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Continued Analysis of President Obama's Speech in Egypt
Aired June 04, 2009 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Heidi Collins. President Obama and the power of words. Did this morning's speech build new bridges to the Muslim world? We'll have reaction from around the globe.
In Cairo, Ed Henry looks at the message. A little soothing, a little scalding and a lot at stake. We'll get the reactions among Muslims. Did his message cut through the mistrust on both sides of the divide?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am convinced that in order to move forward, we must say openly to each other the things we hold in our hearts and that too often are said only behind closed doors.
There must be a sustained effort to listen to each other, to learn from each other, to respect one another, and to seek common ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The president's speech also took on a deeply personal tone. CNN's Ed Henry is traveling with the president. He's joining us now from Cairo, Egypt this morning.
So, Ed, what part of the speech stood out, do you believe?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Heidi.
I think certainly, as you mentioned, the personal touch, the president tried to bring. Remember, as a presidential candidate, then Senator Obama did not talk about his family Muslim roots very much. It was a controversial issue. But, today, we certainly saw him bringing it up, sprinkling his speech with several references to the Quran, quoting from it, talking about his father's Muslim roots, talking about some of his childhood in Indonesia.
And he also, as well, talked about race in America, the civil rights movement. Something he doesn't talk about a lot as president as well. Aides say he doesn't want to be known just as the first African-American president, obviously. He wants to be known as America's 44th president.
But, today, he decided to use that a little bit, to talk about the American civil rights movement and how it might apply to the violence here in the Mideast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: And so he made the point that here in the Mideast it doesn't take any courage, in his words, to blow up a school bus with older women or children. And basically issuing a challenge to Palestinians to quell the violence within their community to show they can govern themselves, but also tough challenges to Israel as well, saying if there's movement forward on peace talks, Israel is going to have to make tough decisions on settlements in Israel, also on allowing a Palestinian statehood.
So there was a lot in this speech, a lot of substance, and the president realizes this is sort of just round one, if you will, that it's going to take more than one speech to really change a lot of minds here and win over hearts and minds in the Muslim world. Heidi?
COLLINS: All right. CNN's Ed Henry for us. Thanks so much for that, Ed. Appreciate it.
Also our White House correspondent Dan Lothian was inside an Internet cafe in Cairo when the President Obama made his speech. Dan is now joining us live on the Egyptian capital.
So, Dan, what was some of the reaction from where you were? Pretty interesting place to be at, I bet.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It really was an interesting place to be, not only in that cafe, but also next door. We went to a local grocery store.
I think, in general, everyone who watched this speech felt that it was a very strong speech but one young man told me that these words will only be powerful if the intended audience is willing to listen and to change.
I also spoke to another young man who was wearing an Obama baseball cap that he picked up while visiting in the United States. And he said that he felt that this speech really was directed at the mainstream, that those at the far end of the political spectrum would not have been happy with it.
He said human rights groups may not have thought that the speech went far enough in terms of the United States really pushing democracy in the Muslim world. And then those on the far right felt that the president didn't go far enough in pointing out what would happen to Israel if Israel doesn't buzz on the issue of settlements. We heard that as well from the grocer who we talked to. So, clearly, I mean, there's a sense that this is the beginning of a long process. They all said, yes, this is just one speech. I asked the man at the grocery store, I said, do you think you're going to wake up tomorrow morning and this relationship, that the United States says is strained between the U.S. and the Muslim world will be bridged?
He said, no, this is going to take a long time.
COLLINS: Right.
LOTHIAN: The president pointed that out and folks here on the ground realize that that's the case as well.
COLLINS: Well, that being said, any unexpected reaction then?
LOTHIAN: You know, not at all. I mean the group -- I think the one thing that stood out to me, first of all, was the fact that while everyone was applauding in the audience, in this cafe and in the grocery store, folks really were applauding. They were watching the speech very carefully and they sat throughout the whole thing.
You didn't see people getting up and walking around and moving around. They were paying very close attention to it. At the end, they did applause but sort of the -- I think I counted over 25 disruptions, I guess, or interruptions of the president's speech with applause. We did not see that in the cafe where we went to today.
COLLINS: Got it. All right. Dan Lothian from -- not right now in the Internet cafe. But that's where you were for the speech which is what's definitely very interesting. Appreciate it. Live from Cairo this morning.
Now let's get some global perspective on what lasting effect, if any, the president's speech is likely to have. For that, Nic Robertson is our CNN senior international correspondent and he is joining me now.
Of course, you have covered international news for years and years and years. That's your deal, if you will. Is it going to take some time? I mean it seems obvious. It's going to take some time for this particular speech to resonate with everyone, really, whether you are a U.S. citizen or you are in the Arab world or a Muslim.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And I think if you look at it this way, there's been an argument, if you will. This is what President Obama is trying to address. An argument perceived between the United States, Christians and the Muslim world.
That is what he is trying to address here. And then any argument it takes to side after talking about it, time to rebuild that trust. And that's what we're hearing reflecting back from the streets. OK. We've heard the words. The words are good. We've been expecting this. We know this is a guy who can deliver, who can -- you know, reach out to us and empathize with us. But we're going to need to see him deliver, and that is what you're going to need to see as far as the Muslim world is concerned, the broader Muslim world, that follow through on the words and build the trust.
COLLINS: Yes, because, you know, it's interesting when you look at this speech and when you listen to it, he did use that word "mistrust" at least four times throughout the speech. And I wonder, you know, what exactly he meant by that. And maybe it can be answered by talking a little bit more about the intended audience of this speech.
Who was it?
ROBERTSON: He's reaching out to mainstream Muslims. What he is saying is, you know, particularly in the context of al Qaeda, is these people are on the fringes and extremes of Islam and we recognize that and we'd like you to stand up and say a little bit more about that.
That's part of what he is saying.
COLLINS: I didn't hear him say that, though.
ROBERTSON: But this is what he -- when he goes to meet King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia, when 's there in Egypt, this is what is behind the scenes. It is you need to take responsibility and recognize and accept it. There are things that you can do to deal also with al Qaeda and extremists.
And his message was to reach out to that broad mainstream, particularly when you look at Afghanistan and Pakistan. Particularly Afghanistan, Taliban, al Qaeda.
COLLINS: Right.
ROBERTSON: This is the message. The message he was using there is that we had a right and a reason after September 11th to go there. And this is a reason that it's being used to sort of talk down the radicals that are fighting the United States there. Behind the scenes, this is what's happening.
COLLINS: Yes. Very interesting. There's also that whole line in there about how we will now be the same people, that we are behind closed doors, and in these private conversations in public when we address the Muslim world as well.
So there is definitely a lot to go over here. It was a long speech. 50 minutes, right?
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTSON: It was.
COLLINS: Nic Robertson, thanks so much. Appreciate that.
And we are hearing from you, too, this morning. What did you think of the president's speech? Our Josh Levs is tracking your reaction and joins us now with more.
So what's everybody saying, Josh?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They've got a lot to say already, Heidi. I'm pretty much going to be camped out here for the next couple of hours seeing what everybody wants to post in your blog this morning, CNN.com/newsroom.
Let's zoom right now. I want to see the question here. This is about the president's speech. All you need to do is go to that Web site and you'll see it on your screen, right there. CNN.com/newsroom.
Here's an example. Something we're hearing from M Ariely. "Only Middle east people can solve the problems. Obama, no. The Middle East's many conflicts, Islamist doctrines denying people's rights are not the west or Israel's responsibility."
We're also using all the social networks today. Facebook. (INAUDIBLE) right says this, "I love it. Great speech." Even beyond that from Anthony over here. "Barack is what we need for life. He is the real deal."
And finally let's go to Twitter over here. GotAClue is writing us, "I was happy the presidential Muslims, they need to help deal with extremists. It's their problem, too." We got a graphic for you here. Let me show you all the various ways that you can weigh in today.
You've got the NEWSROOM blog, number one. You also got my Facebook page, Facebook.com/joshlevscnn. Twitter.com/joshlevscnn. And Heidi, like I said, I'm going to camp out here. We're going to keep bringing you these reactions. We want to get everyone involved in this conversation.
COLLINS: OK. So not a lot of dissent there. It seems like everybody that we're hearing from or so far anyway has had positive reactions?
LEVS: A little bit. We're hearing some stuff on the NEWSROOM blog a little bit. This says, you know what, "We want to push a little bit more. Let's make sure that he keeps pushing." But yes, we haven't heard anything big and critical yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we do in the next five minutes.
COLLINS: All right. Well, we will be watching and listening to everybody who decides to share their opinions with us. Thank you, Josh.
LEVS: You got it. Thanks, Heidi.
COLLINS: We'll check back later.
LEVS: Yes.
COLLINS: Also in a few minutes, we're going to dissect the president's message with an expert who knows the region well and give guidance to diplomats. Hear what they're saying. In other headlines today. U.S. investigators are helping Brazil and France search for answers to the crash of Air France flight 447. Heavy seas, high winds, and strong currents have hampered recovery efforts so far. 228 people were on board when the jet disappeared on Sunday night minutes after flying into a storm over the Atlantic.
Two U.S. journalists are on trial today in North Korea. Laura Ling and Euna Lee are accused of illegally going into the closed communist state. They were reporting on North Korean defectors living along the China-North Korea border when they were arrested in March. Their families have made public pleas for their release and if convicted, the women could face years in labor camps.
A fence-mending mission between the U.S. and Islam. President Obama seeking a new relationship with Muslim nations. We'll get reaction from Pakistan.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And we're following two big weather stories today. One would be the possibility of some flash flooding in parts of the mid-Atlantic states and possibly some severe weather out towards the west. We're going to show you when it will happen and how many people may get affect. That is coming up in just a few.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): Muslim countries are hoping that Obama will change the policies of Bush a little, but policy cannot be changed too quickly. Muslim countries are hopeful that Obama will change Bush's policies of force, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here, Obama must definitely change policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A closer look at the president's message with someone quite familiar with the Middle East, an adviser to lawmakers and diplomats, Shibley Telhami. He's also a professor of peace and development at the University of Maryland. A physician named for the late Egyptian president, Anwar Sadat.
Thank you for being with us.
SHIBLEY TELHAMI, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND, SABAN CENTER AT BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Pleasure.
COLLINS: Quickly to that sound that I'm hoping you were able to hear, speaking was someone on the streets and wondering about change in policy, obviously, from the previous administration to the administration that we are under now.
What is that main piece of policy that must change immediately and, perhaps, after this speech had some time to resonate?
TELHAMI: Well, you know, policy is the core thing. You know, it's clear that there's not been a clash of values that's been overemphasized. Religion is important in the Middle East, it's important in America, but that's not the source of trouble.
The president had to address religion because it's become central part of the discourse but he's starting to get away into talking about issues, because that's what concerns people, specific issues of policy.
And here in the Arab world, not necessarily all over the Muslim world, remember the president even used the term Muslim world, I think correctly, because there's so much diversity.
COLLINS: Right.
TELHAMI: Trying to change the discourse on that as well. But in the Arab world, the Iraq war is important. The president has been popular in announcing that he plans to pull out of Iraq. It's been important that he announces he's going to close Guantanamo in torture. That shows up in the polls.
The policy in Israeli conflict is extremely important in the Arab world specifically. Afghanistan-Pakistan is important in Asia but less important in the Arab world.
COLLINS: But the fact of the matter is, you can say a lot of these things and, of course, the follow-through is often very, very different and potentially more difficult, especially when you're talking about Guantanamo Bay. There has been a lot of talk about that. So how do you get past those barriers of being just another, you know, American politician or an American president coming and talking about all of these things he wants to do and then really getting them done?
TELHAMI: No question. I think the issue of credibility is extremely important. I think the problem for the Bush administration, by then, they lost all credibility. So when a president even said the right things no one was listening, no one believed him.
This president starting with some credibility, people want to believe him, people are listening but they still are not fully there and they're waiting to see whether there's going to be a follow- through. So, yes, the pressure is mounting.
I think every single speech that the president gives raises expectations and I think there's going to have to be some follow- through very quickly. People expect policy. But I should also say, look. Changing the language is extremely important. I think framing the issues is important.
Part of the problem is you can't address issues if you frame them the wrong way. If people don't trust you. So I think this attempt by the president to change the language, to change the discourse is an extremely important mission in and of itself, but in the end, of course, there has to be some policy that people can judge.
COLLINS: Quickly, he's been in office a very short time. And you say that he came in with a bit of credibility. How did he get that?
TELHAMI: Well, you know, I polled -- I released my poll in the Arab world and six Arab countries. And it's clear that what people have liked about him so far. One is his language of respect. No question that has been noted. Second his intent to pull out of Iraq. That has been noted. Ending torture is very important in the Arab world because they see it as something that was targeting them, not just a question of double talk by the Bush administration.
And his statement that he intends to focus on the Arab/Israeli issue and the Palestinian/Israeli issue, appointing Senator Mitchell as a special envoy, that, too, is populous. So those are things that they judge but that only got their attention, but their attitudes toward American foreign policy is still highly negative.
COLLINS: Yes. And you know, there are many people for being honest in talking about one of the larger issues, of course, for this country and that is September 11th, where that feeling is the same from Americans to the Arab world, to Muslims, however we want to characterize this. But how is 9/11 viewed in the Arab world now?
TELHAMI: Well, you know, it's important that the president raised it. I think it's important...
COLLINS: Yes, with three minutes in. Three minutes in was when he first mentioned September 11th.
TELHAMI: And that's extremely important for a variety of reasons.
COLLINS: I think so, too.
TELHAMI: It was important for him to let people understand how Americans feel. He's projecting empathy but he's also demanding understanding. And I think that's the right thing to do. I think he needs to put that out there. It also explains why we're in Afghanistan, in a way that's very different from Iraq, and they have to understand that as well.
But 9/11, by and large, I think, has had a negative impact, not just because of the event itself, but because of the way we reacted to it, particularly the Iraq war. And I think a lot of the roots of the more recent anger with America is based on the Iraq policy that followed 9/11. Now there was anger in Arab Muslim countries before.
COLLINS: Right.
TELHAMI: And we commemorate. And it was mostly on the Palestinian/Israeli issue. You know, over -- if you look at the 20th century, America was loved in much of the first half of the century. And then the anger starts rising really in the second half of the century, particularly as America was drawn in after the '67 war. And I think it was largely on the Arab/Israeli issue.
In the Arab world, there's no question the Arab-Israeli issue has become the prism of pain through which Arabs see the world and I think since 9/11, the Bush administration policy, particularly the Iraq policy, and the war on terrorism as it was defined, angered Muslims and gave the impression that the U.S. was really at war with Islam.
COLLINS: Well, we could talk all day, I think. Shibley Telhami, we sure do appreciate your time today. Thanks so much.
TELHAMI: My pleasure.
COLLINS: University of Maryland professor. Thank you.
Want to take a moment now to get over to Reynolds Wolf who's standing by in the severe weather center to talk a little bit more about some oncoming severe storms. Where are we talking about here?
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: All right. Reynolds, we'll check back later on. Appreciate it. Thanks.
WOLF: You bet.
COLLINS: Even if you have no family history of breast cancer, you still need checkups. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at ways women can stay healthy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: This weekend thousands of people will take part in one of the largest fund-raising projects in the world. The Susan G. Komen Global Race for the Cure pays for research on breast cancer. It's a threat that changes as women age.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta has today's "30, 40, 50."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even though she has no history of breast cancer in her family, 46- year-old Ava Willborn doesn't take chances. She gets a mammogram every year.
It's a relief knowing that I've done my exam and that I have nothing to worry about.
GUPTA: And Ava's doctor says that's a healthy attitude. Because detecting breast cancer in its earliest stages is the key to successful treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About 80 percent of people who are diagnosed with breast cancer don't have any relatives who had the disease, so that is why we recommend yearly mammograms for everybody over the age of 40 because there's really not anybody we can pick out and say you're not at risk for breast cancer, you don't have to get a checkup.
GUPTA: But even before their 40s women can work on ways to prevent breast cancer. Eating healthy and staying fit are crucial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breast cancer has been associated with obesity. So a woman wants to watch her diet and breast cancer can be prevented to a certain extent by exercise.
GUPTA: And if a woman does have breast cancer in her family genetic testing could help her better understand her odds of developing breast cancer as she gets older. The test determines whether your DNA contains a genetic change or mutation in BRCA 1 or BRCA 2 gene.
But doctors note only 5 to 10 percent of breast cancers are caused by such a genetic change.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In those patients we would start screening every year at the age 25, but otherwise, we'd say down to about age 30. And the reason for that is that when we're younger, people who are in their 20s, the breast tissue is still developing and is more sensitive to radiation.
GUPTA: But 40 is the mammogram benchmark. Women after that age should be getting yearly mammograms no matter what.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Age is probably -- is the most important risk factor that we have and something we can't control. We all get older.
GRAPHICS: Although mammograms don't prevent breast cancer, statistics have shown they can lower the risk of dying from breast cancer by 35 percent in women over the age of 50. Other research suggest for women between 40 and 50, they may lower the risk of dying from breast cancer by 25 to 35 percent. That's why early detection is so important.
For "30, 40, 50," I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: So close and now so far away. A New Jersey dad is going home alone after a court in Brazil rules his son will have to stay there. The latest on a father's five-year-long fight.
ANNOUNCER: "30s, 40s, 50s" brought to you by...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There you have the opening bell today. And whoever that is down there, we're going to get to Allan Chernoff. He is a really great jockey. Stocks on Wall Street snapped for four sessions winning streak yesterday after Fed chief Ben Bernanke said the economic recovery will be slow. But today we do have a glimmer of hope coming from the job market.
Allan Chernoff is at the New York Stock Exchange now with a look at the trading day.
Hi, there. Allan.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Heidi. Well, the numbers are not very good but they're certainly better than what we've been seeing for a while. So a glimmer of hope is exactly right. The government says the total number of people getting unemployment compensation fell last week for the first time since January. But the number of people counting on unemployment checks is still just below last week's record high, 6.7 million people.
Meanwhile, new jobless claims also fell last week, but only modestly. They're at 621,000. So when jobs are hard to find, of course, people spend less. And, as a result, we are seeing weak retail sales numbers this morning.
Most major retailers are reporting sales declines for the month of May. Two factors coming into play here. The numbers are being compared to May of last year when sales were boosted by government stimulus checks and the one standout winner, Wal-Mart, has stopped issuing monthly sales numbers. So that tends to bring everything down.
Wal-Mart's recent success is prompting the retailer to hire 22,000 new workers. The nation's largest private sector employer is opening 150 new or expanded stores this year.
And finally, Chrysler is back in bankruptcy court today. The automaker will ask the judge to terminate the franchise agreements of nearly 800 dealers. The dealers argue they don't cost Chrysler anything. And shutting their doors will result in thousands of job cuts.
Let's have a look at the early numbers right now. First of all, the Dow Jones Industrial Average at the moment is up by a little more than eight points. And the NASDAQ composite higher by 5.8 right now.
So, a positive open at least in the early going.
Heidi, back to you.
COLLINS: All right. Allan, yes. But the jockey, though -- did you see him there, Calvin Borel. He's getting ready to go ride another horse, coming up in the Belmont, trying to win the race.
CHERNOFF: Yes. You know, let's see if he can, at least, he can potentially get the Triple Crown. Usually, if you think of the horse, now it's the jockey.
COLLINS: That's right. That's right. OK. Very good.
Allan Chernoff, thanks so much.
COLLINS: President Obama today reaching out to Muslims around the globe, calling for a cycle of suspicion and discord to end. Just a few hours ago, the president spoke in Cairo, Egypt, one of the world's largest Muslim countries. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I've come here to Cairo to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world. One based on mutual interest and mutual respect. And one based upon the truth that America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Will the speech change anything? At the top of the hour, we are going to talk to a veteran journalist who lives in the heart of the Muslim world for more on that.
And also, we want to give you a look at our blog. We've been asking for your comments on this. We are able to find some of them for you here. I want to read a couple of them to you.
This one says, "Let's not lose sight of the main objective of the president's speech. It's all about amending our relationship with the Muslim world. This is not an attempt to repair the Muslim religion."
Another one, "President Obama message in Egypt was really great. He not only pointed out the rights of women but in all of humanity. It was a message that brings people together toward achieving common goal rather than division."
"I live in northern California. When I told my friends I would set my alarm clock to 3:00 a.m. to catch his speech, they thought I was crazy. However, I am so glad I had a chance to watch our president deliver this great outreaching speech in Cairo. I think he is the right person at the right time, and the potential benefits from this effort are endless for the United States. America will remember this speech for years to come as a turning point in our relationship with Islam. It reminds me of the great speech President Reagan made at the Berlin Wall."
We are welcoming your comments. Make sure you keep sending them to us, and putting them on our blog. We will continue to read them to you here.
President Obama is in the Middle East as you know. And so is some of your money. The region's vast oil reserves have created an inseparable link to that region's economy and ours.
Christine Romans is part of the CNN money team, and she's joining us now. So, Christine, let's talk a little bit about what the president had to say on the future of U.S.-Middle East economic relations.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And, you know, Heidi, it took him some 50 minutes to get into that speech, because as you know it was a complicated and very rich history in relationship there. So some 50 minutes into speech, he turned to trade.
And he said that looking forward, the region and the United States can't always rely on looking for economic development by digging in the ground. They have to look toward using their oil wealth to try to invest in other things. And in some countries, he said are already beginning to do that.
But he talked about opening areas of scientific excellence and doing more sharing between the two regions on finding new sources of energy, creating clean jobs, digitizing medical records and other records, getting clean water and growing new crops. So it's among the themes we've heard before from him on the campaign trail as well, about looking ahead, looking at trade as an ally for these two regions, and not necessarily globalization of the source only of tension.
Heidi?
COLLINS: But, so far, it has been a relationship mostly -- I mean, let's be honest, defined by oil.
ROMANS: It absolutely has been. This has been a relationship that has been underscored by dollars and barrels of crude oil. And even today, as you watched $65, $66, $67 crude oil, this is the stuff that is the engine of the American economy and the world economy. After all, the U.S. is the world's largest consumer of oil.
And, frankly, this region is -- three of these countries are on the top 15 countries as sources for American crude oil. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait are among the top sources of crude. We're spending, you know, millions of dollars a day on crude oil, hundreds of millions of dollars a day on crude oil from just those three countries. So, it is, indeed, a complicated relationship and incredibly important. We're importing an awful lot of oil there.
It is interesting that the president did talk about it. He did specifically, Heidi, talk about looking beyond what you find in the ground for economic development. And that cuts both ways.
COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. What about "Romans Numeral" today?
ROMANS: Well, that brings me to the "Romans Numeral," which is sort of cutting both ways on this. And that is 10. And 10, a decade.
This is the number of years the president has set out on a campaign trail. And for a long time, he would like to see us to become independent of foreign oil from Venezuela, from the Middle East, from other countries. That's his target to independence on foreign oil.
They're doing a lot of things for, as you know, for raising standards for energy efficiency and the like. For more green technology. But that is a tall order and it would vastly remake some of these legacy relationships that the United States has with places like the Middle East. But something to think of as we talk about trying not to rely on what's in the ground and what were the fossil fuels we're burning for economic development.
COLLINS: Absolutely. All right. Christine Romans, sure do appreciate that. Thank you. ROMANS: You're welcome.
COLLINS: The second half of President Obama's tour will be in Europe. From Cairo, Mr. Obama heads to Dresden, Germany. In Germany, he will visit the former Nazi death camp of Buchenwald. Then, he'll go on to Normandy, France, where he'll attend a ceremony at the D-Day Battlefield of Normandy.
A New Jersey father's dreams of reuniting with his son have been dashed again. Brazil's Supreme Court has agreed to hear a challenge to a ruling that would have allowed David Goldman to return home with his 9-year-old son, Sean. Five years ago, David's wife took Sean with her to Brazil, where she later filed for divorce, remarried and then died during childbirth. Sean has been living with his stepfather since.
David Goldman spoke on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" last night about how Sean left the U.S. and the Goldman's efforts to get him back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GOLDMAN, FIGHTING FOR CUSTODY OF SON: We were never divorced in America. We were never separated. We were living together. And I drove her and my son to the airport for a vacation. And, apparently, they granted her a divorce in Brazil.
I drove them to the airport with blessings to go on a healthy, happy, safe, two week vacation. And they say that because I allowed that, that's not an abduction. That's one of their arguments.
June 16th, 2004, my son was abducted. I've been down to Brazil here, 11 times. I've been down in court hearings. I've tried nonstop, tireless efforts, night and day, to try to be repeat -- repatriated with my son -- never, ever stopping.
And they want to make it seem like after she passed away, then I came out of the woodwork. I've been, since day one, trying to bring my son home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: David Goldman's case is not an isolated one. The State Department says some 66 U.S.-born children have been taken by a parent to Brazil in violation of international treaties.
Michelle Bond is with the State Department. She is the deputy assistant secretary for Overseas Citizens Services.
Thanks for being with us. So many questions on this case and pretty much the issue of international custody and international treaties regarding it. The State Department does consider this case an abduction.
The boy was essentially kidnapped by his mother. Is that accurate? MICHELLE BOND, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR OVERSEAS CITIZENS SERVICES: Yes. This is an example of a case where the child left the United States with his mother and with his father's knowledge and permission for what was supposed to be a short vacation. And then, once she arrived in Brazil, the mother informed the father that she wasn't coming back and she wasn't going to let the little boy come back.
Technically, it's what we call a wrongful retention. But whether it's an abduction or a wrongful retention, this is a situation which is covered by an international treaty called the Hague Abduction Convention.
COLLINS: Right. What exactly -- and it may be difficult to say -- but what exactly does that say. And how is it that five years later, there is a U.S. citizen, as well as these other cases that we mentioned, still in a different country and the natural born father basically has no right at this point?
BOND: Well, he certainly does have rights and he's worked hard to assert them with our full support. The Hague Abduction Convention is an international treaty, and its purpose is to prevent this kind of situation from occurring. To prevent parents from taking a child to another country without the permission or knowledge of the other parent and keeping the child there where the other parent doesn't have access, can't get custody.
COLLINS: OK, how effective is it?
BOND: Well, in many cases, it is extremely effective. And it is certainly more effective than not having any process or any recourse that a parent can turn to. We have, at any given time -- currently, we have about 2,000 open cases of children who have been taken from the United States to a foreign country, that the cases include about 3,000 children, because, of course, sometimes there are multiple siblings involved.
COLLINS: Wow.
BOND: Yes.
COLLINS: You say that -- boy, doesn't that make you crazy? I mean, you say that this is a case where David Goldman has had your full support, meaning the State Department's full support, and that he does have rights. Then yet, it's still five years.
What has the State Department done, and what is the power of the State Department in order to get this child and other children in similar situations back to the United States?
BOND: Let me explain briefly how the treaty is supposed to work. When a child is taken in this way, the left-behind parent, this is assuming that the child has been taken to a treaty partner country, which Brazil and the United States have been treaty partners for more than five years. In this case, and in others, the left-behind parent files a request for the return of the child to the child's place of habitual residence. That's the formal term. And what it means is bring the child back to the place where he or she was living before the abduction. The country where the child is, their job is to schedule a court hearing promptly at which the judge will examine whether the child was taken by a parent, will determine what is that child's habitual residence, and make a determination to send the child back.
That is not the end of the story. When the child has been returned to its place of habitual residence, to its normal home, then a court there will make a custody decision.
COLLINS: Yes. But in this case, haven't even gotten to that point yet.
BOND: That's true. In this case, the courts were very slow. The process --
COLLINS: So they're just not following what they're supposed to be doing in Brazil, because of this two different entities that are at play? You've got the federal court system, I believe, and then you've also got this political type party.
Can you quickly explain that? Because it seems like one sort of overrode the other in the final decision here to keep Sean Goldman and his father apart at this point.
BOND: Well, there are a number of legal actions under way in that particular case. And I'm not going to try to comment on or explain that particular case.
It is true, because things are happening too fast. But it is true that, in general, we are concerned when we see a country where there isn't a prompt and clear response to their obligations under the treaty.
Sometimes, the problem is that a judge may not understand, may think that he is supposed to be making a custody decision instead of a Hague return decision.
COLLINS: The child is a U.S. citizen, correct?
BOND: He is a U.S. and Brazilian citizen.
COLLINS: Does that play into this? He's got dual citizenship? Is that why it's taking long?
BOND: No. The citizenship of the child is completely irrelevant. The point of this treaty is to stop the adductions. So even if a child were not an American citizen, we would be pressing for return to his home, his habitual residence so the court there can make a custody decision. The idea is you don't grab a child and run to another country and declare victory. That is incredibly destructive to the child.
COLLINS: Well, isn't it illegal?
BOND: It is also illegal in the United States.
COLLINS: All right. Well, boy. It's a terrifying because it sounds like not only does it take a long time, but not a lot can be done when the situation occurs.
We sure do appreciate some of your help with this.
(CROSSTALK)
BOND: We do have --
COLLINS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
BOND: But we do have cases where things work exactly as they should, and the children are promptly returned to the United States. There are, of course, children abducted to the United States and we work with the courts here to try to ensure a prompt return to their place of habitual residence for custody decision there.
COLLINS: But not five years as far as promptness goes.
BOND: Some of the cases drag on.
COLLINS: What a shame.
BOND: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes.
BOND: Well, we won't stop supporting and assisting Mr. Goldman.
COLLINS: All right. Well, we appreciate your help once again.
Michelle Bond with the U.S. State Department, thanks so much.
BOND: Thank you.
COLLINS: Fire and ice. A blow torch and diamonds. We'll tell you how some daring thieves carried out an impressive heist.
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COLLINS: A rare presidential debate in Iran. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faced off with leading reformist candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi yesterday. Ahmadinejad accused Mousavi of conspiring against his presidency. Mousavi blamed the controversial Iranian leader for tainting their country's world image.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIR HOSSEIN MOUSAVI, LEADING REFORMIST PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): In foreign policy, our nation's dignity has been harmed. Our country has been degraded. Development inside the country has faced problems. There has been increasing tension with other countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Two other challengers are also hoping to unseat Ahmadinejad in the election coming on June 12th.
A bloody crackdown on pro-democracy protesters, commemorating the 20th anniversary of Beijing Tiananmen Square massacre. We'll talk with a CNN producer who covered this dark chapter in China's history.
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COLLINS: Images that shock the world in Beijing, China. Tanks rolling into Tiananmen Square. A military crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people killed. Thousands more arrested.
Today marks the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is now calling on China to provide a public accounting of those killed, detained or missing.
During the crackdown, the Chinese government took steps to prevent media coverage of the student-led demonstrations, pulling the plug on American newscasts, including our own right here at CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our policy is the government has ordered us to shut down our facility. We are shutting down our facility. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we sign off? Can we sign off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we sign off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we sign off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We've heard the orders. We have our instructions from headquarters in Atlanta for Steve Hurst.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good-bye. It's been a lot of fun. It's been very interesting. I've never seen anything like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Lewis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Interesting, hardly describes what we've seen here.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most extraordinary event I've ever witnessed in 20 years of following China.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my 26 years in this business, I've never seen anything like this. The situation in Tiananmen Square is that it is a standoff. For all of the hard-working men and women of CNN, good-bye from Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Wow. The man you saw at the top of that clip is here now with us.
Alec Miran, he's a senior executive producer here at CNN news, in Beijing, as you saw, 20 years ago covering this pro-democracy movement.
When you look at that even now, what are the thoughts that go through your mind?
ALEC MIRAN, SENIOR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Well, it was a pretty tense day. Most people had been up for two or three days straight. The night before this happened, we had seen the troops try to get to the square. And, of course, they didn't get there because they were stopped by the demonstrators. But there were people in the control room with me who were convinced that troops were coming into our control room.
COLLINS: Really?
MIRAN: And, in fact, one guy, he said, I'll pull you under the table, it will be safe. And I said, I'm not sure the table is going to protect us, but thanks for the offer.
COLLINS: Yes. Yes.
MIRAN: You know, there was a little bit of anger. Not so much that we just felt. It's just, we felt angry that we were going to miss a little bit of this story. Because we'd been feeding out basically for a week and it just kept getting better every day. And to miss that opportunity, which was and probably still is the greatest story we've covered, at least for me, it just -- it was really a shame.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, that's understandable. But maybe for people who are not journalists like we are, you know, this is what we train for, this is what we do. And then to have someone tell you, hey, you know, you're going to be taken off the air for a significant, which became later, obviously, chunk of history. I mean, did you have any idea while you were in it at the time that it would be regarded later as such a significant piece of history?
MIRAN: It felt like a lot was going on. Because I've been to China for the first time to survey for this trip and it was a little tiny demonstration like a month before. And Mike Chinoy, our bureau chief, kept saying enjoy watching this now, because you won't see this. It's not going to happen. You know, they're going to clear the square. And it kept building. And on the first day, when Mikhail Gorbachev, because we did go to cover his visit, when Mikhail Gorbachev couldn't make it to his meeting with Deng Xiaoping, that was just incredible. It must have been incredibly embarrassing for the Chinese government. COLLINS: And he couldn't make it because why?
MIRAN: Because the meeting was right next to Tiananmen square, and there were probably 500,000 people there.
COLLINS: Yes. Wow.
MIRAN: And, you know, it was just unprecedented.
COLLINS: Yes, obviously. When you see stories on China now, because obviously we see a lot of them, especially economically. Would you have ever imagined that 20 years later the progress that has been made in that country would be attainable?
MIRAN: I think the one thing most of us took away, because we would all try to get to the square every night to talk to some of the students and find out what was going on in our heads, because it was clearly a remarkable time was that there was so much energy among the young people. And in this case, they were using it to demonstrate. And they're actually calling for things like freedom of the press. It wasn't all anti-government.
But there seemed to be a real determination and a real force that was waiting to break out. And the fact that it's maybe shifted into economic matters and other matters, it's not completely surprising because there was truly something special going on in the minds of these young people.
COLLINS: I mean, they were the future of the country.
MIRAN: Exactly.
COLLINS: All right. Well, Alec Miran, we sure do appreciate your story on this 20th anniversary. Our CNN senior executive producer.
Thanks, Alec.
The president's speech aimed at Muslim audiences, but intently watched by Israelis. We'll have that reaction at the top of the hour right here.
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