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Bernie Madoff Faces Victims, Sentencing Today; Supreme Court Rules in Favor of New Haven Firefighters; Questions Continue to Swirl Around Michael Jackson's Death; Few Job Losses Expected Than a Few Months Ago

Aired June 29, 2009 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Here's a look now at some of the other stories we're following right now. President Obama holds a White House reception to commemorate lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender pride month. In a proclamation earlier this month, the president declared his support for ending the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and securing adoption rights for same-sex couples.

A major beef recall is being expanded this week. The meat is associated with a possible E. Coli outbreak. It was produced at the JBS Swift Beef Company in Colorado. At least, twenty-four people in several states have gotten sick.

Medical examiners hope to find out what killed pitchman Billy Mays. An autopsy is planned for today. Mays was found dead in his home in Tampa, Florida. Mays also co-hosted the Discovery Channel show "Pitchman." He was 50 years old.

The man behind what's being called the biggest white-collar crime in history leaned his fate today. Financier Bernard Madoff will be sentenced for swindling more than 1300 investors, many of them at or near retirement age.

CNN's Allan Chernoff has one family's story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sixty-six-year- old Judy Rafferty out of retirement and back at work as a legal assistant. Her 71-year-old husband Don working as a consultant in his old business, hat manufacturing. Both husband and wife had to give up retirement after Bernard Madoff crashed the Rafferty's nest egg, their life savings.

JUDY RAFFERTY, MADOFF VICTIM: I think it's abominable that he should be -- has been allowed to get away with this.

CHERNOFF: Don's sister Patty also put the bulk of her savings with Madoff.

PATTY: It was just as devastating to me.

CHERNOFF: As did their 91-year-old mother, Virginia.

VIRGINIA RAFFERTY, MADOFF VICTIM: He should really be punished, you know, for all he has done to everybody. It's been terrible.

CHERNOFF: All four want to see Madoff get the entire 150-year prison sentence that he faces for his fraud.

JUDY RAFFERTY: I think he should get absolutely the full term.

CHERNOFF: Don learned of Bernard Madoff in the mid-'70s through his accountant, who is Madoff's father-in-law.

DON RAFFERTY, MADOFF VICTIM: I don't know how he does it. But he makes good money.

CHERNOFF: So for more than three decades, the Raffertys entrusted Bernard Madoff with their money.

(on camera): This was supposed to be the Raffertys retirement, touring the country in their RV, enjoying a life of leisure. Instead, the RV is now parked in the driveway. The Raffertys say they can't afford the registration, insurance, and gasoline.

(voice-over): They've cut out all luxuries and are barely making ends meet. They fear they may face foreclosure next year.

JUDY RAFFERTY: We are going to outlive what little money we have. It's a done deal.

CHERNOFF: Madoff defrauded the Raffertys and more than 13,000 victims using funds from one investor to pay dividends to another. While 71-year-old Madoff face as maximum term of 150 years in prison, his lawyer is asking the judge for just 12 years.

JUDY RAFFERTY: No way does he get out in 12 years. He's making everyone else suffer and he needs to suffer, too.

CHERNOFF: Even a life sentence, the Raffertys concede, won't bring them much satisfaction. What they want is a return of their money and a secure retirement which Bernard Madoff, no matter what his sentence can never deliver.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: All right. Very quickly, right in the middle of this whole Madoff story, we have other news to follow today.

As we've been telling you, a lot going on with the Supreme Court as well. We actually have a ruling right now on that New Haven firefighter's case. This was a case of reverse discrimination. There are 20 firefighters in New Haven who said that they lost their jobs and wouldn't be promoted, I should say, because of their race. The Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the New Haven firefighters in a ruling of 5-4.

So we, of course are going to continue to follow that. But once again, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the New Haven firefighters, 5-4. This was the reverse discrimination case. So we will continue to follow that. We're going to talk to Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst just as soon as possible to get a little bit more insight on that and what it could mean for the precedent there.

Meanwhile, I want to get back to Bernie Madoff for you. Because obviously today is the day where we are expecting him to be sentenced. Our Maggie Lake is actually outside the New York courtroom now where Bernie Madoff will be sentenced.

So bring us up to speed here, Maggie. What exactly is happening in court right now, and how do you know what is happening in court right now? It's hard, because I know access is tough.

MAGGIE LAKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Heidi. Sentencing hearing is actually just getting under way. Of course, the drama started very, very early this morning. People lining up to get a chance to go into the courtroom. There is limited space. There's a main courtroom where the activity is going to be happening. The judge is going to be there.

We're, of course, going to hear from Madoff's victims. This will be a very important day for them. It's a chance for them to tell their story. We're also expecting to hear from Madoff himself. A lot of people very anxious to see what he has to say for himself. Will he apologize? Will he explain why he did this to so many people? But it's a very crowded courtroom. There are actually two overflow rooms and you're right. It's very difficult to get information. As society now is used to getting instant information.

COLLINS: Yes.

LAKE: But this is a federal court. No cell phones allowed, no Blackberrys. So we have our Allan Chernoff in the main courtroom who, of course, has been following the Madoff case right from the very beginning and also three different producers in all of the courtrooms to try to get feed us out the information. They got to run to a pay phone, old school, but they are going to be bringing us updates as the victims start to speak, what they say. What Madoff himself says and of course, the sentencing. And we'll be bringing it to you live as soon as we get it.

COLLINS: Yes, I do, and we really wanted to share that with the viewers because I don't think I've even seen a pay phone in, like, three years or so. But we are doing the best that we can because obviously there's a lot of interest in this story. Everybody wants to know not only what the victims are saying but, if in fact they are going to be able to get any of that money back. That seems to be the crux of the question today and of course the sentence.

So Maggie, we'll be in touch with you and the other two producers and Allan Chernoff and everybody we can get our hands on. We sure do appreciate you being there. Thanks so much.

That heated discussion of Bernie Madoff also on our blog this morning. A lot of e-mails have been coming in. We are also asking you what you think his sentence should be. So if you'd like to weigh in on that just go to cnn.com/newsroom and then click on my picture.

A billionaire in shackle, his freedom now up to a judge. This morning a bond hearing is scheduled for Texas financier Alan Stanford. He has been indicted on charges that he swindled investors out of $7 billion. Prosecutors say that he's a flight risk. But a judge could allow him to be freed on a half million dollar bond. Stanford has denied any wrongdoing.

The United States Supreme Court will hold its final session today before adjourning for the summer. So a lot of business going on there. A decision is expected. Actually, we've just been telling you in our breaking news that there has been a decision already made in the New Haven police case involving 20 New Haven firefighters. They say that they were denied promotions because of their race. Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor, you may remember, was one of the three judges who rejected an initial appeal in this case.

The court also, well actually, we just have our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin standing by. Because Jeff, we want to talk more about this. Obviously, the decision came down 5-4. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the firefighters.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. The Supreme Court 5-4 in a decision by Justice Anthony Kennedy who was the swing vote in this case as in so many others ruled that the New Haven firefighters were the victims of reverse discrimination, that by canceling the tests, the --

COLLINS: Hey, Jeff, do me a favor. Back up and remind us of the story because there may be people out there who don't know what the test is and don't remember really what happened here.

TOOBIN: Absolutely. Good point. Basically, what happened is New Haven wanted to decide which firefighters to promote to higher positions and they issued a test. They did a written test which also had an oral component that said -- would be the main factor in deciding which firefighters would be promoted.

The top finishers in the test were white firefighters and one Hispanic. The black firefighters argued that the test was unfair, that it wasn't a good test of whether you'd be a good senior firefighter. And the city of New Haven responded to those complaints by canceling the tests and planning a new one that they said would be a more fair test.

Well, the white firefighters who did well on the original test, they sued. They said by canceling the test, the city had engaged in a reverse discrimination against those white firefighters. The Court of Appeals argued, said that the city was right to cancel the test, and most significantly, one of the judges on the three judge panel was Judge Sonia Sotomayor.

COLLINS: Yes.

TOOBIN: Who President Obama has nominated to the Supreme Court.

COLLINS: Right. And obviously there was a lot of question about that when we were first hearing her name and then we saw the nomination come. That was one of the things that came up. Hey, what's going to happen with this New Haven thing?

TOOBIN: That's exactly right. And now we know what is going to happen with the New Haven case. Five justices, the five conservatives on the court have overruled the decision that Judge Sotomayor endorsed. That was her decision. So certainly, there will be critics who say that she was overruled by the Supreme Court by four justices were on her side, including, of course, David Souter whose last day is today.

COLLINS: Yes.

TOOBIN: And she endorsed the position that Souter endorsed, but the majority ruled the other way and we also have to see, frankly we haven't really -- the written opinion hasn't been released yet. We just have to see how much the court has cut back on affirmative action remedies by city.

COLLINS: Yes, definitely. An awful lot more to talk about, Jeff, if you hang out with us that would be great. Because we have Kate Bolduan standing by right now, who I believe has the ruling. Is that right, Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I do. I have it in my hands right now, Heidi. We're actually, just as you can imagine, going through it. But we do have some very interesting quotes justices were going through this very preliminarily writing for the majority, Justice Kennedy. Jeffrey Toobin was going through kind of how things fell apart but fell along ideological lines. But let me read it. Interesting quote that he writes for the majority.

He writes, "On the record before us, there's no genuine dispute that the city lacks a strong basis of evidence to believe that it would face disparate impact liability, disparate impact on a protected class as we talked about going on to say that liability is to certify the examination results."

Here's where it gets interesting. "In other words, there is no evidence, let alone the required strong basis in evidence, that the tests were flawed because they were not job-related or because other equally valid and less discriminatory tests were available to the city."

The city when it argued its case, Heidi, said that there they were worried and there were fear of getting sued by the minority. Some of the minority firefighters who did not qualify because these promotional exam. Well, the court writes right here, it says, "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examination and qualified for the promotion." Very interesting and very clear language coming from the Supreme Court right there, Heidi.

COLLINS: Wow, all right. Well, I have so many questions but obviously I don't think we're not going to know the answers to them yet. What happens next? Are the firefighters then go ahead and be promoted? Is there any word on exactly how this will play out back in New Haven? BOLDUAN: That is a very good question. We do know that the firefighters wanted those promotional exams, those results, reinstated. They wanted the promotion and where it goes from here, we know very clearly where the Supreme Court stands and we will be hearing more about exactly how that actually falls out in the city of New Haven. I can read very quickly, Heidi, if we have a second...

COLLINS: Sure.

BOLDUAN: Justice Ginsburg writing for the minority, the dissenting justices here, she writes very carefully. It says this case presents an unfortunate situation. One New Haven might have avoided had it utilized a better selection process in the first place. But what this case does not present is race-based discrimination in violation of Title 7. That's the big question. It's an issue here, and she says, "I dissent from the court's judgment, which rests on the false premise that respondent showed a significant statistical disparity but nothing more."

COLLINS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Very interesting here as well.

COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. All right. Kate Bolduan, great job. Thanks so much for bringing that to us. We appreciate it, in real time here, obviously.

The breaking news once again that the Supreme Court has ruled in the New Haven firefighters case 5-4 ruling in favor of the firefighters. And Jeffrey Toobin, if I still have you there, obviously as we began talking about it before I knew that Kate had the ruling in here hand -- Sonia Sotomayor, this confirmation process, this will definitely come up. It's another reversal for her.

TOOBIN: No question about it. This will be a main focus of the attack against here by conservative senators who will say that here views are out of step with the supreme court. Now, that would be a somewhat tough argument to make because it's her views are clearly in step with four justices on the court, including the Justice that she will be replacing. So it's not like position was so far out of the mainstream on this case that she couldn't even get a single justice to agree with here.

She got four justices to agree with her. But I think this will be an opportunity for senators who are opposed to Sonia Sotomayor to raise the issue of racial preferences. Should the constitution -- as Justice Scalia, Justice Thomas are famous for advocating -- should the constitution be color blind? Should employers, should universities no longer be allowed to consider race at all in promotions, in admissions? Or should diversity be something that states and universities should be allowed to promote through their admissions practices? That's a big issue before the court. That's something Sonia Sotomayor certainly is going to be asked about.

COLLINS: Yes, the constitution being color blind, one thing and then the actual judges of the Supreme Court, Justices themselves in their decision making how much to allow race to play in it. Obviously, that's another part of the discussion as well. That's all we could talk all day, as usual. Jeff Toobin, thanks so much. Thanks for sticking around. A lot more going on with the Supreme Court today. Hang tough, if you will.

Meanwhile, I got to go back to this story. The death of Michael Jackson. His family grieving, and the world wonders what exactly happened in his final moments. We're going to have the very latest on the investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

COLLINS: Three days after Michael Jackson's death, the entertainment community celebrates his life. Last night's B.E.T. Awards paid tribute to the singer. His sister, Janet Jackson, somberly took the stage and voiced her family's grief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S SISTER: My entire family wanted to be here tonight, but it was just too painful. So they elected me to speak with all of you and I'm going to keep it very short but I'd just like to say that to you, Michael is an icon. To us, Michael is family. And he will forever live in all of our hearts. On behalf of my family and myself, thank you for all of your love. Thank you for all of your support. We miss him so much. Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Very quickly, as we've been telling you, an awful lot going on this morning. We want to get back to the Madoff story now. Bernie Madoff, as you know, is expected to be sentenced today. And our Maggie Lake is standing outside of the courthouse with some late breaking news. So, Maggie, I understand that the federal probation department is saying something. What exactly is that?

LAKE: Yes, the judge, Heidi, saying that the Federal Probation Department recommends that Bernie Madoff get 50 years in prison for his multi-billion dollar fraud scream. You'll remember that guilty will carry a maximum of 150 years. His lawyer, Bernie Madoff's lawyer asking for 12 years. Right now, the judge saying that the department is recommending 50 years. As soon as we get you information on whether the judge is going to take that advice or is he going the wait to be moved by some of the victims' statements. We'll get that to you.

But right now, the Federal Probation Department recommending a sentence of 50 years, certainly a life sentence for Bernard Madoff...

COLLINS: Sure.

LAKE: He's 71 years old.

COLLINS: Yes. That's right. Quickly, Maggie, just so people understand. Why does it matter what the Federal Probation Department is recommending in all of this?

LAKE: Well, it's a guideline that the judge -- you know, this is a big (INAUDIBLE) for the maximum to carry 150 years and for his lawyer to be asking for 12 is an awful big span of years. So this, of course, guides, will help the judge and give him some parameters on how to operate, Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. Very good. Maggie Lake outside that court house there. Bringing us all the latest developments. Sure do appreciate it, Maggie. Thank you.

We're going to take a quick break here and the CNN NEWSROOM will be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: We're also learning more about the final moments of Michael Jackson's life today. Here to break it down for us, Drew Griffin, our CNN Special Investigations Unit. Yes, it seems like every day, every hour, more and more...

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORREPONDENT: You know, Heidi, this is really being tabloid driven at this point. So we try to stick with what we know, the facts and we're getting from the attorney now for the doctor who was on the scene when Michael Jackson passed away...

COLLINS: Right.

GRIFFIN: ... the one who was performing CPR, that doctor, Conrad Murray, we are told, did discover Michael Jackson in that bed. He was not breathing. But according to that doctor, there who talked to the L.A.P.D. over the weekend for three hours now, Michael Jackson did have a pulse and was warm. He was assigned to basically take care of Michael Jackson during this tour, which is why he was at that house.

But a lot of speculation, Heidi, about what drugs were being administered to Michael Jackson, particularly one on the tabloid is Demerol.

COLLINS: Yes.

GRIFFIN: This morning, the attorney for that doctor, went on our AMERICAN MORNING and specifically said, no Demerol, no Oxycontin. And whatever was prescribed to Michael Jackson was for whatever ailments Michael Jackson had. Here's what Ed Chernoff, the attorney for the doctor had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED CHERNOFF, CONRAD MURRAY'S ATTORNEY: Dr. Murray prescribes certain drugs for Michael Jackson as a doctor. You know he had medical conditions, medical complaints. Now there have been some questions about whether or not he was taking substances that Dr. Murray did not know about. But as far as we know, Dr. Murray knew what Michael Jackson was doing, knew what he was doing and kept up with all of that.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So can you clarify some of the reporting that's out there about whether or not Michael Jackson was taking narcotics, pain killers, like Demerol, like Oxycontin? Did your client, Dr. Murray prescribed or administered those narcotic pain killers to Michael Jackson?

CHERNOFF: Yes, I've heard those rumors. And one of the things that we agreed with the L.A.P.D. was, although we are not allowed to discuss and we certainly wouldn't want to discuss the substances that Michael Jackson might or might not have been taking, we can say this with clarity, Dr. Murray never prescribed Demerol, never administered Demerol, never saw him, Michael Jackson, take Demerol. And that goes as well for Oxycontin. So I think those are just rumors. When toxicology comes back here, Kiran, that's going to be all cleared up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And the reason that none of this is all cleared up, of course, is because we haven't gotten any results from the coroner explaining exactly how 50-year-old Michael Jackson's performing just the night before in rehearsals suddenly collapses and dies. But, Heidi, there is now two autopsies.

COLLINS: Right.

GRIFFIN: One, the official autopsy. The other one we know that the family had performed. The results from that one may actually come back a lot quicker, maybe within days, whether or not the family shares that with us or not, we won't know.

COLLINS: Sure. Because the other one, I remember, the assistant coroner actually coming out to the press and saying it could be like six to eight weeks.

GRIFFIN: Six to eight weeks. That's a long time to wait. But -

COLLINS: Very long time.

GRIFFIN: The question is whether the family will release their investigation. But again, I want to keep in mind, this doctor is cooperating with the police. He's voluntarily staying in Los Angeles. He's a witness. There is no criminal investigation. There has not been a criminal investigation, and as far as we can tell from the Los Angeles police, this is not ramping up to a criminal investigation level. This is a death investigation. How did Michael Jackson die?

COLLINS: All right. Understood. Very good points. All right. Drew Griffin, from our CNN Special Investigations Unit. Thanks so much, Drew. Appreciate it.

Quickly, we want to get back to the Bernard Madoff story today because obviously it is sentencing day before the convicted swindler. Our Maggie Lake is standing by outside of the courtroom because Maggie, I understand now that these victims, at least 11 of them, I think we were expecting to come to the microphones and to say their piece. You've actually got some quotes?

LAKE: That's right, Heidi. And as expected, they are emotional and angry. An elderly woman, one of the second to speak, has said that she lost - told the courtroom that she lost all of her life savings and I must work full time just to eat. Another man who followed her said that he cheated his victims out of their own money so that he and his wife Ruth could live a life of luxury. That last statement very interesting. A lot of anger is also, not only been directed at Madoff but also as his wife Ruth. And as part of the sentencing parameters that came down on Friday, it turns out that Ruth is going to be able to keep some $2.5 million, at least that's what the federal ruling is. So a lot of people are sure to be incredibly angry about that, Heidi.

COLLINS: Yes. No question. All right. Maggie, we'll keep coming back to you as we hear more from some of these victims that are coming forward today and saying what they are thinking about, about how all of this should go down. Maggie Lake, thanks so much.

So maybe you're doing some grilling this weekend for the 4th of July, obviously? Well heads up. I want to let you know about a major beef recall that's being expanded this week now. The meat is associated with the possible E. Coli outbreak. It was produced at the JVS Swift Beef Company in Colorado. At least 24 people in several states have gotten sick.

Once again, Bernie Madoff learning his fate today. It is sentencing day for the convicted swindler who masterminded a multi- billion dollar Ponzi scheme. We're live in New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Convicted swindler Bernard Madoff finds out today if he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. A New York court is expected to announce his sentence for masterminding the Ponzi multibillion-dollar scheme.

CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is all over the case. He's been covering it closely. Joining us now from New York.

All right. You look like you're looking at some new information there, Jeff. Do you have something for us?

TOOBIN: I'm sorry, Heidi. I'm sorry.

COLLINS: That's OK. I thought you were checking the latest and maybe you had something new for us. Obviously, we just checked in with Maggie Lake, who's standing outside of the courthouse.

And now we are starting to hear some of these quotes from what the victims are saying as they go and testify and take a moment to say their piece. That's going to be happening for a while, because there's something like 11 people, right, that have been allowed to come and talk. There's a lot more that would have liked to have done that. TOOBIN: That would have liked to -- it's only 1989 where the Supreme Court said that the victims had a right to speak during sentencing. This is a relatively recent development in American law, but it's become a very important one. Judges take this part of the case very seriously.

Now, in fact, many judges have already made up their minds about what sentence they are going to impose before they come on the bench to hear victims' statements, but others don't.

COLLINS: Yes.

TOOBIN: And this is, I think, also an opportunity for victims to confront the person who did this, whether it's a financial crime or a violent crime. So this is a serious and important part of the criminal justice process.

COLLINS: People may not realize, he's there. He has to listen to all of that.

TOOBIN: He certainly does. And what often happens is the victim addressed their comments as much to the defendant as they do to the judge.

COLLINS: Yes.

TOOBIN: And that sometimes leads to very dramatic and emotional scenes.

COLLINS: Sure. So the maximum sentence that Bernie Madoff could get is 150 years in prison. His attorney is asking for 12. Obviously, this is because of his age. So, we just heard a little while ago that the federal probation department has already recommended 50. So with all of that information, what do you think he'll get?

TOOBIN: I think 50 is probably the range of what he'll get, given the magnitude of this crime. This may be the biggest white collar crime in the history of the United States. This may be one of the longest lasting white collar crimes in the history of the United States.

The suffering imposed, the lack of remorse, the fact that he simply went on until he got caught suggests that this is going to be a sentence of several decades. And remember, in federal court, you have to serve 80 percent of whatever sentence you get. So if he gets, say, 30 years, he's going to have to serve more than 20. And so for a 71- year-old man, anything over about 20 or 30 years is certainly going to amount to a life sentence, and I think it will be a life sentence.

COLILNS: Yes. What about precedent here, Jeff? Are we going to see a precedent set for other white collar crimes?

TOOBIN: Well, in recent years, sentences for white collar crimes have gotten a lot more stiff. I'm sure people remember Bernie Evers, who ran the WorldCom fraud. He got 25 years. This is a bigger scam, a bigger fraud with more victims. And so I think Madoff will get at least that much. And I think he will die in prison.

COLLINS: Quickly, before we go, everyone's curious about the victims, and whether or not they're going to be able to recoup any of this money. We know some of them have and the people who haven't are now suing them because some of that pay-out, and it's going to become this even more tangled web.

TOOBIN: There are two ways to get money back in this sort of scam. One is a federal program called, nicknamed SIPIC (ph), where you can get up to $500,000. Most of the investors, but not all of them, are eligible for that.

And then also there's a bankruptcy trustee trying to assemble, recoup as much of the investments as possible. They got $8 million from the Madoff family. That's -- but they also left 2.5 million for Mrs. Madoff. He has assembled over $1 billion in assets. But given the amount of losses certainly, it's likely to be pennies on the dollar. Most victims will get some money back but there is no way they'll be made whole.

COLLINS: Yes. Well, all right, Jeff, we know you are sticking around and watching this thing as close as we are. Sure do appreciate our senior legal analyst...

TOOBIN: Busy day.

COLLINS: Yes, very busy day. In fact, we want to get back to the courthouse because Sarah Lane, one of our producers at CNN, is actually inside the courtroom and is joining us now to talk a little bit about what that was like.

Sarah, if you can hear me, we'd love to know what you saw around you, and if you were able to hear any of the victims of testifying and telling their story about what they think should happen to Bernie Madoff.

SARAH LANE, CNN PRODUCER (via telephone): Sure, absolutely.

We were actually in an overflow courtroom so that we could get this information out to you pretty quickly. We saw in the courtroom -- a pretty elaborate courtroom here in New York City, it's called the ceremonial courtroom on the ninth floor of this federal courthouse.

Bernie Madoff walked into the courtroom at 9:55. He sat down, and very quietly, he looked very pensive, he spoke with his lawyer a little bit, but was just really quiet, wearing a dark suit. At 10:00 on the dot, the judge came in, and they started the proceedings.

There was -- at Madoff's table, his attorney, Ira Sorkin, and he had three other attorneys with him. The judge read some preliminary information, and said some of the things he was going to be considering in the sentencing. He mentioned Madoff's attorney, Ira Sorkin, had requested a 12-year sentence, and that the maximum possible was 150 years. Apparently, the federal parole board had recommended a 50-year sentence.

COLLINS: Right.

LANE: So, he mentioned that these were things he was considering, but then didn't give any hint of what he was going to do. And then he went into the victims' statements, nine victims would be speaking today.

COLLINS: Nine? OK.

LANE: Nine. The first one who spoke was Mr. Ambertinos (ph), and his wife was standing there with him. He said he was a retired New York corrections officer, so he had worked in prison. And he looked forward to seeing Bernie Madoff behind bars. He said, "I can remember the exact second that my wife told me the news." He said that he and -- it had been just devastating because he and his wife had worked honestly and worked so hard and that they were hoping when he retired -- they had gotten an RV, and were looking forward to touring the country, until this happened to them, until Madoff came along.

The next victim was (INAUDIBLE). She was very angry. You could tell, speaking very strongly and forcefully. She said she is a 61- year-one widow and now having to work full-time and listed some of the things that she won't be able to do now. She won't be able to donate to charity. She won't be able to care for herself in retirement...

COLLINS: So, overall, Sarah, if you could, characterize for us -- I mean, we're trying to get a sense of the anger or frustration or the emotion that is going on in that courtroom because you were there. You saw firsthand.

LANE: Sure. Sure. You know, as some of the victims were speaking, Bernie Madoff was just sitting there with his head down, not saying anything. Everyone else in the audience just seemed (INAUDIBLE) Some of them were very angry. Very forcefully, you could tell. And some of them were just unemotional in all of this.

COLLINS: All right. Well, definitely let us know. I'm not sure you're going to be able to get back in now or not, because we've been talking about that all morning. This is a federal courtroom and very hard to get access. It may not be something that is possible. But Sarah Lane, we appreciate your account, sitting in that overflow courtroom there for Bernie Madoff's sentencing.

Want to take a moment now to get back to Maggie Lake. She also has a little bit more about what some of the victims are saying as they give their testimony today. Maggie, hi.

LAKE: Heidi, hi. That's right. And you can imagine, as Sarah was explaining, some of these people must have been rehearsing these statements for months and months with this idea that it was a chance to face the man who had done this to them. So, you can imagine that the emotions run the gamut, and some people probably feel quite nervous, knowing that so many people are watching this.

That may explain why some are so emotional and some very flat and unemotional. Certainly their words tell the whole story. Another victim Sarah didn't get a chance to talk to us about was a mother with a daughter in college who said "since December 11, 2008, my life has been a living hell. It feels like we are in a nightmare we can't wake from." She went on to say, "We have no idea how we will continue to pay for college."

Interestingly, the woman, as she went on with her statement, also took a shot at regulators, saying that "the FCC failed me and my family." This is something that may come up more. They are not just angry at Bernie Madoff, but at the system and how this was able to happen and how he could perpetrate this for so long without any regulators having any idea. Heidi?

COLLINS: Wow. All right. Maggie, we know that you are waiting out there at your post right out in front of the federal courtroom there in New York to give us those comments. We are listening and we will come back to you, should you get more because obviously, this has been going on for a little while. Nine victims, we should remind everyone, we've been updated will actually be allowed to speak and to say their peace, if you will, today in the Bernie Madoff case.

Also, on the blog this morning, we are asking what you think Bernie Madoff's sentence should be. We're getting a whole lot of responses. Once again, CNN.com/newsroom. You can go ahead and log on and put your response as well as to what you think should happen here.

Here you can see the opening page of our blog. And then, here's what Greg has to say. "One hundred fifty years would fit the crime. But the guy's 71. How much longer does he honestly have? I think fifteen years would probably be the same as 150." His attorney, Bernie Madoff's attorney asking for 12, but the federal prosecutors asking for 50m and the maximum is 150. So that's what we are waiting on today, obviously.

R Walker says, "I don't see the point of taxpayers paying for him to be incarcerated for the rest of his life. Restitution is the answer. Get him to be monitored and given a high-paying job. He is a smart man, and pay the people he hurts back. You're doing no good to pay to keep someone in jail rather than paying the victims back.

All right. Some great comments there. What do you think should happen to Bernie Madoff? You can go ahead and get on our Web site there. Go to CNN.com/newsroom and tell us what you think.

Also, remembering Michael Jackson. We'll talk to a pivotal figure in the black community and a personal friend of the Jackson family.

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COLLINS: Motown remembers Michael Jackson. Yesterday, thousands of fans gathered to dance and sing in Detroit. That's where a young Michael got his professional start with his brothers by his side. The site of the gathering and candlelight vigil was the first site of the studio of Motown Records, the famed Hitsville (ph), USA.

Our next guest knew Michael Jackson the person. Linda Johnson Rice is a longtime friend of the Jackson family. Her father founded Johnson Publishing Company. The publisher of "Ebony" and "Jet" magazine. And today, she is the company's chairman and she's the executive officer. Nice to have you, Linda. Thanks for being with us today.

LINDA JOHNSON RICE: Thank you so much for having me.

COLLINS: Absolutely. When you first heard this news, what was your reaction?

Did you hear me, Linda?

RICE: I'm sorry. What was...

COLLINS: No, there's an override on there.

What was your reaction when you learned about Michael Jackson's death?

RICE: You know, I was absolutely stunned. I was sitting at my desk and watching TV, and then my phone started ringing off the hook. I could not believe it. Someone who was so full of giving and caring and sharing to be taken -- as the song says, "gone too soon."

COLLINS: I know that "Ebony" magazine is going to mark his death with a commemorative issue in a couple of weeks. And "Jet" is also doing something. What will people see when they look at those magazines?

RICE: I think what they will see is the history of Michael that we captured through the pages of "Ebony" and through the pages of "Jet." We photographed him and chronicled his achievements for the past 35 years or more. You know, my father was a confidante of his years and years ago, so we have a great history and great sense of trust and just wonderful feelings towards Michael. That's what you'll see in this issue.

COLLINS: Were you surprised by the world's reaction? You are looking at video right now, all of the people and everything that they have been doing, vigils all over the place, overseas. I mean, everywhere people may forget or not realize how big he was overseas.

RICE: I'm really not surprised by that. When we did our December 2000 issue, where Michael was on the cover, he has not been on the cover of a national or international magazine for the past 10 years. The outpouring of requests for that issue came from the international community. It was tremendous. Absolutely tremendous. None of that surprises me.

COLLINS: How about the concert that was planned? I mean, it just seems as we look back on everything, 50 concerts that are going d to take place in London over a period of time, only three weeks away. Your thoughts on that?

RICE: I think the concert would have been spectacular. He was a showman. This is what he did, and this is what he loved. He loved to please his fans. I can only imagine that it was going to be fantastic, and it's a sad case that none of us will be able to see it.

COLLINS: Yes. Will your magazine be writing at all about the autopsy, the investigation into his death?

RICE: Those things will be covered in "Jet" magazine, which is our news magazine which comes out weekly. We will chronicle it as the news unfolds.

COLLINS: All right. Linda Johnson Rice, the CEO and chairman of "Ebony" magazine. We sure do appreciate it.

RICE: Thank you so much.

COLLINS: Thank you.

Well, this will also be a very busy week on Wall Street as investors try to read the signs of where the economy is headed. We'll tell you about the key measures coming out, what they mean, as the second half of the year gets underway.

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COLLINS: The sentencing of Bernie Madoff is the big story on Wall Street today, obviously, and we also have the jobs report to get to. We will get to all of that in just a moment.

First, we want to go back to Maggie Lake standing outside the federal courthouse in New York with the latest on Bernie Madoff. Maggie, you have more information about what some of the victims are saying in court?

LAKE: That's right, Heidi. We were talking about the fact that there's a real range of emotion going on inside that courtroom. Some of the victims speaking are quite calm, and others are very angry. And we just heard from a couple that would fall into that category.

Sixty-three-year-old couple Mr. And Mrs. Fitzmorris. They said to the judge, "We implore you to get the maximum sentence at a maximum prison for this deplorable lowlife. This is a violent crime without a tangible weapon." And then the husband went on to read a statement from his wife -- only one was allowed to speak. She was sitting right next to him and then this very emotional statement, "I have a marriage made in heaven. You have a marriage made in hell, and that is where you will return. May God spare you no mercy."

So clearly, this couple is very upset. They went on to tell the judge how their life has changed because of all of this. They say they are not millionaires, maybe addressing a public perception that a lot of these clients are very wealthy and have money to spare. They said they are not. He's forced to work three jobs, she's working full-time. They can't retire, and they also can't go and visit their one-year-old grandchild. Their life has been drastically changed because of it.

So, again, a lot of emotion coming from this couple. I imagine we're going to be hearing more about it as well, Heidi. COLLINS: Yes. I imagine you are right. Maggie Lake, thank you.

We'll be back in a moment with a check of stocks and earnings reports that are going to be coming out later this holiday week. Back in just a moment right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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COLLINS: The sentencing of Bernie Madoff is the big story on Wall Street today, but the jobs report is the one that will generate the most reaction later on this week. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange with more on this. Hi, Susan. How's this jobs report going to look?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know what, Heidi? It's going to look bad, but it's going to look better than earlier this year. We're expecting a loss at this point about 370,000 jobs. That is a lot better. That's with June. It's a lot better than, say, April, where we had half a million or March where we had 650,000.

So, it's coming down, it's still -- the U.S. economy should be generating jobs every month. At least 100,000. But the numbers coming down and the jobless rate, by the way, we're expecting to climb to a 26-year high of 9.6 percent. Heidi.

COLLINS: We are also expecting a lot of investors to be tinkering with their portfolios in the next couple of days.

LISOVICZ: Very good, Heidi. That's right. The savvy investor knows tomorrow is the end of the month, end of the quarter, end of the first half of the year. So there often is a lot of volatility when portfolio managers do this window dressing.

You know, we have seen, certainly, a decided change, a decisive change in sentiment. A few months of rallies followed by a pull-back. This month, you know, there's the old expression, "Sell in may and go away." Well, it was sell in June and maybe take the summer off. Right now we're not seeing much action in the market at all. It's kind of a slow day, Heidi. Back to you.

COLLINS: Susan Lisovicz, thank you.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

COLLINS: Bernie Madoff facing victims and finding out his fate in a New York courtroom today. I'm Heidi Collins. Continuing coverage of this breaking news story on CNN NEWSROOM with T.J. Holmes.