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Man in Custody for Multiple Killings in Alabama, Tennessee; Two Teenagers Shot Outside Chicago Church; Woman is Charged in Florida Killings; Nelson Mandela Celebrates 91st Birthday
Aired July 18, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, murder mystery: six people dead, multiple crime scenes. One man in custody -- what is he telling police?
Getting at the truth: Investigators in Florida are growing frustrated with all the rumors surrounding the double murder of a couple. Their top brass clears it up for us live.
Happy Birthday, Mr. President. Nelson Mandela celebrates his 91st with a message to the world live right here on CNN.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.
We are tracking breaking news tonight. Police are investigating a multiple murder along the Tennessee/Alabama state line and they have a suspect in custody. Police held a news conference just a short time ago. They say five bodies were found in two homes in Lincoln County, Tennessee. Some of the victims are related.
Police also found another crime scene linked to those deaths on the same street. A sixth victim was found across the state line in Huntsville, Alabama. Police identified the suspect as Jacob Lee Shafer, murder charges are pending.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, WTVF)
SHERIFF MURRAY BLACKWELDER, LINCOLN COUNTY, TENNESSEE: This is one of the worst crimes in Lincoln County has ever seen. It is a tremendous crime scene. We've never had a situation like this. But in a serious situation, once we determine exactly what it is, we back out and then start processing the scene from the outside in -- and that's what's taking place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, so far, we don't know the identities of the victims and we don't know the cause of death or a motive.
It is supposed to be a place for kids to find a safe haven, in a city grappling with a wave of violence. But last night in Chicago, a frightening reminder that no place is truly safe. Two teens shot and wounded outside a church.
Erin Mendez of WGN joins me now from Chicago with an update on that.
ERIN MENDEZ, WGN REPORTER: All right. Good evening, Don.
In fact, it was interesting because the priest of this church, Saint Sabina, Fr. Pfleger has been a longtime gun control advocate. And so, this battle really became a personal one for him last night when these two teen parishioners were shot on the front steps of Saint Sabina.
LEMON: So, you know, Father Michael Pfleger was at a press conference earlier. And I actually spoke to him on the phone. He has been extremely touched by this -- and not in a good way. It has affected him and he is coming out actually crying on camera.
Have you been able to talk to him about what his next move is? Is he challenging police or investigators to try to do more when it comes to these types of crimes?
MENDEZ: Well, Don, they filled the church all last night just to field calls and they said they received a number of tips, some they believe to be solid. He also had a message for the shooter at this prayer vigil this afternoon. He was very furious and he pointed directly at these cameras and said, "You guys came to the wrong door," and this is a personal fight for Father Pfleger because he lost his own adoptive son back in 1998 to stray gunfire. So, there's that personal thread here, too.
LEMON: Yes. Talk to us about all the other -- you know, CNN has been investigating. I would imagine there are other news organizations, Erin, in the area who are investigating all of these shootings and especially young people, teens being killed in Chicago. I know the mayor addressed it recently. So did the police commissioner, Jody Weis, the Police Chief Jody Weis.
What is going on there on the ground when it comes to investigating these shootings?
MENDEZ: Well, you know, it's a huge problem. You know, they had 36 school-age children in Chicago and this is just a total from, you know, up to June that were killed this year alone, and they just can't seem to get it under control.
And Father Pfleger has really taken this battle to the front lines. He's actually flying the American flag upside down like you do when there is a crisis outside that church to make a statement and say, "Hey, this is a major crisis in the city of Chicago. We need to draw attention to it. And it's beyond just, you know, enforcing it out on the streets. We need to get parents involve. And we need stronger gun control."
And he's really pointing a finger at Springfield and at Washington right now.
LEMON: All right. Thanks. Erin Mendez of our affiliate WGN in Chicago with an update for us on the shooting from last night -- we appreciate it, Erin.
I also want to tell you, I'm just getting word now that Father Michael Pfleger will join us in the NEWSROOM tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern -- 10:00 p.m. Eastern to talk about what happened right at his church.
Meantime, to Pensacola, Florida, now -- a small safe haven from the deadly home invasion of Byrd and Melanie Billings was recovered buried in the backyard of Pamela Long Wiggins. It's just one of the strange twists and turns in a baffling double killing. I should say a "safe" was found.
CNN's Susan Candiotti takes a closer look at the lone woman suspect in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Charged as an accessory after the fact to murder, Pamela Long Wiggins smiles as the camera catches her under police escort. She's the only woman among seven men accused in connection with the shooting deaths of Byrd and Melinda Billings. Police say cameras that captured the suspects were also rolling inside the home.
SHERIFF DAVID MORGAN, ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA: It's just an incredible odd mix of people and an incredibly interesting story that sad is also a tragic story.
CANDIOTTI: Wiggins wasn't there but police say her minivan was, used as a getaway car. Important evidence was found on her property. A safe allegedly stolen from the Billings' home containing jewelry, passports and children's medication was buried in Wiggins' back yard, a pile of bricks covering the spot.
Police say her husband was the one who tipped them off to the safe. A source involved in the investigation says Wiggins kept it to himself until police found the couple on a 47-foot boat called The Classy Lady. Police say Wiggins' husband cooperated. He is not charged. She is.
She's a woman with at least six aliases including Pamela Link and Pamela Coco -- all of them apparently from former marriages. She's a real estate agent who also owns this waterfront home currently under foreclosure and a well-known antique mall in the area.
Wiggins has ties to the suspected ringleader in the Billings case, Leonard Patrick Gonzales, Jr. Investigators say she rents a home to him. Records show he witnessed one of her marriage certificates.
How does a businesswoman wind up allegedly linked to the brutal murder of a couple that adopted and cared for more than a dozen special needs children at their spacious home? It's a crime that has Pensacola's gulf coast reeling.
MORGAN: All of us in this community are giving that second look now over the shoulder, because here's a family that opened their home to children with special needs. And because they had this casual relationship with the wrong people, sadly, they were targeted.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): Wiggins remains free after posting a $10,000 bond. She is scheduled for a court date in a few weeks -- in the thick of a still mysterious home invasion robbery investigation.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Pensacola, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. The investigation into this crime has revealed some very unsavory characters with strange connections. Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan joins us in just a few minutes with the latest on the investigation.
Also, they came out and said there are so many rumors about this that they felt they had to say something. The sheriff will clear up all those rumors. We'll get to the bottom of the truth coming up in just a little bit here on CNN.
Also, we want to let you know we're keeping an eye on San Francisco -- this is just in -- where two light railcars have collided. A police officer says there are lots of injuries, but none appears life-threatening. We'll bring you pictures as soon as we get them out of San Francisco.
An American fighter jet crashed in Afghanistan earlier this morning, killing the two men crew there. The Air Force says the F-15 Eagle was apparently not hit by enemy fire and investigators are now looking at the crash site in the Ghazni province to determine if mechanical problems doomed the flight -- if there were mechanical problems that caused this.
Fifty coalition troops have been killed in Afghanistan so far in July -- already the deadliest month of the war for NATO forces.
Government agents in Iran used tear gas to break up a demonstration allegedly beating and arresting at least 40 people. Witnesses say the demonstrators were hauled away in unmarked cars including a human rights lawyer. The crackdown came as ralliers and a powerful cleric called for the release of prisoners arrested during last month's election fallout. The protesters believe more than 2,000 people are still behind bars after the highly-contested vote that gave incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a landslide victory.
Searchers in Jakarta, Indonesia, have uncovered a ninth body while sifting through the damage at two bombed hotels. Now, here's what we know right now: surveillance video from the Marriott shows a man pulling a suitcase just before a blinding blast that you see right there. Moments later, another bomb rips through part of the Ritz- Carlton. There's no claim of responsibility but suspicions are rising that the blasts were masterminded by a militant Malaysian fugitive.
He was a consummate journalist. Veteran newsman Walter Cronkite died last night at his home in Manhattan after a long illness. He was 92 years old. And for decades, he was the face of CBS News. He wasn't just an old-school newsman, he was the school. And tonight, former colleagues are remembering him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER CRONKITE, LEGENDARY JOURNALIST: Good evening from the CBS News control center in New York, this is Walter Cronkite reporting.
SUSAN ZIRINSKY, FORMER CRONKITE PRODUCER (via telephone): In the days when we were all kids and those of us who were starting under Walter, Walter embodied kind of the best of everything and the best you would aspire to. There were three networks at that point, and Walter was the most important man. You lived and died by what he said, how he wanted pieces to be told. You were answerable to Walter. When Walter picked up the phone you were scared to death.
But, on the other hand, there was a core value in what we did, and, you know, it was a time when one voice mattered.
CRONKITE: From Dallas, Texas, the flash, apparently official. President Kennedy died at 1:00 p.m. Central Standard Time, 2:00 Eastern Standard Time, some 38 minutes ago.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): I remember that moment where he took off his glasses and he looked at the clock and he said that President Kennedy has died. And I -- you know, that was one of the, you know, earliest moments that I can remember that I really wanted to pursue a career in news.
And I watched Walter all through the days of the Apollo space program. And I remember him saying on July 20th, 1969, that man has landed on the moon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The eagle has landed.
(LAUGHTER)
CRONKITE: Oh, boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
CRONKITE: Boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be busy for a minute.
CRONKITE: Wally, say something -- I'm speechless.
ROBERTS: To think he was the most trusted man in America really was, I think, an understatement because at that time, any time anything ever of happened, any time anything bad ever happened, the world turned to Walter Cronkite not only for the news but for reassurance. And he was -- he was not just an icon but he was, you know, almost like a member of your family. And to think that he is gone now is just such a sad occasion.
DON HEWITT, CREATOR, "60 MINUTES" (via telephone): He was the consummate television newsman. He had all the credentials to be a writer, an editor, a broadcaster. There was only one Walter Cronkite, and there may never be another one. Being friends with Walter Cronkite was about as high as you could rise many our business; to be his colleague and his friend was a double blessing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: We'll have more reaction to the death of Walter Cronkite throughout the evening coming up in the next half hour. Former CBS reporter Gordon Joseloff will join us to remember the legendary anchor.
Intriguing details keep coming to life from the double murder case in Pensacola. Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan joins us live next.
And take a look at this. We're taking you live to the red carpet at the celebration of Nelson Mandela's 91st birthday. Oscar winning actor Forest Whitaker joins us, also Will.i.am. Those are live pictures there from the red carpet.
Boy, that looks great. Wyclef Jean on the red carpet. Much, much more coming up on that.
Also, tell us what you want to talk about. Tell us what you're thinking about the stories we're reporting and what's on your mind. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace -- you can always send us an iReport at iReport.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. It is a story that we're all talking about -- the horrific double killing of Byrd and Melanie Billings, a well- known couple with a large family near Pensacola, Florida.
Police made eight arrests within days. Now, they are moving slowly and deliberately to ensure they don't jeopardize the prosecution of this case.
Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan has been the most visible voice of this investigation. He joins us tonight from Pensacola, Florida.
Thank you, sir, for joining us tonight. Real quickly, I have to ask you -- you know, there are so many -- you guys came out. There were so many rumors floating around about this case. Why did you feel the need to hold a press conference to talk point rumors?
MORGAN: Well, because two-fold, number one, to explain a little bit about the procedure that we go through because we're trying to be as transparent and open as possible with the public. And to be very frank with you, we did this for you, for the media. Your assistance in this case has been pivotal. It's been invaluable.
And I -- I as a sheriff and also the state attorney was very concerned that we come with a full disclosure to the press because you folks have just been there at a moment's notice when we needed you. And so, we wanted to confirm from, again, a state authority and not a civilian or -- excuse me -- a civil lawyer that, yes, in fact, this is what we have found in the safe. These are the documents recovered and those sorts of things.
LEMON: OK. Can you -- what did you find in the safe? You said it was prescription medication for the kids...
MORGAN: For the children. We have some documents. There are some adoption papers and some passports and there was heirloom jewelry in the safe.
And as we stated at that press conference, we knew from early on, actually from the inception of this case, after getting with the family and doing our first inventory of this house, we knew the contents of the safe but that's information you withhold as you bring people in for questioning. That's some of the things that you use in leverage in the interviews to identify persons of interest versus suspects.
LEMON: OK. Real quickly, because I want to get to a lot of things -- nothing in that safe though would lead most people, you know, to think why these people would be murdered. I mean, there was nothing that valuable in that safe. There wasn't tons of cash or anything like that.
MORGAN: That is -- that is correct, sir.
LEMON: Tell us about this woman. There is a woman that has some involvement who has recently been arrested. She was one of the owners of a van and that -- was this the red van we saw first or a second van we're talking about?
MORGAN: There is a small maroon minivan that we have taken, again, as evidence. It's still currently being processed. Her van was used for the transport of the safe and we believe the weapons.
So, again, her involvement continues to come to the forefront on this and the public has sent us some e-mails and some phone calls about the concern of her involvement and the charges that she had.
I want to let everyone know that at no point in time do we stop this investigation and at no point in time will we continue to add charges to those when the evidence develops.
LEMON: Sheriff, what about this unnamed teenager?
MORGAN: No, sir, we don't -- we have not identified any ages of any individuals. I'm sorry -- do you mean one of the seven?
LEMON: Yes. Was there -- was there an unnamed -- is there an unnamed teenager in all of this and what's the role that she had?
MORGAN: One -- no, sir. There's -- I'm unaware of that.
LEMON: I'm sorry. Someone was talking to me. I could not hear you. Say again.
MORGAN: Yes, sir, I'm unaware of that. We have some persons of interest that we're still looking at, but we have not released nor identified any teenagers in that mix.
LEMON: OK.
MORGAN: Now we have a teenager in custody.
LEMON: Go ahead and tell us...
MORGAN: Just one of the original seven.
LEMON: OK. That's one of the original seven. I just want to clear that up.
MORGAN: It is, sir.
LEMON: I thought that was someone new the way that -- we've been talking about a lot of rumors here. So, I just want to get that cleared up, as well.
MORGAN: Yes, sir.
LEMON: OK. Let's talk about motive. Everyone is trying to figure out motive. You guys know the motive, I'm sure.
MORGAN: We do, sir. And, again, there is more than one motive. And, again, because we're in the game of high stakes poker at this point, the defense attorneys are coming on and interviewing their clients.
We're being very, very careful in every move that we make to coordinate this with the state attorney's office to ensure that, again, information that is releasable is released at the earliest opportunity, but again, we don't step forward and do a full disclosure which -- and understand something, this is both for protection of the family for an embarrassment factor but it also has to do with the protection of the people under arrest and their rights. There are rules to the criminal justice system that we must all follow and I'm going to ensure that folks that are currently under arrest that we don't violate their civil rights.
LEMON: All right. Hey, listen, I'm up against -- I have a time issue here. But when can we expect to hear something about motive? When might you say something?
MORGAN: Again, sir, we'll have to consult with the state attorney's office.
LEMON: OK.
MORGAN: So, I wouldn't expect anything until next week.
LEMON: All right. Escambia County Sheriff David Morgan -- David, Mr. Morgan, I've seen you around the clock so I know that you have been very busy. We appreciate you taking some time out for us right here on CNN.
MORGAN: Thank you, sir.
LEMON: Best of luck to you and your investigation.
MORGAN: Thank you, sir.
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about Nelson Mandela now. When Mandela has a birthday party, everybody that's anybody shows up. We're taking you live to the red carpet in New York where the party is about to start. Will.i.am is our very special guest coming up. You don't want to miss this one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A memorable day for a legendary leader. Nelson Mandela celebrated his 91st birthday today in South Africa. It is being called the first ever Mandela Day.
And the former president and anti-apartheid activist called on people to spend time helping others through volunteerism and gifts to charity. The plan is for Mandela Day to become an annual event designed to help the less fortunate. It's very good idea.
Nelson Mandela turns 91 years old today.
Well, his wish for everyone to do something good for someone else. Tonight, in New York at Radio City Music Hall, celebrities and admirers alike are hosting a concert in his honor.
And musician Will.i.am is there, too.
Hello, sir.
WILL.I.AM, MUSICIAN: How you guys doing?
LEMON: Hey, we're doing great. How are you doing?
WILL.I.AM: I'm all right on this wonderful day in New York.
LEMON: Mandela Day.
WILL.I.AM: Yes, this is awesome.
LEMON: Yes. Tell us take us behind the scenes there, Will, about what's going on. Who are you seeing, who's on the red carpet, and what we can expect tonight.
WILL.I.AM: Wyclef, Cyndi Lauper is on the red carpet. You got, of course, a whole bunch of paparazzi taking pictures. What you're going to see tonight is just a lot of energy and love and great musicians paying homage in honoring all the activism and inspiration that Nelson Mandela has brought to our lives and people of South Africa and how that spread around the world.
LEMON: Yes.
WILL.I.AM: And we're blessed we still have them around and inspire us to continue to do good, and support the less fortunate and the youth.
LEMON: And you met him back in 2004, right? Did you play for him in a concert? Did you meet him then?
WILL.I.AM: We met -- I met Nelson Mandela in 2005 in South Africa. We went to his home and we did a concert, 40,000 people for the people in Soweto. It was a free concert that we did there. It was beautiful -- and he is just a great inspiration.
LEMON: Yes. Tell us, did he inspire "In My Name" by you and Fergie?
WILL.I.AM: Fergie wasn't on "In My Fame," but it was me and Apl. And Nelson Mandela inspired that song and Miriam Makeba. She's a very, very big inspiration and they're both from South Africa.
And he's inspired a lot of our songs. "Union" that we did with Sting was inspired by Nelson Mandela. We filmed that video in South Africa and this new song on "The E.N.D.," a song called "One Tribe" was inspired by Nelson Mandela, as well...
LEMON: Yes. I like...
WILL.I.AM: ... and all the work that he's done.
LEMON: Yes, I like that song. What is it -- tell me about the Peapod Foundation which, again, I'm sure was inspired in part by Nelson Mandela, as well.
WILL.I.AM: The Peapod Foundation was started by us, the Black- Eyed Peas, back in 1998. One of our members, Apl, was born and raised in the Philippines, a third world country, and he was adopted and brought to America at 14. He met me and we started the Black Eyed Peas.
When we became successful, we felt the strong urge to give back to kids, orphans and foster kids and kids in inner cities and provide them tools -- the same tools that excelled our dreams. That's music, journalism, acting, dancing, editing, producing, directing and writing. So, we built our first Peapod Academy in Watts.
LEMON: Wow.
WILL.I.AM: And we equipped them with prod tools, Cybershot (ph) pro high-definition camera, green screens...
LEMON: Well, I -- I can tell you, it's exactly part of the message of what President Mandela wants people to give back, you know, at least for one day.
So, hey, listen, we don't want to hold you up any longer. So, go inside. Say hello to your buddies on the red carpet for us. And go inside and have a great time. And happy birthday, Mr. President. I'm sure you agree with that.
WILL.I.AM: Thank you so much.
LEMON: All right. Thank you. Will.i.am on the red carpet. Nelson Mandela's 91st birthday.
We're talking about one president of color. There's another president of color now. A Latino Supreme Court nominee. Things are getting better for minorities, right? "Well, not fast enough," says the president. Our panel on race in America -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: An update on our breaking story tonight. Police are investigating a multiple murder on the Tennessee/Alabama border, and they have a suspect in custody. Police say five bodies were found in two homes in Lincoln County, Tennessee. Some of the victims are related. Police say there's another crime scene on the same street linked to those five deaths.
Now, the sixth victim was found across the border in Huntsville, Alabama. Police identified the suspect as Jacob Lee Schafer and they say murder charges are pending. We don't know the victims' identities and no word on the cause of death. We're keeping a close eye on that story for you all night here on CNN.
Do you think the state of education is a problem affecting only African-Americans? President Barack Obama says think again. He spoke at the NAACP's centennial celebration in New York this week. I want you to take a good listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The state of our schools is not an African-American problem. It is an American problem. Because if black and brown children cannot compete, then America cannot compete. And let me say this. If Al Sharpton, Mike Bloomberg and Newt Gingrich had agreed that we need to solve the education problem, then that's something all of America can agree we can solve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Newt Gingrich, Al Sharpton - no, I'm kidding. That would be a great conversation but tonight my guests speak to these concerns because one of the people he mentioned there the Reverend Al Sharpton, he is in New York and Steve Perry, he is a principal and founder of the Capital Preparatory Magnet School in New York City.
And again, Reverend Al Sharpton, as the president mentioned. He joins us from New York, as well. Thank you, sir.
And we're so glad, I should say sirs, we're so glad you guys are joining us. Because we're going to kick off "Black in America" next week, and it is a perfect time, you know, the president of the NAACP to really have an open talk about race, so let's, you know, let's just do it. You heard him talking about education, Mr. Perry.
Is that the magic bullet to level the playing field as much as a playing field can be leveled?
STEVE PERRY, CAPITAL PREPARATORY MAGNET SCHOOL: It is, education is central to the improvement of anyone's life and the NAACP is in a precarious situation because it's in bed with the teachers' union who are deeply responsible for the circumstances in which our children are currently being education. The achievement gap is really an educational gap in terms of performance of our educators themselves. We need to look honestly at vouchers. We need to open up the discussion. The problem that we face is that those people are supposed to represent us in organizations such as the NAACP is on the verge of becoming a civil rights relic.
LEMON: Well, you know, I want to talk to you, you said the NAACP is in bed with the teacher's union. And you don't mean that in a good way. I'm assuming.
PERRY: Not in this say, the case. What they have produced the offspring is an achievement gap that is colossal and continues to grow, even in some of the states where education seems to be working for white children. It's not working for black children. The places where it works is where children have access to choice and in cities such as New York choice is becoming the order of the day. That needs to be the choice, the order of the day throughout the country. At some point or another the NAACP has to remember that its mission is to give voice to the voiceless, the most voiceless are the children.
LEMON: Mr. Perry, Reverend, I'm going to bring you in here. Don't worry. To respond to this next question. But first, I want to ask Mr. Perry this. What do you mean becoming a relic? Because we talked about the relevance of the NAACP and I put that question out there last weekend, I believe, and someone said how can you say the NAACP might not be relevant. And I said there is a difference between relevance and still needed. You say it's becoming a relic, why? Did you not, it's reaching the right people or what?
PERRY: Michael Jordan is relevant to the history of basketball but Lebron James is the chosen one. What we need to look at is what is relevant now? When we talk to our children, what our children, the kids in my school in Hartford, Connecticut, not in New York. In Hartford, Connecticut, talk about, they see the NAACP as the image awards.
LEMON: OK.
PERRY: They see the NAACP as the freedom fund dinners.
LEMON: OK.
PERRY: Which are corporate sponsored.
LEMON: All right. So it's just sort of the headline or a marquee and there's nothing behind it. Empty.
PERRY: From the Niagara movement to Hollywood. That's not what it is supposed to be about.
LEMON: Reverend Sharpton, go for it.
REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: Well, I think that, first of all, I would agree that the civil rights issue of today is education. If you don't have equal access to the same education, you cannot produce the equality that is the goal in society and I think the president is right in identifying that and that's why some across party lines and racial lines as he has said in that speech have come together.
I think though that the NAACP and other civil rights groups cannot be aligned with those that would make them not address that. But at the same time there are social issues that have to be addressed around the educational experience. Those same young people still have the right to employment in a fair way. They have the right not to be harassed by police and I think groups like the NAACP and others still have to fight those fights.
LEMON: But do you think the NAACP is still relevant. I got to ask you.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
LEMON: OK.
SHARPTON: I think they're relevant and I think the fact is that we can hold organizations accountable without saying that they're irrelevant. Because if you think of the issues that has occurred in the last decade if it has been police brutality, if it has been -
LEMON: Reverend -
SHARPTON: Katrina, Jena, the NAACP was there with us in mass action.
LEMON: Hold that thought when you're talking about police brutality and all those other things. I want to play what the president said about the criminal justice system, Reverend, and get your response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES: We know that even as we imprison more people of all races than any nation in the world an African-American child is roughly five times as likely as a white child to see the inside of a prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Reverend, how do we address that?
SHARPTON: We must address that by dealing with the inequality in the criminal justice system. How are judges that look at the same people accused of a crime, same criminal background but they are apt according to data, that's what the president was addressing, to send blacks to jail five times more likely to do than a white charged with the same crime for the same criminal background, no matter what their education.
So where I'm the first to say that I agree with Steve and the work that he's doing around education. I say even educated blacks still face a different level in the criminal justice system, in the economic system, blacks on Wall Street that can't get jobs. Their problems is not the education. Their problem is an institutional inequality in the finance industry and the criminal justice industry. So we must use education as a way to go in but we can't act like it just ends there.
LEMON: Hey, you know, I want to talk to my producers real quick. Because I really want you guys to weigh in on this. Can we stretch this a little bit, guys? Is that OK? We can. I wanted you guys to weigh in. Because we had Walter Cronkite talking about Martin Luther King Jr., which I thought was very appropriate and I wanted to - OK. Let's play it. We'll make room for it. Go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER CRONKITE: He spoke so well, so beautifully, so almost poetry came from him making clear the fact that the blacks were not getting their freedoms in what should be a free nation and with his magnificent speeches almost prayers, he awakened so many of the whites as well as the blacks always who already understood the fact that they were not being treated fairly. And with his leadership in that regard he brought us all to the understanding that we needed a change in this nation to assure freedom for all of our citizens, black and white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: One legend talking about another there, talking about Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.. Mr. Perry, still a long way to go. Obviously progress but still a long way to go.
PERRY: Well, there is.
LEMON: I don't want to put words in your mouth. Maybe you don't feel that way.
PERRY: Well, I know there is a tremendous amount of progress. Let's be honest. If white folks didn't want a black president there wouldn't be a black president. It was the butt of every joke up to now and we have to understand and give credit where credit is due. There is still racism and the biggest racism the black community is challenged with is the internal racism that we have towards one another.
LEMON: Yes.
PERRY: The circumstances that exist in our communities where in many cases where there are quite a number of black people, where the majority of the community is black, we run those communities.
LEMON: OK. PERRY: We are the borough principals. We are the principals and preachers and teachers.
LEMON: Steve, I really have to go for time purposes here. But I wrote about that last time, "Black in America" on "AC 360" blog about racism in our own community. Reverend, just five seconds. I'll give you the last word here.
SHARPTON: I mean all of us know Dr. King helped to change the country. But the question is now we have to continue that change and if what King did is to be validated in our time, we have to close the achievement gap in education and in the criminal justice system. We can't just end with King. We must continue with what King fought for.
LEMON: Steve Perry and Reverend Al Sharpton. Hey, thank you.
PERRY: Thank you, Reverend Al.
LEMON: Really appreciate it. It's good to see you reverend. You look much more rested than when I saw you last week.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
LEMON: Congratulations. And I'm glad you got some sleep finally.
CNN Wednesday night, 7:00 Eastern, the moment of truth with Steve Harvey and Tom Joiner live from Times Square. Then at 8:00 p.m., the premiere of "Black in America," part two. "Black in America 2," part 1, I should say. Part one, that's followed by President Obama's news conference at 9:00. And then at 10:00 "Black in America 2" continues. Wednesday night, right here on CNN.
And tonight a look at the first African-American president's visit to Africa. Anderson Cooper takes the historic journey with President Obama at "AC 360" special, tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.
Live from the red carpet. Radio City Music Hall at a star- studded event for Nelson Mandela, his 91st birthday. Oscar-winning actor Forest Whitaker will join us.
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LEMON: Unemployment is high and the money tight as the recession drags on. But many financial experts say it is a great time to start a small business. And tonight's "Money & Main Street," we meet an out of work veteran who is getting a clean start by becoming her own boss. CNN's Susan Candiotti our national correspondent has her story.
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SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the eight years since she retired from the air force, Lori Lawrence has had three different jobs. She quit one and was laid off twice. After the last layoff in February, she started rethinking her options. LORI LAWRENCE, MY PAMPERED POOCH: I started thinking, I'm tired of this. What would I really enjoy?
CANDIOTTI: Over aging husky Cody who is too old to need much grooming any more. Cody inspired her to set her sights on opening a dog grooming business in the upscale Atlanta suburb of Peachtree City. But money was tight, so she swallowed her pride and opened a fruit stand.
LAWRENCE: It is not doing anything like what I had hoped that it would do, but it's more money than I had last week.
CANDIOTTI: Fruit is only bringing in a few hundred dollars a week. Compared to that, dog grooming looks like a gold mine.
LAWRENCE: People spent $42 billion last year on their pets alone. You know, it's there. How do I get in? I want in, you know.
CANDIOTTI: Lori attended a number of SPA seminars and Googled business plans of other start ups, then drafted her own.
Small business experts Danny Babb and John Rutledge offered to take a look.
DANI BABB, THE BABB GROUP: She has a specific idea in her head and about what this is going to look like and what the consumer is going to walk away with.
CANDIOTTI: John and Dani helped Lori reduce her start-up costs from $147,000 to just 35,000. They showed her how to save money on labor and equipment. They suggested she look for free advice online instead of hiring an attorney and CPA and they're helping her negotiate a better lease in that down and out commercial real estate market.
JOHN RUTHLEDGE, RUTLEDGE CAPITAL (via telephone): In your plan, you also have things like pet sitting, dog taxi, retail, a bakery, all those things, ways of adding more revenues on top of just the basic, wash your dog.
CANDIOTTI: For the time being, dog washing is all Lori offers, but she hopes to be providing the pampered pooches in her area a full range of services by the end of next month.
Susan Candiotti, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Oh, they are very cute. All right. From there to the red carpet. Radio City Music Hall, a star-studded tribute to Nelson Mandela, his 91st birthday. We're going to talk to Oscar-winning actor Forest Whitaker.
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LEMON: OK. You know what, we're trying to - I'm looking at the camera live at the red carpet there at Nelson Mandela's 91st birthday. This is what happens in news. Some of the producers are trying to get Forest Whitaker and some of the other stars to come over. It's his 91st birthday. And there is a star-studded celebration, a concert tonight at Radio City Music Hall in New York City. The former South African president, he won't be there but you know, he had a party earlier today that he celebrated inspiring others.
And so as I said we're trying to get Forest Whitaker to come up and speak. You're looking at the feet. So, in the meantime, why don't we talk, why don't we go to Robin Kerr now, a report that he did on the celebration that took place in South Africa today. How he's inspiring others on his birthday. OK. We have him. OK. Let's not do that. Let's go to Forest Whitaker, live on the red carpet. Hello, Mr. Whitaker. How are you?
FOREST WHITAKER, OSCAR WINNING ACTOR: Yes, I can hear you.
LEMON: You can hear me? How are you doing, sir? You're live on CNN right now.
WHITAKER: Great. This is a great night.
LEMON: You're there with your wife and your daughters, right? They're all there and you had the opportunity to meet Mr. Mandela when? Back in 2007?
WHITAKER: Yes, we did. In South Africa, we got the opportunity to sit down and spend some beautiful time, which is amazing video man who's spread so much light to the world. So it was a beautiful time for them. I think my little one was shaking, she could barely speak. She was so impressed with the exchange.
LEMON: Yes, I would have imagined, you it too, to meet Nelson Mandela. I would probably feel the same way. I get to meet a lot of dignitaries and a lot of very important people, but man, that is certainly an honor. And what did you take away, anything personally from Mandela's life or from meeting him?
WHITAKER: Oh, the meeting was - I think what's most important that I really learned in a deep way was about reconciliation, about people being able to come together. No matter what the circumstances were before that, if we go with a common goal and the common goal is good and for us to all be together and exist together in a great way, that it can happen, and that an individual can like - can imprint the world, touch the world in such a powerful, powerful way. And each one of us, if we try, can add our little bit to that. And he's someone that I've admired for so long. To sit in his presence is almost like sitting in the presence of a saint in some ways because what he did was so monumental, so powerful an example for us as human beings on the planet.
LEMON: Can you imagine? I just can't imagine, you know, being in prison all that time and not being bitter about it. It's just amazing to me.
WHITAKER: Yes, I visited Rob Katswata(ph) who has been in prison with Mr. Mandela, was talking to me about it. And when you meet him, there's such a generosity of spirit, such a happiness, such a joy, that it's hard to imagine he had to spend so many years in such a small cell, you know, for this cause. Then you realize how powerful, how giving a thing occurred during that period in time.
You know, (INAUDIBLE) was explaining to me one of the things they always looked forward to and Nelson Mandela expressed it to me when he was with my daughters was the ability to hear the laughter of children. That was the one thing that they could see. They would step on this stoop and look out when the guards were playing with their children. That was the one thing that they missed the most. And that was about the hope I think, the hope of tomorrow.
LEMON: Forest Whitaker, go inside and enjoy yourself. And happy birthday, Mr. President. Thank you, sir. Have a great time.
WHITAKER: Bye.
LEMON: You know what? We're talking about another icon here, Walter Cronkite, sadly passed away yesterday. 92 years old. One of a former CBS news correspondent who worked with him, Gordon Joseloff. He's going to join us with some inside stories in just a moment.
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LEMON: Yes, I want to keep some tabs on a developing story for you. This one is out of San Francisco. We're getting our first pictures of the aftermath of a rail crash in which two light rail cars collided. Multiple injuries are reported. None appears to be life- threatening. Initial reports say one car hit another at low speed. The car had been stopped on the tracks. The crash is under investigation, but a police source tells CNN it appears one of the conductors mishandled a turn.
Walter Cronkite will be buried next to his late wife in his home state of Missouri. Gordon Joseloff was a CBS news correspondent. He joins us from Westport, Connecticut. Thank you.
As a correspondent, what was it like working with Mr. Cronkite? Because for me, I'd be nervous doing a live shot out in the field and Walter Cronkite tosses to you. My heart would beat out of my chest.
GORDON JOSELOFF, FORMER CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well I think you quickly got over your nervousness and the fact that it could be Walter Cronkite, it could be Dan Rather, it was CBS News. And if you made the jump to CBS news, hopefully you got over your nervousness and really were concerned about what you had to say.
LEMON: Yes. I never worked for CBS News or for NBC News. But same thing -
JOSELOFF: Same thing absolutely.
LEMON: When Tom Brokaw threw it to me for the first time, I wasn't sure I was going to be able to talk or Katie Couric or any of those guys. But you know, he made a mark on - you see now on television, not that he wasn't a dashingly handsome man but you see journalists, you know, everyone who is cute and pretty and you have to look a certain way, Walter Cronkite did not believe in that type of journalism, did he?
JOSELOFF: He certainly did not. And one of the reasons that I was concerned when they asked me to go to Moscow as an on-air correspondent is I didn't look pretty and I wasn't an on-air personality. I had not been trained in television. And at that time, he said, you know, we'll train you. That doesn't matter. What we're concerned about are your journalistic skills. And as you know, the industry has changed in that regard. Have you more people now hired for their looks than their brains.
LEMON: Yes, that would be - it's really interesting that he felt that way. He didn't feel that he made a mark? Explain that.
JOSELOFF: Actually, he wrote a biography in 1996, a bestseller. I was just skimming it today and came across a chapter which I had forgotten. He said "a career can be called a success if one can look back and say I made a difference. I don't feel I can do that," said Walter Cronkite. Then he goes on to explain that all the early days of television and the fundamentals of journalism that he established and worked so hard to maintain he felt were in effect going out the window as he saw it in the early 1980s. And so he at that time or 1996, years later, amazingly said he did not think that he made a difference.
LEMON: Yes.
JOSELOFF: And that's certainly not the impression the American people have.
LEMON: Yes, for the reasons that we talked about, he liked good old-fashioned shoe leather reporting and getting out there and doing a story. It doesn't matter what you looked like.
JOSELOFF: Celebrity journalism, personality journalism was not his thing. And he used to say, people criticized him that he did not come out except for the famous Vietnam time when he did take a stand and he didn't take a stand. In fact, he did on radio and I wrote some commentaries for him. And in later years as a newspaper columnist that he liked to say that his kind of news was on the front page and what Eric Sevareid did and what Murrow did belonged on the editorial page. He did not want to sacrifice his independence by becoming a pundit.
LEMON: Gordon Joseloff who worked with Mr. Cronkite for many years. We appreciate you sharing those behind the scenes stories.
JOSELOFF: Thanks very much.
LEMON: I'm Don Lemon at the CNN Center in Atlanta. I'll see you right back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
"AC 360" special, President Obama's first African journey starts right now. And that's the way it is.
