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Iranians Vote; Palin Takes on Letterman; Retired Couple Allegedly Spies for Cuba; American Student on Trial in Italy
Aired June 12, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): How will this historic Iranian election affect us?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They want to see their country respected in the world again.
SANCHEZ: Lebanon's worst anti-U.S., anti-Israel party is voted out. And it happened just after President Obama said this.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government.
SANCHEZ: Is it the president's shift in tone that's causing the Muslim world's shift in tone? And is that good?
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), ALASKA: I mean, statutory rape is what this is.
SANCHEZ: Sarah Palin talks to our Wolf Blitzer after going on "The Today Show," where she ripped David Letterman.
How soon before you can travel to Cuba? These two may have just set you back a bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could not have been more flabbergasted had I heard they arrested Santa Claus.
SANCHEZ: Are they communists? And why?
For completely unnecessary kicks and punches, these two cops are under arrest.
Taken apart by the European tabloids, can this American beauty avoid being railroaded in her sex and murder trial?
Your national conversation for Friday, June 12, 2009, begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness, there is a lot of stuff going on as we begin this newscast. Hello again, everybody. I am Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation. This is not a speech. And it is your turn to get involved. We have never seen anything like this before, not in Iran, a massive election turnout that might -- I'm going to say this again -- that might be a hint of a turning point from years of confrontations with Washington.
Let's do this. Dee (ph), do me a favor. Get that shot that Robert has got over there of some of the folks working this story for us in our international area, because there is news coming in just as we are beginning this newscast.
We are now getting media reports, media reports, that seem to indicate it is the reformer, Mousavi, who has won this election in Iran over Ahmadinejad.
Now, notice how I put that. That's because he say he won this election. He is saying that. CNN has not confirmed his words, nor have we in any way, shape, or form confirmed the results of this election.
But he, within the last 20 minutes, put out a statement saying that he had won and saying that he is going to be holding a news conference shortly, perhaps within minutes. We will have it right here as this happens.
So, we are obviously covering these developments very tenuously. Hours after polls were scheduled to close, voters are still, we're told, casting ballots. It may be over this hour. You will know when the polls close, because we are going to tell you.
Now, it's really this simple, this election. I am going to try and explain it to you as best I can, given all the research and all the information and all the conversations I have had with those folks that you have just been watching over there, our international bureau, who have been on the phone working it all day long.
Will Iranians reelect their confrontational guy, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the guy who questions the Holocaust, the guy who has said he wants Israel wiped off the face of the map, who came to this country and said that Iran doesn't have any homosexuals in the entire country and he can vouch for it, or is it going in a new direction? Is Iran going to go in a new direction?
Will Iranian voters elect the man that you saw just a little while ago? Let's see if we can put him up again, Dee. There he is, this guy. His name is Mir Hossein Mousavi. He is a product of the system. But this guy is a reformer, very much a reformer, as he's being described, within -- within the confines of the Iranian system, which is another thing that we're going to be talking about.
He is open to talks with the United States. And we have been getting some late-breaking word that he has called a news conference to announce something. And then there's those media reports saying that he says that he has won.
I have been Twittering with a lot of folks in Tehran today, trying to get information from them. They have told me that the vote seems to be going his way. But, again, caveat, important caveat -- and I'm going to say it every time I say this -- we here at CNN have not confirmed that the results are in, nor are the official results in, nor have we confirmed that he actually has made that statement.
By all indications -- and it is now being reported by several media that he has. Now, here is another question for you as we get into this coverage. Is Iran's massive turnout a potential response to Barack Obama? If it does turn out that this fellow Mousavi wins over Ahmadinejad, is it a response to President Obama's Cairo speech, where he admitted that the U.S. had made mistakes, something no president had done before, talking about taking a government out and putting in the shah?
He also blasted Ahmadinejad for his hateful comments, by the way, in that same speech and suggested that both countries should be less hard-lined.
The president couldn't resist talking about this today. In fact, look what he does. I want to show you now this is President Obama's reaction. Maybe he knew something here, what -- what he does when he hears a question that most of these guys, most of these former presidents and politicians would normally ignore. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thanks, guys. Have a great weekend.
QUESTION: Mr. President, how closely are you watching Iranians' elections? How critical is it to change?
OBAMA: We are excited to see what appears to be a robust debate taking plays in Iran.
And, obviously, after the speech that I made in Cairo, we tried to send a clear message that we think there is the possibility of change. And, ultimately, the election is for the Iranians to decide. But, just as has been true in Lebanon, what can be true in Iran as well is that you are seeing people looking at new possibilities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You get a feeling he liked that question? You see the way he did that little turnaround dance and then just kind of jogged back to: Wait. Yes. No, no, I do want to talk about that, actually.
And then he does.
What's going on here?
Our chief international correspondent is Christiane Amanpour. All day long, she has been there in Iran following this story. And I might add -- and this is important, because she and I had a talk about this in New York last week when we were up there together -- she was born in Iran. This is not just another international story for her. This is a story that is very close to home. So, this is not just another assignment. And she is there. And she filed a report for us just a little while ago. I want you to watch this. This will set the table for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Obviously, what has shaped up over the last week or so is that this really has been a contest that is pitting the president, Ahmadinejad, against his main rival, Mir Hossein Mousavi.
And there was, as you say, a historically high turnout today. Election officials have called it unprecedented in the last 30 years, since the revolution and the 10 elections that have been held since then, the 10 presidential elections.
What we saw at many of the mosques and schools that we visited today, whether it be uptown, in the center of town, or down in the less affluent, more religious, more traditional south of town, we did see a huge number of people voting for Mir Hossein Mousavi.
And we are told by many of the people who we have had calling in from provinces and different towns and places outside of Tehran that that seems to be a trend that is expanding around much of the country.
While they don't expect to have official results out tonight. Perhaps word might start trickling in of the trend of those votes from the election authorities, but perhaps we are unlikely to have official votes before tomorrow, official results before tomorrow.
People who told us they were voting for Mir Hossein Mousavi told us that that they were actually coming out in protest against four years of President Ahmadinejad's rule. Mostly, they say, they're protesting the increased stifling of freedoms, the mismanagement, they call, of the economy, the hire crisis, higher -- employment, despite the tripling of oil revenues.
They say they are also coming out to make a statement that they don't want to see their country isolated and held in contempt or ridicule, as it has been over the past four years. They cite the president's Holocaust denials, his belligerent posturing towards the world, and they say they want an end to that.
Now, those who have voted for President Ahmadinejad told us that they were actually glad that he -- quote -- "stood up" to the rest of the world and didn't kowtow. And they were pleased, they said, that he had launched a peaceful nuclear program, or that Iran had, under his four years of rule.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: By the way, that's Christiane Amanpour. We are going to be reaching out to her in just a little bit.
Certainly, if there's any kind of confirmation of what media reports seem to indicate, and that is Mousavi is saying to them -- Mousavi is telling the media that he has won this election, unconfirmed, by the way, by us here at CNN.
We are going to be reaching out to Christiane Amanpour. She's still there. If nothing else, we will be able to talk to her by phone.
Also, interestingly enough, there is a caveat to that story I told you about just a little while ago. Did you see how Obama, President Obama, seemed to perk up when he was asked a question about Iran?
Well, I just got an e-mail from Suzanne Malveaux, telling me, by the way, Rick, I asked the president that question.
I had a feeling you might.
And, just for the record, when one of our own gets the question that gets the attention, it's good to point that out -- Suzanne Malveaux being one of the best in our political coverage, by the way.
Let's continue this.
Joining me now from New York, Middle East expert Reza Aslan.
Reza, thanks so much for being with us.
You were born in Iran, right?
REZA ASLAN, AUTHOR, "HOW TO WIN A COSMIC WAR: GOD, GLOBALIZATION, AND THE END OF THE WAR ON TERROR": That's right, Rick.
SANCHEZ: What are you hearing? This guy Mousavi is telling the media, "I won this thing."
(LAUGHTER)
ASLAN: That is probably just smart politicking.
It's a little bit early. I think the polls probably show a fairly significant lead for Mousavi, but let's recognize that most of his supporters are in the big cities, in Isfahan, and in Mashhad, in and Tehran.
And those polls, those votes are going to be a lot of easier to count than Ahmadinejad's supporters, who are primarily in the villages. And Iran takes elections very seriously. They literally take ballot boxes from village to village to village to make sure that everybody gets a chance to vote. It is still a little bit early to call this one.
SANCHEZ: Should the president of the United States get credit if Ahmadinejad and his angry rhetoric are in fact defeated?
ASLAN: Well, OK, this is what he needs to get credit for, is knowing when to shut his mouth.
What is brilliant about Obama is that, in the two weeks in which this election has been going on, you have not heard a peep from him, no sort of statements of support for democracy in Iran, no reaching out to the Iranian people as they stand up for their rights, the stuff that you would hear from Bush all the time.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
ASLAN: Because Obama knows that the best thing to do is just stay out of it. Let them choose for themselves. Do not be an issue in this campaign. And so that's important.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You are saying the -- the firmer the language, the more apt we are to embolden Iranians' populists, their voters, even people who maybe are in the middle and aren't so sure which way to go.
That's an interesting point. I want to pick up on that in just a little bit, also reports that I have been getting from some of the folks I have been Twittering with there in Tehran that's -- that are telling me that the turnout is massive, like nothing that they have ever seen before in this country.
And I want to pick up part of that conversation with you, as well -- as well.
Reza, stay right there, OK?
I'm also going to tell you what I am going to do to cover this story for you. I am going to move over to our international desk. I'm going to grab a chair over there to work on establishing a connection with a voter who is inside Iran who, by the way, has told me she is going to vote for Ahmadinejad or already has voted for Ahmadinejad.
Why, right? Isn't that what you are thinking? Why? We are hoping this works. Cross your fingers, by the way.
And then this. You see this American beauty. She is being railroaded by a bully of a prosecutor in Italy who is charging her with murder. That's a bizarre story. We are going to bring it to you.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I want to update you now on a couple of this that we're following.
First of all, obviously, the big story we followed all week long. The Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington reopened its doors today, as information continues to come in about the alleged terrorist James Von Brunn and what his motive may have been.
Here's a clue. You ready? A note was found in his car. Part of it we had yesterday. Part of it we didn't.
I am going to read it to you. "You may want my weapons. This is how you will get them. The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media." That was a note found in von Brunn's, what was it, a Hyundai. Exactly.
Thanks, Johnny (ph). It was a Hyundai that was double-parked just outside that museum yesterday. von Brunn, by the way, still in critical condition.
Three more bodies today. That's 44 in total that have been pulled from the water where an Air France flight went down two Mondays ago. We are going to show you a submarine here. Let's see if we can pick that Let's see if we see that. See that right there? That's that submarine.
That's the one that has finally arrived. It's searching for the plane's data recorder. Bodies and wreckage have turned up in such an enormous area that this could possibly support one belief that the plane broke up in flight with 228 people on board.
In fact, it's looking an awful like that that's exactly what happened.
All right, when we come back, Iran and the Twitter generation electing a president. I am going over there to try something. In our 3:00, we tend to like to try different things. I'm going to try and use new technology to talk to someone live in Tehran, despite the fact that security in Tehran would usually not allow them to talk to us here.
This is tricky. It is sketchy. It is iffy. But we are going to make it work for you. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, we are back on the air, I do believe.
And I want to try and do something for you now. The first thing we ought to do is kind of set the scene for you. For those of you who are just now joining us and may have come home from work, there are media reports, media reports that say that Mousavi, the reformer, has beaten Ahmadinejad in Iran.
And that's what he says. It is certainly not official yet. In fact, some of the ballots apparently are still being counted. And, remember, also, some of the ballots that are being counted are the ones from the villages. So, that's the area, the small part of -- smaller towns in -- in Iran, where Ahmadinejad would usually do well.
So, that's -- that's important to note. Let me do something now. And it is something that's, again, very tricky because of the security in Iran. They would probably prefer that citizens of Iran do not talk to the Western media.
And, for that reason, it is very difficult to do like a phone call, for example. But we have tried to do -- bypass that somewhat. And we are using a different type of technology, through Gmail. And I am about to have a conversation with a voter who is inside Tehran right now.
Her name is Sharhzad. I'm not going to give you her last name. But she is -- she is good enough to join us now.
Sharhzad, are you there?
SHARHZAD, IRANIAN WRITER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Sharhzad?
SHARHZAD: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Did you hear the report put out indicating that Mousavi has won? Have you heard that?
SHARHZAD: They are not actually, officially, but I have some reports, official reports from other cities of Iran (INAUDIBLE) that Ahmadinejad is up now. The big cities, still nothing official came out.
SANCHEZ: What's the scene like there in Iran? I understand the turnout has been huge. Has it -- has it been that big?
SHARHZAD: No.
In presidential election, we didn't have a huge amount of people come and vote there. And I think it is -- because election was something new and it offered us all something new. And it was completely different from other elections we have had, you know?
SANCHEZ: Who are you voting for?
SHARHZAD: I voted for Ahmadinejad.
SANCHEZ: Why are you voting for Ahmadinejad?
SHARHZAD: Because I thought he did well. I didn't think he did -- did something wrong. And I think he is honest person. And against a huge remorse and huge advertisements in Iran, I really believe in him.
SANCHEZ: But he said that Israel should be wiped off the map. And he said other things, for example, like that the Holocaust doesn't exist.
Here in the United States, when we hear that, we would normally not want to support someone like that. Does that not matter to you?
SHARHZAD: Yes.
But I think something is here, and something here you don't pay attention to. It is like you said that you translate the sentence that Ahmadinejad said that Israel should be wiped from the map...
SANCHEZ: Yes?
SHARHZAD: (AUDIO GAP) said that -- Imam Khamenei said that Israel should be wiped out. And in the sentence, Farsi, doesn't have -- in Persian, I mean, doesn't have the same meaning in English. I mean, it is completely different in English. It is like -- it's not a physical attack toward Israel. (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you believe -- you believe that Ahmadinejad is, in fact, a better candidate and he is not perceived there by you or others the way he is perceived here in -- in the West?
I certainly understand that.
One final question, before we let you go, when do you think we will know who has won this? And if it is, in fact, a loss for Ahmadinejad, how will that affect U.S. relations with Iran?
SHARHZAD: I think Ahmadinejad mentioned several times in his talk in his -- in the debates they had on TV that he is really willing to have relation with the U.S., and in his terms, I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What if he loses? What -- what if he loses, if the other guy wins? Will things just proceed as usual, or will there be a softening between the United States and Iran?
SHARHZAD: You know that Iranian policies is so complicated.
Iran's policies are something stable. It is like American policies are something stable. Just in details, there may be -- might be some changes. But, in the basic, for example, in (INAUDIBLE) Israel, in not recognizing -- recognizing Israel as a country, it's Iran's policy, or in relations with America, United States, it's same. It's -- there will be no change.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: OK.
Sharhzad, Sharhzad, I want to thank you.
SHARHZAD: Yes?
SANCHEZ: I want to thank you for being courageous enough to join us and speak your perspective on things to our viewers here in the United States. Thank you very much. We appreciate your time.
SHARHZAD: Welcome.
SANCHEZ: All righty.
There you have it. We are going to bring you the very latest on the situation in -- in -- in Iran. I'm thinking about some of the things that she said. You almost wish sometimes that you could do an interview for a lot longer.
But, also, Sarah Palin's comments, her words, even more strident now in her real virulent attack on David Letterman. It's an -- it's an interview she did with Wolf Blitzer. We're going to bring that to you. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I want to be as clear as I possibly can about this, even though it is, by its very nature, somewhat confusing.
Here are two pieces of information that we are getting here at CNN. First of all, the Iranian news service is reporting that Ahmadinejad has won the election. Again, the Iranian news services are reporting that Ahmadinejad has won the election.
But we have just spoken to our own Christiane Amanpour, who is there on the ground in Tehran, and she has told us that she has just attended a news conference where Mousavi, the former, has told the media that, including our own Christiane Amanpour, I should ad, that, in fact, he has won the election.
So, we have really got two conflicting reports that are coming out of Iran right now. We are trying to put all of this together for you. We want you to stay exactly where you are. We are going to work the phone, see if we can get Christiane on.
And, as we move the information forward, you will be the first to know. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: I think that that's pretty perverted. But it goes beyond that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's the very latest from Sarah Palin. She is using some very strong language attacking David Letterman. We will have that, because she talked to Wolf Blitzer today.
And I want you to look at this couple, typical retired husband and wife living in suburban America, right? Did their passion for Cuban communism trump their loyalty to the United States? That story as well.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. As we continue to follow the very latest out of Iran, let's also bring you stories here at home.
George H.W. Bush, he's done it again. He commemorates his birthday in grand style. I mean, this guy's got some chops, doesn't he? I mean, think about it -- his age, for starters.
As you can see, his sons were there, too, including Jeb. And so is my Miami BFF. Did you guys know about me and Robin Meade? Did you guys know about that? No? You will. David Letterman made an in appropriate joke about Sarah Palin and her family, and then sort of apologized, and then asked Palin to come on his show. Not only are the Palins not willing to appear, they are taking every opportunity to eviscerate David Letterman at just about every turn.
First, this morning on "The Today Show" with Matt Lauer, and then a little later with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), ALASKA: PALIN: Yes, it's a weak, convenient excuse, now. And you know what? Regardless of which daughter it was, inappropriate.
I think it contributes to some low self-esteem of many of the young girls in the country. Very unfortunate. I'm so glad to see women standing up and saying, enough is enough. Talk about a 14-year-old being -- statutory rape is what this is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Statutory rape? Wow.
With each interview, she seems to be escalating her attacks on David Letterman. You have to hear what else she tells Wolf Blitzer, like an angry mom, and you will during "THE SITUATION ROOM," after this show.
Up next, that American couple who now appear to be communist spies living in the United States for 30 years. Did they really buy into communism? What would Joe McCarthy say?
And, of course, the latest on Iran. We're going to get our guests back. We're trying to hook up with Christiane Amanpour.
Obviously there's a lot of confusion about what's coming out of Iran right now. We are going to try and piece it together for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Wow. We're getting a lot of tweets coming in on a lot of the stuff that we're talking about. Let me take you through a couple of these, if we possibly can.
Let's go to the Twitter board, if we can, Robert.
There it goes. "You know, I could care less about what's going on in Iran. What I do care about is what Mousavi's stance toward Israel is."
The next one says, "Letterman told a joke in very poor taste and bad staff research, but what about you? Your rhetoric is part of the problem," says Joyce, talking about me.
"If Ahmadinejad claims victory, I can only think of one word: dishonest."
And then finally, "Leave David Letterman alone. It's a comedy show. Goodness."
All right. Let's leave it at that and talk about something else now as we continue to wait for word out of Iran.
For those of you that haven't heard, there appears to be two conflicting stories about who has won. The Iranian news agency seems to be indicating that Ahmadinejad has won, while Mousavi held a news conference moments ago and declared that he was the winner.
Our own Christiane Amanpour is there and has relayed that information to us. Obviously, if we are able to hook up with Christiane, we will put her on the air live and you will hear from her directly.
Meanwhile, they are an American couple, an elderly man and his wife, who could be any one of us, right? Or any one of our parents. Or maybe any one of our grandparents, depending on how old you are. Except these two are accused communist spies.
And do you know what it looks like? They are also true believers in communism. I mean, they dreamed of moving to Cuba. But guess what? It ain't going to happen now.
You know why? Because a judge heard arguments this week about how these two have been stealing our secrets and passing them off to our enemies for the last 30 years. That means no bail.
Both Kendall and Gwendolyn Myers have ties to the U.S. government. He worked for the State Department. She worked as a congressional aide.
Listen to a friend of theirs who shared a dock with them in Maryland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY MACDONALD, FRIEND OF KENDALL & GWENDOLYN MYERS: I could not have been more flabbergasted had I heard they arrested Santa Claus. It was just astounding to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. You see a news paper here? You see this newspaper? That's the official newspaper of Cuba, the "Gramma."
This is how the Cuban people learned about the suspected spies, in an essay that was written by Fidel Castro. In it, Castro says -- or denies that he met with the pair, but he doesn't deny that they spied for the U.S. during the interview.
I've got to tell you, being from Cuba, I am fascinated by these two people because it looks to me like they aren't just your run-of-the- mill, money-hungry spies like Hansen and others that we've talked about here on CNN in the past. These guys seemed to have bought into this crap. I mean, they really believed what they were doing was good. That certainly makes them -- look, I think it makes them very, very different from at least other folks of this ilk that we have talked about in the past.
Elena Mora probably can explain to us this as well as anyone. She's on the National Board of the U.S. Communist Party. And also joining us is Francisco Pepe Hernandez of the Cuban America National Foundation, whose group, as you probably know, has been opposing the Castro regime for decades now.
Elena, let me start with you. Can you make us understand what their mindset was?
ELENA MORA, NATIONAL BOARD OF U.S. COMMUNIST PARTY: Honestly, when you were showing the clips in the beginning and a friend of theirs said that his reaction was that he was flabbergasted, I couldn't possibly explain their mindset. I find it as strange as you do that a couple, any couple, would take that route, spy on our own country. So that I can't explain at all. It's strange.
SANCHEZ: Well, no, no, no, no. And I'm not asking you to. Trust me. And if you got that impression, I apologize.
MORA: No problem.
SANCHEZ: I'm certainly not saying that you or your organization would in any way advocate anything illegal or spying. But the idea that they were buying into this socialist, communist principle, they romanticize, like many Americans do, about Che and Fidel and everything that's going down there in Cuba.
Explain that to us.
MORA: Exactly.
Now -- OK. That I'd love to talk about.
SANCHEZ: All right.
MORA: And I was in Cuba recently and also a long time ago, 25 years ago. And I've got to say, there is a lot of things to admire about the Cuban revolution. A lot of things.
It's not perfect. There are many problems. But if you look at, for example, health care, which is a very big topic in our country, they have made some incredible gains in the area of health care to the point that not only do they provide for their own people, but they've trained tens of thousands of doctors who are providing health care in underserved communities all throughout Latin America.
We visited a medical school there, the Latin American Medical School, where there's actually some Americans, some people from our country, there. Students from 39 countries. So that's an area of accomplishment...
SANCHEZ: No, I understand. I understand.
MORA: ... you've got to admire.
SANCHEZ: Although you could also look at that and say he sends doctors to work for almost minimum wage in Venezuela, and in return he gets tons...
MORA: Oil.
SANCHEZ: ... and tons of oil. So it's a nice -- yes, is there an ulterior motive? Yes.
MORA: Ulterior? No. They talk about. They say this is our export, medical expertise.
SANCHEZ: OK.
Pepe, your turn.
FRANCISCO "PEPE" HERNANDEZ, PRESIDENT, CUBAN American NATIONAL FOUNDATION: Yes. Well, look, Rick, anybody will spy against your country for basically four reasons: you have been blackmailed, got in a romantic situation, you need money, or you have an ideology that it's against the values of your own country.
But behind all that, you must hate the country where you're born, where you live. And this is probably what happened to these people. These two guys -- individuals are persuaded (ph) with their own lives. They are suckers for the propaganda that we have just heard about Cuba. And then they go ahead and they...
SANCHEZ: Do you think Elena is that way? Seriously, do you think Elena is a sellout to her country because she is a member of the communist party?
HERNANDEZ: No, no, I don't think so.
MORA: Thank you.
HERNANDEZ: I think you can be a communist and actually you can be loyal to your country. But the problem is that, actually, you need to hate your life in the country.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: To do what they did? To do what the spies did, you mean?
HERNANDEZ: Right, in order to do what they did. In order to be traders to their country. And this is what they have done.
SANCHEZ: Elena?
MORA: Well, I'll tell you, you know what I think is a really important aspect of this problem? The idea that the United States and Cuba are enemies to the death, I mean, even that idea -- I hope that with our -- the new administration and attitude towards foreign relations, where we talk to our enemies, I think that Cold War mentality of...
SANCHEZ: But these two -- no, I agree with you.
MORA: That's going to change.
SANCHEZ: And I think a lot of Americans want this to change. In fact, Pepe even wants this to change.
MORA: Yes, I know he does.
SANCHEZ: The Cuban American National Foundation is now supporting overtures to Cuba.
MORA: I know they do. Right. Right.
SANCHEZ: As long as they're within the rules of democracy. Right, Pepe?
HERNANDEZ: Yes, that's right, Rick. But you know what happens? What happens is as long as Fidel Castro is alive, there is no possibility of the United States and Cuba to be friends.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MORA: I hope that's not true. I can't imagine that that's true.
(CROSSTALK)
MORA: How can that be? I mean, we are friends with Vietnam. We were at war with them. We have relationships. We don't have a blockade like we do of Cuba.
SANCHEZ: You know what we are going to do? We're going to start a new thing here on CNN where we leave conversations like this go because there is too much to talk about.
MORA: That's true.
SANCHEZ: We're out of time, but we're going to go on CNN.com in about a month here and we're going to pick this conversation up with you two, because there's a lot of people out there who would like to continue this. I know they would.
MORA: And if Americans could travel there, they could partake in the conversation.
SANCHEZ: There you go again trying to -- Elena, thanks so much for being with us. I appreciate it.
MORA: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Pepe, my thanks to you as well.
HERNANDEZ: Sure. OK.
MORA: Thank you. SANCHEZ: All right. When we come back, there is this bizarre case that's going on in Italy. It's a young American beauty who is being railroaded by a bully of a prosecutor for murder. Wait until you see this.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I wish we could tell you definitively we knew who had won the election in Iran, but we can't. And we understand that the election officials are having a news conference now. We are going to try to find out what is it, the point is that they are making. I don't speak Farsi, but we have plenty of people here who do. They're going to interpret this for us, translate it, and then we will tell you if there's an official winner in the Iranian election any moment now.
So stay with us. We'll be able to turn that around. I see the folks diligently working on this translation as we speak.
In the meantime, another big story that's affecting a lot of Americans. It has to do with a 21-year-old on trial for murder in another country. I'm talking about Amanda Knox seen there. This is her arrival in court today in central Italy.
She is charged with murdering her friend and a fellow student in 2007. But today it's important, because, for the first time, Amanda Knox took the stand in her own defense.
This American beauty seems to be getting railroaded, at least according to all independent sources who have watched this. Listen to a tiny bit of her testimony using an interpreter.
Go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA KNOX, CHARGED WITH MURDER IN ITALY: So I was there, and they told me that I was trying to protect someone. But I wasn't trying...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. That's just a little bit.
I mean, the story is kind of long and complicated, but the long and the short of it is a group of young people alleged to be taking drugs one night, which they admitted to, but had nothing to do with a friend of theirs, who she had known, who ended up with her throat slashed. The European tabloids, as they love to do, are going insane with this case and all the people in it, especially the American girl.
And get this -- this trial may now go on holiday for two months while she waits for a jury to come back in the fall and come up with some kind of decision. That, in and of itself, sounds crazy.
I want to bring in Lisa Bloom. She's a CNN legal analyst.
I read everything I could possibly get my hands on, on this case, and it looks to me like this prosecutor is a bit of a bully who has these crazy theories about satanic cults and is railroading this young gal.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think the prosecution's case is weak. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say she's being railroaded.
What the prosecution has -- and this is the basis for murder cases here in the U.S. as well, in many cases -- is her conflicting story that she gave to the police -- "I wasn't involved. I wasn't even there. OK, I was there. Somebody else did it."
She falsely accused somebody else.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's because she was high.
BLOOM: Sorry?
SANCHEZ: She was high.
BLOOM: Well, I don't know if she was high at the time...
SANCHEZ: She said she was high.
BLOOM: ... that she was talking to the police. She said that she smoked marijuana or hash, depending on which version, the night that her roommate was killed. But by the time she was talking to the police, I don't know if she was still high.
Now, she says these were all false confessions because she was really browbeaten by the police. And today, in her testimony, she has said under oath that the police hit her. And she demonstrated. They hit her in the back of her head, she said, and that would be a reason to give a false confession.
SANCHEZ: But doesn't this prosecutor have a history of getting false confessions by working people over to make sure that they do just that?
BLOOM: Well, that's what's alleged by the defense. And look, what I think the defense has going for it is the prosecution's theory is ridiculous.
I mean, the idea that she would engage in some bizarre sex game, culminating in her knifing her roommate to death, a woman with whom she had a good relationship, by all accounts -- Amanda Knox has no history of any kind of sadistic sexual behavior, no history of any violence, no history of any crimes. So that in and of itself is odd. We don't see 21-year-old or 20-year-old young women normally sexually assaulting and murdering their female roommates.
SANCHEZ: And if she had done it and she had been high at the time, she probably would have left, as you know, a ton of physical evidence, of which there is very little, if any at all. BLOOM: Well, that's true. And the prosecution does have some DNA from Amanda Knox on the handle of the knife, and on the blade of the knife is the victim's DNA. So, their theory is that the two men held the victim down and Amanda Knox was the one who knifed her.
SANCHEZ: I'll tell you, it just doesn't look right. And, you know, obviously we've got to let the process be what it is, even though it's not our process, a process that, by the way, seems a little strange, the fact that...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, and I agree with you. How about the two-month vacation? I mean, the Europeans -- look, they love their vacations, and I take my hat off to them for that, but they're going to take two months off after everybody rests? Then the jury will come back and then they'll start deliberating?
SANCHEZ: Yes, it's crazy. It's crazy. It's like, here's the decision, all the information, now take two months off, come back later, and we'll think about maybe what your decision is.
BLOOM: Well, vacations are sacrosanct to Europeans.
SANCHEZ: Nice.
BLOOM: And by the way, it's a majority vote as to guilt or innocence, not unanimity. Two judges, six jurors, unanimous not necessary, just the majority.
SANCHEZ: Got it.
Bloom, good to see you. Again, enjoyed the conversation.
Former President George Bush Sr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN MEADE, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: What's with your penchant for jumping still?
GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, two reasons. One, it still feels good. I still get a charge out of it. It's not easy to do at 85.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I've got to tell you, I mean, you got to have chops. Right?
I mean, former president George Bush still getting a charge out of skydiving. And our own -- my own Miami BFF Robin Meade actually jumped with him.
She's in Kennebunkport. She's going to join me in just a little bit. Robin Meade and Rick Sanchez together again.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We've got breaking news. We've got a development out of Iran. But let me set the scene for you before we go to our correspondent, the best in the business, Christiane Amanpour.
There are two conflicting reports, one of them coming from one of the candidates, Mousavi, saying that he has won the election. There's another one from the Iranian news agency which seems to indicate quite the opposite, that perhaps Ahmadinejad may have won.
Christiane Amanpour is now live in Tehran. She joins us at this very moment to bring us the very latest.
Christiane, you have the mike.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, after an unprecedented high turnout in which everybody here, analysts and others, predicted that a high turnout would favor the challenger, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, there are now competing claims by both Mousavi and Ahmadinejad about who has won.
In the last few minutes, the election authorities have held a press conference, and they say that of the first five million or so votes cast, Ahmadinejad has won some 69.69 percent of that vote, with Mr. Mousavi winning some 28.48 percent of that vote. They say that that's somewhere between 19 percent and 20 percent of the vote that's already being counted.
So, in the meantime, just before that press conference, Mr. Mousavi held a press conference at his headquarters in which we went to, and he says that according to his polls and according to his campaign workers and supporters who have been at polls in much of the country, that they have "definitely won the election." He also said that the election authorities had not kept their promise to allow the election polling stations to remain open as long as people were still outside. He said the doors were closed with people still outside waiting to vote.
So, that's the latest from here in Iran -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: So it remains conflicting information.
Christiane Amanpour, our senior international correspondent.
Thank you so much for that report.
We're going to obviously keep tabs on this. If there's any change at all, we'll bring it to you right away. It might be a stalemate for quite some time, though.
Let's do this -- let's change gears now. Let's go right to this story. This is one of my favorite stories throughout the day.
A Bush and a Robin fell out of the sky today in Maine. You don't believe me? Take a look at this.
See? There it is. I told you so.
George H.W. Bush, the 41st president of the United States, he leaped out of a perfectly good airplane today. He now is doing this as a traditional birthday thing, the skydive.
Plenty of Bushes on the ground waiting for him -- all of his sons, the former president, the former governor of Florida. His son Neil was there, as well, his wife, Barbara.
OK. That's the Bush part.
Now watch the Robin part, the president's skydiving partner. She joins us as well, my old buddy from Miami days.
What a wonderful relationship you and I used to have. Too bad that had to end. We both got married.
MEADE: Oh. Well, we're still colleagues.
SANCHEZ: Robin! Listen, what are you doing? What are you doing jumping out of an airplane with the former president? And tell us how it went.
MEADE: I would have never done this. This is what I joke about. I would never do this in real life.
But the Golden Knights, the Army's Golden Knights, they're the premier parachute team. They've been asking me for years to jump with them and I kept saying no, but come up with something where I can't say no. Well, they came up with something where I couldn't say no -- a former president, and we're jumping tandem with the Golden Knights, and this is to celebrate his 85th birthday.
That's how it all came about. And I tell you, Mr. Bush was cool as a cumber. This was his seventh jump. It was my first.
You know, the first time he jumped it was not something that he wanted to do. He had to jump out of his World War II plane when it came under fire. So he said ever since then, he wanted to jump kind of to rectify the situation, so it was his own decision to do that. So, he's done it on big occasions since then, and that was number seven at 85.
And you know what? I think you guys have -- do you have the lipstick cam, what we call the lipstick cam from the sky?
SANCHEZ: Yes. We're looking at it now.
MEADE: This is the first time that we're seeing this.
SANCHEZ: Oh, it is? Really?
MEADE: This is the first time that we're seeing this.
SANCHEZ: What is this? Describe it to us.
MEADE: Well, the wind is hitting his face. I believe you're looking at Mr. Bush and his tandem partner falling from the plane. And the wind is hitting their face at 120 miles per hour. Think about that.
You start out at 13,500 feet. You're dropping down in 60 seconds to 5,500 feet, that fast of a drop. And then the canopy, the parachute, opens and then you really get to enjoy the view.
SANCHEZ: Yes. I'm getting that feeling you get -- like when you're there and you're falling and your stomach starts -- I was getting that feeling just watching that video.
You probably had a chance to talk to his family. I know the former president has a crush on you because I saw him trying to sneak a kiss.
(LAUGHTER)
MEADE: He did kiss me on the cheek at the end.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I saw that. I saw that.
Did you talk to his sons? I know Neil was there, George W. Bush was there.
MEADE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: There's big Jeb. I don't know where he got that big gene, the tallest guy in the family. And you talked to Barbara, as well.
What are they saying? Are they trying to convince him to not do this?
MEADE: Well, I'll tell you what, I'll show you the piece of tape first. I think we have that tape ready to go.
This is when he first got down. He went to the family first and then called me over. So here's that conversation.
I think you guys have that tape.
SANCHEZ: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEADE: Well, Mr. Bush, what do you think?
BUSH: I liked it. I liked it. Glad to be doing it again.
MEADE: Wow.
BUSH: How about you?
MEADE: Well, that was something else.
Mrs. Bush, this is my first time jumping. What do you have to say about him? BARBARA BUSH, FMR. FIRST LADY: Well, I thought he was great, he's an old hand. But you came in like a lady.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Oh, we didn't get the kiss! You know, that's my producer's fault.
You know what? Wolf Blitzer will show it. He's next.
Thanks, Robin.
