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Ousted Honduran President Blocked from Returning; Dissent Among Iran's Clerics; Steve McNair's Death Investigation; Reactions to Sarah Palin's Decision to Resign; Dissent Among Iran's Clerics; Michael Jackson's Media Coverage; Statue of Liberty's Crown Open to Public Again
Aired July 05, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, no landing. The ousted president of Honduras tries to fly back into his country, but the military blocks the runways. Where is he now?
Stern warning. Britain and the international community turn up the heat on the Iranian government about harassment and intimidation. And new evidence tonight the opposition may be gaining ground.
A deadly mystery. What's behind the death of a former football star and his girlfriend? Police speak out.
Called to task. The media coverage of Michael Jackson's death is being criticized as disrespectful. A high-profile family friend joins us live to talk about it live right here on the news.
The news starts right now.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live in Los Angeles.
We begin with breaking news out of Central America tonight. The deposed president of Honduras managed to land but not where he wanted.
Just a few hours ago live here on CNN, high drama in the skies over the Honduran capital. People anxiously crowded around the airport as a lone jet swooped low over the city. Aboard, Jose Manuel Zelaya trying to return to reclaim his office, but the Honduran military prevented the jet from landing. And it was forced to land in neighboring Nicaragua before apparently heading for El Salvador just minutes ago.
CNN's Karl Penhaul was at the airport as the drama unfolded.
And Karl, it now appears at least one of Zelaya's supporters was killed during this tense showdown today.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I've got confirmation of that from the Honduran Red Cross and spoke to one of their officials. They said one man, a 20-year-old or in his 20s, did die. They say that he was shot in the head. He received a bullet shot to the head.
The Honduran Red Cross also say that eight people are in the hospital wounded. They say that five of those people are women. However, of the wounded, they say most of those, because they are cut either with stones or with glass, the Red Cross suggests that that could be that not only did the Honduran military opened fire -- we know that, we saw that from a CNN team on the ground.
We also know that the military opened fire with tear gas. There was a stampede at that stage and so what the Honduran Red Cross suggests is a lot of those other injuries they're seeing is because people fell over and were trampled.
Also, the protesters and organizers of today's protest say they believe that the casualty toll is higher. They say that the numbers of casualties that they're working on is at least three people dead.
Now talking to one man, his story sounded very convincing. He was covered from head to toe in blood and he said that he tried to carry an 8-year-old boy out of that melee, out of that scrum when it occurred. He said that that boy had been shot and he said that boy had also died, Don.
LEMON: All right. CNN's Karl Penhaul.
Karl, thank you very much for your reporting.
Luis Carlos Velez is an anchor at our sister station, CNN en Espanol. He joins us now to put the Honduran crisis in perspective, especially as it relates to the rest of Latin America.
Hello, sir. Besides the spectacle of it all, what does this mean to Americans? Why should Americans care about this story?
LUIS CARLOS VELEZ, ANCHOR, CNN EN ESPANOL: Don, good evening. Especially two very important points. Number one, how fragile democracy is here in the region, in Latin America. This is because we haven't seen a coup d'etat in Latin America since the Haiti situation that we witnessed in 2003. It has been a very stable region since then. We haven't seen anything like that.
And number two, the relations that the United States is having right now with Latin America and with especially Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela. We know that the continent is pretty much divided between the countries that support Chavez and the countries that oppose Mr. Chavez, and he's leaning to leftist governments. So, Mr. Zelaya recently has been seen as somebody that is leaning towards this Venezuelan point of view about how things are -- have to be made and have to be managed in those countries, Don.
LEMON: As we look at those amazing pictures that were coming out of that airport today, I mean, Juan Carlos -- Luis Carlos, I should say, just pretty amazing stuff to look at. And, you know, the military blocking the runway or what have you. When you look at all of these people who were out there, is it really realistic for Zelaya to think that he can come back in and gain control of this country again?
VELEZ: Don, we have to analyze this saying that apparently there's a big difference between what the international community believes is right and what the people in Honduras believe is right.
The most recent survey about popularity of Mr. Zelaya said that pretty much only 30 percent of the population was in favor of his government. Pretty much 70 percent of the population thinks that he was leaning towards Venezuela, leaning towards President Chavez, and they didn't like that. That's why, you know, the Supreme Court and the people, the majority of people are actually supporting this coup d'etat.
Now, number two, international community are thinking that this is a wrong thing. Coup d'etats are not well seen in the international community and they want democracy, including the United States. So that's why they want President Zelaya to go back to the country.
LEMON: OK. All right. Luis Carlos Velez with our sister station, CNN en Espanol. Thanks for adding some perspective to this story for us this evening.
VELEZ: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Tonight in Iran, there are growing signs of political discontent, even among the country's religious elite. High-ranking clerics and seminary students have now come out publicly and called last month's election skewed. It is perhaps the most direct challenge yet to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, who declared Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the undisputed winner.
Stanford University Iranian scholar Abbas Milani spoke to CNN tonight about the rising dissent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBAS MILANI, IRANIAN SCHOLAR, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Sometimes regimes that have big cracks in them continue to survive by cracking people's bones and this is exactly what this regime has tried to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, even though public street demonstrations have been shut down, protesters have been taking to rooftops at night to shout Allah Akbar, God is great. It has become a rallying cry for the opposition. This type of nocturnal demonstration has been going on for three weeks now.
CNN's Reza Sayah has been covering the tensions in Iran since before the election. He joins us now by telephone from Philadelphia with the very latest.
Reza, what exactly does this mean for Iran right now? You've got these nocturnal demonstrations. You've got these clerics coming out against the election. What does this mean for Iran?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Don, the government crackdown ended the mass street protest and demonstration in Iran. And the question is, now what? Is the opposition movement over? When you have a powerful group come out and make a statement like this, the answer is, no, it's not over. There is still dissent and defiance, but it looks like it has shifted into a different forum and there continues to be strong evidence that cracks and divisions are forming within the religious establishment.
LEMON: Yes. People may say, well, what does it mean that these clerics, you know, are coming out? Isn't President, you know, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, isn't he the president? It's not like being a president here in the United States. These clerics really have a lot of influence here.
SAYAH: Yes. And let me put it to you in perspective. Iran calls itself a democracy, but Islam and the word of God trumps all laws and all democratic institutions.
So, that's why these senior clerics in the religious city of Qom have so much clout and influence. And in this case, one particular group, and it's important to note this particular group doesn't represent all clerics, it's just one group, they're using their clout to go up against the establishment and the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei. And it's this face-off between religious power houses that's really unprecedented and shows the divisions within the religious establishment.
On one hand, you have Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, who is supposed to be the ultimate word on most matters. He's come out and stood squarely behind President Ahmadinejad and said these elections are over and anyone who says otherwise is going against the regime. On the other hand, you have these very influential clerics who are clearly rejecting the most powerful man in Iran and saying, no, this is not over.
LEMON: Reza, venture a guess -- that this is going to reignite the opposition.
SAYAH: Yes, I mean, there's a few reasons why this is good news for the opposition movement. First of all, they now have some more influential clerics behind them and they can use any support they can get. Also, the Iranian government has shown no hesitation in aggressively going after average citizens, even opposition political leaders to shut them up. But clearly, it's not going to be as easy going after senior clerics with batons and clubs.
And then with this statement you have to wonder what's going to happen to the government's official position that all the post election turmoil was the fault of foreign governments who wanted to destabilize Iran. That allegation, that claim is going to be much tougher for the Iranian people to believe if you have some of the most powerful clerics in the country coming out and saying, no, the government is to blame.
LEMON: Reza, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
We heard more from police today on the violent death of former NFL quarterback Steve McNair. You'll hear the latest details. Also, the search grows more urgent for a serial killer in South Carolina.
And check it out. Twitter is exploding right now as select fans find out they're going to the Michael Jackson memorial service. And guess what? The tickets are already hitting eBay.
Join on through Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. Log on, I should say. We'll get your comments on the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Checking the latest developments following the death of Michael Jackson. E-mails have been sent to more than 8,000 people who will receive a pair of tickets to Jackson's memorial service on Tuesday. More than 1.5 million people had registered.
Meantime, an assistant L.A. police chief said Forest Lawn Cemetery is working with the Jackson family apparently ironing out details on a private funeral service. Those 8,750 people randomly chosen to receive tickets to the Jackson memorial service have been instructed to pick them up tomorrow at Dodger Stadium.
And check out Twitter. Everyone is talking about it. We're going to talk to one lucky fan later this hour who was able to get a ticket to Michael Jackson memorial service -- Michael Jackson's memorial service.
And check out eBay. There are people there already trying to cash in. One person is posting his ticket for $8,000 if you buy it right now. $8,000 on eBay.
Well, make sure you tune in for a "CNN PRESENTS" special on the life and music of Michael Jackson. "MAN IN THE MIRROR" airs tonight, 11:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN. And then on Tuesday, join us for around the clock coverage of the memorial service, the memorial celebrating the life of this worldwide pop icon as family, friends and fans, well, they all say goodbye. "MICHAEL JACKSON THE MEMORIAL," CNN, all day Tuesday starting on "AMERICAN MORNING" at 6:00 a.m. Eastern -- 6:00 a.m. Eastern, "AMERICAN MORNING."
President Obama is on his way to Russia at this hour, and he has some major problems to tackle.
Also, Sarah Palin's sudden announcement. What's next for the soon-to-be former Alaskan governor?
And we heard more from police today on the violent death of former NFL quarterback Steve McNair. You're going to hear the latest details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Was it a murder-suicide? Nashville police are not yet saying as they investigate the shooting deaths of NFL quarterback Steve McNair and 20-year-old Sahel Kazumi or Kazemi, I should say, described as his girlfriend. The bodies of both were found yesterday at a downtown Nashville condominium. Police discovered a gun under the body of Kazemi, who apparently had been dating the married McNair several months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON AARON, METROPOLITIAN NASHVILLE POLICE: While it is clear that Steve McNair's death is a homicide as a result of being shot four times, the police department is not yet classifying Miss Kazemi's death. She does have a single gunshot wound to the side of the head, but there is more investigation required. We're going to be interviewing persons throughout the day today and probably for the next several days. I would expect that it will be a number of days before the classification is placed on Miss Kazemi's death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: McNair's death has stunned Nashville and the entire NFL community. He played 13 seasons of pro ball, all but two years with Tennessee, leading the Titans to their only Super Bowl appearance back in 2000. Steve McNair was 36 years old.
Sahel Kazemi's family is already speaking out about this tragedy, talking to CNN affiliate WSMV Television. Well, Kazemi's sister says she can't believe the deadly turn of events or what could have led up to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEPIDE SALMANI, SISTER OF SHOOTING VICTIM (via telephone): She was very young, very pretty, very loving. She would never hurt a person. Outgoing. Really very independent, very strong.
We were supposed to be celebrating Fourth of July, and 5:00 I got a phone call from my brother. He said go watch the news. So I went to, you know, watch the news, and I saw it, and we both first assuming that that's her because they did not release the name until like 11:00, 10:00. So we were hoping that it's not her. We had the feeling that it was her because she would be the only young woman with him at that time as far as we knew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And Nashville police say Kazemi was arrested for DUI early Friday morning. Both McNair and Kazemi's bodies were discovered yesterday afternoon.
It has been a tragic holiday weekend and a terrifying week in Cherokee County, South Carolina, where victims of an apparent serial killer have been buried. Funeral services were held today for 50- year-old Gena Linder Parker and here mother, 83-year-old Hazel Linder.
Now here's a police sketch of the suspect believed to have shot five people to death in just the last week. If you recognize this man, take a look at that sketch, you're asked to contact police.
President Barack Obama is on his way to Russia at this hour and he has some major problems to tackle.
Also, Sarah Palin's sudden announcement. What's next for the soon-to-be former Alaskan governor?
And has the news media been fair to the memory of Michael Jackson? One high-profile person has some critical comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I have seen other musical icons die where there were serious questions about them, and I've never seen it dominate the news before their funeral.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Strong words from the Reverend Al Sharpton. He'll join me live to explain what he's talking about this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Obama is heading to Russia as I speak. He departed just over two hours ago for Moscow for a two-day summit with President Dmitriy Medvedev and current Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. President Obama then sets his sights on Italy for the G-8 summit midweek. He'll then wrap up with a stop in western Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that there has been a time over the last several years where Russian-U.S. relations were not as strong as they should be. What I said coming in is that I wanted to press the reset button on relations between the United States and Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We're going to discuss this with the best political team on television in just a little bit.
But I want to say -- you know, Sarah Palin, Alaska's governor, well, her decision to resign at the end of the month is sparking a wide range of reactions, including some in her own party.
At a Friday news conference, Palin mentioned everything from family concerns here -- family concerns to a desire to work for political change beyond Alaska.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), ALASKA: Though it may be tempting and more comfortable to just kind of keep your head down and plod along and appease those who are demanding, hey, just sit down and shut up. But that's a worthless, easy path way out. That's a quitter's way out. And I think the problem in our country today is apathy. It would be apathetic to just kind of hunker down and go with the flow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, on the Sunday morning news shows, Republican strategist Karl Rove described her as a, quote, "risky strategy," and conservative columnist George Will even invoked the word quitter. Over in Iraq, Vice President Joe Biden, her Democratic rival in last fall's election, said he gives her the benefit of the doubt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I respect her decision. I don't know -- I don't know what prompted her decision to not only not run again and also to step down as a consequence of the decision not to run in 2010. And I take her at her word, that it had a personal ingredient in it and you have to respect that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, in a Facebook posting to supporters yesterday, Governor Palin offered a small hint about her future plans. In her words, she said, quote, "I look forward to making a difference with you."
Let's talk about Sarah Palin and the other political headlines with two of our favorites here -- CNN political editor Mark Preston, he joins me from Washington, and April Ryan is in Baltimore tonight. She is the White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks.
Thank you, thank you, both.
And it's a holiday weekend, that's why I said thank you, thank you twice.
OK. Let's talk about Sarah Palin. And, you know, I said this earlier, Mark, to Paul Steinhauser. I had no -- I listened to the entire thing. I had no idea what she was talking about.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: You know, Don -- you know, there is something to be said that we heard two very rambling speeches from two governors who were on the hot seat in the past. We saw Governor Mark Sanford give this very long speech where we really didn't know where he was going until he acknowledged he had an affair. And then of course, we have Sarah Palin, who goes on and talks and talks and talks and finally says that not only is she not going to seek a second term, but she's going to resign.
Now I will tell you, Don, we're not shocked that she was not going to seek a second term. You know, clearly, she's been under a lot of fire up there in Alaska. And if she was to seek the presidency in 2012, Don, it would make sense for her to bow out after just one term as governor. However, the fact that she's not resigning really has turned the political world on its head.
LEMON: April, can you make sense of any of this?
APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Well, the sense that I'm getting, and there's an old saying, "If you don't have anything nice, don't say it at all."
I've called some of the highest ranking Republicans I can find to the Christian right. Whenever you say Sarah Palin, no one wants to talk. And I did talk to a couple of people tonight and the general sense is that -- you know, do you support her? You know, does she have credibility? Is she someone that really is serious about this?
They said, no. And I said what could she do to gain your support? They said make sure that she doesn't have her kids in the forefront in the news. So, Sarah Palin is very controversial even within her own party. It's going to be hard for her to pull out a 2012.
LEMON: Hey, Mark, April makes a good point here because if you have Karl Rove couching his words and you have George Will bringing up the word quitter on national television programs, you would think maybe -- and both conservative, that Sarah Palin may be in a bit of trouble here...
PRESTON: Well, you know...
LEMON: ... politically, politically.
PRESTON: You know, Don, I have been talking to political consultants all weekend long. They describe this as a very odd move, as highly unusual. Why would you leave with 18 months remaining in your term when really one of the criticisms about you was the fact that you didn't have enough experience?
So, you know, the power elite in Washington, the Republican power elite, are dumbfounded by this move. But you know something? Sarah Palin is not a conventional politician.
LEMON: Right.
PRESTON: She clearly has shown that. And really, what we've seen over the last 36 hours, Don, is that she's using this social networking site, you discussed it -- that she put a posting on Facebook and she's been twittering all about her decision. She's trying to take the message back, something she had no control of in the 2008 campaign.
LEMON: And Mark, you know, unconventional candidate and that's been part of her appeal, part of why she's so popular.
Hey, April, I want to ask you about the president's trip to Russia. What can we expect to start seeing next week once the president starts speaking and we start seeing him live there?
RYAN: Well, my sources are saying this is not about arms control. This is about so much more -- trying to rebuild a relationship with the Russian government and the Russian people.
They're also saying, you know, you can hear in the conversation issues about Iran. You can also hear issues about taking the Russia relationship beyond the borders. And they said, you know, expect something on some transit agreements, but don't put so much emphasis on arms control because they do know that there's still some more work to be done, a lot more work actually.
LEMON: April Ryan, Mark Preston, that has to be the last word. Thanks to you both.
RYAN: Thank you.
PRESTON: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: More political turmoil in Iran and new trouble for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Some top clerics may be turning against him. What is next?
And check it out. Twitter is exploding right now as select fans find out that they're going to the Michael Jackson memorial service, and guess what, the tickets are already hitting eBay.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have an update on our breaking news. Jose Manuel Zelaya tried to return to Honduras today to reclaim the presidency, but this was as close as he got.
The Honduran military blocked the jet from landing at the capital city airport, and it had to divert to Nicaragua. The deposed president is expected to arrive in El Salvador this hour. He was kicked out in a coup one week ago.
For several hours the airport was the scene of tense clashes between Zelaya's supporters and the military. The Red Cross says at least one person was killed. But other sources say up to three people may have died. Opponents accuse Zelaya of trying to unlawfully extend his power and failing to implement dozen of laws passed by the Honduran congress.
Political rumblings inside Iran are growing louder tonight. Some high-ranking clerics and seminary students have now added their voices to the rising discontent over last month's presidential election. They're now calling the election skewed.
It is perhaps the most direct challenge yet to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei who declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the undisputed winner. Former President Rafsanjani who backed the main opposition candidate also has expressed doubt over the legitimacy of the vote.
Earlier tonight, I spoke about the rising dissention inside Iran with Abbas Milani. He is a director of Iranian studies at Stanford University.
Take a listen to our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The clerics and their statement, they are even coming out in some ways against this disputed election. What does that mean at this point? ABBAS MILANI, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: I think it means that there is a major risk within the Iranian political and religious elite. And it means that some of the spiritual pillars of Shiism based in the city have recognized that the status quo is untenable and that the anger that people have shown must be either responded to or it will bring more and more serious threats to their faith and to the regime in the long run.
LEMON: I was just going to ask you, doesn't this just embolden the reform and it threatens -- it does threaten Ahmadinejad, does it not?
MILANI: I think it's very much a threat to Mr. Ahmadinejad, and it is clear that Ahmadinejad feels the threat. They have canceled several of his trips, including one that was scheduled to go to Libya. Clearly, they feel under the gun. They realize that they have made a mistake that might mean the end of the regime. And the harsh rhetoric of the past few days has only strengthened the opposition and the resolve of these clergy and many other senior clergy who have come out.
LEMON: I think it's interesting that you say it might mean the end of the regime. So then, you know, I asked another guest, what happens now?
MILANI: Well, I think there are several possibilities. The regime as we knew it with Mr. Khamenei as the absolute leader, as the leader who when he spoke all discussions ended has already ended. Mr. Khamenei no longer has the authority. People defy him. People go against his word on a regular basis now.
So, what might come is either much more brutal, much more militarized regime, or a much more democratic alternative. And I think some of the Shiite clergy who are speaking out recognize this and are trying to avoid that much less likable, much less fortune alternative, because it would be an alternative that will leave this regime with absolutely no legitimacy domestically and internationally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. Let's turn our attention now into the Michael Jackson story and the news media's role in all of this.
I'm joined here in Los Angeles by the Reverend Al Sharpton.
Now before we talk, Reverend Sharpton, I want to play a comment that you made today that caught all of our attention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: I have seen other musical icons die where there were serious questions about them, and I have never seen it dominate the news before their funeral.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, Reverend, also in a sermon today you were preaching, you were actually in the pulpit today, and you spoke out about the media's coverage of Michael Jackson.
Why did you say that?
SHARPTON: I think that there is fair game to raise all issues, but to just raise this demonizing of Michael Jackson and to act as though all of the allegations, many of them found untrue. I mean, he was acquitted of charges by a conservative jury in a conservative county in California and they're talked about like they're fact and like that's the whole Jackson story. That's what I object to.
LEMON: And I do have to say for the first time, I don't think I've ever heard this on television. We had Michael Jackson's former attorney Thomas Mesereau on. And he's saying that Michael Jackson paid the first one off because he just wanted to get rid of it. He didn't want it to be an O.J. Simpson-type environment. And that's coming from his attorney. That was the first time I have ever heard anyone say that.
SHARPTON: Johnnie Cochran had told me that, who handled that before he died. But the fact is whether one wants to go through this or that, my concern is that this is the dominating story of Michael Jackson in some parts, I mean, not all, but in some parts of the media.
Should it be raised in context? Yes. But is that all we're going to talk about and all we hear about? I think that there's been too much.
LEMON: I said on the air, I said what is Reverend Sharpton talking about. And I have to tell you my producer, one who's sitting there -- they said don't be defensive, he's not talking -- it's not personal. It's not personal. I don't think.
But CNN has done great coverage of Michael Jackson. We did a one-hour documentary. We have been talking about the tribute to him. As journalists, we have to cover all aspects of his life, and some of that included some controversy.
SHARPTON: Yes, but when we do the stories of just acting like the tortured Michael Jackson. And Michael Jackson like he was some freak, and not talk about what Michael Jackson achieved and the social force he was. How he brought people together and united people.
One of the things that was amazing to me is in that church today, you had blacks, whites, Latinos, and when I said it, they stood up and clapped because they understood I'm not talking about -- I'm not saying give Michael a pass. But I'm saying don't give a pass to his achievements. And I must say you shouldn't be defensive because I think the program you did "MAN IN THE MIRROR" did do, talk about his achievements, talked about how he broke records, and you covered the controversy.
I'm seeing too many stories that acted like the only reason Michael Jackson was a celebrity is because of the controversies, and that's not true.
LEMON: Do you see a difference in this with Princess Diana, that was very highly covered, Elvis Presley, who was very highly covered, John Lennon -- any other celebrity deaths?
SHARPTON: Well, first of all, I think that we saw controversies around Presley, even Sinatra, Lennon, but that was not the dominating story and certainly not leading into their funerals. There was respect. They said there were allegations against Sinatra that were unfounded. You would think that Michael Jackson was convicted. You would think that he was just some weirdo and that he became famous being weird. You would not think this man changed pop culture, that this man holds the record on record sales, that this man became a social force, that this man stood by Nelson Mandela, that he did "We Are the World" before we ever heard of Live Aid. And in addition to that, there were some controversies.
All we hear is controversy, controversy. And all I'm saying is let's be fair. That's all. Let's play the game by one set of rules.
LEMON: OK. You know I've got to ask you.
SHARPTON: Sure.
LEMON: I'm a journalist, all right? So, Tuesday, we're hearing the public and private memorial. Do we know about the private memorial? Is there anything you can tell us?
SHARPTON: I can only tell you that all of that is being worked out as we speak. I think that people must understand the mammoth outpouring from all over the world. People are flying in from everywhere. And the family is literally trying to meticulously do this as I speak. It's not that no one is going to not tell you, Don, it's that no one really knows. It's not confirmed yet.
LEMON: Thank you. The Reverend Al Sharpton.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. We appreciate it.
And you heard the reverend mentioned the "MAN IN THE MIRROR." You can catch it tonight, 11:00 p.m. Eastern, right after this broadcast only here on CNN.
And then on Tuesday, of course, make sure you join us for around-the- clock coverage of the memorial celebrating the life of this worldwide pop icon, as family, friends, fans, all say goodbye to Michael Jackson, the memorial. CNN all day Tuesday, starting on "AMERICAN MORNING" 6:00 a.m. Eastern.
My thanks again to Reverend Sharpton.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Disney's monorail system is shut down today because of a deadly accident. A 21-year-old train operator was killed around 2:00 this morning after apparently crashing his train into the back of another monorail train which was stationary. He had been transporting a family of six. They were not injured. The other driver wasn't physically hurt but shaken up emotionally. A top Disney official calls it a terrible day.
Four people are now dead after a truck carrying fireworks blew up in Okracoke Island off North Carolina yesterday. Authorities say the victims were offloading the truck when it detonated. The ATF is investigating. A memorial parade was held today for those victims.
Sarah Palin shocked friends and foes alike when she announced her abrupt decision to step down as Alaska's governor. That's just one of the big stories that folks are talking about tonight.
We're now joined by our radio host Warren Ballentine and Martha Zoller.
Thank you very much.
I've spoken to you, guys, off camera about Sarah Palin, so, you know, it is -- yes, there we go. OK, so let's move on though.
Let's talk about the Michael Jackson coverage.
I'll start with you, Martha.
How are your listeners responding? Do they think it's too much? Do they want to know more? Are they even talking about it?
MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO HOST, "MARTHA ZOLLER SHOW": We're not talking about it much. But I will say regarding what Reverend Sharpton had to say, I would disagree with him.
Of course, Michael Jackson is the first guy of this level post-24 hour news. But they were talking about Elvis Presley's drug overdose, his eating habits, all that kind of stuff even before the funeral. So I think that he's just very close to this so it's hard for him to look at it objectively.
LEMON: Warren?
WARREN BALLENTINE, RADIO HOST, "WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": Well, of course, my listeners are all over this. They love Michael Jackson.
I mean, how can you describe Michael Jackson, when you look at Michael Jackson or Einstein or Beethoven, it's genius. But, Don, I got to say something here now. I agree with Reverend Sharpton. I'm going to tell you why.
Even CNN who I truly love, your "HEADLINE NEWS," Nancy Grace and Jane Velez, all they're doing is attacking Michael Jackson. They're not bringing up anything positive over there on the Michael Jackson family. And Fox News is doing the same now. I'm not old enough to remember when Elvis died.
LEMON: Right.
BALLENTINE: But I can tell you this, we need to respect the dead. At least let him be buried before all of this is put out there.
I think "MAN IN THE MIRROR," though, was perfect. I really do.
LEMON: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I can't believe you weren't old enough.
I remember when Elvis died, and I remember where I was. I was at home in front of the TV eating. We had just gotten cable. And I have to tell you, it's "HLN" now. I'm not going to criticize my colleagues, but it's "HLN," not "HEADLINE NEWS."
ZOLLER: Well, you have to look at the balance of the coverage, too. I mean, you got to look at the balance of the coverage. I think you can look at not only news channels, but there are a ton of other channels that are running specials, biographies. I think all in all the coverage has been positive.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Martha, real quickly, we don't have a lot of time, guys, I'm sorry. Let's talk about tea parties. You have some news on tea parties.
Martha, tell us about it.
ZOLLER: Well, I think that what -- you know, the tea parties of course on the Fourth were not as big as people expected. You can expect that to happen. But the big day is going to be September 12th. There's going to be a big tea party that's going to be planned on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.
LEMON: Martha Zoller, Warren Ballentine.
Warren, sorry not to let you get your point in...
BALLENTINE: That's all right, Don.
LEMON: ... but we're up against the clock here.
Thank you, guys.
ZOLLER: Thanks, guys.
BALLENTINE: Thank you.
LEMON: And I hope you have a great Fourth. Thanks very much.
A crowning moment on America's birthday weekend. For first time since 9/11, the Statue of Liberty's crown is open to the public again. And check it out, Twitter all abuzz because of those tickets. A select few have found out that they will be going to the Michael Jackson memorial service, and guess what? The tickets already hitting eBay.
We're back in a moment.
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LEMON: For the first time since 9/11, tourists in New York can see the entire Statue of Liberty. The statute's crown has reopened. It was closed after the terror attacks because of security concerns. This weekend's celebration also served as a backdrop for a couple to get engaged.
Our Susan Candiotti spoke to them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON WEIFINGER, ENGAGED AT STATUE OF LIBERTY: Just being able to go into the crown is amazing. Being the first group to go into the crown made it really special, and obviously being able to propose on such a unique day.
ERICA BREDER, ENGAGED AT STATUE OF LIBERTY: Very fortunate to have this experience.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
Do you have a marriage date yet? Fourth of July?
BREDER: Possibly.
WEIFINGER: Possibly, Fourth of July.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The Statue of Liberty a gift from the people of France has stood in New York harbor since 1886.
Those 8,750 people randomly chosen to receive tickets to the Jackson memorial have been instructed to pick them up tomorrow at Dodger stadium.
Zach Moss is one of those lucky people. He joins us now from Las Vegas.
How are you doing, Zach? I would imagine it's bittersweet. You're happy to be going, but sad about the death of someone that you probably followed.
ZACH MOSS, SELECTED TO ATTEND JACKSON MEMORIAL: Yes, this is very, very true.
LEMON: Yes. Tell us about the process. You found out, what, through e-mail? MOSS: I found out through e-mail today. I was actually just sitting out at the pool, and I found out -- I was looking at my iPhone and it said -- what it say? It said, Staple Center announcement. And I was like, "All right, this is going to tell me that I didn't get a ticket." So I looked it up and it said, "huge congratulations." And I was like, "Whoa, this can't be real." So, I read it down and shows all the information. I tried to access it on my phone with Ticketmaster. I was like, "All right, I'm going to go and find a computer and do it that way." And sure enough, it was real. I mean, I thought it was bogus but crazy.
LEMON: It was real.
MOSS: Oh, yes.
LEMON: Hey, listen, it's -- I don't know if it's ironic, but it's certainly interesting that you're a disc jockey.
Do you play a lot of Michael Jackson music?
MOSS: I do.
LEMON: Do you mix it in there?
MOSS: I do. And you know what, especially after he died, I was, you know, deejaying at a couple clubs out here, and you know, the reaction from the crowd is ridiculous. It's completely different than it was, you know, a week before he died.
I can play, you know, "Billie Jean" and "PYC," and you know, whatever, and it can come -- you know, what am I even trying to say here.
LEMON: That's OK. I know it's a lot of pressure.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You're probably very excited.
MOSS: The crowd just go crazy for it. You know, usually I wouldn't play a certain artist, you know, back-to-back or even three songs in a row. I can play a 30-minute, hour set of Michael Jackson and everybody in the crowd is just as happy and they're, you know...
LEMON: Well, I got to say, you know, I have been hearing a lot of Michael Jackson music. It's just been in cars as I'm driving on the street or walking, and you hear people playing it, and every song is timeless and it all sounds amazing.
I got to ask you -- I got to ask you this one last thing. What do you think of people who are selling it for a lot of money on eBay?
MOSS: You know what, it's horrible. I was in Kinko's printing off the thing, and the guy behind me said, "Oh, you won Michael Jackson tickets." I said, "Yes." He's like, "You're selling them, right?" I said, "No." He's like, "You know, you could get $10,000 for a ticket." I wouldn't think of selling them. It's not going to happen again. You know, to profit off of someone's loss is horrible. Unfortunate.
LEMON: Yes. And you got two tickets. Are you going to take someone with you?
MOSS: I'm actually taking -- yes, I'm taking my talent agent from Copeland Entertainment.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you. I know you had to get that plug in there.
MOSS: That's what she told me to do.
LEMON: She represents you as a disc jockey. Not as someone who got Michael Jackson tickets.
MOSS: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Thank you very much.
Zach, report back to us about the memorial service. I'll be out there on Tuesday. Look for me, OK?
MOSS: I'm sure I'll see you there.
LEMON: All right. Thank you very much.
MOSS: Thank you.
LEMON: Michael Jackson broke down many barriers during his four decades in the music industry. Next, the man who helped shaped his unique image.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: "Up From a Past." Tonight, we're focusing on the legacy of Michael Jackson. He broke down many barriers in the music industry becoming a major cross over artist, shattering sales records with his album "Thriller" and paving the way for black artists to get their music played on MTV. My next guest is Norman Winter. He knows a lot about the King of Pop, having once served as his publicist.
Norman, Thank you. Welcome.
I'm sure you've been in this studio, probably. I'm not sure if you've been with Larry or what have you.
NORMAN WINTER, MICHAEL JACKSON'S FORMER PUBLICIST: Yes. Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you.
You lost a friend.
WINTER: I loved him. I thought he was a prince. I haven't been with him for years and years, but from the beginning, everybody fell in love with Michael. He was just great.
LEMON: Let's put up some of Norman's photographs. Norman has some very special moments.
You were with Michael Jackson. Really, was this the height of his career? Did you help -- I mean, this is the Jackson 5 that we're looking at now with all the gold records.
WINTER: I have to walk the wall before the "Victory" tour. (INAUDIBLE), the president of CBS said this is the man. We're going to kick ass with him. And we just started on it, and we work really well. I mean, he did it by himself. He's just -- I mean, it's amazing.
LEMON: Yes. You were with him during the time of the Pepsi commercial, is that correct?
WINTER: Yes.
LEMON: I saw you in that. I saw you in some old news coverage, news footage where you were trying to help the media. Tell us about those times.
WINTER: Well, Frank DiLeo was a good manager. And he came back. You know, the day Michael died is the when he was going to take over again, did you know that?
LEMON: No, I didn't.
WINTER: Yes. That's what I was told, because he was back in town, DiLeo after all these years.
LEMON: Yes,
WINTER: And I got to tell you something, he would do anything to help kids. When he heard about Boy George being on newsstands saying he talked to Michael all the time, Michael got very offended, and he said, look, he said he's a very talented -- but I don't want my kids, the kids that love me, to see me with -- like I talk to him.
Everybody knows what he did and stuff like that. And, you know, Michael was never gay. And so he got very pissed about it. And he decided to do a press conference. We got Frank DiLeo read it. People thought Michael was going to be doing a thing, but he came out. We had all the media. And he said, look, from now on, you have to understand, this is supposed to be Michael, but it's Frank DiLeo. "I'm not gay, and I'm going to sue people."
My attorney is John Branca, and watch out for him, because don't ever start with me. No newspapers, no TV, no radio, no kidding, he said, "I really am straight." And he said, "And someday, I want people to know that I'd like to get married and have a child," and it happened. He did.
LEMON: Yes. And you and John Branca, you now, you and John Branca are good friends, and John Branca is the executive of the world.
Have you had a chance to speak to John?
(CROSSTALK)
WINTER: We're good friends. (INAUDIBLE), I was going to bring him over here.
LEMON: Yes, we want to talk to him.
WINTER: When do you want to see him?
LEMON: I want to see him tonight.
WINTER: Well, it's a little late.
LEMON: Then we'll do it in the morning. How about that?
WINTER: I'll call him in the morning. I promise. He's great.
LEMON: Hey, we appreciate it. We know that you took him to the White House. He was there with Reagan.
WINTER: Branca is the guy that put it together. Branca got it really good. And we all -- it was amazing. The first time MTV ever was in the White House and he was just so cute. I mean, people loved him over there.
LEMON: Thank you, sir.
WINTER: Stay well.
LEMON: You are a wealth of knowledge. I could talk to you all night, but unfortunately, you know, I only have the time over here.
WINTER: I'm a legend in my own mind.
LEMON: You're a legend on your own mind.
Norman, don't go anywhere. Hang on. Hang on. We're not done yet.
Norman Winter, thank you very much.
Join us for "MICHAEL JACKSON: THE MEMORIAL." CNN all day, Tuesday, starting on AMERICAN MORNING 6:00 a.m. Eastern.
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