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U.S. Soldier Captured in Afghanistan; Will Mark Sanford Resign?; Jenny Sanford Flees to Florida; Jackson Video Released of Rehearsing Days Before Death; U.S. Treads Gently Amid Chaos in Honduras
Aired July 02, 2009 - 15:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Where is a missing U.S. soldier? Here is the bad news. It appears he has been captured by lethal insurgents. What will happen to the first U.S. soldier captured in Afghanistan since the war began?
Meanwhile, a massive Marine assault is now under way to drive out the Taliban. Can we do what the Russians couldn't?
GOV. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I wanted generally to apologize to every one of you all for letting you down.
SANCHEZ: Sanford watch. Will the scandal-ridden governor resign amid reports his wife has now left town?
The DEA is now in the mix -- what federal drug agents want to know about Michael Jackson's prescription drug abuse.
Live throughout the hour from Neverland, as your national conversation for Thursday, July 2, 2009, starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I am Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news.
This is a conversation. It's not a speech. And it is your turn to get involved.
Before we do anything else, I want to see if it is possible for us to be able to replay some of that video that we received moments ago. Now, the reason I want to show you is, this video came in. Well, I guess we are just going to go ahead and roll it now. Let's watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold for applause. Hold for applause.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: You know, it is amazing to look at. That is exactly what people would have seen had Michael Jackson lived. It is the last performance of Michael Jackson, just two days, in fact, before he passed on.
A lot of news coming out on the Michael Jackson front on this day. And we're going to be covering all -- all of it for you.
Now, I should tell you, the reason we got that video -- we hadn't planned to show you this at this point in this newscast. The reason we are able to show you this is because it was made exclusive to CNN. So, it was kind of one of those deals where, when it became available, we would turn it around and let you see it for yourself.
If we get a chance during this newscast, stand by, because we might be able to reroll that, re-rack that, as we say, and let you see that video one more time.
But, in the meantime, the story that we had planned to begin this newscast with, the story that is no doubt the most important story as far as the United States goes and its foreign policy and our fighting men and women, it is taking place right now in Afghanistan -- 4,000 Marines are right now fighting the Taliban in an assault that is being compared to something like during the Vietnam War with full use of helicopters.
And now we are also hearing that a U.S. soldier has been taken by the Taliban. In fact, he has been taken by a member of a group in the Taliban that has very close links with al Qaeda. This thing could get ugly. We are going to be following all parts of this story and we will bring you those developments by taking you into Afghanistan when we come back.
It's important. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Wow.
We are already getting a lot of reaction to that video we showed you moments ago. As a matter of fact, let's go to our Twitter board, if we can, Johnny. These are people who have just watched that video. Some of them are saying they found it to be a little eerie.
Let's start there with the one at the top. Thanks.
"Michael looked really good in the exclusive video. He sounds like himself and he has never -- like he has really been sick," it looks like it's saying there. "Back off."
All right. "Oh, my God, oh, my God, that Michael Jackson video gave me the chills. He sure looked good to me."
And then interesting, our old friend Michael Bates is weighing in on the situation in South Carolina, which we are going to be following extensively during this newscast, by the way, with the governor and his wife. "Sanford is demonstrating presidential qualities, decisiveness, good judgment, solid character -- Jenny Sanford, that is."
Great point. We get it.
All right, I told you moments ago that we are going to be taking you into Afghanistan. We have got two of our reporters, two of our correspondents who are poised to bring you the very latest details on what's going on there with our troops.
For some reason, we are having a problem making that signal work. So, stand by, because I'm going to be taking you there in just a minute. In the meantime, there is an important development I need to share with you regarding this Michael Jackson situation.
The death investigation has now taken a more serious turn, not unexpected, but serious, with word that now the DEA -- that's drug enforcement agents -- are now involved in the investigation.
Drew Griffin, he is on CNN's Special Investigations Unit. He's joining us live now from Los Angeles to fill us in.
Drew, not surprising, when you consider the DEA has access where local and state authorities may find some stonewalls. But what does this mean to this investigation?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: I think what we could say, interpret this as, it's becoming more focused on medications, on prescriptions.
The reason the DEA has been called in to help in this death investigation, Rick, is now to track the drugs that were being supplied or may have been supplied to Michael Jackson, which doctors, what drugs, and the quantities of drugs.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I don't get it, though. What can they do that cops in Los Angeles couldn't do for themselves and why?
GRIFFIN: Well, the DEA has power to look at these. There's a lot of regulations and rules regarding your medical records in the United States.
The DEA registers physicians. They register these drugs. They can keep track of the flow of those drugs. It's called the Drug Diversion Unit. This doesn't deal with cocaine and marijuana. This deals with the scheduled drugs that are prescription drugs that also need to be monitored by the DEA, because they have been shown to be abused in the past.
SANCHEZ: So, it sounds like it is access, that they would be able to have easier access, if nothing else, because they are a federal agency.
Let me ask you this, what a lot of people are thinking right now as they're watching us, this conversation between you and I. The fact that the DEA is now involved in this investigation, does it mean that we should take from that that it's more likely that Michael Jackson was suffering from some kind of prescription drug abuse?
GRIFFIN: I think it means there is a possibility of that, certainly from the friends who have been coming forward and the history that we have seen of this entertainer, that there is a history of that.
And even looking at that video of what appears to be, to me, a pretty healthy 50-year-old guy dancing around on stage, it doesn't show any immediate signs. We also know that he took that health screening by the entertainment group and was pronounced to be in pretty darn good health.
So, I think it is pointing that way, Rick. But, until this procedure is completely done, the medical examiner releases the results, we are really not going to know.
SANCHEZ: Well, I will tell you, it kind of comes into play with what is going on now.
We have just seen this video, Drew. I don't know. Did you get a chance to see it, by the way?
GRIFFIN: Yes. I was glued watching it, of course yes.
SANCHEZ: I know a lot of people at home don't know this. But you and I know this, because we're on TV, but, if you look thin on TV, you are really thin, because TV don't make you look thin, right?
GRIFFIN: That's right.
SANCHEZ: He looked thin, didn't he?
GRIFFIN: That guy looked very, very skinny. But he has always looked skinny.
You know what is amazing about Michael Jackson? When you think back at that trial where he is shuffling into the trial in his pajamas and he looked so frail, and then, like, I don't know, a week later or something, he is dancing on top of the SUV.
This guy, apparently, could turn it on and off. So, I don't think you can really read a whole lot into the fact that he is dancing up on stage.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Boy, he does look thin. He has always looked thin to me. So, what does this video prove? This video proofs that two days before he died, this guy was doing some dance moves and singing and following directions up on stage.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Yes, it proves, you know what, that he is very talented.
GRIFFIN: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: And that's what he looked like in that video, a talented entertainer.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: But he did seem to look thin. Drew, I'm going to let you go. I think what we are going to do on the backside is -- I think -- who is going to be calling in? Tell me again. Oh, all right. We do. We do have -- Dr. Sanjay Gupta has just called in
We are going to be getting his take after watching this video as well. Drew, thanks so much for your help.
By the way, not only are we going to be checking in with Dr. Sanjay Gupta to get his take on this. We are also going to be checking in. There is the video once again. I think he looks thin, almost raily. But you know what? We have just gotten two folks on Twitter who say he looks fantastic.
So, let's turn this into the national conversation it is. We are going to bring Dr. Sanjay Gupta into the conversation. We are going to have that story. We're also going to be taking you to obviously Afghanistan to find out what's going on there.
We apologize for the technical snafu with that.
And, as aforementioned, more problems for the embattled governor of South Carolina. His wife has left town. His own attorney general now wants his records. Look at this woman. That's a great-looking woman. She is a beautiful woman. It just seems so ironic that this story is turning the way it is with the mistress story. Anyway, it is another thing to talk about. We invite your comments.
And Michael Jackson's exclusive video right here.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, while we wait for our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is going to be hooking up with us in just a little bit -- obviously, we are changing the order of our newscast today. We have got a lot of things going on and some technical problems.
But the story we had intended to lead this newscast with is probably the most important story for all Americans. As interesting as the Michael Jackson story is, this probably has more import, more significance.
There is troubling news about American troops overseas today. Today, we are told that a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan is not at his base. Instead, he is in the hands of the Taliban. In fact, it is really worse. You know why? I have been reading about this group throughout the day. I have found out that this Taliban group has direct ties to al Qaeda. And it's a particular part of al Qaeda that is described as most lethal. There's a little of questions here.
First of all, let me ask you this question. How did this get -- how did this soldier get off the base? You see that sketch there on the right? That's the warlord who may now be heading this abduction operation. Heaven knows what he might do next. This guy doesn't have a good track record.
Let's bring in Atia Abawi now. She's joining me on the phone from Afghanistan.
Atia, are you there?
ATIA ABAWI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am. Hi, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Let me start with this. This is the first American soldier taken since the war began in 2001, at least according to my recollection and my readings thus far today. What happened here? It seems odd that a soldier would walk off the base or somehow be taken off of a base, isn't it?
ABAWI: It is absolutely odd, Rick.
We are getting a little bit of information coming in from both the U.S. military, as well as Taliban officials. We do hear that the U.S. soldiers, along with three Afghan soldiers, were actually captured by low-level militants, but then quickly sold to this Haqqani Network, this Taliban group that you were speaking of.
And you're absolutely right. It is a very dangerous Taliban network, as most of them are, but the Haqqanis are known to be brutal and known to be very powerful as well, and known to operate in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.
It is thought that he might have been sent over to Pakistan. The U.S., Afghan and Pakistani troops are trying to seal off that area to prevent his -- actually taking him to Pakistan at that moment, because it would be a harder mission to find him there.
SANCHEZ: So, we don't know how, why he wondered off the base. If somebody had gone on to the base to get him, somebody would have seen that. So, it doesn't -- at this point, do we know anything about his identity? Do we know who he is? And do we know if he may have had any kind of reason that would have motivated him for -- to walk off the base when no one was looking?
ABAWI: Well, right now, the U.S. military is being very, very careful with what information that they are leaking out, because it could get the U.S. soldier into jeopardy if we did know -- if we did report too much information on his identity, on why he left the base on anything involved in his capture.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: I get that. I get that. We will leave it alone then. I don't want to go there if we're going to put -- these are obvious questions that all of us have. But I also don't want to put this into a situation where we put him in harm's way.
Let me switch gears for you here now. At this very time, while you and I are talking about this, there is something going on that is being described as the largest air assault since the Vietnam War. This is also, by the way, President Obama's first major military operation against the Taliban.
Listen to the numbers here -- 4,000 Marines and sailors are moving in to the Helmand province to try and kick out the insurgents. And here is what different, folks. Think about this for a minute. The troops' plan is to hold these positions. Now, I know that sounds bizarre.
But let me show you what I'm talking about on this map. Thanks, Dan,. Thanks, Dan, for putting that up. Let me go to the map and show you the area again. All right, I am circling the area right there, right? That's the province. That's the Helmand province.
The problem is, in the past, we have gone in -- same thing that happened in Iraq, by the way, as I circle this. We would take something like this, but then after we would take it, what would we do? I'm drawing the arrow in. I'm drawing the arrow out. We would leave.
And then, as soon as you leave, guess what? The guys who we chased out, and where are they going? Over here into Pakistan, right? What would they do when we left? They came back in. So, it was really that cat and mouse game that continued. We're being told now.
And, Atia, you are here to confirm this or give us whatever amplification on this that you can that, this time, what they want to go in, hold the position, correct?
ABAWI: That's absolutely right.
And now they have the manpower to do that. Helmand province was actually -- there was about 7,000 coalition troops in that province, trying to secure and hold that area. But they didn't have that manpower. Now that the U.S. troops are there, with this new influx, they have the manpower to take care of that.
That 7,000 coalition troops has now turned to over 13,000 in that region. That helps them to secure and hold the areas. And that's exactly what they are trying to do. They are trying to prove to the Afghan people that they will stay to build institutions and help improve their lives and that there are better options than the Taliban.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And that's important, I would think. Back me up on this if you think I am right or if this seems to be the prevailing thought there.
If you just go in with missiles and with soldiers, you never really establish a base there, and then you leave, you are seen by the people, the residents of that part of Afghanistan, as kind of a hit- and-miss operation. They don't establish ties with you. They don't like you. They only see you as soldiers.
But if you go in and you stay for a while and you get to know the people there, then you are starting to win over hearts and minds. It seems to be that that hearts and minds philosophy is part of this new strategy, is it not?
ABAWI: It is definitely a part of this new strategy. And it is going to be a very important part, because we have to remember, it has been almost eight years now since the war on terror in Afghanistan has begun.
And the Afghan people are losing trust in the coalition forces. They don't trust the Taliban, but, at the same time, the Taliban are playing a P.R. game. And they are winning the P.R. game at the moment. So, right now, they have to build that trust with the Afghan people, a trust that they had in the beginning of the war, but a trust that has slowly faded.
And, right now, they have to build it back up. And that's exactly what the mission is intended to do at the moment -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Atia, I will tell you what. You are doing a great job. You're there. You're tough. You are in Afghanistan following this for us, bringing us up to date on what is going on. And I just want to tell you how much I thank you for being there to do that for us.
ABAWI: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right.
If you are just now getting home from work and you haven't seen this, this is it. This is it, the Michael Jackson video not yet seen before. This was like the last video of him performing on a show that many Americans and many people all over the world would eventually have seen. Instead, he died two days later.
Sanjay Gupta is going to join us in just a little bit to take us through this video and new developments that he has as well. As we go out, let's put the sound up on this thing. Let's listen to it together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold for applause. Hold for applause. Slow...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Continuing our national conversation, welcome back. I am Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN. Boy, there's a lot going on, isn't there? And we're trying to take your through it as best we possibly can, some of it coming in at times when we didn't expect it to come in, like this now.
What's another day without a little drama out of South Carolina?
You ready for this. First lady Jenny Sanford who heard her husband say -- oh, my goodness -- who heard her husband say on national television that his mistress was his real soul mate, but he would try and work things out with his wife, she has packed and left, according to a report, fled to her parents' place in Florida.
There she is, elegant woman. What isn't precisely clear is when she actually took off. Was it before Governor Sanford suggested that he is still in love with his mistress, Maria Belen Chapur, seen there, from Argentina or after?
And now we also have this bit of information that is just now coming in to us. About an hour ago, CNN learned that Governor Sanford is going to follow his wife down to Florida with the intent of spending the Fourth of July with the family.
Now, keep this in mind. Sanford supporters have said that his survival in office is inextricably linked to his somehow being able to put his marriage back together with the woman who he was married to, but probably insulted when he told all of the world that his real soul mate was the lady in Argentina.
So, after his blockbuster remarks about his mistress, is Governor Sanford being forced to chase the first lady and beg for some forgiveness? Is there a political part to this story, you can't avoid asking?
Let's put that question to Candy Crowley, who has been watching this drama unfold.
What a story. Candy, what's going on here?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have some parallel universes going on here, sort of every which way.
You have got the political reality that's going on. And that is that most Republicans in South Carolina and quite a few Democrats, obviously, but just looking at the Republicans, most of them have called publicly for Mark Sanford to resign. Many of those are privately trying to keep the lines of communication open with him and try to urge him to step down.
But what we got today from the statement from the governor's office is that he has no intention of stepping down, that what he wants to do is repair the damage he has done to his marriage and to restore the trust of the people of South Carolina. SANCHEZ: So, he is going to fight this thing. I mean, he is going to basically, you know, put that line in the sand and say, I'm not leaving.
But there is Lindsey Graham, who, I understand, is the godfather of his children; is that right?
CROWLEY: Yes. He is very close to the Sanford family, to both of them.
SANCHEZ: And here's Lindsey Graham this Sunday talking about his good friend and governor. Here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I hope that Mark can reconcile with his family, and I will support him continuing in office if that's what he wants to do. The key for him personally and professionally is to reconcile with his family.
I think most South Carolinians appreciate what Mark has tried to do as governor, a reform-minded governor who still, I think, has the ability to change our state for the better if he can reconcile with his family. And that's my main concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. I heard him say three -- no, I think it was four times there, because I was counting -- that if he wants to keep his job, he needs to reconcile with his family. In other words, he has to go back to his wife on bended knee if he has to and make this thing work.
Right? Or did I hear that wrong?
CROWLEY: Well, that certainly seems to be what the senator is saying, but I would also point out to you that that was last weekend. That was the second time, in fact, that Senator Graham said, look, I'm the godfather of one of the children, I'm very close to this family. My first priority is to see this family repaired, but I stand by him and I want him to continue as governor.
And then what we had on, earlier this week, I can't remember if it was Tuesday or Wednesday, we had this extraordinary interview with The Associated Press where he talked about his lover being his soul mate and trying to fall back in love with his wife, and revealing that there were more women. We haven't heard from Lindsey Graham since. What we do know is he has spoken to Governor Sanford.
So, listen, there is no doubt that there has been a growing wave of people in South Carolina who want the governor to go. But when I talked to a source yesterday, they said, listen, he is defiant. And they pointed out and said, look, this is very much to type with Mark Sanford.
They pointed out to me that when he was in Congress, if you go back and look, there were many votes that were 433-1 in the House. And the one was Mark Sanford.
They point out that when the stimulus money came to South Carolina, Mark Sanford, despite the fact that Republicans and Democrats wanted that money, stood his ground and said, I'm not going to take it. It was a very lonely battle.
So, they think this is certainly according to type, and what we now see from this statement from the governor is he's not going.
SANCHEZ: I'll tell you, it's been a while since we have seen something as interesting as this. But then, again, there was that president -- I think his middle name was Jefferson -- who was in a similar situation, fought this thing through, and ended up keeping his job, right?
CROWLEY: Absolutely. It was little different simply because we did not have what was a very public open split between President Clinton and the first lady, which we certainly do have with the Sanfords.
SANCHEZ: Yes, you're right. You know, I hadn't thought of that. You're right.
CROWLEY: Yes, as a soap opera.
SANCHEZ: That does seem to make it a little bit different here, although I'll tell you, this guy got maybe a little bit of a save this week with the situation of, well, Michael Jackson, to be perfectly honest with you.
CROWLEY: Well that -- and I will tell you, too, just one thing, Rick, which I forgot to add, which is that the state law enforcement agency which was looking to into any ties between taxpayer money and these visits to the mistress came out and gave the governor a clean bill of health, said they found absolutely no evidence that state money was spent for any of these visits. So that is good news for the governor.
SANCHEZ: It certainly does work in his favor.
We're going to be continuing to watch this, as are most South Carolinians and many Americans as well.
Candy Crowley all over it.
Thanks for bringing us up to date on this.
All right. Here's what we're going to do when we come back. We're going to be talking to Sanjay Gupta. We had him and we lost him, but now we've got him back. And when we come back, we're going to let him break down what he is able to see from this video.
And while we are talking about the video, why don't we just go ahead and show the video now going to break. For those of you joining us late, this is video that CNN originally had exclusive access to. This is video of Michael Jackson two days before his death. It's kind of eerie to watch. Let's do it together.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. There's the Big Board.
Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Once again, a lot of news is happening while we're coming to you today at 3:00, as it often does. And I just received this note.
It's Jenny Sanford's explanation as to whether or not she is going to forgive her husband and her assessment of what he has to do now and what he has done. I'm going to read that to you in just a minute.
But as promised, let's bring in Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He's out in L.A., I believe, and he's been following this situation -- or in California. He's been following this situation. I believe moments ago he was able to watch this tape with us.
Sanjay, are you there?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm here, Rick. Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: Did you see the video? And I'm going to ask you about his weight, his movements, anything that you saw in this that may make you think that -- remember -- and I guess for those of you joining us, as I ask this question, remember, this is the most recent video seen to this date of him before he died. This was two days before he died.
Take it away, Sanjay.
GUPTA: He is obviously very active here. He is moving all parts of his body well. He is singing.
You know, I mean, it's one of those things, Rick, where you are trying to piece something together. As a doctor, I'm looking for the big things, his lung capacity, his heart being able to be that active. I don't know how long the rehearsal took, but obviously it's a physically exhausting experience, and someone who is having some sort of cardio or pulmonary problems might have a hard time doing that.
Also, just the singing and being able to keep up with all the dance moves, he looks pretty engaged. So, I don't want to read too much into this, Rick, but in a nutshell, it doesn't look like someone who is very sick to me. Maybe not quite as brisk in terms of his movements as we are used to seeing him from years ago, but not bad -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Although, you know, maybe it's because I have been fighting weight all my life and I just have a tendency to think it's kind of hard to be that thin. I know you're a svelte guy, but when I'm looking at this video, for a 50-year-old guy, he looks very -- heck, I'm going to use the word that I think most people have been using on Twitter. He looks skinny.
Does that come into the equation at all? Does it matter?
GUPTA: Yes, he's thin, there's no question about it. And I think there have been some varying reports on his weight, and it is low, no question about it, especially for a guy, who I understand, his height to be around 5'10". So that's for sure.
I think, you know, the bigger question, Rick, which I think you're driving at is, what does that mean? Is he frail? Is he frail, I think.
And, you know, when I think of a frail person, I think of someone who's having a hard time conducting activities of daily living -- getting out of bed, doing the things that they're supposed to do. So it's hard for me to sort of equate someone who's frail with someone who's able to, you know, get up on stage like that and dance the way that he's dancing. And again, be engaged.
Obviously, they've been rehearsing. You can tell by the rhythmic movements between him and his dancers, this is something that's been ongoing for some time. And it looks like someone who's present.
He's thin, but I guess I just don't know what to make of that necessarily.
SANCHEZ: Well, let's put a punctuation on this thing, because I watched you last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," and it was interesting to see you talking about, look, when you put the fact that there are people coming out and saying that he was desperate for prescription drugs, and when you add that with the fact that DEA, last night and today, confirmed that they're going to be part of this investigation now, as a doctor, what's going on with you? What are you thinking that may have been going on with this gentleman?
GUPTA: Well, you know, it's piecing this all together, starting from -- you know, looking at this video, I'm trying to piece that all together. Given that he looks, again, to me -- and I don't want to read too much into looking at a video. There's only so much you can tell. But looking at that, he looks like he's active, he's able to move around OK.
And the reason that's important, Rick, is because if you think of someone like this who has died two days later, you think what caused it had to more likely be some sort of sudden event, as opposed to some sort of chronic event; right? Something that sort of builds up over time. He probably would have been sick two days before. He doesn't look that sick to days before.
So, what sorts of things caused sudden problems? Well, we know with cardiac arrest, what can cause cardiac arrest is someone has heart disease and, you know, they've been sick for some time. They would look different than he does now in this video, so that's when you start to think of things like a sudden electrical disturbance of the heart, what sort of things cause that, abnormalities in your electrolytes, drugs, medications, certainly, ,as you have mentioned. DEA, we know, is investigating things. That's certainly very high on my list.
You know, when they heard the first autopsy, my thinking, Rick, is that if there had been something really obviously wrong with his heart, like some sort of congenital deformity, they probably would have mentioned that. They didn't. So that goes a lot lower on my list.
But that's sort of how I start thinking about something like this.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It's almost the process of deduction, huh? I mean, you take some of the things away, and what you've got left with, you go, him, ah-ha.
And I know that obviously it's you as an expert having the right to be able to comment on these things. We'll wait and see what some of the official reports say.
But Sanjay, as usual, you're the best. Thanks so much for hustling to get on the air with us and take us through this. We certainly appreciate it.
Thanks, man.
GUPTA: Welcome back, by the way.
SANCHEZ: Hey, thanks. Appreciate it.
Another one of my colleagues, Larry King, is going to be standing by to join us in just -- I mentioned that I was watching Sanjay and Larry together last night. Well, Larry is doing something special tonight. He has got unencumbered access to Neverland Ranch.
In fact, he's doing his show tonight from Neverland. Exclusive access to Neverland on "LARRY KING LIVE," tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. So I called him this morning and he's going to be joining us in just a bit. He's going to be taking you through that. Also this -- President Obama uses a so-called coup to trump Hugo Chavez in Honduras; right? But is the president also backing the process of a lawmaker?
Look what's going on there now. These are live pictures that are coming in from Honduras.
Remember we showed you the coup; right? Well, this is now. This isn't a coup. This is people out there who are complaining about CNN and about President Obama. And they like their new president and they don't like the guy who was there before.
So this thing's getting complicated, but I'll take you through it.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. I told you just a little while ago that we had gotten this paper. This is interesting.
Imagine if you had done something somewhat unacceptable to your spouse, your husband or your wife. And how would they react? This is how Jenny Sanford is reacting.
You ready? I'm going to read it to you.
Johnny (ph), can you look over my shoulder? Let me get this pen, we'll read along together. This is Jenny Sanford's statement she just put out to the media. Listen to this.
"There is no question that Mark's behavior is inexcusable. Actions have consequences, and he will be dealing with those consequences for a long while. Trust has been broken and will need to be rebuilt."
Again, this is Jenny Sanford talking about Governor Mark Sanford of South Carolina.
"Mark will need to earn back that trust. First and foremost, with his family, and also with the people of South Carolina."
Let me go to this other graph here that I was reading during the break.
Johnny (ph), you picking this up here? I don't know if we've got video.
"Mark showed a lack of judgment in his recent actions as governor. However, his far more egregious offenses were committed against God, the institution of marriage and family, our boys and me."
They have several children.
"Mark has stated that his intended determination is to save our marriage and to make amends to the people of the South Carolina. I hope he can make good on those intentions. And for the sake of our boys, I leave the door open to it. In that spirit of forgiveness, it is up to the people and elected officials of South Carolina to decide whether they will give Mark another chance as well."
Interesting comment just released moments ago from the first lady of the state of South Carolina. And on and on it goes.
Let's talk about another story that I have been following for some time now being from this part of the world at one time in my life. Why are people in Honduras holding signs critical of Barack Obama? This is an interesting story.
Let me show this to you.
All right. Take a look.
These are protesters actually backing what the rest of the world is seeing as a coup in their country. These people are on the streets saying, no. No coup. OK? We like what happened here. In other words, these folks are happy their old president, Manuel Zelaya, was kicked out. And even if President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton say they don't like it, and even if the OAS says they don't like it, and the U.N. and the European Union say they don't like it, and are saying that he should be reinstated, they disagree. They like the new guy. They want the old guy to stay out.
Now, here is opposite reaction. This is Hondurans the other day when they heard the other guy had been kicked out.
All right. This is video from Sunday, when the president was kicked out by the supreme court. And these are people that have taken to the street to protest his ouster.
So what gives here? I mean, what does President Obama have to do with all of this?
Let's go to Karl Penhaul. He's following the situation. He's in Tegucigalpa..
Also, we've got Kevin Casas-Zamora from the Brookings Institution, is going to be joining us on this.
Karl, let me begin with you on this.
All right. We've got one group of Hondurans who want the old president back. And we've got another group of Hondurans who are protesting today who are saying we're glad he's gone, kick the bum out.
Whose voice is going to win out here?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think you've really got to look closely at the signs here.
What we're seeing ostensibly is that two large groups of people are out there on the streets because today, in Tegucigalpa, the Honduran capital, there was many thousands of people out there in support of reinstating the ousted president, Manuel Zelaya. The pictures that you're referring to there, a lot of people in the northern city of San Pedro Sula.
But if you look closely, you'll see that a lot of these people are almost uniformed. They've got white T-shirts on. They're holding printed signs. This is not a spontaneous demonstration.
People are giving out T-shirts. People are giving out printed placards. And there, what the protesters in support of the ousted president say is that these pro-interim government protests are actually being organized by the two leaders. They say they're being organized by the business and political elites of this country, and they say that a lot of these people are being forced to attend those marches under threat of being fired from their jobs if they don't go along, Rick.
So that's why we have to look closely at what's going on in these two marches.
SANCHEZ: I get that. And oftentimes I know that these things are orchestrated.
Let me bring in my expert in this -- on this story, as well. Kevin Casas-Zamora from the Brookings Institution.
You know, this is an interesting story, and I'm going to try and explain this to most Americans who are watching this right now, because there's really two things going on here.
First of all, when President Obama comes out and says this coup is wrong and that guy should be reinstated, he's really hurting Hugo Chavez and the rest of the leftists in Latin America who would never have expected that kind of response from an American president; right? After all, the guy who got kicked out was a lefty himself.
KEVIN CASAS-ZAMORA, SR. POLICY FELLOW, BROOKINGS INST.: Well, thank you, Rick, for having me here.
It is a very murky situation all around. And there's very peculiar things happening.
I think what President Obama did was the right thing, but also the smart thing. And as you imply in your comments, President Obama took away a very powerful weapon from Hugo Chavez. I think that by showing in a very unequivocal way that military coups are not to be accepted anymore in the Americas, President Obama is giving a very powerful message.
SANCHEZ: OK. But here's where I'm going to disagree with you. Here's the problem with this -- OK -- and you probably know it as well as I do.
This guy was no saint. What this guy Zelaya was doing is he was trying to keep himself in office on something that was extra- constitutional. And when the supreme court told him, sir, you can't do that, ,and he was told that by one of his military officials, he fired that military official, just like Nixon did with Archibald Cox in this country, and we criticized him.
So, isn't President Obama wrong to be putting his arm around a guy who has done something illegal who, by the way, may have been gotten rid of legally? I mean, when we call this a coup, was this really a coup, or was he just removed by the supreme court according to their constitution?
CASAS-ZAMORA: I mean, there's -- make no mistake, I mean, there's plenty of blame to go around. And President Zelaya is largely to blame for this political crisis. And yet, the fact remains that, you know, sending in the military to deal with the guy is not the way to go.
SANCHEZ: Right.
CASAS-ZAMORA: I mean, one would have expected that some kind of institutional procedure would have been set in motion.
I mean, when Nixon was doing -- I mean, it's very interesting that you mentioned Nixon here, because when Richard Nixon was doing nasty stuff to his opponents here in the U.S., nobody called the military to deal with the guy.
SANCHEZ: Right.
CASAS-ZAMORA: There was a certain procedure...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, maybe that's the difference between our country and some of the countries where guys like you and I hail from, south of the border, which, you know, we kind of envy. But nonetheless, you think this is the might right move by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and President Obama, because in the end he's kind of -- he's cut the legs off of Hugo Chavez, who you know would have been holding a news conference the very next day saying look at those Yankees, they put the military up to this.
Right?
CASAS-ZAMORA: I think it's very much the smart move, because it marks a clean break with the past. And we're talking here about, you know, about a very troubled past in U.S./Latin-American relations. And the history of the U.S. meddling in Latin-American politics is very controversial. And as you know well, it has not always come on the side of democracy.
SANCHEZ: No. I get that.
CASAS-ZAMORA: So this is a very powerful message.
SANCHEZ: I get that. The only thing is, as you and I talk about this -- and I think as viewers are listening to this conversation, they probably get it as well -- it's not cut and dry, man. This is not one of those things where you say, well, we know he's absolutely, resolutely right.
I mean, there are some questions here coming from the right, arguably, and many of them are correct that he may not be taking on the right advocate here in this guy Zelaya. But we'll see how this thing plays out.
And we thank you, sir, for taking time to take us through it.
CASAS-ZAMORA: My pleasure.
SANCHEZ: All right.
All right. Larry King is going to be joining me in just a little bit. The king!
I was watching him last night, and he said he was going to be doing a show from Neverland. And I knew it was going to be a big hit so, so I called him.
There's something else I did last night having to do with Larry King I'll share with you when I come back, and I'll tell him to his face.
Stay with us. I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: What in the world is the Neverland Ranch? I mean, we've all heard about it, right? But what is this? And what does it really look like? And what was Michael Jackson's daily routine there at the Neverland Ranch when he was there?
I heard my colleague last night mention that he would be doing his show from Neverland, and it just kind of perked my ears. That's right, Larry King is going to have exclusive access to Neverland tonight. So, we put a call in to him this morning and, bang, there he is, live from Santa Barbara County.
Larry King is joining us now.
Larry, you there?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Rick, I'm right here. I'm not there yet. I'm sitting on a plane. We're waiting to take off. And I'm heading up there in about five minutes, and I'll be there in a half hour, and then we've got, I guess, 45-minute ride up to the ranch.
SANCHEZ: Hey, you know, by the way, speaking of something completely different, before going to bed last night I took out your book, "My Remarkable Journey," and I started reading it.
KING: You couldn't put it down.
SANCHEZ: You're funny. I mean, you know, Suzanne (ph) and the kids are still in Florida, and they're coming up tonight, but I was sitting there embarrassed because I was laughing by myself.
KING: Well, in fact, I did a show a week ago in Vegas, standup comedy. My wife Shawn opened, she did singing. And I love that. In fact, if I wasn't doing what I'm doing I'd probably be a comedian.
SANCHEZ: You wanted to be -- I read that last night.
Hey, did you see this Michael Jackson thing just a little while ago?
KING: I did, yes, right before I left the house. In fact, I'm sitting with Jermaine on the plane. He's going to be with us on the show tonight. He hasn't seen it yet.
But I saw it. I thought it was extraordinary. I know it's a sore subject, but I thought he looked fine. SANCHEZ: Yes. Well, I'm reading some tweets here. One of them, Southern Girl, says, "Rick Sanchez, you don't know what you're talking about. He's always looked that thin. He looks fine."
Another one comes in. Tazler (ph) Girl is telling me, "In the video he looks very thin and very frail."
Everybody's got a different opinion of this thing.
KING: Well, I'll tell you, that's weird, because I was with him about 18 months ago at a dinner in Los Angeles, and I thought he looked better than he looked a year and a half ago. In fact, I didn't think he looked thin. It's all perspective.
SANCHEZ: Hey, before we run out of time, what are you going to answer tonight? What are you going in there hoping to find out? Because I'm curious as to what this place looks like, which we've all heard so much about over the last decade.
KING: I have the same curiosity you have. I've never been there. I'm going to do some -- I'll take a walking tour. I've got Jermaine to guide me. Couldn't have a better person than that.
And to me it's all a total mystery. I'm fascinated by it. My wife was there for Miko Brando's wedding, which Michael was the best man at. So I'll let you know all about it tonight.
SANCHEZ: Larry King, I'll look forward to it, man. It should be fantastic.
And if anybody can ask the right questions, you can depend on Larry to do so.
Here's Suzanne Malveaux. She's joining us now from "THE SITUATION ROOM" in Washington, D.C.
