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Post-Election Protest in Iran; Paying for the Medically Uninsured; Medical Costs & Geography; Doctors Want Health Care Reform to Include Malpractice Protection; McCain Reiterates Support for Health Care Tax Credit; Who Are the Iranian Protesters?; Compare Med Prices Online

Aired June 15, 2009 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. It is Monday, June 15th, and here are the top stories for you in the CNN NEWSROOM this morning.

Defeated, but he says he was cheated. Iranian TV says the losing presidential candidate turned up at a protest rally, his first public appearance since Friday's election.

President Obama arrives in Chicago this hour to press America's doctors on a health care overhaul. We begin a weeklong focus on the problem.

A president in freefall. Bush 41 celebrates 85 by leaping from an airplane. CNN is along for the dive.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Defiance in the streets of Tehran. Word this morning that Iran's defeated presidential candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is joining thousands of his supporters at a massive rally. That's despite a government decree banning the demonstration.

They are challenging the reelection of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The opposition insists the vote was rigged; Iran's Supreme Leader now promising the complaints will be investigated.

CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is at the demonstration in Iran. She spoke to us by phone just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via TELEPHONE: We've seen at the Freedom Square, which is the site of a Mousavi pre-election rally. We've seen thousands and thousands of people sort of marching very peacefully around the Square and gathering on the lawn in front of the big distinctive Square that they call Freedom Square here and many more in the streets as well surging towards.

We did not see Mousavi there, but other reports are saying that he did address the crowd from the top of a car. Remember we told you that we had seen a two-car convoy which people have thought that Mousavi was inside. He did address people from the top of the car using a loud hailer.

According to other reports, including Iran's Press TV and again, spoke out against the election results and said that the people's vote was what matters more than Mousavi or any other individual.

What we also have been reporting is from Iranian state television, which carried a statement from the supreme religious authority here, Ayatollah Khameini, who has said that if Mr. Mousavi had any concerns or complaints about the election process, then he should proceed through the legal channels to address those and that would be through the Guardian Council, which is the religious vetting body. That vets all the candidates and everything around this election.

And subsequently we also heard on the Iranian television that the Guardian Council said they would investigate and that results would be out within ten days or so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: All right. Our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is on the phone with us from Tehran. And Christiane, before we get to the question of whether Mr. Mousavi is or isn't at this rally, would you start by describing the size, the dimensions of the demonstration that you're witnessing right now?

AMANPOUR: Yes. And then try to explain why it's a bit difficult to determine when and at what point he addressed the people.

HARRIS: Sure.

AMANPOUR: Basically, it started with just people, group of gatherings, students quite close to Tehran University, people flooding in from the side streets. And really, it's sort of a huge momentum starting to build. And then they marched peacefully with no incidents, as far as we could tell, certainly as far as we saw. And the crowd just keeps getting bigger as the marches kept going on and as people kept joining from the sides. And there were lines of police and riot police who just bordered the march but didn't intervene.

It was very orderly, very peaceful. Not many slogans. They tried to be as quiet as possible mindful of the fact that earlier this morning the Interior Ministry had said that they would be issuing no permits or permissions for these marches.

Then about an hour or so after we were at the head of the rally, we saw two four-wheel drive vehicles, one of whom -- one of which had six or so security people hanging off it, and the second one had a camera with it as well.

And people on the side of the road started to shout "Mousavi," expecting and hoping that he was in that vehicle. And then this vehicle convoy marched, no -- sort of drove along with the marchers slowly, and by the time we got there, we got there at the Freedom Square, where the marchers were getting to.

And we saw thousands and thousands of people again in a very orderly way walking around this square and just chanting, you know, "We want our vote back" and "Mr. Ahmadinejad, show me the 63 percent."

And we have not ourselves seen Mousavi but Iran's Press Television and other organizations say that he was there, that he addressed people from the top of a vehicle. Others say that didn't actually go to the square but he was at a Mosque close to the square. That's the sum total of what we know.

HARRIS: And Christiane, just quickly before -- well, you weren't there so you weren't able to hear the message. But what's your understanding of what his message was likely to be to the demonstrators?

AMANPOUR: Well, we were told by his supporters and people who worked in this campaign earlier this morning that he wants to go out and call for calm and call his supporters not to engage in any violence. And some of his campaign workers said that he was going to ask them not to come out and protest because of this order from the Guardian, from the Interior Ministry.

Now, at the same time, as we've reported, state television has said that Ayatollah Khameini, the supreme religious leader here, the ultimate authority in Iran, has said that if Mr. Mousavi had any questions or complaints about the legitimacy of the election or the results, then he should take that through the legal channel and that would be to the Guardian Council.

And Mr. Mousavi, according to a letter that circulated on his Web site yesterday, had complained to the Guardian Council and asked them to annul the vote. Today, a message came from the Guardian Council again, we hear this through state television, that they would investigate, and that they might have results within about 10 days. But nobody knows what exactly that means or whether there's any chance of any change in the current status.

HARRIS: Got you. All right, CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour for us. Christiane, I appreciate it. Thank you.

A truly historic series of events led up to today's big demonstrations beginning Friday, when an unprecedented 85 percent of Iran's 46 million voters went to the polls to cast a ballot for president. The Interior Ministry announced Saturday that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won almost 63 percent of the vote.

Now that compares to about 34 percent for challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi; Mousavi quickly issued a Web statement calling the election results fraud. That set off nationwide demonstrations, Mousavi's supporters and baton-wielding police clashing in the streets throughout the weekend.

The country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khameini, has called the election results "divine assessment." He urged the country to unite behind President Ahmadinejad. Now the Ayatollah says officials will investigate allegations of valid fraud; the findings expected as you've heard from Christiane Amanpour, in about 10 days.

Now the Obama administration taking a wait and see approach to the election upheaval in Iran. Live now to CNN's Elaine Quijano in Washington and Elaine trying to follow the e-mail traffic over the weekend. What has been the administration's position?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Tony the White House officials are being very cautious in their public comments on Iran right now. They obviously do not want to be seen as interfering with the process.

But as we just saw with the Iranians themselves questioning the validity of the election results, the Obama administration is making clear the U.S. has doubts as well.

Here is Vice President Joe Biden on NBC's "Meet the Press."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't have all of the details. It sure looks like the way they are suppressing speech, the way they are suppressing crowds, the way in which people are being treated that there's some real doubt about that. I don't think we are in a position to say. It was surprising that the assertion was he won by what 60 some percent of the vote and so I think we have to wait and see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, the vice president did not signal that the administration plans to back away from outreach to Iran, but he also insisted that the U.S.'s position on Iran's nuclear program will not change.

He says the U.S.'s interest was the same before and after the election and of course the White House does not want Iran to develop a nuclear weapon -- Tony.

HARRIS: Absolutely. All right Elaine, I appreciate it.

And give me just a moment here. Do we have the pictures from Tehran Freedom Square? Or we just lost those pictures.

Elaine, we're just going to show everyone the pictures. We're told Mir Hossein Mousavi is actually -- we have pictures of him now.

There's been some question as to whether or not he actually made it to this demonstration. We understand that he has and that we'll be seeing those pictures in just a moment.

Are these live pictures? Let me just check with our control room. OK, these are not the live pictures but we do understand that we intermittently are getting a look at some pictures of the demonstration as it continues today. And word was just a moment ago that the opposition candidate was actually in the process of addressing his supporters.

We will continue to follow these pictures and when we get them up and we can see Mir Hossein Mousavi, we will take you back to those pictures.

All right and still to come in the NEWSROOM, if you're wondering why the price of health care is different from state to state, stay with us. We will break it down from one coast to the other.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: All right once again, these are pictures -- help me -- live pictures or from a short time ago? A short time ago, there he is, really the man of the hour right now; the opposition candidate who lost the election in Iran over the weekend.

It is obviously a disputed result, Mir Hossein Mousavi right now addressing, according to our chief international correspondent, Christian Amanpour thousands of supporters there at Freedom Square in Tehran.

This is a march that started with just a few hundred people as described by Christiane and quickly it turned into a demonstration of thousands of people from Revolution Square to Freedom Square. And once again the situation, as it stands right now is that the election results are being reviewed.

Mir Hossein Mousavi is challenging the results and we should get an updated official ruling on the results in another ten days. But take a look at these pictures from Freedom Square in Tehran. In many ways, unprecedented pictures right now. We will continue to follow developments in that story for you in the NEWSROOM.

President Obama tries to convince doctors that his health care reform plan is the right medicine. The president addresses the American Medical Association next hour. Live coverage, of course, for you right here in the NEWSROOM. The doctor's group, 250,000 strong, has concerns about plans for a government-run insurance plan to compete with private companies program.

We are focusing in on all aspects of health care all this week in the NEWSROOM.

Two issues at the core of the debate are high costs and the high number of uninsured Americans; and the two are directly related. Think about it. Who pays for all of the uninsured people? You'll know the answer.

Nicole Lapin is here to break it all down for us. Go to work, Nick, because we've been talking...

NICOLE LAPIN, CNN.COM LIVE: You know the answer?

HARRIS: Yes, sure. We all know the answer.

LAPIN: It's you. It's me. HARRIS: Yes. It's all of us.

LAPIN: It's both of us.

The first question, Tony, of course, is how many uninsured Americans are there, and the answer is 45 million Americans.

The next logical question is, while of course those people get sick, how much does it cost to treat them? We can answer that question by looking at how much of health care went unpaid last year. Tony, those are the people that are going to the emergency room to get treated and ultimately not paying, so that was 37 percent of health care costs or a total of $42.7 billion.

These numbers Tony, I should say, come from a study from a group called Families U.S.A. which is a group that does support expanded health care coverage.

But think about it, $42.7 billion. What does that mean for you and I? How much are we paying?

Every U.S. family pays about $1,000 a year to pay for the uninsured. Sure, we don't see it in our paycheck like Social Security, but it is there. It is there through health care premiums. It is there through paying for pills, doctor visits and your employer also foots the bill because if you're going through your employer, Tony, think about t. They are really subsidizing a lot of what you're paying.

So, presumably, if you're employer didn't have that cost, you would get more money in your paycheck and if you have private insurance, you're also paying extra, about $370 extra. We're talking about individuals there and not families.

And because of this hidden tax and that's what a lot of people are calling it, Tony, we are already paying -- we're not realizing it but it's there and we're already paying.

HARRIS: And that's just -- that just sort of frames the discussion for us a bit; who is paying those costs. We are paying those costs. Appreciate it Nicole. Thank you.

LAPIN: You're welcome.

HARRIS: All right.

How much you pay for medical treatment may depend on geography. Really? The amount of treatment you get and the costs can vary in different regions of the country. Really?

Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us to talk about the disparities. Come on, Elizabeth, from location to location? The cost for the same essential treatment can be wildly different?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: They can be wildly different. It's so amazing. And we're just not talking about a little bit of difference. We're talking about a lot.

Let's take a look. We have made up two old ladies, two senior citizens. Mrs. Jones lives in Miami, and Mrs. Smith lives in Portland.

Now, Tony, Mrs. Jones, statistics show, she spends $18,000 a year on medical care. She gets Medicare. We know that she spends $18,000 a year.

Mrs. Smith over in Portland, what does she spend? She spends -- get this -- $7,000 a year on medical care.

HARRIS: Whoa.

COHEN: That is a huge, huge difference.

HARRIS: Yes.

COHEN: And let me show you, it's not the just the big cities that we see this. We also see this in smaller places. For example, in McAllen, Texas, Mr. Jones, he spends $16,000 a year on medical care in McAllen, Texas. That's how much it costs to take care of that little guy there.

In La Crosse, Wisconsin, Mr. Smith he spends just $6,000. Look at that difference. It definitely has people scratching their heads. Why are there such huge differences?

And I know, Tony, you've asked the question, so I'm going to come on over.

HARRIS: Yes, come on over.

COHEN: I'm going to sit next to you.

HARRIS: I'm just curious. You can't see those numbers and not ask yourself what the heck is driving this? How can it be so much more expensive for the same condition, the same treatment program in Florida? What accounts for all of this?

COHEN: Right. And it's not a cost of living difference. I talked to the folks at Dartmouth College who put this together. And they say, look, when you look at a city like Miami, those doctors tend to refer to specialists a lot and they tend patients to the hospital more than in other cities.

So, once you go to specialists a lot and you end up in the hospital a lot; that is expensive. That's where the money comes in. Going to specialists and going to hospitals. And in those cities, they use specialists and doctors quite a bit.

HARRIS: OK. So, I'm looking at this disparity. I've got a huge cost over here compared to this cost over here. I'm assuming that I'm getting better results and a better outcome over here.

COHEN: That is the crux of this. You're actually not getting a better result according to the folks at Dartmouth. They say, yes in Miami, you're spending more than twice as much money per person to take care of people compared to Portland but they say the people in Miami aren't any healthier. They're just not any healthier and in some ways they are less healthy.

Now, some people would argue with that analysis but they are definitely not three times healthier. Let's put it that way. They are not three times healthier. It makes people think what is going on? Costs are just out of control.

HARRIS: I'll tell you what is going on here.

COHEN: You tell me.

HARRIS: I'm going to tell you what's going on here. You take a city like Miami and you take a state like Florida and you have more capacity in that system. You have more hospitals. You have more beds available. You have more specialists and you know what? If you have it, you're going to use it and you're going to charge for it.

You have more here than you have in Portland, Oregon. That's what is going on.

How far off am I?

COHEN: And that is indeed what the folks -- the folks at Dartmouth say you are right on. When you have more specialists and when you have those hospital beds waiting to get filled, guess what? They get filled and that takes a lot of money.

Part of it is also something kind of a -- it's a little bit gray but it's sort of like the culture of medicine. That folks in some cities just kind of expect the specialists. They expect to be referred out whereas in other places people are more willing to kind of stick with their own family doctor.

The minute you're sent to a specialist, those bills go way up.

HARRIS: At some point if you want to get a handle on costs, you've got to deal with those disparities, don't you?

COHEN: Exactly. Exactly.

HARRIS: They're just efficiencies.

COHEN: Right. Why are there the 46 million uninsured that Nicole mentioned.

HARRIS: Yes.

COHEN: Why are there 46 million uninsured? One of the reasons is that health care costs have gotten out of control.

So President Obama actually has been mentioning that we need to look at cities like Miami and say, what are you doing? Why is it costing $18,000 a year to take care of Mrs. Smith whereas Mrs. Jones is costing less than half that in Portland?

HARRIS: Yes.

COHEN: So, zeroing in on those geographic differences can help health care reform.

HARRIS: We're getting there.

COHEN: We're getting there.

HARRIS: At least, explaining why there is such costs in this system. OK. We're getting it.

COHEN: Right. We're peeling the onion.

HARRIS: Peeling the onion. And you're back with us at noon because we're going to get ready for the speech of the president.

COHEN: That's right.

HARRIS: I can't wait for that.

Elizabeth, appreciate it.

COHEN: Thank you.

HARRIS: And, again, we're going to be zeroing in on the health care debate all this week.

Elizabeth Cohen right here now will join me to focus on different topics each and every day. Tomorrow: are there disparities in health care for minorities? What about women?

Health care -- all week, 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

New pictures coming in from Iran right now. Let's take a look at them. We are seeing defeated Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi. There he is for the first time since the end of the election. Details coming up in just a moment.

And talk about a high-flying birthday for a former president, HLN's Robin Meade was along for the jump, and she will tell us all about it. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: You know, it is not the first time -- and he says it won't be the last. Really, Robin, it won't be the last? Former President George H.W. Bush celebrated his 85th birthday Friday by jumping out of a plane at over 10,000 feet. What? Who does that?

Joining me now was someone who was on the jump...

ROBIN MEADE, HLN HOST: Who did that?

HARRIS: Robin Meade from our sister network HLN. What was that experience -- is this your first jump?

MEADE: It's my first jump.

HARRIS: What was that experience like for you?

MEADE: It's his seventh. It was my first. If you think about it, you're going from 10,000 feet, and you're going at 120 miles per hour. So, your body is accelerating that fast. I said, to be honest, the first two seconds are not pleasant. But then...

HARRIS: Why is that?

MEADE: Because you really feel your body accelerating going 120 miles per hour. But it's thrilling for him, and it's thrilling for me that I got to go along with him. But then after that you feel like you're flying and the parachute comes out and you have a pretty view. But this man is 85.

And I called him an adrenaline junkie because he still loves doing this.

Before this -- this is kind of a three-parter here. Before this happened, I got to sit down and interview him one on one and, you know, we haven't talked to him in a while here. Here I go.

HARRIS: Look at this. Look at this.

MEADE: The thing you do for a job. I would never do this in real life, but for my job I would.

HARRIS: OKs. You mentioned that you had an opportunity to sit down and talk to him and this is fun and this is great fun and great to watch.

MEADE: Exactly.

HARRIS: But you did some journalism here as well here and you had an opportunity to sit down with the former president and talk to him. And it's not like he is an open book. He doesn't like to talk about himself all that much, does he?

MEADE: Now that he's out of office, it's kind of like this code of honor. I feel like he feels he should not be speaking about the people in charge. He says, "Hey, I did my job. Now it's time to let them do their job." So he has a reputation of being reluctant to talk about how history will look at himself.

But here is what he said when I asked him about, what about your legacy? What do you think?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had a good administration, good people, and I think the same thing is true of our son. And you know, he had tough times and all, but he's doing it right, he's laying back there, and he's not criticizing the president, and I'm very proud of him.

And I hope that we both have set examples with how you ought to conduct yourself when you've been president and then go out of office. Let the other guys do it and support them when you can and be silent. Don't be out there criticizing all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Yes. And he has been a class act, and there's no doubt about that after his presidency.

MEADE: Even after the jump, Tony, when President Bush, 43, and Jeb Bush came over to congratulate their father, and the media starting asking questions of 43, he said jokingly, "I'm on a media blackout."

HARRIS: Nice. Not that we want it but, yes, perfect.

MEADE: The reluctance to talk about himself and get involved in that.

HARRIS: Let's not lose sight of the fact that this was a birthday jump and, you know, you give gifts for birthdays, right? What did you give?

MEADE: Three parts. You have a birthday, you have a jump, you have an interview. And I'm like, "what else can I do for the birthday -- we give the special access -- he's the president. He can have anything he wanted.

HARRIS: Sure.

MEADE: So, I called up John Rich, a country star.

HARRIS: Big and Rich, yes.

MEADE: Exactly. I said, John -- this is the day before. Can you sing the president a song? I know he likes country music. So, he ended up doing a special performance of a song that he wrote about his grandfather in World War II, which is perfect because Bush is a World War II veteran himself.

HARRIS: Yes. Absolutely.

MEADE: I wanted to show you the human side of President Bush 41. This is him watching and listening to that special performance.

HARRIS: Very cool.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADE: There's your copy of the CD. I hope you enjoyed that.

BUSH: I did. And now we've got to call him up.

MEADE: Yes. Absolutely. Now, won't he just be upset if he doesn't answer the phone?

BUSH: We'll just -- we'll leave a message for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: That's very good. We wanted to see him actually watch the performance, but he got an opportunity to leave a message or to actually talk?

MEADE: He had to leave a message. John Rich was not there. He left a message, and the funny thing was, John Rich said, I'm almost glad that I didn't answer because now I have that on my voice mail.

I think that shows you not only how the man is thinking about lawmakers, politics as it is now but the human side. He wanted to thank this person. It's a good opportunity.

HARRIS: Good stuff.

You're not going to jump again?

MEADE: I have a deal with him, if he jumps when he turns 90 that I get to go again.

HARRIS: You are -- look at that. This is crazy. Robin, appreciate it so much.

MEADE: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: That is awesome.

Robin Meade on our sister network, HLN, "THE MORNING EXPRESS WITH ROBIN MEADE."

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, President Obama pitches his plan for government-sponsored health insurance to America's doctors.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: As we mentioned, President Obama is on the road today, pushing his plans for health care reform. His audience has a vested interest in what happens, to be sure. He is addressing the American Medical Association conference in Chicago. White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux live from Chicago for us with a preview.

All right, love it when you're in the room, Suzanne. What do people in this group think of the president's plan to reform health care, at least so far?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, this really is a tough crowd. I had a chance to speak to a doctor, Dr. John Yield (ph) of Atlanta. He's an anesthesiologist. We had a chance to talk here, and there are a couple of concerns that he was mentioning. One of them is that they're looking at where are these dollars going to go? The president talks about savings, cutting corners, this type of thing. It's going to happen fairly soon. You can hear the microphones there and everybody getting settled in. But cutting costs here, he says, look, if the money goes to primary care physicians, not specialists such as himself, they're going to lose out on this deal. So, that's one thing.

The other thing is here is that the president is calling for cutting back on unnecessary prescriptions, extra tests, procedures, those types of things that might not be necessary. The doctors here in this group say, yes, you've got a point. We're going to try to control those costs.

But at the same time, they say we want some insurance here, malpractice lawsuit insurance. Give us some protection so that if there is a procedure, if there is something that a patient comes back and says, you missed, because they didn't actually prescribe those battery of tests, they want to make sure that they are covered. That was the second thing that he said was really important they want to hear from the president today. We expect that the president's going to address those two concerns -- Tony.

HARRIS: All right. The room's starting to get busy and hectic in there. We'll let you go, Suzanne. Appreciate it. Thank you. And of course, we will bring you President Obama's speech to the AMA live in the NEWSROOM. It is expected to begin around 12:15 Eastern. That's 9:15 a.m. Pacific.

You know, most Republicans agree any government health insurance plan is a nonstarter. I want to talk about that and other headlines with Senator John McCain. He joins me live from the capital.

Senator, I've got to tell you something. I told you this just a moment ago. We were deluged with e-mails to my blog page because you ran into some travel problems and couldn't join us on Friday. No one is more happy than I am that you are here with us this morning. So, thanks for being with us.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, thank you, Tony. And I apologize.

HARRIS: No worries.

MCCAIN: I was traveling back to Arizona, and I apologize.

HARRIS: Well, we're just happy that you're with us today. Let's get started on health care here. You've said in the past that the biggest problem with the American health care system is one of cost and access, and as a result, tens of millions of individuals have no insurance. Do you believe there should be some system to cover the uncovered right now in this country? And what would it be?

MCCAIN: Oh, I think we could do that. I think it's obviously we should make health care affordable and available. I think there are many ways to do that, including the issue that I -- was so controversial during the campaign, and that is to take employer- provided health benefits, remove the taxation of and the tax break of it and give all American families a $5,000 refundable tax credit.

I think we're in agreement on incentives for wellness and fitness. I think we are in agreement on portability. But this, quote, "government option" is something that's a nonstarter. And one other thing is medical malpractice. I'm glad the president's going to bring it up today, but he better be pretty specific because he's got a very significant base in the trial lawyers, who will resist that vigorously, obviously.

HARRIS: Yes. Let's see if we can break it out a little bit. Obviously, I just want to get you on the record on these things so that we hear clearly where you stand on this. In the past, you've said your reforms are built on the pursuit of three goals. And let's tick them off one at a time here.

MCCAIN: Sure.

HARRIS: The first goal was paying only for quality medical care. How do we do a better job of that? Because we're talking about this all this week, and my guess is, we'll be talking about this through October and beyond. How do we do that? How do we get these costs under control?

MCCAIN: Well, ranging from medical malpractice reform to obviously, because of the unnecessary tests that are administered daily by doctors just to protect themselves from lawsuits to putting in incentives in health insurance plans in order for -- to have wellness and fitness, including allowing people to go across state lines to get the health insurance of their choice, which obviously increases the competitive aspects of it. And of course we have to have the elimination of the fraud, abuse and waste. But there has to be incentives to do so.

HARRIS: Yes.

MCCAIN: And so, it's -- look, if we have a government option, then sooner or later, it will have -- dramatically increase the cost. It will crowd out private health insurance. And if you're doing it in the name of competition, we have 1,300 health insurance companies in America today. They're competing, but they're not getting the kinds of health care costs under control that's necessary.

HARRIS: Yes. Do you think that is absolutely necessarily so, that if you have a competing government system, that invariably, what will happen is that you will drive some of the private health insurers out of the business?

MCCAIN: I don't think there's any doubt about it. Over time, you'll drive them all out. And the idea that somehow the government can administer health care in America in a more efficient fashion than the private sector I think flies in the face of the examples of other countries that have done so.

HARRIS: Will you help us with -- and it's another idea of costs here. We just talked about health care costs for one particular problem in Miami and the same procedures, the same course of treatment in Portland. And the cost is decidedly less. How do we get control over those disparate costs from region to region, from city to city, state to state?

MCCAIN: Well, you know, there's a famous article, I think it was in "The New Yorker," about McAllen, Texas...

HARRIS: Yes.

MCCAIN: ... having the highest costs. And one of the reasons they found out for that is because the doctors own the facilities that provide the health care that they refer people to. That's one of the areas that I think where the government probably has to step in.

But I also think that malpractice reform has to be an integral part of it because of the additional tests that are also associated with it for fear of being sued. But, again, if you take the tax benefits associated with employer-provided health benefits and remove that and give the American people a refundable tax credit, then there will not be the tendency to gold-plate health insurance benefits because then the decisions will be in the hands of the consumer.

HARRIS: All right. If I could, just one more quick question.

MCCAIN: Sure.

HARRIS: As the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, what is your view of the provocative actions from North Korea recently? And this is certainly something that your committee is going to have to deal with. What are you looking at? What are our real options for dealing with North Korea?

MCCAIN: Our real options are to enforce the U.N. Security Council resolutions, which has got significant holes in it. We don't know if Russia and China will enforce those sanctions. Very importantly, make China understand that a key element in our relations is their influence over North Korea.

Finally, if we have to inspect North Korean ships, we should inspect North Korean ships. We know that they are trying to export their technology because they need the money. But let's not get into negotiations where the object is further negotiations. And that's been the history of the Bush and now the Obama administrations.

HARRIS: And finally, your reaction to the election results as we know them from Iran.

MCCAIN: Well, it's very disappointing, of course, but not astonishing, because the Muslims clerics, extremists, control the political climate and mechanisms of Iran. And it's not encouraging to hear that the ones who perpetrated this fraud are now going to be in charge of the investigation. So, I hope that we can succeed in our relations with Iran, but this is not a good sign, and we should speak out strongly in opposition to what was clearly a corrupt election.

HARRIS: All right. Senator McCain, thank you so much for your time.

MCCAIN: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: We appreciate it.

MCCAIN: Thank you.

HARRIS: Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM today, defiant demonstrators in Iran and around the world to protest the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They prefer that man, Mir Hossein Mousavi. But who is really running the country right now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: CNN iReporters are sending in amazing images from the election protest in Iran. Let's take a look and listen here. This was the scene in Tehran on Saturday. The CNN iReporter who sent this does not want to be named for security reasons. Protests held also this weekend in Paris. Let's take a look. These images sent by an Iranian student, Nadir E. He says he doesn't want his last name used, also for security reasons. He tells us that the protest was completely peaceful and involved about 300 people.

And this scene yesterday in Los Angeles. CNN iReporter Arash Nikoo says hundreds were there to support Mir Hossein Mousavi as the elected president of Iran.

CNN -- come on over here. I want you closer to me. CNN senior editor for Arab affairs Octavia Nasr joins me now to discuss the impact of all of these images. Octavia, as we take a look at these pictures again, who are these people? Who are the people who have been out on the streets protesting? Are they the intellectuals? Who are they, and why are they strongly supporting this man? And what is it ultimately that they're asking for that they want in these protests from Los Angeles to Chicago to Freedom Square to Revolutionary Square?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SENIOR EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS: You know, these are people who want their voices to be counted. They want their vote to be counted. They believe they were robbed out of their vote. They say they voted for Moussavi.

They believe that he should have been the president of Iran, and they believe that the elections were fraudulent, that the count was fraudulent, and they're asking for basically what they see as a reasonable request. They want their vote to be counted. They're angry because they feel that the process was filled with irregularities. They want some kind of a recount or an investigation into the vote.

HARRIS: But as I look at -- and, again, these are demonstrators from Revolution Square to Freedom Square and, again, all over the world this weekend. As I look at the faces here, mostly women, seemingly young people, what portion of the population is young? And I don't know how we're defining young. My guess would be in the 20s. What section of the population -- and this is the future, right? These young people.

NASR: They are the future. But it would be wrong to think that Ahmadinejad, for example, doesn't have female supporters or young supporters. He does. Or intellectuals who support him.

Really, Iran is split in two right now, a movement that's taken it forward and a movement that's keeping it back. And what we've seen, because of these election results, we've seen the two clash, and clash violently in many cases.

And we're hearing about it firsthand from people who are so tired of the old system. They're saying they want to be transparent. They want the world to pay attention to what is going on. And they're going out. They're using the Internet, as a matter of fact, to send the messages out to the world. And basically, they're saying, we want you to help us.

HARRIS: Help me here. We're making too much of this presidential election because the real power is not in the hands of the president. It's in the hands of the supreme leader.

NASR: It is. It is. And you know, we always say that. Any time we talk about Iran, we say that. But what we've seen this time that is very different is that the power is in the hands of the people. I mean, these are people who were controlled. Their freedoms were controlled, their media controlled, their speech controlled.

And, yet, they managed to rally support. They managed to stand behind this man, Mir Hossein Moussavi. And basically, everything you're looking at, you're going, how did they organize all of this? How did they manage to do this in a state as controlled as Iran? And even the Iranian officials right now are surprised at what they're seeing.

HARRIS: What is it, all the social networking sites, the tweeting thing and...

NASR: Twitter, Facebook, YouTube.

HARRIS: What are you doing tweeting and Twittering? Are folks...

NASR: That's the future.

HARRIS: This is the way it's...

NASR: That's today, and that's the future. And I tell you, I think Iranians found their voice on the Internet.

HARRIS: Yes.

NASR: And they're using to their advantage. They were able to rally support. As you said, they rallied support from across the globe for their cause, and they're seeing results. Just look at what happened today.

HARRIS: Yes.

NASR: Today, you have authorities in Iran saying we will investigate the elections...

HARRIS: Yes, yes.

NASR: ... and they're asking Moussavi to basically back off, call his supporters to stop the rallies. That's victory to who? To the people.

HARRIS: Octavia, appreciate it. Thank you.

Ah, boy. Are you going to tweet folks and tell them that we're done here?

NASR: I'm going to tell them that...

HARRIS: Yes, you are.

NASR: ... this was a good segment.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Keep the conversation going. Let's do this. Iran's Guardian Council says it will review the election results. Thousands of supporters for both candidates are rallying in the streets, and we've been showing you the pictures. The people who want the world to keep discussing the politics and the regime.

So, tell us what you think. Share your thoughts with me. Just log on to cnn.com/newsroom. Got to go, got to go, got to go.

Are you feeling the pinch in your pinch in your pocketbook every time you need a prescription? CNN's Gerri Willis joins us live with how you can save the next time you need a refill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Yes, let's get to Gerri Willis. You know, prescription drugs, the experts at "Consumer Reports" say Americans shell out a quarter of a trillion dollars every year on medicines. Man, personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here with ways to cut your prescription costs.

Gerri, let's start here. What can you do if you've just lost your job?

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Well, there are lots of programs out there. Pfizer, for example, recently announced that it would provide 70 of its most widely prescribed prescription drugs for free to folks who lose their jobs and health insurance. The company will give away the medicines for up to a year for those folks who've lost their jobs since January 1st of this year and have been on a Pfizer drug for at least three months. Here's the phone number: 866-706-2400. Keep in mind, too, here, Tony, some warehouse stores like Costco, B.J.'s, Sam's Club, they have competitive pharmacy services. Go to their Web sites for more info.

And check out the following Web sites, needymeds.org and destinationrx.com for price comparisons. One word of caution here, beware of fly-by-night sites, where you risk getting counterfeiter- tainted drugs. Look for the sites that carry this seal, VIPPS. Those are the letters you're looking for. It stands for the Verified Internet Pharmacy Practice Site. It's long. VIPPS.

HARRIS: Nice. Yes, yes, yes. Are there other ways, Gerri, to score a bit of a discount here?

WILLIS: You bet. You want to think about drug discount cards. They're available from state government, membership associations, nonprofit organizations, for-profit businesses. Now, you can save as much as 15 percent to 50 percent on certain medicines. The cards may have annual fees that can range from 30 bucks to 60 bucks for family. We talked about Pfizer, but Merck also has a discounted drug program. Keep in mind there may be some income requirements here.

And of course, don't be embarrassed to ask your doctor for medicine samples, especially if you're getting a new prescription.

HARRIS: Right.

WILLIS: You may want to test it out first, and they will do that for you. And of course, if you have any questions, send them to me at gerri@CNN.com. We love hearing from you, and we answer those questions right here every Friday.

HARRIS: All right. You gave us a couple of numbers there. Why don't we do this. Why don't we rip this off, put it on our blog here so folks can go back...

WILLIS: Great idea.

HARRIS: ... and take a look at it and get those numbers.

WILLIS: Absolutely.

HARRIS: All right, Gerri, appreciate it. Thank you.

WILLIS: My pleasure.

HARRIS: CNN NEWSROOM is zeroing in on the health care debate all this week. Elizabeth Cohen joins me to focus on different topics each and every day. Tomorrow, are there disparities in health care for minorities? What about women? Health care all week, 11 a.m. until 1:00 p.m. Eastern, right here in the NEWSROOM.

President Obama is talking health care reform today in Chicago. We are less than 30 minutes away now from his speech to doctors at the American Medical Association conference. We will have it for you live in its entirety. Plus, our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is standing by with analysis. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Analysts say pump prices -- oh, yes -- are surging at their fastest pace ever, and the increases show no sign of slowing. Told you so. Triple-A says the average price for a gallon of regular unleaded is $2.67 today. That's a dollar more than a gallon you were paying in early January, when the oil collapse hit bottom.

Put another way, listen to this. It cost $38 to fill up Toyota's mid-sized SUV, the 4Runner, in January. Today, it will cost you $61.

Expect California's deadline to pass the state budget to come and go today. State lawmakers haven't met the target date since 1986. And this year, they have to deal with a deficit of more than $24 billion. Last month, voters rejected plans to tax and borrow more to relieve the deficit. Without a budget agreement by the end of next month, the state comptroller says California will -- will -- run out of money.