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Iran's Ayatollah Sets A New Tone In Post-Election Unrest By Allowing An Investigation Into Allegations Of Voter Fraud

Aired June 15, 2009 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The voters have spoken and shouted and rallied and protested in Iran, but how far will they go to be heard? How far will the government go to keep order? We're pushing forward on the questions that arise from a monumental protest, by one account, five miles long, against what protesters call a stolen election.

Iran's government says President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won Friday's vote in a landslide, but pro-reform candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi doesn't believe it, and neither do his supporters. They've asked Iran's Guardian Council to investigate. Despite an official ban on political demonstrations, security forces have been holding back.

But we're following media reports that volunteer militia loyal to Iran's Revolutionary Guard opened fire today, shooting one protester dead.

For days now, CNN's Christiane Amanpour has been in the thick of the Iranian election turmoil. She joins me now from Tehran, where it's just after 10:30 at night. Because we were all paying such close attention to your interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Christiane, listening to how you questioned him, you had asked him did you -- was something missed in the translation, and he said he did respond to your question. Do you feel that the president did answer your questions?

AMANPOUR: Well, no, and the thing is that the answer was revealed today that in fact, Mr. Mousavi was able to come to the rally, and he did actually address those people. But when I asked yesterday in the press conference, it was because nobody knew where he was. There were so many conflicting rumors -- was he arrested, was he under house arrest, what was going on?

We asked his supporters. Nobody could get a straight answer. And therefore, I asked that question in the press conference. And as you saw the sort of nonanswer, roundabout answer that seemed to imply when he said, you know, he's run a traffic light, and therefore he's been fined, that in fact he would -- he was being punished. But today it was clear that a tone had shifted here in Tehran compared to over the weekend, when those protests were met by riot police and some of the revolutionary vigilantes, the non-uniformed vigilantes.

Today, a huge pro-Mousavi rally went from one square to another along several kilometers of Tehran street and ended up at Freedom Square. Where Mr. Mousavi was able to address the crowd and talked about the election and talked about the importance of the people's vote.

And this was a decision, I'm told, taken by the government to allow today to unfold peacefully. There were scores and scores of riot police but we saw they were just lined up along the rally march and they did not intervene.

We also saw many, many busloads of riot police but they had been positioned quite a distance from the rally. When we went there it was very peaceful, slogans were being chanted but there was no scuffling, there wasn't a police to be seen. As I say, Mr. Mousavi was able to address the crowd, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Christiane, you talk about this shift in tone. I want to ask you as we sort of push forward here. When you look at the supreme leader, what he initially said about the election's outcome, now he's coming back and saying he will look into a possible investigation. Are we seeing a shift in power here? Is the supreme leader really that supreme? Or is he turning into somewhat of a negotiator?

AMANPOUR: No. He's still issuing the edicts and he is still the official highest authority here, the highest authority which governs most of the major portfolios, whether it be nuclear, whether it be military, whether it be foreign. And everybody else answers to him.

But what we are seeing is, yes, he did come out and give that seal and stamp of approval after the election commission announced those results. But in the interim, since they have been so heavily disputed, his message that was read today on state television said that if Mr. Mousavi, or any other candidate, has serious questions, questions the legitimacy of the election results, then they should pursue that through legal means.

By that he meant through the Guardian Council, which is that religious vetting body that tells you who can run for president and who can't, and all the other rules around the particular electoral process here. And Mr. Mousavi has done that. And we had a statement, or rather, a statement was issued by the Guardian Council that they are going to take that investigation up, or rather, Mr. Mousavi's complaints up, investigate them, and perhaps come back with some kind of result in ten days or so.

So this is all, you know, it is a bit of a shift, but the way it's being described to me - and remember, this is uncharted waters, unprecedented, there's never been this kind of thing in this country before. What has been explained to me is that they are now trying to let this unfold according to their democratic parameters.

PHILLIPS: Christiane Amanpour, appreciate your reporting, so much.

We have also been getting a look inside Iran. From our actual iReporters that are there. Take a look at some concerned about retaliation. Don't want to give their names. But this iReporter actually pictures of this protest in Tehran. You can see demonstrators chanting, clearly angered by the election's disputed results.

Some compelling reporting from the ground via Twitter. Azar News says that some news from Shiraz: People are in the street near Uni in Eram and they are calm. Still, there is no civil police. I'm moving there." About an hour later, people were clapping and calling Mir Hossein, suddenly the riot police threw four tear gases among people." I guess, tear gas canisters among people. "One of them hit the head of a young boy."

And this one came from Change For Iran, IRG, the Revolutionary Guard, threatened to open fire at people if they tried to participate in Mousavi's rally. It's worth taking the risk for going. I won't be able to update until I'm back. Again, thanks for your kind support and wish us luck."

Those Tweets coming to us out of Iran.

Now, the post-election backlash is being felt far outside Iran. This is New York, Dallas, London and Toronto. Iranian ex-pats and their supporters demanding to be heard in Tehran and around the world.

So why does the world care so much about a leader who, at best, is the second most powerful figure in his country? Let's talk to Trita Parsi once again. He's founder and president of the National Iranian- American Council, and author of "Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Iran, Israel, and the United States".

Pushing forward and looking to the relationship between the U.S. and Iran, Trita. If indeed Ahmadinejad stays in place as the president, once again, continues his leadership. What does it mean moving forward for the Obama administration?

TRITA PARSI, PRES., NAT'L. IRANIAN-AMERICAN COUNCIL: Well, I think it's worth remembering that at the outset that the United States and the Obama administration did not decide that they want to pursue diplomacy with Iran because of a particular liking or disliking of any candidate. They decided to go down the path of diplomacy because it lies in the interest of the United States to have a better relationship with Iran in order to, for instance, be able to stabilize Iraq, stabilize Afghanistan, address the disputed nuclear program that Iran is pursuing.

As a result, I don't expect that there's going to be significant change in the direction of where the Obama administration will want to go. But the atmospherics, the comfort level, the political factors, can all change depending on how things develop inside of Iran. Whether it is Ahmadinejad or Mousavi, but also whether it is a president that might have an image in the international community that has been somewhat tarnished because of accusations of fraud.

PHILLIPS: So why would the supreme leader support an investigation into this election? It's uncharted territory. It's not happened before. Is it because he's concerned about what he's seeing on the streets, and the reaction that has taken place inside his country? Or is he concerned that Ahmadinejad may indeed have tainted this election? PARSI: Well, I think what is happening is that A, there is already a legal recourse, which is that the Guardian Council should investigate any accusations of fraud. And accusations of fraud have taken place in the past. It's never reached this type of a level, but it's happened in the past. But my understanding is that they're supposed to do this within three days. Now it's been changed to seven to 10 days. I think essentially, what that side is saying is that they're just following the legal procedures if there's any concerns about fraud it can be investigated.

The perception, however, whether that is the intention or not, the perception seems to be that this has been something that has occurred as a result of pressure from people on the streets, pressure from people around Mousavi.

PHILLIPS: All right. Trita Parsi, appreciate your input this afternoon.

PARSI: Thank you so much.

PHILLIPS: For millions of people outside Iran this election isn't just political, it's personal. My Iranian-born colleague Asieh Namdar joins me later this hour.

Now a story that we feel passionately about: American military veterans and VA hospitals that might be failing them. We've got new information to push forward. The VA conducted surprise inspections at more than 40 of its clinics last month to see if they were following procedures for colonoscopies and other noninvasive tests.

Get this: The Associated Press reports fewer than half the clinics passed those tests. How could that be? These inspections came months after the VA said about 10,000 veterans might have been exposed to HIV and other infections because the equipment wasn't sterilized. Now, at first, the problem revolved around three clinics. Now there's fear that this problem could be much broader. That's why a House committee will have a hearing on this tomorrow.

One of the lawmakers pushing this forward will be with us tomorrow. Congressman Phil Roe of Tennessee, ranking Republican on the House subcommittee that oversees Veteran Affairs, he's also a doctor. His big question is just how widespread is this problem?

We want to update you on another story behind this disturbing video that we showed you. We have been following allegations made against Texas schools for the mentally disabled. Nearly 270 people have been fired or suspended for abusing these residents. Some staffers at one Corpus Christi school allegedly staged fight club matches between the residents. More than 40 employees at that facility have been disciplined or fired.

There's a troubling new report. Staged fights may have been going on since 1979. Yesterday., a Texas judge gave victims' families more time to prepare their lawsuits against the state of Texas.

President Obama's blunt message to American doctors. Reform the nation's health care system now or America may go the way of GM. We'll break down what the president told the American Medical Association.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Let's check in on Wall Street. Take a look at the numbers. Right now Dow industrials down 195, almost 196 points.

The president's top money man, Tim Geithner, talking today about rewriting the financial rule books. Speaking at Time-Warner's Summit on the Economy the Treasury secretary says our regulatory system is too fragile and unstable. Time-Warner is the parent company of CNN.

While short on specifics, Geithner says regulatory overhaul may include giving the Federal Reserve more teeth to prevent future meltdowns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY GEITHNER, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I think that if we're careful in making sure that as we fix the crisis, we're laying the foundation for a more productive economy. Then we're going to have a more stable, more sustainable growth in the future. That's what the president's trying to do. That's why at an early stage we're trying to make sure we're making investments to improve education outcomes, to reform health care, improve energy efficiency, strengthen our infrastructure so the basic foundation, reform the financial system, so the basic foundation of the economy is more stable in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: President Obama expected to unveil details of the plan on Wednesday.

Expect California's budget deadline to come and go today. State lawmakers haven't met the target date since 1986. This year they have to deal with a deficit of more than $24 billion. Last month voters rejected plans to tax and borrow more to relieve the deficit. Without a budget agreement by the end of the next month state controller says California will run out of money.

Airlines urged to step it up. Lessons learned from this crash and what the FAA says airlines must know about the pilots flying their planes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: This plane crash back in February is one of the reasons airlines have been called to a safety summit today. You may remember a Colgan Air Flight 3407 went down near Buffalo, New York, killing all 49 people on board, and one person on the ground. NTSB hearings revealed the captain had failed two pilot exams. Pilot training is a major part of today's summit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDY BABBITT, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: Training, good effective, training has to be at the top of our list. We need to take steps that we are all meeting and exceeding the standards of training. And training has got to be more than just checking the box. The fundamentals of quality training are clear and direct. And there is a difference between the quality and the quantity of training. When I say checking the box, we want to get to the point where we know that pilots have been instructed and they've got it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The FAA and Transportation Department are looking to get voluntary commitments from airlines today to improve training and performance.

Nasty weather is posing problems over the Midwest, Great Plains and Southeast today. Meteorologist Chad Myers tracking all those trouble spots -- Hey, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Kyra. Only one tornado warning so far today. With one cell that's moved through southeast Missouri. But I suspect we'll have more coming up. These big boxes you see popping up here, those are severe thunderstorm boxes. Not so much a threat of tornadoes today, but the threat of big hail.

We've also had one report on a Doppler radar of hail as big as three inches today around Centerville, Missouri. Especially just to the south of Centerville, Missouri. I will zoom in to that cell right now. It's a nasty looking guy. Even has that kind of comma hook to it which means there's a mesocyclone in there, which means there's rotation in this storm. That is what they cyclone part is, meso means small. Small, little low right there. The potential for tornado on the ground, that's why these pink boxes are here. These small pink boxes are tornado warnings, right now, which means this thing could have a tornado on the ground at any time. And it might even, right now, there to the southeast of Centerville in Missouri.

Could have a potential for a watch over here into North Carolina. Some of these cells could have some wind and some small hail. And then back up to the north we even had some cells to the northwest of New York City here. There's just the north of Scranton. There's a cell right there. That's like Lucerne County. Then all the way back up here into the Hudson River Valley, picking up a couple showers and thunderstorms.

Now because of those thunderstorms around LaGuardia some planes are not being allowed to take off. That's what ground stop means. Doesn't mean that they're stopping planes at LaGuardia. It means they're stopping planes at Albany. They're saying, nope, you can't take off just yet. We have too many planes in the air. We have to get these planes on the ground first. We have storms in the area. We don't want too many planes circling waiting to land.

San Francisco, you're about 30 minutes and Chicago, 30 minutes. But I suspect here. When we get an area of weather that is going to be this big from the Dakotas all the way down through Georgia, into the Carolinas, almost to Texas, we'll have more weather and more delays coming up in the afternoon.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: Sure.

PHILLIPS: As you may have seen here on CNN, former President George H.W. Bush celebrated his 85th birthday by jumping out of a perfectly good airplane just about 10,000 feet up in the air. Joining him on the jump - actually, just prior to the president, Robin Meade from our sister network, HLN. She actually talked to Tony Harris earlier about the jump and her interesting chat with the former president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBIN MEADE, HLN ANCHOR: Oh, here I go.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Look at this! Look at this!

MEADE: The thing you do for a job. I would never do this in real life, bur for my job I would.

HARRIS: OK. OK, well, you mentioned you had an opportunity to sit down and talk to him. This is fun and this is great fun and great to watch.

MEADE: Exactly.

HARRIS: But, you know, you did some journalism here as well here. You had an opportunity to sit down with the former president and talk to him. It's not like he is an open book. He doesn't like to talk about himself all that much, does he?

MEADE: Now that he's out of office it's kind of like this code of honor. I feel like he feels he should not be speaking about the people in charge. He says, hey, you know, I did my job. Now it's time to let them do their job. So he has a reputation of being reluctant to talk about how history will look at himself. But here is what he said when I asked him about what about your legacy. What do you think?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had a good administration. Good people. And I think the same thing is true of our son. And you know, he had tough times, and all, but he's doing it right. He's laying back there and he's not criticizing the president. And I'm very proud of him. I hope that we both have set examples for how you ought to conduct yourself when you've been president, and then go out of office. Let the other guy do it and support him when you can and be silent. Don't be out there criticizing all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Yes, and he has been a class act. There's no doubt about that, post-presidency. MEADE: Even after the jump, Tony, when President Bush 43 and Jeb Bush came over to congratulate their father, and the media started asking questions of 43. He said jokingly I'm on a media blackout.

HARRIS: Nice. Yes. Not the answer we wanted, but yes, perfect.

MEADE: The reluctance to talk about himself, or get involved in that.

HARRIS: Let's not lose sight of the fact this is a birthday jump. You give gifts for birthdays. Right? What did you give?

MEADE: So, right. This was three-part. You've got a birthday, you've got a jump and you've got an interview. And I'm like, what are we going to do for the birthday?

HARRIS: Right.

MEADE: We get this special access. He's a president. He can have anything he wanted. So I called up John Rich, the country star of "Big & Rich" fame.

HARRIS: "Big & Rich", yes, yes, yes.

MEADE: Exactly. And I said, John - this is the day before.

HARRIS: Right.

MEADE: This is the day before. Would you sing the president a song. I know he likes country music. So he ended up doing a special performance of a song that he wrote about his grandfather in World War II, which is perfect because Bush is a World War II veteran himself. I wanted to show you the human side of President Bush 41. This is him watching and listening to that special performance.

HARRIS: Very cool.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADE (on camera): There's your copy of the CD. I hope you enjoyed that.

BUSH: I did. Now we got to call him up. You got a number for him?

MEADE: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Won't he just be upset if he doesn't answer the phone.

BUSH: Well, just - we'll leave a message for him.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: That's very good. So we wanted to see him actually watch the performance but he got an opportunity to leave a message, or to actually talk?

MEADE: He had to leave a message.

HARRIS: He left a message, OK.

MEADE: John Rich was not there. He left a message. The funny thing was. John Rich said I'm almost glad I didn't answer because now I have that on my voice mail.

HARRIS: That's true, Yes.

MEADE: I think that shows you not only how the man is thinking about, you know, lawmakers, politics as it is now.

HARRIS: Yes.

MEADE: But the human side. He wanted to thank the person.

HARRIS: Good stuff. Good stuff.

MEADE: That's just, you know, a good opportunity.

HARRIS: You're not going to jump again?

MEADE: I have a deal with him if he jumps when he turns 90 then I get to go again.

HARRIS: Awesome.

MEADE: Whee!

HARRIS: This is crazy. Robin, appreciate it so much.

MEADE: Thanks, Tony.

HARRIS: That is awesome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: All right. Switching gears a bit, straight ahead, bloodshed amid the post-election backlash in Iran. We're pushing forward with the latest information, the newest pictures, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A breathtaking picture from the heart of Tehran. Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators trampling on a ban of post- election rallies. Those - three days after voting for the president these Iranians and their supporters around the world claim that the election was rigged and reformist candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi was robbed. Security forces stood on the sidelines today, though, one protester reportedly was shot dead when a crowd attacked the compound of a pro-government militia. CNN cannot confirm those details, by the way.

Among the vast throngs in Tehran's Freedom Square today was Mousavi himself. His first public appearance since the election. Reports say that he's ready to compete in a do-over vote, but there are no signs that's going to happen. Let's get some background on a man who's electrified Iranian politics like few before him.

Mir Hossein Mousavi was born in 1941. He's an architect, a painter. And he is married to a very well-known artist and academic. He served as Iran's prime minister during the devastating eight-year war with Iraq in the 1980s. He's seen as a reformist, though in Iran that's a bit of a fuzzy and highly relative term. He's spoken out in favor of free speech. And he said that he would continue Iran's nuclear program, but only for peaceful purposes.

The election in Iran sparking protests across the world. Here's a look inside Iran from our iReporters. Some concerned about retaliation, by the way, so they don't want to give their names. This iReporter took pictures of a protest in Tehran. You see demonstrators chanting and essentially what they're saying is Ahmadinejad, shame on you. Let go of the country.

A dump truck drove into the square and the protesters asked the driver to dump its contents. He did. To cheers from the crowd. An Iranian student, named Nader, said that he didn't want to use his last name. So he sent these pictures in of a demonstration in Paris. He says the protest was peaceful and involved about 300 people.

And iReporter Arash Nikoo sent us these pictures from a rally in Los Angeles. Dozens of people protested the disputed election results. Many demonstrators dressed in green, opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi's trademark color.

Well, the whole world has a stake in the Iranian presidency. But let's talk about some of them actually have special ties to us. That includes my HLN colleague, Asieh Namdar. You left Iran because of the revolution. I know you have been monitoring this as well as your family, all your relatives, the community within where you live. What's your reaction?

ASIEH NAMDAR, SENIOR WRITER, HEADLINE NEWS: Kyra, I have to be honest with you, 27, 28, 29 years I have lived in this country, I have never witnessed anything like this. The pictures, I have been mesmerized by the pictures, saddened and believe it or not, not that surprised by what I've seen, especially the alleged abuses, the violence, the beatings and alleged voter fraud. Not since the 1979 Islamic revolution we have seen this kind of fervor, high emotion, high drama but sadly enough, few people saying at the end it will really make a difference.

PHILLIPS: They don't think it will make a difference?

NAMDAR: They hope it's the beginning of something, but there is fear that these protests will be quelled, and their voice will ultimately be silenced. So the next few days, it will be very interesting to see what happens. We're getting reports of gunfire already.

PHILLIPS: Right. And reports of actually one protester being killed. NAMDAR: Right. Reports of beatings.

PHILLIPS: So if Mousavi is declared the winner, let's say there's an investigation, they find out that there's fraud, Mousavi is declared the winner --

NAMDAR: Which, by the way, most people would agree is very, very unlikely.

PHILLIPS: The odds pretty much against that.

NAMDAR: The experts I talk to say Ahmadinejad will stay the winner for sure.

PHILLIPS: Okay. But if Mousavi was declared the winner, does that necessarily mean better relations with the U.S.? Does it mean more freedoms for Iranians?

NAMDAR: Listen, the bottom line is, Iran a theocracy, run by a few powerful mullahs like Ayatollah Khamenei. He has the final say. So whether it's Mousavi or Ahmadinejad, at the end of the day, truly, maybe it goes from a C-minus to a C-plus. But at least Mousavi gave people hope. He gave people a chance to perhaps dream of something better, and the dream was ultimately crushed.

PHILLIPS: It's interesting to watch the supreme leader to come out in support of the election. The election, the election, this is -- however, he's backing away now, saying okay, it will be investigated. So is he sort of negotiating here?

NAMDAR: Certainly, he is facing a tough challenge, and a lot of experts I talk to say he ultimately had no choice. He had to support the process but say okay, if some of you have questions, if the entire world is watching and there are issues, all right, we'll investigate.

PHILLIPS: So these protesters, all these students that are out on the streets, it's just amazing when you look at this video, ultimately, what do they want to see from the Obama administration?

NAMDAR: I spoke to a colleague of mine who works for Amnesty International, and she has spoken to her friends and relatives in Iran. She says the biggest fear of the Iranian protesters, Mousavi supporters have, is that the media spotlight, number one, will stop, the protests will die down and number two, the Obama administration -- they want the president to come out and say we support these protesters, we understand your message, we get your hope and aspirations.

But clearly, you and I being journalists -- oh, the Obama administration is in a very tough situation because it has offered to open dialogue with this government. So do you legitimize the existing government or do you give credence to the people who are speaking out with a very powerful message?

PHILLIPS: Fascinating to watch. We haven't seen anything like this in years. NAMDAR: We certainly haven't. I have to be honest with you, as an Iranian-American, I have been riveted. It's hard to stay objective. You have family, you have emotions. So much at stake.

PHILLIPS: Appreciate your input. Thanks.

NAMDAR: Thanks, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Saying it not once but twice, Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu repeating his willingness to accept a Palestinian state. Netanyahu first said that in a speech in Israel yesterday, but tough strings are attached. Any Palestinian state must be demilitarized. Palestinian officials shot down the offer, but stopped short of refusing to resume peace talks. The White House says President Obama welcomes Netanyahu's offer and remains committed to working with both sides to bring about lasting peace to the region.

Vice president Joe Biden is talking tough about North Korea. The vice president says that Pyongyang poses a serious threat to the world ,and he insists it's crucial that the U.S. keep the pressure on and enforce the U.N. sanctions against the communist nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They say a lot of things. This is a fellow and this is a regime that says an awful lot of things, and the truth of the matter is that it is a destabilizing force in the region. There is a coalescing of that conclusion on the part of the Chinese, Russians, Japanese, South Koreans, Americans like never before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does he want?

BIDEN: God only knows what he wants. There is all kind of discussions, whether this is about succession, wanting his son to succeed him, whether or not he's looking for respect, whether or not he really wants a nuclear capability to threaten the region. There's a whole range -- we can't guess his motives. We just have to deal with the reality that a North Korea that is either proliferating weapons and/or missiles or a North Korea that is using those weapons or has them mounted on missiles is a serious danger and threat to the world, and particularly in east Asia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: This comes as U.S. intelligence agencies confirm today that North Korea did conduct a nuclear test underground late last month.

Justice will have its say, but the woman who lost her son in last week's shooting at the Holocaust Memorial Museum has had hers. In her heart, hate is not welcome.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: U.S. Supreme Court won't get involved in the border fence case in Texas. Not now, anyway. El Paso, several counties and some private groups have been in a fight with the Department of Homeland Security. The plaintiffs question if the 700-mile border fence is legal and claim the Homeland Security Secretary was given too much power to push it through. The fence is almost finished. The justices today refused to hear El Paso's appeal.

The patient soon to be the defendant, James von Brunn, the man charged in the Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting, is expected to survive his wounds. Federal magistrate in D.C. is holding a hearing today to figure out when his first court appearance will be. Listen to what the mother of the security officer who was killed actually had to say about him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUELINE CARTER, MOTHER OF STEPHEN JOHNS: I have forgiven him. It is heartwrenching. I won't say that it isn't, because it is. It's not easy to go through these times. But I mean, what can you do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: That is one amazing woman. Jacqueline Carter says she hopes von Brunn's son will be able to forgive his dad, too. Eric von Brunn says the crime is unforgiveable, and wishes his father had died instead of officer Johns.

Now a story we have been all over the past few days. The child porn sting out of Florida called Operation Orange Tree. Two fugitives still out there. "America's Most Wanted" reports a third, Pierre Domville, actually turned himself in over the weekend in New Jersey. He was wanted in the rape of a 15-year-old girl. Ricardo Lecky is wanted in the same crime as Domville. And Rashard (ph) Whitehead is accused of forcing young girls to watch pornography and perform sexual acts. Call the cops if you know where these guys are.

Two guys walk into an insurance office. It's not the start of a joke, but a pretty big buzz. Are the characters supposed to be gay and does it matter?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Gay characters have become more commonplace on TV shows. Now a commercial has viewers wondering if they also made the jump to commercial breaks. Here's CNN's Kara Finnstrom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A lesbian kiss on ABC Family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time to move everything my family could ruin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like our romantic vacation for two?

FINNSTROM: A gay relationship on "Brothers and Sisters." American idol's runner-up coming out. Gay characters in storylines have become common on TV. But when a Progressive Insurance commercial featured two guys who could be a couple...

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I need to start saving on car insurance.

FINNSTROM: ... the buzz started.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I've had to cut back.

FINNSTROM: People ask, are they gay or are they straight? Because it seems the one place on TV we still don't expect to see a homosexual couple is the commercial break.

According to Progressive...

LARRY BLOOMENKRANZ, CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER, PROGRESSIVE INSURANCE: They were just supposed to be friends, like Joey and Chandler, really.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa. Is this Poland?

BLOOMENKRANZ: In hindsight, we've gotten a couple of comments and e-mails and so on and buzz about are they gay or not gay? Originally, the intent was not to make them gay. If some people read it that way, that's fine for us.

FINNSTROM: The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation keeps an eye on commercial content, and while it's aware of the company's stated intentions, the group says it's noticing more ads opened to interpretation.

RASHAD ROBINSON, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF MEDIA PROGRAMS, GLAAD: A lot of companies are trying to include more images with two guys going in a store to buy something or two women going together to book a trip.

FINNESTROM: Advertising experts say that kind of advertising can appeal to a broad spectrum of people without offending those turned off by ads featuring overtly gay couples.

JON FRIEDMAN, MEDIA COLUMNIST, MARKETWATCH.COM: A lot of America still has problems with the idea of homosexual men and women being treated as quote, unquote "average people." So for a business, it's definitely a risk.

BLOOMENKRANZ: We're not trying to do anything other than what you see, which is sell auto insurance. And people just read a lot more into it than certainly we ever intended in some cases.

FINNSTROM: Kara Finnstrom for CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Here's a doozie for you. An offer some nurses can't refuse. Bigger boobs free of charge. We will tell you who's making the offer, why and the reaction. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: There are more jokes about Illinois ousted governor Rod Blagojevich than we can actually count, but over the weekend, he got in on them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: Before you go out on stage, I thought was very interesting. That is we got your back. I've been in politics. That's not anything that anybody says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Blagojevich taking the stage at Chicago's Second City Theater for a one-night-only cameo in "Rod Blagojevich Superstar," the play that mocks his life. After the show, he reminded everyone it is fiction. As for his legal troubles, a trial date has not yet been set over whether he tried to sell a Senate seat.

Here's a story that really grabbed our attention. It's like getting health care at Hooters. Listen to this. Free breast implants for nurses. Not kidding, folks. Some private health clinics in the Czech Republic offering the big boob job if nurses renew contracts or sign on for the first time. Yep, the perks just keep getting perkier.

One nurse who accepted the deal says she was taught that looking attractive actually helps patients recover faster. My guess is more Czech guys are going to get hurt on purpose. The clinic says the offer has helped increase applications by 10 percent, helping the severe shortage of nurses. Some women's rights advocates are outraged, saying it's like turning nurses into prostitutes.

If your kids are also obsessed with the Jonas Brothers, get the real story behind this popular boy band. We have unprecedented exclusive access to them on and off stage. The Jonas Brothers answer your questions at CNN.com/larryking and watch Thursday night at 9:00 only on CNN on Larry King Live.

Let's take a look at live pictures right now, first lady Michelle Obama introducing the White House Music Series, featuring artists of all ages, by the way. The first genre -- jazz, of course. The series started with a jazz studio workshop. One hundred and fifty students will take part in these classes led by jazz greats like Wynton and Bradford and Ellis Marsallis. A concert will follow, and there will be similar events this summer and fall with country and classical music.

Millions of uninsured Americans watching closely as Congress debates plans to reform health care. There is another group keeping a close eye on it, too. These folks have a lot at stake.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: President Obama entered the lion's den today, bluntly telling a group of skeptical doctors of the urgent need to overhaul the nation's health care system. Addressing the American Medical Association in Chicago, Mr. Obama warned that failing to reform the system could have a catastrophic impact on the federal budget and the livelihood of all of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A big part of what led General Motors and Chrysler into trouble in recent decades were the huge costs they racked up providing health care for their workers. Costs that made them less profitable and less competitive with automakers around the world. If we do not fix our health care system, America may go the way of GM, paying more, getting less and going broke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Joining us now with her take on this, CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. What stood out to you in this speech, Elizabeth?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, what stood out to me was something President Obama did not spend much time on -- his beef with the American Medical Association is basically the AMA has said they are not in favor of the government sponsoring a health insurance plan that people could opt for. They have said they don't think this is the best way to go. He spent very little time on that, maybe a couple sentences. Mostly he talked about things that he and the doctors agree on -- costs are out of control, we need to do something. He sort of kept repeating those themes they all agree on.

PHILLIPS: There were a couple instances, though, of standing ovations. What did the doctors seem to like?

COHEN: The doctors like to hear, I have written them down, one of them he said, "You doctors did not go into this business to be bean counters, you went into this business to be healers." They definitely seemed to like that. He also said that he wanted to pursue health care reform that works for you, that works for doctors.

Now, it's interesting, though, because some of the things he has said he wants to pursue, a lot of doctors don't like. So I can't imagine that every doctor really truly will be happy with what the reform that he plans -- it's unclear whether the AMA will even be happy with the reform that he plans.

PHILLIPS: We will keep tracking it. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks.

As the debate over health care reform goes on, there's one group that's actually keeping a keen eye on the proceedings. Kate Bolduan sat down with small business owners who may have a lot to gain or lose with what Washington eventually settles on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): David Guernsey employs 170 people at Guernsey Office Products in Virginia. Brian England has 18 employees at his Maryland auto repair shop. Both small businesses that provide health insurance to their workers, but both admit it's getting harder and harder to keep up, especially in today's economy.

DAVID GUERNSEY, OWNER, GUERNSEY OFFICE PRODUCTS: It just adds to it. No question about it. Top line's not going up, gross profit's not going up, expenses in terms of health care will go up, and that affects the bottom line.

BRIAN ENGLAND, PRESIDENT, BRITISH AMERICAN AUTO CARE: The pay is the number one expense, obviously, to running a business. Next is rent, then next is health care. So it's third in line. A very large third.

BOLDUAN: As the burden of offering health care coverage grows, these men and their employees are keeping close watch on Washington and the health care debate. One idea England supports, requiring employers to provide coverage. He says it would help level the playing field for him against competitors.

ENGLAND: You can't build off the backs of those who do the right thing. That's what's happened. Every year it gets worse because the rates go up, more employers stop providing complete coverage and that makes a big problem for the ones that are left.

BOLDUAN: But Guernsey fears that expanded coverage could come with an expanded price small businesses simply can't afford.

GUERNSEY: If the requirement were such that the kind of coverage we offered were dramatically different, dramatically more comprehensive, and the cost accordingly would go up significantly, that would then be a problem.

BOLDUAN: Instead, he hopes small businesses will be allowed to pool their coverage to help drive down prices. In the end, these small business owners agree, health insurance for their workers is a top priority.

ENGLAND: That's because that's the right thing to do.

BOLDUAN: But like many others, they hope Washington plans to fix a broken health care system that doesn't put them out of business in the process.

(on camera): Small businesses are likely to be central to this debate. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, about 40 percent of companies with fewer than 200 employees don't offer health benefits to their workers.

Kate Bolduan, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Before we move on to Rick Sanchez, we want to tell you about a story we have been all over the past few days. The child porn sting out of Florida called Operation Orange Tree. Two fugitives still out there. "America's Most Wanted" reports a third, Pierre Domville, actually turned himself in over the weekend in New Jersey after we aired our story last week. He was wanted in the rape of a 15-year-old girl.

Now, Ricardo Lecky is wanted in the same crime as Domville. Take a look at his picture. And Roshard (ph) Whitehead, also accused of forcing young girls to watch porn and perform sexual acts. Call the cops if you know where those thugs are.

That does it for us. We'll be back here tomorrow. Rick Sanchez takes it from here.