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Supreme Court Justice Throws Wrench Into Chrysler's Bankruptcy Plans; Air France Crash Mystery; Future of Health Care; 10 Banks OK'd to Repay TARP; Abortion Doctor's Suspected Murderer Speaks to CNN; Iranian Voters Express Themselves

Aired June 09, 2009 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. It is Tuesday, June 9th, and here are the faces of the stories driving the headlines today in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg throwing a wrench into Chrysler's bankruptcy plans. What her decision means for the deal with Fiat.

He is accused of killing a Kansas abortion doctor. Scott Roeder will talk with CNN's Ted Rowlands in a jailhouse interview.

And the eldest son of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il in a rare TV interview. New threats from his country about nuclear weapons, what he says about North Korea's future leadership.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

The Supreme Court slams on the brakes, halting Chrysler's path to a quick and easy bankruptcy process. The court delaying the company's sale to Italian automaker Fiat. Without that sale Chrysler may be forced to shut down completely.

Let's get right to CNN's Christine Romans in New York.

Christine, good to see you.

What does this delay mean?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it presses the pause button, if you will, on this whole process and certainly slows down what has been that surgical bankruptcy that the White House promised. There's not a legal ruling here. This is simply a pressing the pause button.

HARRIS: Let's take a look at it.

ROMANS: Right, so that the Supreme Court can decide whether these bondholders have a case, whether their case should be heard -- Tony.

HARRIS: What is it that the bondholders want? And maybe we should start with who they are.

ROMANS: Who they are. OK. These are Indiana firefighters, teachers, these are people who are public employees who have invested through a pension fund and had loaned $42 million to Chrysler. And in this bankruptcy procedure, as orchestrated by the bankruptcy judge and the White House, they were going to get 29 cents on the dollar for their investment, and they say that their rights have been violated, essentially. That because they were secured creditors, that under a normal bankruptcy procedure, they would have been considered higher on the list and would have been paid maybe more. Who knows?

HARRIS: Hey, Christine, do we know where they are on this list? I get the idea of wanting to move ahead, but I would imagine there are a lot of people in this line who would like to move ahead.

ROMANS: Oh, yes. Oh, Tony, look, this is a very small amount of money in the grand scheme of it, and just a small kind of investor. There are a lot of other people who...

HARRIS: But important to the firefighters and everyone else in the bunch, I get that. But yes, relatively speaking.

ROMANS: Right. But a lot of other people had agreed to this.

They had agreed to the fact that the UAW and the taxpayer would take such a big stake in this and that Fiat would be able to get a bigger stake down the road. I mean, almost everybody else has agreed to this.

What it really is, I think, it's sort of a test. If it's allowed to go through, Tony, it's a test of whether some of the -- you know, whether you loan money to somebody and you're told that these are going to be the terms, if that can be rewritten and changed in bankruptcy court the way it has been done here.

HARRIS: And what are the implications -- and maybe you just sort of alluded to it -- the implications for the government moving forward if this deal delays beyond the point where Chrysler continues to be viable?

ROMANS: Well, there's a June 15th deadline for Fiat. So far, Fiat is still on board here. Fiat is not backing away at this point. But if you drag this out, I mean, Fiat, at least in theory, could walk away.

But Tony, what I think is interesting is this is the first real test. If indeed the Supreme Court wants to hear more on this, it's the first real test of this White House and its intervention to remake the auto industry and its intervention in general in the American economy. This is the checks and balances, right?

HARRIS: Well, wait a minute. You're absolutely right about that, but I'm curious, if Fiat is on board and isn't showing any signs that it's willing to pull out of the deal past this June 15th deadline, why not take a step back and look at the case in greater detail unless there is some concern that if these Chrysler plans weren't up and running, say, by the end of the month, the company is no longer viable?

ROMANS: Well, people are worried about an outright liquidation of this company. The company is losing, Tony, $69,444 every minute.

HARRIS: Wow.

ROMANS: Every minute. So, every minute that goes by it's losing more money. And, of course, the financing for this company in bankruptcy is from you and I, from the American taxpayer.

So, you have some people who are saying, look -- especially the dealers, people who have jobs -- suppliers, people who have jobs in this industry are saying, look, don't slow this down. Let's try to remake this company outside of bankruptcy, let's get this done.

And at least this group of bondholders, they see this as a small victory for their rights. They just don't think that you should -- they also raise another question, Tony. They say that the TARP money, the bank bailout money, can't be used for an auto company. That the law was never written that way.

HARRIS: That, of course, is way out of the barn though, isn't it? I mean, it's way out of the barn.

You know what? One other point here. Maybe this is one of the critical questions that we'll get an opportunity to take up with Richard Mourdock. We booked him on the show.

ROMANS: Oh, good.

HARRIS: He's going to join us, Indiana's state treasurer.

U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan says that the losses to the Indiana pension funds shouldn't outweigh the potential broader problems a collapse of Chrysler would present.

So, we can ask that question maybe a little later this morning.

ROMANS: That's a very good point.

HARRIS: All right. I think we solved the problem. We didn't solve a thing.

All right. Christine Romans, thank you so much.

ROMANS: It's a big problem, Tony. We can keep talking about it, though, because the twist and turns certainly make it interesting, right?

HARRIS: And as you said this morning on "AMERICAN MORNING," it's a real mess.

ROMANS: It is.

HARRIS: All right, Christine. Appreciate it. Thank you. And coming up just past the half hour, we will talk to Indiana State Treasurer Richard Mourdock and find out why he's happy with the deal, the fact that it's on hold now and what happens next. That's coming up in about 30 minutes or so.

Billions of your tax dollars the focus of two hearings right now on Capitol Hill. The joint House and Senate panel overseeing the hundreds of billions to bail out banks issuing its monthly report today. The committee is calling for regulators to continue stress tests on banks that took bailout money if they keep large amounts of mortgage securities on their books. Meanwhile, discussing the fiscal year 2010 budget, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman, they're testifying before the Senate Financial Services Appropriations Committee.

A hearing under way right now on what could have been an aviation disaster. Instead, it became known as the "Miracle on the Hudson." The NTSB holding hearings on the emergency landings of a US Airways jet in the Hudson River.

Live pictures right now. The plane lost both engines after it hit a flock of birds. The pilot, Captain Chesley Sullenberger, told officials the Hudson landing was his best option.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. CHESLEY SULLENBERGER, PILOT, US AIRWAYS: The first option, of course, was to return to LaGuardia. I took a look out the left window at the landmarks, at the distance remaining from where we were to LaGuardia, and the fact that we were already at low altitude, at low airspeed, heading away from the airport.

When I took control of the airplane with the airplane still in a climb altitude but without (ph) decline thrust on the airplane, our airspeed began to decay (ph) rapidly. In order to lower the nose and maintain a safe line speed, our rate of descent necessarily increased dramatically.

Looking at where we were and how much time, altitude and distance would be required to turn back toward LaGuardia and then fly toward LaGuardia, I determined quickly that that was going to be problematic, and it would not be a realistic choice. And I couldn't afford to be wrong.

Once I turned toward LaGuardia, it would have been an irrevocable choice, eliminating all other options. I had to make sure I could make it before I chose that option. I decided I couldn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Boy, dramatic all over again.

The hearing is focusing on the ability of aircraft engines to withstand bird strikes and emergency procedures for double engine failure. Federal officials say they plan to beef up their inspections, pilot training programs at regional airlines. This comes after last month's testimony revealed critical errors by the captain and co-pilot of the deadly Buffalo crash on February 12th.

The plane stalled before plunging to the ground, killing all 49 people on board and a man on the ground. The testimony indicated the flight's captain may not have had hands-on training on a critical cockpit safety system, and the co-pilot described her lack of experience flying in icy weather on a cockpit voice recorder not long before the crash.

The health care debate heats up on Capitol Hill today. Are House Democrats ready to unveil their big plan?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: For the first time ever a Guantanamo Bay detainee is in the United States to face criminal charges. Ahmed Ghailani has been brought to New York. He will face trial for the 1998 bombings of the American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. More than 200 people were killed in those blasts.

The Tanzanian national had been held at Guantanamo Bay for almost three years. He is now with the Metropolitan Correctional Center, which has housed numerous terrorism suspects over the years. Justice officials say Ghailani is expected to make his initial appearance in federal court later today.

The CIA is fighting to keep its interrogation records classified. Director Leon Panetta says releasing the records could cause exceptionally grave damage to national security. In a sworn declaration submitted to federal court, Panetta states that exposing details of harsh interrogation procedures would give al Qaeda ammunition for its propaganda war against the United States.

On another front, FBI Director Robert Mueller is defending the use of informants inside mosques. He says his agency will continue to practice despite complaints from Islamic groups.

Twenty-four bodies have been recovered from Air France Flight 447. The whereabouts of the plane and the cause of last week's crash still very much a mystery. This morning, the first of the bodies were flown back to Brazil, where they will be identified.

CNN's Karl Penhaul is on an island off the coast of Brazil and he joins us by phone.

And Karl, what kind of work is going on at your location?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN VIDEO CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, in the last few minutes, a helicopter has landed on the island of Fernando de Noronha, and that is bringing another eight bodies of the people rescued or recovered from the Atlantic Ocean. Those bodies have been brought from a ship onto the island, and they're being handed over to forensic teams as we speak.

They're being stretchered off a Super Puma helicopter. Their bodies are now in body bags. But some of them indeed look as if they're bloated. Those body bags, in some cases, seem very large, indeed.

This is something that is likely to go on for the course of part of the day. At least once that work, the initial work of cataloguing those bodies is complete, they will be put in refrigerated containers and then flown back to the Brazilian mainland -- Tony.

HARRIS: Karl, what's next in the investigation?

PENHAUL: There are a number of steps that have to be followed.

First of all, the Brazilian authorities say for their part, their priority is to recover as many bodies as possible. Remember, there were 228 people on board that Air France flight when it went down. They say that their second priority is recovering as much debris of the airplane itself.

Now, yesterday, part of the vertical stabilizer was found in the sea. That work is continuing. And then in the course of the week, a French nuclear submarine and also U.S. naval equipment will be over the search zone to continue (INAUDIBLE) voice and data recorders, the black boxes. And then, in addition to that, both the bodies and debris must be analyzed by forensic teams to see what clues they offer about what the cause of this crash (ph) were -- Tony.

HARRIS: All right. CNN's Karl Penhaul for us on an island off the coast of Brazil.

Well, House Democrats discussing their plan to overhaul your health care. You'll find out what we can expect from the discussions today.

Let's bring in our senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash. She's on Capitol Hill.

And Dana, good to see you.

House Democrats, I understand, are caucusing today on health care. I'm curious, will this be a policy discussion, an update on the process, maybe strategy, maybe all of the above?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's probably all of the above. But, you know, it is going to happen this hour, that House Democrats are going to meet, and they're going to be discussing what we understand is going to be an outline, just an outline of some of the options that they're looking at. And it won't probably be surprising as to some of those options. You and I talked about it yesterday. They are some of the fundamentals of what Democrats are now pushing. First and foremost, the concept of a government-run program, health insurance program to compete with private insurers. And also a kind of mandate for all Americans to have health insurance.

Now, one of the most controversial things that they are discussing as an option now is how to pay for this. And the way that they are discussing paying for maybe a trillion dollars at least in overhauling the health care system to do this is taxing employer-based benefits.

This, of course, again, is very controversial. It's something that President Obama ran ads against John McCain on during the campaign. The White House seems to be ambivalent at best about going this way in terms of how to pay for it, but this is just one option that House Democrats, at least, are apparently going to have on the table as three key committees work towards a process of dealing with this very important issue together.

HARRIS: And Dana, let's take a look at the Senate side. What is happening there?

BASH: What's happening on the Senate side is that the committee that Ted Kennedy chairs -- Ted Kennedy, of course, has not been here. He's been gone, ailing from his brain tumor, but his staff has been working. And Chris Dodd, his very old friend, has essentially become the public face of his push in his committee.

They are -- later today -- they've accelerated their process. Later today we are going to see a very detailed bill from his office and his committee because what they want to do is they want to talk to Republicans about this tomorrow. They want to hold a hearing on it this coming Friday, and begin to actually work through the details of their bill next week. So this is going to be very fast.

And listen to what Chris Dodd told us in a press conference just a little while ago about their approach with regard to Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: There are some gaps in it, and done so intentionally. There are no gaps in our determination, in my determination and that of my colleagues, to have a public option, to have something done with a pay or play, to deal with the follow-on biologics.

But I left those areas open for discussion not because they're open for some sort of decision about whether or not we ought to move in that direction, but I want my Republican colleagues on the committee to know I want their ideas. I want to hear what they have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, when he says "gaps," we are told by committee aides that there likely are going to be blank pages left under those controversial issues. First and foremost, the issue of government-run health care.

Look, we know from Republicans yesterday -- Republicans continually coming out for the most part against that option. But still, Democrats, at least in terms of approach, in terms of the politics of this, they are going to sit down with the Republican colleagues leaving how you approach that blank in the hopes that they can come up with some kind of consensus, common ground on that. That's going to be very difficult to do.

HARRIS: Boy oh boy. We are starting to get there on this debate, aren't we? And when you talk about gaps and a proposal, that's where the real hard work is.

BASH: You got it.

HARRIS: Our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash for us.

Dana, appreciate it. Thank you.

BASH: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: We're going to continue this discussion, I promise you, in just a couple minutes, public versus private health care. Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us next as we weigh the pros and cons.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: This just in to CNN. You know, there has been a lot of speculation as to what would happen to Dr. George Tiller's clinic in the aftermath of his death, his murder. As you know, the man suspected in that murder, Scott Roeder, is in prison right now.

Our Ted Rowlands is in that prison, and we expect him to sit down and have a conversation with Scott Roeder shortly. And we will bring you portions of that interview, that discussion with Ted Rowlands, in just a bit.

But again, many have been wondering what would happen to Dr. Tiller's clinic. Well, we have some clarity on this.

We just received a statement from Lee Thompson, an attorney for George Tiller's family. And here it is. I'll read it to you.

"The family of Dr. George Tiller announces that effective immediately, Women's Health Care Services Inc. will be permanently closed. Notices being given today to all concerned that the Tiller family is ceasing operation of the clinic and any involvement by family members in any other similar clinic. The Tiller family wishes to assure Dr. Tiller's past patients that the privacy of their medical histories and patient records will remain as fiercely protected now and in the future as they were during Dr. Tiller's lifetime."

So, there is the update I believe a lot of us have been waiting on. Some determination as to what would happen with Dr. Tiller's clinic. And we're just receiving word that it will be permanently closed.

It is an issue that affects you and your family, so we are continuing our conversation on plans to overhaul the nation's health care system.

Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is back to help us dig a little deeper on some key points.

And we started a discussion yesterday, Elizabeth, where we were talking about the pros and cons of -- let me get it correct here -- government-sponsored health insurance as an option, because I know the wording on this gets tricky and some are suggesting that language is Democratic code, this, that and the other. So I think we covered those bases. OK?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. I want to explain a little bit about what this option would be.

HARRIS: OK.

COHEN: Just one sentence here.

HARRIS: Yes, set it up for us.

COHEN: Let's say you or I are out shopping for health insurance, and one option is something that is backed by the government, a government-sponsored health insurance. Or let's say our employer is shopping for health insurance and that is one of the options. That's what's being discussed here.

HARRIS: OK. Now, we are learning that there are proposals being worked on right now. Chris Dodd just mentioned -- we just learned from Dana Bash that he is going to release a little later today details, a lot of details as to the plan that he and his committee are working on.

Let's talk about the pushback that it is likely to come, let's talk about the cons of the government-sponsored health insurance option.

COHEN: Right. Here's the criticism that the president is getting on the idea of having a government-sponsored option for health insurance.

Let's take a look. There are sort of two -- many points here, but let's look at the two big ones.

First of all, one of the big points is that it would be poor quality health care that the government would be getting in between the doctor and the patient, and the patient would not get what he or she needs.

HARRIS: And then what does that mean? Does that mean determining what tests are run and -- what does that mean, poor quality? We don't...

COHEN: OK. Let's play doctor, you and me.

HARRIS: Great. All right.

COHEN: OK. I'm the doctor and you're the patient. And I, as the doctor, I might think to myself, Mr. Harris, you really need an expensive procedure, but I'm thinking in my head, oh, no, the government will never pay for that, so I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to recommend it. I'm going to recommend something cheaper that maybe isn't as good.

That's the concern.

HARRIS: That's the concern.

COHEN: I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. That's sort of the nightmare scenario that people are putting out there.

HARRIS: OK. Let's put that graphic, that same graphic back up.

So we've discussed a little bit about the concerns on poor quality. What is the other point here, the other con?

COHEN: The other con is that a government-backed health insurance plan would be unfair competition. The government has a lot of money, they can underwrite a health care insurance and use their huge, huge buying power to give a cheaper product, a less expensive product.

So, let's say you, Mr. Harris, are out shopping for insurance and you see that this government-sponsored one is so much cheaper than what United or Aetna or anybody else is putting out there. Man, you might jump on it.

HARRIS: Well, wait a minute.

COHEN: And that means the private health insurance companies would suffer.

HARRIS: Don't we believe in competition?

COHEN: I asked an aide to a Republican congressman that. I said, "I can't believe I am hearing from you that you don't like competition." And he said, "It's unfair competition." And what it means is that you would end up with a monopoly, so that the government would be the only ones out there...

HARRIS: Well, that would suggest that the private insurers would simply get out of the business. Is there anything to suggest that they would all of a sudden decide they don't want to work in the business where they've made a lot of money over the years?

COHEN: Well, there is concern. And again, I'm just saying concern that those private health insurers would be, like, man, we are really suffering. We have to get out of the business, or we have to do something different, or whatever. Who knows? This is all hypothetical because there is no plan out there. I think that's important to say. There is no plan out there, but that is the worry.

HARRIS: Yes. And we'll get some ideas on at least one plan a little bit later today.

You know what? Let's leave it here with a discussion of the cons, and then we'll come back and we'll talk about what folks who like this idea like about it. Let's do that.

COHEN: OK. Sounds good.

HARRIS: Is that an approach?

COHEN: Sounds good.

HARRIS: All right, Elizabeth. Appreciate it. Thank you.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there. I'm Josh Levs.

What the White House got wrong about jobs and how many have been created by the stimulus. We're going to show you.

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HARRIS: You know, after the extraordinary collapse of Lehman Brothers last fall, the government began doling out hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars to save several big banks, and public outrage ensued. Now we're learning that many of those banks are paying us back. Are we making any money on the deal?

Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange with details. Good to see you, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, Tony. Ten banks have been approved to repay $68 billion. The U.S. treasury is not naming names, but the banks themselves are quick to tap themselves as healthy. They want to get out from underneath the government's thumb and some of the restrictions that come with it, like say restrictions on pay.

Banks that we confirmed include JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, U.S. Bancorp, Capital One, there's a whole bunch of them. All ten banks also paid -- to your question, Tony -- the government nearly $2 billion in dividends over the past seven months. Previously, 20 other banks repaid TARP, but they are mostly small, regional banks. Now we're talking about the big guys -- Tony.

HARRIS: Yes, yes. Susan, you know, we're also monitoring a congressional hearing on TARP today. Are you hearing anything of interest coming out of it?

LISOVICZ: Well, yes. I would have to say the thing that is of most interest, Tony, is that the congressional oversight panel wants a stress test do-over. Why is that? Because we talked about this a whole bunch of times that stress test included these scenarios of how these banks would fare if the economy got a whole lot worse.

So, for instance, the unemployment report shows that the stress tests are not stressful enough because the unemployment rate, now at 9.4 percent, is higher than the 8.9 percent envisioned. And what happens is, as the jobless rate goes up, well, funny thing happens with loans. People have a hard time paying them.

So, and the panel says also that the commercial real estate market is a ticking time bomb. And that's just another scenario that a lot of folks have been talking about as the next big chapter to implode. So, we'll keep monitoring that, but it would be interesting because, obviously, it was stressful enough just getting through the stress test.

So, there's a little bit of stress in the marketplace on Wall Street today. The Dow was able to overcome a 130-point deficit yesterday to gain one point at the close. Right now, we're seeing blue chips down 27 points. Nasdaq is up nine -- Tony.

HARRIS: All right, Susan, appreciate it. See you next hour. Thank you.

LISOVICZ: You've got it.

HARRIS: All right, let's turn now to a breaking development out of Kansas. The suspect charged with killing this man, Dr. George Tiller, an abortion provider, is talking to CNN, and we are the first TV network to have this. Ted Rowlands is live from Wichita. And Ted, first of all, tell us about the conversation.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, we just got out of the Sedgwick County correctional facility here in Wichita and had a half an hour conversation with Scott Roeder. We were given 30 minutes. We met in a room with a glass partition. We conversed over the telephone.

And at first, he was really reluctant to give us any details on his thought process or anything. He's saying that he had been misquoted over the weekend by the Associated Press. He was upset by that.

But then after a while, he started to open up. He wanted to know what the weather was like outside. He asked a couple questions about what, you know, we were doing here, et cetera, et cetera, and asked about Tiller's clinic. And when I told him there were no plans to open Tiller's clinic again, he sort of became a little bit more upbeat, and he said, good, good.

And then I started to question him, and he started to give us a little bit of insight. He said -- he never admitted to this crime. He never said that he actually shot Dr. Tiller, but I said, you know, the evidence against you seems to be overwhelming. What do you want people to know?

And he said, well, in the end, if I am found guilty, then the motive of this crime was to protect the unborn. He also said that the fact that Dr. Tiller's clinic is closed is a victory for the unborn children of the world that he is no longer slicing and dicing the unborn children in mothers' wombs and no more needles are going into baby's hearts.

He talked about the conditions inside the jail a little bit, said it was cold, didn't like being in solitary confinement. But he seemed to be an individual that understood what he is accused of, and while not admitting it, he also made mention that he's getting a lot of encouraging letters from people he doesn't know from people across the country, and he says that that has made him feel, quote, "good."

He does say that he plans to continue his conversations with the outside world, but at this point, he says his lawyer is advising him not to talk. He went against those recommendations by conducting the interview with us.

HARRIS: Well, Ted, that was -- you got him. That was my next question. Do we have any idea why he is choosing to talk in the manner and fashion that he is?

ROWLANDS: Well, you know, I asked him that, and he sort of would always come back to well, I actually don't know if I am going to talk or I don't want to talk, and then he would blurt out something. He seemed to be a man that was a bit confused, not confused at all, but tortured by the fact that he knows he shouldn't be talking, but he wants to talk.

Clearly, this was a guy that, if he did, indeed, commit this crime, which it seems as though the evidence is there, and prosecutors think he did, that he also wants to send a message as to why. And what I found very interesting is the fact that he is getting these letters from people, letters of encouragement, he said, that he is probably relishing in as he sits in jail.

HARRIS: I'm curious as to whether or not he in his comments puts himself anywhere near Dr. Tiller's church on May 31st.

ROWLANDS: He wouldn't admit to it. And that was, you know, sort of his big thing. But I, when I talked about the evidence against him, I said, listen, there were witnesses at this church that saw you shoot this man in the head and then point the gun at two other people.

And he acknowledged it by, you know, sort of nodding while he was on the phone and saying, yes, yes. But he was very careful not to admit it. And then he sort of was able to go around that by saying, if in the end I am found guilty, this is why I would possibly have done it, to defend the unborn. There you have it. Take what you want from that.

HARRIS: Do we have any idea of -- I would think a prosecutor would be very interested in your conversation. Was there a prosecutor on the call in the room with you in the vicinity?

ROWLANDS: No, in fact, which is very unique. This jail they do not record any phone calls, either outgoing phone calls or any inmate visits, which is, of course, a huge source of information for most jails where you have, you listen in and garner in a lot of information. Here it's their policy not to do that.

And he was well aware of that. We discussed that, in fact. And I think that may have helped him ease up a little bit on some level. But he was very concerned, specifically about federal charges. He said that his lawyer has told him that if he doesn't stop talking, he's going to work himself into federal charges, and he seemed to be very wary of that.

So, he was concerned, and as I say, at the beginning of the interview really didn't want to go into too much because he felt like he was burned by another report. But then after a while, it was as if, you know, he just, he really wanted to share his side of this in his mind of why this might have happened, if he, you know, indeed, as he put it, is found guilty in the end.

HARRIS: And Ted, you were in the room with him. I just want to ask it one more time. When you started to describe the reporting of witnesses in that church, I want you to go through that section of your conversation with him once again, what you said to him about what witnesses are saying happened and his response to that. Because I think just a moment ago, you indicated that he was nodding.

ROWLANDS: Yes. And it seemed as though -- the bottom line is, we were at a point in our conversation where we weren't going anywhere, and I said, listen, you know, I know you don't want to talk about this. But let's be frank here. There are witnesses at the church who have said publicly that they saw you do this. They got your license plate number. They saw your car. They saw you shoot this man and then point the gun at other people.

So, the evidence against you is overwhelming. What we don't know, and while I was discussing that, he was giving the nod of sort of acknowledgment, yes, yes. And he did acknowledge that he's read everything. He's read every article about this, and he, in fact, pointed out the things that he was upset by.

He said that he's not schizophrenic, which was reported in some of the press accounts, saying that he doesn't know where that came from and that he's not under medication, never has been and has never been schizophrenic, and he seemed upset by that. But the bottom line was, he did seem to acknowledge, yes, yes, yes, that is all out there. Whether, you know, you want to connect the dots and say he acknowledged that he was admitting the crime, you know, I don't know.

HARRIS: That puts you in, it seems to me, in the office with a prosecutor or certainly as a part of this process, this trial process moving forward. I'm sure you're aware of that, correct?

ROWLANDS: Well, possibly. But, you know what, I doubt as this process moves forward, given the overwhelmingly evidence, that they're going to need much of anything out of Mr. Roeder, if the evidence as it's been portrayed with the eyewitnesses. The fact that they found -- they had the car, et cetera, et cetera. But, obviously, yes, that's in play.

HARRIS: OK. Ted, appreciate it. We'll talk to you again at the top of the hour, I'm sure. Thanks, Ted. Ted Rowlands for us, having just concluded a conversation, a discussion with Scott Roeder in prison in Kansas. And more with Ted -- boy, just thought of a couple of other questions I should have asked -- in just a couple of minutes.

Chrysler and Fiat, we'll talk to Indiana State Treasurer Richard Mourdock on why the deal's on hold and what happens next.

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HARRIS: What can we learn from Scott Roeder's comments to our Ted Rowlands? Jami Floyd is a former attorney and the host of truTV's "Best Defense." Boy, Jami, it's good to see you.

JAMI FLOYD, HOST, TRUTV'S "BEST DEFENSE": Yes, you know...

HARRIS: First time I've had an opportunity to talk to you. It's good to have you on the program.

Did we just lose Jami? Oh, we just lost Jami? All right, we're going to work to -- OK, we're going to move forward, but we will -- Jami's back? Wow, what's happening here?

All right, we don't have Jami. We'll try to get her back in just a couple moments. I'm trying to pause and stall and see if we can get her back.

All right, we'll move forward. Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is fighting to keep his job. He is facing a serious challenge in the upcoming elections by a candidate questioning his, quote, "reckless leadership and view on the Holocaust." And as our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, reports, voters are hitting the streets to show their support.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With just days to go before Iran's presidential election, Tehran seems to be in the midst of a giant get-out-the-vote street party. Bidding a wishful farewell to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, supporters of the leading opposition candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, organized a human chain from the north of town all the way down to the south.

(on camera): In the last week, the election here has suddenly taken a much more energetic turn. Rallies for all the candidates, particularly the top two, are jamming the streets. Here up in the up in the affluent part of Tehran, young people, women wearing all manner of the head scarf that's required by law. And it will, in the end, be the turnout that makes the difference.

(voice-over): Women appear to be leading the charge. They say they want more freedom and equal rights, even those who don't feel safe enough to reveal their faces, just their hopes.

Police watch but don't intervene. This young man, like so many, says he's simply fed up with life in Iran today. "I can take it no more," his sign proclaims. "Go green for Mousavi." So green, some have leaves strapped to their bodies. They want jobs, better pay, more opportunities.

And when one of President Ahmadinejad's supporters strays into this opposition stronghold, the mood is raucous as the two camps try to drown each other out. Further downtown, the president's supporters are preparing a big rally in a mosque complex.

"I support Ahmadinejad," says this man, "because he built up the country. He's sincere, and he's not corrupt."

"Mr. Ahmadinejad is the best man, the most powerful man. He will definitely win," says this woman. "We believe in him."

Experts believe Iran will continue its nuclear program no matter who wins, and when it comes to relations with the U.S. and President Obama...

MOHAMMAD MARANDI, HEAD OF NORTH AMERICAN STUDIES, TEHRAN UNIVERSITY: I think that either of the two candidates, they would respond positively to the United States if they feel that the United States makes a significant move towards improving relations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: CNN senior international correspondent Christiane Amanpour live with us now from Tehran. And Christiane, given all the resources at president's disposal, it would seem the opposition would have no chance in this race, and yet, there does appear to be a race here. Am I correct in that assessment? And if that's the case, please tell me why.

AMANPOUR: Well, it is a race because mostly of these live television debates that have happened over the last week. Before that, it was quite sluggish. There was this sense that Ahmadinejad, the president, was the front-runner, and as you say, with the full backing of the state, the media, all the resources, would only be able to sort of top his opponents.

But then came the debate and the most unprecedented set of conversations between Ahmadinejad and his three rivals. Now, the most lively one was with his most prominent rival, Mousavi, in which they traded accusations. Mousavi called his economy a bust, called him a liar. Ahmadinejad said Mousavi's supporters were corrupt. It went on and on.

And now, we've had one former president come out and write an open letter calling Ahmadinejad almost anti-revolutionary, calling him, you know how he's destroyed the country internationally. This is President Rafsanjani, a former president who's very powerful. So, all of this has injected a huge amount of invective debate into this election.

And we've just come down from the streets where there's already people gathering. And the way it works here is that there are these text messages that go around, and supporters tell their various camps where to gather. And it's mostly standing on the sides of the road, each side facing off. And we've just been down to see it.

And it is very raucous, very loud, mostly peaceful. But right now, people are saying that Mousavi, his main opponent, is gaining ground and may even be surpassing him at this moment.

HARRIS: Well, Friday is shaping up to be an extraordinary day in Tehran. CNN senior international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour for us. Christiane, thank you.

More on our breaking news story, more information on the clinic of murdered doctor George Tiller.

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HARRIS: So, what can we learn from Scott Roeder's comments to our Ted Rowlands? Jami Floyd is a former attorney and the host of truTV's "Best Defense."

Well, Jami, good to have you on the program. I've got a couple of questions for you, and then add what you want to help us move this discussion forward.

If you're told by Ted Rowlands what the witnesses have told police, and actually what happened that day and the witnesses are telling you, hey, this is the guy, and here's his car tag number, first of all, I'm wondering, is there any chance that police have the wrong man here? I mean, I know there's always a small chance.

FLOYD: There's always a small chance. And, you know, we are the "Best Defense," so I tend to think in terms of defenses. And one of them is, look, you just got the wrong guy.

HARRIS: Yes.

FLOYD: But I think in this case, it's more likely going to be some sort of mental health issue, mental illness. Look, his public defender told him not to talk to us in the media, to Ted or to anyone else. And there's a reason for that: Anything he says can be used against him in court.

HARRIS: Well, Jami, great.

FLOYD: So, if he's talking, he must not care all that much about that. He must care more about the message.

HARRIS: Well yes, the -- wow, expand on that, because I hear you loud and clear. What do you think is going on? And I know you're not representing him, so you haven't had an opportunity to speak with him. But based on what he's doing, talking to the Associated Press, talking to our Ted Rowlands, what is going on here?

FLOYD: Well, it's quite extraordinary that Ted and others have gotten any access at all to someone who's behind bars. That's rather unusual if you're not the defense attorney, but they have. And it does seem to me that he's intending to send a message. You know, when it comes to -- and I've covered these kind of cases before.

When it comes to the killing of abortion providers and the targeting of the centers at which they work, it's much bigger than individual guilt or innocence. These people become martyrs. They become heroes. It's already happening online if you go to the Army of God Web site or if you just check out the blogosphere. He even told Ted he's got a lot of support out there, and that may matter a whole lot more to him than his freedom.

HARRIS: Boy, you -- all right, and let's be clear. No defense attorney would ever say to a client, go ahead and do this. Let's just be clear about this.

FLOYD: Would never, never, never. You never want your client to talk to the police, to the media or to anyone else except to you, and that's confidential.

HARRIS: Yes, and not that I'm that concerned about this aspect of the story, but it is a small aspect of the story. Ted Rowlands now, by virtue of this interview, opens himself up to being questioned by prosecutors for every minute detail of this conversation, correct?

FLOYD: That's right. Or subpoenaed as a witness and any notes taken. And there's no confidentiality whatsoever. This was in a public facility, a jail facility. So, certainly, that's happened before, and it could happen here.

HARRIS: OK. Jami Floyd from truTV. Jami, as always, it's always great to see you, great to have you on the program.

FLOYD: Pleasure.

HARRIS: We're going to make this a regular occurrence here.

FLOYD: Happy to.

HARRIS: Thanks, Jami.

And this just in to CNN. We are hearing about a building collapse in Raleigh, North Carolina. Do we have pictures? OK, wow, here we go.

Our CNN affiliates are reporting that there are some people potentially trapped, who may be trapped in that building right now. Can't tell from this shot how many floors may have pancaked onto the bottom of the building. We do know that the building is a former food factory of some sort.

But just take a look at these pictures once again. This is Raleigh, North Carolina. We're talking about a building collapse. And the belief, at least now, is that there are -- that there may be people -- Garner, North Carolina, I'm told now, Garner, North Carolina, is the site of this building collapse.

And, boy, that's a pretty dramatic shot. I'm just starting to be able to make this out. You can see vehicles pancaked by this structure now. And we're told this is a former food factory of some sort in Garner, North Carolina. And, boy, I haven't seen a perspective on the building yet to know if fire officials, rescue operations are under way there. I would assume that they are or they will be shortly.

We will continue to follow developments and get some additional information for you on the other side of the break here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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