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Charges of Fraud in Iranian Election

Aired June 15, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: Was the Iran election a fraud as these protesters charge, and will the promised election review be any better?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many of us know one person in our family with diabetes?

ANNOUNCER: Have you seen the new movie, "Food, Inc."? Maybe you should if you want to know why you are fat and getting fatter and sicker. That's what the movie says. We'll debate it.

President Obama needs to be more like President Bush. Who's saying that? Democrats? You'll hear it.

And the discussion continues over the officer who Tasers a 72- year-old woman. Seventy-two? Because she cursed at him? You're kidding, right?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: If you don't step back (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Your national conversation for Monday, June 15, 2009, begins right now.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. We will start with breaking news. It does appear things are moving in tehran, iran. We have pictures coming out now. It is 11:30 in Tehran and these are some of the scenes that we are getting from there as we begin this newscast. As you can see, in scenes reminiscent of what we were seeing on parts of the day Saturday, once again, it appears that protests, possibly more violent, are flaring right now in the streets of Tehran. And these appear to be protesters who are angry that their candidate, Mousavi, has been denied an electoral win. If that is indeed what happened. There are many questions being raised right now as to whether or not Ahmadinejad or Mousavi actually has won this election, and this is the result of that bitter debate and conflict. Let's listen in together now.

(SHOUTING)

All right. Obviously, as we continue to watch these photos coming in, this video, and given the nature of this being breaking news, we are going to be staying with this story.

There are a bevy of news events and pictures that I am going to be taking you through. And I should probably tell you right now, some of them are very graphic, given what has happened today in Tehran. We are going to share it with you at least one time, and be very careful, and give you plenty of warning before we show it.

Before we get to that, let's go back to those pictures, if we can now, Dan.

Octavia Nasr is joining me now. She has been our specialist. She has been in contact -- in fact, she's in contact right now. I'm watching her with her BlackBerry in her hand trying to communicate with people there in Tehran to get us the latest information.

My question to you, it looked Saturday like things had started to get out of control. Then, Sunday, everything calmed down. And now, as we see these pictures coming in from Tehran once again, it looks like it's escalating. What gives?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SENIOR EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS: What happened here is that people -- tension was building over the weekend. There's no doubt about that.

Mousavi, his whereabouts were unknown. Even our Christiane Amanpour, our international correspondent, asked President Ahmadinejad repeatedly in a press conference if he can guarantee the safety of Mr. Mousavi, and he won't answer that. He won't guarantee that.

SANCHEZ: Is that what's sparking this?

(CROSSTALK)

NASR: Well, that -- that -- that built the tension. So, you had supporters of Mousavi wanting to know where he is, his whereabouts. They wanted to demonstrate in his -- in his support.

He requested several times -- from the minister of interior, he requested a permit to demonstrate, and they wouldn't give it to him. So, today, the Mousavi supporters held a rally, and Mr. Mousavi showed up to that rally, and the crowds went berserk. They went crazy.

They loved seeing him. They were encouraged. They were energized. And then, at that point, I was in touch with a couple of people in Tehran, and they were saying they went home because they felt that something was not right. They felt that things were going to get out of hand.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: And it looks like things are possibly getting out of hand.

NASR: And it looks like they did.

SANCHEZ: Now, again, much of this video we're watching with you, much of it unedited. As we get it, we're going to share it with you and be as -- as transparent, essentially, as we can. There's another piece of video. Actually, it's a still. It's a photograph that I'm going to share with you now. Before we show this -- and we are going to watch this together -- let me tell you why we're showing this. The implications of this photograph obviously can send shockwaves around the world.

If in fact it's proven that the person that you are about to see, which is a person who has been killed, apparently by gunfire, by a shot to the face, was in fact shot and killed by Iranian security or government forces.

Obviously, it can send shockwaves around the world. That could have some more severe implications. So, one time, we are going to take a look at this picture together. It's very graphic. And if there are children in the room right now, and you want to make sure they don't see it, it would probably be a good time right now to step away or have them leave the room, just to be perfectly fair and honest and transparent about this.

All right, Dan. Let's show it. OK. There you have it. It's being described to us -- and, Octavia, as we look at this video, tell us what you are understanding that happened here. Obviously, it was someone killed during a protest.

NASR: Really shocking, disturbing image.

It is sending shockwaves across the Internet as well. And, as a matter of fact, one person I have been dealing with who is a supporter of President Ahmadinejad, and she voted for him. But she told me that she is very disturbed by this, not because of anything, not because it proves anything. No one knows the details of what happened.

It's just shocking to Iranians right now to see this kind of violence.

SANCHEZ: Well, what would be the turning point here, though? If -- if it is -- there are some preliminary reports indicating this may have been the act of an Iranian security member, an Iranian police officer, not confirmed, but those reports are out there, and we can't be blind to them. If in fact it turns out that that is true, would that be apt to escalate this situation even more?

NASR: There is no doubt. There is no doubt, because emotions are running very, very high right now. Emotions are running very, very high. You look at a picture like this, someone killed this way...

SANCHEZ: Is it a martyr situation that has as much effect in that part of the world as it does anywhere else?

NASR: It is. But it -- but this is about what looks like a civilian being killed in cold blood, someone who is demonstrating, someone who is -- who is basically making his voice heard.

(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: No different -- no different than our own revolution catalyzed by a shooting in Boston, no different than many other revolutions, the storming of the Bastille.

Throughout history, we have seen events like this that can have a profound influence and impact.

NASR: Right.

I wouldn't take it as far as use the revolution word, because that's a bit too inflammatory, especially for Iranians.

SANCHEZ: Potentially? Potentially?

(CROSSTALK)

NASR: Not even potentially.

SANCHEZ: OK.

NASR: I'm not willing to use that word, because, because, as awful as that picture is, there might be an explanation around it. There might be some kind of reason why what happened happened. Who carried out the killing is very, very important.

So, even if people are upset, they are going to be more saddened by the reality than upset to take it to the level of a revolution. That's -- that's a big word...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No, I understand.

NASR: Big word.

SANCHEZ: And that's why I have you here.

NASR: Right.

SANCHEZ: And that's why I'm asking.

NASR: Right.

SANCHEZ: There's another picture we are going to share now. Watch this one with us. Apparently, in that same area, there was another shooting.

We are going to now show you a picture. This one is much less graphic. This is a picture of a man who apparently has been shot in the abdomen. As far as we know, this man survived, and, again, from that same area.

But do -- do we know if, previous to these incidents that we're reporting now, we had seen gunfire erupting or shoot-outs during this -- this -- these disturbances? NASR: We heard. We heard many, many times of gunfire shots. As a matter of fact, we heard rumors of gunfire shots at the Tehran University.

We also heard over the weekend that students at Tehran University were stuck into their homes -- into dorms, some of them severely injured waiting for medical attention. So, we heard lots and lots and lots of rumors. And, again, that's the danger of social media, because it allows people to send out all kinds of messages that we cannot take to air.

SANCHEZ: You're absolutely right.

NASR: We cannot go and confirm it.

But, yes, we heard people had said many, many times that they heard gunshots and they weren't sure where they were coming from.

SANCHEZ: Well, here's our obligation here at CNN. Our obligation obviously is to try to nail down whatever information goes along with those pictures that we have shown you so far. We will work to do so.

Two other tidbits of information that I probably should share with you which may add some credence to what you have seen so far, a, an iReport of possible machine gun fire. We are waiting to nail this one down. And, when we do, we will likely share it with you, so stand by for that.

And, also, as you mentioned, through social media, we have been checking on Twitter. And, on Twitter, there are reports that some of the dormitories at University of Tehran have been turned upside down. There are some -- apparently some bloody pictures being sent in of students as well.

So, as we nail that down -- here's what we should probably do now, because this story is moving so fast. Let me try and take you back through how this whole thing got started.

First, let's go back to Saturday. After the government said that Ahmadinejad had won by more than 62 percent, Iranians took to the streets. Now, this is the video of Iranians taking to the streets that day. These are supporters of Mousavi. They didn't believe it.

But the security apparatus there did in fact beat down on them. Many were arrested while the world watched. They were threatened and their protests shut down. What's more, they were also shut up with attempts to shut off social media, phone lines and e-mails.

Did that stop them? This is where this story gets even more interesting. No, it did not. How did they continue to protest? You know what they did? They took to the roofs of buildings. That's how. Watch and listen to this video shot in Tehran.

This is last night. And it's kind of eerie and meaningful. Now, that's people last night in the middle of the night protesting the only way they thought they could after the government reproachment. And that is going to the rooftops of buildings.

They're -- they're protesting from rooftops, screaming in the middle of the night. The last time they did that, a revolution took hold in this country that toppled the shah. That's why this is interesting and significant. That was 1979.

And that is why that protest last night would -- would possibly be impactful and significant again. It's their voices in the dark of night replacing their ability to e-mail or to make telephone calls. Then, by daylight today, something else happened.

And now that catches us up with what we have been showing so far. Let's show some of those protests that you, Octavia, were describing moments ago while it was still light there.

Take that, if you can, Dan. Now, these are people obviously in conflict with what the government is telling them that they have lost the election, they don't buy it, they don't believe it, and they're showing their convictions, though -- Octavia, let me bring you back in -- at this point, -- oh, there's Mousavi himself. At that point, it looked peaceful, did it not?

NASR: Very peaceful.

And what happened overnight, Mousavi was able to meet, apparently, with Ayatollah Khamenei. And they somehow made a deal. The deal was that the authorities in Iran will investigate the allegations of fraud in the vote, while Mr. Mousavi will call on his supporters to call off demonstrations.

So, as this was going on, people had already planned to march in support of Mousavi, and then they went, as you see, in huge, huge numbers there. He showed up. And, again, he energized the crowds. And then that was supposed to be the end of that.

And -- and while authorities are investigating the vote and he's calling on calm, things got really out of hand. And this is where people are saying they're not sure what happened. Everything I'm hearing from Tehran right now is, I'm not sure what to believe. I don't know what to believe.

They think that there are some groups -- and there are some vigilantes in Iran, of course...

SANCHEZ: Right.

NASR: ... who could have penetrated these demonstrations, tried to create havoc to create a situation that we're looking at.

That's why it's very, very hard to really point fingers at this point and say who did the killing, who did the shooting, who started what. It is very important to remain calm and report this story with -- with -- without emotions and...

(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: And we should point out that just like these protests that we're looking at today for Mousavi, there were protests yesterday or acts of support for Ahmadinejad in the -- in the same general area.

NASR: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: All right. Here's what we do.

As we go to break, I want to show you -- Dan, if you do once again -- this is what's going on right now, the latest pictures. These are these nighttime pictures where it appears that, once again, there are violent clashes going on, on the streets of Tehran. For those of you once again who may have joined us late, we have been taking you through the entire picture from beginning to end, but this is where the story is now.

There appear to be some kind of violent protests taking place on the streets of Tehran right now. There are the pictures. We expect this to continue. And as we get more information -- and we're being as transparent as we possibly can with this, folks. There are as many questions as there are answers. Octavia is going to stay here with me. She's in contact with some folks via Twitter and Gmail in Tehran.

And she is going to try and see if she can hook us up with some of them. So, stay where you are. Let's forego the tease. Let's just go to break on this. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Through the power of social media, we're bringing you the very latest information and details out of Tehran. And we're also doing by teaming up with some of our own officials and correspondents and our sources, folks who are good enough, like Octavia Nasr, to come out here and join us.

But maybe no one has as good a handle on this story as our own Christiane Amanpour. Look, she's been there since this thing started last week, in some cases getting hit with tear gas during protests and following the situation. So, it is an opportunity now for us to be able to ask her some of the questions that maybe can fill in some of the holes that we have been raising.

So, Christiane Amanpour standing by now in Tehran to bring us up to date.

Christiane, first of all, what's the situation there right now?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, very fortunately, Rick, we haven't been hit, I haven't been hit. But others have been and they have been pushed back from some of these protests.

Right now, there has been people coming out on their roofs, as you mentioned earlier. This is sort of like a periodic shouting, "Allahu Akbar." That's the protest from within their houses that they're doing in the evenings. And it's sporadic around the town. It's quiet now.

We have heard traffic with the protests, honking, and that has been going on regularly as well. But what's happened today is that there was a total shift, because, even though rallies were banned and permits for any protests by the Mousavi camp was -- was -- was turned down, they decided, the government decided to allow this huge rally to take place, where people, literally just supporters had sent the word that, at about 4:00 this afternoon, they were going to march from one main square, Revolution Square, to another one called Freedom Square.

And the authorities allowed it to take place. Although they did have a lot of riot police deployed, they were deployed around the edges of this demonstration, and they did not intervene. And I'm told that was a deliberate decision by the government to allow this to take place peacefully and to allow the process to unfold within the parameters of their own democratic process, as far as it goes.

Also, Mr. Mousavi was able to come out and address his supporters, which was the first time he had been able to be seen publicly, thus clearing up the mystery of his whereabouts and his safety.

Now, in the evening, there, you have shown pictures of some of the more violent protests. Again, I'm told that those are dealt with violently when they are violent, and those which are peaceful will -- so far are allowed to go peacefully. And that's what they're telling me here, that, like in any other city, they would crack down on stone- throwers and the like.

That's what the government people here are saying. So, there's been a bit of a tonal shift today. But, of course, at the end of this peaceful rally, there have been these pictures which have come forth of one -- at least one person who has been killed. And the reports are suggesting that that was not at the hands of the uniformed security, but of the non-uniformed vigilantes that are closely aligned with the president and the fundamentalist elements of this society and who have come out to try to crack down on these kinds of -- of civil unrests.

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you what really is a cut to the chase in this situation, Christiane. It's obvious, common sense will tell you, that there are thousands of people in Iran who are not satisfied with the results of this election.

Is there anything that the government can do or plans to do to convince them otherwise?

AMANPOUR: Well, yes. Well, it depends -- let me say that again. About convincing them, I'm not sure.

But about steps, yes. Ayatollah Khamenei, the supreme religious leader, came out on television in a statement and basically issued this statement, saying that, if Mr. Mousavi has complaints about irregularities or questions the election results, then he should pursue those complaints through the legal channels. And, in this country, that happens to be this body called the Guardian Council, which is the religious body that vets all election matters. And shortly after Khamenei made that statement, then the council came out and said that, yes, it had this complaint from the Mousavi camp and I think from the Karrubi camp, the other reformist candidate, and maybe even from Rezaie, the other candidate, who is a conservative, in any event, that they were going to investigate these complaints and come out with a decision -- quote -- "soon."

There had been a mention of maybe within 10 days. And we understand, I have been told that the candidates will go to the Guardian Council tomorrow to air these complaints and put them down.

Now, from a government point of view, on background, one official said, well, if these supporters of Mousavi have evidence, well, then let them bring it forward, or are they just dissatisfied with the result? So, there's that kind of debate going on as well, from the government's point of view.

SANCHEZ: Sounds like they got to work through this thing. We will be watching it.

And we're so glad that you're there. Stay safe, Christiane Amanpour, reporting to us live from Tehran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not run up on you quickly, buddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you did.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better get back in that ambulance before you get your butt to jail now. You understand me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, this is another story that we have been following for you, because it's got a lot people riled up around the country. You saw the cell phone video. And now you're going to see the dash-cam video that is even better. An officer stops an ambulance driver from getting a woman to the hospital. Why would he do that?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, as I read your comments and continue to get the latest information out of Iran, let's go ahead and move on to some of the other stories that we have been working on for you.

First of all, this is one you may remember. Remember this story? It's an Oklahoma trooper. He stops an ambulance and then prevents the EMT, the ambulance guy inside the ambulance, from taking a woman to the hospital. Why would he do that?

Well, now the Highway Patrol has released the dash-cam video. Here it is. And the question really is, did the trooper really stop an ambulance to argue with the driver over who should have yielded first to whom on a highway? As crazy as it sounds, yes, he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now. There now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you now. What's the problem?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going on?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm talking to the driver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I'm talking to you.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you better get back in that ambulance. I'm talking to the driver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in charge of this unit, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Maurice White (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... paramedic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I'm going to give you a ticket for failure to yield. And when I go by you (INAUDIBLE) what is going on, you don't need to give me no hand gestures, now. I ain't going to put up with that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Do you understand me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I won't put up with you talking to my driver like that, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ain't listening to you, buddy. You get your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) back in your ambulance, or I'll take you in. I'm talking to the driver.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come over here, Paul.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we got a patient in this unit right now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You want to go ahead and pull over to the side of the road when there's an emergency vehicle behind you?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I wasn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ran up on us too quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not run up on you quickly, buddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you did.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better get back in that ambulance before you get your butt to jail now. You understand me?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to get my patient to the hospital. You can take me to jail. We will discuss this, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will discuss -- come here, Paul.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. I have got a patient in this (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

(CROSSTALK)

(SHOUTING)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... turn around now.

(CROSSTALK)

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around now. Turn around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have got a patient. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have got a patient in this unit.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you are assaulting me.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You turn around.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are obstructing my patient.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You turn around now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better turn around.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is in this...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all better back up.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody call the police.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can arrest me. Follow me to (INAUDIBLE) hospital.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get on. Get on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I mean, talk about an out-of-control ego. What was he thinking? The -- the trooper has plenty of time to think, apparently, now, because he's on administrative leave, pending the outcome of an investigation.

And, by the way, the woman you heard screaming in the background was the patient inside the car, inside the ambulance, saying, what's going on out there? What a scene.

Well, the other scene obviously we're following is all over Iran. And this is the -- this is the -- these are the very latest pictures that we have been sharing with you. Again, this is breaking news, as we're getting new information about the clashes there with either government forces, security forces, or as Christiane Amanpour just reported moments ago, vigilantes, people on the side of Ahmadinejad who may be clashing with people on the side of Mousavi.

So, stay with us. We're getting new information. As we do, Octavia, you will share it with us and break this down for you.

Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: It does appear there are clashes once again in Tehran. And, as we take you through some of these pictures over the next couple of minutes here, let us remind you, some of the pictures, especially these that you're looking at now, are nighttime pictures. It's about 11:30 there in Tehran right now.

And these are the latest pictures we have gotten. As we have this discussion, you will see other video. You'll see some dayside video of the protests from earlier today, which seem peaceful, until we saw this. And you will also see perhaps some video from over the weekend, where there were also clashes like this, but that will be dayside video.

All right, Octavia Nasr, following things for us. What are you learning?

OCTAVIA NASR, SENATOR EDITOR, MIDEAST AFFAIRS, CNN: Well, one thing about the images, very important to say that we don't know if this is a continuation of the earlier demonstration. The earlier rally was in support of Mousavi, and he showed up, everybody was energized, they loved seeing him there.

He had apparently struck a deal with the authorities there that they will investigate his claims of election fraud while he calls on his supporters not to demonstrate anymore.

Then some people, most people are saying that this could be a side-act, this could be just a few vigilantes showing up, trying to create havoc, create this kind of situation to divert the attention from the real issue, which is the election and the election results.

SANCHEZ: What's the frustration? You and I this weekend spent a portion of our time, when we weren't trying to spend time with our families, Twittering with people or reading the reports and Twitters and connections and URLs that are coming out of Tehran.

But then I understood that the government was trying to stop that, to shut down all communication. What's the status of that right now?

NASR: And they did. They did shut down communication, cell phones. I hear from people that I'm dealing with, cell phones are off, SMS is not an option.

What we have had, we have had Twitter for awhile, and that has been working well. Today, we're having problems. One of my contacts, Ali, in Tehran, I talked to him via Google Talk, and basically he said he's unable to tweet out. He says every time he tweets out, it bounces back.

That could mean -- he also said that the connections are very slow. That could mean that someone is interfering with the connections, making it hard on people to communicate.

So today, we've had very minimal communication. I did also speak with Sharzad (ph), who is my other contact, who --

SANCHEZ: Who we interviewed Friday.

NASR: We interviewed her Friday. She is pro-Ahmadinejad. And basically she is saying the same thing, Internet is very slow. And really the only thing we have left is Twitter and Google Talk. So those are becoming difficult to maneuver as well.

SANCHEZ: And there some video we're seeing now of some of the clashes that we've seen reported earlier on the streets. This again is not now. The nighttime video is what's going on now. This is stuff from previous, either during the weekend or early in the day.

And I just want to be as transparent with this as I possibly can. In fact, I'm being told by Angie Massie this is video from -- Angie, I think you said Sunday? That's right. This is video we had coming in yesterday. I don't want to create the wrong impression of what's going on in the country right now.

By the way, as we continue to follow this, I want to guarantee you that we will be not only depending on our folks, but will be combining with social media.

In fact, go to the Twitter board if we can, just as an example. We have been following reports coming out on Twitter throughout the day. The very first one at the top says "Props to CNN for keeping an eye on the world."

Again, we're not doing it alone. We're doing it with the help, as Octavia mentioned moments ago, with a lot of folks and people, citizen journalism participation, to bring you the information, and we will continue to do so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way the system appeared to work to me was Lady Justice had the scales, and you piled cash on the scales. And the one who piled the most cash on the scales and hired the most experts and the ones most willing to tell the biggest lies, that was the winner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: What happens when a farmer resists the food industry's push for bigger, faster, and cheaper? There is a new movie that says many, many times that farmer isn't a farmer anymore. How can that happen?

Also, that affects in many ways the food that you eat, the food that I eat, the quality of the food that you and I eat. Does it make you fatter? Does it make you sicker?

That's what this movie, "Food Inc." seems to say. We want to challenge it and bring you both sides of this debate, and we will.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: As we continue to follow the very latest situation out of Iran, there's another segment I want to bring you, because this is one that we've had in the works here for a couple of weeks now. So I want you to share in this.

This is an important conversation that it could be argued, we in the news business don't engage in often enough. My wife, my eight- year-old daughter, and my three sons all sat down this weekend to watch a movie together that I thought would be important for us to watch together.

That sparks a conversation about the food that we as Americans eat. This movie is called "Food Incorporated." Here are some clips.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything we've done in modern agriculture is to grow it faster, fatter, bigger, cheaper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you can grow a chicken in 49 days, why would you want one you got to grow in three months?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you go to the supermarket, there is an illusion of diversity. So much of our industrial food turns out to be prearranged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smells like money to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Here's the question that I was left with after watching the movie. It's the one I took up with my wife and my kids. As Americans, are we eating ourselves to sickness and death because a handful of food conglomerates are putting money and power before all else, including our wellbeing?

This is not a question our grandparents probably would have asked, and it's not a question that we'd expect here from farmers in this country, American farmers, who say the guys in suits control what they grow, how they grow it, and what they're even allowed to say about what they grow.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go into a market and you find a dominant farmer, and if you can ruin them, you scare the rest of them to falling into the line.

My family spent $400,000 fighting the battle pretrial, and we were told it would take another $1 million to take the thing to trial. We settled out of court.

The way the system appeared to work to me was Lady Justice had the scales, and you piled cash on the scales. And the one that piled the most cash on the scales and hired the most experts and the ones most willing to tell the biggest lies, that was the winner.

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SANCHEZ: And there you go.

I want to introduce you now to a couple experts who will take us through this. One of them you may know, he has been on our show before, is Dr. David Kessler. He is the former chairman of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. He's in San Francisco.

And then, from New York, nationally known nutritionist Keith Ayub of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine. My thanks to both of you.

First of all, I want to tell our audience, it's not like that movie "Food Incorporated" is the gospel. We're not saying that it is. We're just saying it does present a point of view which many Americans should probably at least have a discussion about, which is what we intend to do.

Let's start with this. Gentlemen, the movie seems to say that there are now only four or five major companies that control everything in this country having to do with food, or at least a good 80 percent to 90 percent of it, whereas in the past, there were many, many more companies. Is that true? Mr. Kessler?

DAVID KESSLER, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: There certainly is a conglomeration in the food industry, you know. And the small farmer is a thing of the past.

The real question is not just the farmer and just the industry, but is our food really food, because nothing really is what it seems to be?

SANCHEZ: He makes a good point, Mr. Ayoob. We see in the documentary they raise this point that they apparently now can raise a chicken in something like 49 days. They also keep talking in this movie about how they chemically engineer soy beans.

Is this necessary, or are we over-mechanizing and over- engineering our food supply? And what's the risk?

KEITH AYOOB, ALBERT EINSTEIN COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, I'll tell you, I think the point here, and I think the movie makes one good point in that it gets a conversation going. And I'm all in favor of that.

SANCHEZ: Right.

AYOOB: However, at the same time, I think when you're talking about things like obesity and health, you're talking about a very multi-faceted issue that's going to have to have a multi-faceted solution.

So Looking at what we're eating is one part of it, but looking at what we're doing is another part of it.

SANCHEZ: But if our choices-- doctor, let me ask you this. If our choices are limited by what the government decides to subsidize or what companies decide to produce because it's more profitable or cheaper to do it, then is it really our choice, or are we being fed this stuff?

AYOOB: I'll tell you, I can tell you, Rick, what I have to tell my patients when they come into my clinic. I don't have the luxury of making them feel like victims, OK? I've got to come up with some solutions for them.

And I think the most important thing we can do to consumers today is let them know that they have choices and they have some power. And they have a lot more power than they really realize.

SANCHEZ: Do they? Let me take that to Dr. Kessler. Dr. Kessler, do we have that much power, really?

KESSLER: The fact is that the business plans of the modern food company is to put fat, sugar, and salt on every corner, make it available 24/7, make it socially acceptable to eat any time, make food into entertainment.

Go into a food court. It's like a food carnival all the time. Who wouldn't want to get on the rides? The fact is fat, sugar, and salt is hijacking our brain. It's making it harder for people to resist.

Just because our brains are being hijacked by all this fat, sugar, and salt, my colleague is right, doesn't mean we can't do things to protect ourselves to fight back. But it has major implications for what we subsidize as government, certainly what we feed our kids in schools for lunches, what we disclose in restaurants.

So the government has a role, the food industry has a role. But we need to fight back, too.

SANCHEZ: Let's leave it there, gentlemen, because we're out of time and we have this breaking news stories going on in Iran.

But I would like to do some more of this. I think it's an important discussion. Obviously good points were made by both of you, and I would like to see if we can continue this type of discussion. As a parent, as a guy with four kids, it helps me. And I think it possibly would help a lot of other folks out there.

My thanks to both of you.

AYOOB: Thank you.

KESSLER: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: There are some stunning pictures from the streets of Iran that we have been sharing with you. We have been bringing you those as they come in.

Some of them are much more potent than others. And I think you've seen what we're talking about, especially at the beginning of this newscast.

We will put you inside these crowds, let you feel the passion from both sides with actual video from Tehran. So stay with us. We will share that with you when we come back.

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SANCHEZ: You guys have been letting us know in no uncertain terms exactly what you're thinking as you're watching this coverage of the situation in Iran.

Let's go to MySpace if we can, first. The response there, as you can see, is this is so crazy, quite disturbing that politics has come to this in some countries, elections mean life or death. Yes, it does.

Let's go to Twitter now. This is a comment on something we did earlier in the newscast. We made a decision to go ahead and show a piece of video that showed a man who had just been killed because of the implications this could have to the story.

And here's the response we're getting -- "I am glad you showed the graphic photos despite complaints you are receiving. People deserve to see the truth and the horror." That's the decision we made as a network as well, and we thank you for supporting us.

It is Iran's biggest, loudest, and longest display of public anger since the Islamic revolution. And now, as we've seen, blood has spilled in the streets of Tehran.

I will do something here now that they don't allow me to do very often. I am going to just let you see things. And I am going to let you see for yourself exactly what's happening there without me, without Octavia talking over it.

This is what it's like to be in the middle of this melee that has been taking place in Tehran.

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(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And I welcome you back. I want to tackle something now as transparently as we possibly can, given that you and I who Twitter and use social media talk about this all the time, that it's important to be direct with something like this.

NASR: Right.

SANCHEZ: I want to tackle directly some conversation about our coverage, the coverage of CNN and social media when it comes to the Iranian election, because occasionally a story does come around that gets as much attention and coverage there in social media as it does here in the mainstream media, as it's often called.

And by the way, that's a good thing. That's a good thing that it's getting that kind of coverage in both arenas. In fact, we began our coverage Friday -- think about this -- by combining with social media to file the very first reports on what was coming out of Iran.

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SANCHEZ: We are now getting media reports, media reports, that seem to indicate that it's the reformer, Mousavi, who has won this election in Iran over Ahmadinejad.

There are two conflicting reports, one of them coming from one of the candidates, Mousavi, saying that he has won the election. There's another one from the Iranian News Agency which seems to indicate quite the opposite, that perhaps Ahmadinejad may have won.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That was the news, ad-libbing just as it came in as we're learning it from folks in our own network and throughout social media.

Then, right after that, I connected with a voter in Iran, who, by the way, Octavia set me up through this. She had set me up and hooked us up. So I had been Twittering with this person throughout the day, who told me live, so you could hear what she had to say, what was actually happening right then and there in Tehran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Who are you voting for?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I vote for Ahmadinejad.

SANCHEZ: Why are you voting for Ahmadinejad?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I thought that he did well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Right after that, Christiane Amanpour joined us. See what I'm talking about, the mixing of social media with our media? She joined us, Christiane did, live from Tehran, to confirm that there were two stories coming out at the time of Iran -- in Iran, one that Ahmadinejad had won, and the other one that Mousavi had won.

There have been some questions raised on Twitter as to whether we covered any of the events enough over the weekend. Frankly, it's a compliment that you expected us to cover it more than our competitors, and we did, as many bloggers have now pointed out.

But to be sure, we double-checked and can document that the story was reported every single hour on CNN in some form or fashion Saturday. And then on Sunday, we extended our coverage with special reports, which included, by the way -- I'm sure many of you saw this -- President Ahmadinejad's live news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another global hotspot, that being Iran, where the quest by a performance candidate has apparently been quashed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What transpired within a couple of days to stun all of those supporters of the opposition?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Iran's president says he was the winner of a free and fair election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back now to our disputed coverage of the disputed Iranian election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's dig deeper now into the Iranian election and what on what it means both inside Iran and for the rest of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, here's the point. Whether it's Christiane Amanpour, her producers, photographers and sound techs getting tear gassed while filing their reports from Tehran, or whether it's our i- Reporters sending us video and stills from the scene, or people on Twitter or people on Facebook or people on MySpace, the fact is that news gathering, as we long have discovered on this particular show, is becoming a collective pursuit. And we welcome that.

More on Iran in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, let's try and close this hour by talking about some of the stuff we've been learning, and also incorporate some of reports that are coming out of social media, I mean, over here on Twitter.

Octavia, let me ask you a question. And rather than go through and read all these to the viewers, I'd rather just kind of try and build some consensus to get a sense of what they're trying to say.

A lot of people on there are saying -- we're getting reports that there was fraud, that ballots were burned and that ballots disappeared from entire villages. Is there anything to document that or disprove that at this point?

NASR: No.

SANCHEZ: None?

NASR: None. And that's why we don't report that stuff, because we do not know. What we're doing is trying to press the officials to tell us, for example, how they perceive the election and the results to be transparent. We're not getting an answer on that.

SANCHEZ: But, yes, obviously, if we were, we would report it, and it would have an impact. That would be a major part of this story.

NASR: Right.

SANCHEZ: We're out of time. Thanks for being with me.

NASR: Any time.

SANCHEZ: Always appreciate it. Good hour. Here's Wolf Blitzer.