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Further Coverage of Iranian Protests of the Election Results
Aired June 20, 2009 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning everybody from the CNN World Headquarters right here in Atlanta. It is 11:00 A.M. local time but 7:30 P.M. in Tehran, a place that we are watching very closely today. I'm Betty Nguyen.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And hello to you all, I'm T.J. Holmes continuing our coverage of what is a critical and eventful day in Iran.
All right, two mass opposition rallies planned, that's in direct defiance of Iran's supreme leader. That's pretty much a virtual blackout on international media coverage. These are some of the first images coming to us from CNN iReporters on the streets. They tell us people have been trying to make their way to the rally sites, are being pushed by heavily armed police. Also Iran's state run Press TV reports that one person has been killed, at least eight people injured in a blast at a mausoleum to Ayatollah Khomeini, that is the former supreme leader. CNN not able to independently confirm any of this because, of course, there is a blackout of foreign press.
Also this morning, there was a meeting of Iran's Guardian Council, the three opposition candidates, you see them there, were all invited. But only one you see there Mousavi attended. Iranian state run television also reporting the council has decided to recount some of the votes from last week's election, about 10 percent of them. But as we know the supreme leader came out in a Friday sermon and said that Ahmadinejad had won a decisive victory.
NGUYEN: CNN correspondents are watching all angles of this story. In this hour we're going to check in with Christiane Amanpour, our chief international correspondent in London. Kate Bolduan is monitoring reaction at the White House. Susan Candiotti with Iranian- Americans in New York. Ivan Watson here at our Iran hub at the international desk right here in Atlanta. All of them reporting to us live today. First, let's take it to our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. She was in Tehran for the election. She joins us now live from London. And we are watching, Christiane, as reports come out, of at least eight people injured, one dead, an explosion at a mausoleum. Also people of faith, the protesters in fact have faced tear gas and water canons. But we have to caution this information, much of it coming from state-run media. What do you make of the developments today?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in terms of what we know, according to sources that we have, first in regards to this explosion. We've seen what Press TV, which is the English language version of state television has said, and that is that there have been blasts and several killed and injured. What the police are saying according to the Iranian Mir News Agency, is that a suicide bomber blew himself up at that shrine that is dedicated to Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder and father of the Islamic Revolution, saying that the suicide bomber was killed and at least one pilgrim. Now, sources have told me over the last several days that they fully expected, and had information that anti-regime terrorist groups would try to take advantage of the situation. And they pointed specifically to what's known as the paramilitary group that's been aligned against the regime for the last nearly 30 years.
There are also other groups that have created bomb attacks in the southeastern part of Iran. So that is what sources are saying. Now, in terms of the rallies that had been called, and not called, we're not sure, it looks from some of the video that's coming in from individuals that this is not the rallies that had been called for. That there may be pockets of hundreds or several small thousands of people trying to get to the squares. But the big, big rallies that were called for have not materialized. Press TV, again, the state television English version and eyewitnesses have told CNN that the riot police have tried to disperse them with tear gas canisters, perhaps even smoke grenades thrown at the ground at their feet and some water canons according to Press TV there.
We've also spoken, this is quite important, we, CNN, spoke to a key supporter of the Mousavi campaign. A key reformist, one of the leaders who said that they were trying to reach the Mousavi campaign and urge them to call off the rallies, because they did not want to put the young people at the mercy of whatever crackdown or response the Iranian security forces might meet out on them. The Tehran police chief told state television that if there were any protests, they would now be deemed illegal and they would be dealt with according to the full force of the law. So that is what we know. Back to you, Betty.
NGUYEN: Is it hard to say at this point, Christiane, if these rallies are not happening in full force, because, one, the people can't get there simply because of the guards that are out there, the police that are in full riot gear, or two, because they have heeded the call by Iran's supreme leader saying do not protest, do not demonstrate today, because if you do, you will face the consequences?
AMANPOUR: I think it's a combination. But I think if you look at the reports that we're getting and some of the initial pictures that we're getting from citizens using whatever means they can, you can see from the pictures that they are much, much less, much thinner than the last several days. And what we've been hearing is, as I told you, that important reformist supporter and leader saying that they strongly recommended that the Mousavi campaign and others call off any rallies in order not to expose the young people to the kind of harsh suppression that we've seen over the last several times of these have popped up. Whether it be in 2003 or 1999.
Also, we're getting reports that those who did want to try to get there, a handful, pockets of protesters were being pushed back and prevented. The two main squares, Revolution Square and Azadi Square, according to people who told CNN on the ground, are surrounded by scores, if not hundreds of riot police. And that is what we're being told. So also we're getting word that some of the protests have cropped up spontaneously in other cities around Iran, have all but died down over the last 24 hours. And the most vocal and visible protests are the people going to their rooftops at night and shouting God is great, or flashing the lights on their cars or honking the horns of their cars. But so far, from what we're getting and what we're hearing on the ground, it is pockets of people going out today, not the huge mass rallies and protests that we've seen on the streets before. And I'm told that despite what some of the opposition leaders may have called for, which was an annulment of the election, that is not going to happen.
NGUYEN: Christiane, one last question for you. This one regarding Mousavi. A lot of people today waiting to see and hear from him. But at the same time we have heard from Iran's supreme leader, also heard on state-run television again today, that if anyone is hurt in these rallies, the consequences of these unauthorized protests will fall on Mousavi's shoulders. But at the same time people waiting to hear and see from him. What have you heard about his whereabouts?
AMANPOUR: Absolutely zero today. We really just don't know. Obviously we've tried calling. There's been conflicting reports as to whether he was calling a rally or whether he wasn't. There was a Facebook entry that said he had. There were others who said that the rallies have been called off. Particularly by one strong clerical group which are pro-reform. Seems to have called off their rally. And also Mousavi apparently did not turn up at the Guardian Council meeting today that was called for all the challengers to investigate their claims of irregularities and cheating and fraud. So Mousavi and (INAUDIBLE) will be the two reformist leaders didn't turn up and we do not know why. We don't know where they are or why that is the case.
NGUYEN: But that was, nonetheless, an important and a strong message that they were sending by not showing up, was it not?
AMANPOUR: Well, they're not there. All we know is that they're not there. We don't know whether it's a message by the -- deliberate or in the absence of them being there. What we do know, though, and it's important to look at what's going on, on the ground and try to sort out what we can verify. And so far, up to now, and right now it is about 7:30 on the ground in Tehran. So it's getting nighttime. The light is beginning to fade. The big rallies that we saw over the last several days have today apparently not materialized.
NGUYEN: But as they both did not show up for that Guardian Council meeting today, a lot of people were looking to that to see if there was any sign, anything being symbolized there. But let me ask you this question in regards to Mousavi specifically. Does he face any danger? What danger could he possibly face when and if he does show up today and speak to the protesters?
AMANPOUR: He does face danger. And that was very clearly signaled and telegraphed by the supreme leader Ayatollah Khomeini who said, that if they continue to go out on the streets, if there was continued what he called violence and destruction of property, then the leaders would be held responsible and face the consequences. That is what the ayatollah said at Friday prayers. And that is, again, what you heard Press TV report, that the police had said, and the officials have said today, that if there is continued violence and destruction of property, then the leaders would be held responsible. That is the view, the red line, the line in the sand, the warning, whatever you want to call it, that is being issued loud and clear by Ayatollah Khomeini.
And the question has been, which is why everybody's looking at today, would there be a defiance of that, or would, as have in the past, the leaders taken heed of what Ayatollah Khomeini has said and retreated from confrontation and tried to figure out if they can another way, another tactic, another strategy to move their reform agenda forward.
NGUYEN: All right, CNN's chief international correspondent who was on the ground there in Iran right before the election, during it, and following the protests. We do thank you for your insights. Christiane Amanpour joining us live from London today. She's followed this throughout the course of it. Also, we have a special with her tonight, 7:00 Eastern. It's called, "From the Streets of Iran," it airs right here only on CNN.
HOLMES: Let's turn to the White House now. Kate Bolduan keeping an eye on things there. Kate, of course, the president's facing criticism for how he is -- for what he is saying, and for what he's not saying at the same time. So what are we going to expect him to say anytime soon?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, T.J. Well, no word from the White House yet today. But the White House throughout since the elections really has not changed its position. This hands-off approach to the situation in Iran. Despite increasing pressure, and increasing calls for the president to do more to respond more forcefully to what has been happening in Iran, the election results as well as the demonstrations and protests that have followed, the White House continues to say they think they've struck the right balance here. Albeit a very delicate balance. Supporting the Iranian people while also not being sure not to interfere with essentially the domestic affairs of that country. President Obama made a point to say that he does not want the U.S. to be drawn in, to be made an issue in this political debate. Listen here to the president in an interview Friday with Harry Smith of "CBS News."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT OBAMA: The last thing that I want to do is to have the United States be a foil for those forces inside Iran who would love nothing better than to make this an argument about the United States. That's what they do. That's what we're already seeing. We shouldn't be playing into that. There should be no distractions from the fact that the Iranian people are seeking to let their voices be heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: At the same time the president said in the same interview, the world is watching here. So how will the White House and the president respond to an escalation in violence and the use of force in these demonstrations? We will have to see. But that could be the thing that could push the president to change his tone, to change his approach in this situation. T.J.?
HOLMES: Congress has an approach of their own it seems.
BOLDUAN: Yes, well, many members of Congress seem to feel very differently about this situation and disagreeing with the president and his approach. Many coming out to criticize the administration for what they call too muted of a response in this situation, both the House and the Senate overwhelmingly have non-binding resolutions, really a symbolic gesture of putting their support behind the Iranian people as well as condemning any violence that is occurring. Listen here to the number two republican in the House, Eric Cantor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ERIC CANTOR, (R) MINORITY WHIP: We are here because when America hears the call for freedom, we ought to answer. And all of us believe that America has a moral responsibility to speak out on behalf of the Iranian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Before that resolution, the White House says that they welcome it. They say if you look at the broader context of what the message is here, the resolution mirrors the administration's position in that it supports and respects the will of the Iranian people. As of what's going on today, we're reaching out to the White House to seek any comment and we'll let you know of course if we get it. T.J.?
HOLMES: We know you will. Kate Bolduan, we do appreciate you as always from the White House today. Thank you.
NGUYEN: With all the restrictions getting information out of Iran today, is obviously very difficult for us, but our Ivan Watson is at our Iran desk. He's monitoring all the social networking sites, also looking at the video that is coming in, watching the satellite feeds. What are you hearing from your sources, Ivan?
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Betty, it does appear that the security forces have succeeded in stopping the opposition from holding a street demonstration to denounce the results of last week's contested presidential elections. Of course, the opposition candidates, three out of four, accusing the government of cheating to allow Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the win. Let's see how they've managed to stop these protests. These are pictures that came to us from Twitter. We see a -- possibly a Basigi, militia man out in the street, with a weapon, with a club here, in civilian clothes. Here's another picture that we've seen. Riot police out in the streets.
People running. And this fits with the accounts that we've gotten from eyewitnesses from protesters themselves in the street, Betty, describing the security forces using tear gas, preventing people from coming out of the subway system to come to attend this rally. Using water canons, shooting guns up in the air and then simply clubbing the opposition protesters. And they often travel around, the security forces, on these motorcycles, and then club protesters, use that method to break them up. That's what we've seen in 1999 and 2003 in previous student protests.
Now, something you should know, something our viewers should know, Betty, is the demographic shape of Iran. Three-fifths of the society is under the age of 30. Let's take a look at this report to explain this society to our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON (voice-over): These are some of the children of Iran's Islamic Revolution. Some of the tens of millions of young Iranians all born after 1979. A youthful demographic boom that makes up more than half of the country's population.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every five persons you see around you, imagine three of them are under the age of 30.
WATSON: When Ayatollah Khomeini swept to power in 1979, he encouraged families to reproduce, and they did. The Iranian government then made education a priority, says Stanford University's Abbas Milani.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're literally all educated. One of the few good things this regime has done is that it has really eliminated illiteracy.
WATSON: But the Iranian economy can't cope with the hundreds of thousands of young Iranians who enter the workforce every year. Presidential candidates clashed over the economy before last week's controversial election. For years this oil-rich country has struggled with high inflation and double-digit unemployment. For many young Iranians, experts say, the economic future is bleak. The green wave of opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi tapped into some of these frustrations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unemployment in Iran is very high. Inflation is very high. Marriage is a big issue. They don't -- they can't afford to get married. Housing is an issue.
WATSON: Housing and jobs, basic demands for a generation of young Iranians that the country's leaders cannot afford to ignore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON: The hopes of these young Iranians have been crushed this week. And today one 24-year-old that we talked to, who tried to attend this protest, she said after being beaten back by the police, I don't want to live in this country anymore. Betty?
NGUYEN: OK, Ivan, thanks so much for that. We'll be checking in with you as well. So, do you have something to say about the situation in Iran? I know you've been watching it play out here on CNN. You can reach out to us via Facebook or our Twitter pages. You can also reach us at weekends@cnn.com. I want to take you right now really quickly to my Twitter page. Barkway says, "Violence is always on the shoulders of those who are violent and not on the shoulders of peaceful protesters. It's twisted logic." But what he's referring to is the supreme leader there in Iran who has said that the consequences of protests today will fall on the shoulders of Mousavi, the opposition leader. We also heard that again from state-run television today. So far we have not seen Mousavi, but we have heard thousands have been out in the streets only to be pushed back by armed policemen in riot gear. They have faced water canons, also tear gas. The situation continues in Iran today as protesters are taking to the street in defiance of what the supreme leader has said. We have continuing coverage of this.
HOLMES: His word is law in Iran. Protesters seem to be defying it again. What does this mean for Iran's supreme leader? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. What we are showing you is what we're at the mercy of in Iran right now. You're looking at state-run television there in Iran. These are the pictures we have to go on, because there has been a shut down of foreign press there in Iran. We've been monitoring these different stations there. A few times, I believe it's only been about three, Betty, at least that I can remember this morning, since we've been on since 5:00 a.m., that have come in and said anything about the demonstrations, the major demonstrations planned today for the opposition and opposition leaders in Iran. Not much being said. You see sports being covered. We're seeing movies playing. All kinds of other things. As they have been giving us information, that is all we have to go on right now. Because other media is not allowed to do any reporting in Iran right now.
NGUYEN: Iran's supreme leader has drawn the proverbial line in the sand with his threatened crackdown on opposition protesters.
HOLMES: We're going to turn to an expert now on Iran, someone we've been talking to this morning, Reva Bhalla, foreign policy analyst for Stratford, a private global intelligence company. She's back with us this morning. Thank you so much for being with us again.
REVA BHALLA, FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Sure thing.
NGUYEN: First thing I want to get from you, basically your reaction to what we are seeing and hearing, word on the street that protesters who have braved the warning from Iran's supreme leader to venture out. They are being faced with tear gas, water canons, and then there's also word of a bombing at a mausoleum. Obviously these folks have a lot that they're up against today. But obviously they've decided to take the courage and go out in the streets. What do you think about the violence that we've seen so far? Is it on par for what you thought they were going to face?
BHALLA: Yes, I think so. Remember, one of the key measures of a revolution is its response to repression and the tools of repression are being used now. If you want to take a very sober look at the situation, this is simply the state retaking control of the situation. It's really not surprising. Iran has a history of this. They're very experienced in this sort of thing. And if you look at the numbers, again, it's hard to gauge exactly how many have actually braved the violence so far. But it seems to be a lot smaller than what we've seen before. And we're not seeing additional groups join the protests. The same people who started the demonstrations days ago are the same people out on the streets today.
NGUYEN: Does that show you that they are heeding the warning from Iran's supreme leader?
BHALLA: Yes, again, you know the threat of violence has an amazing ability to keep people at home. That's what the state is using. Again, this is one fraction of the Iranian population. You still have plenty of people who legitimately support Ahmadinejad, particularly in the countryside, also in the urban areas, more pious population, poorer classes who do respect him as a leader. It's not that this is a mass revolution by any means.
NGUYEN: Not a mass revolution. But no doubt we're hearing that a few thousand have taken to the streets today. But if they are not able to assemble, which we haven't got confirmation of, but we have heard that they have been dispersed in many areas, if they are not able to assemble, what avenues do they have to push forward their idea of reform?
BHALLA: Not many options, unfortunately. They've done a good job of arresting the organizers, which I think has been pretty key in preventing these demonstrations from really mobilizing today. Beyond this, I think the supreme leader is going to be able to retake control of the situation. In the long run, of course, this content will blow up and then you're going to see down the line more pressure on the regime. Especially as more of these fishers among the clerical elite are coming to light. Still, it's nothing that the state can't handle right now. But if you're looking more long-term, this could be a building distraction for the clerical regime.
NGUYEN: What are you looking for specifically today as we watch things play out in Iran?
BHALLA: Well, a couple things. We're keeping an eye on the RIGC, the revolutionary guard, who they have control over the perimeter of Tehran. They have commanding control over the local law enforcement. So depending on how things get out of hand, whether or not they move in, like in 1999, that will be pretty significant and that would show the severity of these demonstrations. So far, though, it seems like they're breaking them up pretty well. Secondly, taking a look at the mausoleum shrine bombing earlier, the reported bombing, I think that was -- it definitely raised some suspicion, because yesterday the supreme leader specifically said demonstrations will be used for a target of terrorism. And then who would be blamed for it. I think today we have that answer. The state, regardless of who is behind this bombing, even if it were the state itself, is going to hold the protesters and organizers responsible for it. And use that to justify a more forceful crackdown.
NGUYEN: All right, Reva Bhalla, foreign policy expert with Stratford, thanks so much for your insight today. We do appreciate it.
BHALLA: Thank you.
NGUYEN: And tonight on CNN, Christiane Amanpour shares her firsthand look at worldwide reaction to the explosive election in Iran. "From the Streets of Iran," that's what it's called, it's tonight 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
HOLMES: The president, of course, walking a diplomatic tight rope on Iran. What he wants and what he wants to avoid. That is next with our Paul Steinhauser from D.C. stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Developments have been heating up quite a bit over the past two hours. Ivan Watson is over at our Iran desk, he's been monitoring events and new video coming out of Tehran. What's the latest that you're seeing? Ivan, do you have us? We can see you, we just can't hear you.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Don't have his microphone up. Hey Ivan, if you can hear us, your microphone is not up, not working. So let's get that worked out. It might be as simple as an on off switch, that happens every once in a while. So when we get Ivan back up we will certainly get back over to him.
NGUYEN: No doubt. In the meantime though, as tensions in Iran rise, the hard line Iranian government is accusing the Obama administration of quote, "provocative conduct." For President Obama it's a delicate balance act and CNN's Brian Todd has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Walking perhaps the most unsteady tightrope of his young presidency, Barack Obama finds the Iranian crisis one of the toughest to nuance. He's repeatedly said he doesn't want to be seen as meddling, but the Iranian government complains of just that, telling Swiss diplomats who handle U.S. business in Tehran that America is interfering in the election process. Others say the United States is not doing enough. A senior Israeli official tells CNN the administration's response is, quote, "Not strong." The Israelis have long pushed for a tougher line on Iran. But their statements give the current backlash against the president some critical mass, following challenges by some republicans in Congress.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I am frankly incredulous that anybody should say we should abandon our advocacy for free and fair elections anywhere in the world, much less Iran, which is ruled by Muslim clerics who are obviously extremists.
TODD: The White House also finds itself defending the president's comment that the difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi in terms of their actually policies may not be as great as has been advertised. Says one longtime Middle East observer --
DAVID MAKOVSKY, WASHINGTON INST. FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: There's clearly differences in the reform and I think he went a little too far to the edge and he can walk that back.
TODD: White house Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was asked to pin down what the president meant by that comment.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Regardless of the outcome of what we're seeing, the United States still has two principal national interests as it relates to the Islamic Republic of Iran. The state sponsorship of terror and the support of terror as well as their pursuit of a nuclear weapon.
TODD (on camera): On the overall criticism for not bringing more pressure to bear on the Iranian regime, another White House official told us the administration simply cannot be drawn too deeply into this post-election fight. It could empower the hard-liners in Iran, this official says, and could even be seen as a justification for a tougher crackdown. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right, let's head back over to our Iran desk. I believe we have him up now, our Ivan Watson, he's been keeping an eye on the latest. Are you with us now buddy?
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, my microphone is on now T.J.
HOLMES: All right.
WATSON: T.J. let me just tell you about this video that we've gotten from an i-Report contributor. It shows that despite the fact that Iranian authorities banned protestors from demonstrating in the streets today, they went ahead and did it. We show video, this was again from an iReport contributor, video coming in of people gathering in the streets, chanting, "Iran, Iran, we are proud of Iran." Chanting, "God is great" as well. And the contributor went on to tell us that these protestors that they were beaten back by police who used clubs, we've seen that the police, the security forces are out in mass in Tehran, that they've shut down the cellphone networks according to eyewitnesses. They've used tear gas, they've used water cannons, they've been firing bullets in the air and that they've been blocking the exits from the subway, blocking demonstrators who want to attend this rally from coming out of the subway. They've been actually turning people back.
Now another video, let's take a look at this, this was posted on You Tube. This shows perhaps what has been going on. We can't vet this, it's very difficult for us to tell, but here we see riot police, security forces, with their shields, right. One of them we can see in the corner here throwing what appears to be a rock and this camera angle is going to pan in a second as these security forces pull back, these people are throwing rocks at them, carrying sticks. And we've listened to the recording they're yelling in farcy, "Death to Khamenei." That's a big deal in this country. They're basically saying death to the supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the man who gave a long sermon at Friday prayers yesterday. And he said that Iran's contested controversial presidential elections, that there was no rigging, that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won that election by millions of votes. And he said these demonstrators, these protestors are breaking the law and they're going to be held accountable. So a very big deal to hear people breaking a very important taboo in Iran saying, "Death to the supreme leader." T.J.?
HOLMES: Can you, before we let you go, give us the latest on the blast that we've been hearing about over at the shrine to the former supreme leader? We had gotten word that maybe a couple people had been killed, what's the latest did you hear?
WATSON: This is all coming from Iranian state media. This is a report, and it's a big deal if it has in fact happened. We can't confirm it, because we're banned from going anywhere and reporting on the ground in Tehran, our journalists there, Reza Sayah. But basically Iran's Press TV says two people have been killed, and eight others wounded in a suicide bomb attack at the mausoleum to Ayatollah Rulahaah Khamenei, the father of the Islamic revolution of 1979. He's revered as a saint in Iran as an imam. And if in fact there has been a bombing of this sort, an attack like that at this mausoleum, it is going to infuriate millions and millions of Iranians. It's a very serious deal. T.J.?
HOLMES: Ivan Watson for us. We certainly appreciate you this morning, thank you so much, buddy.
NGUYEN: We want to take you now live to Washington, D.C. We are getting some pictures right now of the protest that is taking place right there. You can see many people holding signs. One says out with the dictator. The other stop the killings. A lot much people also wearing green sashes, scarves, some of them even have green tape over their mouths. Symbolism of what is occurring in Iran. The green color obviously the color of Mousavi's party. And this is, again, in Washington, D.C. where about 150 protesters have taken to the streets. What they're doing right now is they're walking along Wisconsin Avenue and they are headed to the White House.
Not letting the rain keep them away today. They are coming out in support of the protests that are taking place in Iran today. We are hearing that in fact thousands have taken to the streets in Iran. They are being pushed back by armed police and getting some support. On the U.S. side today, as you see Iranian-Americans, as well as just others out in the street in support of what is taking place in Iran by those protesting and those supporting the opposition party. We'll continue to follow this for you. HOLMES: Several cities here in the U.S., it's something today is a big day for protests and rallies and marches in Iran. The only ones we can show people are the ones happening in the U.S. because of the media blackout over in Iran. We'll turn to the president now, President Obama, a little bit cautious in his response to Iran. Not winning him any new support with Capitol Hill critics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: When Ronald Reagan went before the Brandenburg Gate, he did not say, Mr. Gorbachev, that wall is none of our business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: A little dramatic there maybe. Paul Steinhauser, our deputy political director, Paul, joining us from D.C. How loud is this going to get? You expect the president to get criticized on just about anything he does. But how big of a deal will this become for the president if this continues, and maybe he doesn't come out and take a stronger stance, or speak in support of the people at least on the street in Iran?
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: First of all, this criticism is not universal by all republicans. That was Mike Pence, you also heard Eric Cantor, T.J., he's the number two House republican saying very similar stuff yesterday and earlier this week. And even John McCain he has been on CNN earlier this week on "American Morning." Critical, but not all republicans are slamming the president over what they consider a way too muted response. I think the White House, you were talking to Kate Bolduan about this earlier this hour, the White House is really trying to walk a tightrope here.
You played some sound from the president from that interview with CBS yesterday. I think his response is starting to get a little stronger. He said, "I'm concerned that the government of Iran recognized that the world is watching." I think his language himself is starting to get a little stronger. But he was also asked about this criticism, T.J., and he told in that interview, he said listen, "I don't want to be seen as a foil here. We don't want the Iranians to blame us for meddling." But again, some republicans still have a problem with this.
HOLMES: Talking about republicans, but what about the public? Do they have a problem with what the president is doing so far?
STEINHAUSER: I wish we had some brand-new polls just on this, on Iran, but we don't. But take a look at this number, this is from CBS and the "New York Times", this was taken last week just as this crisis was starting. And you can see overall, on the question about foreign policy, a vast majority here, six in 10 Americans approve of how the president is handling foreign policy overall. Only a small minority there disapprove. Other polls T.J. show the same thing. So far, in his administration, most Americans are giving him a pretty good thumbs-up on foreign policy. And that is changing now as you've seen in some new polls when it comes to domestic policy. We don't have anything brand-new on Iran. We'll be taking a look at the latest polls and seeing. This weekend could be crucial though T.J. I think the White House is keeping a very close eye on the protests. And if there is violence, you may see a different language from this White House maybe starting next week. Maybe the White House will be moving a little bit closer to what some republicans and what some European leaders are now saying about Tehran.
HOLMES: All right, Paul Steinhauser, a force from D.C., a friend of our show here on CNN Saturday and Sunday morning, our deputy political director. Always good to see you, we appreciate you this morning.
STEINHAUSER: Thanks, T.J.
NGUYEN: We are following the developments in Iran right now. That includes new video coming in from our i-Reporters and reports also of a crackdown on attacks there and protesters in the streets. So we're watching it for you. We'll bring you the latest right after this break.
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NGUYEN: We continue to follow the latest developments on the streets of Tehran today. Breaking news out of Iran. Let's get you now to our Iran desk with Ivan Watson. He's been following all of it for us as well. What are you hearing Ivan?
WATSON: Betty, I just got an e-mail from one of the young men who tried to attend a protest, tried to gather, even though this protest was banned today by the Iranian security forces, by the Iranian authorities, and he described police forcing many young men to kneel on the ground as they searched them. We're going to go to Iranian State TV now, Betty. They are showing some important developments. Let's take a look at what Iranian State TV is showing. As we can see here, crowds in the streets. Briefly there we saw crowds in the streets being pushed back by the Iranian security forces. Those are the accounts we've been hearing all day today.
While we try to find some more of that information from Iranian State TV, I'm going to show you something that came to our i-Report site today. Look at this footage. Large numbers of people in the street, a fire burning, crowds gathered. It's difficult for us to confirm what day this was filmed, where exactly. But we have gotten other video like this. And some of this matches the descriptions we've gotten from eyewitnesses that we've been able to reach on the ground. And I have to add, Betty, part of why our hands are tied here is because of this message that was faxed to our team on the ground in Tehran earlier today by the Iranian authorities. It's from the Ministry of Culture, and it says the international media is barred from reporting any events in Iran unless they get prior permission from Iranian authorities. Our hands are tied there right now. We're relying on State TV, and these feeds coming from anonymous posters in many cases describing the events on the ground there. Betty?
NGUYEN: That was pretty compelling video, even though brief, where we saw people running along the streets there being pushed back by police in riot gear. Ivan, we'll be watching as well.
WATSON: Betty, let me just add one last thing. The crowd was chanting something very remarkable. In some of these videos we've heard them chant, "Death to Khamenei," that is the supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei. Also chanting, "I will kill whoever killed my brother." That's a chant that goes back to the Islamic Revolution of 1979. So some taboos being broken here criticizing the most important powerful man in the country.
NGUYEN: No doubt. If they're chanting, "Death to Iran's supreme leader," that obviously is a big turn of events today in Iran. And we know that you're watching at home. We've been on the air for the past six hours. Obviously you're watching with a lot of concern. We want to hear from you today. Go to our Facebook and Twitter pages and let us know what you're thinking. We're also getting some really good information on these different pages. Part of the social networking sites that allows people to speak freely. And a lot of it unconfirmed. But we are working our sources as well as developments are taking place at this hour in Iran. But we do want to hear from you and we'll read some of those responses on the air.
But in the meantime I want to talk with Iran expert Parag Khanna. He's in New York, he's senior research fellow at the New America Foundation. Also advised the Obama campaign on foreign policy. Let me get right to what we heard from Ivan Watson. How symbolic is it? How important is it in changing? Is it that we're hearing people on the streets of Iran chanting, "Death to Iran's supreme leader."
PARAG KHANNA, SENIOR FELLOW, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: It's obviously very symbolic, as is the explosion that happened apparently at the shrine of Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic and father of the revolution. So you're having a double symbolic rhetorical attack, really all the taboos are being broken, if you're attacking Khomeini and Khamenei in two different ways. This really does show that we've crossed the Rubicon. Obviously it's been a quiet day from our point of view because we haven't been able to see everything that's going on. But it shows that what happens today, tomorrow, the next day, clearly things have changed. The country will never be the same.
NGUYEN: Has this movement taken on a life of its own? I mean, we're seeing people, smaller numbers, granted, today, a little bit of video that we've been able to get out of Iran, but has it taken on a life of its own? Or is it still just about this election, just about getting a revote for Mousavi?
KHANNA: That's right, Betty. It has taken on a life of its own. Already a few days ago people started to say, this is no longer about the election, this is about a movement, this is about change, this is about redefining the relationship between the Islamic authorities, the supreme leader and the guardian council, the political secular authority, the presidency and the people. All of that now does have to be redefined no matter how this plays out. So absolutely, this has become a movement. This has changed from activism to an uprising. We saw activism over the past decade really at a higher or lower level. People have talked about 1999, 2003. Now this has moved into a full-scale uprising. And it's going to continue let's remember, the security guards are not going to be able to suppress this day in and day out for weeks and months. So long as the people are willing to go out, we are going to see a shift in the political landscape undoubtedly.
NGUYEN: So are you saying that this is just the beginning? Are you saying that after today, where there are these scheduled protests that are supposed to take place, and people have not been showing up in the large numbers that may have been expected, because they've been pushed back by armed police, that, look, this is not over? Yeah, you may not see the numbers that we've seen this past week, but it's only just begun?
KHANNA: Again, that is exactly right, Betty. You've already had a number of analysts pointing out that Mir Hossein Mousavi was really an excuse in a way for people to come out and demonstrate their dissatisfaction with he regime and with the state of affairs in the country more generally. Even though he may not be all that visible today, you still see people coming out. So again, this is a mass movement. The younger people, this Facebook or Twitter generation, in other words most of the population that's under the age of 30, they are going to start keep coming out no matter who their sort of leader is. They don't necessarily need one. You can have a leader-less mass movement. That's what this modern communication technology, such as Twitter, really facilitates.
NGUYEN: But Parag, if you don't have a leader, how do you go about creating effective change? There are a lot of the people in the streets, a lot of people wanting different things, you have women wanting more freedom there, you have some people wanting a free vote, you've got others wanting a revote. How do you create effective change if you've got people on the streets with different missions?
KHANNA: Mousavi is most definitely the leader, don't get me wrong. But whatever happens to him in the coming weeks, whether he decides to reconcile somehow with the supreme leader, which evidently he has no intention of doing, or if someone else comes in, in his place and decides to be the sort of figurehead for this movement, you are going to see that passion and energy probably persist. Again, this is very different from 1999 and 2003. You have Rhavsanjani(ph), and you have Mir Hossein Mousavi and you have other leading figures in the country who are siding with the opposition and who are putting themselves out there on the street with them. You have multiple people who can play that role. The people are going to support them, but they also are supporting this change which they themselves embody. I think again it's really important to realize that this is a generational conflict going on.
NGUYEN: Parag Khanna, always great information from you with the New America Foundation. We do appreciate it today. Also the author of the book, "The Second World Empires and Influence in the New Global Order." Thank you so much.
KHANNA: Thank you.
HOLMES: We want to continue this conversation with Badi Badiozamani an author-expert on Iran. What do you make of some of these chants we have been hearing, "Death to Khamenei?" Does that surprise you to hear people in the streets chanting, "Death to the supreme leader?"
BADI BADIOZAMANI, AUTHOR, SCHOLAR AND IRAN EXPERT: Yes, it did. It is taboo, the supreme leader you call for his death? It's amazing and it's ironic in a way, too. For 30 years the supreme leader and the present supreme leader who used to be the president kept saying "Death to America" among his followers. Now people are saying, "Death to Khamenei." My bad Khamenei. They chanted it at least three times. That is very surprising because it never happened before as far as I'm concerned.
HOLMES: The pictures we are seeing here from, I believe it's from Friday, the sermon we saw, and we understood some of the chants coming out of this were actually, "Death to America," "Death to Britain." The video we were seeing earlier and hearing this on some of these reports we were getting, are these just isolated pockets or do you think this could be a wider movement? That's pretty extreme to hear something like that. It's certainly out of the ordinary, as you say, but is this an isolated pocket of something we were seeing?
BADIOZAMANI: Doesn't sound like it.
HOLMES: Really?
BADIOZAMANI: Doesn't sound like it. It seems to be the beginning of breaking all the standards, all the taboos and going actually for a new bright day. Who knows?
HOLMES: Well, that then in turn, the supreme leader came out yesterday. Will he continue to crack down further -- of course he is going to hear about that in some way form of fashion, but will this cause him to crack down even further?
BADIOZAMANI: If he can.
HOLMES: If he can.
BADIOZAMANI: If he can. Remember, we were talking earlier about the rift between two groups within the establishment. We don't know, we haven't heard anything again from Mr. (INAUDIBLE). And his cabinet. So it's very curious. The second curious thing is that we still haven't seen any pictures from the disruption or the bomb or the incident at the mausoleum.
HOLMES: And what does that tell you that we haven't seen it yet? I guess it's been about an hour since we've gotten those reports at least then?
BADIOZAMANI: It's very curious. The government, the agencies, could have gotten there just like that. They haven't. There is a purpose behind that. I don't know. Again, that raises the question, did this really happen or it was just part of their disinformation in this mind game of no reports other than just some phrases. No details about what really happened there. No picture, no video. That's very curious.
HOLMES: Where is and how much broad public support does the supreme leader have, Khomenei? We've been seeing the opposition side out in the street, but we don't seem to see those supporting supreme leader. Of course they are still out there. How big is his swath of support out there in the public?
BADIOZAMANI: Well, I can't say his personally, his support. Those who support him are the ones who support the system. At least 20 percent, 25 percent of the people in the Islamic Republic of Iran are supporters of the regime and establishment. It's not just fractions. It's a big number probably, 15, 20 million. But on the other hand you have the opposition, probably 30, 40 million. Both sides are very strong. Like I said before, very intelligent people and it appears to be at war with each other.
HOLMES: Badi Badiozamani, I sure do appreciate you being here. I don't think we are done with you yet. We appreciate you being with us throughout the morning, but please do stick around. Thank you so much.
BADIOZAMANI: Absolutely.
NGUYEN: Stick around throughout the evening too because on CNN this weekend, Christiane Amanpour shares her first hand look as well as worldwide reaction to the explosive election in Iran, "From the Streets of Iran" tonight, 7:00 Eastern on CNN.
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NGUYEN: We, of course, are monitoring the media in Iran. Since there has been a blackout for foreign journalists, we can't get our own live reports out of there so we have to monitor what they're putting on the air.
HOLMES: What we've seen, is not a whole lot of coverage of the elections there in Iran. If you were watching TV in Iran today, it would look like nothing was going on in the streets. But we know that is not the case. There have been some protests. Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people who have taken to the streets of Iran, according to eyewitnesses. People we've talked to on the phone there. We've also gotten reports, pictures from social networking sites, some i- Reports, as well. That is what we are at the mercy of because we don't have our own people there who are able to report because of the blackouts and restrictions they've put on the foreign press.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. We are trying to bring you the information as best as we can. This is another bit that we want to tell you about. He is the man behind the curtain in Iran. We are talking about the supreme leader. But there is a man behind the title.
HOLMES: He is Ayatollah Khamenei, 70 years old, foot soldier in the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Iran's president during the '80s. Here now with more on this man, CNN's Ivan Watson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, for 20 years he's been Iran's supreme religious leader, the most powerful man in the country. According to the constitution, Khamenei is the commander of the armed forces and top judicial official in the country, with the power to dismiss Iran's elected president. Iran has only had one other supreme leader, Ayatollah Rubala(ph) Khamenei. When he died in 1989, the Iranian leadership quickly changed the constitution to pave the way for Khamenei to become his successor. Says Stanford University's Abbas Milani.
ABBAS MILANI, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: In the initial constitution you needed to be an ayatollah. Mr. Khamenei is in no way an ayatollah. He's a low level cleric.
WATSON: Khamenei started out his career as a political dissident frequently imprisoned by the shah of Iran. In 1981 Khamenei narrowly survived an assassin's bomb hidden in a tape recorder. The attack left his right arm paralyzed to this day. Today it is a taboo to defy Iran's supreme leader. It is the biggest challenge to the supreme leader's 20-year hold on power.
