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National Security Debate Between President Obama, Dick Cheney; Guantanamo: Open or Shut Case?; Buying a Foreclosed Home; Battle Over Detainees; Guantanamo: Open or Shut Case; California's Budget: Now What; States Hike Taxes; Refugees Struggle After Civil War

Aired May 21, 2009 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Candy Crowley is at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington where former Vice President Cheney just spoke.

Candy, good to spend some time with you. Boy, if you would look back on this speech for us, what really is Dick Cheney's agenda here?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, I mean, he has told us and said, if I don't speak out, who is going to do it? This is a defense of the administration. You can talk about legacy certainly here.

He feels that the Bush administration, of which he was such a key part, has, in fact, been maligned. And he feels, as he said in this speech, that there have been half-truths told about what went on in the Bush administration. So there is some personal legacy here, but there is also, as he has said, as his family has said, that he feels strongly about these matters.

And I think you heard today that he believes that some of these things that President Obama has undone -- the surveillance program, along with the so-called enhanced techniques of interrogation -- he feels that those things -- taking away those things make the country less safe. And his family has said he truly believes this and he thinks someone needs to speak out.

HARRIS: And Candy, let me ask it as a question. Does the former vice president believe that President Obama is proposing policies that will make the country less safe?

CROWLEY: He believes that's what happened, and I think he believes, as we heard President Obama say when he was criticizing Bush administration policies, which is, I think they did this with the intense of keeping the country safe, but it isn't. I think you would hear the same thing from the former vice president, though he did not specifically address that today.

HARRIS: So what is it that, in your view, the former vice president wants here? Does he want indefinite detention? Does he want waterboarding, for example, to continue?

CROWLEY: Well, certainly he believes that, and, yes, he said he thinks that these -- and he pointed out that, in fact, the right for the president -- for President Obama to in fact reinstitute so-called enhanced techniques has been kept. So, yes, that's clearly what he believes, and that's what he thinks, the Guantanamo Bay prison has served a purpose and should continue to do that, that none of these suspects or detainees should be brought into the U.S. And he does believe very strongly, as he has said repeatedly, that those enhanced torture techniques got information about other plans that al Qaeda had that he believes would have killed, as he puts it, thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans. So, yes, he does believe those things should stay in place.

HARRIS: And he -- and in doing so, he totally rejects the idea that the president put forward, that a decision was made on Guantanamo Bay on these techniques when America went to the polls on November 4th.

CROWLEY: Well, he believes certainly -- I'm not sure how he would answer that question, but certainly I think that the former vice president would tell you -- and he, in fact, said it in this speech -- that he believes only half the story has been told. That all that Americans know at this point is that these techniques were used, and that they are being told that they were not effective. And, of course, he says there are papers that show otherwise, and he would like them released.

So whether -- what he thinks the election said is probably not as germane as the fact that he believes only half the story is being told about what the Bush administration did, but about what it actually got out of it.

HARRIS: You handled that so well.

Candy Crowley for us.

Candy, appreciate it. Thank you.

And here is how the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on some key cases involving Guantanamo detainees.

June, 2004, the landmark case Rasul v. Bush, the Supreme Court ruled that the U.S. courts have jurisdiction to hear appeals from foreign nationals who are challenging their detention. Military commissions which were established by President Bush to try al Qaeda operatives were struck down by the court in 2006. The Supreme Court held that the commission system violated U.S. and international laws. And then just last year, around this time, the court once again reaffirmed the finding back in 2004 that detainees are entitled to the privilege of habeas corpus to challenge the legality of their detention.

A majority of Americans still don't like Dick Cheney, but his poll numbers are up a bit since he left office. A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows the former vice president now has a favorable rating of 37 percent. That's compared to 29 percent in January.

Former President Bush faring a bit better. He has a favorable rating of 41 percent, compared to 35 percent in January. All right. And in just a moment we will talk to our Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash to find out how this debate is playing there.

We have heard from President Obama and former Vice President Dick Cheney in back-to-back speeches on national security and the future of Guantanamo Bay. Now we want to hear from you.

What should happen to the terrorism suspects at Gitmo? Send us your comments at CNN.com/newsroom, and we will share them a bit later in this hour.

And in the middle of all this controversy over what to do with terror suspects, a terror plot is uncovered in New York. Four men charged in a plan to bomb a synagogue and Jewish community center in New York are now facing federal charges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Congress sends President Obama a message on Guantanamo: Give us a plan before we give you money to shut it down.

Our Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash live from Capitol Hill.

Dana, two speeches, two different perspectives, to be sure, on national security. One seemingly looking to the future. The other seemingly looking to the past.

Any reaction from lawmakers?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first and foremost, we're talking about President Obama. I mean, the crux of what Congress wanted to hear was more information, more details on what his plan is to close Guantanamo Bay, because that has been the heart of the pushback here in Congress, why his fellow Democrats really gave him a bit of a political slap in denying his request for money for that.

Well, generally, Democrats, they were given the speech this morning by the White House. They knew he wasn't going to give very many more details, and they understand that it's going to probably be at least a month before they get that.

So they're not satisfied, but they knew they weren't going to be satisfied. But, you know, the other interesting question is for some members of Congress who are potentially in areas, in districts where perhaps some of these detainees could be brought.

And we actually, Tony, watched this speech with Congressman Doug Lamborn. His district houses the Supermax prison in Colorado. He is somebody who adamantly does not want those detainees to be brought to that Supermax prison, the very prison that has housed other terror suspects.

Listen to what he told us right after watching the president's speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DOUG LAMBORN (R), COLORADO: The president did not say where those people would go. The president did not say where people would go who are convicted under military tribunals, or who are to be released by courts, or who are in the "too dangerous to release" category. So his plan today really has a lot of gaps in it, and I'm really disturbed by the lack of thinking this process out.

Maybe it's a little farther out than it was before, but there's still huge gaps in the president's discussion. So I really don't see much of a plan here. He doesn't say where they will go after they're found guilty by a military tribunal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So you hear there this is obviously a Republican. He's a Republican who doesn't want Guantanamo Bay closed at all.

But just very quickly, Tony, going back to the Democrats, I mean, the president had some -- his speech, in some parts, was very, very political. And there was one part in particular where he said, I get it. I get that this is the kind of the thing that is going to prompt 30-second ads.

Well, let me tell you, there are a lot of frustrated Democrats here who say if you get it and you got this, why on earth did you send us a request to fund Guantanamo without a plan and leave us hanging politically, if you get that this is such a political hot potato.

HARRIS: Wow. All right.

Our Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash.

Boy, what a maelstrom this is.

Dana, appreciate it. Thank you.

BASH: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: The Guantanamo prison has been a source of controversy since the first group of detainees arrived on January 11, 2002. There were 20 of them captured during the Afghan War at Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. They were held in open-air cages with concrete floors.

Remember those days?

The International Committee of the Red Cross made its first visit to see them about a week after they arrived. Former Vice President Dick Cheney at that time called the detainees "the worst of a very bad lot." He said, "They are very dangerous. They are devoted to killing millions of Americans."

A few months later, those detainees were moved from Camp X-Ray to a more permanent facility known as Camp Delta. In the coming years, there would be questions about their treatment.

We will get to some of the court rulings a little later.

For now, fast forward to 2009. President Obama signs an executive order to close Guantanamo Bay within a year.

If you're trying to pay down your credit card, shifting gears here, what should you look for in a counseling service? We have got some answers for you coming up next in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Well, he was in the audience for President Obama's speech this morning. Charles Swift is a criminal defense attorney and former naval JAG officer. He represented Osama bin Laden's driver. Salim Hamdan's detention at Guantanamo Bay led to a landmark Supreme Court case.

Charles, good to see you again. Welcome back to the program.

CHARLES SWIFT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good to be here.

HARRIS: The critical question, you know, I don't have to beat around the bush with you, that's for sure. Straight to the critical question here. What do we do with those detainees who we don't have good prosecutable evidence on, who we believe would plot against the country if released?

SWIFT: Well, the president made clear today what we're not going to do is release them. What we need to do, and this will have to be done on a case-by-case basis -- and it would be impossible for the president to lay out a strategy where he sat with each person and said, OK, this is the strategy. What we need to do is use the existing rules of law and any new rules that might be necessary to be derived, but holding true to the Constitution, deriving those within the constitutional framework, a way to hold them and protect against attacks.

The theory that you can hold your enemies during time of war is not one that we disagreed with in Hamdan at all. In fact, that is the law. And the president starts from the point of the law, and I think that's the real absolute difference between this president and the previous administration.

The previous administration sought ways around the law. This president seeks to follow the law and keep us safe. And he believes in the long haul, as so do I, that following the law and following our values, in conjunction with holding terrorists, is absolutely essential to both winning the war and being safe.

HARRIS: Charles, help me here, former naval JAG officer. Honestly here, is waterboarding torture?

SWIFT: Absolutely.

HARRIS: Has it been -- has it always been illegal? SWIFT: Well, I'll cite you to case and verse, the first case being in the Philippines, where the United States prosecuted a major -- or, excuse me, a captain in the Marine Corps for using waterboarding against a Filipino prisoner and drummed him out of the service for the crime. We prosecuted the Japanese for waterboarding our prisoners...

HARRIS: Why does the former vice president continue to defend waterboarding? And by his comments today, he seems to be suggesting that it should continue as an interrogation technique.

SWIFT: It mystifies me. I think...

HARRIS: Well, you can't be mystified. You've got to help all of us who are watching this.

SWIFT: Well, you know, I want to ascribe to people the best of motives, and I presume that the president -- the former vice president believes, for whatever reason, that force is the only thing that works. Unfortunately, that goes against all of the evidence, or fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it.

One of the people who was involved in the Hamdan is Ali Soufan. Ali Soufan was an FBI agent but, most importantly, he was fluent in Arabic and knew the facts.

Ali Soufan was far more successful in his interrogations than any of the people using waterboarding. And that's not surprising, because the same was true in the Korean War, the same was true in the Vietnam War, and the same was true in World War II. People who speak the language can make a cultural gap and get people talking. They're the ones who are successful. Torturing, as John McCain has said, gets you to do one of two things, tell them whatever you want to hear, which can lead to extraordinarily damaging false information, or to make up something to stop the torturing.

HARRIS: OK. Charles, last question.

If you admit to being a member of al Qaeda and the Taliban, then you're held until the fight against the Taliban or al Qaeda is over, whenever that is, presumably until the end of the conflict in Afghanistan. Is that the way it is, the way it should be?

SWIFT: It is the -- I believe on the part that if you are a member of a fighting force in the war in Afghanistan, on the opposition side, you can be held until the end of the war, absolutely.

HARRIS: Do we need new law? Does the president need to consider new law to cover these detainees?

SWIFT: For the vast majority the answer will be no, but there are some detainees, and the president recognizes this, who may have been taken in places other than Afghanistan. When everyone told you that the people in Guantanamo Bay were all captured with rifles on the battlefield in Afghanistan, they lied. That was not true. They misstated the truth. Many were taken in other places. Some on the streets of Egypt. Some in Africa. Some in the Philippines. Now, these are far from the battlefield.

HARRIS: Yes.

SWIFT: And the question now becomes, can you detain such a person? And that is the area of law that is developing.

HARRIS: Yes.

SWIFT: It is not clear-cut. It's what's unique about the al Qaeda campaign. And the president has -- I think that on the far left, people are very discouraged that the president is seeking ways to hold those people.

HARRIS: Thank you for making the point that the president is getting hammered on either side of this, Charles. And let's leave it there.

It's great to see you again. And thanks for your insights. Appreciate it.

SWIFT: You're very welcome.

HARRIS: Thanks, Charles.

SWIFT: Bye now.

HARRIS: The number of people filing for unemployment has reached an all-time high for the 16th week in a row. Proof of the job market, boy, still struggling. While the number of new claims dropped slightly from the week prior, 6.7 million people continue to receive benefits. That's 75,000 more people than last week.

The Congressional Budget Office says the economy will start growing in the second half of the year, but it will be several years until it fully recovers.

Time to get to Gerri here.

So prices are down and so are mortgage rates. A lot of you are buying homes, maybe even a foreclosure. Fifty-five percent of Americans say they're somewhat likely to consider buying a foreclosure now. RealtyTrac says that's up 8 percent since last fall.

What's the best way to buy a foreclosure?

Your Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis is going to tell you.

Gerri, good to see you.

You know, the bank seems to be a pretty logical place to start.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: They've got a lot of them, that's for sure. Hi, Tony.

Yes, for people who are especially new to buying foreclosures, buy from a bank. REOs, real estate-owned properties, are the best way to purchase a foreclosed property. These are homes that fail to show at auctions and then are put back on the market by the banks that own them. The bank clears any outstanding liens or loans against the House, and what's more, you will be able to inspect it first hand instead of just driving by and looking from the street.

Research your market. There are lots of places to get foreclosure listings.

Two places you might want to consider, RealtyTrac.com and ForeclosurePoint.com. Contact realtors, too, to get listings as well. These days, large numbers of realtors are specializing in the foreclosure market.

And as you evaluate these listings, make sure you don't buy in a neighborhood that has an unusually large number of foreclosed homes. That could really keep prices constrained for a long time.

Finally, check out the laws in your state. There are big differences in the process from state to state. Some states, for example, require that foreclosures go through the court system while others don't -- Tony.

HARRIS: How do I price my bid, Gerri?

WILLIS: This is tough. You know, in some markets banks aren't selling foreclosures at fire sale prices, which is what you would expect, right? You should try setting your initial offer price at 20 percent below market, more if your area has a lot of foreclosures.

Also know that the federal government is working to make that $8,000 tax credit for first-time homebuyers available immediately to qualified buyers. This could help close the gap if you don't have enough money for a down payment.

Some of the best markets to search for foreclosures, listen to this, southern Florida, a little vacation home there maybe; Vegas, Seattle; Colorado; southern California; places where local economies will continue to expand in the future and immigration continues.

So that's a way to think about foreclosures if you want to get in the market now. As you know, Tony, prices are down, down, down.

HARRIS: Hey, Gerri, before I let you go here, why don't you give us a preview of what's coming up this weekend on your show, "YOUR BOTTOM LINE," please?

WILLIS: Yes. Happy to do it.

Saturday morning, 9:30 a.m., right here on CNN, "YOUR BOTTOM LINE." We have a special event, a summer money special preparing you to save some serious cash over the coming months. We'll tackle summer employment opportunities, inexpensive travel, and, of course, how to haggle. Tips on getting the best price on everything from a new car to clothing and electronics.

I know you want to see that -- Tony.

HARRIS: I will be there, Gerri. Appreciate it. Have a great day.

WILLIS: You as well.

HARRIS: Experts say the recession is causing more and more people to become delinquent on their credit card payments. We talked with one woman who was paying down her debt with a little help. And it is something everyone out there can do for themselves.

Here is CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last summer, Maria Calderon was overwhelmed with credit card debt.

(on camera): So you had, what, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine different credit cards?

MARIA CALDERON, GETTING HELP WITH CREDIT CARD DEBT: Yes.

ZARRELLA: And you had -- when you went to them, you owed $21,000.

(voice-over): She was laughing at it when we talked to her in February, but last August she was so worried about her debt, she couldn't sleep.

CALDERON: Nights crying, thinking -- I'll say, "God, help me." And now I can say thank you.

ZARRELLA: Thank you because she found help. Maria called Consumer Credit Counseling Service of Palm Beach County.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you talked to the creditors?

ZARRELLA: CCCS is a nonprofit agency that counsels people in financial trouble. Maria's counselor negotiated lower interest rates with her creditors and put her on a repayment plan.

JESSICA CECERE, CCCS OF PALM BEACH COUNTY: This plan helps her get control of her debt so that she can repay her debt within 36 to 48 months, three to four years.

ZARRELLA: Credit advisers say choose your counseling program carefully.

STEVE BUCCI, AUTHOR, "CREDIT REPAIR KIT FOR DUMMIES": First, it should be a nonprofit agency. Second, it should be absolutely free to get your counseling and to get your advice. And third, you want to make sure that the agency is accredited and the counselors are certified by an independent third party.

ZARRELLA (on camera): With her repayment plan, Maria sends about $300 less each month to her credit card companies. How does it work? Lower interest payments mean more of Maria's money goes to paying off her balance.

Well, I guess under 10 percent now, right?

CALDERON: Yes.

ZARRELLA: And what were they charging you before you went to the Consumer Credit Counseling...

CALDERON: This specific one, I believe it was 23.

ZARRELLA: Twenty-three percent?

CALDERON: Yes.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): In February, Maria told us she wanted to buy a home once she paid off her debts, and she hoped this experience would teach her children to make smart financial decisions in their lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: You know, like so many Americans out there, Maria is struggling to pay her bills. The Consumer Credit Counseling Service tells CNN Maria's income has been reduced, and at this time she is not making any payments. However, the CCCS and other nonprofits like it will try to continue to help Americans work toward reducing their debt.

We will keep an eye on Maria as she tries to turn her situation around.

And you can see more of our series "Money & Main Street." Tonight, how to cope through these difficult economic times, this evening at 8:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

So what should happen to the terror detainees at Guantanamo? We will share what you have been saying next in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Keeping the country safe. Two speeches and two opposing views on national security from the president of the United States and the former vice president. A key part of debate, whether to close the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay and what to do with the 240 suspects still held there. The president says some will be tried, some released to other countries, and some pose a more difficult challenge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There remains the questions of detainees at Guantanamo who cannot be prosecuted, yet who pose a clear danger to the American people. And I have to be honest here. This is the toughest, single issue that we will face.

We're going to exhaust every avenue that we have to prosecute those at Guantanamo who pose a danger to our country. But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes. In some cases because evidence may be tainted, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States.

Examples of that threat include people who have received extensive explosives training at al Qaeda training camps, or commanded Taliban troops in battle, or expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden, or otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans. These are people who, in effect, remain at war with the United Sstates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: For his part, Cheney defended Bush era national security policies, including the use of enhanced interrogation techniques on Guantanamo prisoners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: It is a fact that only detainees of the highest intelligence value were ever subjected to enhanced interrogation. You've heard endlessly about waterboarding. It happened to three terrorists. One of them was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, who's also boasted about his beheading of Daniel Pearl.

We had a lot of blind spots after the attacks on our country. Things we didn't know about al Qaeda. We didn't about al Qaeda's plans, but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a few others did know. And with many thousands of innocent lives potentially in the balance, we did not think it made sense to let the terrorists answer questions in their own good time, if they answered them at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: So to the critical questions now. Should the Guantanamo Bay detention center be closed as President Obama wants? And where would the detainees go if it is shut down? Members of Congress are saying not in my backyard. Our Jim Acosta reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OBAMA: Guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Obama's promise to close Guantanamo by January of next year has run head-on into one of the oldest traditions in politics, not in my backyard.

REP. LAMAR SMITH, (R) TEXAS: Guantanamo Bay was never meant to be another Ellis Island. Terrorists were detained there for a reason, to keep Americans safe. ACOSTA: In a crushing defeat to the president, the Senate voted overwhelmingly to cut off funds to close the detention camp and block the transfer of detainees to the U.S.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS, (R) KANSAS: Well, I think the American people, by every poll that I saw, and, of course, all of the telephone calls that we were getting from Kansas, certainly do not want terrorists in the U.S. homeland.

REP. JIM MORAN, (D) VIRGINIA: They don't want it in their backyard. They, you know, they hear from constituents.

ACOSTA: Virginia Democrat Jim Moran was almost alone in his willingness to accept detainees into his district where 9/11 plotter Zacharias Moussaoui and American Taliban John Walker Lindh, were tried and convicted.

ACOSTA (on camera): Does this mean that that deadline is not going to be met of January of next year?

MORAN: I don't see how it can be met. No, I think the White House lost that when they failed to give us adequate information, failed to engage in the debate.

ACOSTA (voice-over): The White House says it's not backing away from its plans.

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president would not make a decision or a judgment that would imperil the safety or security of anybody in this country.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: Providing financing to terrorists, radicalizing others.

ACOSTA: But the administration was undercut by FBI Director Robert Mueller, who told Congress detainees would pose a risk in American prisons. Democrats noted there are domestic and al Qaeda terrorists already behind bars in the U.S.

REP. JERROLD NADLER, (D) NEW YORK: Have they present any particular danger to us?

MUELLER: If you're talking about physical danger, in terms of being able to escape and undertake an attack, no.

ACOSTA: Presidential scholars say Mr. Obama now faces a crucial test.

PROF. JULIAN ZELIZER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Democrats live with the constant fear of being called weak on defense. The president will be defined by this and the president can define this. I think that's where he can use the power of the bully pulpit.

ACOSTA (on camera): Which makes the clash between President Obama and Vice President Dick Cheney that much more important. Their dueling speeches on the war on terror and Guantanamo are being billed by some in Washington as a foreign policy debate that was never really had during the campaign.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: And once again, here's how the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on some key cases involving Guantanamo detainees. June 2004, the landmark case Rasul versus Bush. The Supreme Court ruled that U.S. courts have jurisdiction to hear appeals from foreign nationals who are challenging their detention. Military commissions, which were established by President Bush to try al Qaeda operatives were struck down by the court in 2006. The Supreme Court held that the commission system violated U.S. and international laws. And then just last year around this time, the court once again reaffirmed the finding back in 2004 that detainees are entitled to the privilege of habeas corpus to challenge the legality of their detention.

As the Gitmo debate rages on, the Justice Department announced today that a Guantanamo prisoner will stand trial in New York. Ahmed Ghailani would be the first Gitmo prisoner tried to the United States. He faces an indictment in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Officials say Ghailani was a driver for Osama bin Laden before his capture in Pakistan in 2004.

National security speeches today back-to-back. One from President Obama. The other from former Vice President Dick Cheney. Your response has been fast and right to the point. My goodness. CNN international i-Report correspondent Errol Barnett is here.

And, Errol, so impressive to me. We posed our question on our blog about three hours or so ago. People found it and started responding then and the pace hasn't slowed at all.

ERROL BARNETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: High amount of interest in this topic, Tony.

HARRIS: Yes.

BARNETT: What's interesting is, when you look at the views, they're not all uniformed. As Tony mentioned, it's the main story at cnn.com/newsroom. Within just a few hours, we got more than 120 responses. Let me show you some of them now.

We did find one person, Mike Wilson, who says he actually doesn't see a problem with having the detainees in the United States. He says as long as they're spread out along all the max security prisons along the U.S., as long as they're spread out, he says.

However, someone else who posted a comment, Don Gatten (ph), said the idea of putting them in max facilities can't be done because of overpopulation. He says that U.S. prisons are just way too packed as they are.

So then the question becomes, well, if you can't send them to these prisons -- oh, here's another concern someone had is that not the overpopulation, but if you do send these detainees while they're being tried or after they're convicted to a prison, he's worried that they will be able to recruit perhaps and convince other individuals to join their cause.

So then the question becomes, if they can't head to prisons in the United States, what do you do with these detainees after the fact? Five Abu Jot (ph) says that in his opinion, they should be taken back to their jurisdictions, their home countries. But he says his concern with that option is that if you do send them back home after being tortured relentlessly, he says, for many years, they may actually have default to take on terrorist acts again.

HARRIS: Yes.

BARNETT: So this got us thinking, Tony, to get more of an international viewpoint on this. So I had some people from outside the U.S. send me messages on FaceBook. Alex Iki (ph) of (INAUDIBLE) from London. And he also thinks that these detainees would be better served being sent back to their home countries. But we should keep in mind there's a cost associated with this. He believes that if states can't take them back, they should be tasked to pay wherever these detainees are sent.

One more comment posted to me on Twitter from someone in Germany. Axel0706 (ph) says, looking back at how President Obama and former Vice President Dick Cheney made their case today, he thinks Obama laid out a clear and reasonable Gitmo plan based on the rule of law. Cheney tries to vindicate policies that have harmed the U.S. reputation.

So there's no consistent viewpoint, even from individuals in the United States and outside as well, Tony.

HARRIS: Well, I tell you what, you take a look at some of the polling and it indicates just that, Errol, that this country, at least, is pretty much split down the middle on what the heck to do with Gitmo.

Errol, appreciate it. Thank you.

BARNETT: Sure.

HARRIS: As state lawmakers' struggle with the recession, what impact are their decisions having on your bottom line?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Just checking out the headline at cnnmoney.com. Oh, there it is for you. UAW agrees to a new GM deal. Important news there. We'll give you details on that in just a moment. But another reminder to always check out cnnmoney.com for the latest financial news and analysis. Again, cnnmoney.com.

Quickly, let's get you to the New York Stock Exchange. The big board. Now better than three hours into the trading day and, boy, stocks have been in retreat all day long. Down 135 points now. I had a note on Nasdaq. Nasdaq down 33 at the last check. We'll be following the numbers with Susan Lisovicz throughout the day here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And as we mentioned, a big concession from the United Auto Workers Union. CNN confirms now the UAW has agreed to change its labor contract with General Motors. We are told the changes will affect funding to a union-run retiree health care trust. The deal with the Treasury Department is a key step, as you know, toward GM's effort to avoid bankruptcy.

Despite threats of financial arm Armageddon from Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, voters in California this week overwhelmingly rejected special election budget proposals. Now state officials are looking for other solutions and help from federal taxpayers. Yes, Casey Wian has more.

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CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By margins of about two to one, California voters rejected a package of tax increases and budget reform measures that elected officials said were need to avoid catastrophe. Now those leaders must figure out how to close an estimated $21 billion budget deficit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think there is any way to avoid significant across-the-board cuts in all areas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Education, health, human services, corrections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Nothing the state . . .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all on the table.

WIAN: Lawmakers say no more federal stimulus money will be available for California beyond the $80 billion the state is already expecting. But they are asking the federal government to guarantee short-term loans to get through a predicted cash crunch this summer.

Also, during his election day visit to the White House, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger persuaded the Obama administration to back off of its threat to withhold $8 billion in stimulus money from the state because of proposed pay cuts to unionized health care workers.

GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, (R) CALIFORNIA: We're going to work with them to try to get as much money as possible and the rest of it we have to do ourselves in California because we are not (INAUDIBLE). We made it very clear, we're not asking for a bailout. We're not asking for any money that we don't deserve under the economic stimulus package.

WIAN: A movement to restructure California's entire government through a constitutional convention appears to be gaining strength.

JIM WUNDERMAN, REPAIRCALIFORNIA.ORG: Californians are facing a myriad of very serious challenges. And it doesn't appear that government, in its current form, is going to be able to address them. It hasn't and it doesn't appear ready to. And so the likelihood of a constitutional convention taking place is increasing every single day.

WIAN: Tuesday's election was a clear message to state lawmakers. The only valid measure passing by a three-to-one margin prohibits raises for elected officials during years when the state runs a budget deficit.

WIAN (on camera): A California citizens commission that regulates the pay of state elected officials went a step further Wednesday, voting to cut the salaries of California's elected leaders by 18 percent.

Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.

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HARRIS: Boy, you know, California isn't the only state struggling financially. Forty-seven states are facing budget shortfalls. What does it mean for you? Cnnmoney.com's Poppy Harlow has the breakdown for us from New York.

Poppy, good to see you.

If you would, walk us through it.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Tony.

Yes, cnnmoney.com always goes in depth on all of these stories. So what we're going to do going forward with the breakdown is take you deeper on them. You just saw a great package all about it. Let's talk about it because this is about taxes. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, right now 16 states have already hiked taxes during this recession. You can see it represented right there. And 17 more are thinking about it right now. If you want to find out where your state stands, what you can do is go to this map -- go to this map on cnnmoney.com. It shows the budget shortfalls in every state.

What we're going to do is, let's take a look here at Rhode Island. Right there you see the budget deficit there is $450 million. Now, last month they raised their tobacco tax. The tax alone is almost $3.50. That's the highest in the nation. For Illinois, here is what Illinois is doing. Illinois is facing a budget deficit of $7 billion. What the governor there has proposed a 50 percent increase in personal and corporate income taxes. Ouch, Tony, and that's what these states are having to do at this point.

HARRIS: Well, any alternatives to raising taxes, Poppy?

HARLOW: Sure. You cut services. We've already seen 34 states do that. And there's a lot of talk about that as we all know in California, where just this week voters defeated several budget measures.

Look at the budget deficit in California. It's an astounding $21.3 billion. California's already raised taxes on sales, sales tax, income tax. What we could see, Tony, is shorter school weeks, teachers cut, a lot of them, crowded classrooms, and even some prison inmates freed, Tony.

HARRIS: Wow. Hang on a second. Let me back up here. What if people can't afford to pay more taxes? After all, we're in a pretty deep recession here.

HARLOW: It's a great question. That's what opponents to all of this tax increase talk say, right? Tax increases are never popular, especially in the midst of the deepest recession since the 1930s. But the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities argues, listen, cutting services is even more painful for lower income families than raising taxes.

They also say those tax increases can target the wealthy and that's exactly what we're seeing in Wisconsin. There the governor is proposing to raise taxes on people that make more than $225,000. In Hawaii, that's already happened. They've raised taxes on people making more than $200,000, Tony. You know, it's not going to be popular with everyone, but these are some of the decisions states are having to make. Again, take a look at this map again on cnnmoney.com and see where your state stands.

HARRIS: Wow, look at you adding to your reporting portfolio here. We're still going to get the "Energy Fix" from time to time?

HARLOW: Yes, we're going to switch it up. Whatever the news of the day is, you're going to get the breakdown or you're going to get "Energy Fix."

HARRIS: Love it. I like it. I like it. Poppy, appreciate it. Thank you.

HARLOW: You're welcome.

HARRIS: A long civil war is over and now the world is trying to cope with thousands of refugees. We'll get a live report on what is being done.

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HARRIS: In Sri Lanka, the civil war is finally over. Now the United Nations is trying to help thousands of refugees, but it is running into some serious trouble. CNN's Sara Sidner is in Sri Lanka's capital.

And, Sara, great to see you.

Why is the U.N. secretary-general headed to the region?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is coming to this region and will be here on Saturday to see the situation on the ground after a 25-year war.

Now, there is still a battle going on over how humanitarian aid is being handled in this country. Basically, on Tuesday, the president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, of Sri Lanka stood before the parliament and the people and the world really and said, we have won this 25-year war. At that point in time, eight agencies thought that restrictions due to security reasons would be lifted and they would have free access to all of these people who are in need in these camps. But, in fact, the U.N. says the exact opposite has happened.

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GORDON WEISS, U.N. SPOKESMAN, COLOMBO: It's critical at this stage, this week, today, that the U.N. is allowed full and unfettered access, along with its humanitarian partners, to this population which is incredibly fragile, having sat under military siege for three months. Curiously, and for reasons that we don't understand, the authorities have restricted access quite severely.

SAMARASINGHE, MINISTER OF DISASTER MANAGEMENT AND HUMAN RIGHTS: We are disputing it very clearly because what we have told them is that they cannot use their hundreds of U.N. vehicles going into those zones with their big flags on and inconveniencing the people. That's all what we have said. We have said please don't take your vehicles in.

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SIDNER: Instead, the government said that the U.N. and these other aid groups would have to use their vehicles, but the U.N. says that not being able to use some of their vehicles really restricts their movement and there are so many people to get to that they really need to use the equipment that they have to try to get to these more than 250,000 people, Tony.

HARRIS: Well, Sara, look, the civil war is over, by all accounts. Is the government giving any kind of time frame for how long these people will remain in these camps before they can be resettled back into their homes?

SIDNER: Yes, we spoke with the foreign secretary earlier and he basically told us he believed and he's hoping that it will be within a year's time, but said that's a very loose number. Now here's the reason for that possibly is because the LTTE has been in this area for a very, very long time and there is a lot of development that needs to happen. All of these people are stuck in these camps and we're talking of tens of thousands of people. Imagine trying to resettle all of them.

Also, they say, that there are mines all over these areas. Mines intended for anyone that was trying to crush the rebellion. And since that has happened, now the government has to go in and try to demine a lot of these areas and they don't want people in those areas. So it could take some time, Tony.

HARRIS: All right, Sara Sidner in Sri Lanka for us. Sara, good to see you. Thank you.

A police beating caught on tape. We will show you what led to five officers being fired.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: Look. Take a look at these pictures here. Five Alabama police officers have been fired more than a year after this high-speed chase and rollover. Man. It was caught on a police dashboard camera. Yes. Video of the incident was just released publicly. It shows the drug suspect's van flipping over. You saw that a moment ago. He was ejected. You saw that a moment ago. As he lay unconscious, the officers, you're watching this, beat him with their fists.

Let me just say he hit them. The officers hit him with their fists and a billy club. Video had captured the van earlier knocking down a police officer standing on a roadway. The five in this video could face criminal charges. Man.

All right. We are pushing forward now with the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM with Kyra Phillips.