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Obama to Hold Town Hall Meeting on Health Care Reform Today; Jackson's Body Being Moved to Neverland Ranch for Public Viewing; Honduras Given Three-Day Deadline to Reinstate Ousted President; Could U.S. Troops Be Called back in to Iraq?; Iran Election Fallout, Losing Candidates Challenging Results; Girl Survives Indian Ocean Plane Crash; TSA Weighs Tougher Security Rules on Small Planes; Democrats' Senate Supermajority, Al Franken Declared Official Winner in Minnesota Election; Health Care Answers from the White House; States Face Possible Shutdowns; Michael Jackson's Will Filed; American Medical Association's Health Care Reform Prescription; Jackson Night at the Apollo
Aired July 01, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: First this hour, hard sell on health care. The president will take your questions on the overhaul. Next hour, he will be at a town-hall meeting in Virginia but will include participants from Facebook and Twitter. Here's CNN's White House correspondent Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: When it comes to health care reform, the Obama administration says there's no time like now.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After decades of inaction, we have finally decided to fix what's broken about health care in America.
LOTHIAN: That pledge gets a good applause in Green Bay, Wisconsin. But on Capitol Hill, the devil is in the details. Mr. Obama is pushing a government-sponsored option. Republicans and some Democrats say it's bad for private insurers, even though the White House claims it will make them more disciplined and boost competition. There's a nonprofit co-op plan, and other ideas being floated to provide affordable health insurance for all Americans.
Whatever is settled on, the price tag is steep, roughly a trillion dollars. Raising taxes on the middle-class to pay for it, once a no-no on the campaign trail...
OBAMA: Not any of your taxes.
LOTHIAN: ... is now a possibility. But spokesman Robert Gibbs is projecting a positive tone, saying the administration, quote, "feels good about the progress being made on health care reform."
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Everybody's still at the table. Everybody's still talking to each other in an effort to move health care reform forward. To do so in a way that's consistent with our principles and our values.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And Dan Lothian joins me now from the White House. Dan, I know the White House has held a number of these town halls recently.
LOTHIAN: Right. That's right.
HARRIS: Focusing on health care. What makes this one different?
LOTHIAN: That's right, in fact, we just had one last week.
HARRIS: Right.
LOTHIAN: What they're saying is different about this one is that it's the most interactive and using more multimedia than they've ever had when they have been addressing the issue of health care. You pointed out earlier, Facebook, Twitter, also YouTube. And, in fact, the president himself, according to the White House, posted his own video soliciting these questions online a few days ago. They have been getting these video questions and some of them will be used at the event today.
HARRIS: Dan, what's really going on here? Is this more about sending a message to Capitol Hill?
LOTHIAN: It really is two-fold. The administration will tell you that the main focus here is getting the public engaged early in the process not after the fact. But one administration official told me that clearly they hope that, you know, the folks up on Capitol Hill are paying attention, because what they're expecting to come from these kinds of town-hall meetings, you will hear the stories, the emotional stories, of people who are having a hard time paying for the high cost of health insurance or have all these bills because they have been ill and those are the kinds of stories that they think can really be effective for lawmakers to kind of put that face in front of the legislation.
HARRIS: Yes, all right, Dan Lothian at the White House for us. Dan, appreciate it, thank you.
LOTHIAN: OK, Tony.
HARRIS: OK, what do most Americans -- what do you think about the president's plan? A new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows a bare majority support the president. Here's the breakdown, 51 percent favor his health care proposal, 45 percent oppose it.
And how much reform do Americans think the U.S. health care system actually needs? A majority, 55 percent, say a great deal of reform, 40 percent says only some reform and only five percent think the system needs no reform at all. The president's town hall from Annandale, Virginia, scheduled to get under way at 1:15 p.m. Eastern Time and, of course, we will bring that to you live right here on CNN.
As mentioned, some of the questions at today's town hall will come from social networks like Facebook and Twitter. Well, we want to hear from you. Why don't you go to our blog right now and send us a question. What would you ask the president about health care? Go to cnn.com/newsroom and send us your thoughts. I will be joined by one of the president's key players on health reform, she'll be answering your questions in about 15 minutes.
I'll also be talking live this hour with Dr. James Rohack, president of the American Medical Association. As I mentioned, Nancy Ann DeParle, director of the White House Office of Health Reform, will join us as well.
Well, it turns out Michael Jackson did have a will, one written in 2002, and it is due to be filed in court today. Here's what we know about it. Jackson's mother Katherine is named guardian of his three children. And the pop star's considerable assets are in a trust. It will be up to a court to decide if the will is valid. A Jackson family lawyer told CNN it could be complicated if other wills turn up.
It is time to lay Michael Jackson to rest. And right now, at Neverland, the family's preparing to bring his body home. Kara Finnstrom is live at Jackson's Neverland ranch. And, Kara, what a scene you showed us last hour. You have heavy equipment out there, earth being moved, getting ready for this long good-bye to Michael Jackson.
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a little bit of craziness out here this morning. I want to give you a look at the crowds that are starting -- actually, you know, they scatter every time a large truck comes through here, but in between we'll see kind of the fans starting to gather up again at the gate, looking at the pictures, leaving flowers, that type of thing, and then these large trucks come through and everyone kind of scatters and then starts to reassemble. Just starting to see the fans come out here this morning.
We've been seeing the trucks all morning long. As you mentioned, some large agriculture trucks, also some -- also we saw just go in a party truck with party supplies on the back. All we could see, though, were just large boxes. But very busy out here this morning, with law enforcement out here as well.
Now, as far as what will be happening here over the weekend, a law enforcement source tells CNN that plans are being made for a motorcade to bring Michael Jackson's body here to the Neverland Ranch for some private and also public services. However, the exact details of that still haven't been released. And as you could see from all the hustle, bustle going on here, they may still be very much in the tweaking phase.
HARRIS: Yes.
FINNSTROM: So, we're kind of standing by, waiting for those details and waiting to see what happens out here.
HARRIS: Well, Kara, let's see if we can drill down a little bit here, on the lower third everyone can read it at home, the public viewing scheduled for Friday. Do we have any idea, is it a one-day event? Is it a weekend-long event? Do we have any idea at this point? You probably don't know the answer to that question.
FINNSTROM: Well, here's what a law enforcement source has told us. That the body will come up here late Thursday morning. That there will be a public viewing of the body for, you know, on -- for the public obviously, on Friday and a private memorial service for the family on Sunday. This was as of late yesterday.
HARRIS: Right, right.
FINNSTROM: So, you know, these things could change. As we've been mentioning, this thing is very much in flux. So, the specifics of it may change. But we still anticipate that something is being put together here for this weekend.
HARRIS: Kara, another quick one here. The moving of the body from Los Angeles to where you are at the ranch, how long of a trip is that? How many miles? How many hours?
FINNSTROM: Well, it's about 130-mile drive. It took us about two-and-a-half hours to drive up here from Hollywood which would be about the same distance from wherever they might be bringing him in Los Angeles.
HARRIS: Sure.
FINNSTROM: I would anticipate that the motorcade would probably travel a little bit more slowly than we did.
HARRIS: Yes, absolutely. All right, Kara Finnstrom for us. Kara, appreciate it, thank you.
We encourage you to be here tonight when Larry King digs up even more details about the elaborate farewell being planned for Michael Jackson. That's "Larry King Live" tonight, 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has canceled a trip out of the country. Meanwhile, many are asking where is his chief political challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Eight minutes after the hour, welcome back, everyone, to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Tony Harris.
American troops in Iraq have pulled back from the major cities. How soon could they return if needed?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Growing international pressure right now for Honduras to restore its ousted president. Today, the Organization of American States passed a resolution saying Honduras has three days to reinstate Manuel Zelaya. If not, Honduras could be suspended from the OAS. Now, the U.N. passed a similar resolution on Tuesday, demanding Zelaya be reinstated.
Three major labor unions have hit the streets launching a general strike supporting Zelaya, the Honduran military force, the president out Sunday morning, after he pushed for a public referendum to change the country's constitution.
American troops are no longer running the show in Iraq, but they could be called back into action. CNN's pentagon correspondent, Chris Lawrence, has a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How do you say good-bye? For some Iraqis, with celebrations in the street as American troops move to the outskirts of town.
Six years after combat troops arrived in Iraqi cities, they've packed up and pulled back, mostly moving to rural bases. At the high point of the surge, the U.S. had built up nearly 100 outposts in Iraqi neighborhoods. They've all been closed down or turned over. But the top U.S. commander got frustrated when he was repeatedly asked how many of his 130,000 troops are still in Iraqi cities.
GENERAL RAYMOND ODIERNO, COMMANDER, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: How many times you want me to say that? I don't know. What I'm telling you is, it's training and advising teams that remain in Baghdad. And it will be different tomorrow than it is today, and that's why I don't want to say a number, because it will be inaccurate.
LAWRENCE: Some troops are still in the green zone guarding the new American embassy. Others are in Camp Victory, just a 15-minute drive from the center of Baghdad. And Iraqis agreed to exempt American base Falcon, even though it's inside Baghdad's border. American soldiers could rush back into parts of Baghdad in a matter of minutes, but as of now they can't, unless the Iraqis ask for help and invite the Americans in. With American troops confined to fewer bases, some worry they'll become too predictable and more vulnerable to IED attacks.
ODIERNO: And, yes, there is a big concern about that. We'll clear the routes. We'll work with Iraqi security forces to coordinate and help us to provide the security on those routes.
LAWRENCE (on camera): So, what if this agreement doesn't work? If American troops can't protect themselves under these conditions? General Odierno says they retain the right to self-defense. And if it became too dangerous, U.S. officials would try to rework the agreement. First, on a local level, and then if they had to, nationally. Chris Lawrence, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: You know, Iran's government says the presidential election is over, but the opposition candidates say, not so fast. CNN's Reza Sayah is at our Iran desk. And, Reza, look, it sounds like, according to some of the things we're hearing from the challengers, that this is far from over.
REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it. The government wants it to be over, but the opposition groups have come out in defiance today. A number of big names coming out today, saying these elections are not over, beginning with Mir Hossein Mousavi, the disgruntled candidate, he came out today and once again called these elections illegitimate.
Also coming out today another reformist candidate Mehdi Karroubi. Karroubi, you'll recall, in 2005 received a few million votes. This year, a few hundred thousand votes. He really came out today blasting the election process and the crackdown that came afterwards. Here's what he said, "I see these and other actions as the foundation for the annulment of the elections. And I will not recognize the legitimacy of this government which has resulted from this process and will not participate in any of its processes in any way."
Doesn't end there. Also coming out today, former president, Mohammad Khatami, you'll recall, he was supporting Mr. Mousavi. He came out with this statement, "The current militarization in the security environment must change in society, must be taken towards calm and believe that all doors are not yet closed." Of course the government came out yesterday and said, all doors are closed, these elections are certified, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been re-elected. He's scheduled to start his new term July 26th with a swearing-in ceremony, but some defiance from these opposition leaders today.
HARRIS: Yes, it sounds like it. Reza, what are human rights organizations saying about the allegations of the tensions and human rights abuses?
SAYAH: Yes, human rights groups very concerned about the government crackdown that has resulted in hundreds of people that have been missing. According to Amnesty International, at least 1,000 people have not been heard from and many of these groups are concerned that these people are not getting due process. Human rights groups calling for the U.N. to do more. Here's one of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HADI GHAEMI, INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN IRAN: Secretary-general at this moment and the U.N. high commissioner for human rights to be sending a special envoy to Iran and asking for accountability, to present the detainees, to get them access to lawyers, to get a transparent, judicial process. And if all of these venues together are activated, the Iranian government cannot refuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAYAH: Among the many missing, journalists, political dissidents, activists and human rights groups are concerned they're not getting due process and the Iranian government is not even going to be questioned where are these people, that's why they're pushing the international community to do something. Tony?.
HARRIS: OK, Reza Sayah at our Iran desk, Reza, appreciate it, thank you.
The 14-year-old girl who survived an Indian Ocean plane crash is said to be bruised and traumatized. She is being transferred to a hospital in Paris from Comoros, the island nation off Africa was the plane's destination.
One hundred fifty two people are presumed dead in the crash of the Yemen Airlines airbus. Search teams say the plane's data recorders may have been located. France had banned this particular jet from its airspace for safety violations. The vice president of Comoros slammed the French for not informing his government. Comoros residents say many Yemen Airline flights lack seat belts. And listen to this, planes can be often overcrowded with passengers having to stand in the aisles. In fact, one Comoros official called them, "flying cattle cars."
How big a threat are small planes to America's security? We get an answer in just a moment. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Private planes could face tough new security measures soon, the latest now from our homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bob Hawkins has been flying for 50 years, and he has had it with the Transportation Security Administration.
BOB HAWKINS, PILOT: I find it a real pain in the tush, and I don't think it accomplishes anything.
MESERVE: Hawkins is upset about rules that TSA is proposing for noncommercial aircraft, even though they would not apply to the small plane he's flying, but larger, corporate and personal jets, generally those holding eight or more people.
If the aircraft weighs more than 12,500 pounds at takeoff, the TSA proposes fingerprinting the pilot and doing a background check, checking passengers' names against terror watch lists and banning the same items prohibited from the cabin of commercial flights, knives and guns, but also tools and even golf clubs. The aviation community is pushing back hard.
ANDY CEBULA, AIRCRAFT OWNERS AND PILOTS ASSN.: It would be the equivalent of telling you, you have to go through all kind of security requirements to drive your car.
MESERVE: The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association enlisted celebrity pilot Harrison Ford to underline the high cost of the proposal.
HARRISON FORD: Millions of jobs and large and small businesses depend on general aviation. MESERVE: Aviation groups also argue that private planes are too small to be effective weapons, and that security at general aviation airports is much improved. A recent report from the Department of Homeland Security inspector general seems to bolster their case, concluding "general aviation presents only limited and mostly hypothetical threats to security."
But a TSA official counters, "We don't know who is flying around where, what or who they're carrying or what their intent may be." The previous secretary of homeland security said repeatedly, general aviation had to be seen as a threat vector.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Not because of a specific threat, but simply because the difference between the security and commercial aviation and the security in general aviation has grown. And that difference creates a vulnerability.
MESERVE (on camera): The TSA is talking with aircraft manufacturers, pilots and others, and all sides say the proposed security rules are likely to be modified before they're finalized. But pilots like Bob Hawkins aren't likely to be happy with any regulation that they perceive as interfering with their freedom to fly.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Well, the United States Senate will finally have a full bench. Democrat Al Franken has been certified as the winner of the disputed Minnesota race. He plans a victory rally at 1:00 Eastern at Minnesota's state capitol. Franken's win gives democrats a Senate supermajority. That could actually deny Republicans the use of the filibuster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL FRANKEN, (D) MINNESOTA SENATE-ELECT: I know there's been a lot of talk about the fact that when I'm sworn in, I'll be the sixtieth member of the Democratic Caucus, but that's not how I see it. The way I see it, I'm not going to Washington to be the sixtieth Democratic senator. I'm going to Washington to be the second senator from the state of Minnesota, and that's how I'm going to do this job.
NORM COLEMAN, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I just had a conversation with Al Franken congratulating him on his victory. And I told him it's the best job that he'll ever have, representing the people of the state of Minnesota in the United States Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Republican Norm Coleman conceded the race shortly after the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled against his election challenge.
The recession has hit states hard. We are looking at how governors and lawmakers are trying to cope and still provide vital services.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: President Obama is getting ready to sell health care reform at another town hall meeting next hour. CNN NEWSROOM, of course, is focusing on the plans that are beginning to gel in Congress. I will ask the president of the American Medical Association about his objections in just a little bit.
But, first, the director of the White House Office for Health Reform will answer your questions. Welcome, Nancy Ann DeParle. Nancy, thanks for being here.
NANCY ANN DEPARLE, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF HEALTH REFORM: Thank you.
HARRIS: We appreciate it.
DEPARLE: Thank you.
HARRIS: Let me cut right to the chase here. I don't know how long I have you. But I have some important questions that we're hearing over and over again. Are we going to end up, in your estimation, with legislation that includes a government-sponsored health care option?
DEPARLE: I think we will, because I think the American people really want reform that will lower their costs. The costs today are just crushing American families and businesses. And they want reform that offers them a choice and some competition among private plans. And unfortunately the history hasn't been that great with the private plans on their own, so offering them this choice that will be a lower cost to them is something that will help all American families. So, yes, I think that will be part of it.
HARRIS: Well, Nancy, you've heard the pushback. What do you say to those who say a government-sponsored system will drive some private insurers out of business?
DEPARLE: You know, I've heard that in times past when people tried to make insurance reforms. And I would just say this that no one here is trying to drive insurance plans out of business. What we're trying to do is make sure that the American people have a choice. And I think a government-sponsored plan would be more likely to be lower costs for them, and that's what people want. So, it's a choice that Americans should have.
HARRIS: What do you say to those who say companies will opt out of their programs and join a government program that presumably will be cheaper, meaning, in fact, that you may not be able to keep the insurance that you have now?
DEPARLE: Well, the first principle is the one that the president stated. I'm glad you remembered it, which is that if you like what you have, you can keep it.
HARRIS: Yes, sure.
DEPARLE: So, for those people who are currently in large employer plans and like what they have, they'll be able to keep their plans, and over time we think their costs are going to go down as we change some things about the delivery system and make the things work better, incentivize physicians to provide more wellness care.
HARRIS: Yes.
DEPARLE: And help people prevent illness as opposed to treating sickness. So, if they like what they have, they'll be able to keep it. Remember the insurance exchange, or the marketplace, in which the public plan will be one plan competing among the private plans that's intended for people who currently don't have access to affordable insurance. It's not intended for everybody. So, I don't think there's any -- any reason to think that private insurance plans are going to go out of business or that everyone --
HARRIS: Right.
DEPARLE: -- will flock to the public plan. It will be a choice.
HARRIS: Nancy, I have a couple of viewer questions here, and I promise, they're not loaded. The first one comes from Janice, and she says, "I'm concerned about the incredibly strong influence that the health care insurance industry" -- really she's referring to the lobby here - "has over our legislators. I don't believe the insurance industry works in the best interests of the sick. How can the hold that the industry has over Congress be released or broken?" What are your thoughts on that?
DEPARLE: Well, I think that's why we want to make sure that Americans have a choice, and in this new marketplace, where they'll be offered a choice among plans, there will be some good private plans that will be operating under new rules of the road.
For instance, they won't be allowed to say to someone like Janet that if she has a pre-existing medical condition, she's had cancer in the past or she's been sick, that they're going to jack up her rates. They won't be able to have such dramatic differences in prices that they charge to people of different ages or men versus women. So, those rules of the road will be reformed. And the private plans will be operating in a better, stronger marketplace.
HARRIS: Yes.
DEPARLE: And they'll have a choice, I believe, they'll have a choice of a public plan. I think that the members of Congress and all of our elected officials have heard from people like Janet, that they're tired of not having that kind of a choice.
HARRIS: Got a question. I'm going to skip the second one, that's for everyone in the control room, because I like Eileen's a little better. Eileen writes, "Are companies obligated to offer the benefit of health insurance?" Are they obligated? "If my information is correct, most companies are finding their second-greatest business expense is health insurance, second only to payroll. With insurance and health care costs continuing to soar, it will not be too long before health insurance becomes a company's greatest expense."
What do you think of that?
DEPARLE: Well, it is. The expense is crushing businesses. It's crushing families. We now spend more on health care than we do on food. So it's really something that the president wants to have as a big part of this reform is to lower costs. And that's exactly what we're trying to do here.
So right now the question is very apt one, because it's true that most businesses, there is no requirement that you are provided health insurance by your employer. But most businesses want to. They understand that that's a part of -- it's the kind of a benefit that workers want. But they're having trouble doing it because of the cost. And that's why you see small businesses coming to the table and saying, please help us have affordable, quality options for our workers. That's why you have Wal-Mart yesterday coming forward and saying, yes, we think employers have a responsibility here.
HARRIS: Yes.
DEPARLE: There's a lot of agreement on this.
HARRIS: Nancy, I appreciate it. Thanks for your time. Come back and visit us again as we get farther along on this debate.
DEPARLE: Thank you.
HARRIS: No, it's our pleasure. Nancy Ann Deparle, White House Health Reform Director.
Once again, want to get you to cnnmoney.com because our team there does just an absolutely terrific job. If you want the latest financial news and analysis, just go to cnnmoney.com.
Quickly now, three hours into the trading day. Let's get you to the big board, New York Stock Exchange. As you can see, we are in the middle of a rally now. A triple-digit rally. The Dow is up 108 points.
We are following the numbers throughout the day with Susan Lisovicz in the CNN NEWSROOM. And, Joe, what about the NASDAQ? Where are we with the NASDAQ? Whoo, NASDAQ up 23. So a positive day so far.
You know, a dozen states have failed to pass a new budget by today's deadline and some are facing shutdowns. CNN's Elaine Quijano takes a look at the dire situation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the country, state governments are scrambling to pay the bills. In Illinois, a $9.2 billion deficit.
GOV. PAT QUINN, (D) ILLINOIS: Our state is really suffering its most difficult financial crisis since 1818.
QUIJANO: In California, an eye-popping $24 billion shortfall.
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R) CALIFORNIA: Our wallet is empty, our bank is closed and our credit is dried up.
QUIJANO: And in Pennsylvania, a $3.2 billion gap.
GOV. ED RENDELL, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: Make no mistake, it's the financial crisis that caused this.
QUIJANO: In the midst of the recession, state tax revenues dropped off sharply, leaving state budgets deep in the red.
JON SHURE, CENTER ON BUDGET AND POLICY PRIORITIES: Unlike the federal government, the states can't run in a deficit, and they can't print money. So when they have a shortfall between needs and available revenue, they really have to scramble.
QUIJANO: That means schools, teachers, health care, all in danger.
TODD HAGGERTY, NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF STATE LEGISLATURES: Well, you've seen that these budget gaps are so large that states are facing that pretty much anything and everything is on the table.
QUIJANO: Including cuts in programs that help the elderly and veterans, tax and fee increases, layoffs of state employees, and even partial government shutdowns. Experts say the federal government is providing some relief. On average, they say states are using money from the economic recovery plan to cover roughly 40 percent of their budget shortfalls.
SHURE: There's no silver bullets in this. The stimulus package, which was unprecedented relief from the federal government for the states, was aimed at solving about 40 percent of the states' budget shortfall. And it's doing that.
QUIJANO (on camera): Experts say states will be facing these same problems through 2010. Maybe beyond that. Why? Because even though the national economy may be showing some signs of recovery, states take longer because unemployment eases only gradually. And that's where states get their revenues.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: More on the problems facing many states in just a moment, but very quickly we want to get you to Don Lemon. He's in Los Angeles for us and following the latest developments in the Jackson investigation.
And, Don, I understand you have some information on the Jackson will.
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, matter of fact, I was just on my way to the courthouse when I got word that the Jackson will had been filed and now I'm making it back towards the bureau.
But I have had a chance to look over some of that as I'm driving now to the bureau here. It is saying that Michael Jackson wanted -- he said -- it's weird, the language says nominates or what have you, his mother as the executor of his will, as the administrator of his assets in that will. It does name John Branca (ph), who is his former attorney, and a former friend, an entertainment executive, John McClain (ph), as another executor.
But it says that specifically there's language that says he leaves his former wife out, Debbie Rowe. And then it says, if -- if his mother, Katherine Jackson, can't take care of the kids, then he would like -- he would like Diana Ross to take care of his kids.
So I'm just getting a moment here to read over the will, Tony. But apparently the will has been filed.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEMON: Looking at copies of it now. He would like his mother to take care of the kids and he would like his mother to be in control of his assets. But the executor is not his mother. The executor is his longtime attorney and then also longtime friend, who is also in the entertainment business.
So more details to come on this will as I get a chance to look over it.
HARRIS: Sure. And I think folks -- Don, I think folks will be surprised, maybe not so, but some will be surprised to hear that if for any reason Katherine Jackson can't take care of the kids, that the next in line for those kids, according to Jackson's wishes in this will, is Diana Ross. Important to note that Diana Ross was so instrumental in the early days of the Jackson Five's burgeoning career and a really important force in Michael Jackson's life.
LEMON: Yes, she was. And, you know, you remember "We Are The World," she was standing right next to him and he -- one of the first times he wore the . . .
HARRIS: Well, and you remember "The Wiz." You absolutely remember "The Wiz."
LEMON: Well, yes, and "The Wiz." Well, and, you know, I shouldn't say -- I almost said strangely silent. Diana Ross has been silent throughout this whole process. Have we heard from her? Not really.
HARRIS: We've heard one statement is all that I can recall.
LEMON: Right.
HARRIS: And it echoed a lot of the statements that we received here, that she was heartbroken.
LEMON: She's heartbroken and she's doing what many people feel that most should do, is grieve in private and release a statement and not say much. So, you know, Diana Ross, one of the closest people, you know that, to Michael Jackson out of -- besides his family. Besides his family.
HARRIS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
One other quick question. Any mention -- I know you're still looking through the document now. Any mention of Joe Jackson in the document and why he is not being provided for in the will?
LEMON: Well, you know, the will doesn't go into specifics about why he's not being provided for, but you can assume from the relationship that Michael Jackson was vocal about and in many interviews, in a number of interviews about his relationship with his father, and then also speaking to friends of Michael Jackson while I'm here in Los Angeles, that relationship that was -- has been dissected for so long.
HARRIS: Yes, yes.
LEMON: Much of what has been reported is true.
HARRIS: OK.
LEMON: So, you know, that would lead you to believe why it's not in there.
HARRIS: Sure. Sure.
LEMON: The will doesn't have that language, but it does not provide for his father at all.
HARRIS: OK. Yes, I was just asking because we -- the e-mail that your team probably forwarded to us says, quoting here, "I have intentionally omitted to provide for my former wife, Deborah Rowe- Jackson." I was just curious as to whether or not similar language was in the document concerning Joe Jackson. But I know you still have work to do on it.
Don, appreciate it. Thanks for the update.
LEMON: Thank you, Tony.
HARRIS: All right. What are doctors saying about the president's efforts to reform health care? I will get some answers from the head of the American Medical Association in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: So, a few minutes ago we spoke with the White House director of health care reform. Now let's get another point of view from the American Medical Association. We wanted to hear from this group for sometime.
We tried to do this last week, of course. The AMA has a major stake in what ultimately happens with health care reform. Dr. J. James Rohack is the new president of the AMA and he's with us from College Station, Texas. And our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, also here to join the conversation.
James, appreciate your time. We were trying to do this with you last week. We got run over by a breaking-news train, but thanks for being here this week.
DR. J. JAMES ROHACK, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Well, we're glad to be here. And, in fact, last week was a good example of why the American Medical Association is convinced that this year is the year we need to have affordable health insurance coverage for all Americans.
HARRIS: Tell me why. Expand on that.
ROHACK: Well, if you remember last week, we were miked, ready to go and the breaking news of the tragic death of Farrah Fawcett.
HARRIS: Yes.
ROHACK: And what Elizabeth mentioned was the importance of being an empowered patient. You are empowered if you have your own health insurance. And so that's one of the reasons why the 50 million Americans that don't have health insurance, we think that's a tragedy. And so the American Medical Association has been working to say, "What can we do to evolve the system so that everyone has affordable, portable health insurance coverage that gives them choice of their physician, choice of the care that they need and a decision between the doctor and the patient?".
HARRIS: Well, you know what, let's do this. Let's drill down on what we should do. Let me ask you, what is the AMA's position here? Are you in favor of ...
ROHACK: Well, we...
HARRIS: Let me just ask it this way. Are you in favor of -- do you like the idea of a government-sponsored health insurance program?
ROHACK: Well, clearly, our principles are for. The principle is, we believe that, in America, to have universal access for health care for everyone, we have to preserve freedom of choice, freedom of the ability for physicians to practice in an environment that they think is important for their patients, and we believe that we should have a pluralistic system.
That's an American system. That means a private system and a public system working together to try and say, what's good in both systems., let's make those better. And what flaws can we get rid of that are in the private system and the public system to, again, focus on what's important. Every American having affordable, quality health insurance coverage with the ability for choice of their physician and the hospital they go to.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, Dr. Rohack, Tony asked you if you were for a government-sponsored health insurance option. This is what President Obama wants to do. Very recently, the AMA has said, in print, very clearly, we don't think this is the best way to handle this situation. But then you just told Tony that you're for it. So I'm confused. Can you clarify it for us?
ROHACK: Well, clearly, we have been around for 160 years, and we write and respond to things in print over those decades. Where we are right now is to say, we want to make sure that there's choice. And so, for example, our AMA policy says, there's a federal employee health benefit program right now that's government sponsored, it provides choice of options, it's the same benefit practice that Congress has.
Well, if it's good enough for Congress, why shouldn't it be good enough for the individuals who don't have health insurance provided by their employer? It provides the pooling mechanism. It provides choice. It provides the ability of the government to help subsidize based on a person's income level and you don't have to waste administratively by creating something brand new.
HARRIS: Well, James ...
ROHACK: I think...
HARRIS: James, forgive me here. Look, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box here, but, you know, Elizabeth mentioned that you've written that you're not in favor of it. I think I hear you switching that view. Look, another position that's been pretty clearly stated by your organization is a belief that a public plan would drive out private insurers. Now, do you actually believe that? Is that a rumor that is now false? Is that a line that's been tagged to the AMA that is absolutely inaccurate? Help us with this point.
ROHACK: Sure. What we were responding to was a position paper that the Senate Finance Committee came out and said, one option was to have a Medicare program for everyone. And our response to that was, well, you know, Medicare is going broke. And it's a system that, while it's a government system, if you're going to make that as your focus to expand everything, if you're someone over the age of 65 and you are moving to a new community, you'll find that many primary care physicians can't accept you into their practice anymore because of the way that that federal system pays for health care. They've never covered their costs.
And so it becomes very difficult for us to say, well, gee, that's the system that's going to have affordable health care coverage.
Everybody has choice. Everybody has the ability to buy in. We believe that there's a better system. And that system is to make sure that we can build on what's good in our current system and to get rid of the bad. So do we say that a public and a private . . .
HARRIS: What's bad? What's bad? What's bad? What's bad? What do we getting rid of? As we sort of whittle away at this, what's bad? What are we keeping? What's bad?
ROHACK: Well, we know there's administrative wastes that every insurance company has their own forms. And so why can't we just have one form? And one...
HARRIS: Well, why haven't we done it yet? I mean we've been talking about this for years and years and years and it seems whenever -- it seems as though whenever we get to talking about reform, that's the first thing we hear is, we can do with less of this paperwork. But we've been talking about that, doctor, for -- am I wrong on this, for years?
COHEN: Oh, no, we've been talking about it for...
ROHACK: Tony, I think you highlight very well. One of the problems we have is when physicians try to get together or private insurance tries to get together, the federal government's anti-trust lawyers come in and they say, oh, you can't talk to each other.
And so, as a result, we have a very fragmented system. In fact, we don't even have a system. And that's one of the reasons why the AMA pushed for having health information technology so that we can link together as physicians with hospitals to try and get rid of the unnecessary cost of duplication of tests, so that the patient when they see the physician, that physician has all the information they need to provide better care for the patient at the time that they're being seen.
We've been supportive of that. We're happy that the federal government, through the president in the stimulus package, provided those dollars. So we are committed, as the American Medical Association, to evolve our health care system to one that preserves choice, freedom, but, most importantly, everyone has affordable health insurance coverage that they own themselves..
HARRIS: Sure. Got you.
Elizabeth, jump in here.
COHEN: So, Dr. Rohack, it sounds like you're saying that now the American Medical Association is in favor of President Obama's plan to have a government-sponsored health care insurance out there that any American can choose. What do your members think about this? Because there is a very good chance that under this plan they would stand to make less money.
ROHACK: What we said was, we are supportive of a principle that says we have pluralism and a principle that preserves choice, freedom of practice, and something that we can do to get rid of the administrative waste. We are for looking at any option that's out there. And I think that's been one of the challenges that we've had, is there's been a lot of rhetoric of, well, what is a public plan? And so what we focused on is to say, well, if you have choice and you have the ability to purchase, based on your needs, there already exists a system called the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program. Congress has it. Federal employees have it. Why not allow individuals to purchase into that system that already exists? It would be less costly because you wouldn't have to create a whole brand new system.
So that's our AMA policy. We've had that for a while.
COHEN: So, doctor, if you were sitting in a room with President Obama and he says, "Dr. Rohack, tell me, are you with me or are you not? Are you with me on this plan to have a government-sponsored health insurance option out there, yes or no," what would you say to the president?
HARRIS: Some kind of a -- some kind of government-sponsored option out there, doctor.
ROHACK: We are for whatever we can achieve, which is affordable health insurance coverage for all Americans that preserves the freedom of choice, a pluralistic system, the ability for physicians to practice in the environment they want, and everybody is covered. And any plan that comes out, we're going to be looking at that and we're going to say, is it right for patients, is it going to allow the patients to choose and have access to their physicians.
Because we have examples of federal programs like Medicaid where the access to physicians and hospitals is very difficult because of the way of the payment system doesn't even cover your ability to keep your office open. So what we want to do is have something that works for patients and makes sure that, again, we build on the strength of our system and we get rid of the waste and the inefficiencies of the current system that we currently have.
HARRIS: OK, we're building, we're building. Incremental.
COHEN: C-changes (ph). C-changes.
HARRIS: We're building a bridge here.
Doctors, thanks for your time.
ROHACK: You bet you. Thanks for having us.
HARRIS: Yes, that's interesting. I think we're -- are we making a little progress here?
COHEN: But it's interesting to see sort of attitudes change as this whole process evolves, no question.
HARRIS: Yes.
OK, Elizabeth, thank you.
COHEN: Thank you. HARRIS: Heavy lifting done by you, as always.
We're back in a moment. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: We are learning new details about Michael Jackson's will. It was filed in court a short time ago. Among other things, it says that in the event his mother could not care for his children, he wanted Diana Ross to be their guardian.
Last night, thousands gathered at the famed Apollo Theater in New York to pay their last respects to Michael Jackson. Our T.J. Holmes takes us there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thousands of people, but just 600 at a time, filed through Harlem's legendary Apollo Theater on Tuesday to celebrate Michael Jackson's life and legacy. Some cried. Some laid flowers. Everybody danced.
JUSTIN AUSTIN, JACKSON FAN: I'm here to support Michael and just have his legacy live on, because his music will never die. Never die. He was a wonderful man.
GREG PACKER, JACKSON FAN: I came out to celebrate the life and legacy of Michael Jackson and to remember all the good things that he did in his life and the good music he brought to us.
SHARLOT ADRIND, JACKSON FAN: I wanted to pay tribute to someone whom I've loved ever since he was knee high.
HOLMES: Jackson was only nine years old when the Jackson Five won the Apollo's amateur night contest back in 1967.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were our Michael then. You are our Michael now. You will be our Michael forever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is our legend. Michael started here with his people, but he became world renowned.
HOLMES: Fans waited hours. Some waited all night long for a chance to pay their respects to the king of pop.
NATHANIEL JAMISON, JACKSON FAN: Michael Jackson? Oh, Lord, I thank God for Michael Jackson and what he left to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson will never die. That he's going to live right here forever.
ADRIND: You can feel the love that he has. And it was just giving out to everybody. And I've (INAUDIBLE).
HOLMES: T.J. Holmes, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Well, Larry King will have the latest on the Michael Jackson death investigation. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Well, you know, clicking on tweets from folks you don't know could get you into a world of trouble. This businessman in Houston found out the coffee shop owner has been getting spammed with Twitter porn messages lately.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHON LU, COFFEE SHOP OWNER: A little surprised. I was, you know, I was caught off guard. The sex thing I really find disturbing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Yes, that's not all you might find disturbing, experts say. You could also be opening up a computer virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LEE, TECHNOLOGY BYTES: It may clearly state that, you know, come look at pornography. Or it might say, you know, something more innocuous like, you know, how to make money or something like that. But you don't know ultimately what's on the other side of that link.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: All right, it is go time. We are pushing forward with the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM with Kyra Phillips.
