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Ahmadinejad Defends His Win; Iranian Presidential Election Sparks Global Protest; U.S. Watching Iran Closely; Iran and the Digital Age
Aired June 14, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Don Lemon at CNN global headquarters in Atlanta.
Iran is at the center of a global controversy. And uproar over who actually won its presidential election -- incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or his opponent Mir Hossein Mousavi. He hasn't been seen in public since Friday. And President Ahmadinejad is not guaranteeing his safety.
In the meantime, demonstrators filled Tehran's streets and militias on motorcycles raced through the crowds, swinging clubs and forcing people to scatter. Supporters of Mousavi accused the government of rigging the election, especially after Mousavi appeared to be leading the vote count. A letter posted on Mousavi's Web site demands the election results be annulled.
Right now, that doesn't seem likely, and President Ahmadinejad held a massive victory rally in Tehran today and offered his supporters a glimpse of what the next four years might be like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRAN (through translator): Show me who dares to threaten Iran in the world. And if God willing this year, if we go to the United Nations headquarters this year, I will address those powers and I will tell them which one of you dares threaten Iran, please raise your hand so that the people cut your hand off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, the U.S. response so far has been muted by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She did meet with her Canadian counterpart today at Niagara Falls. The Canadian foreign minister said Canada is deeply concerned by reports of voting irregularities in the Iranian election.
The Iran election is a complicated story with many moving parts and far-reaching geopolitical consequences. CNN's global resources and correspondents are focused on every single aspect of the story to bring you the most current and important information about it, from Tehran to Washington to reaction in major cities around the world. We'll have it all covered for you this evening on CNN, two hours here tonight. Mousavi supporters are raising their voices. Ahmadinejad supporters are raising theirs. And now Ahmadinejad is finally talking, defending his win. CNN international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is in Tehran tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sunday, the streets of Tehran belonged to the supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Hundreds of thousands of them filled one of the capital city's main squares and surged into the surrounding streets for a rally that was organized to celebrate Friday's elections and the results that gave him a controversial landslide victory.
Overhead, helicopter footage told the story and the president told the flag-waving crowd they should be proud of their historic voter turnout and of the results.
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): Today, we should appreciate -- we should appreciate the great triumph of the people of Iran against the united front of all the world arrogance.
AMANPOUR: Just hours earlier at a press conference, he defiantly addressed the street protests and widespread complaints of fraud and cheating.
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): Our people's response is quite clear, and the 40 million people who participated in the elections are present right now. Close to 25 million people who cast their votes in my favor are also present right now.
AMANPOUR: Referring to the country's nuclear program, a combative president said no foreign power would, quote, "even dare think of bombing Iran's nuclear sites." And he warned other governments that he's watching their reaction to his re-election.
Despite the huge crowds out for him this day...
(CROWD CHANTING)
AMANPOUR: ... angry supporters of the defeated Mir Hossein Mousavi were out again, too, in much smaller numbers, nonetheless, full of grievance.
At Tehran University, students waved fists and two fingers to the locked iron gates and they yelled "cheats!"
(on camera): Despite the police presence on the streets and in some areas, the running battles that they're having with the protesters, people are still allowed to be on the street. They continue to gather. There is no indication that there will be any curfew or any more stringent punishment.
(voice-over): Hundreds of regular and riot police are out, but for the most part they maintain wary vigilance, charging protesters when they venture too close. But it's the nonuniformed revolutionary vigilantes on foot and in waves of motorbike advances who are causing most of the injuries.
This young man shows us his baton bruises. Another weeps in fear after escaping a beating through an open door. The streets remain jammed with traffic, honking their protests. Others wave and join in from the side.
This woman had a message for President Obama. "I just want him to know that this was not a vote for Ahmadinejad," she says.
Despite saying he was now president of all Iranians, whether or not they voted for him, when asked, Ahmadinejad failed to guarantee Mousavi's safety. Later, police issued a statement saying they had not arrested him, and a letter on Mousavi's Web site says that he's asking the authorities to nullify the election results, while also calling on his supporters to refrain from any violence.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, we want some analysis now on all of this for what is happening in Iran. We go now to Karim Sadjadpour. He's been helping us out here on CNN. He's an associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a leading expert on Iran. He joins us live from Washington.
So thank you again for joining us. We've heard a lot from the opposition today and yesterday, but there are people in Iran who do support President Ahmadinejad -- Karim?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, ASSOCIATE, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: That's right, Don. I don't want to paint a black-and-white picture. President Ahmadinejad certainly has many supporters, but Mousavi, the opposition candidate, certainly has many supporters as well.
And what I would tell you, Don, is that I covered Ahmadinejad's election very carefully in 2005. And he was elected on a very clear platform, which was to put the oil money on people's dinner tables, as he said. He was an economic populist. And that was his clear mandate again when he was elected. And over the last four years, Iran is probably the only major oil producer in the world whose population claims that their economic circumstances have gotten worse despite the fact that oil was at one point $150 a barrel.
So I have no reason to believe that President Ahmadinejad's support would have increased the last four years despite this tremendous mismanagement of the economy.
LEMON: And Karim, we're hearing reports tonight and yesterday saying that, you know what, if the Supreme Leader has signed off on this and he is saying that he's going to support this, then it's a done deal unless the international community steps in and something else happens. But there's a history between Mousavi and the Supreme Leader, correct?
SADJADPOUR: It's a great point, Don. Mousavi was prime minister during the '80s when Ayatollah Khamenei was then president. And if fact, he was probably a more powerful prime minister. He's probably more powerful within the confines of the Islamic Republic's power structure than Khamenei was when he was president. And they're in fact related, Khamenei and Mousavi. They're distant relatives.
And I think Khamenei didn't want to have a strong president. He recognized that someone like Mousavi would be a strong president, would have opposing views, and it would be more problematic for him.
So most of the people I talked to in Tehran, Don, believe this was a fraudulent election. It was a power grab by Ayatollah Khamenei and was also in part orchestrated by his son.
LEMON: Karim, it's very interesting, the amount of attention that's being paid to this. There is -- this has touched a nerve. And some say that this is a starting point for change in Iran even though -- even if the results stay as they are now.
SADJADPOUR: I think that's right, Don. Even if these results are allowed to stand, a red line has been crossed in a way. I think that Ayatollah Khamenei has lost a lot of legitimacy. He's lost a lot of credibility in the eyes of people.
And for the last 20 years, Don, since he's been Supreme Leader, he's had a great setup because essentially he's had power without accountability. Because the president of Iran has such a high profile both domestically and internationally, most people put the blame, whether it's economic malaise or political isolation, they put the blame on the president.
If you do a Google search of Ayatollah Khamenei and you do a Google search of Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad has 10 times as many hits. Now I think it's becoming very clear to people that Khamenei has the power in Iran, and with power comes accountability. And I think he's really crossed a red line in the eyes of many people.
LEMON: All right. Karim Sadjadpour, he's an associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a leading expert on Iran. We appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much.
SADJADPOUR: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: We're going to have continuing coverage of the fallout in Iran over the presidential election -- the disputed presidential election.
Also, we have heard from critics of the Iranian presidential vote. But straight ahead, we'll hear from a supporter of President Ahmadinejad. A supporter of the president, tonight.
And you're twittering like crazy about the Iran election fallout. We have heard a lot from you. Our inboxes are full here. Send us more. Be a part of our conversation tonight -- Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. We're back seconds away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Back now to our special coverage of the disputed Iranian presidential election. The opposition is up in arms, but there are plenty of people cheering the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Joining me now is Kaveh Afrasiabi. He is a former political science professor at Tehran University and an author of several books on Iranian foreign policy. He was also adviser to Iran's nuclear negotiation team from 2004 to 2005.
Thank you very much for joining us this evening, sir. Do you agree with all the talk about the presidential elections being rigged in Iran?
KAVEH AFRASIABI, IRANIAN POLITICAL SCIENTIST: Well, you know, there's a saying that the proof of the pudding is eating it. The burden of proof is on the shoulder of Mr. Mousavi and his allies to prove with substantial documents, and they have, you know, tons of independent observers at all the voting centers to document these alleged violations, to submit to the Election Commission as the law requires. Unfortunately, three days later, Mr. Mousavi has not done that yet and one wonders why because...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Can I...
AFRASIABI: You cannot ask for reelection based on unfounded allegations, can you?
LEMON: Let me ask you this, and some are asking why, yes. But, you know, he had the option to file a complaint, but there are rumors that he is under house arrest, that there are restrictions on cell phones, there are restrictions on Internet.
Did he really have the option to do that at this point?
AFRASIABI: Well, according to his latest communique, he went to the Interior Ministry today and he also submitted a complaint to the Council of Guardians asking for basically new elections. So, he's had freedom of movement and he's had plenty of time to put together a dossier citing the specific violations. And as I've said, there were some 3,000 independent monitors by the four candidates in addition to two sets of official monitors overseeing the election.
So, Mr. Mousavi has the burden and he has not carried that burden. And add to that, the fact that he was so overconfident about being the clear winner one hour after the voting centers had closed, and the vote count hadn't even begun yet, that he pretty much psychologically boxed himself into this winner syndrome that he hasn't been able to get out of that. And we've seen some of the unfortunate results of that.
LEMON: There are people who say the president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, did not win by such a huge margin, that he did not get 62 percent, 63 percent of the vote. Do you believe that he did?
AFRASIABI: Well, look, since the start of the Islamic revolution 30 years ago, we've had allegations of, you know, voting irregularities at almost every election, including during the era of reformist former president Mr. Khatami. And I incidentally worked with Mr. Khatami on the program of dialogue among civilizations. And there's nothing new about that.
However, we've never had this kind of blanket rejection of the entire process. And that reminds me of what Mr. Mousavi himself said back in 1986 when he expressed surprise that some people were calling the elections back then as rigged. And he said that, look, with so many monitors how is it possible to cheat? And the same question should come and haunt him today, you know, and...
LEMON: Mr. Afrasiabi, I want to get a couple of things in here to make sure that we, you know, we hear from you.
Do you support the president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?
AFRASIABI: On balance, I do, and I think that he has done a tremendous job in terms of strengthening Iran. Iran today is a regional powerhouse with considerable international influence. He has defended Iran's nuclear right, and he has also made conciliatory gestures towards the United States and has offered to enter into dialogue.
LEMON: What do you think of Mr. Mousavi?
(CROSSTALK)
AFRASIABI: So, overall, I think it is (INAUDIBLE). Well, Mr. Mousavi, you know, during the 21 years that the Iranian rulers were building Iran into the powerhouse that it is today, he was concentrating on his artistic skills. And overnight he was parachuted to the forefront of the reformist movement that he had no connection -- organic connection to whatsoever. And now he is doing serious harm to the reformist movement by his, you know, exaggerated claims and so forth without backing them with empirical evidence. So, Mr. Mousavi, you know...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Do you think that the results here will be contested?
AFRASIABI: Well, Mr. Mousavi and, to a lesser extent, Mr. Karroubi have contested them. But, as I said, you know, there are election laws that need to be followed. And the irregularity, the abnormality of Mr. Mousavi's actions consist of the fact that he did not follow those rules. He did not submit a formal complaint to the Interior Ministry, saying that in such and such places there was such, you know, abnormalities and irregularities. He should have done that. He did not follow the rules.
Mr. Mousavi -- let me add that, you know, he's an amateur when it comes to contested elections. He was never elected to those positions as prime minister. This is his first time running, and obviously he's an amateur at this...
LEMON: And sir...
AFRASIABI: ...because, you know, he boxed himself in this winner syndrome and ran with it, basically.
LEMON: I don't mean to cut you off, but I really want to get as many topics as possible here. When I said, do you think it will be contested, what I really meant is, do you think it will be overturned and should it be overturned?
AFRASIABI: Well, in the absence of viable evidence proving that -- proving Mr. Mousavi's blanket rejection and allegations, I highly doubt that. And so, you know, the burden is on Mr. Mousavi, and he has not proffered any substantial evidence.
LEMON: All right. Kaveh Afrasiabi, we really appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you so much.
AFRASIABI: My pleasure.
LEMON: All right. Our continuing special here. Until midnight Eastern Time, we're going to be on the air with live coverage with the fallout of the presidential election in Iran. And we want you to weigh in tonight. Join us on our platforms here -- CNN.com, also MySpace, Facebook, Twitter and all of our platforms. We really appreciate your responses.
Also from Berlin tonight, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PROTESTORS CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And then also protesters on the streets in Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PROTESTORS CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Around the globe, they take to the streets. And the White House reacts to the latest developments. Our special look at Iran's election fallout continues moments away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Back to our special coverage of the Iran election fallout. Across the globe, Iranians have taken to the streets to protest the contested victory of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
In Berlin, protesters gathered outside the Iranian Embassy chanting and holding signs in support of opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(PROTESTORS CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: About 200 Iranians lined the streets of London outside the Iranian Embassy waving banners and chanting, "Where is my vote?" Mousavi supporters don't believe the Iranian government's decision that Ahmadinejad won 62 percent of the vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to let the world know that this is not the result of our election. This is absolutely fake. They have been cheating and we won't stay calm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to our vote? We won our vote to back to the right man, who is Mr. Mousavi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: From Los Angeles to Washington, Iranian protesters took to the streets of U.S. cities.
In the nation's capital, about 40 people played instruments, waved flags and chanted, "Where is my vote?" Dozens of Iranian Americans marched in front of the federal court in Dallas waving flags and chanting, "Down with Dictators." And in Los Angeles, police estimate that between 800 and 1,000 Iranians turned out to protest the election results. They include supporters of opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi and those who want to complete regime change in Iran.
Iran's contested election and the subsequent protests have been closely monitored in Washington.
CNN White House correspondent Elaine Quijano has the very latest for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad celebrated what he called his reelection, Vice President Joe Biden made clear the Obama administration has doubts.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't have all the details. It sure looks like the way they're suppressing speech, the way they're suppressing crowds, the way in which people are being treated, that there's some real doubt about that.
QUIJANO: Despite reports of voting irregularities, Vice President Biden did not signal the administration would back away from efforts to engage the Iranian government, but he insisted the U.S. position on Iran's nuclear program will not change. BIDEN: Our interests are the same before the election as after the election, and that is we want them to cease and desist from seeking a nuclear weapon and having one in its possession, and secondly, to stop supporting terror.
QUIJANO: Analysts say if Ahmadinejad remains in power, the U.S. will have no choice but to deal with him.
SADJADPOUR: It's going to be very difficult for the Obama administration to say that, no, we want to speak to different interlocutors in Tehran given the influence which Iran has on major issues of critical importance to U.S. foreign policy from nuclear proliferation to Iraq and to Afghanistan.
QUIJANO: But the dispute over Ahmadinejad's reelection also ratchets up the pressure on the Obama White House to get tougher with Iran.
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: We need to take a half step back from this administration's olive-branch-and-apology approach to enemies and countries that have been hostile to the United States of America.
QUIJANO (on camera): Domestically, there's also pressure on the Obama administration to get tougher with the Iran. In a statement, Senator Joe Lieberman said the Iranian regime had made a mockery of democracy and he called on President Obama and lawmakers to express solidarity with the Iranian people.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Elaine.
So how will this impact the Obama administration? Joining us now is CNN political editor Mark Preston and April Ryan. She's a White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks.
Mark, I'll begin with you. Vice President Joe Biden came out today expressing skepticism over the Iranian election results.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Yes, Don. You know, I'm not too surprised by Vice President Biden's response. It was very measured. It was very careful. Right now, the White House wants to be very careful, so it doesn't look like they're meddling in this election. You know, they don't want to give the Iranian president a weapon to use to say that this is the United States trying to meddle in their country. You know, at the same time, though, he did come out and say that they had some concerns about the election.
LEMON: But Mark, do you think -- are you surprised that there wasn't a stronger reaction? Many are saying that the reaction from the administration should be stronger.
PRESTON: Yes, and again, I think it's very measured at this point, Don, you know, because the U.S. doesn't want to give this weapon to the Iranian president to say, look, the U.S. is trying to come in and tell us what to do with our elections. At the same time, they're on record of expressing doubt.
LEMON: OK. So, April, you have been talking to your sources, I hear, in the administration. What are you hearing about this issue tonight?
APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Well, Don, what I'm hearing, my sources are saying this is not about us. You know, after 30 years of a lack of diplomacy with Iran, you know, the White House is saying that, look, their issues of nuclear weapons as well as terrorism, they have to work out with Iran.
LEMON: OK. So this is sort of "they are" as the statement says, then April, waiting to see how this escalates or if it does escalate at all.
Let's talk about, again, are you hearing from your sources that the administration will be willing to work with Ahmadinejad?
RYAN: Yes, the administration is very willing to work. They're willing to meet with him very soon even, as soon as late June. There's a meeting set on the issue of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that meeting is set to happen, but it's still not known what representative or who the representative will be on the Iranian front.
LEMON: Well, Mark, you know, this story seems to be escalating by the minute here. No doubt the administration will be speaking out about this in the coming days. I would think so.
PRESTON: They will, Don. And I think you will hear a harder line tomorrow from the White House. But, look, this is an international issue. This is not just a U.S. issue, and President Obama has made it a point to try to shed this imperialistic image that the U.S. -- he's trying to build bridges back in the international community. He doesn't want to look like the U.S. is going in and really running an election in Iran.
LEMON: All right, Mark Preston. He's our political editor here at CNN. And April Ryan is a White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks. There's a lot more to talk about when it comes to foreign policy especially Guantanamo Bay. They will join us in our live two-hour coverage here to talk about that as well. We'll see you guys very shortly.
We're continuing to monitor the situation happening in Iran. We have every single detail for you as it unfolds here.
Also, you have been sending us tons of responses on Twitter and iReports, and they have been amazing. The social networks are exploding over the Iranian election results. A lot of this being done by young Iranians. We'll talk about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Iranians have been very passionate about their disputed presidential election. And some of the best sights and sounds have come from our iReporters.
This was one of the street scenes yesterday in Tehran when emotions were especially high. The crowd was chanting, "Ahmadinejad, shame on you, let go of the country." And for security reasons, we've agreed not to identify that iReporter.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was reelected with more than 62 percent of the vote, but the opposition claims the election was rigged.
You know, the Iranian government apparently is trying to tamp down reporting on the protests. He is detaining journalists and jamming signals, etcetera all along the way here.
So, alternative ways to get the information outside the republic are being utilized, and we attest to that. Our Twitter account received hundreds and hundreds of submissions. Fair to say thousands and thousands. Technology, though, specifically social networking sites, are playing a bigger role than ever in getting the story out of the country and the rest of the world.
We want to turn now to CNN senior Middle East affairs editor Octavia Nasser. She joins us live via Web cam with this technical angle.
Thank you very much. There's a bit of a delay. So viewers, I want to say, just bear with us on this.
We are really on some uncharted territory here when it comes to social networking and what's going on in Iran, right, Octavia?
OCTAVIA NASSER, CNN SENIOR EDITOR, MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS: Absolutely. Very uncharted territory, but Iranians seem to have found a voice through the Internet and especially, especially Twitter. They have found a way to stay online, Don.
As a matter of fact, now a new morning is starting in Iran and Iranians are already on Twitter. Some of them actually going to bed now because they're very tired, but others are joining in the conversation. They're talking about what's coming up. The biggest question now, what is Mousavi going to do?
Of course, he's contesting these elections, and there is talk that he might be seeking to talk with the highest authority in the land, the Ayatollah Khamenei, and they're saying that he is not going to back off.
LEMON: You know, listen, some people are saying -- people here who are saying this is, Octavia, this is a revolution among the people in Iran. We don't know if we can characterize it as that yet, but it certainly is a revolution online, a virtual revolution, especially among the young folk. NASSER: It is absolutely. Online, that is exactly what it is. As a matter of fact, you see people having conversations. You're seeing people having fights. People posting videos showing differences. There's a huge, huge divide inside Iran right now between the two camps, the Ahmadinejad side and Mousavi.
And just watching these demonstrations, watching the riots, the video that we're getting of it's mostly phone video. It's mostly video that is taken secretly and posted on YouTube and other social networking sites.
So, it shows you that Iranians are up to something. They are not accepting the status quo and they are not accepting the results as they were given to them, and they're asking for their votes to count, and they aren't getting a lot of support from overseas, I have to say.
If you go to Twitter, for example, you're going to see a whole community there sending them, Iranian supporting them, making sure their voices are heard, their videos are posted and distributed. And that support is something Iranians inside Iran are telling us they're counting on it. They want to see more of it. As a matter of fact, today, someone -- a student at the University of Tehran told our producer she wants to hear from President Obama.
So, these are -- this is a new generation of Iranians that are asking for their rights. They want their voices to be heard. They want to bring change to their country. But they're saying at some point they're going to need the international community to make that happen.
LEMON: Our CNN senior Middle East affairs editor, Octavia Nasser. She has been joining us all evening here on CNN and is also watching the social networking sites and paying close attention to this matter. Octavia is going to join us a little bit later on. Again, we're on the air until midnight Eastern Time. Two hours of live coverage about the fallout in Iran.
Here's what you guys were saying, speaking of social networking sites.
Tyiesha_m says, "Reports on Twitter of YouTube removing Iranian protest videos."
FarTaher says, "Breaking news from University of Tehran where hundreds of students are under attack by Basij forces."
Now again, these are from the social networking sites. Some of these -- that's a problem with the site, it is not corroborated, so you can't go on the air and report it. Again, these are just responses.
Tabstar17 says, "Ahmadinejad, you are alone. Arabs hate you and the rest of the Muslims are too weak to do anything when attacked by Israel."
Jeanneco says, "Hey, Don, I understand your coverage. Please show the plight of the students in dorm rooms. Tweets saying that they need help, shot at."
Again, uncorroborated reports. We'll check on it. This is what's going on across the social networking sites.
Dlayphoto says, "Wear green on Monday for freedom in Iran."
Make sure you log on to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. We'll get your responses on the air.
Well, that's how the social networking sites are covering this story, this fast-moving story. But what about the good, old-fashioned talk radio, where people drive in to work and they listen and they listen from their home, from their offices all day and yell at the radio and yell at these guys, I'm sure.
Warren Ballentine, Ben Ferguson in the house and we'll ask them what they're hearing as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Time to hear from you again. Here is what you guys are saying on the social networking sites.
Pebo1 says, "However it plays out, we shouldn't interfere. Remember, it happened to us with Bush and Gore and Bush and Kerry and we did nothing."
LorettaN says, "People are being beaten and killed in the streets."
AL_NYC says, "I know Iranians are protesting, too. Elections are probably rigged, but is it our business? Would we care if it were an ally?"
Irandokhtazabi says, "They are killing Iranians on the streets. Please report this. Obama should deny Ahmadinejad's presidency. Mousavi is president."
We want to know what's on your mind tonight. Make sure you log on to Twitter, Facebook, or MySpace, iReport.com. We are going to get them on.
OK. So, that's what they're saying on the social networking sites. Here's what they're saying on the radio.
Warren Ballentine is here. Ben Ferguson is here. Both of them have radio shows. They're syndicated in their own names.
Thank you so much for joining us. Warren is in Raleigh.
Ben, where are you tonight joining us from?
BEN FERGUSON, HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": Memphis.
LEMON: You're joining us from Memphis. OK. Warren, let's start with you. When you heard -- you know, I don't know if it's a comparable comparison, but the person there just on Twitter said, hey, we had our own election problems back in 2000. Should we really be interfering in their business? Is this good that the White House is saying, hey, let's see what happens before we actually make a stronger statement?
WARREN BALLENTINE, HOST, "THE WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": I think the White House shouldn't say anything. And the reason being is because of what happened in 2000 when Bush stole the election. Look, it's clear that he stole the election -- Ben, you're laughing, but let me argue it from a legal point of view.
As a lawyer, Don, the way procedure works in a case like this, it was supposed to be the Congress who decided who was president, not the Supreme Court...
LEMON: All right. But let's stick to Iran.
BALLENTINE: ... so legally, legally, it was stolen. And when you look at what's going on in Iran -- Ben, when you look at what's going on in Iran right now, who are we to judge Iran? I'm proud of the people of Iran for standing up and going to the street because that's what we should have been doing in 2000 and 2004. Unfortunately, our country, we don't have the fortitude to stand up when our government is doing wrong.
LEMON: OK. All right. Before I get to Ben, let me just say that, you know, according to procedure and according to electoral college...
FERGUSON: And according to the Supreme Court.
LEMON: ... the election was -- that's what I said, the court proceedings - the election was --
(CROSSTALK)
BALLENTINE: Neither one of you guys are lawyers. I'm an attorney, Don. I know the Supreme Court law.
LEMON: OK.
BALLENTINE: I know what's going on. Legally...
LEMON: All right, Warren, let's move on.
BALLENTINE: As legal scholar (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: We want to move on now. Ben, go ahead. How do you respond to that?
FERGUSON: Well, I mean, when you look at what's going on over there, obviously, this White House has become very famous very quickly for holding back and not taking the front move on this one. I think they want to see how it's going to play out over there.
I look at it and I see all the young people that are protesting right now over there, and I find it sad because some people are getting hurt, but also encouraging because you see that there are a lot of people in Iran, they're standing up for themselves and what they believe in. And they don't think they're votes were counted.
I mean, but to compare it to America is just -- it's sad and it discredits what they're going through over right now in the Middle East. What they're doing is totally different and not even close to what we've dealt with in America.
LEMON: And Ben, before I get back to Warren, I want to ask you this. Is this an issue though -- this an issue that Republicans and Democrats, conservatives, liberals, maybe can agree upon when it comes to Iran and the way and the handling of it?
FERGUSON: Well, I would have thought so until I heard him talk a minute ago. I thought most people would be on the same page, that we should back them and make sure that they have fair and free elections and certainly help them stand up and not be persecuted that they're wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But, you know, Warren is a free spirit, and he just goes where he wants to go, so --
FERGUSON: This is very true. We know that every week.
BALLENTINE: You know, I think this is very hypocritical on both of your parts because, honestly, how we as Americans going to tell somebody else what they need to be doing when we had the same situation here and we didn't stand up and say anything?
FERGUSON: Warren, I didn't tell them anything to do tonight. I just said --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm not suggesting that. I'm not suggesting that at all. I was simply stating -- hang on, I was simply stating a fact there when I talked about the election and the Supreme Court. And as an entity, I mean, you know, CNN cannot say that the election was stolen. However, you can say that. But --
(CROSSTALK)
BALLENTINE: White House shouldn't say anything at all, Don. White House just takes the stand today --
FERGUSON: It was in 2000. Let it go. It's never been around.
LEMON: Hang on, Ben. Let me talk -- let me let Warren get the last word in here because I want him to have this say as well. As I spoke to Ben, Warren, I'll pose the same question to you. Is this an issue that even -- maybe in a couple days or maybe even now that Republicans and Democrats can find some common ground upon on how to react to what's going on in Iran and what should be done?
BALLENTINE: I think they have to, Don, because of the simple fact of this. Outside of 2000, what good would it do for America to step into this right now? Because, honestly, if we step in right now, we may alienate Iran or Tehran to the point where we can never negotiate with them.
FERGUSON: Iran.
BALLENTINE: And if we do step in right now, we step in too early. We may end up hurting ourselves.
LEMON: Hey, Warren, real quickly, in the short time that we have left, I'll let you get in here. This will be a big topic tomorrow on your show I'm sure.
FERGUSON: Well, yes, but I mean, the main thing here I have to look at here is the fact of the matter is as Americans, I think that we understand something that everybody's vote should count. And if they're going to claim their democracy, if they're going to claim to have free and fair elections, then we should do everything in our power to make sure that comes to fruition and back them up on their rhetoric. That's the fact -- it doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat. It's right and wrong. That's what we believe in.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hey, guys, you know, I could sit here and talk to you and referee all night long. I'm glad you guys aren't in the same room because I think I might be breaking something up here. But we appreciate your -- let's call it, your spirit and your enthusiasm. Thank you both.
BALLENTINE: Thank you.
FERGUSON: All right. Thanks.
LEMON: Our continuing coverage of the fallout over the Iranian election of the president -- who exactly is president? Iranians are saying one person is, and some are saying another is. Is it the incumbent or is it the opposition? We'll find out in the days to come. But our continuing coverage will continue right after this.
Also an apparent about-face from Israel's prime minister. But with plenty of tough conditions. Will his two-state proposal be accepted?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have another developing story tonight to tell you about, this one out of Israel. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the first time openly considered a two-state solution to the Middle East conflict. But only under the condition that the Palestinians demilitarize.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER (through translator): If we receive a guarantee as to this demilitarized unit and if we have the appropriate guarantees, then we would be prepared to reach an agreement with regard to a demilitarized Palestinian state side by side with the Jewish state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, to the suggestion of demilitarization, Palestinians say no way. A chief Palestinian negotiator says Netanyahu has left them with nothing to negotiate.
A Palestinian lawmaker is accusing Netanyahu of trying to create a, quote, "ghetto state."
Our continuing coverage of the fallout over the Iranian election will continue here on CNN. Plus, your thoughts straight ahead on this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have the social networking sites playing a big, big role in this situation that's happening in Iran. And we want to read a couple of responses of what people are saying tonight from those sites.
Spooky_fox says, "Report more on the crisis at Tehran University. Dozens injured, arrested. Basij and police preventing students from going to hospital."
IronZombie says, "The Iranian people deserve the same freedom we have here in America. They should take back their country from their oppressors."
And LittlePinoy says, "If the whole election was rigged, what can the people of Iran do?"
Just go to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. That's how we thank you for being a part of our show. And thank you for watching by getting your responses out there. They're important to us.
Our coverage continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Now for our special series "Up From a Past: African- American First." I spoke with Bob Johnson. He's the founder and former CEO of Black Entertainment Television Network or B.E.T as it is popularly known. He is the first African-American to launch a major television network, something he says he knew he could do.
We also talked about his support of Hillary Clinton during the 2008 election, and whether his very public opinions about President Obama have changed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (on camera): What made you think, you know, at the start of all this -- you know, the cable, the advent of cable, CNN, all this, what made Bob Johnson think, like, "Hey, I can do this. I can start B.E.T."
BOB JOHNSON, FOUNDER, B.E.T.: It's probably a combination of -- I would call a little bit of pride and sort of -- I don't know what the other word is. It's a little bit of pride and a little bit of arrogance.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Arrogance.
JOHNSON: That's probably the two things. Is that you sit back. I mean, if you believe in yourself and if you think you're pretty smart and you think you're competitive and you can do things, and you get around people who have been known to be, quote, unquote, "the smartest people in the room." And the arrogance comes in, and you say, "These people aren't that smart."
LEMON: But it wasn't easy. Because, did you make a profit the first couple of years?
JOHNSON: No, no, no. We lost money for five years. And then once we turned a profit, it went straight up. But, no, I mean, it was not easy in the sense of getting cable operators to carry black programming at a time cable systems weren't in the big suburban cities. It's not easy to get advertisers to buy cable when they were all used to buying network television, didn't know what cable was. Was not used easy to get programs to appeal to the market, which (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: African-Americans had this affinity for B.E.T. because they were so proud of it. And then once it was sold, there was a criticism that it went to a place where it didn't -- they didn't think it should go. They were no longer proud of it. And you say to that?
JOHNSON: Oh, I disagree with that. I mean, B.E.T. is still as true to its core commitment to serve the viewing interests of African- Americans as ever been. It's probably better. I think Debra Lee, who worked with me for 17 years and is now the CEO of B.E.T., has put her own programming brand and stamp on the network. I think the network is a terrific business model. It is still the -- and will always be in my opinion -- the preeminent African-American media channel in the country.
LEMON: But I think, I think what you said to me previously was that people have to understand that B.E.T. is a business, and it's not -- it doesn't speak or set values or whatever for a community.
JOHNSON: I have always approach B.E.T. as a business. And I approach it as a business focused on recreating shareholder value. LEMON: And I think -- if I'm wrong, correct me. But I think your wealth building for African-Americans -- you think that that should be a very high priority.
JOHNSON: That's my highest priority is to demonstrate that African-Americans can attain and sustain wealth. That is fundamentally what I believe. If I had a calling, it would be to preach wealth attainment and wealth sustainment and not to be embarrassed or any way feel that you're not serving the broad black public interests by accumulating wealth.
LEMON: How do you feel about the last election, and the election of an African-American president?
JOHNSON: I think it was a monumental achievement for Senator Obama, President Obama as an elected official, as a politician, to demonstrate that he had the following and support of the United States to take on the highest office in the country and in probably the most powerful position in the world. That was a watershed moment.
LEMON: Is it bittersweet for you, though? I mean, you have a friend who you loved and you know for a long time who is also running, and then you had the first African-American president. Were you torn in a way?
JOHNSON: No, I don't think I was torn. I mean, it was -- I have known the Clintons for over 20 years. I knew Barack Obama about a year and a half, and it was just a matter of, you know, you support people who you know. You want them to win. You do everything to help them win. But when it's over, we're all Democrats.
LEMON: Did you really believe that you could achieve anything that you wanted? Did you ever think that you would achieve this level of success?
JOHNSON: Oh, yes, I always knew I could be successful. I knew I could be successful one of two ways. Either working for somebody because I was never afraid of work, never afraid of hard work, never afraid of making a commitment to work and the effort required to work, or I could eventually find something that I would do myself, and I put that same work ethic into it.
LEMON: What's the best thing about being you? What's the best thing about being Bob Johnson?
JOHNSON: You know, I think the best thing about me, being me is that I get to see a range of opportunities. You'd be surprised at the opportunities that come my way, because people want to do business with me or to be in a relationship with me in some way, and that's fascinating.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Our special series "Up From a Past: African-American First" continues next week. We'll introduce to you Cathy Hughes. She runs the largest African-American-owned radio broadcasting company in the country.
And, again, CNN will examine what it really means to be "Black in America." Make sure you watch stories of people stepping up, taking charge, and creating solutions. The documentary "Black in America 2" premieres July 22nd and 23rd only here on CNN.
We are continuing to monitor the developing fallout from Iran's presidential election. Next hour, my interview with an Iranian journalist in Tehran about what she's seeing and hearing and also fearing.
