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Remember Tiananmen Square, 20 Years Later; Muslims and Muslim- Americans Weigh in on Obama's Historic Speech; American Doctor Using Stem Cells on American Patients Peru; One Kentucky Pastor Hosting Cold-Range Gun Event; Mexico's Drug Cartel Violence Spilling into the United States

Aired June 04, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, hello, Cairo. The president tries to write a new chapter in U.S. relations with the Muslim world. We'll push forward what he said and try to find out if it will get anything done.

What if she were your daughter and doctors here gave her no chance? Would you go overseas and pay thousands of dollars for hope alone?

Plus, a different kind of church picnic. Instead of deviled eggs and sweet tea, the flock brings a Glock or a Colt, maybe even a Winchester. We're going to take you to the intersection of God and guns.

And where were you when China's freedom flirtation came to a violent end.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Where were you when China's freedom flirtation came to a violent end?

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Centuries of conflict, centuries of mistrust. The between U.S. and the Muslim world is enormous and filled with land mines. But today, an unprecedented president delivered an unprecedented speech, reaching out to perhaps the most complex and hardest audience to win over.

He was applauded. He was lauded. But did President Barack Hussein Obama bridge the gap? In a word and by his own admission, no. But standing at Egypt's Cairo University today, he attempted to take a step, speaking to not only Muslims around the world but to America and to all of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Since our founding, American Muslims have enriched the United States. They have fought in our wars. They have served in our government. They have stood for civil rights. They have started businesses. They have taught at our universities. They've excelled in our sports arenas. They've won Noble prizes, built our tallest building and lifted the Olympic torch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the torch may be lit, but is the president's speech catching fire throughout the Muslim world? No better people to answer that question than our guest, Zainab Salbi. She's the founder and CEO for Women for Women International. Hussein Rashid is a blogger for ReligionDispatches.org. And Soumaya Khalifa is the executive director of the Islamic Speakers Bureau here in Atlanta.

Thank you all for being with me.

ZAINAB SALBI, FOUNDER/CEO, WOMEN FOR WOMEN INTERNATIONAL: Thank you.

HUSSEIN RASHID, BLOGGER, RELIGIONDISPATCHES.ORG: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's go ahead. I mean, you heard what he said there and the list. I mean, everything from the sports arena to the Noble prizes to our tallest building to the Olympic torch. I mean, right out of the box he talked about how Muslims have impacted all of us here in the U.S. Zainab, good move?

SALBI: I think he did a great job in his speech. I think he addressed a few things. One is the emotional needs for Muslims for acknowledgement. Acknowledgement of our past histories in teams of the arts and the science and contributions to the world in many different ways.

But also acknowledgement of the not-so-good history, of colonial -- what he addressed as the colonialism or injustice or stereotyping of the Muslim world or Muslims in general. I think that acknowledgement will go a long way, actually, in reaching out to the Muslim population.

PHILLIPS: And he -- go ahead.

SALBI: Well, another thing he did, he reached out to the people directly. The Muslim world is a world where you have a majority of the population, up to 65 percent of the population, under the age of 24. He reached out to the people directly who are mostly unemployed. They have 10 percent of unemployment in the Muslim world. There's a great anxiety of -- that addresses the economic reality, that addresses the women's issues, reaching out to the west.

And he addressed the people directly, which is what he is really good at. He is -- his community organizer experience came out in that speech in my belief.

PHILLIPS: And so did -- so did his spirit of becoming -- or being a history student. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam that places light over (UNINTELLIGIBLE), that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's renaissance and enlightenment.

It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic campus and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed.

Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: I love that poetry. But, boy did I struggle with algebra. Hussein, why the history lesson?

RASHID: You know, I think it's important to realize that what President Obama was doing was not just talking about the history of Muslims in America and the history of Muslims in the world but the history of Muslims throughout the world. I think you have to look at it as a part of a larger whole.

He's talking about the fact that Venetian architecture in Italy comes from learning from the eastern world. That you had Arabic learning present in Europe.

And at the same time when you look at President Obama starting his speech talking about the Al Azhar University and Cairo University, he's talking about the borrowings from Europe into the Arab-Muslim world.

And so I think what he's doing is he's reminding us that we're in a moment of crisis right now, but that this moment can't define our past and our future. We've had long histories of cooperation, of co- habitation, of interaction that we can continue to develop and foster. And that just because we're at a low point right now in religious relationships doesn't mean that we can't build up to something greater again.

PHILLIPS: Perfect -- perfect segue while you mentioned that, Hussein, about religion. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Much has been made of the fact that an -- an African- American with the name Barack Hussein Obama could be elected president. But my personal story is not so unique. The dream of opportunity for all people has not come true for everyone in America, but its promise exists for all who come to our shores.

That is why there is a mosque in every state in our union and over 1,200 mosques within our borders. That's why the United States government has gone to court to protect the right of women and girls to wear the hajib and to punish those who would deny it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Very much a religious speech. I mean, he quoted from the Koran. He quoted from the Bible. He quoted from the Talmud.

SOUMAYA KHALIFA, ISLAMIC SPEAKERS BUREAU OF ATLANTA: Yes. I believe President Obama did such a phenomenal job for people who are doing interfaith work. And that's what I'm engaged in. He pulled all three Abrahamic faith traditions. He pulled from references from all three.

He also did a great job connecting with Muslims around the world, the 1.5 billion Muslims around the world, with his own experiences, with his own childhood. He even reached out to them by his whole name, saying his whole name.

He did a magnificent job, and I think it's a springboard for all of us American Muslims to engage with other faith communities and engage with our fellow Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists all over the country.

And he also talked about the presence of Muslims and of Islam in America in terms of the number of mosques and the contributions of American Muslims to America itself and the story that we can tell about the opportunities in our democracy that people take advantage of.

PHILLIPS: Soumaya, Hussein and Zainab, please stay with me, because we're going to talk three more times on a number of different issues. Thank you so much. We're going to talk about women's rights in the Muslim world. That's a key talking point in the president's speech and something that demands a lot more conversation. We're going to push forward with our gests, read between the lines. We're going to hear more from them at the half hour.

But first, let's go straight to the streets of the Arab world and talk directly to the people who President Obama was trying to reach. Did he reach them? Our Cal Perry is in Beirut.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAL PERRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here at the American University of Beirut in the Lebanese capital to gauge reaction to Obama's recent speech in Cairo.

Now, this is really a center for the intellectual community, if you like, in Lebanon. And we wanted to speak to the faculty here about what they thought. We spoke first to Rami Khouri, a well-known professor here at the university. And he said that, while the Obama speech was really a grand gesture to the Arab world, giving it in Cairo, that the speech itself lacked policy initiatives.

RAMI KHOURI, POLITICAL ANALYST: Coming to Cairo, saying a couple of things in Arabic, the courtesies of Arab-Islamic culture, equating the Koran with the Bible and the Torah, these were important gestures which people appreciate.

At the policy level there wasn't much new, but the body language was good. So I give him an A-plus for implementation, and I give him kind of a C-plus for the substance.

PERRY: Now, when it comes to the countries that Obama named, Lebanon finds itself on the fringes geographically. But when it comes to the issues he spoke of, Lebanon is certainly front and center on those issues. Definitely when it comes to the Israelis and the Palestinians and the rate of return; 420,000 Palestinian refugees live in Lebanon.

We spoke to a political science professor who says he wishes he had heard more on that issue.

KARIM MAKDISI, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR: The question of Palestine and the question of the right of return, I think is a key issue in terms of if you want to resolve the Palestinian issue you're going to have to deal with the question of the Palestinian refugees and the right of return. I think this is a key issue which needs to be elaborated on.

PERRY: Now, the overall view here from the Lebanese capital is that Obama took huge strides especially in shredding off the old Bush administration by traveling to Cairo and giving this speech to the Arab world.

But people here want concrete steps taken by this new American administration. So they'll be looking to the future, to people like George Mitchell, the top U.S. envoy to the Mideast. He'll be traveling here in the next few weeks. And one of the questions is will or will he not travel to Damascus, Syria. It's that type of issue. Will this new administration take those steps engaging countries like Syria. That could be just as important as the speech Barack Obama gave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Cal Perry joins us live from Beirut.

Cal, you know, you've lived throughout the Arab world for years. What kind of changes have you seen and what did you make of the speech?

PERRY: Well, I think you that everybody, including all Americans, should take a step back and just look at the past six months.

Six months ago George W. Bush stood in one of the most secure rooms in Baghdad, and he gave a speech, and he had a shoe thrown at his head. Today the American president stood in front of the entire Arab world and said, " Assalaam alaykoum," peace be upon you. That is a huge shift in American policy and American culture when it comes to the Mideast. The past ten -- eight years, excuse me, in the Middle East, the Arab world has viewed America as being, at the very least, at times mistreating the Arab world and, at the worst of times, abusive toward the Arab world when you look at the invasion of Iraq, when you look at the Abu Ghraib photos.

So when people talk about, for example, Nixon, they say, "Nixon went to China." I'm not comparing the two on merit, but I think there's a chance people are going to look back and say, "Obama went to the Middle East."

PHILLIPS: Cal Perry, appreciate it.

You know, the Muslim world is vast, and we can't possibly cover every spot. But we are pushing forward and getting to as many places as possible, places like Afghanistan, where reaction is pouring in by the minute, especially when it comes to women's rights. We're going to take you there next hour.

Ten years in a labor camp. That's what two American journalists could be facing in North Korea. Their trial now apparently under way. And we'll have the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, what is going on across the border from El Paso? There's supposed to be a big government crackdown on the violence in Juarez, right? So how do you explain more than 40 killings in less than a week?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: American journalists are apparently stranding trial today in North Korea. That word in a brief dispatch from the country's central news agency.

Ling and Lee were arrested in March along China's border with North Korea. They were charged with entering North Korea illegally and engaging in hostile acts. A conviction could get them a ten-year sentence in a labor camp. Ling and Lee worked for former Al Gore's network, Current TV. The U.S. is pushing for their release.

As of January 1, same-sex couples can be legally married in New Hampshire. Governor John Lynch signed the bill after lawmakers agreed that churches and religious groups would not be forced to officiate. New Hampshire becomes the sixth state to allow same-sex marriages.

Images the world cannot forget. Images the Chinese government doesn't want its citizens to see. Twenty years after the Tiananmen protest, I'm going to talk with the CNN producer who was there when the Chinese government blocked our broadcast and put CNN on the map.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, no one who is alive can forget it, but the Chinese government is working hard to still keep under wraps. June 4, 1989, the crackdown on democracy activists in Beijing's Tiananmen Square. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people were killed. Can you believe that was 20 years ago? And just days before troops crushed those protests, the Chinese government pulled the plug on CNN's broadcast from Beijing.

Well, CNN's Alec Murat [SIC] -- Miran was there when Chinese government officials entered our Beijing control room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This official was saying, if you do not (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- you will not be allowed to come -- if it's that important to you -- if you do...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's that important to you...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you do not obey the...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here. Five hundred, four, one, zero, zero. You have them call us and explain what will happen. If you cannot give us an explanation, fine.

ALEC MIRAN, CNN PRODUCER: We have been very good about complying with your rules. We sent you all the proper documentation. We sent you the equipment list. We sent you -- yes, we have been cooperating. And that's why all I'm asking for is a letter.

Yes, I have a question for you. The PTTD (ph) gentlemen who were here have threatened to confiscate our satellite equipment. Is that -- is that something the foreign ministry has authorized them to do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Alec joins me now. And he says, who's that young guy? He's actually the man you just saw there, negotiating with the government officials. It was Alec's hands in the front of Bernard Shaw. He's now a senior executive producer for us here at CNN.

That definitely put your career on the map, doesn't didn't it?

MIRAN: It didn't hurt.

PHILLIPS: Now, you actually -- is this the letter that you were talking about, what we just saw in that video?

MIRAN: Yes. This is the letter that we asked them to write. Because we were trying as hard as we could to play by the rules, because they had asked us to get everything in writing to bring our satellite dish in, which was unprecedented, because to allow us that kind of unfettered access. But they wanted the coverage.

But anyway, so when they told us they were shutting us down, we asked them for a letter. And part of our negotiating strategy, at least on my part, was that in Chinese there's so many layers, it it's like an onion. And we knew those guys weren't the top-level guys. So if we asked them to write something down, it was going to be -- they didn't have the authority to do that. So it took them a couple of hours to finally get the permission. And that was valuable on the air time.

PHILLIPS: Did they even realize that that whole moment was live?

MIRAN: I told them.

PHILLIPS: You did tell them?

MIRAN: Yes.

PHILLIPS: You said, you're live on CNN right now?

MIRAN: Right.

PHILLIPS: And what were you saying? I mean, I saw your hands. I could kind of hear you there with Bernard Shaw. What were you saying? And were you trying to stall them? What was in your mind: "We've got to stay on the air as long as we can"?

MIRAN: Yes. I mean, you know, we were a little bit angry, because this was such a great story. And we'd been really covering it, and especially in the last 72 hours before that. You know, the troops had started to move toward the square one time the night before that. And we were just -- just wanted to stay on. It was the best story any of us had ever been on, I think, except for maybe Bernie. I'm sure he's done some big stuff.

And it was -- you know, they were saying, go off the air. And we were saying, well -- they said Gorbachev is over because as the great Bernie Shaw said, we went to cover a summit, we walked into a revolution. We were there for the Gorbachev visit, which turned into Tiananmen Square.

PHILLIPS: Crazy.

MIRAN: And so when they said, "You've got to go. Gorbachev is gone," we said, "What about the stuff we did before Gorbachev came that you liked?" Because Jeanne Moos was there doing wonderful stories on bird sellers and very interesting Tai Chi stories and cultural stuff. Because we were trying to explain China to the world, because it was still a closed society.

So when they said, "You've got to go," we said, "No, you know, let's play fair." And we were really only bickering at that point over about eight hours of satellite time.

PHILLIPS: What was it like to just -- because once you went off the air, you were still there are. You were still seeing everything. We all remember -- I mean, I have the poster, many of us still have the poster, of the one man standing there in front of that tank. Is it still as vivid for you? Can you remember what you were thinking at that moment? I mean, did you even expect that so many were going to be killed? I mean...

MIRAN: Well, I think -- it was interesting because when I went first -- for the first survey trip to set this up in April, Mike Chinoy, our bureau chief, he came and knocked on my door at 11 p.m. one night and said, "You have to see this. There are people protesting."

I said, "In China?"

He said, "Yes." We went down to Tiananmen Square, and there were eight kids walking around, being led by the police. And every day I would say -- I came back here to plan the trip, and I'd say, "Mike, what's doing on in the square?"

He said, "It's unbelievable. It's growing." And he said, "It's not going to happen." He said, "They're going to come in there." He said, "They will kill those kids if they have to."

So Mike being a veteran Chinese -- we all think a country is not going to kill their own people. But Mike knew that this had happened. Maybe it never happened with cameras around before. But there had been other demonstrations, small demonstrations in other parts of the country that he knew about where, you know, word would leak out that they came in and crushed their own.

So Mike was very clear from the beginning that it could be very dangerous, and it could have been -- he thought it could have been dangerous for us.

PHILLIPS: And it truly put us on the map.

Real quickly, you had a funny moment in the middle of all this chaos.

MIRAN: When the gentleman first came in and they said, "You have to speak to our boss at the foreign ministry," who I had negotiated with to get a satellite dish in. I knew him fairly well, I think. And he hadn't been returning my calls, because we were trying to extend the lease. Anyway, I said to them, "Have him call me right here." And I gave them a number.

PHILLIPS: You told the Chinese.

MIRAN: I told the Chinese.

PHILLIPS: OK.

MIRAN: Call me. And you can sort of hear it on the tape. And about five minutes later the phone rang, and I picked it up and thought, oh, gosh, it was him. So I'm trying to think of what I'm going to do, negotiate. I pick it up. And it was a woman from Minnesota who said, "You're doing great. Just keep it up, whatever you're doing." And I'm thinking, thank you for that, but I need to keep this phone line open.

PHILLIPS: I hope she's still watching CNN.

MIRAN: It was a funny moment.

PHILLIPS: She just got a shout-out.

MIRAN: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Historic and infamous moment on many levels. It was really great talking to you, Alec.

MIRAN: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: We're sure glad you're still with the company. I want to see that letter later, too.

MIRAN: OK.

PHILLIPS: Look at the characters.

Well, 20 years later, it's a lot quieter in Tiananmen Square. It's flooded, actually, with both uniformed and plain-clothes police this week to prevent any hint of commemorations or protest. Well, you can see our John Vause right there. He actually went to the square to report on what he saw. And as you can imagine, you probably won't believe what happened. We're going to show you next hour.

Well, Chad Myers joining us now from the CNN weather center. Chad, what were you doing on that day 20 years ago when the tanks rolled through Tiananmen Square? Do you remember?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I was working in Richmond, Virginia, and we protested by not ordering Chinese food for, like, a week. Like that was going to do any good. But it's like whatever.

PHILLIPS: But you know what? You took a stand. I'm impressed.

MYERS: Exactly right.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Chad, talk to you in a minute.

Well, terminally ill and nowhere to turn. There's at least one doctor who will sell some hope. But it ain't cheap, and there are no guarantees. So is it worth the chance and the cost?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Too many tears have been shed. Too much blood has been shed. All of us have a responsibility to work for the day when the mothers of Israelis and Palestinians can see their children grow up without fear, when the holy land of the three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be. When Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together.

As in the story of Islam -- as in the story of Islam, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, peace be upon them, joined in prayer. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Tolerance, tensions, tears and blood. President Obama covered it all today. He spoke in Cairo, Egypt, but he was talking to the world, specifically the Muslim world. But also to Jews, Christians and just about everybody else.

So much to cover here. And so we're bringing our guests back. Zainab Salbi is the founder and CEO of Women for Women International, a pretty incredible organization. Also Hussein Rashid, he's a blogger for religiondispatches.org. And Soumaya Khalifa is the executive director of the Islamic Speakers Bureau here in Atlanta, Georgia.

You know, Soumaya, you've got the emphasis on religion and faith and multi-faith. I mean, talk about a brilliant speech writer to fold in the story of Isra, yes?

KHALIFA: Absolutely incredible.

PHILLIPS: And tell me why from a Muslim's perspective why that story specifically was a very powerful move.

KHALIFA: It was a very powerful move in terms of taking the time and putting in the effort to go into Islamic history and Islamic culture and what is important to Muslims. It's not just, let's come together and talk, but to make reference to the Islamic history piece. And I think that carried a lot of weight for Muslims in general.

PHILLIPS: And when you talk Islamic history and religion, that folds perfectly into how the president is wanting to deal with the tensions. Tensions of Iran, tensions with regard to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.

Hussein, let me ask you -- and pick -- either Iran, or the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Did he achieve what you think he wanted to achieve when addressing what he called two very big tensions for him?

RASHID: I think from a policy perspective he definitely did. Specifically with respect to Iran.

The coup -- attempted coup of Mossadegh in 1953 is a sore point for Iranians. And the fact that he was able to acknowledge it and say, we are willing to meet with Iranians as equal partners is an incredibly important statement for an American president to make and really -- he's really put the onus on Iran now to come around and say, OK we really want to be partners for peace now.

And I think the religious language he used is really important, as well. The selections from the Koran he used talk about affirming Islam was part of the Jewish and Christian revelatory tradition as well. And reminding Muslims, you know, if you're listening to this as a Muslim, it really reminds Muslims that we are part of a larger faith community, as well.

So Iran can't go around denying the Holocaust without ignoring the verse from the Koran that President Obama quoted. Be conscious of God and always speak the truth, which comes in reference to the end of the Cain and Abel story. You know, do not commit fratricide. Do not kill your brothers. And so there are certain resonances that he was able to build in, both directly addressing Iran, and indirectly addressing Iran. And I think he delivered the message just masterfully.

PHILLIPS: So Zainab, is religion the way to touch a pulse here when it comes to violence, political strife, and death and destruction there in the Middle East?

SALBI: I think it needs to be addressed. We have in the Middle East, two contradictions between very strong Islamic movement on the street level and between what is often seen by the population, an authoritarian regimes.

And he was actually able to address both sides. He's talking about democracy and the need for transparent governments and inclusive government was actually a very good way of appealing to the government of the Middle East. And addressing the population's needs for more democracy in the Middle East.

In the meantime, he also was very clear about violence is not the way to go. It was very funny (ph) to distinguish Hamas's role particularly, that you need to be open in here for dialogue, for discussions in a way that got Hamas leaders giving good reviews or at least positive reviews, in terms of the speech.

So, there is a way -- actually he handled the whole issue of we need democracy and openness as a way to go and not violence. It was a very smart way of addressing both the government, as well as the Islamic groups there.

PHILLIPS: Interesting that you talk about the issue of democracy.

Hussein, before we roll into our next section of subject matter since Zainab brought it up -- you know, that's been one of the biggest controversies is that the U.S. president has always tried to force countries in the Middle East to be democratic when history hasn't always been that way. And that's been a big tug-of-war is, don't make us be what you want us to be.

RASHID: I think you're absolutely right. And I think that it's not always forcing. You know, America has not always forced democracy on other countries. It has in fact tried to espouse its values. You know, when reverend John Winthrop said it, when President Kennedy said it, when Secretary of State Clinton said it, to be a shining beacon on a hill in describing America. The idea is we as a country would represent ourselves as a moral exemplar what people would want to be.

We've had periods where we've tried to force freedom and democracy on others and that strikes me odd, trying to force freedom on other people. At the same time, we also propped up the (INAUDIBLE) regimes. Like the Mubarak regime, like the certain other family, royal families in the Middle East. And so, we do have this conflicting notion. I think what President Obama did today was wonderful, which was to say, we are going to go back to being that shining beacon on a hill, that shining city on a hill. And we are going to show you a way that we think is a good way and we want you to be democratic in your ways but not in name only.

PHILLIPS: We're going to talk more about that oppression. That's going to be the next key item we're going to key in on. So, Hussein, Soumaya, Zainab; stay with me. We want to talk about women's rights in the Muslim world as a key talking point in the president's speech. Matter of fact, apparently he wrote that part of the speech and it demands a lot more conversation.

We're going to push forward with our guests and read between the lines. We're going to hear more from them next hour.

Also, take terminal patients, desperate and vulnerable with nothing less to lose, you add a man with an alternative vision and you get this story from Drew Griffin, of our special investigations unit. He talks with a doctor who's offering hope that these patients can't get in the U.S. A hope that comes with no guarantees and an enormous bill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIONATION UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We met in a hotel room in Tampa. Later, this very day, 80-year-old Dr. Burke Feinerman would fly to Peru to meet three Americans he says will be treated with stem cells. The patients he says, all terminally ill.

(on camera): Are you curing these diseases?

DR. BURTON FEINERMAN, STEMCELLSREGENMED.COM: I wouldn't -- I never use the word "cure" with people because, number one, our work has only been over the past three years.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): He doesn't use words like "cure" on his web site. He uses the words, "treatment" and "hope" and offers pictures and stories of those he says he has helped. This work is done in at this clinic in Lima, Peru, because the treatment is not approved in the United States.

The idea is tantalizingly simple. Take healthy embryonic or even umbilical cord stem cells, inject them into a diseased body where they would repair the damage. Scientific studies have yet to prove that works, only some progress in laboratory animals. The FDA has only just approved a single clinical trial.

But you that hasn't stopped Dr. Feinerman from charging patients with cancer, to muscular dystrophy between $8,000 to $25,000, to at least see if simple injections could work.

(on camera): Isn't exactly what you're doing is just experimenting on these people? FEINERMAN: Yes. And people are fully aware.

GRIFFIN: Charging them large amounts of money to do it those experiments?

FEINERMAN: The amount of money is large, but it basically is pretty close to my cost.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): In an e-mail after this interview, Dr. Feinerman said, "We are not selling snake oil, but our scientific approach to diseases that are not available in the USA."

He admits his background in stem cell research is limited.

FEINERMAN: I myself trained at the Mayo Clinic and have been in medical practice for over 50 years. So, and we also have --

GRIFFIN (on camera): But you've never trained in stem cell research.

FEINERMAN: No.

GRIFFIN: You've gone to some international conferences, self- taught.

FEINERMAN: That's true.

GRIFFIN: And now you're basically taking people from the United States to other countries because the procedures can't legally be done here.

FEINERMAN: That is right. But, again, the person -- I am the organizer, so to speak. I'm the person who does an enormous amount of reading and visiting and discovering and putting protocols together that appear to work in other countries.

GRIFFIN: But aren't you in the end just pedaling hope? Pedaling hope with no real proven cures?

FEINERMAN: I take offense to the word pedaling. And I want to -- I feel that we're not just offering hope and holding their hand. We're offering a realistic sign, what we feel is a scientific, medical treatment.

GRIFFIN: Thousands of Americans are seeking that very treatment. Desperate people, many of with incurable diseases who will take a chance paying tens of thousands of dollars for promises of treatment overseas.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Tampa, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, remember, if something sounds too good to be true, run. Shady companies are out there promising deep discounts at the doctor's office and in the hospital. Sounds good if you don't have insurance, but ask the woman with Crone's disease who paid $300 bucks up-front to enroll with one company; paid nearly $200 bucks a month on top of that. Then found out the doctor never even heard of the program even though the company claims he was in their network. It's a mess and there's quite bit of this going on. Read more about it at CNNHealth.com.

Heading to church with your hymnal and your handgun. What would Jesus do? One pastor says, lock and load. Mark your calendars for a bring a gun to church day. The pastor joins us live.

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PHILLIPS: Well, a Kentucky pastor wants you to go in peace with your piece. He's holding a kind of bring your gun to church day. The Saturday night special billed as an open carry service, well, there's going to be picnic, music, talks by gun shop and firing range owners, even a raffle to raise money for charity. Grand prize? Take a guess.

Ken Pagano, the pistol packing pastor joins me on the line from Lousiville.

Pastor, can you hear me OK?

VOICE OF KEN PAGANO, PASTOR: Yes, that's a great intro, too. Very creative. You're as outside the box as I am. So, I applaud you.

PHILLIPS: If you only knew, pastor. You and I are two of a kind.

PAGANO: I think so. I think after though this event I may have a thinking inside the box, where it's safe again.

It's -- you know what? If nothing else, even if we didn't do this event from this point, I think it's done what we've wanted it to do, to get people's attention that there are level-headed, decent community community-oriented, legal, law-abiding citizens who believe in the right to keep and bear arms and promoting gun safety for all of those involved.

PHILLIPS: Tell me why, though, as a pastor, why fold in the church aspect here?

PAGANO: Well, from a personal perspective, I'm a former Marine. I was raised in New Jersey. EMT, I'm a certified pistol instructor. So, this is just something that I do personally.

But let's face it and I'm not ashamed to say this, without a deep-seeded belief in God or firearms, this country would not be here today. So I'm not opposed to that. Not all Christians are pacifists. Not all dominations Christian denominations are pacifistic. I believe that for a Christian pacifism is an option, not a requirement. And if that's what you choose to do, you have your freedom to do so just as I do.

PHILLIPS: And let me ask you as a pastor because, you know, there's a number of very strong Christian types possibly within your church. You'll have to tell me if anybody's come to you.

Well, let me ask you this, has anyone in your congregation come up to you and said, pastor, are you crazy?

PAGANO: No, Well, here's the thing. You know, this isn't a dictatorship. We have a -- I am a pastor. I'm an elder in deacon board. We discuss things, we pray about them and then we -- if we have an idea, we present it to the congregation. Then the congregation says yea or nay. And when the vote is made then, you know, there's always going to be some people who are hesitant or maybe not agree with it. If this is what we all choose to do, then we're going to support it now.

PHILLIPS: And from a Christian perspective, from a biblical perspective --

PAGANO: Yes, ma'am. PHILLIPS: Those that come up to you and say, OK, I understand you were a Marine, I understand that you support gun safety and the right to bear arms --

PAGANO: Yes, absolutely.

PHILLIPS: How do you -- when they say to you biblically, we're supposed to be peaceful and not kill one another and guns can be the root of all evil --

PAGANO: Well, you know it's the idea of peaceful. As again, not all Christian traditions are pacifistic. Some would say turn the other cheek as purely being something that had to do with disrespect, not for personal protection or protection of family.

As a -- from my Christian tradition, which is assemblies of God, we are conservative protestant evangelical. We take seriously Old and New Testaments, try to synthesize them the best we can. And it's not just the words in that red we go by. We believe that God has spoken covenantally, Genesis to Revelation.

PHILLIPS: Well, I tell you what, I have a feeling it's going to be one of the safest places in town.

PAGANO: You know what? I agree. It's going to be a cold range service, which I'm getting flak even from the gun community like, why aren't you letting people wear loaded guns? Well, there's insurance purposes. We're going to have safety, we're going to have security. We're going to have people checking the guns.

Cold range means you wear it openly, which is legal in Kentucky. If this was being done in the country Kentucky it probably might not raise as much attention, but because we're Louisville, it's a little different. But, the guns will be checked. They must be unloaded in a secure holster and that's what cold range means. It's typical of almost every gun range that I know of. That's how they operate until you actually go to the firing line. There will be no live fire here. This is a building.

And that's just -- listen, there may be some people who conceal carry. And they'll do that hot.

PHILLIPS: Well, you bring a whole new meaning to fire and brimstone, that's for sure.

Pastor Ken Pagado, we're going to follow up. I want to see how it goes.

PAGADO: Sure, thanks.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Well, it looks like it finally happened. The homicidal violence in Juarez, Mexico, has spilled into El Paso. So, what happened? Did the Mexican government's cartel crackdown? We're going to tell you.

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PHILLIPS: U.S. envoy Richard Holbrooke is in Pakistan, to address the ongoing violence in the country's Swat Valley. A month long offensive to try to oust the Taliban has displaced some 3 million people now. At a news conference in Islamabad, Holbrooke ridiculed Osama bin Laden's assertion that U.S. policy should be blamed for the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, SPECIAL ENVOY FOR AFGHANISTAN & PAKISTAN: The idea that anyone is responsible for the refugee crisis other than al Qaeda and the Taliban and the other people who have caused such tragedy in western Pakistan, is ludicrous. This entire problem begins with al Qaeda and its associates and everybody in the world knows that. And it's silly to even respond to such a ludicrous charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHLILIPS; Well, if you'd like to learn more about the situation in Pakistan, or if you'd like to impact your world by helping refugees there you can logon to CNN.com/impact.

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PHILLIPS: Well, it's time for us to push forward now on a story that we've been following for months. Violence near the U.S. border, near Mexico. More that 40 killings in the last week in Juarez. And now it looks like the violence has spilled over. A Mexican citizen who lived in El Paso, shot eight times in El Paso. Police say he was a cartel member, and they're investigating a drug link to his death.

Martin Bartlett from KVIA-TV in El Paso has been our go-to guy on this story. And, Martin, you know, first of all, tell us what's going on in Juarez.

MARTIN BARTLETT, KVIA-TV CORRESPONDENT: First off, as you mentioned, Kyra, more than a dozen, two dozen nearly, killings right across the border in Ciudad Juarez. It has been a very bloody week, a very bloody weekend right across the border form El Paso. And that bloody week and bloody weekend comes after months of dramatically reduced violence in Ciudad Juarez. So there's a lot of concern on both sides of the border as to why the violence is coming back.

PHILLIPS: And why is that? I mean, there was this massive military crackdown in that area, they infiltrated it with -- and it was not only military, but more police forces.

BARTLETT: Well, you know, that is the million-dollar question here along the border. And the answer probably twofold. You know, this issue of violence along the border, violence in Juarez was top of mind for officials in Washington, it was top of mind for officials in Mexico City, for a very long time.

So the thinking seems to be that priorities must have just shifted on both sides of the border and there may have been a little complacency as well. Folks saw the violence shrink and so the intense interest kind of dwindled, apparently only at the peril of folks on the ground in the border. Of course, as you mentioned, we're seeing a very real rise in the level of violence. It very much mirrors what we saw several months ago before Mexican troops were on the ground in Juarez.

PHILLIPS: OK. So, let's then talk about the death in El Paso, because I was reading that possibly it was a midlevel cartel member that was killed in El Paso.

So, is this the first sign that the cartels and that drug war is spilling in to El Paso? And then, of course, you know, that worries everybody else that's close to El Paso, and then you start moving state by state. And you know, and it's a frightening thought.

BARTLETT: It is a frightening thought. But the answer to your question really kind of depends on who you ask.

We're getting a very counterintuitive message from both El Paso police and federal law enforcement. They are stopping short of calling this spillover from Juarez. They admit that this victim was a midlevel member of the Juarez drug cartel.

However, what I'm hearing from sources on the ground is that this individual was going to be targeted no matter where he was. They say this was a hit that was going to be carried out for very specific purposes, and they say it could have been carried out if this gentleman was in Juarez, if he was in El Paso, if he was in Dallas.

They say this was a very specific hit, and because of that they're stopping short of calling it spillover from Juarez.

PHILLIPS: Now, because of you, Martin, we had the first interview with the border czar just when it was announced in El Paso.

Have you heard anything from him? Is he responding to this at all?

BARTLETT: So far, haven't too much of a response from Washington. Again, federal law enforcement here on the ground in El Paso paying very close attention to this murder.

It is undeniably a very shaking thing to see someone gunned down because of drug violence in the middle of an El Paso neighborhood. Had someone -- A U.S. citizen perhaps, someone who no connection to the drug violence in Juarez, been the victim of cross fire, maybe we'd hear a very different response now.

PHILLIPS: Martin Bartlett, from KVIA. I know you came early for us. But, you're the best guy for the story, Martin.

Thanks so much.