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Texas School Workers Accused of Injury to Disabled Persons; Beyond 'Mississippi Burning'; Being a Good Teacher 101; Corpus Christi Fight Club: The Inside Story; White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs Holds Daily Press Briefing

Aired May 21, 2009 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Pushing forward now on a story that has outraged us for months. Five former workers at a Texas school for mentally disabled students were arraigned this week on felony charges. This is the disturbing video of the nightshift fight club at a Corpus Christi state school. Caregivers allegedly prodded students to fight each other.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): It's hard to know what's more revolting, that what we're looking at actually happened or that somebody would videotape it on their cell phone camera, apparently for its entertainment value. This is not play acting. It's a fight club organized by employees of a Texas state school for the mentally disabled. The very employees hired to protect these vulnerable adults pitted them against each other.

This week, five former staff members were arraigned on felony charges, all pleading not guilty. They are accused of organizing these fights between the disabled residents, encouraging them to beat each other, egging them on.

Prosecutors say it wasn't a one-shot deal. It happened over and over, at least 16 fight club events during a year and a half. Finally, in March, this cell phone video was brought to the attention of Corpus Christi police and the indictments were set in motion.

LT. ISAAC VALENCIA, CORPUS CHRISTI POLICE: A big disappointment that someone would see some enjoyment out of someone less fortunate not knowing any better being placed in these compromising positions. It doesn't seem right.

PHILLIPS: The staff members charged with organizing this fight ring are no longer employed at the residential school. Neither are five others who seemed to have encouraged the fights from the sidelines. But until investigators can sort through all of this, admissions are on hold.

CARLOS VALDEZ, NUECES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's barbaric. It's despicable. It is conduct that has no place in an organized society.

We should not have anything like this. We should not tolerate it, and we will do everything we can to get to the bottom of it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

PHILLIPS: A sickening study in brutality beneath the radar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And pushing forward, we're going to hear from one of the former student involved in this ordeal later this hour. It's an exclusive, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Back-to-back maybe. Eye to eye, no. For 90 remarkable minutes today, President Obama and former Vice President Cheney squared off in what amounted to be a national debate over terror, security and the American way. The venues were miles apart but the speeches at time were light years apart.

For his part, the president took aim at critics on the right and left.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK H. OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On the one side of the spectrum, there are those who make little allowance for the unique challenges posed by terrorism and would almost never put national security over transparency. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are those who embrace a view that can be summarized in two words: anything goes. Their arguments suggest that the ends of fighting terrorism can be used to justify any means and the president should have blanket authority to do whatever he wants, provided it is a president with whom they agree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is a fact that only detainees of the highest intelligence value were ever subjected to enhanced interrogation. You've heard endlessly about waterboarding. It happened to three terrorists. One of them was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11 who also boasted about his beheading of Daniel Pearl.

We had a lot of blind spots after the attacks on our country, things we didn't know about al Qaeda. We didn't know about al Qaeda's plan, but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a few others did know. And with many thousands of innocent lives potentially in the balance, we did not think it made sense to let the terrorists answer questions in their own good time, if they answered them at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, Cheney and his former boss insist that history will vindicate their methods and judgments. It's way too soon to tell, but take a look at this.

Since the Bush administration ended, the favorable ratings of the 43rd president and his former veep have risen, eight points for Cheney, six for Bush. That's in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll done last week. Both of those ratings are still under 50 percent.

Three men accused of plotting a holy war against America have made their first appearance in court today. A fourth suspect will make an appearance later. They were arrested in New York last night after they allegedly planted what they thought were bombs near two New York City synagogues. Investigators say that they also planned to attack U.S. military planes with surface-to-air missiles.

General Motors has hammered out another key piece of its stay- out-of-the-bankruptcy plan. It's made a deal with the UAW to slash its costs and obligations tied to union workers and retirees. We don't know the details, and the rank and file still has to vote, and GM still has to deal with an even tougher crowd, bondholders, who are being asked to swap $27 billion in IOUs for 10 percent of the restructured company.

Stay tuned. We'll keep you updated.

Before you hit the road for the holiday weekend you might want to hit the manual. It seems a lot of us have forgotten what we learned when we took our driver's test. We're going to run down the state of America's motor skills state by state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, an historic day at a town once know as a hotbed of racial hatred. Philadelphia, Mississippi, has just elected its first African-American mayor.

Flashback to 1965. Three young civil rights workers killed in cold blood for trying to help blacks register to vote. The murder sent shock waves across the country.

Remember "Mississippi Burning"?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MISSISSIPPI BURNING")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it a cop?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These jokers are playing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they ain't playing. You better believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP, "MISSISSIPPI BURNING")

PHILLIPS: Well, times have sure changed.

James Young is celebrating his victory as Philadelphia's next mayor.

Thanks for joining us, Mayor. MAYOR-ELECT JAMES YOUNG, PHILADELPHIA, MISSISSIPPI: Thank you for having me, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, tell me, I mean, how did this happen, a black mayor in a town that has been infamous for racial strife for decades?

YOUNG: A lot of hard work, many prayers, and a change of attitude in our community. Those are the key things that made this possible today.

PHILLIPS: Well, tell me about that change in attitude. I mean, what happened? Where did the shift begin?

YOUNG: I think the shift began a few years back as we cleared some of those hurdles that had been so embedded in our community. And right now we have just a more open-minded group of people. Our nation has changed, our state has changed, and it's trickling down to the small towns all over the state of Mississippi and everywhere. Good people willing to move forward with change has made this happen today.

PHILLIPS: And it's still a majority white people there in Philadelphia. How did you garner the white vote? And how direct and blunt were you about the history of racism?

YOUNG: The history of racism wasn't brought up that much. People realized what color I was, and we knew our history, but they also knew me as a person.

I've worked in the community over 30 years with the hospital, with the board of supervisors and community programs. So they knew me. They knew the person that I was. And I think I had a very good platform of moving Philadelphia forward.

PHILLIPS: And tell me about that platform. What did you tell them?

YOUNG: We talked about, one, an attitude of change, which, as you can see now, we are moving in that direction. Two, we talked about economic development and bringing a new brand of manufacturing, or seeking a new brand of manufacturing for our areas. And three, we talked about the community coming together as one to help promote the prosperity of our area. And I guess number four, and maybe I put it in the wrong perspective, but the fact of the matter is, by electing me, a lot of conscience has been changed in our community and our state.

It happened in Philadelphia, Mississippi, a lot of bad things. But yesterday, being certified as mayor of Philadelphia, ushered in a new way and attitude and opinions about our city. And it's all positive, it's all good, and I'm enjoying it at this time. I'm a little overwhelmed, but I am happy that the people trusted in me to give me an opportunity to serve.

PHILLIPS: You should be excited about this. I can understand you being overwhelmed. I'm curious, did Obama's win -- do you think that that made an influence on this race? Did it influence you? Did it inspire you? Do you think that somehow played a part in this change you are seeing there in Philadelphia?

YOUNG: I think throughout our community, the black community, hope always begets hope. Positive things beget positive things. And by him becoming president, allowed us to think beyond our normal mode of thinking.

And if it can happen in America, it can happen in Philadelphia, Mississippi. It did. I'm living proof that Mississippi is moving forward right now.

PHILLIPS: Amen.

Mayor James Young, great talking to you. And congratulations, sir.

YOUNG: Thank you for having me.

And we just want to send out a shout to the people of our community. It was a total effort, every part of our community.

We walked about 98 percent of our community, and I think that had an effect. I was able to look them eye to eye, show them what kind of man I was. And they supported me, they trusted me, and I will not let that trust fall on deaf ears nor on idle hands.

PHILLIPS: Well, our writer Tony is born and raised right there where you are, the mayor. And he was pretty excited about this. So, a lot of our efforts to put this together were because of him. And he is pretty excited, too, Mayor.

Congratulations.

YOUNG: Thank you, Kyra. And thank you CNN.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Well, special needs children abused at school by the people who are supposed to prepare and protect them. Mothers told their horror stories on Capitol Hill this week. Now hear from an incredible educator working to make bad teachers good and good ones even better.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, experts say that the recession is causing more and more people to become delinquent on their credit card payments. We talked with one woman who is paying down her debt with a little help, and it's something that everyone out there can do for themselves.

Here's CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last summer, Maria Calderon was overwhelmed with credit card debt.

(on camera): So you had, what, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine different credit cards?

MARIA CALDERON, GETTING HELP WITH CREDIT CARD DEBT: Yes.

ZARRELLA: And you had -- when you went to them, you owed $21,000.

(voice-over): She was laugh being it when we talked to her in February, but last August she was so worried about her debt, she couldn't sleep.

CALDERON: Nights crying, thinking -- I'll say, "God, help me." And now I can say thank you.

ZARRELLA: Thank you because she found help. Maria called Consumer Credit Counseling Service of Palm Beach County.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you talked to the creditors?

ZARRELLA: CCCS is a nonprofit agency that counsels people in financial trouble. Maria's counselor negotiated lower interest rates with her creditors and put her on a repayment plan.

JESSICA CECERE, CCCS OF PALM BEACH COUNTY: This plan helps her get control of her debt so that she can repay her debt within 36 to 48 months, three to four years.

ZARRELLA: Credit advisers say choose your counseling program carefully.

STEVE BUCCI, AUTHOR, "CREDIT REPAIR KIT FOR DUMMIES": First, it should be a nonprofit agency. Second, it should be absolutely free to get your counseling and to get your advice. And third, you want to make sure that the agency is accredited and the counselors are certified by an independent third party.

ZARRELLA (on camera): With her repayment plan, Maria sends about $300 less each month to her credit card companies. How does it work? Lower interest payments mean more of Maria's money goes to paying off her balance.

Well, I guess under 10 percent now, right?

CALDERON: Yes.

ZARRELLA: And what were they charging you before you went to the Consumer Credit Counseling...

CALDERON: This specific one, I believe it was 23.

ZARRELLA: Twenty-three percent?

CALDERON: Yes.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): In February, Maria told us she wanted to buy a home once she paid off her debts, and she hoped this experience would teach her children to make smart financial decisions in their lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, like so many Americans out there, Maria is struggling to pay her bills. The Consumer Credit Counseling Service tells CNN that Maria's income has been reduced and at this time she's not making payments. However, the CCCS and other nonprofits like it will continue to try to help Americans work toward reducing their debt.

We're going to keep an eye on Maria as she tries to turn her situation around.

And you can see more of our series "Money & Main Street" tonight, how to cope through this tough economy. It's this evening, 8:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The name of the House's hearing wordy and dry, examining the abuse of and deadly use of seclusion and restraint in schools. But the testimony, heartbreaking.

Take a listen to a woman named Toni Price talking about what happened to her foster son Cedric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONI PRICE, FOSTER SON RESTRAINED, KILLED: The teacher put him face down and sat on him. He struggled and said repeatedly, "I can't breathe."

"If you can talk if you can speak, you can breathe," she snapped at him. Shortly after that, he stopped speaking and he stopped struggling and he stopped moving.

The teacher continued to restrain him. Finally, the teacher -- finally, the teacher and aides put Cedric back into his chair and wiped the drool from his mouth and sat him up. But he slumped over and slipped out of the chair.

Precious moments passed before a nurse was called. I received a call at work that Cedric was not breathing and the ambulance had been called.

I rushed to the school, not completely clear what was going on and what was happening. When I got to the school, my son was laying on the floor with a paramedic beside him.

I knelt down and said, "Cedric, get up. You're not going to be in trouble." But Cedric didn't move. Instead, the paramedic stood me up. My son was dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, as you can see and hear right there, some special needs teachers are poorly trained and improperly use restraint as a punishment.

Well, we came across someone working tirelessly and passionately to address just that. She has been working her entire professional life to help kids with challenges.

Ann Marie Taylor's first mission was helping juvenile offenders, many with special ed needs. Then she realized she wanted to help these kids before they got off track. Her calling now, training and mentoring other teachers to do it the right way.

Ann Marie joins us now live from Columbia, South Carolina.

Ann Marie, great to see you.

ANN MARIE TAYLOR, SPECIAL EDUCATION TEACHER: Thank you for having me.

PHILLIPS: You know, when you listen to that testimony by Toni Price and you hear about this special needs teacher smothering her son to death, you wonder, how does this happen?

TAYLOR: It's unbelievable. And the first time I heard the story, of course, I felt for the family, but I couldn't believe it happened either, just as many of your audience members feel as well. Unbelievable tragedy.

PHILLIPS: What leads to that? How can someone even be that uneducated, or not trained, or have that kind of lack of compassion as a special ed teacher?

TAYLOR: It's hard to even answer that question for you, because the teachers that I know and great teachers across the country that teach students with disabilities don't feel that way at all. In fact, most of us -- and I'm speaking from the heart when I say this -- absolutely got into this profession to serve, because that's what we're here for. And most of the teachers I know, if they need training, they ask for it. And we hope that we have great leadership in place to provide those opportunities for those great teachers.

PHILLIPS: You know, you put it in such a beautiful way -- you got into this job to serve. And that made me think of a story that you told us about a student that was very violent with you when you were teaching. And instead of reacting to that child's violence, you did something different. You actually followed his bus home.

Tell me why you did that and what you discovered, and how that changed you or impacted you as a teacher and how you deal with these children.

TAYLOR: Absolutely. The particular story that you're talking about was a student of mine that came for the first time on the first day of school in my classroom. And my classroom assistants and I couldn't believe how troubled she was, screaming all day, very violent, very confused. And so, immediately, what I want to do as a teacher is find out why.

And so we tried to contact the parent and couldn't get her. And so we traveled. The guidance counselor and I traveled on the bus to this little girl's home, and what we found was unspeakable.

And the sad part is, is the story I'm tell you now is not that uncommon in schools today. We have a breakdown in the family system and teachers really are charged to help fix that.

So what I did when I found out what was going on in the home is this mother was running a prostitution ring out of her home. And this little girl had been exposed to that since birth.

And so, why was this little girl screaming in my classroom, why was she violent? Well, you know what? It made perfect sense to me then.

And so, instead of getting angry or not understanding how to deal with her, we knew exactly what to do. I knew that I needed to celebrate her, I needed to love her despite what she came to the door with. And I knew that my job was to make sure that what she received at school was very different than what she received at home. And thanks to that intervention and us really wanting to know more about that little girl, she is in a safe foster family now.

PHILLIPS: And you bring up a very important point -- celebrate who they are, positive reinforcement. That's one of your number one tips for these teachers when you travel across the country and you give instruction and you train.

In addition to celebrating who they are and this positive reinforcement, which we listen to you and see that you did that, you talk about structure, visual cues and communication. Structure, give me an example of what you mean by that.

TAYLOR: Well, I'm going to stop you for just a second. I think the core of what we do, great teachers do every day, whether you are regular ed or special ed, is build relationships. So that is first.

Second to that is structure, that kids truly need structure. You know, I often say I don't continue teaching hoping that someone gets it. Instead, I find out what they need and give it to them. And structure is a part of that.

They want to know the rules. They want to know what is next. And by giving that to them, most times, no matter what their disability is, they are a lot more comfortable with what teaching you're going to do. So, structure is definitely very important.

Positive reinforcement you mentioned, another key area. Instead of looking at everything they don't know or the things they do that you might not agree with or like, I rewarded for everything great that they did. And sooner or later, the environment in my classroom was so exciting that they couldn't wait to be good. And that is what I wanted to see as a teacher. And that is what really great teaching or even great parenting is all about.

PHILLIPS: Well, and you've mastered the skill of communication as well. I know when those kids come into your classroom that you'd have a basket there, right?

TAYLOR: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And they would pick a card. OK. Explain how you started the communication process before we wrap up here on how you started the day with your kids.

TAYLOR: Absolutely.

Well, what I found out is they were coming in angry off the bus. And so it was taking me so many minutes to calm them down to start learning. And so I thought, well, what if they got that out of their systems right away? What if I developed a system where they walked in the door, they choose the card that had an emotion on it, whether it's happy, sad, tired, angry, and they'd go to their desks?

So, I would greet them, they would choose a card, put it on their desk face down. And then when the adults in the room came to greet them, we would say, "Oh, Kim, I realize you are happy today. Tell me why you're happy." Or, "Sally, you're not happy, you're angry. Do you want to talk to Miss Taylor about that?"

And it completely changed the dynamics of my classroom. And I found out later that it was actually research-based, but I had no idea. We were trying things all the time because it was best for the students.

PHILLIPS: Well, Ann Marie, you are doing absolutely amazing work.

TAYLOR: I appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: I'm glad it's you that's turning so many teachers around the country.

Ann Marie Taylor, we definitely salute you today. Thanks so much.

TAYLOR: Thank you. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, they are pictures that shocked America. Just what went on inside this Corpus Christi state school in Texas? We're going to have an exclusive interview with the man who lived there and turned up in one of the recorded fights.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Pushing forward and digging deeper on abuse allegations in Texas homes for the mentally disabled. By now, you've probably seen this shocking cell phone video. Texas prosecutors say it shows workers at the Corpus Christi State School forcing mentally challenged residents to fight each other. Five workers were arraigned on felony charges this week. They entered not guilty pleas.

This is a video of George Brazil, a resident trying to get away from one of the fights.

Take a listen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

Well, George joins us now from Texas along with his sister and guardian, Michelle Crayton, also their lawyer Bob Hilliard.

We want to thank you for being with us. George, can you hear me OK?

GEORGE BRAZIL, RESIDENT, CORPUS CHRISTI STATE SCHOOL: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Let's start with you, if you don't mind, George.

You know, we just saw that cell phone video. What happened that night? What do you remember?

BRAZIL: I remember it was real scary. I get real scared because I had dreams about it at night time.

PHILLIPS: I can just imagine it was scary. What do you remember about what those workers told you? Did they tell you what would happen to you if you told on them?

BRAZIL: I'd get stitches.

PHILLIPS: You'd get stitches?

BRAZIL: Yes.

PHILLIPS: How did that make you feel when that happened? What do you remember about how that made you feel? I know you felt scared. What else did you feel?

BRAZIL: A lot of stuff happened.

PHILLIPS: Well, Michelle, I know that this was really tough for you to see this and for you to see this happening to your brother. You know, did you think that he was being taken care of in this facility? I mean, for all you knew everything was just fine?

MICHELLE CRAYTON, SISTER AND LEGAL GUARDIAN OF GEORGE BRAZIL: Everything was fine, to my knowledge. Yes.

PHILLIPS: So you see the cell phone video, I can just imagine how it made you feel. What was the first thing you did? Did you talk to George about it? Did you call your attorney? What was your first plan of action. CRAYTON: My first plan of action, I called to the state school to see if I could get a hold of someone to see what the problem was and if George, you know, if George was OK.

PHILLIPS: And so did you finally get to see George? Did the school say, oh, yes, there was a problem; or did they say, oh, no, no, no, George is fine, don't worry about it.

CRAYTON: I actually did not get a hold of anyone. I got recordings. I left messages and I left messages, and no one ever returned my call back.

PHILLIPS: So, George, did these workers make you fight or did they ask you to do it?

BRAZIL: Yes. They asked me to fight, but I didn't want to.

PHILLIPS: So when you said, "no," that's when they, did they start to hit you?

BRAZIL: Yes. They started to, yes.

PHILLIPS: And what did you tell them when they started to hit you?

BRAZIL: I told them I would behave.

PHILLIPS: You told them you would behave.

BRAZIL: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Oh, George. Had this ever happened before, George?

BRAZIL: Yes. It happened a lot of times.

PHILLIPS: And did you ever go to the main boss and say, hey, something is not right here?

BRAZIL: Yes. I went to the main boss, yes.

PHILLIPS: What did the boss tell you, George?

BRAZIL: Well, the boss told me that happens at a lot of - a lot of times that happens when they have that video.

PHILLIPS: Do you feel safe now, George?

BRAZIL: Well, yes, I feel safe now. Yes.

PHILLIPS: Michelle, is George living with you or is he still in this facility?

CRAYTON: He's still in the facility.

PHILLIPS: OK, so George says he feels safer now. How do you feel about that? How do you know that changes have been made that George is getting proper treatment now?

CRAYTON: Well, I don't really know, but I know a lot of things have changed. I'm not sure about in the facility itself. But I don't think it's going to change, myself. I don't see no change in it.

PHILLIPS: So you basically just don't trust the system?

BRAZIL: I do not.

PHILLIPS: So what are you going to do for George now? Are you going to be able to get him into a different facility. Will he get a chance to come live with you? What is your plan of action now that you have basically been failed by the system?

CRAYTON: My plans is to try to get him here to Austin where he can be closer to myself and my family.

PHILLIPS: And George, would you like that? Would you like to be closer to your sister?

BRAZIL: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

So Bob, you were brought in on this case, what do you hope to achieve on this lawsuit?

BOB HILLIARD, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE BRAZIL: We want the system changed. We want enough publicity as to these barbaric acts that the others, the ones that aren't as fortunate as George that has a loving sister who has stepped in, the ones that are still there, can feel their caregivers are just that, caregivers. And they don't -- they aren't allowed to put residents through it once the sun goes down and they lock the doors at night.

PHILLIPS: Have you ever seen such cruelty toward the mentally challenged?

HILLIARD: You know, when I first watched the video, when I was asked to represent George, it took me breath away. I know the psychology of being a bully is if you have no - if the victim becomes afraid, the bully gets more empowered.

You know, the State of Texas did not screen these employees. And even though they arrested these six, you still have the problem with a failure to screen, a failure to monitor. And there's 13 of these schools around the State of Texas with potential victims and we have no idea if they are safe at night.

I see that George and Michelle have the state capital behind them, and that's where the problem is right now. It's at the governor's office and it's at the state capital. They've arrested these six, but the problem exists statewide.

PHILLIPS: And we know, there are incredible legislators that have gotten involved in this and are trying to make a difference and change the laws.

Michelle, finally, what school is it that you want or what program or what center would you like to get George into? Is there a specific one in Austin?

CRAYTON: I was also thinking about trying to get him in a group home cause I think he'll work well in a group home cause, you know, he can basically so for himself. But if that doesn't work, the state school would be fine. At least I know I would be closer and I can get there if anything was to happen, you know?

PHILLIPS: Well, I tell you what, we're going to follow up on that.

And George, let me ask you this, we know this was a horrible experience for you. It should have never happened. And we sure hope it never happens again. And you should always be strong and speak up. And don't you - you know that you've got people looking after you now.

But when you do -when you are in these centers, in these group homes, when it's good, when you've got loving caregivers, are you happy there? Do you enjoy it.

BRAZIL: Yes.

PHILLIPS: What is it you like about it? When it's going well, what are your favorite things about being in these centers?

BRAZIL: Well, I get to do stuff by yourself there.

PHILLIPS: You get your independence and you get to enjoy friends, don't you?

BRAZIL: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Aw, George. You are a strong man, I tell you what.

George Brazil, his sister Michelle. Michelle, I want you to keep us updated. We want to know where you want to get him into and we want to help with that.

CRAYTON: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: All right.

And Bob, we know that this interview was delayed a few days because your wife was going through some health problems. We sure hope she's OK and we appreciate you making this happen.

HILLIARD: She is, and thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thanks to all of you.

CRAYTON: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Good luck, George. We'll be thinking about you. BRAZIL: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: OK.

Well, the Texas Department of Aging and Disabilities Service did issue this statement, it says, quote, "When we first learned from law enforcement of these videos, we were shocked and disgusted by the unconscionable actions of a few employees. We pledged our full cooperation with the local and state investigations and we fired the employees involved. Those employees have been banned from working with vulnerable Texans at a state facility again and they face criminal charges."

We will continue to follow up on this story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Straight to the White House briefing and Robert Gibbs.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: But one might ask, if the prison kept us safer, if what they were doing was protecting safety and security of the American people, how on earth did they make the determination that those people should be let free?

I'd be interested in the answer.

Welcome back.

QUESTION: It's good to be back.

Since you brought up Mr. Cheney, I'm wondering what the president's reaction was to this Republican response today.

GIBBS: He was travelling back, and when he got back, was first in his daily intelligence briefing and then, secondly, in the economic daily briefing. I don't believe he watched the speech. I think somebody -- he asked for somebody to print it out and was likely to have taken a look and read it. But I don't...

QUESTION: No reaction to it?

GIBBS: I don't have -- I don't know that he's read it at this point.

QUESTION: As for the timing of the details, I want to follow up on that question that was asked earlier. Earlier in the week, on Tuesday, you were asked about the upcoming speech which was today.

GIBBS: Uh-huh.

QUESTION: And the question was one would expect that plan to be detailed on Thursday. And you said a hefty part of that. What happened -- it doesn't appear that we got a hefty part of the plan today. Is the administration having a difficult time nailing down a plan?

GIBBS: No. I think -- and we talked about this yesterday -- that the president believed it was important to establish a framework for how he believes -- or to demonstrate how he's thinking about these issues, the way he's working through not just detainee and detention issues, but also state secret, OLC memos, transparency, and balancing that versus national security.

But then I -- the task forces here are at work making those determinations, as I said, going through each and every case to establish who these people are and under what system we can bring swift and certain justice.

QUESTION: None of the countries...

GIBBS: Yes, sir?

QUESTION: He said at one point in the speech, no time for finger-pointing, which he often says, but then at 12 different -- 12 or 15, depending on how you interpret them, points in the speech, he pointed the finger directly at the Bush administration. And, you know, of course he's going to do that, because he's changing their policies, but why even talk about stopping the finger-pointing when -- when he does so much of it in this speech?

GIBBS: Well, I think part of this was for an understanding -- an understanding about -- I don't think we can talk about where we're going without establishing how we got to this point.

You can't set up the decision to close, the decision to go through the cases, making the decisions about bringing people to justice or transfer without setting the stage on how you got there. I also think...

QUESTION: I understand that. But why -- you know, why kind of hold himself up as, you know, "Gosh, I don't finger-point. Washington has this culture of finger-pointing. I wouldn't do something like that"? Just...

(CROSSTALK)

GIBBS: Well, I don't -- you can read me the reference that he's -- I don't have it off the top of my head. But is it in the latter part of the...

QUESTION: "I understand that it's no secret there is a tendency in Washington to spend our time pointing fingers at one another and our media culture feeds the impulses that lead to a good fight."

GIBBS: Ah, aiding and abetting is the likely charge. Well, look, I -- is that -- I think in the -- is that in the section of the speech where we're discussing whether or not we should look backwards and have a commission?

QUESTION: Exactly.

GIBBS: I think he lays out the argument fairly cogently in that section about why, looking back, leaving the media culture aside, why looking back he doesn't think would be that beneficial in -- in using that commission to make some of those determinations.

But I do think it is important -- I mean, I think he sets up in many parts of the speech, again, the same thing that I had talked about the last few days, is -- we've talked about this as a decision solely as one that the administration or this president made via the executive order on January 22, 2009, right?

He talked in the speech today, though, about the fact that there are detainees that American courts ruled not since the 20th or the 22nd, but in previous years that we don't have the evidence -- we don't have enough evidence to hold -- to hold individuals that are currently detained.

We talked -- again, I'll use the example I used yesterday that Jake asked me about last week. On Friday, there was an individual transferred to France that a -- a detainee that a George W. Bush federal judge had ruled the administration didn't have -- this government didn't have the evidence to back up a charge and order that person to be transferred.

I think there are, obviously, a confluence of events that led us to the decision, first, to close Guantanamo Bay, but also a confluence of events, obviously, that were had over the course of the past few years and a discussion about changing the way our country looks at our policies, even as the president discusses the first and foremost job that he has each day in protecting the security and safety of the American people.

And I think that's -- that's the way he looked at the speech today. And I think that's what he laid out.

QUESTION: Just one another -- he's got to change a lot of votes if he's going to get the money to do this on Capitol Hill. Did he change any votes today? What is the strategy at this point? How's he going to do that?

GIBBS: Well, look, again, I think there's a process whereby decisions are going to get made. There's a process for evaluating these cases and determining where they should go.

You know, again, the Justice Department is transferring Mr. Ghailani, somebody who was indicted in 2001 for a crime that was committed and killed Americans in 1998. The determination, though, has been made that that's somebody who can be tried in a federal court in the southern district of New York, that transfer can happen, that swift and certain justice can be brought on behalf of the families of those victims. But those determinations are going to be made over the course of -- between -- well, from January 22, 2009 to January 22, 2010.

Chuck?

QUESTION: Robert, earlier in one of your responses to a question about today, you indicated that if we built a new facility. So that is one of the options on the table? Building a new facility to house some of these prisoners of war...

GIBBS: Well, I mean, obviously, there are a number of options. I assume that building a facility, upgrading one that isn't being used. There could be -- there could be many different options that are being used.

Again, I also used the example of -- obviously, there are existing facilities -- existing facilities that house what we have always considered to be extremely dangerous people.

QUESTION: Following up on the timeline question that Phil asked, will you present a plan to Congress on what you want to do, whether it's a new facility, where to move, you know, what to do with these detainees after you've done all of the reviews of everybody that's there? Or will it be -- you say the task force is still going through each of these cases. Is it going to be well they're all done, then you can go forward because you need to know how many prisoners of war, detainees?

GIBBS: Well, I think, obviously, to make some of those decisions, you're going to have to go through all of them.

QUESTION: You need to be done with all of that first?

GIBBS: Some of that. I mean, again, some of this depends on which basket of which the president discussed today that each of these cases falls into. Obviously, some decisions, likely, can be made before that entire review. In fact, as I've said before, courts are making decisions for the federal government each and every day based on their legal reviews about what's going on.

So, look, I think this is -- this is an ongoing process.

QUESTION: Can you give us a sense, how often does this -- the members of this task force, when you guys outlined it, it's cabinet secretary. It's very high-level people. Obviously, they've deputized people to participate.

GIBBS: Uh-huh.

QUESTION: How often does this task force meet?

GIBBS: Well, there's -- I think, if I'm not mistaken, there are three separate task forces. I can get information on this. I'm trying to think of -- what's today? Today's Thursday. I sat in part of one of these meetings on Monday.

QUESTION: Do they meet more than once a week? Are they meeting...

GIBBS: My sense is more than once a week, but I'll try to get...

QUESTION: Is there a full-time staff that is sort of constantly working? Or is it sort of a...

GIBBS: Let me figure out exactly -- I can clarify the number of task forces and how -- these task forces, obviously, are meeting regularly and have since the creation of them via the president's executive order.

This is basically the stand-up machinery to make these decisions.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) after the fact, you know, tell us how many times these task forces met and how often?

GIBBS: Let me see if -- if those kind of records are -- where they are. I don't -- I don't honestly know.

Laura?

QUESTION: Is it useful politically or otherwise for the White House to have Dick Cheney as the prime -- most prominent voice of voicing the other point of view on this issue?

GIBBS: Why would you say that?

(LAUGHTER)

You know, look, I -- I think that would ask me to speak to the motivations of about why Vice President Cheney is doing what he's doing. I don't fully understand -- I haven't had a chance, obviously, to speak with him about this.

I don't -- I don't know, again, what his motivations are. I mean -- I will say it does -- in reading and in watching some of these debates, it appears as if there's a continuation of a debate that happened inside of an administration over the course of many years that is still being had by a former vice president, former secretary of state, former staff to secretaries of state.

But I can't speak overall to the motivations.

QUESTION: But I guess I wasn't asking about the motivation but more, given the fact that he is doing it for whatever reason he may have, is that -- is he a useful counterpoint for -- for the president's case?

GIBBS: Well, I will say this. I think that -- I think there was a fairly hefty debate in 2007, 2008, and certainly even well before that about whether the decisions that we were making as a nation and the steps that we were taking, how that affected our security, how that affected who we are.

And I think that debate in many ways was solved last year, and a new administration took over with new ideas, and I think you heard the president lay them out today.

This is a president that is taking the steps to provide the resources necessary to go directly at the region of the world that planned and executed the very attacks that basically were central to both speeches today.

That's through the resourcing in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, efforts to ensure that the most dangerous people in the world don't get their hands on the most dangerous weapons, the administration's effort to renew the nonproliferation regime in order to ensure that loose nuclear material isn't available on the black market, steps that are being taken to invest in a 21st-century military.

I think those are all steps that -- that the president advocated as part of the campaign and is instituting as the commander-in-chief.

QUESTION: And to what extent was the timing of this speech set by the fact that you knew that the former vice president was speaking today on the same subject?

GIBBS: If my recollection is -- is right, this was -- we -- we chose Thursday sometime last week, but it wasn't based on the fact that anybody else was speaking. I mean...

QUESTION: But you were conscious of the fact that...

GIBBS: Well, I mean, I -- I -- I think there was an awareness that he was speaking, but the speech wasn't scheduled because he was speaking on a certain day. My sense is, had we given a speech on Tuesday, he might have been somebody that had an opinion about what we said that day, too.

This isn't a debate that the vice president joined over the course of the past few days. I think it's been going on with -- well, publicly, for last few weeks and, obviously, from what you read, privately in the administration for many, many years.

QUESTION: Robert, are you saying you object or resent the vice president speaking out on this?

GIBBS: I don't think I said that.

QUESTION: I'm asking, are you saying it?

GIBBS: No, no. I...

QUESTION: Well, do you welcome him speaking out on this?

GIBBS: I think it would be hard for me, as the spokesperson for the president who spoke today at the National Archives, the repository for the Constitution, to be one that advocated at least publicly only a few hours later that the First Amendment didn't pertain to a former vice president. So certainly I'm not making that.

The president believes, as I believe the former vice president probably does, that anybody is -- the beauty of this great country is anybody can share their opinion.

QUESTION: Although you did take a little swipe when you said he's got a lot of free time on his hands. GIBBS: Well, I guess I meant that he was the former vice president. That's -- that's all. Let me tell you, the -- the -- I'm sarcastic by nature. I'm a little...

QUESTION: Join the club.

GIBBS: Yes.

QUESTION: He, again, today raised the issue of the CIA memos that he says contain proof positive that the harsh interrogation techniques saved lives and prevented attacks. Is there any chance the president on his own authority could -- will make those memos public?

GIBBS: Well, as I understand the series of facts, the vice president asked the Central Intelligence Agency, under an order of mandatory declassification, to declassify these memos. The Central Intelligence Agency wrote back to the vice president that the -- the order of classification which he asked for was precluded under an executive order updated in the administration of President George W. Bush, which, again, precluded that -- that release, if -- if something was involved in -- if -- if those documents were involved in...

PHILLIPS: We will continue to monitor the White House briefing with Robert Gibbs. That does it for us. Rick Sanchez takes it over from here.