do this to a child, any child? Congress takes up this national debate.
A scandal that is rocking the British parliament -- what they say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your early retirement, sir, would help the reputation of the house.
SANCHEZ: And Michael Steele announces his marching orders for the GOP. Will they take heed? Should they?
You tell us during the national conversation for Tuesday, May 19, 2009.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody.
I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. It is a conversation that we will have. This is not a speech. And it is your turn to get involved.
And we are going to begin with a story that you have been heavily involved in since we first played this for you. We now have the police report. You recall yesterday we brought you this story, these clips. We're going to show them to you again.
First of all, here's the video, all right? There's some police officers in this video. They're from Toledo, Ohio. They say that the 14-year-old boy that you are about to see did a dance in front of their patrol car.
And, later, they spotted him sitting on some steps outside an apartment with three other people. The three other people left. They asked him to leave, and again, they say, he refused and did a little dance, and refused to be handcuffed.
Here's what happens next. Kind of tough to watch, but let's do it together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put it behind you.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Open my door, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: He's bleeding. Move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands behind you.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my goodness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We are watching this together with you. We are staying with the video again. Mike Brooks is joining me now. He's our law enforcement analyst here at CNN.
But, Mike, we're going to watch his sister come upon the scene again.
"What are you doing to my little brother?" Here, let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did my brother like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't give us a choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did my brother like that, Officer Daniels, for real?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What choice (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did my little brother like that, though, Officer Daniels?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: She said, "You did my little brother like that, though, Officer Daniels? "
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody got a phone?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on. Come use my phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Oh, is that right?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: So, you have got 28 total years combined of police experience with these two on the scene.
SANCHEZ: Let me add one more...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: And, again, we didn't see a lot leading up to this, as in the police report.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Well, let's you and I talk about that. And let's do this, too. There's something else in the police report I should add to this.
The police report goes on to say that the officers did apply joint pressure. Michael, you're going to explain what that means.
BROOKS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Also, quoting here again, "Open-handed strikes were applied to the facial area."
BROOKS: And, also, body strikes they admitted in the report.
SANCHEZ: All right.
We have read the report. You have read the report. You have called the police department.
BROOKS: And either time, they said he would not -- they said, he wouldn't -- quote, quote -- "wouldn't go down."
SANCHEZ: Did you talk to Chief Navarre?
BROOKS: No, I did not. I spoke to someone in his office.
SANCHEZ: What do they say?
BROOKS: And they're basically -- she said -- I asked how many years the officers had. As I said, Officer Daniels is 16-year veteran. Officer Bills is a 12-year veteran. It's under investigation.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BROOKS: But the chief was not -- was not there for -- for me to talk to.
SANCHEZ: Michael, Michael, Michael, this kid weighs 120 pounds. And the worst they can say is that he was dancing in front of their car.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I want to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, but I have got to tell you...
BROOKS: Let's go through it chronologically.
SANCHEZ: All right.
BROOKS: They were riding through the project, that housing project. It's 8:30 in the morning.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BROOKS: Let's kind of set the frame here, 8:30 in the morning, 14-year-old kid who in the report also admitted that he had been smoking marijuana prior to this and he was on probation for underage drinking. So, this not his first encounter with the police.
SANCHEZ: OK.
BROOKS: So, he comes up and he does a little dance apparently in front of his -- in front of their car. They continue on. A few minutes later, they circle back around, and he and three other people now are sitting on somebody's front -- front porch.
They come up and they ask, do you live here? Do you know anybody who lives here? They said, no. They said, OK, you're going to have to leave. The other three got up and left and he refused to leave. So, they got out of their car, went up to him. And apparently he did a little dance again.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But you're arresting somebody not for what they did, but for what they failed to do. That's like saying police officers can go to anybody and say, you need to do this, and he say he didn't do it, so they arrest you?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: But, in this one, in this particular case, what is -- what -- they arrested him, yes, for disorderly conduct or -- OK. Let's get on, just move on.
SANCHEZ: All right.
BROOKS: So, they tell him he's under arrest, to put his hands behind the back. He refuses. They finally get one cuff on, Rick. They get one handcuff on him, and then he takes the other cuff. Now, he's got one cuff around his wrist and he's got the end of the cuff now. And he swings it at the police officer and hits one of them in the chest.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BROOKS: How would you like to get hit with this metal object in the chest or in the face?
(CROSSTALK) BROOKS: OK. Number one, that's assault on a police officer.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're right. That's a great point.
BROOKS: That's assault on a police officer.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And, at that point, you should be arrested.
BROOKS: Exactly. OK?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But he's a 14-year-old boy. He's 120 pounds...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Who should have been at school to begin with.
SANCHEZ: But -- and they're putting a choke hold on him that made him unconscious.
BROOKS: He did not -- he refused, again, to put his hands behind his back. Did you see them -- in that, what we saw, you did not see them strike him, did you?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's look at this video again. Show the part -- take the cut where -- look at that right there.
BROOKS: OK.
SANCHEZ: Now, why do you -- these two officers together are about 500, 600 pounds.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: But they said he kept -- I don't care if he's 120 pounds or 220 pounds.
Have you ever been involved in something like this? I have, 26- year veteran Metropolitan Police Department in Washington. I have been involved in a lot of incidents like this. And I don't care how big you are. He's 5'10''. OK? So, you know, if it take twos officers to put him down, it take two officers to put him down.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: He -- he -- he kept refusing to put his hands behind his back and to be cuffed. And they said the kicking went into a full- blown fight and they said it lasted for about five minutes.
SANCHEZ: Were they wrong to put some kind of hold on him that created the situation...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... he was unconscious?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: ... neck restraint. It was not a choke hold. It was called -- it's called a carotid neck restraint. And you also saw them with the hand in front.
SANCHEZ: Show -- show the viewers. Do it to me.
BROOKS: I don't want to do it to you, because what it is, is basically you just cradle the neck in between...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But is there a proper way and a wrong -- is there a proper way and a wrong way to do this? And were they doing it right?
BROOKS: Yes. It looked to me like they were doing it right. OK?
SANCHEZ: So, why does the kid end up unconscious?
BROOKS: Well, I -- I didn't see -- I didn't see him go unconscious, because you see him, when his sister comes up, he's got his -- still got his head up.
And what they were trying to do underneath here is another control technique up under his face, because if you put a lot of pressure up under here, it hurts a lot.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BROOKS: And that's a compliance. And he was not -- still not being compliant. So...
SANCHEZ: Well, watch -- watch -- watch this here. Watch him fall down when they let him go. Watch this plunk. Boom. He just fell to the ground. And he doesn't look there like he's conscious. He's down. Now, I'm just wondering...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: See, his hands now behind now his back, and they were able to finally get control of him.
Now, there's an internal affairs investigation...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No, no, and you make some solid points.
Look, and I think that your best point in all of this just to -- you and talking...
BROOKS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: And I know you have got a lot more experience. And the reason we have you on is because it's unfair to talk about something without considering the other point of view.
BROOKS: Right. Exactly.
SANCHEZ: And the other point of view is the police officers. And we see this and it's overdramatized to us.
BROOKS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: If he took this thing right here and swung it, and -- and look at the weight of this, all right?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Well, I have been hit...
SANCHEZ: Robert, give me your hand. Feel the weight of that, Robert. Feel the weight of that right there.
BROOKS: I have been hit with them before.
SANCHEZ: I mean, that -- that's -- that's heavy.
BROOKS: And you -- if you have got that -- if you have got that open blade, if you have got that open blade, like this, and you're trying to cuff him, you have got sharp edges.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Reason enough to immediately, with haste, want to put him -- want to arrest him.
BROOKS: Right.
One other point. After he washed all the blood away, what was he treated for? A bloody nose and a swollen lip. You did not see any lacerations. They said that -- they said in the report they hit him with an open hand, no lacerations on his face, no stitches.
SANCHEZ: You know how much I respect you and enjoy these conversations.
BROOKS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: But a final point, police officers more often than not need to learn to de-escalate, not escalate.
BROOKS: Well, you know...
SANCHEZ: Couldn't you, a smart guy like you are with a lot of experience, have dealt with that without it having to come to that, without saying, come on, young man, let me have a conversation with you about this?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're 14 years old.
BROOKS: You really can't say.
Now, if they didn't do this, Rick, they do have Tasers. Officers carry Tasers.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Should they have pepper-sprayed him? Should they have hit him with a nightstick? All of these would have all looked bad. Was this the best way to handle it? That's what the investigation will come out.
SANCHEZ: All right.
We're asking the questions that many of our -- in fact, you just mentioned that.
BROOKS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Take that My -- Robert, turn -- turn that camera around, if you can. Take that MySpace.
"This makes me sick. There's way too much of this going on in our police departments. For dancing in front of their car? They could have killed this child. No excuse."
Now, you would argue this was not anywhere near killing the child.
BROOKS: No, no, not at all.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But there was another one there just a moment ago that raised the question...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: And it was not just for dancing in front of the car.
SANCHEZ: Why didn't they pepper-spray him? Why didn't they use something else? That there needs to be another vehicle.
Well, you know, we will continue to look into it.
BROOKS: Yes, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: And our goal is to present both sides. And I'm glad you were here to give us that. BROOKS: Thanks, Rick. No, absolutely. Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: The Republican comeback has begun. It is under way, and it is not in Washington.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That is Republican Chairman Michael Steele. He says Republicans are scared to go after Barack Obama. And he's implying it's time for a direct attack. And that's not all he says. This is interesting.
Also, a new report suggests that Donald Rumsfeld dragged his feet getting federal aid to Katrina victims. Why? I'm going to be asking Wayne Slater that question, which as good as Mike Brooks on these kind of things.
Also, why are special-needs children being tied to chairs and in some case are dying in schools in the United States today? That's what Congress wants to know and that's why they're looking into it, and so are we.
Stay with us. We will be right back, a lot of stuff.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.
As you might imagine, we are getting a ton of reaction to that video that we showed just moments ago and the discussion that we had with our law enforcement analyst, Mike Brooks. We are going to get to a lot of that in just a moment.
But before we do anything else, I want to tell you about the story that everybody seems to be talking about. It's in the world of politics. The head of the Republican Party gave a major speech today, where he said it's time for Republicans to stop being scared of Barack Obama.
Michael Steele is recommending a frontal assault against the president. And he says that the Republican Party has turned a corner now. He told RNC leaders that GOP soul-searching is over, and the party is now on a comeback. Those are Michael Steele's words in a very well-delivered speech. We are going to talk about the speech with Republican strategist Rich Galen right and also our Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, who, by the way, have plenty to -- plenty of fodder here today. But, listen, guys, I want to show you something, first of all. I think this is interesting, because there's an analysis that has been done by the Gallup Organization. It was released, interestingly enough, just today, and it's really not great news for Steele's party. Just as he's saying they have turned the corner, it actually shows that between 2001 to now -- in fact, go ahead and take it right here, if you can, guys. It's over my shoulder. All right, there it is right there. See that all green?
This is from 2001 to now. The party, the GOP has lost support with every major demographic constituency, except for one. You see these right there. All right, let get on here. All right, look at this. See that long green line right there? That's 18- to 29-year- olds, down 9 percent.
Now, every green line means it's a loss, right? So they're down everywhere, the Midwest, the industrial area where Republicans used to do very well, down almost 10 percent. Look at this up here. People with college educations, college graduates, down the most, 10 percent.
Areas where they do well, but still losing? People who didn't graduate from college, down the least, conservatives, still down. They're losing conservatives. The only area where they're flat is people who go to church at least once a week. That's what that says right there, frequency in going to church.
So, that's the situation. Rich Galen, what...
RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes? I read -- I read...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Is that turning the corner?
GALEN: I read that -- no, I read the Gallup poll today. I was shocked that it wasn't worse.
I was -- when they say -- 19 to 24 -- or whatever that was -- 29- year-olds, that we're only down 9 percent, I said, that cannot be right. That's just not enough.
SANCHEZ: But taking it cumulatively, I mean, look at this, man. There's green just about everywhere.
GALEN: No, I understand that.
But, no, my point is that, from -- it's -- from 2001 to now, to be down what I think is a relative, very, you know, not far off the margin of error, I think is probably better news for Republicans than certainly I would have thought and I think a lot of people would have thought.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Maria, what do you make of the -- what do you make of the fact that the areas that they're down the most on are college graduates and 18- to 29-year-olds?
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Oh, I think it demonstrates once again the -- the dire straits that this Republican Party is in, because that's where the growth is.
And, as you know, Rick, that the other problem that they're facing is Hispanics. There was a front-page report yesterday in Politico about how tons of Hispanics have fled their party. That's where the growth is as well.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know, that was all about the tone of the immigration debate, not the reason...
CARDONA: That's exactly right.
SANCHEZ: ... not the reason for the immigration debate, because much of what they were saying was absolutely correct. The tone, though, was very, very different, and it was taken by a lot of Hispanics as being insulting.
By the way, let's listen...
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Of course, as they should.
SANCHEZ: I want you to listen to Steele here real quick, all right?
CARDONA: Sure.
SANCHEZ: This is the first sound bite, as we call it, from Michael Steele. Then we will get your reaction on the other side. Here it is.
(CROSSTALK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEELE: The time for trying to fix or focus on the past has ended, the era of Republican naval-gazing, done. We have turned the corner on regret, recrimination, self-pity, and self-doubt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Rich, that's those are good lines.
(CROSSTALK)
GALEN: Yes. I know. It's fine. But here -- let me -- and I think Maria will agree with me on this.
In the off year in the midterms, in this case 2010, the national committees have much less to do with success and failure than the campaign committees. The House and Senate Republican -- the Republican and Democratic House and Senate campaign committees really control it, because those are district by district, state by state.
What the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, and the RNC, the Republican National Committee, do is they are transfer agents. They transfer data. They transfer money. They transfer talent. But they're not the ones that actually win and lose these elections.
I'm glad that Michael Steele has finally got his legs back under him, but that's not where the action is.
(CROSSTALK)
GALEN: It's in the campaign committees.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you, Maria, to watch this sound bite from Michael Steele talking about hitting Barack Obama right in the chops and that too many Republicans are afraid of him. Listen to how he says this.
CARDONA: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEELE: We have seen strategists writing memos and doing briefings urging the Republicans avoid confronting the president, steer clear of any frontal assaults on his administration. They suggest that, instead, we should go after Nancy Pelosi, who nobody likes, or Harry Reid, who nobody knows...
(LAUGHTER)
STEELE: ... or this Tim Geithner fellow, who nobody believes, or maybe even Barney Frank, who nobody understands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: "Who nobody understands."
I got to tell you, that's well-written stuff, agree with it or not.
Maria, your take?
CARDONA: Well, I think, again, I sort of feel sorry for Michael Steele, because he really has nowhere to go.
And he's advocating for attacking this president. Those are exactly the kind of politics of the past that President Obama campaigned against. And he won. This is not what Americans want. Americans want to hear real solutions to the problems they're facing.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No, but forget that. Forget that.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Where were the new ideas? Where were the new ideas in his speech?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's talk about the politics of this. You guys are -- you guys understand what you do here. Is it the right time for a frontal assault on Barack Obama? Because his polls came out yesterday, and he's saying high. So, nothing else is working.
Rich?
GALEN: Yes, well, the -- I mean, I think the place where I disagree with Michael Steele is the construct of attacking Barack Obama.
I think it's -- it's -- what we need to do is to avoid ad hominem attacks on anybody. And -- and I think that's -- that's something that Republicans sort of have a corner on, or at least we get blamed for it.
But I do agree with him that attacking the policies, attacking the enormity of the change in the way America as a country does business is loaded with fruit for Republicans, and it's pretty low- hanging fruit.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: With possibility, as Bill Bennett would say, and a lot of the -- and a lot of the arguments being made on -- are correct about that.
CARDONA: Well...
SANCHEZ: It's certainly something all Americans should be looking at to see if it's too far-reaching.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Maria, take us out in 10 seconds, because we have got to go.
CARDONA: Sure.
Part of the problem is that he's using the word attack. They need to provide new solutions, new creative solutions and new leaders. As long as they have Dick and Newt and Rush as their leaders, they're in big trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
GALEN: They need -- they need Maria.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I can't believe you used those -- just their first names, wink, wink.
Thanks a lot.
Maria, thanks so much to you.
CARDONA: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: And, as usual, Rich, we will see you again.
GALEN: See you, bud.
SANCHEZ: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRICE: Cedric struggled as he was being held in a chair, so the teacher put him face down and sat on him. He struggled and said repeatedly, "I can't breathe."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Unbelievable stories about children with disabilities being abused at school, as told by parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... interesting anecdote about your space walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I think I might have set a record for prayers said during a space walk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, normally, it would just be two guys talking and you would say, Rick, why are you showing me that, right? Well, these guys are in outer space. And five days, five space walks, and you're going to get to see what they do for yourself up close and personal.
And then, by the way, we're waiting for President Obama. He's scheduled to speak in about, oh, 10 minutes or so, going to be giving -- delivering a speech. All right, you got -- have we got the shot? There it is. Thanks, Dan. You're way ahead of me again. That is where the president's going to be speaking to the Small Business Administration. I think there we see some Secret Service guys making sure everything is going right.
Stay with us. We will take it live as it happens right here on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We got an iReport coming in. This is our way of checking with you, so you can -- this is citizen journalism, folks. I believe it's over Lake Pontchartrain. Let's -- Jacqui is going to be taking us through this. That's Jackie's voice you will hear in the background.
Jacqui, what you got?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Oh, amazing pictures. This is actually from Saturday night -- iReporter Alex Raymond (ph) and Eric Miller (ph) shot this video. They were just heading out for a night with the guys and happened to catch that.
Look at that. Just amazing. It's a really strong waterspout. And it was just right over Lake Pontchartrain, as you mentioned.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
JERAS: And, actually, eventually made its way to the shore in Metairie and caused a little bit of property damage. But, you know, this is a high-based storm. You can see how up that reaches, but really strong rotation, amazing pictures. Certainly would not recommend this at home, by the way, trying to chase this thing.
But can we listen to a little bit of the raw, because it's really interesting to listen. Go ahead.
Wow. You can really just hear the force of the wind in that. You can see some of the lightning in the background, just really incredible pictures. The National Weather Service did confirm that there was a waterspout and did produce some of this damage, pretty short-lived, though, Rick, only lasted five to seven minutes.
SANCHEZ: And if the waterspout reaches land, it no longer is a waterspout. It effectively becomes a tornado, right?
(CROSSTALK)
JERAS: That's correct, sir.
SANCHEZ: That's amazing. Wow. That's a big, thick one, too. Look at that thing.
JERAS: It is. Yes. We got it on radar, too, by the way. We did a little time lapse and went over it for you. And there you can see it coming off the lake and moving right over Metairie.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff. Jacqui, hey, thanks so much.
JERAS: Sure thing.
SANCHEZ: You know, there's heartbreaking testimony in Washington today about children being restrained and secluded in schools. Investigators documented hundreds of cases of alleged abuse against kids whose teachers felt they needed to somehow control them, but many of these children were autistic.
Here's one parent's story of her child who she says was only caught stealing candy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONI PRICE, MOTHER: Cedric was short.
He was a little -- he was a little boy. Cedric struggled as -- Cedric struggled as he was being held in a chair, so the teacher put him face down and sat on him. He struggled and said repeatedly, "I can't breathe."
"If you can talk, if you can speak, you can breathe," she snapped at him.
Shortly after that, he stopped speaking and he stopped struggling and he stopped moving. The teacher continued to restrain him. Finally, the teacher -- finally, the teacher and aides put Cedric back into his chair and wiped the drool from his mouth and sat him up.
But he slumped over and slipped out of the chair. Precious moments passed before a nurse was called. I received a call at work that Cedric was not breathing and an ambulance had been called.
I rushed to the school, not completely clear of what was going on and what was happening. When I got to the school, my son was laying on the floor with a paramedic beside him.
I knelt down and said: "Cedric, get up. You're not going to be in trouble."
But Cedric didn't move. Instead, the paramedic stood me up. My son was dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "My son was dead."
It's amazing this has become the kind of problem it has around the country, with more than 100 cases like hers reported, one of the witnesses testifying today before Congress at today's hearing on alleged abuse at schools.
Why would Donald Rumsfeld delay or obstruct the rescue of Katrina victims? Why would he do that? Did they not matter enough to him is a that is being question asked on this day. And why are we hearing about this now for the first time, with everything that's already been discussed about Katrina and all the other folks who we thought were blamed?
Also, President Obama's about to take to the microphone for the small-business leaders. There's the shot. He will walk in. And, when he does, you will see it live right here on CNN.
Stay with us. We will be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Well, we've got a lot of comments coming in. Let's take a couple of those real quick right now before we go to Barack Obama event which is scheduled to take place any moment now.
Let's go to Sarah Childers. She's on our Twitter board. And she is saying, "Being autistic myself, I truly feel for the ESE victims. Proper training of teachers is crucial for ESE teachers and faculty."
And we've also got a comment here on Michael Steele, the third one right there -- bajangirl12 says, "Steele will sorry tomorrow if Rush is upset. LOL."
Interesting how that works.
All right. I want you to take part in this follow-up that we're going to do now. This is a follow-up on something that we started yesterday.
This is the portrayal of Donald Rumsfeld as what you might call a rogue element within the Bush administration. We have heard versions of this before, but there's a new report out that contains some new specifics like this one.
As defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld reportedly held up military aid to New Orleans in the days after Hurricane Katrina. It got him into a tussle with Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff and eventually earned him a rare dressing down from President Bush.
Joining me now from Austin, Texas, is Wayne Slater of "The Dallas Morning News," co-author of "Bush's Brain."
Wayne, good to see you.
WAYNE SLATER, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": Great to see you.
SANCHEZ: Why would Donald Rumsfeld not want to help the people of New Orleans in this situation given that he had the finger on the military relief?
SLATER: Well, that was the point. He had his finger on the military relief and wanted to keep it.
This was a turf battle. It's interesting that Rumsfeld, I think nobody doubts, reflected an attitude of certitude maybe, arrogance. This caused problems overseas, and now we find out that sort of attitude about things caused problems here at home.
I don't think he -- he wasn't thinking in terms of hurting people. I'm sure of that. What he was thinking about was protecting his own turf and interpreting everything as a challenge.
SANCHEZ: You know what's interesting -- and by the way, you and I might be tossing it over to the president any minute now. And when we do that, hold on, because I'll bring you back and we'll do some analysis of the president.
But in this "GQ" story that everyone seems to be talking about, and we've followed up on for the second day now, it portrays President Bush as getting fed up with Rumsfeld at one point, quoting him as saying, "Rumsfeld, what the hell is going on here in New Orleans?" I mean, that's a direct quote from the president.
"What are you doing? Is this part of..."
And, you know, at one point he says, "Don, do it." This is quoting President Bush, a President Bush we haven't heard of before.
One wonders what's going on here. Is this part of the legacy building for the president?
SLATER: That's exactly what this is, Rick. This is legacy- building time. The administration's out. Folks on different parts of the administration are pointing fingers, trying to make somebody else look bad so that they look good.
You know, it's interesting...
SANCHEZ: But it doesn't make him look good. It makes him look like a guy who was being controlled by a bunch of bullies.
SLATER: Well, that's exactly it. If Lincoln had a sort of team of rivals -- it now appears that Bush was presiding over a reign of bullies, with Cheney and Rumsfeld and Karl Rove pushing the partisan agenda. And so, by comparison, you're right, Bush seems a bit weak, but by comparison, he certainly looks better than these guys. And I think that's part of the legacy-building effort by the leakers for this piece -- I don't doubt it -- who want to make him look good.
SANCHEZ: You wrote the book on these guys. I mean, who's back there pulling the strings? Who's in the back room saying, you know what, here's the way to have the legacy go? It didn't go all well for this guy, for our president. However, it wasn't all his fault. It was a bunch of guys around him who were pulling his strings.
SLATER: Well, I think with respect to this piece and other things that have been written, the number one person is Karl Rove. He's the big legacy builder. But there are others, there area others in the administration who weren't very happy about Don Rumsfeld, others who aren't that excited about Dick Cheney, folks who really believe that George Bush was not well treated, was not well served by some of the people around him. And although he left office with one of the lowest approval ratings of any president, by comparison this legacy-building process might lift him a bit so that people will think, well, he's not as bad as those other guys.
SANCHEZ: He's not so bad. He was a good guy after all.
You know what's interesting about this? I'm going to tie these two stories now.
You and I had a conversation about this, and the folks at home probably remember, the story about Abu Ghraib and why it is that Lynndie England and some of these other people went to prisons, while, you know, the vice president and the secretary of defense did not. And now we hear that they may have been responsible.
Well, same situation here. There were so many people who were criticized after Katrina -- the mayor, the city council, the governor, the president. Now, again, we start hearing, look who really was in many ways at fault.
There's starting to be a pattern here, isn't there?
SLATER: Absolutely a pattern. You say it in Abu Ghraib.
After Katrina, we saw congressional investigations. They sent it high level inquiry, which really, at the end, didn't do much except to say, Brownie, Michael Brown, and as you said, the mayor and the governor of Louisiana, contributed to the problem. But you never saw this stuff about Rumsfeld, you never really saw the people at the top.
It was people lower down who took the fall, exactly what happened in Abu Ghraib, where there was in investigation. And that's not to say that the people who got caught up in it were guiltless, but it is to say that it's amazing how the people at the top always seem to escape responsibility.
SANCHEZ: And not just the people at the top, but the same people.
SLATER: Same people.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It does make you wonder.
Wayne Slater, thanks for being -- hey, hang out in case I've got to bring you back if the president makes some news on this thing.
SLATER: Very good. I'll be here.
SANCHEZ: We might be going to him in just a little bit.
Thanks, Wayne. We appreciate it.
Again, let's go to that shot if we possibly can.
You got it, Dan? All right.
The president's going to be walking out of that door any moment now. There you see part of the Marine Guard that protects the president, as they do embassies.
Let's sneak in a break. Let's try it. Let's sneak in a break. And when we come back, hopefully we'll be able to take the president live.
Let's do it, Dan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Busy show, as usual.
This is an awards assembly that you're watching right now. Those two ladies are Karen Mills and Lisa Pineiro, one from North Carolina small business, the other is the Small Business Administration administrator for the United States.
They're in the business of giving out some awards right now, and I know that might end up being a little boring for us. So I want to sneak in another story until the president starts to speak, and then you'll be able to listen to him live.
This is about Atlanta's astronauts today releasing the Hubble Space Telescope back into orbit. The repairs they made are supposed to keep Hubble running for another five to 10 years. And John Zarrella has an unbelievable look at what it's like to go on a repair call 350 miles above the Earth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN GRUNSFELD, ASTRONAUT, ATLANTIS SPACE SHUTTLE: Can you bring me a little more forward, Megan (ph)?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Astronaut John Grunsfeld pulled off some aluminum foil-like insulation from the Hubble telescope and stuck it in his space trash bag, replacing it with a hardened thermal shell.
ANDREW FEUSTEL, ASTRONAUT, ATLANTIS SPACE SHUTTLE: We're going right over Houston.
UNIDENTIFIED ASTRONAUT: That's right, Drew. Wave.
ZARRELLA: It was the last dance in an aerial ballet that played out over five days and five spacewalks some 350 miles above the Earth. Grunsfeld and fellow space mechanic Andrew Feustel changed out old Hubble batteries, replaced a sensor and peeled off crumbling insulation, some of it 19 years old and so deteriorated it simply fell apart and floated off.
GRUNSFELD: How's it look from the cabin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we're just seeing a lot of pieces, John.
GRUNSFELD: Yes, OK, stop there, Megan.
ZARRELLA: During the five grueling spacewalks, the two two-man astronaut teams replaced and fixed telescope cameras, changed out gyroscopes, installed a new computer. Many of the parts were never intended to be replaced.
GRUNSFELD: Go straight on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GRUNSFELD: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, standby.
ZARRELLA: On a couple of occasions, stuck bolts put the astronaut teams behind schedule, but by the end of this last repair day, they completed all the work. Grunsfeld took a few minutes to snap pictures for the Hubble scrapbook before packing up their tools. Then the astronauts, Grunsfeld went first, had some final thoughts.
GRUNSFELD: Hubble isn't just a satellite. It's about humanity's quest for knowledge.
ZARRELLA: For Grunsfeld, on his third mission to the telescope, Hubble is like an old friend.
GRUNSFELD: It's impossible not to give it human characteristics and feel sadness when we see it floating away.
ZARRELLA: With all its new upgrades, scientists say Hubble is a 1,000 times better telescope than when it was launched in 1990.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Lisa Pineiro is accepting the award right now for the Small Businessperson of the Year.
Wayne Slater standing by with us.
Wayne, how important is it for this president to come off as a business-minded president, as opposed to much of the criticism that he's getting from the right saying that he's a socialist?
SLATER: I think it's real important for that perfect reason. You have the right wing pounding on him day after day for the bailouts and, as I said, a liberal, a socialist. And yet, here you have a guy who really is tracking a fairly moderate line. What you see, for example, today with respect to the emissions standards is a case where he has brought together labor and the auto industry in a way that the previous administrations could not do to something -- do something dramatic.
SANCHEZ: So, if you're a Republican and you really want that socialist banner to stick, what do you go for here? Do you talk about the fact that he's spending so darn much money, so much of our money?
SLATER: Well, you do two things. You talk about -- you continue to talk about the bailouts. You talk about those until they start to work. And if that happens, then you don't talk about them anymore. That will be a while before we really know.
The other thing you talk about is anything that suggests tax increases, anything that suggests government intervention, reinforces that. And in this case, this is a government plan with respect to gas emissions, gasoline emissions on automobiles.
But if you criticize that as the government stepping in and mandating certain standards, when, in fact, what it really is, is something the industry wants, and that's instead of having patchwork of standards -- California has one thing, other states have others -- that the federal government established a uniform standard. And so, it is really quite remarkable that he's working at the behest both of the industry and, I as I say, and labor at a time that it's going to be very difficult for Republican critics to criticize him.
SANCHEZ: All right. Here we go. The president is being introduced now and he's going to say some words.
And Wayne, stick around. Let's see if he makes some news.
(APPLAUSE)
BARACK H. OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody.
AUDIENCE: Good afternoon.
OBAMA: And thank you, Lisa.
I think you can see that she's pretty good at making a pitch.
(LAUGHTER)
And we're grateful for sharing your story and enthusiasm with all of us.
And congratulations to you and everybody who's being honored here today, and some of America's most outstanding business owners and lenders and counselors and coaches.
I want, also, all of you to know that I am so pleased with my selection as SBA administrator. Karen Mills is somebody who is passionate about small business, she understands the ins and outs of it, the nuances of it. She is fighting for bringing SBA into the 21st century. And so I think you will find just an outstanding partner in her, and please give her a big round of applause.
(APPLAUSE)
You know, look, running a successful small business is impressive in any year, but it's especially impressive this year, at this moment, when we're facing the most serious economic downturn in generations. And I know what you do isn't easy.
I know that for every contract you've won, every sale that you have made and job you have created, you have had plenty of setbacks and false starts and late nights wondering how on earth you're going to keep everything together and why you decided to take this path in the first place. But you kept going.
You scrimped and you saved and you borrowed and you improvised, and your failures didn't discourage you. They educated you and they motivated you to succeed the next time around. And today we honor that courage and determination and daring just as much as we honor the success that it ultimately brought you. And that's the spirit that led Lisa, a single mom, a former hair stylist -- although, you know, the hair looks good, so you...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm good. Good. I cut hair in the back room.
OBAMA: In the back room? While she's scooping ice cream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Running the construction company.
OBAMA: Running the construction company. She's been doing her hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.
OBAMA: I think there was a song about you, wasn't there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. "She Works Hard for the Money."
OBAMA: Right. Yes.
To set out a little over 10 years ago with nothing from a loan from her parents and a big idea. And her company now has 78 employees, it's grossed nearly $4 million in sales last year.
It's what led Tom Masterson -- where's Tom? Tom's right here.
Tom, after working for 30 years in the electrical industry to co- found TEM Electric, funded it entirely on his own and working out of his living room until he won his first major contract. Today the company employs 75 people and has over $12 million in revenues.
It's what led Andy Wells, a member of the Red Lake Ojibwa Tribe, to invest $1,300 back in 1989 -- where's Andy? Right here -- $1,300 in 1989 to found Wells Technology, manufacturing industrial tools and fasteners, and creating jobs near reservations in Minnesota, where he lives. In 2008, his company generated $54 million in revenues and his customers included Coca-Cola and Boeing and OshKosh.
So small businesses like these are driving our economy. You the job creators responsible for half of all private sector jobs. You're innovators, producing 13 times more patents per employee than large companies. You're the starting point for the products and brands that have redefined the market.
After all, Google started out as a small business. That was a research project. Hewlett-Packard began with two guys in a garage. The first Apple computers were built by hand one at a time. McDonald's started with just one restaurant.
And small businesses don't just strengthen our economy, they also strengthen our communities. You know, your customers aren't just anonymous folks who buy what you sell. They are your friends, they're your neighbors. The place where you set up shop often isn't just your business address, but it's also your hometown and sometimes it's your home. And I know what you do to give back, sponsoring sports leagues and service projects, serving on boards, donating charities, mentoring other small business owners to help them be as successful as you are.
So with all that you do for this nation, I think our nation's government should be there to support you, to help you grow and expand and succeed. So I am pleased that nearly all of you have benefited from SBA services, from SBA loans, programs, advice, counseling. And I'm pleased about that, but I'm not satisfied.
I think we can do more. We can do more to help small business owners, especially right now. And that's why our recovery plan raises the guarantees on SBA loans to 90 percent, eliminates costly fees for borrowers and lenders, and includes a series of tax cuts for small businesses, as well as incentives to encourage investment in small businesses.
And that's why my proposed budget reduces the capital gains taxes for investments in smaller start-up businesses to zero. Zero capital gains tax.
That's why I intend to pass comprehensive health care reform this year, so we can lower costs, raise quality, and make it easier for many of you to not only get health care for your employees, but also for yourselves. And that's why we're announcing a new SBA loan program, America's Recovery Capital, or ARC program.
And this new program will provide up to $35,000 to help struggling but still creditworthy small businesses pay off non-SBA debts, money they can use to pay suppliers and vendors, or pay down credit card debts. And the loans will be guaranteed 100 percent by the SBA, and they'll be available starting June 15th. And I believe they will be a lifeline to help viable small businesses through these difficult times.
So, all of this is a good start, but it's only a start. We still have much work ahead to support our small businesses and restore our economy.
It won't be easy. We'll need to be bold and creative and take risks just like all of you have done. But that's always been the American story, that belief that all things are possible, that we are limited only by our willingness to take a chance and work hard to achieve our dreams. And I'm confident that we will do exactly that. Together, we are going to meet the challenges of our times.
So, congratulations again to all of you for what you've succeeded. And please make sure to keep feeding us good ideas so that we can help you help the American economy and the American people.
Thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: As we watch the president now shaking hands with the winner of this year's Small Business Award and the small business administrator, we can't help but mention, Wayne Slater, if you still are listening, that these are the very people that the right will say will be overburdened and overtaxed by the Obama economic plan.
SLATER: That is exactly what he's going to say. That's what they're already saying. And that's really the subtext of this announcement today.
It is that I, Barack Obama, and this administration, we are not the enemy of small business. We are the friend of small business. We are not a socialist operation.
We really understand that having been given an economic conflagration, that we understand that small business really does produce the jobs that we need. And I'm going to do something about it.
Now, that's what you talk about today. We'll see what they actually do in the future.
SANCHEZ: Yes. The jury is still out on this one, I think a lot of people on both sides would argue.
Wayne Slater, thanks for helping us get through this.
SLATER: Great to be with you.
SANCHEZ: Likewise. We'll see you again soon, my friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When will members be allowed to choose a new speaker with the moral authority to clean up Westminster and the legitimacy to let this House (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many out there will not believe that we are serious about the changes that are necessary as long as you are in the chair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your early retirement, sir, would help the reputation of the House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Your early retirement, sir, would help the reputation of the -- talk about a stiff upper lip and a whole lot of anger in the British Parliament. This is fun to watch. And you're going to see it for yourself.
They're mad about how -- well, about how the guys in parliament spent the people's money. We'll take you through it.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: "Never do a British accent on the air again," is what Maggie is telling me on Twitter.
Go ahead. Shoot that if you can.
It says, "We love you, but that wasn't fun to watch."
OK. I promise I won't do it. But it's contagious when you watch somebody speaking with a British accent, like you are about to in this report about the parliament scandal in England.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was brief and to the point. No flowery speeches or apologies. Just the final word on Michael Martin's political career as speaker of the House of Commons.
MICHAEL MARTIN, HOUSE OF COMMONS SPEAKER: I have to say that I will relinquish the office of speaker on Sunday, the 21st of June. This will allow the House to proceed to elect a new speaker on Monday, 22nd of June. That is all I have to say on this matter.
SHUBERT: This is the problem, luxury house payments, chandeliers and Jacuzzis, some of the exorbitant personal expenses claimed by dozens of members of parliament across all major political parties and all at taxpayers' expense.
Michael Martin was the man responsible for overseeing approval of these expenses, and he is now the highest ranking politician to pay the price amid growing public anger. At least one minister has already handed in his letter of resignation. Other MPs have announced they will not seek reelection.
And the speaker of the House isn't the only one threatened with losing his job as a result of the scandal. A recent poll showed that more than 60 percent of Labour Party members and supporters want British Prime Minister Gordon Brown to be replaced as party leader.
As the prime minister's conservative opponents called for fresh elections, he scrambled to promise reform.
GORDON BROWN, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: No member of parliament and no candidate will stand for the Labour Party at the next election if they defy the rules. We're now setting up a process which will start today where we will examine the expenses of every MP going back for four years. If they have been found to have broken the rules, then action will be taken for a fundamental rethink of the system, a root and branch reform.
SHUBERT (on camera): So, will the resignation of the speaker be enough to quell public anger? Well, perhaps not. Britain is in the midst of a deep recession and now faces a political crisis. Voters may be looking for more heads to roll.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: By the way, we just got a response from Donald Rumsfeld on that story we told just moments ago. Quoting Rumsfeld now that he was "... fully aware that words and actions could be harmful and counterproductive to the war effort. It's safe to say that some of these cover slides could be considered in that category."
Again, suggesting that there is questions about Draper's story. Reading to you from "GQ." Obviously, we'll go through this and continue to share information with you when we follow up on this tomorrow.
Thanks so much for being with us. We're out of time.
Wolf Blitzer is standing by now in "THE SITUATION ROOM.".
