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Clinton vs. Bush?; GOP Turning Off Hispanic Voters?

Aired May 29, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Is La Raza, which literally does stand for "The Race" comparable to the KKK? This republican says it is.

TOM TANCREDO (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, COLORADO: An organization call La Raza, it's a Latino KKK without the hoods.

SANCHEZ: Is the biggest Hispanic civil rights organization in the country under attack from the right? And will that cost the GOP at the polls?

TANCREDO: If you belong to something like that, you have to explain that.

SANCHEZ: Who in the GOP will tell Tancredo, Gingrich, or Limbaugh to stop? Should they? Are they hurting their own party?

Sonia Sotomayor's Supreme Court nomination, that is stirring the national conversation for Friday, May 29th, 2009.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And here we go.

Hello, again, everybody I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation between us. This is not a speech. And it is your turn to get involved.

And yes, people all over the country are reacting to the comments made here on my show yesterday by Tom Tancredo. This has exploded on the blogosphere. As a matter of fact, let's show you exactly what I'm talking about.

Showing though some of those blogs - this is just right after the show yesterday. And like this page I'm showing you right here, this is one blog after another writing about what they had seen, some of them appalled, some of them agreeing, some of them disagreeing, all of them wanting the conversation to continue.

We're going to have reaction from both sides on this vehement issue in just a little bit. You stay with us.

But, first of all, this is a story we have to get to. There's a horrible story that is coming out of New York City today. It's a police officer that's been shot and killed by a fellow police officer. And the circumstances of this one are going to make you want to ask a lot of questions, which is what we're doing, by the way.

The dead officer is a 25-year-old rookie. Stay with me here. That's him. His name is Omar Edwards. He was shot and killed last night by officer Andrew Dunton, who saw him in East Harlem and mistook him for a suspect, instead of an officer.

Officer Dunton is white. According to the New York City Police Department, the first police officer had gotten off work when he noticed someone trying to perhaps steal his car. He tried to stop the guy. He chased him with his gun drawn.

About that same time, another officer came up on the scene. He saw the other officer running, the first officer, saw him running. And he responded by shooting the guy, the wrong guy. He shot the cop.

Here's their boss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: One of the officers, after exiting the vehicle, fired six times from his .9- millimeter Glock, striking Officer Edwards twice. The bullet struck Officer Edwards in the left arm and in the chest.

He was transported here to Harlem Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 11:21 p.m.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Shot him six times, he says. Police Commissioner Kelly says Officer Edwards, who was killed, never discharged his weapon and was not wearing a bulletproof vest.

The fact that one officer was black and the other officer was white is already, as you might imagine, raising questions and controversies in New York City.

Let's bring in our CNN security analyst, who happens to be in New York City, and has been checking directly and personally on this story for us throughout the day.

He's a 20-plus-year veteran of law enforcement and a former D.C. police detective. He's live in our New York studios.

Mike, thanks so much for joining us. You know, a lot of people are going to see this...

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... and the first thing, you know, they're going to think about is, why did that white officer automatically assume the black guy was a suspect and wasn't something else?

BROOKS: Rick, I have said this earlier. And from talking to law enforcement sources here in New York, this is not a case of white and black. This is a case of blue-on-blue, one officer shooting another officer who he thought was a perpetrator with a gun.

That's what the officer thought.

SANCHEZ: But when you look at this case, if it's not yet investigated, and I'm not sure who's going to be doing the investigation, shouldn't somebody ask that question? Why did he assume the guy was a suspect? And would he have made that same assumption had the guy running been white?

BROOKS: Rick, the guy -- what that officer from the anti-crime unit from the 25th Precinct, what he saw was someone chasing someone else with a gun. That's what he saw.

He's thinking -- and I would have done the same thing. I don't care if he's white, black, yellow, or red. Here's a guy with a gun chasing someone else. Is he a perp? Possibly.

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you about the training in this situation, because it seems to me...

BROOKS: Sure.

SANCHEZ: ... whatever happened here just seems -- seems like something that probably should have been avoided.

The first officer, the guy who came to his car and saw somebody breaking into it and immediately responded...

SANCHEZ: Right.

BROOKS: ... by going after and chasing the guy, isn't there a way he can immediately get on his radio and says: "I'm chasing some bad guy. I'm going after him. This is officer such and such," so everybody knows what's going on? And do we know if that even happened?

BROOKS: OK, Rick, this officer had just gotten off work. He was assigned to PSA 5, a precinct dealing with housing, a housing precinct.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BROOKS: Located within the confines of the 25, of the 25th, OK? He gets off work. He's got on a sweatshirt. Underneath, he's got on a T-shirt, a training academy T-shirt that they found later after they were working on him, but that -- it wasn't visible.

And he goes to his car. He sees the perp breaking into his car. He gets into a tussle with him. He tries to grab him. The guy slips away from him. The sweater comes off. He gives chase.

Now, he had just gotten off work.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BROOKS: He did not have a radio with him. SANCHEZ: Ah.

BROOKS: OK?

SANCHEZ: Why not? Why not? There's a question for you. Shouldn't these guys keep their radios with them even after they leave, especially if they are going to -- expected to continue their work sometimes after they leave? Which I hear happens a lot.

BROOKS: Sometimes, you know? But in New York City there's not -- you know, there's not -- every officer, there's not enough money for every officer to have his or her own radio. And that's -- I mean, D.C. Police, same kind of thing. You go in, you check a radio in. You check a radio out at the end of your tour.

Now, he chases this guy. There's a car, an unmarked car, three anti-crime, plainclothes officers. They see him. They make a U-turn on 125th Street. And they apparently confronted him. And I'm hearing from sources here, Rick -- I mean, this is all part of the investigation -- that apparently the officer who did the shooting...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BROOKS: ... says: Stop. Drop it. That's when Officer Edwards possibly could have turned towards them and that's when he opened fire. He shot -- he struck -- he fired six rounds, struck him twice, one in the arm, once in the chest.

SANCHEZ: In other words, they shot him before he had a chance to utter: "Don't shoot. I'm a cop."

BROOKS: Right.

And the other thing, too, Rick, when I was off duty, even when -- when I was a detective and even when I was in uniform, I get off, and I was going to be in D.C. or any surrounding jurisdictions -- and I have been involved in off-duty incidents myself.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BROOKS: What I would do, I always kept my badge around my neck on a chain on a little piece of leather. And if something happened, I would pull it out.

And it's like right now that we're hearing two stories, one that his belt -- badge may have been clipped to -- on his belt. And the other story is that it was in his pocket. But apparently his badge was not visible.

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you another question...

BROOKS: Sure.

SANCHEZ: ... before I let you go. Should this be investigated by the police officers themselves, or should this be investigated by an independent body? BROOKS: The normal procedure here is, they have a shooting team that comes out from internal affairs, and they will do it. They're -- they're -- I'm telling you, Rick, they are good. They're a great team.

SANCHEZ: Well, they may be great, Mike, but there's a lot of guys in New York City, like Reverend Al Sharpton, who are going to say: That's not good enough. I want an independent body to look come in here and look at this.

BROOKS: Exactly.

Reverend Al Sharpton, number one, has already come out and made this a race issue. And as I said from the very beginning, talking to officers here, black and white, this is not about race. This is about officer -- blue-on-blue, not black-on-white, OK?

SANCHEZ: All right.

BROOKS: But it will be investigated. In fact, they even caught the perp, so -- who he was chasing.

So, I want to hear what he has to say, what he saw, other witnesses and also any surveillance video that could have been in that area. They are going to take a look at everything and they're going to investigate it.

And if they feel that they cannot do it impartially, they will bring in an independent law enforcement agency to investigate it. But NYPD right now is the lead agency on investigating this shooting.

SANCHEZ: All right, my Twitter board is exploding. I got people in here wanting to get in.

Mike, I can tell you this. Every time I talk to you, I enjoy the conversation. Thanks for being with us.

BROOKS: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right.

The largest Hispanic civil rights organization in the country -- in the country -- is responding to being compared to the KKK. We are making news, and we will share it you.

Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. Welcome back.

Yes, a lot -- a lot of comments are coming in. But look at this one.

Famous E is saying -- Dave, let's get that shot on the Twitter board, if we can -- "Mr. Brooks is almost jumping out of his seat at the rare suggestion that this could be race-related." They are saying he has a problem.

I know Mike Brooks. He's a decent guy, by the way.

"Stop instigating issues," the next one goes on to say, "and let the people talk."

I thank you for any advice you can ever give me.

All right. Let's continue.

What if they called for a protest, and nobody showed up? George W. Bush has agreed to debate Bill Clinton in Canada. Protest organizers said that they and others would line the streets to demonstrate against former President Bush for -- quote -- "being a war criminal that should be arrested and tried for initiating wars of aggression."

As a matter of fact, let's take this. Go ahead, Dave, if you can, over there. We have been checking on different Web sites today. These Web sites have all been inviting people in Canada to show up and protest George W. Bush. That's the picture that they're using, all kinds of information out there.

Of course, this is obviously not objective. It's what they are saying, how they're inviting people to go. But we can report to you at this time, and we have got crews there who are following this, that, as far as we can tell, there aren't a lot of people there.

We're expecting live pictures from the streets of Toronto during this demonstration. We have been monitoring the Web sites. And, again, right now, as far as we can tell, there are not people lining the streets of Toronto.

With the debate set to begin at the bottom of the hour, we will check it for you. No protests. We will keep an eye on the situation. And we will, we promise, keep you posted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM TANCREDO (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: An organization called La Raza. It's a Latino KKK without the hoods and/or the nooses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He said it, and now Hispanic organizations from around the country are furious that he said it. And they're not just furious at him. I'm going to let you hear what Tancredo says, and then you're going to hear the live reply from a spokesperson for La Raza. That is coming up next. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right.

We're getting all kinds of comments, as you might imagine, on a lot of the stories that we're following for you right now.

Dave, let's take it from the top and share a couple of these as we get into this next story. "He shot him before he could get out three short, simple words: 'I'm a cop.' Something is seriously wrong with that picture."

Next: "How low can you go? Where was the outcry from the GOP of Justice Alito? How soon we forget."

And then, finally: "La Raza is a racist organization. What else would you call them? They advocate for Hispanic illegal immigrants. Enough said."

All right.

All right, let's pick up the conversation now that we're speaking about La Raza. Did we ever strike a nerve with you yesterday. A former U.S. congressman compared a national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy group to the KKK, the Ku Klux Klan.

Republican Tom Tancredo is a former five-term congressman from Colorado. I invited him, as I told you yesterday, to talk about Supreme Court justice nominee Sonia Sotomayor, who he called a racist.

But then he took it a step further. And he compared an organization that she is a member of to, as you just heard, the KKK. So, now he's not just being critical and insulting of her. He's also insulting hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Hispanic Americans.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANCREDO: If you belong to an organization called La Raza in this case, which is from my point of view, anyway, just nothing more than a Latino -- it's a counterpart -- it's a Latino KKK without the hoods and/or the nooses.

The logo for La Raza is, all for the race, nothing for the rest.

SANCHEZ: All right.

TANCREDO: Because a brown woman...

ERIC BOEHLERT, SR. FELLOW, MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA: In discrimination cases.

(CROSSTALK)

TANCREDO: That is a racist statement. You cannot get away from it, you guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: We asked Tancredo to return today to finish his comment and go face to face with the organization that he accuses. But he refused to do so. Instead, he sent me this note.

Here it is -- quote -- "Regardless of the apologist's attempts to defend La Raza, the proof of who and what the organization is lies in their writings. So, go look."

We did look, by the way, and we also called the organization for their response.

And Janet Murguia is the president of La Raza, or more properly known as the National Council of La Raza.

I have been talking to her throughout the day. Stay right there. Her response -- and she's got a lot to say, trust me -- she's already sparred with me throughout the day -- when we come back.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: Hey, Rick. Chris (ph) here in Montgomery, Alabama.

I don't think Tancredo is going to come out directly and say anything to La Raza with the (INAUDIBLE) statement that he made pertaining to them being like the Klan. I'm from Alabama. And, trust me, La Raza's nothing like the Klan.

Thank you.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Here we go. All right. I'm not going to play back the entire Tom Tancredo comments from yesterday. You can, though, see the entire thing in its entirety on my blog. It's there right now. It is CNN.com/ricksanchez. We will have all the information for you.

But the short version is this. The former Colorado congressman so earnestly believes that Judge Sonia Sotomayor is a racist and a bigot that he says an organization that she even associates with is no different than the KKK.

Well, that has gotten a lot of attention outside of this network. It has raised eyebrows on other networks. It has raised eyebrows all over the blogs. And it has also certainly raised the eyebrows of this woman that you're looking at right now.

This is Janet Murguia. She is the president of the National Council of La Raza.

Janet, Tancredo -- I should say, Tancredo, Janet, used the words La Raza and the KKK. And it's interesting, because he did it in the same sentence. And I'm sure, when you saw this, you had a reaction, which is?

JANET MURGUIA, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA: Well, it's -- it's it's highly offensive, because it's just simply not true, Rick.

Our organization is the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States. We have a 40-year legacy and history of promoting civil rights and -- and opportunities for Hispanics in this country. Not only are we a mainstream organization; we're an American institution.

SANCHEZ: Let me -- let me -- let me ask you some of the -- the points that he makes and others make when they make these kinds of allegations.

First of all, he said, on our show yesterday, that the model of your organization is all for race and nothing for the rest.

Is that true? Is that the motto of your organization?

MURGUIA: It's absolutely not true. We do not have a motto, and that is not our motto. It is not true.

And that's why I think Tancredo's comments have to be understood in the light of the fact that there's no truth to them. And it's not so much that they're offensive, but they're offensive and they're not truthful. He has no reason or no basis on which to make that claim.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, let's continue. Let's continue, then. The KKK, it's seen as a radical, violent organization by most Americans. Like the KKK, does your organization advocate violence or any form of what most -- what would be perceived by most as radicalism?

MURGUIA: Yes. Absolutely not.

We are a non -- an organization that promotes nonviolence, and we stick to those principles and have over our 40-year history.

We're a civil rights and advocacy organization. But to be equated with the KKK is probably one of the worst insults and most offensive comments that someone could make about a person or about an organization that I can think of.

And the fact that he would have the audacity to make such a statement is -- is entirely incredible, and there's no basis in truth for that.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, let me make the argument that some of the folks like Tancredo, who believe and see the world like Tancredo does, often make.

Does your organization advocate reconquering parts of the United States back for Mexico?

MURGUIA: Absolutely not. That's a ridiculous assertion. And there are a lot of myths out there that some have made to try to discredit our organization. But the fact is, is that that is absolutely not true. We are an American organization with deep roots in this country in promoting civil rights, fairness, and democracy.

My predecessor, who -- who ran this organization for 30 years, marched with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights advocates. But we promote opportunities for Hispanics in this country and try to open the door of the American dream to them.

And we have a record of promoting programs that help many Latinos in this country buy their first homes. We offer English classes through our network of community-based organizations that serve families across this country. We offer health services and health programs for folks who need information.

SANCHEZ: Do...

MURGUIA: And we run at least 100 charter schools out there to help provide educational opportunities for our young people.

SANCHEZ: But there are -- there are organizations out there which are, some might consider them to be more radical, more intense, MEChA, for example, which I believe did use that motto at one time and has had people who have said things that have really angered people.

Do you believe that a lot of the folks who are accusing you of these things are actually confusing you with other organizations, which do have more strident, more severe platforms?

MURGUIA: It's possible that that's happening.

But, again, we are a very mainstream organization. We have fought to promote opportunities for Hispanics in this country. And people can go to our Web site and see the truth about who we are and -- and what our record of contribution and service to this country has been.

At NCLR.org, they will be able to see the truth about what our organization does and has done and what we continue to do and work with so many other organizations...

SANCHEZ: yes.

MURGUIA: ... in the mainstream.

SANCHEZ: Two quick questions before I let you go.

Does your organization solely serve Hispanics, only people who are Hispanic?

MURGUIA: No.

In fact, we offer all kinds of programs that are open to families and -- and individuals who need assistance across the board in education, health, English-language services...

SANCHEZ: Hmm.

MURGUIA: .... many other homeownership opportunities. And we open those opportunities -- primarily, we end up serving Hispanics, but we open them up and have partnered with the NAACP, the National Urban League, with the Leadership Conference on civil rights, with the Asian Pacific American Justice Center.

We work in consolidation with a number of other mainstream organizations to promote opportunities, to offer assistance, to open the door to the American dream. That's our mission. Our mission at the NCLR is to open the door to the American dream to everyone, including the Latino community.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Let me challenge you on one more question. The name that you have chosen for your organization, which implies or denotes race -- La Raza means "The Race" -- or, certainly, that's one of the literal definitions -- when people say, why would you call your organization that, what would you say to them?

MURGUIA: Well, our name has a long history to it, but the bottom line is that words, like in English and in Spanish, have different meanings.

Race in Spanish has -- La Raza in Spanish has a broader meaning. It means the people, the community. And it really is meant to be a very inclusive term.

It comes from the term la raza cosmica, the cosmic race...

SANCHEZ: Right.

MURGUIA: ... which is a very inclusive term. And now it's part of our history. But the National Council of La Raza is a very inclusive organization, one that has fought to promote opportunities for everyone, including the Latino community.

But we are very proud of the record of history and contribution that we have made to this country and that we're continuing to make...

SANCHEZ: Well...

MURGUIA: ... through the help of so many others and the membership of folks like Sonia Sotomayor, who should not be disdained for that. I mean, this is a woman who is firmly, substantively qualified to be on the Supreme Court.

And I hope that the people will judge her on the merits. And if she receives a fair process, that will come out. And...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Janet Murguia... MURGUIA: ... to try to detract the issue with other things like this really doesn't make any sense at all.

SANCHEZ: Well, it's interesting. But, when people say things like he said yesterday, the least we could have done -- and I think it's better if you say it than if I say it, even if I am Hispanic -- the least we could have done was given you a chance to come on to CNN and respond to the accusations, to respond to the charge that your organization is no different than the KKK.

And let me just say that, as far as I can tell, you represent your organization very well, Janet Murguia. Thanks so much.

MURGUIA: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thanks for coming on.

MURGUIA: Thanks for giving me this opportunity.

I hope folks will go to our Web site and they can see for themselves. Thank you very much.

SANCHEZ: I appreciate it. Thank you for being here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANCREDO: An organization called La Raza, a Latino KKK without the hoods and/or the nooses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, Tom Tancredo with that statement, as you just heard has angered thousands.

And now Rush Limbaugh has chimed in this week and seems to be saying -- you're not going to believe this, but almost good riddance to the Hispanic vote.

What is happening here between Hispanics and Republicans? And where are the Republicans in the GOP who will stand up and say, enough is enough, this has to stop, it's not going to lead to anything good? Where? Anybody?

We will be right back.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: Hey, Rick, this is Luis (ph) from Arkansas.

And I think that the Republican Party has just lost every little meaningful thing that they have done and are just trying to look for things to blame somebody else for all the problems the party has.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: You know, interestingly enough, we're having this conversation. I told you that Tom Tancredo used these words yesterday, and now this story -- this story that we had on this newscast yesterday at 3:00 -- has reached all the way to Washington and the White House.

I was just told by Chris Hall (ph) and Michael Herd (ph), my producers, in my ear, in this little thing, that during the break, this comment was addressed by Robert Gibbs, talking about Tancredo's comments about La Raza yesterday on this newscast.

Let's listen to it together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think you have to be the nominee to find what was said today offensive. And I think maybe the best example of that, Josh, is to look at any number of conservative and Republican leaders who, over the past 24 hours, have specifically addressed the comments of people like Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh.

It's sort of hard to completely quantify the outrage I think almost anybody would feel at the notion that you're being compared to somebody who used to be a member of the Ku Klux Klan. It's amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Nice to know the folks at the White House are watching this show.

Rush Limbaugh said on his radio show this week, by the way, to his 10 million or so listeners, that Republicans should give up on trying to woo the Hispanic vote. When you combine that with the heated anti-immigrant tone of the immigration reform debate, as it took form last summer, this latest flap about a Hispanic female judge, and now a Republican, or a former Republican congressman, calling the Hispanic civil rights organization -- the largest, by the way, Hispanic civil rights organization -- in the United States the same as the KKK, you may have a problem with the GOP.

Joining us now are two Hispanic women who proudly defend their party's point of view.

Leslie Sanchez is a Republican strategist and Maria Cardona is a Democratic strategist.

Leslie, let me begin with you. I hate to put you in this situation, but I didn't. Tom Tancredo did.

LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sure.

R. SANCHEZ: And I guess Rush Limbaugh. I mean, look, Limbaugh said Tuesday -- I looked at the quote -- about giving up on Hispanics, they're never going to vote for us anyway.

Should the Republican Party give up on Hispanics? Is that what this is all about?

L. SANCHEZ: That's not what this is about. I mean, let's be fair. These individuals are allowed their free speech. They can go out and do whatever they want. They're not elected officials.

But there are many conservative Hispanics in this country who feel that they share solid Republican values. They feel this is a party that is inclusive to them, and that alliance is built more on the basis of individual candidates in their state, on their local level, and just values that they share in their own home. I will toll you this...

R. SANCHEZ: Do you think they're growing? Do you think the number of Hispanics becoming Republican in this country at this particular time, in this particular environment, with what we've reported and what Tom Tancredo said yesterday, they're growing?

L. SANCHEZ: I think that on the local level, they are. But let's talk about it separately.

These are individuals who are doing more damage -- I will agree with you, Rick, completely. And I think Maria would probably agree with me on that part. They do more damage not only among Latinos, but Independent voters, female voters, who look at this party and say if you are not inclusive of them, why would you be inclusive of me? How moderate and accepting can you be? We saw that when we closed the Hispanic gap, when we made ourselves competitive, we closed the gender gap as well, so this does more damage all the way across the Republican Party.

R. SANCHEZ: Yes.

Maria, is it part of the purification process that Arlen Specter alluded to, that, really, he seems to be arguing, kicks out not just Hispanics but other people as well?

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, if the Republican Party is going to continue to listen to people like Rush Limbaugh and like Tom Tancredo, yes. And what's happening is that as the hole that they dig themselves in gets bigger and bigger, their party gets smaller and smaller.

But here's the big problem with what Leslie was talking about. You can't just say that these are just fringe conservatives that are talking this way.

You have Newt Gingrich Sonia Sotomayor a racist. This is somebody who supposedly wants to be president in 2012. This is somebody, by the way, that the National Republican Congressional Campaign Committee is honoring next month. Chairman Pete Sessions, a congressman...

R. SANCHEZ: Maria, let's be fair.

CARDONA: Hang on a second. A congressman who has over 30 percent Hispanics his district is honoring somebody who has completely alienated and has completely, you know, told Hispanics that they don't need them.

L. SANCHEZ: Let's be fair. Let's differentiate here.

It's a lot easier to believe a stereotype, an incorrect stereotype, that Republicans and Latinos don't get along, than it is to sift through it. And to sift through it, you'll see that, while I do not agree with the tone and that word that Speaker Gingrich used, I do agree with the fact that he has a wealth of experience in reaching out to the Latino community. He was one of the first people to put Hispanics on his staff when he was speaker of the House.

He was reaching out to business leaders. He was looking at hurricane relief for Latin America and the Americas. He has a history of doing things right and wrong.

R. SANCHEZ: All right. Let's move away from...

CARDONA: He's not showing it, that's for sure.

R. SANCHEZ: Let's move away from Newt for a minute and let's look at numbers. OK?

Look, I'm looking at something here. It's called Operation Gringo. It's on the Web site 538. Both of you are very familiar with the Web site 538, which is run by Nate Silver, by the way.

Nate's a brilliant numbers guy, and he's come up with something on this Web site, by the way.

Do you want to get a shot of that, Johnny (ph)? Did you get a chance?

"Either way, can the Republican Party sacrifice the Hispanic vote and still win the White House in the United States?" Here's what I'm looking at.

Guys, can that happen? I guess, Leslie, I'm interested. I mean, wouldn't you lose a big part of the Southwest? Wouldn't you end up losing a lot of -- parts of Florida, for example?

Is it even possible? Can you figure out a scenario where they could still get the White House without Hispanics?

L. SANCHEZ: I wrote a scenario in my last book. I think absolutely. And I've talked to Nate Silver about this idea.

He uses some different models, but he's correct. And part of what they're saying is, in some cases, it doesn't matter, but in states that are moved by one percent, Hispanics make a difference.

The big difference to think about with Hispanics is if Republicans have earned over 30 percent of the Hispanic vote over the last eight presidential elections, if they don't get more than that, just by virtue of the growth of the Hispanic community, we will not be a majority party again if we don't start earning more of Hispanic support. R. SANCHEZ: So it sounds like you're saying, yes, we can do it, but it's going to be more painful as we get older, as it goes forward.

L. SANCHEZ: I'm saying, Rick, it can't happen. If we want the Republican Party to be a majority party, we have to earn more of the Hispanic vote, period.

R. SANCHEZ: Yes.

All right. I'm going to stop here. But I want to bring you guys back, because we're not done with this topic.

As a matter of fact, the next part of the conversation is the one that may be even more interesting. I want to read something to you.

"White man racist nominee would be forced to withdraw. Latina woman racist should also withdraw."

What is that? That's exactly what Leslie and Maria were just talking about. That's Newt Gingrich twittering about justice nominee Sonia Sotomayor, calling her a racist.

OK. Here's the question. And I want you to think about it, and I want our two guests to think about it. Who in the Republican Party will stand up and defend Hispanics against things said like what Tancredo said, what Rush Limbaugh has said, what Gingrich has said?

Do they need to? Should they? And if so, who?

We've been making calls throughout the day.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

R. SANCHEZ: Mr. Chad Myers, Mr. Ever Ready, just handed me this little yellow piece of paper. The reason I needed this yellow piece of paper is I wanted to know exactly how many named storms we might have this year. There goes Chad going back to his spot.

Here's what we're telling you, folks. They're saying 70 percent chance that we'll have nine to 14 named storms. Of course we're talking about mostly hurricanes that could affect the United States, which is why the president of the United States is talking hurricane preparedness today.

Here's some video we just got in just a little while ago. This is the president talking about what Americans are going to need to do to prepare themselves. And obviously he's going to be meeting with FEMA officials to lay out the groundwork and the plans for what would happen if the United States' coastline were to be hit by another major storm.

Obviously, we're going to follow what the president says if there's anything to report of interest to you on that. We have talked about before about hurricane preparedness. We'll tell you about it. By the way, lots of comments coming in on the conversation that we're having right now, as you might imagine. We made news last night on this newscast, and it has continued.

We had reaction from the White House moments ago. You saw Robert Gibbs talking about the comments by Tom Tancredo, comparing him to the KKK.

You're talking as well.

Gatti Mayan (ph) says -- let's go ahead and take that, Dave. This is on the Twitter board, yes.

Gatti Mayan (ph) says -- she says, "Republicans would lose badly without Hispanics. They are the largest of the minority groups."

Again, there are those who don't agree with that.

And "Hey, Rick, can CNN report on any La Raza lynchings?"

I doubt it. Point well made.

All right. With the latest flurry by Limbaugh saying that Republicans should forget about Hispanics altogether -- he said that Tuesday -- and then Newt Gingrich calling Sotomayor a racist, and now Tom Tancredo complaining that La Raza should be compared to the KKK, one does begin to wonder who's in charge of the Republican Party. Why are these guys freelancing? Why are they saying these things?

It seems to be like they're on their own out there.

And here's another question. Why doesn't somebody in the Republican Party tell them, guys, you don't want to be saying this kind of stuff? I mean, literally, somebody maybe should stand up and muzzle them. Maybe not. It's a question.

Do we have him?

I'm being told that, as a matter of fact, Republican Tom DeLay, former majority House speaker -- former majority leader, thank you -- is joining us now. Eleven-term congressman from Texas. This guy knows his politics.

Mr. Delay, are you there, sir?

TOM DELAY (R), FMR. MAJORITY LEADER: I'm right here. Thank you.

R. SANCHEZ: Are you the guy who's going to stand up here on CNN and say to fellows like Tancredo and, you know, your colleague, Newt Gingrich, guys, why are you doing this? Are you?

DELAY: Well, they can do whatever they want to. I've got to tell you, I was born in Laredo, Texas, raised in Venezuela, and came from south Texas, so I have lived with Hispanics my entire life.

R. SANCHEZ: So how do you explain what's going on? I mean, you've got Tom Tancredo saying...

DELAY: Well, if I can finish my thought...

R. SANCHEZ: Go ahead. Please. Please.

DELAY: Thank you.

La Raza and LULAC don't speak for the Hispanics that I know. And they are a bunch of radical leftists that try to make the world believe that they speak for Hispanics.

The Hispanics that I know are hardworking people, family people, religious. They have the same world view as Republicans, and they vote Republican.

So, this whole debate about Sotomayor being Hispanic or Latina is racist in itself. I am disgusted that we are considering her nomination because she is Hispanic.

She has a world view. She has a judicial temperament. She has a record. And that's what we ought to be looking at. It's racist in itself to have this debate.

R. SANCHEZ: You're not implying that she was chosen by the president simply because she's Hispanic? Or are you?

DELAY: Oh, I think it had something to do with it. He's been bragging about the fact that he's appointing another woman and an Hispanic, and I think that's outrageous.

R. SANCHEZ: Do you think she's not qualified? Do you think she's not qualified?

DELAY: I don't know yet. I don't know yet. I know that she's pretty radical, from my view.

R. SANCHEZ: Well, you get a newspaper, and you read the newspapers. You've read her record. You know where she went to school. You know how long she's been a judge.

I mean, regardless of what you think of her opinions, is she qualified to be considered?

DELAY: Well, look at it -- not in my mind. She's an activist. She's a judicial activist.

And I've worked my entire career against judicial activism. And if Obama -- Obama couldn't have appointed a more activist judge, and, therefore, I don't think she's qualified. I don't want somebody writing law from the bench.

R. SANCHEZ: Let me ask you -- let me go back to what you said a little while ago, because I was struck by that. I don't think you're agreeing with Tancredo, but you're coming darn close.

DELAY: No, don't do that to me. That's not fair. R. SANCHEZ: Well, wait a minute. Well, wait a minute. You said La Raza is a leftist organization that doesn't in any way represent Hispanics?

DELAY: Does not represent the majority of Hispanics that I know in Texas, that's for sure. They are leftist.

Where was La Raza and LULAC when the Democrats were trashing Miguel Estrada. A fantastic human being nominated from the bench, and they were just trashing him all over this country. Where was La Raza? La Raza was not there because Miguel Estrada was a conservative, constructionist judge.

R. SANCHEZ: Well, let me give you another chance to answer the question that I first said to you at the very beginning of this. Given the fact that there seems to be this negative energy going on in this country, sir, between Republicans and Hispanics, given the tone that was set with the Sotomayor thing, given what Tancredo has said -- because he didn't say what you said, he compared them to the KKK -- and given Rush Limbaugh saying Tuesday we really don't need the Hispanic party, do you think somebody in the Hispanic party should stand up -- pardon me, somebody in the Republican Party should stand up and disagree with that and say, guys, cool your heels a little bit?

DELAY: No, I think anybody can say whatever they want to say, and they have to suffer the consequences of what they say. My point is, is that we need to be looking at Judge Sotomayor as, what is her world view? What is her judicial temperament? What kind of person she is, not what kind of Hispanic she is.

R. SANCHEZ: I got it.

Tom DeLay, thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us and call us all the way from Texas.

DELAY: My pleasure.

R. SANCHEZ: All right.

All right. Let's bring in Leslie and Maria once again.

You heard my conversation with Tom DeLay. I was taken aback somewhat by that conversation. He was very strident, wasn't he?

CARDONA: Wow.

R. SANCHEZ: I don't know who to ask first.

Leslie?

L. SANCHEZ: I'm certainly happy to.

I want to say that I grew up in Tom DeLay's district, I know that district very well. I have a home there. I understand what he's saying. I will tell you this -- I can't speak for the former congressman, but I will say, with respect to the history of LULAC, La Raza, and all of these organizations, a 40-year history starting as civil rights groups, they had a tendency to move -- an agenda that was very far left of center. I think the difference is they have no leadership with Janet Murguia. She has come across the aisle.

We have come and built partisanships on issues like immigration reform and charter schools. So there's a change happening in America.

R. SANCHEZ: I think that's fair. I think that's a fair criticism that you just made.

Maria, button this up for us; will you?

CARDONA: I will just say that Tom DeLay did not do his party any good just now in order to...

L. SANCHEZ: Oh, I don't believe that.

CARDONA: Look, he's questioning her intellect and he's questioning the fact that she got chosen because she was a Latina? That's not just insulting, it's repellant.

L. SANCHEZ: Oh, come on. The bottom line...

CARDONA: Leslie, she is the most experienced jurist in 100 years, period. Should she be questioned about the decisions and opinions? Absolutely. Should people question Obama because the reason that he chose her, because she was a Latina? That is insulting.

R. SANCHEZ: Guys, we're out of time.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: I'm sorry, that is absolutely -- that is disgusting and it is not going to help...

R. SANCHEZ: Now we've got three Hispanics talking over each other. People are going to start talking about us...

CARDONA: Hey, Rick, it's one more nail in the coffin of the GOP.

R. SANCHEZ: Thank you, Maria.

Thank you, Leslie.

CARDONA: Absolutely.

L. SANCHEZ: She is qualified. She is qualified. That is not the issue.

R. SANCHEZ: We're out of time. I apologize to both of you. Great guests. Thanks.

It's really been an interesting conversation, and I'm sure a lot of folks took a lot out of it.

We're going to have the latest on viewer feedback, and man is there a lot of it today. The national conversation on CNN continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a Wednesday afternoon at Gospel Water brand Baptist Church near Augusta, Georgia, but some parishioners aren't here just for the gospel, they are here to lose weight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't drink any sodas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ate more salad. Even I ate raw vegetables.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really made a big effort to walk.

GUPTA: It's called the Fit Body and Soul Program. Initially part of a study by the Medical College of Georgia, and now an indispensable program for churchgoers and community members alike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we do not want our health, our weight to hinder us from doing what you have willed for us to do in this world.

YVONNE DENT, PROGRAM INSTRUCTOR: We're trying to educate folks on the point of, you know, the high incidence of diabetes, hypertension, cardiac disease, and cancer amongst African-Americans.

GUPTA: The tenets are simple. Diet, exercise, food journaling and community support. All of it resting on the backbone of faith.

DENT: And everything that we do, we always pray, you know? We're here to support each other with prayer.

GUPTA: And the results? They've been promising.

RODNEY EDMOND, ASSOCIATE PASTOR: I lost 30 pounds. My wife lost about 25 pounds Doing the whole thing. Blood pressure went down and cholesterol level went down so we were very pleased.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My goal was like seven to eight pounds but I've reached 10 pounds and I've kept it off like a year and a half.

GUPTA: But Pastor Robert Ramsay says there is no secret to their success.

PASTOR ROBERT RAMSAY: Food can be a positive temptation and you need that inner strength to overcome that temptation. So I think every congregation can do it and they should endeavor to do it.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

R. SANCHEZ: Deron (ph) watches this show every day. She's now joining us on MySpace. She says, "The Republicans are cowards. If the ones that don't believe in what Rush, Tom and Newt are saying, don't stand up and take their party back, then they will get what they deserve -- extinction."

I guess she watched the DeLay interview.

All right. Your reaction as well.

Here now is John King in "THE SITUATION ROOM."