Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Jackson Death Investigation Begins
Aired June 26, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via telephone): We have a personal doctor here with him, sir, but he's not responding to anything. He's not responding to the CPR or anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Well we'll, we're on our way. If you're doing CPR and instructed by a doctor, you're in a higher authority than me. Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor's been the only one here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the doctor saw what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doctor, did you see what happened, sir? Sir, he just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're on our way.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: We're listening to 911 tapes that were released not too long ago. These are the tapes where someone has called and told the dispatch that they need an ambulance. They've got someone who is not breathing. You'll notice he did not use Michael Jackson's name, but the interesting part is the discussion about a doctor who was attempting to resuscitate or revive Michael Jackson, a doctor who was in the room.
The final moments in the life of a legend, desperate attempts to save Michael Jackson, now the uncomfortable questions as to why Jackson died. I'm Ali Velshi, here for Rick Sanchez. We're waiting for a statement from the Los Angeles County coroner on the Michael Jackson autopsy. A few hours ago, a spokesman announced that results of the toxicology tests won't be known for weeks. But there are some ominous clues already.
Police have towed a car from the home where Jackson was staying. A spokesman has said it may contain medications that are important to the death investigation. The car was being used by a doctor whose whereabouts are right now unknown. Police have spoken to this doctor, and now they are trying to find him.
We also have this. It's just in from Jackson's former attorney, who licensed Jackson's demise to that of Anna Nicole Smith and speaks of unnamed enablers. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRIAN OXMAN, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: He had overmedication. And it was a serious problem. And the exact people who were doing this, I'm not going to point any fingers. All I know is that I had warned that this was a problem. And this is my worst fear. It is a nightmare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right, once again we are awaiting information from the L.A. County coroner.
Right now, we turn to Drew Griffin of our Special Investigations Unit. He has got some new information for us -- Drew.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: The doctor, who did speak briefly with detectives, apparently is going to speak with the LAPD again. He is not missing in action.
The Los Angeles Police Department tells me they fully expect to interview him about what happened there.
VELSHI: Yes.
GRIFFIN: It turns out this was a cardiologist based in Texas, licensed in -- excuse me -- based in Nevada, licensed in Texas, California. He may actually have been living with Michael Jackson at the time and treating him. So that's why he was there at the time and obviously was attending him when he died.
VELSHI: Right. So, let's understand this.
This car that's been towed, from what I understand, this was a car that was being used by the doctor. It wasn't his -- it wasn't registered to him.
GRIFFIN: This was the -- this is the mystery. Why tow the car?
VELSHI: Right.
GRIFFIN: Not just towed, impounded. The LAPD is saying, this car was impounded because it may have, as you said, information or drugs inside that is pertinent to the investigation. This was owned by the doctor's sister out of Texas.
And I don't know the status of this car yet. And police are not tell me where it has been taken or what they hope to find inside or whether or not, Ali, quite frankly, it has been returned back to the doctor.
VELSHI: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Now, the doctor did speak with detectives last night, as we said.
VELSHI: Yes.
GRIFFIN: The doctor may have gone with the entourage to the hospital, but it really doesn't explain...
VELSHI: So, that could explain why the car is there and he is not.
GRIFFIN: Yes. But why didn't the doctor come back and pick up his car?
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: All right, let's listen to this tape again, because the tape is so key to understanding what's going on. This is the 911 tape that has been just released. Listen to this
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. I need to -- I need an ambulance as soon as possible, sir.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Sir, what's your address?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 100 Carolwood Drive, Los Angeles, California, 90077.
911 OPERATOR: You said Carolwood?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carolwood Drive, yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, what's the phone number your calling from?
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: (inaudible) exactly what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, oh, I have a -- we have a gentleman here that needs help and he's not breathing. He's not breathing, and we need to -- we're trying to pump him, but he's not...
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK. How old is he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's 50 years old, sir.
911 OPERATOR: Fifty? OK. He's unconscious? He's not breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he's not breathing, sir.
911 OPERATOR: OK, and he's not conscious either?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not conscious, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. Do you have him -- is he on the floor? Where is he at right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's on the bed sir. He's on the bed.
911 OPERATOR: OK, let's get him on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: OK, let's get him down to the floor. I'm going to help you with CPR right now, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: We're on our way there. We're on our way. I'm going to do what I can to help you over the phone. We're already on our way. Did anybody see him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we have a personal doctor here with him, sir.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, you have a doctor there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but he's not responding to anything. So, no -- no, he's not responding to CPR or anything, sir.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, OK. Well, we're on our way there. If your guy's doing CPR -- instructed by a doctor, he's a higher authority than me, and he's there on scene. Did anybody witness what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir. The doctor's been the only one here.
911 OPERATOR: OK, so did the doctor see what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doctor, did you see what happened, sir?
Sir, if you -- if you can please ...
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: We're on our way. We're on our way. I'm just -- I'm just passing these questions onto my -- our paramedics while they're on their way there, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. He's pumping. He's pumping his chest, but he's not responding to anything sir. Please...
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK. We're on our way. We're less than a mile away. And we will be there shortly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Thank you.
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir. Call us back if you need any help. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right, so some fascinating points that we may not have known before this. And that is that there was a doctor in the room who was with Michael Jackson attempting to revive him.
The -- the dispatcher said if there's a doctor present, that outranks him. And the doctor was apparently there. We are not yet clear on where the doctor went, why the car that he was using was still at the property, the car that the police impounded.
But, as Drew has just reported, the doctor is now back in touch with police and will be meeting with detectives.
Let's go Don Lemon in Los Angeles. Also with us is famed pathologist Cyril Wecht in Stamford, Connecticut.
Dr. Wecht, we will get to you in a minute. Let's go to Don.
What do you have on this, Don?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It's very interesting. If you listen to it, Ali, that answers your question about why they want -- at least one question about why they want to talk to this doctor.
If they said, did anybody witness this? And the guys says, yes. The doctor is here. He asked the doctor, did you witness it? And he goes, yes.
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: So I'm sure, Ali, that if there any way that this will be used or if it does go to court in any sort of way, this is going to be used as evidence.
The doctor was there. The doctor knows what what's going on. According to Michael Jackson's own brother, the -- the -- he had called or someone from the family had called the night before saying that Michael wasn't feeling well and asked the doctor to come over.
I'm not sure if the doctor came that night, but he did eventually come over the next morning, and that's when they found him unresponsive. So, I'm just getting -- hang on, Ali.
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: I'm getting some information here, because we're awaiting a press conference. And I'm trying to listen here.
They're in a conference with the family is what I'm hearing. They are going to be back here by 1:30 is what I'm being told. And -- but we are -- and what everyone is being told...
VELSHI: So, 90 minutes away from -- 80, 90 minutes from now.
LEMON: Yes, but I he's saying they're not going to be here. But I think they're in a conference with the family. Not sure if it's by phone or what have you.
VELSHI: Right.
LEMON: I spoke to a family representative no more than 10 minutes ago, just a couple minutes before my live shot here. And he said that the family was in a family conference.
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: And he wanted to try to get me some information that I was asking about. And, so, apparently, they were in a conference talking to -- talking to the coroner.
Hey, let's listen. I think we have a microphone over there. And let's listen to what this guy saying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they will have the official conference about 1:30, OK?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
QUESTION: Where is the family? Where are they meeting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the coroner's update for you right now.
QUESTION: The family is in there right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, the family is not at this location. The coroner is meeting with the family at an undisclosed location. OK?
LEMON: All right. So, Ali...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The coroner will be here to have a conference at 1:30.
VELSHI: OK. So, 1:30 Pacific time, 3:30 Eastern time -- 4:30 Eastern time.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Yes. So, there you go. So, apparently, the coroner is meeting with the family now. That's what that family meeting is about.
So, I would imagine they're about to release something or tell us something, if they're saying they're going to come here at 1:30. But, again, Ali, you know this and I'm sure Dr. Wecht will tell you the same thing, six to eight weeks for those toxicology reports.
VELSHI: Right.
LEMON: And then they're going to -- they're going to take their time with this autopsy, because they want to get right.
(CROSSTALK) VELSHI: That's right.
Dr. Wecht, let's bring you in on that point, six to eight weeks for the toxicology reports, but, really, the history, even for a pathologist, the history, does that play a role for you, or do -- are they just looking at the body and the science?
If they can get ahold of this doctor and find out what happened in the moments leading up to that 911 call, would that help in determining how he died?
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Assuming that the autopsy was negative in ruling out such things as a heart attack, a cerebral hemorrhage and other pathological entities of that nature that can produce sudden death, then this obviously is going to prove to be a drug-related death.
I predict that that's what it will be. They will have actually results next week more than preliminarily. They will know, pretty much. But they're thought going release those results for some time. They are going to want to gets the medical records, talk with all of the physicians who have treated him, find out what drugs were prescribed, what was in the house and so on, and in particular certainly the doctor who was called and who apparently was there when the medics arrived.
One of the fascinating things about this case is that, as we are now learning, he wasn't feeling well the night before. The doctor was called. If the doctor just got there yesterday -- and I'm not criticizing him, but I will point out that, when you have someone who is critically ill, you call 911 or you take the person to the hospital. They are much more equipped than a private physician.
They have got all the armamentarium for cardiopulmonary resuscitation. This is where a person belongs. And the private physician is not really the person to be called to come to the home. That's the tragedy. And it may turn out, you will see, that, if that had been done, had the emergency people been called first, then his life might have been saved.
VELSHI: Quite remarkable, though, because, for most of us laypeople, we think having a doctor in the room is probably about the safest way you can go.
Drew, what do you think?
GRIFFIN: Yes. I think -- well, of course, I think the doctor is right on all this, Dr. Cyril Wecht.
Doctor, I would like to ask you, though, they're still calling this a death investigation, and not a criminal investigation.
WECHT: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And, really, the main reason is because that treating physician apparently did not sign off on this death as, I'm in care of this person. I am going to tell you how he was being treated, what he was being treated for, and therefore I am going to fill in the cause of death as being, what, heart-related or cardiac arrest or whatever.
That apparently didn't happen. Is that strange?
WECHT: Well, no.
He was not in a position to write a death certificate, assuming that Michael Jackson was not suffering from some serious illness. As far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, nobody ever said that he had heart disease or that he had hypertension or that he was a diabetic or that he had any other kind of problem which could lead to a catastrophic result.
But we do know that he was taking drugs. And I have been told that he was injecting himself with Demerol. I would love to know what doctor in his right mind would prescribe Demerol injections for somebody to be self-administered. Demerol is a powerful analgesic. It is used with great caution even in a hospital setting by doctors because it is known to produce respiratory depression.
And it is a drug for serious, severe pain. It's not like aspirin or ibuprofen or Tylenol. It's something if you got real bad pain. And if you got real bad pain and it's not getting better, then you belong in a hospital.
So, something is wrong here. As far as criminality is concerned, what may play out, I don't know. Down the road is doctors who did prescribe indiscriminately and so on, such as what has been going on now with Anna Nicole Smith that you folks out there know a great deal about.
But, right now, it looks to me like this is a tragic accidental death, multiple drugs, I predict, more than just one, and something that is killing somebody every hour, if not every minute, in America. But we only come to learn about them when they involved Anna Nicole Smith, or Heath Ledger or Michael Jackson.
But everywhere in America, somebody is taking two, three, four drugs, sometimes...
VELSHI: And you mean prescription drugs. You're talking about prescription drugs. You talking about legal stuff.
WECHT: Oh, yes, yes, exactly, not the heroin shoot them up in the back alley, right. Exactly.
VELSHI: Every hour, we're getting closer to getting a little more information.
Don Lemon is right on top of the situation in L.A.
What have you got, Don?
LEMON: Hey, I want to ask -- I want to ask Dr. Cyril Wecht something, because that whole thing about Demerol, really, that has not been confirmed, unless he knows something.
And I asked the assistant coroner about that just a couple hours ago. And I asked him if he had heard that or if he had maybe seen that by a cursory example of Michael Jackson. And he said, I have only heard that through the media.
So, officially, I don't know if that's necessarily the case. But certainly there are reports that that is out there.
Also, Doctor, if you can respond to just back in the spring, apparently, he got a clean bill of health from a doctor, so that he could get insurance to do this entire tour that he was -- he was about to do.
WECHT: Yes. And the insurance policy is going to play out here, I will bet you...
VELSHI: Yes.
WECHT: ... because it may call for double indemnity accidental death. It may call for no payment if it's a suicide.
VELSHI: Yes.
WECHT: And here you may get into a real legal argument here...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: And not just with his estate, but with all those people who bought tickets to all those concerts.
WECHT: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: The determination of death may have some impact on how the concert promoter gets paid and whether they're able to pay everybody back.
WECHT: That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Eighty-five million, $85 that they're going to have to give back so far, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
WECHT: These are going to be the real problems here.
Demerol or any of these other drugs that can lead to death cannot be diagnosed, understand, visually at the autopsy table.
VELSHI: Yes.
WECHT: You can only rule out things that do cause death. And they will do further ruling out by microscopic study to make sure there's no inflammation of the heart or anything like that, which is quite subtle and may not be perceived, except microscopically.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Dr. Wecht, you make a very -- you make a very interesting point, in that the silver lining around this is that it is only with some of these high-profile deaths that we may learn things particularly about prescription drugs, if they have played a role in this at all. And we do not have any confirmation, as Don said, that they have, but the effect that has on people when we don't have these famous cases.
Dr. Cyril Wecht, thank you very much for being with us.
WECHT: Thank you.
VELSHI: Don, we will of course be checking in with you constantly as you get updates.
LEMON: OK.
VELSHI: We're expecting something from the L.A. coroner.
And, Drew Griffin, thank you. You're staying on this situation with respect to the doctor and where he is and the conversations that he's having with detectives.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: We will continue on this story.
Michael Jackson made an incredible amount of money during his career, but, by most accounts, he was broke when he died. What happened to all his millions?
And South Carolina Governor -- South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford moves to the next stop on his apology tour. Today's stop was his cabinet. We will show you how it went.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right, let's take a look at what's coming in on MySpace and Twitter.
On Rick's MySpace account, this comment: "It seems people on here don't appreciate the impact Michael Jackson had on the music industry. I agree he fell off his rocker, but that does not change the fact that he's the most influential artist on the music industry in the last 40- odd years or so."
We have got a lot of comments on both of those lines.
Let's go over to Twitter and see what it says. We were listening to that 911 tape. This is in response to that. "Am I the only one who was thinking why didn't they say on the 911 tapes that it was Michael Jackson who was in need of help?"
And when you listen to those tapes, it's very clear that the person who was talking to the dispatcher or the person at the other end on the 911 call did not say Michael Jackson's name at all. He gave the address, gave the zip code, said they needed an ambulance, but did not say Michael Jackson's name at all.
Let's take a look at the arc of Michael Jackson's life and his career. Never mind the impact on the world music scene. Nobody's ever going deny that no entertainment empire could make money like the one figureheaded by Michael Jackson.
At times, he was staggering wealthy. At times, the wolf was at his door. And, of course, at both times, it depends who you talk to. Question, how to unravel the Michael Jackson fortune and how long will the fight go on over who gets what?
I'm joined in a second by Ethan Smith from "The Wall Street Journal." He writes about music for "The Wall Street Journal."
But, first, what is Michael Jackson worth, who has a stake in it?
Watch this report from CNN's Jim Boulden.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How much was the king of pop worth?
Well, "Forbes" magazine estimated in 2002 that Michael Jackson was worth $350 million. But, during his lifetime, it's believed Jackson earned hundreds of millions more. That came from touring, from record-breaking album sales, from a $65 million record deal with Sony signed in 1991.
He also pioneered sponsorship deals, tying pop music to top corporate brands like Pepsi. But it was his shrewd purchase in 1985 of ATV Music Publishing for just under $50 million that made Jackson a businessman. ATV gave him the publishing rights to more than 250 Beatles songs and a steady multimillion-dollar income.
MARK SUTHERLAND, "BILLBOARD": At the time, probably people didn't realize how valuable that parts of the music industry publishing was going to be. He was ahead of the game on that one. And he -- and he got the most valuable (INAUDIBLE) there is.
BOULDEN: In 1995, Jackson sold half of ATV to Sony to help pay for his lavish lifestyle.
Today, Sony ATV has expanded its music library and could be worth around $1 billion. Jackson had reportedly used ATV as collateral for two loans totaling more than $200 million. He then had to get help from private equity to refinance those loans. Jackson also faced a number of lawsuits over concerts and soured business deals, but, through it all, he kept on spending. SIMON ASTAIRE, MEDIA ADVISER TO CELEBRITIES: You can't do that. That is the reality of spending and saving and spending and saving. It doesn't matter how rich you are. You can't behave in that way.
BOULDEN: Jackson recently lost control of his beloved Neverland Ranch. It's now in the hands of a private real estate investment firm.
"The Wall Street Journal" estimates Jackson died up to a half- billion dollars in debt. His upcoming tour in London would have certainly cut that debt down. Now creditors are expected to focus their attention on the publishing rights and the huge increase in record sales after his death. So, unlike the Elvis Presley estate, which firmly controls the late singer's lucrative assets, it's unclear what will be left to Jackson's heirs. And a long and complicated unwinding of the king of pop's accounts is about to begin.
Jim Boulden, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: OK, a good simplification of what is going on in a very complicated estate.
Ethan Smith is here. He's a music reporter with "The Wall Street Journal."
Ethan...
ETHAN SMITH, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Hi.
VELSHI: ... is Michael Jackson half-a-billion dollars in debt?
SMITH: Yes, he -- he had that much debt. What's unclear is whether the value of all of his assets the report described exceeds that.
And it seems like there's a pretty good chance the value does. It's unclear at this point by how much.
VELSHI: So, he still owns that; he still has that publishing business, the royalties from the -- half of the publishing company that he had?
SMITH: That's right. He still owns 50 percent of Sony ATV. And he also owned another company called Mijac that controls all his own songs.
VELSHI: He stood to lose that a few years ago. It was very dangerous. He had loans coming due, and he was going to lose that. He had to put it up as collateral. But is it -- it is now part of the estate free and clear, as far as you know?
SMITH: Well, no. There is still at least $300 million in debt backed by the Sony ATV stake alone and another $80 or $90 million backed by Mijac. And so, no, it will -- and some other loans, too. It will take some time to figure out exactly what that's all worth.
VELSHI: That's an interesting story, because if -- one can see the value in that sort of investment for the long term, but if somebody has got to settle debts, you may not be -- people may not be keen in seeing the value of it long term if they want their debts paid.
Let's go back a little bit. Michael Jackson has been in financial trouble for some time. And a lot of people point back to the fact that he was a child star who made a lot of money and never, ever learned how to manage that money and had other people doing that for him.
SMITH: That's -- that's -- that's right.
He cycled through a stream of advisers over the years, some very reputable and on the up and up, some less so. And he -- he would drift away from the ones basically who gave him bad news and told him what he didn't want to hear. And that created a cycle that was very problematic for his finances.
VELSHI: And then he's legendary for the amount of money he could spend. Jim Boulden touched on some of it, but always had an entourage, I mean, the Neverland Ranch. His spending was -- as much as this man earned, his spending was, by many standards, ridiculous.
SMITH: Yes.
Neverland Ranch, he paid about $19 million for in 1987. But at the peak of the kind of frenzy there with all the carnival rides, he may have been spending as much as $10 million a year to maintain it. That's just his home. He had helicopter landing pads there and...
VELSHI: Yes.
SMITH: Yes. He's -- he's...
VELSHI: And then -- and then -- so, despite the spending, he got into this legal battle. That really wiped out any money he had. And this tour was going to be where he made it back or at least -- a lot of people think he would have made a lot of money on this tour.
SMITH: That's right.
The London part -- the London shows, had he pulled them all off, probably would have made him around $50 million, we think. There was an option on the table to extend the tour for three or three-and-a- half years all over the world.
VELSHI: Yes. And new record sales.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: That could have made a total $400 million.
(CROSSTALK) SMITH: However, the likelihood that that ever was going to happen is not strong, obviously.
VELSHI: All right.
This mystery continues to unravel. Thanks very much, Ethan.
Ethan Smith is a reporter with "The Wall Street Journal."
Listen, as a big a star, Michael Jackson was in United States -- as big a star as he was in the United States, he might have been more popular overseas. We will look at how the king of pop is being remembered around the world.
And how many times you can say you're sorry? South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford apparently hasn't reached his limit. His latest "I'm sorry" is coming up right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Not a lot of activity on the stock market there.
The center of the Michael Jackson universe is Los Angeles today. That's where he died. But word of his death spread very fast across the globe. There are few places on Earth where the two words "Michael Jackson" are not common names.
Look at these pictures, people in every part of the world stopping in their tracks at the news.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well we've come to the U.S. Embassy here in Moscow where this makeshift memorial has been set up to commemorate the late Michael Jackson. It's just a few bunches of flowers, a few photographs and posters, it's pretty small. But make no mistake, Michael Jackson was a huge phenomenon in this country. Back in the 1980s at the height of his pop career, his albums were often traded on the black market after they were smuggled in from the West. His music really crossed the front lines of the Cold War. He gave a concert in this country shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union and has been back a number of times since then. So I think that Michael Jackson, despite the controversies that have dogged his career over the past several years, in Russia at least, he'll be remembered with affection.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Today at work we were talking about what kind of a person he was. And everyone said that there was only one Michael. His appearance, the way he acted. Because of that and his song, I think he'll be remembered for a long time, forever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think he's an idol for some people and I think people probably worship him like they did Elvis Presley.
CHANCE: Well, there you have it, some voices of Moscovites remembering Michael Jackson, a big star globally, including here in Russia. Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNY SANFORD, WIFE OF GOV. MARK SANFORD: His career is not a concern of mine. He's going to have to worry about that and I'm worried about my family and the character of my children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about him going back to Columbia?
SANFORD: What about going back to Columbia? Me with my family. Right now we're going out on a boat. I'm not going to tell you what we talked about. Y'all have a good time. I wish we had room on the boat for y'all, but we do not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: That's Jenny Sanford, she's the wife of the wayward governor of South Carolina. A curbside conversation with reporters about the state of the couple's marriage. Fast forward now. This is the state capitol just a couple of hours ago, the governor's first public appearance since Wednesday when he admitted to sneaking down to Argentina to see a mistress. At this cabinet meeting that you're seeing, Sanford apologized for disappearing and for meeting with the mistress on an earlier trip to Argentina for which he's now agreed to reimburse the state of South Carolina.
Joining me from Columbia, Republican State Senator Jake Knotts. Jake Knotts has joined us just the other day when this news first broke. Today, Senator Knotts has called for an independent probe into the governor's activities. Senator, thank you for being back with us. You were on the program on Wednesday and you seemed to be expressing some sympathy for the governor. You had heard him speak. You felt very bad for him. Now you're calling for an investigation. What's changed?
JAKE KNOTTS (R), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: What's changed is the fact is the governor knows everything about this and every day something else pops up that's embarrassing to the state of South Carolina. And now the fact that taxpayers paid for him to rendezvous with his mistress down in South America is non-excusable. I'm a watch dog for the taxpayers' money and I can't explain to my people how the governor can take money and rendezvous with his mistress and then when he gets caught, pay it back. It's like a bank robber saying, hey, give me your money and then if they happen to catch him, well, you know, I'll pay it back and everything will be OK. That's not OK.
VELSHI: So needless to say, it's fair to say your sympathy has evaporated?
KNOTTS: Yes, my sympathy -- I forgive him for whatever he wants me to forgive him for so he can correct things with his family. He's got a lovely wife and adorable children. And that's something he should be focusing in on. She should not stand in the way. He immediately resigned from the Republican National Governors Committee so he wouldn't bring embarrassment to them, but he's willing to try to stay in office to bring embarrassment to the people of South Carolina and now spending the money, the taxpayers dollars.
VELSHI: Well, I asked you about this on Wednesday. I asked you specifically, should he resign as governor, and you said that's up to him. At this point it sounds like you're saying -- would you take his resignation, do you think that would satisfy you?
KNOTTS: I would take his resignation in a heartbeat so that South Carolina can move forward and help South Carolina with a person in that position regardless who it is, that can help us with our unemployment stuff and that we wouldn't have to look over his shoulder to make sure that our tax dollars aren't being misspent.
See, the focus -- what they're trying -- the governor is trying to spin is he's apologizing for his misconduct with his marital affair. But that's not the issue. The issue is far more broader than that. The governor left South Carolina with no one at the helm for a period of at least five days.
If a state employee did that with no notification to their supervisor where they were, they would be fired. Now, is this a double standard? Now the thing is again, the money that the taxpayers send to the state is not to be used for rendezvousing by the governor with his mistress. The other thing is you can't take a sled car if you're not authorized to drive it.
VELSHI: Yes, sled is the law enforcement, the South Carolina law enforcement.
KNOTTS: Law enforcement car. It was car that was equipped with blue lights.
VELSHI: Senator, thank you for joining us again. This conversation I'm sure is going to continue. Senator Jake Knotts from South Carolina.
KNOTTS: And I'd like to just add that we need to keep the focus on the main issue, not his marital affairs.
VELSHI: Well, the main issue is that he left the state and used taxpayer money. Is that what you're saying?
KNOTTS: That's exactly, the taxpayer's money. Thank you.
VELSHI: Thank you. Michael Jackson's later life was as much about courtrooms as it was about music. We'll be talking about that with Ashleigh Banfield. She'll join us in just a moment. You can see her right there. But coming up next, the Jena 6 commanded front page coverage and now there's some resolution.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Developments today in the Jena 6 case. They are the half dozen teenagers originally charged with attempted murder in the beating of a classmate in 2006. This was the scene after the verdicts. You will remember this, an enormous civil rights outpouring against what marchers saw as excessive charges. The victim was white, the defendants were black. Today, five defendants entered pleas of no contest to misdemeanor simple battery and got seven days probation. Sixth defendant Mychal Bell pled guilty in 2007 to second degree battery. He got an 18-month prison sentence.
OK, when we come back, Ashleigh Banfield will talk about the King of Pop's legal problems and there were many of them. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: OK, let's take a look at what's going out outside the hospital -- or where Michael Jackson is having his autopsy in L.A. Don Lemon is there. In about 45 minutes or so, we're expecting -- that looks like Don Lemon's shoulder. We're expecting a press conference from the coroner, at least that's what we've been told will be happening. The coroner apparently talking to Michael Jackson's family right now.
Listen, let's just talk about what's happening with Michael Jackson's music. Amazon.com saying they've sold out as of Thursday night within minutes of everything having to do with Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5, sold out of everything -- 60 percent about of Amazon's CD orders on Thursday were for Michael Jackson related music. Barnes & Noble saying they've largely sold out of everything. All of Amazon's best sellers now are Michael Jackson related tunes. Eight of the 10 top albums on iTunes are Michael Jackson related or Jackson 5 material. There's a lot of digital purchases because they're out of CDs and DVDs. Amazon also saying most DVDs that have anything to do with Michael Jackson also out of stock.
This is some testament to the strength of Michael Jackson's persona and his appeal. But this is man who has had a lot of financial problems. I want to bring in Ashleigh Banfield now. She anchors the court "Open Court" on TruTV. Ashleigh, Michael Jackson knew the inside of a courtroom very well. You were involved in the coverage of one of his trials. He was really in a lot of trouble for many years and that cost him dearly.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, TRUTV HOST: Yes, he knows the inside of not only criminal court, but civil court as well, Ali. I think he almost had attorneys on retainer at all times to deal with the civil actions that were launched against him. He was just facing an issue with the Prince of Bahrain, a $7 million lawsuit for failure to provide entertainment services. That was just one of the more recent famous civil cases. But I think you and I all remember most though that criminal case back in 2005 that found him not guilty of all the charges against him.
VELSHI: And now here's the situation. He has three children. We believe we know the mother of two of them, that was Debra Rowe.
BANFIELD: Correct.
VELSHI: And now what happens with these kids? He had custody of them. What happens? BANFIELD: Well, this is going to be a really big issue going forward. There is some thought that Debbie Rowe has technically some rights to custody of these two children. There was an issue over severing her parental rights. I think she agreed not to be a part of their lives. But there was no severance according to most reports of her parental rights.
So theoretically she could come back and say I'm the mother and I have first right to these children, but there's another's sibling, a third child that was born, about seven or eight-years-old now, I believe that child. And that mother has been kept anonymous. Now that mother may also come forward and who knows what sort of parental tests might have to be done to establish custody rights.
But god, if we end up with this whole Larry Birkhead fight again --
VELSHI: The Anna Nicole Smith. I'm assuming Michael Jackson has a will?
BANFIELD: You would sure hope so. But we all thought the same about Anna Nicole and regardless what have you think of the salacious coverage of her sort of posthumous existence, there were some serious probate issues there, Ali, that taught us a lot, all of us, about how important it is to cross your Ts and do the your Is even if you have a will.
Who knows if Michael Jackson had paid enough attention with all his other legal issues to the very important nature of leaving your last will and testament and making sure your probate issues are clear if this kind of tragedy happens to you.
VELSHI: With the big dispute over -- not dispute, but the fact that Michael Jackson is on one side heavily in debt, has some very valuable assets, does that hold up the probate or is probate really something else?
BANFIELD: You know, probate definitely could be held up in that and there could be a bankruptcy issue. And bankruptcies are all held in federal court. I hate to say this again, but it's another issue we learned from the Anna Nicole case and that's not even resolved yet. We're a decade into that, at least that bankruptcy crisis, went all the way to the Supreme Court. So there could be a bankruptcy issue. There certainly could be probate issues, custody issues and god, I hate to say it, but maybe criminal and civil issues going forward because of what happened.
VELSHI: We've got some pictures of those children that you're talking about. There are three children involved and two of them where the mother is Debbie Rowe and then there's a third child, that of course is the --
BANFIELD: And Ali, don't forget that usually big checks come along with children, so sometimes there are other motivations that come in with custody issues. And that was something that was argued about in the Anna Nicole case. VELSHI: Right. You may want to have that child because it's your child, but that child comes with a lot of money.
BANFIELD: Yes.
VELSHI: Let's talk about the number of people we saw turning out really all over the world, but in Los Angeles last night. When you covered his trial briefly, you know, that's the impression we have, there were all sorts of people out there. Tell us a little about that.
BANFIELD: Well, they were almost exclusively fans. There were just so many people that came out around the courthouse when he was facing trial in 2005. And invariably, Ali, they were very anti-media. Those reporters regularly would have to file in past people who would just hurl all sorts of epithets at them. And it was not a comfortable existence.
And one of our correspondents at Court TV back then had her life threatened from the work that she was doing outside the courthouse. So it was a very, very unique dynamic that has never played out for many of us the way we've the way we've watched court cases and coverage. It just has never played out like this before. Either Phil Spector or O.J. Simpson or Robert Blake, just never had any kind of turnout like that.
VELSHI: Ashleigh, we continue to see -- I mean, that's one of the interesting things and I just started off by saying how Michael Jackson's CDs have sold out, his DVDs have sold out. His fan base is really something else. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out.
BANFIELD: Ali, there's one more thing to remember here.
VELSHI: Yes.
BANFIELD: That regardless of how in debt he was, he still owns the rights to that Beatles catalog, he paid about $47 million for it.
VELSHI: That's a good question, Ashleigh. I was talking to Ethan Smith of "The Wall Street Journal" about that earlier. When you are trying to settle an estate, is someone going to see the future value in that publishing catalog? That is a remarkably -- that is a great asset but if you've got to settle bills --
BANFIELD: Oh, huge.
VELSHI: How are they going to deal with that?
BANFIELD: That's what probate's for, baby.
VELSHI: That's what probate is for. All right, Ashleigh, thank you. Lesson to all of us, get your will in order.
BANFIELD: Oh, yes. VELSHI: Most music fans loved him, but coming up next, we'll talk to a man who knew Michael Jackson. What was he like to work with, to hang out with and most importantly, to perform with? That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the desert of the United Arab Emirates, a new city is blooming. They call it Masdar, or the source in Arabic. On the outskirts of Abu Dhabi, Masdar City is a construction site right now, but here, they think big.
KHALED AWAD, DIRECTOR, MASDAR CITY: You're talking about 90,000 people, 50,000 living, 40,000 commuting.
GRANT: Clean and green. That's the catch cry. The world's first zero carbon, zero waste city, 90 percent of the development's power from the sun.
Here is the engine room, a solar panel farm in the desert. Ultimately, there will be nearly 90,000 panels here, enough to power phase one of the city and the construction of the rest. Solar remains much more expensive than gas, which currently powers Abu Dhabi, but Masdar's director says he has the answer.
AWAD: Toss more, use less. Exactly. Automatically that's in the planning of the city.
GRANT: Cars will be banned at Masdar. Everyone will be transported by specially designed, clean, space-age-style people movers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plan is somewhere around 2,000 to 3,000 of these vehicles.
GRANT: Abu Dhabi a powerhouse of oil production, 10 percent of world's supply, wants to lead the world in finding alternative sources of power. The Abu Dhabi government has pumped $15 billion U.S. dollars into the venture. In September this year, it turns from dream to reality. The first residents move in. The source will become the future. Stan Grant, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
VELSHI: We're standing by for word from the L.A. coroner possibly within half an hour about results -- we don't know if they're going to have results, we just hear that the L.A. coroner is going to talk to us about the autopsy that Michael Jackson has undergone today. We're going to find out about that. We will keep you covered.
The other thing is that we've just received word from AEG, that is the concert promoter of the range of concerts that Michael Jackson was about to embark on in a couple of weeks. Here's the word from them. Full ticket refund information and procedures will be released early next week for all Michael Jackson "This Is It" shows. Fans are advised to hold onto their ticket vouchers and proof of purchase. Remember that, if you're holding tickets anywhere in the world, hold onto your vouchers and your proof of purchase. Next week there will be word on what is going to happen with respect to those of you who have bought tickets.
Now so far, we've talked to a lot of people outside Michael Jackson's life looking in, people who knew him, but relatively few people who knew them intimately. I'm going to change that. On the line now with me is Lavelle Smith Jr.. He's not only a Jackson family friend but as a choreographer, he's responsible for many of those legendary Michael Jackson moves. Lavelle Smith Jr., welcome, thank you for being with us. Listen, you've worked very closely with Michael Jackson. Tell us about the man I knew.
LAVELLE SMITH JR., CHOREOGRAPHER: Well, the man I knew was an amazing gentle soul but also a very, very strong man and a kick-butt entertainer. Changed the way I thought about performing and the way I thought about dance in general.
VELSHI: Who was the influence there? You? Him? Who influenced these remarkable revolutionary moves that Michael introduced the world to?
SMITH: You know, Michael is amazing. Michael always comes to the table with ideas and a vision and also opens you up to give your insight and your input, but really, you work with Michael Jackson. You know, you don't choreograph Michael Jackson. You work together.
VELSHI: Remarkable. I mean, we were looking -- we've been looking over the last couple of days at all of those fantastic videos and those fantastic performances. What was the discipline like? Is there anybody like that that you've worked with?
SMITH: You know, I can say there are people like that. Beyonce is that way. There are those out there who have the same work ethic, they work hard, and don't really stop until it's done.
But, yes, Michael is a man that's kind of responsible for that blueprint, you know, work hard, don't stop until it's done even if it means, you know, no rest, you get it done, get it done.
VELSHI: Lavelle, thanks for telling us a little bit about the man that you used to work with so closely. Lavelle Smith Jr., a choreographer who worked with Michael Jackson, as he says, on so many of those legendary moves that we've come to know now. We are going to continue this coverage of Michael Jackson. We are expecting within half an hour to hear from the L.A. County coroner. We don't know what we'll hear. Don Lemon is live outside the coroner's office right now ready to tell us about what they are going to say. Right now, let's take it over to Washington. Our coverage of Michael Jackson and all the other news today continues with Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf?
