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President Obama's Prime-Time News Conference on Health Care Reform; What is a Blue Dog Democrat?; Interview With White House Communications Director Anita Dunn; Battle Over Health Care Reform; Paying for Health Care; Investigators Raid Office of Jackson's Doctor
Aired July 22, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A prime-time push for health care reform. President Obama tries to regain momentum for his health care overhaul during a news conference tonight.
Boy, a look at some new poll numbers out this hour shows the president's approval rating on health care reform has dropped below 50 percent. And in the CNN Poll of Polls, his overall approval rating is down five percentage points since late June.
Brother.
The president has made health care reform a top priority, but he is facing a lot of pushback from Republicans and some Democrats.
Details from White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Barack Obama is raising the stakes, using a prime-time news conference to throw all his weight behind health care reform.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But make no mistake, we are closer than ever before to the reform that the American people need and we're going to get the job done.
MALVEAUX: Facing skeptical lawmakers, including members of his own party, the president's strategy consists of private arm-twisting and public scolding.
OBAMA: Time and again we've heard excuses to delay and defeat reform.
MALVEAUX: Using his popularity and political capital early in the game.
OBAMA: I don't want you to feel all like you might be alone on this.
MALVEAUX: With town halls, TV interviews and primetime aimed at building momentum and creating a sense of urgency to get health care legislation on his desk by mid-August.
OBAMA: We have traveled long and hard to reach this point. I know that we have further to go.
MALVEAUX: Some say a risky strategy.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think from his point of view, there are many in the public who would like to hear from him but they'd also like to see him just sitting down negotiating out the plan.
You know what they look for is a leadership that says, here's where we're going to go, not a leadership that says, I'm encouraging Congress to make more progress.
MALVEAUX: The effort comes amid recent polls showing approval for Mr. Obama's health care plan dropping below 50 percent and Americans now split over his handling of the economy. Republicans are seizing the moment.
MICHAEL STEELE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: We want to fundamentally reorient one-sixth of our economy in two weeks. And that makes no logical sense to me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: OK. Suzanne Malveaux live from the White House.
Suzanne, why today? Why is the president holding this newser later this evening?
MALVEAUX: Well, you know, Tony, initially, the hope was is that he'd have some sort of good-news announcement to make in his opening statement. And there's a lot of work. There's a lot of hard negotiating that is still taking place.
I spoke with a number of senior administration officials this morning who said he is not going to be meeting with lawmakers today regarding health care reform, that they are temporarily going to shift their focus, at least today, with his meeting with Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki. But he is meeting with his staff and advisers to get any kind of updates that happen from the Hill.
His speech is going to be about seven minutes in length. It's going to cover health care, but also be kind of a report card, what has taken place in the last six months. And we were told, Tony, that, don't expect to have any holes in this speech per se, waiting for some sort of anticipated breakthrough, legislative breakthrough.
There's a lot of work ahead here, and senior administration officials say this president is going to be more involved, directly involved, with members of Congress. We saw it yesterday when he privately met with a group of Democrats, all who had a list, Tony, a list of concerns, about 10 or so, to the president about the current health care plan, the reform plan.
He met with them for an hour. He listened to them. White House aides say that he agreed that they need to lower the costs in some way. They still have a ways to go -- Tony. HARRIS: Wow.
Our White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux for us.
But, you know, they continue to work.
Suzanne, appreciate it. Thank you.
We may hear this hour from senators working on a bipartisan health care plan. We are keeping an eye out for that.
Just moments ago, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi held a news conference focusing on the high cost of health care. She says reform will lead to improvements.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: Consumers will have more choices so they can find plans without waiting periods and high deductibles. There will be an annual limit on out-of-pocket expenses and no lifetime limits on care. There will be no more co-pays or deductibles for preventive care that can catch devastating illnesses in time. And if you change your job or lose your job, or have a preexisting medical condition, you cannot be denied coverage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. The mad rush for health care reform is running into speed bumps. And the noise on Capitol Hill is deafening. As you might expect, there is no shortage of blame for not getting the job done.
Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, cuts -- hang on just a second.
Senator Kent Conrad is talking about health care reform. Let's listen to him right now. We'll get back to Candy in a moment.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SEN. KENT CONRAD (D), NORTH DAKOTA: Well, it's certainly important for us to listen to the president. He is eager to move a package along. And good for him.
You know, I think it's important that there be pressure, otherwise sometimes things tend to drift. On the other hand, we're working diligently.
I think you can see, we're spending many hours a day. Got the best experts in the country that we're consulting. And we're making very good progress.
But this is hard. There's just no way around it.
QUESTION: Senator, yesterday a few of us asked you about the (INAUDIBLE) administration as to how that does not need to be included in the overall bill. And you had a strange -- well, you know, us, who watch you every day, you had a strange reaction. You just kind of walked away.
Can you explain what bothered you about what Peter Orszag said about (INAUDIBLE) and how you would account for it?
CONRAD: No.
Any other questions?
QUESTION: Do you anticipate getting any further than a deal here before the August recess? Were you envisioning a markup, a completion of a markup?
CONRAD: You know, that's really above my pay grade. The timing of when a mark is laid down is in the chairman's hands.
QUESTION: Senator Conrad, can you give us a sense of how much outstanding work still has to be done with CBO? Do you feel like you have the numbers you need for everything, or are you still sending stuff out?
CONRAD: No.
QUESTION: And what's the turnaround time on those?
CONRAD: Well, it's very hard to answer that question, because it varies so much what the questions are, what the specs are we send to them. But we continue to send options to them.
In fact, we've given them -- we've given the staff this morning a charge to go back and really scrub the Medicaid part of this for additional savings, and have come up with a number of concepts for doing that, have had very intensive discussions this morning about how that would work, what the effects would be. So -- but, again, that's why, you know, to get this right takes time.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) Medicaid over the weekend have any effect?
CONRAD: Absolutely. Absolutely.
We talked about that at length this morning, the governors' reactions, absolutely. We're very sensitive to the governors' concerns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, when you say "scrub" in the sense of Medicaid, are you going back and looking at the different thresholds or the different percentages that would expand Medicaid?
CONRAD: You know, I don't think it's probably wise for me to get into the details at all. Just to say, as I have, looking -- we've spent most of this morning talking about Medicaid, the costs, various options for saving money. And it was a very, very detailed review.
QUESTION: Did you get a...
QUESTION: How much is the cost?
HARRIS: All right. Democratic Senator Kent Conrad talking about where we are.
He is a part of this bipartisan group that is working with Max Baucus, who is the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, trying to come up with a compromise, trying to get something done here.
We will continue to follow this debate and the work of that committee, and the work of that bipartisan panel of that committee throughout the day here with our Dana Bash and with others.
You know, among the Democrats dissatisfied with the health care reform plans, the so-called Blue Dog Democrats. They're concerned about the costs of the health care overhaul.
Congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar live from Capitol Hill with that part of the story.
We were going to roll in a piece here, a terrific piece from Candy Crowley about the Blue Dogs, but we've got you. We've got you live, and we've got you from where all the action is taking place.
Brianna, if you would, what is a blue dog, and why are they called blue dogs?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we should explain what they are since we talk so much about them, Tony.
They are a group of Democrats in the House of Representatives, and in the '90s, when Democrats lost the majority in the House, there was a group of yellow dog Democrats, basically southern Democrats who said they felt choked blue by the far left and the far right. And so this is a story they'll tell you. They now call themselves blue dogs, and they're typically fiscally conservative Democrats from typically conservative districts.
HARRIS: I see.
KEILAR: So, as you can imagine, Tony, in the last couple of elections, when a lot of Democrats have been elected taking over spots in typically Republican districts, there have become a bigger group of Blue Dog Democrats. There's actually 52 of them now.
HARRIS: Wow. OK.
And why are they so powerful when it comes to health care?
KEILAR: Well, it really comes down to their numbers. Fifty-two is a big number...
HARRIS: Yes, it is.
KEILAR: ... in the scheme of things, and they have a couple of demands when it comes to health care.
They want cost savings and they want to revamp incentives. Cost savings, what that means is they want to squeeze as much savings out of the health care system as possible before talking about taxing Americans. And then when it comes to revamping incentives, they want to make sure that doctors and health care systems are incentivized to basically perform better care. And not just more care, not just performing as many procedures as possible.
In particular, where we get to see how much power they have, Tony, there are seven of these Blue Dog Democrats who have stood up basically against House Democratic leadership and said your plan is not meeting our demands, and we are basically going to stop this health care proposal from moving forward, from going through a key committee, on to the full House floor for a vote unless you start incorporating our demands.
So, a few of these seven Blue Dog members -- in particular, Mike Ross from Arkansas, Baron Hill from Indiana, Charlie Melancon from Louisiana -- you can see these are from somewhat rural areas and from southern areas. And that's why these folks are getting so much attention, Tony. It's why we saw them meeting with President Obama at the White House yesterday. And we see a lot of Democrats listening to what their demands are.
HARRIS: Hey, and thanks for the names and faces on this group as well.
All right. Our congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar, for us.
Brianna, appreciate it. Thank you.
We want to hear from you. We want you to weigh in on this health care discussion, because obviously reform will require changes, look, from all of us.
So, do this for us, if you wouldn't mind. Just go to our blog page at CNN.com/Tony and tell us what you think. What are you willing to give up to help?
Be sure to include your name and the city where you live. We want to start to track responses by regions here, just to see what we find out. And we'll read some of your comments on the program a little later this hour.
CNN, of course, will bring you live coverage of President Obama's news conference. That's tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. That's 5:00 Pacific.
What is the message President Obama wants you to take away from tonight's news conference? I am going to ask a member of the president's communications team that very question.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Boy, we knew this would be a crackerjack show today. And you're looking at Max Baucus. He is the chair of the Senate Finance Committee talking about health care reform.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D-MT), CHAIRMAN, FINANCE COMMITTEE: ... very significant. It's kind of exciting, actually. And we'll come back at 3:00 today and keep going.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Senator, the president has a press conference tonight. A big part of it is (OFF-MIKE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He'll be back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'll be back.
QUESTION: A big part of it, sir, is to pressure you, to pressure Democrats.
BAUCUS: Oh, no, no, no. He is rebutting a lot of the negative comments that some in the Republican Party are saying against health care reform. That's the major portion of his statement. That's what he wants to do.
In the meantime, you've got the Blue Dogs, because Blue Dogs have concerns. And we had a talk yesterday about an offset he thinks might make some sense, too. So this is just an interim process where we're just exchanging ideas.
QUESTION: You're not feeling pressure from the White House?
BAUCUS: No. No, I'm not.
HARRIS: All right. There you go.
Max Baucus, he is the head of the all-important Senate Finance Committee. Everything that's being worked on right now -- and Elizabeth, second this with me. Everything that is being worked on has to be paid for. And this is a man in his committee that is really charged with getting it done.
So, you know, while we're still trying to get all of the details of what's in these various pieces of legislation, in the final analysis, it has to be paid for. And Senator Baucus and his Finance Committee, I mean, they're charged with doing that.
Is that fair?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Sure.
It's easy to say 46 million Americans, we want to insure them. That costs money. How are you going to pay for that? And that's what they're trying to figure out.
HARRIS: OK.
Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is with us right now.
And Elizabeth, look, we've been getting comments from the blogs. Folks want us to, look, stay away from the noise, all the noise that's out there on health care reform, and get to the facts.
We're still trying to get details of what's in these various plans. But, you know, there is a little bit of fact-checking that we can do on what's being said, what's true, what's maybe not so true. And you can help us do that.
COHEN: That's right. And, you know, the noise is getting louder and louder.
HARRIS: It is. It really is.
COHEN: And I think it's even going to get worse, because as things get more contentious, people, policymakers, turn more towards rhetoric. And so they start saying things that maybe aren't 100 percent true.
So, being nonpartisan, of course, we chose two statements from Republicans and two statements from Democrats to see if they are actually true or not. So let's take the first one here.
This is from Michael Steele, who was on our air yesterday.
HARRIS: And he's the chairman of the Republican National Committee.
COHEN: He certainly is.
HARRIS: OK.
COHEN: So, let's hear what he had to say about old ladies and bad hips.
HARRIS: Oh, my.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEELE: Well, if my 85-year-old grandmother wants a hip replacement, why should we replace her hip? Well, who wants to have that conversation with their 85-year-old grandmother?
Do you? Do you want to be the one to tell her you can't because you're too old? Do you want me to tell her that? Do you want the federal government to tell her that?
That's a personal decision, and the government should not put itself in the position of dictating to anyone what their health care outcomes are. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: All right. So, Mr. Steele is saying that he fears that the government will be putting itself in a position of telling his grandmother that she can't have a hip replacement.
And I ran this actually by a fellow Republican, and I'll be honest, he laughed when he heard this, because he said there is nothing in either of these bills that says that the government is going to tell your grandmother whether or not she can have a hip replacement.
HARRIS: Yes.
COHEN: Medicare doesn't do that right now. I mean, Medicare is a government-run program, and it's not telling 85-year-olds they can't have a hip replacement. There are some theories that if this is enacted, if health care reform happens down the road, it could lead to that, but that's all sort of supposition.
HARRIS: OK. All right.
Now, we want to do a little more here. Who do we want to tee up next here, Elizabeth?
COHEN: All right. Let's tee up a Democrat now since we just talked about a Republican.
Linda Douglass, who is the communications director for the White House...
HARRIS: OK. Was on our program.
COHEN: ... who was on our program.
HARRIS: And we talked to her together.
COHEN: And we did. And this is what she said on July 8th, when you and I chatted with her. "And for people who already have health insurance, they will see, they'll be able to spend more time with their doctor when there is health care reform."
And I asked her, well, golly, how is that going to happen? How is it going to happen that, with health care reform, you're going to get to spend more time with your doctor? And she said, well, some of the changes that it's going to make and the cost savings, your doctor will end up having more time and will spend less time with insurance companies.
I ran this by someone who is sort of left-leaning, and I said, "Is that really true?" And he said, "We hope that's true. We hope health care reform does that." But he said there's nothing intrinsic about health care reform that means that instead of spending 10 minutes with your doctor, you're going to get 20.
He said that's a little iffy. Quite iffy. HARRIS: All right. And we've got some sound we want to play for you from the president. And this is on this question of whether or not you can keep your current doc and insurance, correct?
COHEN: This is the mother of all fact-checking, let me tell you, because this is the question on everyone's mind.
So, let's listen to what President Obama has to say about keeping your own insurance if you like it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: No matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: If you like your health care...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: All right. What do you think, Elizabeth?
COHEN: Well, I'm going to read the second sentence that he said. "If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period."
So, he is definitive. President Obama is saying, with health care reform, if you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep it.
Again, people we talked to, even people who agree with him passionately, say not 100 percent true. There may be some people who end up having to go to a public government option because their employer chooses it because it's cheaper.
HARRIS: We're going to get some immediate feedback right here.
COHEN: I'm sure we will.
HARRIS: All right. Elizabeth, if you would, stay with us as we continue to focus here.
We're going to shift the focus just a bit to the president's news conference tonight and his push for health care reform.
Joining us to talk about that is White House Communications Director Anita Dunn.
Anita, good to see you. Thanks for your time. Thanks for being patient.
We've got a lot to work through here.
ANITA DUNN, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes, we do. HARRIS: And so much of it, as you know, is focused on health care reform.
Look, is the president going to come out tonight and, look -- and do the latest version of the remarks we've heard over the last two days? Tee this up for us, if you would.
DUNN: Well, Tony, Elizabeth, first, let me say that sitting here listening to your conversation, it's about the most informative discussion of health care reform that I think anybody will have heard for a couple of weeks. And I was interested in watching some of the comments from your viewers this morning about what they'd be willing to give up, because it's clear people in this country want health reform.
I think what you can expect the president to do tonight is to, you know, address some of the questions people have as health insurance reform works its way through the process. I mean, as you've pointed out, there are different bills out there right now.
The House has a version. The Senate has a version. They've passed one. The Senate Finance Committee is working on another one.
You know, there are a lot of questions and a lot of different proposals out there. This is a long process. It doesn't end August 1st. It doesn't end September 1st.
The reality is that people have a lot of questions out there. People are confused. They're hearing a lot of different stories...
HARRIS: Yes.
DUNN: ... a lot of different stuff.
What he'll do tonight is he will address very directly those questions that people have coming through the press. And hopefully the questions the press asks will reflect what people really want to hear about.
HARRIS: You know, people are concerned about the public option.
DUNN: Yes, they are.
HARRIS: And we get all kinds of blog responses and e-mails about them. And they're nervous about it.
And one of the reasons they're nervous is, I mean, look, you know, we're not sure what we feel about the way Medicaid takes care of the poor, or Medicare takes care of the elderly and those folks who are dual eligible. I mean, we've got real concerns.
How in the world are we going to expand this and provide an option? We don't trust the government to do health care reform.
Is the president going to speak to that concern directly? DUNN: Well, you know, the reality is that people keep saying they don't trust the government to run a health care plan. But the reality is...
HARRIS: Well, you heard it as well, correct?
DUNN: Well, but listen, 60 percent -- 55 -- somewhere between 50 percent, 60 percent of the American people are in some kind of government program right now. The reality here is that, you know, these things haven't been -- you know, the final version of this isn't there. But what a public option does is a couple of things that are really critical right now. One is that it provides competition to private insurance companies.
You know, the reality is that there isn't a lot of competition in most states, and I think your viewers would agree with this. In most states you have one or two companies that are really dominant, maybe three in the bigger states, but you don't have a huge amount of choice. And, of course, most of us take what our employers give us...
HARRIS: Right.
DUNN: ... and don't get any choice at all.
And this is basically saying if you are dropped by your employer, if you're one of the 14,000 Americans who every day are losing their health insurance right now, either because their employers are dropping them, because they're on COBRA, they can't afford it any longer, I mean, if you're one of those people, there's an option for you. And it's an option where you get to look at different plans and choose.
HARRIS: Got you.
DUNN: It's not a government-run program, but it's one that will actually allow you to -- well, it is a government-run program, but it's one that will allow you to basically get the stability and security that Americans feel they need right now. I mean, you know, Tony -- Tony and Elizabeth, I mean, right now, there is not a lot of stability and not a lot of security in this health insurance system.
We are in the worst recession that we have had since the Great Depression. It's a recession that began in 2007.
Millions of people have lost their jobs. Most of those people have lost their health insurance during this time. And those people -- and I heard -- you know, earlier today, I was listening to the woman who had had catastrophic health insurance, got cancer.
HARRIS: Sure. Sure.
DUNN: Discovered nothing was covered. So, a lot of people who think they have health insurance only have it up until the time that they actually need it.
HARRIS: I think that's a good point. DUNN: I mean, the reality is that this is not a system that's offering the security that I think Americans feel like they should have and that, frankly, we need in order to be...
HARRIS: Anita, can I stop you just for a second? Because I've got to get Elizabeth in here.
DUNN: Yes.
COHEN: Yes, you said something that I didn't quite catch, and I want to make sure that we're clear about it. You said that 50 percent to 60 percent of Americans are already on a government health program?
DUNN: Or have government provide health insurance in some way for them, between Medicare -- OK, between Medicaid, between VA. There are a lot of government health insurance programs out there right now.
Now, the reality is that most people who are in private insurance are not going to have their status changed under any of the health reform proposals that are being looked at right now.
COHEN: You know what, Anita? I would say I've spoken to people who really disagree with that.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
COHEN: They say once you have the public option out there, it will cost, let's say, 10 percent, 20 percent less than a private option. Your employer is going to say, oh, boy, let's do that. That's much cheaper.
DUNN: Well, but, you know, Elizabeth, I think if you look at the proposals that are being considered right now in both the House and the Senate, you will see that they're actually -- people are very cognizant of that concern.
We're not trying to put in place a plan that's going to drive private insurance out of business. We're trying to put in place a system that will give private insurance some competition and give people who are dropped by private insurance companies a place to go. I mean, right now, as you know, Elizabeth, people can't get covered if they have pre-existing conditions.
COHEN: You know what, Anita, let me ask you, because we have to go soon, how would you feel being on the public insurance program, the one -- not the one you're on now, because you're a government employee. But when we invent this public insurance program, if that comes to pass, would you put yourself and your family on it?
DUNN: Well, ask me what my alternative is. If my alternative was to have no insurance, if my alternative was to be dropped...
COHEN: But your alternative is other private insurance companies.
DUNN: I would have to compare the plans, Elizabeth. I can't compare something with nothing right now. And that's what people are trying to do right now, is to basically make these straw men. I mean, the reality is that we have a long way to go in this legislation, as I think I mentioned.
HARRIS: When are we going to get something out of the Finance Committee? I mean, we've been waiting for this -- I mean, you're as impatient as we are, aren't you? I mean, don't you want it?
DUNN: Well, maybe we have a little bit more patience than you do. But here's the deal -- they are working in a bipartisan way, and despite all of the cacophony of attacks that you've heard from Republicans this week, I think you've got to give some credit to the Republicans on the Finance Committee who are making right now a good- faith effort, despite pressure probably from their own party, to work with Democrats to try to come up with something that people can get behind.
So, you know what? You'd like to get it done. You'd like to get it done in a timely manner. We've been arguing about these things for years, and the reality is that 14,000 Americans a day lose health insurance. But would you rather get it right...
HARRIS: Yes.
DUNN: ... then get it rushed?
HARRIS: Well, that's an argument for a little bit more flexibility on a timeline here.
DUNN: Well, you know, I think we've been pretty flexible. The reality is you started this sequence by saying when are they going to produce something? They've made real progress.
In the House, we've seen significant progress overall. Three of the five committees with jurisdiction over this have reported out bills, which is enormous progress.
HARRIS: So, if we don't get anything before the recess, you're OK?
DUNN: Listen, the president's made it clear he believes we should be able to have bills reported by the recess. We should be able to pass bills. But what we're looking for more than anything else is real progress here. And I believe that real progress is being made. The president believes that we should be able to get this done by the August recess.
HARRIS: OK. Anita, thanks for your time.
Anita Dunn.
DUNN: Thank you for having me.
HARRIS: We chopped that up pretty well, didn't we?
COHEN: I hope so. HARRIS: I hope so.
Anita, appreciate it. Thanks for your time.
DUNN: Thanks.
HARRIS: All right.
Team Kyra Phillips is back just behind us here in the newsroom, and they're working away right now. They want too he hear from you on health care reform.
There you go -- Team Phillips hard at work.
You can call in your thoughts to the new Kyra hotline. Here's the number for you: 1-877-742-5760. They will be answering your questions later in the hour.
Look, here's another question for you. How high will our taxes go to pay for health care reform? And how does that stack up with the rest of the world?
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK. This just in. You know, there's an issue that's being really hotly debated right now -- gun control.
A gun control issue front and center this hour. The Senate -- Senate Democrats, really, debating a controversial proposal that would allow people to carry concealed weapons across state lines.
The vote just in. And there it is. You can see, the yeas in favor of the amendment, 58. The nays, 39. But here's the thing -- the amendment has been withdrawn because it needed 60 votes. You needed to get that 60 threshold. And as you can see, 58-39 is the vote, which means the amendment was withdrawn.
Now, supporters of the measure had argued it would help deter criminals. Opponents claim that it would endanger innocent people. And, again, the vote 58-39. Sixty votes were need. So the amendment was withdrawn.
All right, let's get back to health care reform now. Should the U.S. pay for health care reform by raising taxes on the wealthy? Just how high would those taxes go and how would that compare to other countries? Josh is here. No? All right. Let's talk health care reform with Senator Tom Coburn. And he is a frequent guest to this program. And we love having him on.
Senator, thanks for your time. We appreciate it so much.
SEN. TOM COBURN, (R) OKLAHOMA: Good to be with you.
HARRIS: I've got to ask you. I've been watching the debate before your committee, the health committee, and it's been really interesting. I know that you proposed an amendment that was essentially another view at health care -- another take on health care reform. And that amendment didn't carry the day. But I'm wondering if you felt as though your thoughts and Senator Burr's thoughts on health care reform were considered by the full committee and whether or not you felt you got a fair hearing.
COBURN: Well, go -- if you go and look at the votes on all the amendments, it was 13-10, 13-10, 13-10. They didn't stray for that except for Bob Casey on some pro-life issues. So that was the plan when they came in.
You know, the unfortunate thing is -- and I think the president's right. He really does want a bipartisan effort. And that's what it's going to take for it to be meaningful for the American people. But the approach to it is kind of like a doctor practicing bad medicine.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
COBURN: If you fix only symptoms and don't treat the disease, all you're going to do is cover up the disease. The disease is going to get worse. And the premise from which they're coming is that we have to spend more money on health care.
HARRIS: Right.
COBURN: And I totally reject that, Tony. We spend twice as much as any nation in the world per capita.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
COBURN: So, what is happening is we're not getting good value. And what we have to do is have a bill that will lower the cost of health care, not raise it. And what we're talking about with the bills -- all the bills, whether it's the Senate health or the Ways and Means bill, you're actually increasing the cost about 8 percent, 9 percent.
HARRIS: Well, help us here. Help us with what -- you know . . .
COBURN: How do you do it?
HARRIS: How do -- thank you.
COBURN: Yes, it's not hard. First of all, their Medicaid proposal costs about $1.2 trillion over the 10 years after it really starts. Our Medicaid proposal saves $1.3 trillion over the first 10 years.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
COBURN: $3 billion of that -- and what we do is we take Medicaid and give them real insurance. Right now, 40 percent of the physicians in this country won't see Medicaid patients because the reimbursements are too low.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
COBURN: So what we do is we take that Medicaid stamp off their forehead and we say, you get the same thing. And we don't raise taxes on anybody to do that. And we give them better care with availability to any doctor they want now, now that they have insurance, and we lower the cost of that care. Well, that's -- that's something that bends the cost curve down.
HARRIS: Can I -- can I -- can I suggest we do this? Because I think we need -- do you believe you'll get a second bite of the apple here with Coburn, Burr, if not the entire package, certain elements of it, when the bills come together? Do you think you'll get a second opportunity to make your pitch?
COBURN: Well, we will, on the Senate floor.
HARRIS: Right.
COBURN: What will happen is, is we have commonsense proposals. Let me make one other point here.
HARRIS: Sure. Sure. Go ahead.
COBURN: If you really don't create a system that manages chronic disease . . .
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
COBURN: Where you contain the costs of that and you incentive the management of that, either through whether it's a Medicare program or an insurance program through Medicaid or private insurance where you're incentivizing, we'll never get control of the costs.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
COBURN: So that has to be the number one concern. In the bill that came through the health committee, we create 84 new government programs that's going to require over 100,000 new federal employees to manage.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
COBURN: Think about that.
HARRIS: OK.
COBURN: So, what we have to do is focus. We've got good health care. Oh, about 30 percent better cure rates on cancer. About 1 million people a year live in this country that die in either England or Canada because of our system. We don't want to throw that out.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
COBURN: And what we -- we can do everything the president wants. We can allow people to keep their insurance. We can not raise taxes. We can bend the cost curve down. We can not put anybody between you and your doctor, but it's going to require compromise and we're going to have to put common sense into it, not government sense into it.
HARRIS: OK. So, senator, let's flash forward here to this evening. What do you want to hear from the president? I know you would love to hear an endorsement of the principles you're outlining here. But, you know, short of that, what would you like to hear, maybe if not changing the goal, maybe changing the grip? What would you like to hear?
COBURN: Well, I'd like for him -- you know, I would like for him to say, you know, getting this right is more important than meeting a political deadline. And -- because it affects every person in this country. No matter who you are, this bill is the biggest bill that this country will have ever faced and dealt with as far as how it impacts. So, I would want him to back off of the time line and say, let's get it right.
HARRIS: Right.
COBURN: Number two is, let's start over and let's not have truly a partisan -- we're going to, it's our way or the highway, because there really hadn't been hardly any reaching. We'll see if the Senate Finance Committee comes with that.
But let's start over. Let's really do malpractice reform in terms of incentivizing per state. Not mandating. But give the states some incentive them to that because that's 8 percent of our cost right now in the country. Let's fix Medicare. It's unsustainable right now. If we're going to really fix health care, let's fix it all.
HARRIS: Well, let's do this.
COBURN: And let's do it in a way that the American people won't charge to it their grandkids. That's the other important point.
HARRIS: OK, let's -- yes, yes, let's do this. Let's continue this conversation. We love having you on the program. You know, we think you're a reasonable voice in all of this and we're trying to stay out of the echo chamber of all the noise and we're trying to stay focused on how to get this done. So if you wouldn't mind, we've got an open invitation for you to come on the program.
COBURN: I'd be happy to. I'd love to come back.
HARRIS: We like having you on the program. All right, Senator Coburn, thanks for you time. We appreciate it.
COBURN: All right. See you. Take care.
HARRIS: All right. A look at health care and taxes around the world next in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And this just in to CNN.
An update in the Michael Jackson death investigation. Investigators are searching the building in Houston, Texas, right now. This is happening live. A live picture for you. Housing the medical offices of Dr. Conrad Murray. He, as you know, is the doctor who was with Jackson at the time of his death on June 25th. We have learned that the Drug Enforcement Agency is assisting Los Angeles Police detectives. We will have more information as soon as it becomes available.
A quick break. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: All right. Should the U.S. pay for health care reform by raising taxes on the wealthy? Just how high would those taxes actually go? And how would that compare to other nations? All right. This could be pretty provocative. Josh is here to track that for us.
Good to see us again, Josh.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did that give you a little deja vu, Tony?
HARRIS: Yes. Yes, yes, it did.
LEVS: A little bit?
HARRIS: Yes, a little bit.
LEVS: YOU know, sometimes I feel like I need a flowchart to follow these debates over health care, $1.3 trillion, $1.3 million, $46 million. It's all these numbers.
What I want to do right now is drill down on one of the main figures that you're going to be hearing a lot and that is really significant. Let me tell you what the deal is.
First of all, cnnpolitics.com is breaking down a lot of this for you, following the issue.
This right here is a group called The Tax Foundation. Now it's a private search group that supports simpler tax laws and lower rates. And there's one big point they're making that I have in a graphic for you. Let's go straight to it. I want to show everyone what they're saying. It maps about how high it will get on the wealthiest Americans.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEVS: They're talking about this possibility that some House Democrats have floated of a 5.4 percent health surtax. So adding that much in taxes to the wealthiest Americans, those making a million bucks or more, they're saying if you did that, then in 39 states, you would have the wealthiest Americans paying more than half their income in taxes. They're saying it would go so incredibly high that in 39 states, when you add everything together, all those different taxes, it would go over 50 percent.
HARRIS: Wow.
LEVS: And I have one more thing here to contextualize for you. Let's show you this graphic here. This is how taxes work in America. The top 20 percent of our country already pays 69 percent of the total taxes in the country. And the middle, it's up to you what counts as middle class, but the middle of the country pays a total of 30 percent. And the bottom 20 percent, just 1 percent. So you can see already the wealthiest Americans do pay a very large share of the taxes.
HARRIS: Sure.
LEVS: Some people think they should pay even more. The debate rages on. But what you're seeing there is this debate about should this be added to the wealthiest Americans.
Now, Tony, you mentioned other countries, right?
HARRIS: Right. Right.
LEVS: One great place to find this. This is a really interesting Web site. Worldwidetax.com. Check this out.
I want to show you something. Tax rates around the world. They have a chart where you can basically scroll through and see any country at all. So, for example, Austria, skip everything except what I point to. The income taxes can go as high there as 50 percent. Bulgaria, they're saying 10 percent. You can pretty much scroll through the entire world here. Germany, up to 45 percent there. Whoops.
So that's what it takes you through basically, this chart that shows you all these different countries. And by comparison, it shows you where the United States would fall. And, actually, I'm going to end on that. Let's go way down here. You can see the United States right now. Our total range officially as of right now is up to 35 percent. So, in the United States, that's the highest income tax you have right now, 35 percent.
Now, I need to pour caveat sauce over all of this. I think it just lay it down on dish.
HARRIS: Yes, you really do. Right.
LEVS: Every economy works differently. Taxes work differently. Taxes are used for different -- in different ways. We have a very dynamic economy in many ways. It is very not apples and apples. But, two things. One, you're going to hear a lot of these comparisons and it is interesting to check it out.
And, two, there are a lot of places that say, you know what, you can learn from other countries. The way the United States thinks that a lot of countries can learn some things from us. So it's just one element to factor in as you check it out, worldwidetaxes.com. There it is on your screen -- Tony.
HARRIS: Terrific. Boy, we are all over this today.
LEVS: I know. We're zooming today.
HARRIS: Josh, appreciate it. Yes, we really are.
Health care expected to dominate President Obama's news conference tonight. CNN will bring you live coverage of the news conference. That's tonight, 8:00 Eastern. That is 5:00 Pacific.
Ever wonder what it's like to change batteries in zero gravity? We'll show you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And to the Senate floor from just moments ago. South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham announcing his decision on how he will vote on the nomination of justice -- or Judge Sonia Sotomayor to be the next associate justice to the Supreme Court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you, Madam President.
I take the floor today to inform the Senate, my colleagues, about how I intend to vote on the pending nomination of Supreme Court Nominee Judge Sotomayor. I understand the path of least resistance for me personally would be to vote no. That's probably true anytime you're in a minority party and you lost the election. But I feel compelled to vote yes. And I feel that this is the right vote for me. And, quite frankly, for the country in this case.
Why do I say that? Elections have consequences. I told Judge Sotomayor in the hearing that if I had won the election, even though I wasn't running, or Senator McCain, she would probably not have been chosen by a Republican. We would have chosen someone with a more...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: All right. And there you have it. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina stating on the Senate floor that he plans to vote in favor of the nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor to become the next associate justice to the Supreme Court. So, add Senator Lindsey Graham to the growing list of Republicans who will vote in favor of the nominee. Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana, Mel Martinez of Florida, Olympia Snowe of Maine, Susan Collins of Maine, now add Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.
A quick break. We're back in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: All right. Let's get you to our Ted Rowlands right now, and Ted is following developments out of Houston, Texas, right now.
And, Ted, talk us through what is going on right now. I believe we have, if not live pictures, pictures from just a short time ago of a search that's underway right now.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. What you're seeing, Tony, is the DEA helping out with a search warrant being executed on the offices, the clinic, of Dr. Conrad Murray. This is the doctor that was with Michael Jackson at the time of his death. He has been interviewed by investigators here in Los Angeles. But, clearly, they are going in looking for more material.
We just got off the phone with a spokesperson for Dr. Murray's attorneys. They say they are completely surprised by this. They said that they have been cooperating. In fact, they said anything that they want from us, we're more than willing to give them, saying that they're surprised that a search warrant was served.
Clearly what is happening here is that at some level in this investigation there was enough probable cause for them to take it to another level. Now whether they are looking at Dr. Murray's complete history, at other patients outside the Jackson case, we don't know. But clearly something during this investigation prompted them to take this to another level and that's why you're seeing this search warrant served.
HARRIS: Well, you know this is -- yes, Ted, this is interesting because we'd heard rumblings and accounts that it was beginning to become less likely that charges would be filed in any way, shape, or form in this case. And then you see something like this going on and you wonder, to your point, something has obviously happened here.
ROWLANDS: Yes. And, you know, as far as charges being filed or not filed, we've heard every, from both extremes.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes, that's true. That's true.
ROWLANDS: We won't know until -- we're waiting on the coroner's report. According to the coroner here in L.A., toxicology is back. They are waiting on some tissue samples and some analysis of those and they are, obviously, writing these reports. They're not going to make this public until they have figured everything out. Obviously they're going very slowly with this. But they have the toxicology back, according to the coroner's office here, and maybe that plays into this, maybe it doesn't. But, clearly, at some point in this investigation, there was probable cause. Enough probable cause for them to go get a warrant and not just ask for whatever materials they're looking for, but to go in, unannounced, and search themselves for it.
HARRIS: Well, if you would, walk us through the Conrad Murray story to this point. As you mentioned, he was with Michael Jackson. And my recollection is that immediately after he disappeared for a while. Is that correct? And he wasn't available to the authorities. And then at some point he became available and submitted to at least one interview, right?
ROWLANDS: Yes. Well, he definitely didn't disappear from anywhere but here's basically what happened. We'll just start from the beginning here quickly. HARRIS: Yes, please, please.
ROWLANDS: Murray meets Jackson back in 2005/2006 in Las Vegas. When Jackson's preparing for this tour, he wants Murray to be his personal physician. So he's hired by AEG for $150,000 a month basically to make sure this guy is healthy. Jackson dies in his care at his home. Murray went with Jackson -- you heard him on that 911 call. He was -- he performed CPR. There was some controversy about that too because he did it on the bed. But he went with Jackson to the hospital, talked to doctors there, talked to investigators there.
HARRIS: OK.
ROWLANDS: There was a lapse of time where he was waiting for his attorney to come from Houston before he went in to talk to investigators.
HARRIS: Oh, oh, oh, oh, I see, I see.
ROWLANDS: And there's where this disappearance comes in. He absolutely never disappeared.
HARRIS: OK. Ted, we appreciate it. And, once again, let's take a look at these pictures now. As Ted mentioned, a search warrant has been issued. A search is underway right now in the Houston offices of Dr. Conrad Murray. What has changed in this case? We don't know the full details, but we are following it for you. Ted Rowlands.
Ted, appreciate it. Thank you.
And Ted will be following these developments throughout the afternoon.
Time for us to go. We're pushing forward now with the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM with Kyra Phillips.
