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Biden Criticizes Russia; Small Business Owners Wary About Health Care Reform; Gov. Palin Bids Farewell; Obama Invites Professor Gates and Sgt. Crowley to the White House
Aired July 25, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Off the cuff: Vice President Joe Biden making explosive and critical comments about Russia's past, present and future. And he says the U.S. holds all the cards. Wait until you hear what the Russians say.
Tough week: The president losing ground on health care reform and trying to save face over a racially-charged issue that is dividing the nation. What is his next move?
And let's talk: The president wants to meet the cop and the professor over a few beers at the White House. Our experts on race, policing and social media are standing by to walk us through that tough conversation, what that will look like.
Make sure you tell us what you want to know. Log on to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, or iReport.com, because the conversation starts right now.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.
You know, we're used to hearing the vice president, Vice President Joe Biden speaking his mind. After all, that's one reason President Obama says he chose him to be the vice president.
Now, as Biden wraps up a trip overseas to Georgia and Ukraine, his willingness to speak out is again making headlines. In an interview with "The Wall Street Journal," the vice president abandons typical diplomatic niceties and says things about the Russian government no one else in the Obama administration is saying at least not publicly.
"They have a shrinking population base," he says. "They have a withering economy. They have a banking sector and structure that is not likely to be able to withstand the next 15 years. They're in a situation where the world is changing before them and they're clinging to something that -- something in the past that is not sustainable."
Well, the Russian government appears to be a little perplexed by Vice President Biden's reported comments. The chief foreign policy advisor to Russia's president, well, he has this response, as quoted by Interfax and "The New York Times": "If some members of Obama's team and government do not like this atmosphere, why don't they say so?" he says. "If they disagree with the course of their president, we just need to know this."
Let's bring in now, our senior political analyst, Mr. Bill Schneider, to talk about Vice President Joe Biden's remarks.
Are you surprised by them, Bill?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, very undiplomatic. True -- they may very well be true. Russia has very deep economic problems. They do have a shrinking population base. They're in very serious trouble.
But you don't say that if you're in the business of diplomacy. He even acknowledges that. He said, "It is never smart to embarrass an individual or country when they're dealing with a significant loss of face." The vice president doesn't listen to his own advice.
LEMON: This one quote stood out to me. And I know the vice president goes off the cuff sometimes and it has, you know, been...
SCHNEIDER: It has.
LEMON: It's gotten him in trouble a few times. He says, "You know, I can see Putin sitting in Moscow saying, 'Jesus Christ, Iran gets a nuclear weapon, who goes first?' If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Moscow, not Washington." I mean, Bill?
SCHNEIDER: That's -- it's called rubbing it in. Saying these things publicly, even though they probably are true, I mean, for everything we know, Russia is in -- has serious problems. But we need Russian cooperation. We need them to cooperate on their claim of this sphere of influence in the former Soviet republics. We need they're help on Iran and North Korea. And you don't get that sort of help by insulting them.
He even, in the interview, he even goes so far as to insult one of America's friends, one of Russia's former satellites, or actually, it was part of the Soviet Union, Georgia. He visited Georgia and he said, "You know, the president of Georgia, Saakashvili, said that they were going to try to promote democratic institutions. And Joe Biden said in this interview, "The opposition believes the only reason he said it was because I was coming."
Now, that may be true, but you don't say that.
LEMON: What does this do for the relationship between -- I'm not sure if it does anything about the relationship between the two men, I'm talking about President Obama and the vice president -- but what does it do to the relationship between the United States and Russia and its allies?
SCHNEIDER: It's a little embarrassing. In the Russian response, you saw, you just put on the air how the Russian advisor responded to it. The Russians would like to probably talk to the Obama administration a little bit about this and a little about -- a lot about those public comments, because, in their view, this spoils the atmosphere for the cooperation that the United States desperately needs as well as Russia for their own self-interest.
Biden is correct. LEMON: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: I'm not saying anything Biden said is wrong. I'm just saying, it spoils the atmosphere to say those things out loud. It's very undiplomatic.
LEMON: And at the very least, it puts one more thing on the president's plate. And he's had a tough week so far.
Bill, I'm going to talk to you about that in a little bit. Stick around. Thank you.
SCHNEIDER: OK.
LEMON: President Obama's push to reform health care seems to be flat-lining. His hopes for a quick vote, well, they've all but banished, and congressional Democrats are divided on this. In short, he is fighting to hold focus on Capitol Hill.
And our Kate Bolduan is at the White House for us -- Kate?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, trying to return the focus to his top domestic priority, President Obama is out fighting for momentum in the debate over health care.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN (voice-over): President Obama, in his weekly address, is pitching to small businesses across the country, saying they will only benefit from health care reform.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are the mom- and-pop stores and restaurants, beauty shops and construction companies that support families and sustain communities. Right now they are getting crushed by skyrocketing health care costs.
BOLDUAN: We talked to two small business owners who face similar challenges every day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good afternoon, Guernsey Office Products.
BOLDUAN: David Guernsey employs 170 people at Guernsey Office Products in Virginia. Brian England has 18 employees at his Maryland auto repair shop. Both small businesses that provide insurance to their workers but both admit it's getting harder and harder to keep up.
DAVID GUERNSEY, PRES., GUERNSEY OFFICE PRODUCTS: Top line is not going up, gross profit is not going up. Expenses in teams of health care will go up and that affects the bottom line.
BRIAN ENGLAND, BRITISH AMERICAN AUTO CARE, INC.: The pay is the number one expense over running a business. Next is rent, and then next is health care. So, it's third in line, a very large third.
BOLDUAN: These men and their employees are keeping close watch on Washington and the health care debate. One idea England supports, requiring employers to provide coverage. He says it would help level the playing field for him against competitors.
ENGLAND: And every year it gets worse because the rates go up, more employers stop providing the complete coverage and then that makes a big problem for the ones that are left.
BOLDUAN: But Guernsey fears that expanded coverage could come with an expanded price small businesses simply can't afford.
GUERNSEY: If the requirement were such that the kind of coverage we offered were dramatically different, dramatically more comprehensive and the cost accordingly would go up significantly, that would then be a problem.
BOLDUAN: Instead, Guernsey hopes small businesses will be allowed to pool their coverage to help drive down prices.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: President Obama supports allowing small businesses to buy coverage through an insurance exchange where he says they could shop for different, cheaper plans for their employees. Wednesday the president heads to North Carolina and Virginia to continue selling the White House reform efforts -- Don?
LEMON: All right. Kate, thank you very much for that.
From Washington to Alaska, and Sarah Palin's final hours as governor. She leaves office tomorrow, but not before saying good-bye to the people who elected her. She's hosting several picnics this weekend, including one this afternoon, in Anchorage.
CNN all-platform journalist Chris Welch is there. He joins us by phone from Anchorage.
Chris, Sarah Palin has criticized the media repeatedly over the last few months. How has she treated the media in the last few days since you've been there?
CHRIS WELCH, CNN ALL-PLATFORM JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, it's funny. I spent a good portion of last night at her picnic in Wasilla trying to get close enough even just to ask her something pretty simply, what are you doing with your last two days? What's on your mind? How are you feeling? And you tried to shout that at her.
Really, the only thing back that we got was, "Yes, 48 hours left" and she ran and she turned around. And media trying to get close, her handlers, they often get quite touchy-feely. They get pushy and a little vicious once in a while.
But there are throngs of people, lots of people trying to take pictures of the woman, get autographs. They're everywhere. And especially last night in Wasilla, her hometown, she had a great reception there. LEMON: That's what I was going to ask you. I mean, usually, she's pretty receptive to the media and they'll catch her out fishing and whatever, and she's very open to doing interviews. But who's there? Are these only, you know, Palin supporters at these events?
WELCH: Well, it's not just Palin supporters, though that has been the primary makeup. Last night and even today in Anchorage, for the most part, it's supporter.
I ran into a few people today though who say they're definitely not Palin supporters, they're not Palin fans. They just wish, you know, she'd go away. But they came out because, you know, they live here and they wanted to take a look at the spectacle and see what it's all about and, often, just come to the picnic and have a good time.
LEMON: OK. What are you hearing talk from her supporters at all, I'm not sure if you are, about 2012? Does anybody talking about that?
WELCH: Well, there's a lot of people in the crowds with signs that say "Palin 2012," and even, you know, the occasional shout at Palin from people just, you know, "President 2012," "President Palin," "commander in chief" -- all kinds of shout all the time.
Now, when you actually sit down and talk to people and say, "Do you think she will run for president in 2012?" They say, "Well, I don't know. Maybe. It would be nice. But, you know, I just want her to be happy." That's what her supporters are saying.
LEMON: All right. Chris Welch, we appreciate it, sir.
Well, a quick reminder for you. Sarah Palin will deliver a farewell speech tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. Easter. Make sure you join us here on CNN and watch it live. We'll carry it for you.
Let's go back to Washington now. Sarah Palin is stepping down, the huge battle over health care and, of course, the national discussion over the president's comments about the arrest of a Harvard professor. Lots to talk about in Washington.
We talked about Joe Biden now, the vice president, Vice President Joe Biden I should say. Let's talk now about those other issues. We're going to bring Bill back.
Bill, do you think that President Obama may be looking at his next opponent in Sarah Palin come 2012?
SCHNEIDER: It doesn't look that way. Her reputation has taken a hit. A lot of Republicans seem to be turning against her. She's still has the support of Republicans and conservatives, but not nearly as strong as it was last year. Too many of them are seeing this action of leaving the governorship as quitting, as leaving a job right in the middle and they don't admire that.
LEMON: OK. Let's talk, let's go to health care real quick because there are a number of different topics I want to talk about. You know, we talked earlier and you said, this is really all about -- this whole fight is about knowing your political strategy, knowing how to navigate Washington, really getting out in the trenches -- and not necessarily with the American people as a president often does -- but with the folks in Washington and winning them over.
How is the president doing with that?
SCHNEIDER: Not spectacularly well, because he's facing dissention within the Democratic Party. A lot of members of Congress are saying, "We're not sure what the president wants, what he'll settle for."
He needs to do legislative arm-twisting. I pointed out that that's where he's missing Tom Daschle. He used to be the Senate majority leader and was his first choice to be secretary of health and human services and is a master legislative strategist. He has some smart legislative people with experience there, but apparently, they're not being very effective.
You know, the philosopher, Niccolo Machiavelli once said, "A leader doesn't have to be loved; he has to be feared." And one of the problems with this -- a lot of members of Congress don't fear President Obama or what he can do with them -- to them if they break ranks with him.
LEMON: I don't know many people who would bring up Machiavelli in here.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: A very smart man.
LEMON: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So, let's talk about this other issue that some say, you know, not -- I guess it didn't derail health care but at least it derailed the talks about health care or the attention from the media and from the American people.
Where do you see this going next? The president wants to sit down with these guys, beers in the White House. But this is a tough conversation to have. Everyone I'm getting remarks from are saying, "You know what? They should have cameras in there because the whole world needs to hear this conversation."
SCHNEIDER: The world does need to hear it. And the core of this issue -- I mean, the president said he overreacted. Professor Gates overreacted. The police sergeant overreacted. Everyone overreacted.
But there is a serious conversation at the heart of this and it should be about stereotyping and the damage that they do. You know, too many people stereotype African-American men as guilty, as criminals. Too many people stereotype white police officers as racists. Those stereotypes are very damaging.
That's exactly what we're seeing in this incident with everyone overreacting. That's the issue. Stereotyping, what do you do about it? What consequences does it have? How do you fight that? That's the conversation that we need to it have.
LEMON: We need to have that conversation but that conversation is tough to have because people are -- you know, people get upset. You can't -- you know, they don't like -- they're afraid of being called racist or ignorant about something if they have the conversation, a real deep conversation.
And guess what? We're going to do that, Bill, coming up in about 15 minutes or so.
SCHNEIDER: Very good.
LEMON: A conversation that we're going to talk about what that conversation in the White House might be like.
SCHNEIDER: Good.
LEMON: So, send in your comments. Bill Schneider, we really appreciate it.
SCHNEIDER: Thanks.
LEMON: Let's take you overseas now where there was a shootout in Afghanistan between the Taliban and security forces. Tonight, NATO says it ended with at least seven suicide attackers dead. It happened today in the city of Khost on the Afghan-Pakistani border. Government officials tell CNN the Taliban insurgents wore suicide vests and brandish machine guns when they struck a bank, a police station and a military hospital. More than a dozen people were wounded, most of them civilians.
All over the world today, people are demanding the release of hundreds of Iranians arrested after the June presidential election. The protests stretched across six continents and about 100 cities.
We begin with new video from the nation's capital where demonstrators marched from the U.N., from that office downtown to the White House. Nobel Peace Prize laureate Jody Williams called for human rights in Iran and an end to the violence following the June 12th presidential vote.
In New York City, crowds gathered outside the United Nations building. The demonstrators want U.N. Security General Ban Ki-moon to send a delegation to Iran to investigate the fate of the detainees. They're also demanding the immediate release of all political prisoners and journalists.
In London, protesters waved green flags and wore green wristbands, the color of the opposition party in Iran. Demonstrators also blind-folded, gagged and chained themselves together. They supporting the protesters they say were silenced in Iran after the election.
A Harvard professor arrested in his own home. Who is to blame for the snowballing effect? It depends on who you talk to, the police officer, the professor, even the president. Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight about that story and any others. Go to MySpace, Facebook, iReport.com or Twitter. We're going to present your questions and your comments to our panel of experts on this subject.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Obama says all of us can learn from it, "a teachable moment" he calls it. He is talking about the snowballing turn of events following the arrest of a Harvard professor by Cambridge police. Now, as we all know by now, the professor is black, the officer is white. And the incident spotlighted some of the most sensitive issues in American society, including race and police profiling.
Where does it go from here?
CNN's Elaine Quijano is in Cambridge, Massachusetts, tonight with the very latest -- Elaine?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, President Obama tried turning down the volume on this story by calling both Professor Gates and Sergeant Crowley and inviting them both to White House. He also tried walking back his comments from Wednesday, when he said that Cambridge police, quote, "acted stupidly."
How's all that being received here in Cambridge? Pretty well, it seems.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: It wasn't a full-out presidential apology.
OBAMA: In my choice of words, I think, I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sergeant Crowley specifically. And I could have calibrated those words differently.
QUIJANO: But for police officers in Cambridge, Massachusetts, united in their outrage, the president's expression of regret appears to be enough.
SGT. LEON LASHLEY, CAMBRIDGE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We were happy. It was a -- it was a good thing. We said, yes. I mean, you would give him the high-fives.
QUIJANO: Sergeant Leon Lashley of the Cambridge Police Department was on the scene the day his colleague, Sergeant James Crowley, arrested prominent African-American Harvard professor, Henry Gates, on Gates' property.
LASHLEY: Would it have been different had I shown up first? And I think it probably would have been different.
QUIJANO: But he says he supports the actions Crowley took that day. LASHLEY: I too probably would have placed him under arrest if it gotten too much further out of control.
QUIJANO: At this national conference of black law enforcement executives in Virginia, the consensus that what happened in Cambridge can be a valuable training tool in navigating the complex issues surrounding law enforcement and minorities. While most steered clear of commenting specifically on the Gates' case, one officer believes police deserve the benefit of the doubt.
LT. CHARLES BROWN, AKRON, OHIO POLICE: I would say that it's a tough job for law enforcement to make those decisions on the spot. I would say that we need to look at all of the possibilities that what could have happened.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Meanwhile here in Cambridge, in a written statement, a coalition of area police unions said that Sergeant Crowley was profoundly grateful that President Obama had taken the time to try to resolve the situation. The statement went on to say that it's clear President Obama respects police officers. Don?
LEMON: All right. Elaine, thank you very much for that.
And make sure you join us in the bottom of the hour, in about 10 minutes or so. You want to stick around for this. We're going to have a panel discussion. We have some experts here on race, diversity, policing, profiling. We're going to take your questions and we're going to have an open, honest, and frank discussion.
You don't want to miss it -- coming up in 10 minutes, right here on CNN.
A sudden tornado shreds an east coast Florida community, leaving dozens of neighbors with a monstrous cleanup project. The twister slammed pieces of mobile homes into upper branches of trees. It all happened in Port Orange, Florida. It sent debris flying across their yards. You can see that there.
One people was hospitalized with minor injuries from shattered glass. More than 160 homes were damaged.
Well, tonight, parts of the Ohio Valley facing a hail and wind threat right now.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes.
LEMON: And Jacqui Jeras in the CNN severe weather center. What's going on -- in the middle and in the southeast?
JERAS: In the south. Yes.
LEMON: Yes.
JERAS: You know, we've had a lot of action throughout Florida today. And those pictures, Don, were just amazing. Believe it or not, that's what we call an EF-0 tornado, the weakest of all tornadoes, with estimated winds between 65 and 85 miles per hour. And that's the kind of damage even a weak tornado can cause.
Speaking of tornadoes, check out some of these pictures. They're actually waterspouts. This was sent in from a viewer as well. And there you can see, you've got to look way down here in the water, and there you can see a little bit of the debris.
You start to see the funnel forming a little bit more here. We're going to continue to progress along. It becomes a little bit tighter, becomes a little bit stronger. And then we see a really well-developed, strong looking waterspout.
Look at that. Just off the shore. There was one yesterday, by the way, in Ormond Beach. That did start out as a waterspout, made its way on land and it becomes a tornado and it did cause a little bit of damage.
So, we'll be watching Florida today as well. There you can see the showers and thunderstorms have been really strong here across southern parts of the state. We've also had some pretty nasty thunderstorms up toward the Jacksonville area.
In the northeast, we have two watch boxes here and really looking at the threat of maybe wind and maybe a little bit of hail damage as well. New York City down towards Philly, this is going to come in late for you tonight.
But check out what's going on around Washington, D.C., some very intense thunderstorms. If you're heading out tonight, try and wait until this line passes. We also have a lot of problems at the area airports because of these thunderstorms, even if it's not storming in your city, the planes are having to try and fly around them.
So, make sure you call ahead if you got a flight tonight -- Don?
LEMON: If you're heading out tonight, maybe you might want to think of some alternate plans, right?
JERAS: Not a bad idea.
LEMON: Not a bad idea. Yes, you could always stay home and watch us, right?
JERAS: Watch CNN for a couple of hours before you head out.
LEMON: Jacqui, you took the words out of my mouth. You're so smart. Thank you very much.
Something is brewing in Massachusetts and one woman is spilling the beans on how she hopes to cash in on it.
Plus -- forget about who's right and who's wrong. Where do we go from here? Experts on race live right here on CNN -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You know, there is an old saying, "Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life."
CNN's Stephanie Elam found a woman whose passion for coffee has given her a new daily grind.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lucy Valena is hooked on coffee.
LUCY VALENA, OWNER, VOLTAGE COFFEE: I had my first shot of espresso when I was 14. And it pretty -- it was pretty amazing for me.
ELAM: With the dream of opening a coffee house, Valena went to Seattle to learn at the aprons of the best.
VALENA: I just saw this barista pour that Rosetta, and I said, "I'm not leaving this town until I learn how to do that.
ELAM: Valena returned to Boston, and last fall, launched a Voltage Coffee, a mobile espresso catering company. Her corporate headquarters...
VALENA: This is where all the magic happens, yes.
ELAM: Valena knew her business acumen could use a jolt. So with the help of the few aides...
VALENA: I wrote my business plan with all of these "Business Plan Writing for Dummies" and all these things.
ELAM: Valena then took her plan to the Small Business Administration and was directed to ACCION USA, a company specializing in micro-loans. It had just begun a partnership with Samuel Adams, to help small food and beverage business get funding and free advice.
JIM KOCH, FOUNDER, SAMUEL ADAMS: I love Lucy's dedication to the quality of her product. And I'm a big believer that, you know, a great product and the patience that an entrepreneur brings to that can carry a long way if you have a helping hand.
ELAM: Valena started Voltage with her $2,000 and a $4,000 loan she got through the Sam Adams Brewing the American Dream Program.
VALENA: So, it covered the espresso machine, the grinders, my table, some membership costs, licensing, and my costs for a few months with the commercial kitchen facility that I use.
ELAM: Now, she's focused on a storefront, but she has to incorporate, find a space and get a loan.
VALENA: I need to convince someone to give me 180 grand. I mean, that's a good chunk of change. ELAM: Despite the economy, Valena remains undaunted.
VALENA: I'm just going to keep working at it. I'm not letting up. I'm not letting up, Boston. I don't care.
(LAUGHTER)
ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: OK. It's time now, because it has been the topic of the week: The professor, the police officer, and the president. Now what? Want to learn something? Stick around for this. These people know it all. We're going to talk about diversity, about racism, about profiling, about social media. Our experts live in the NEWSROOM and we're taking your comments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Now on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started innocently enough, one neighbor looking out for another.
(on camera): A woman in the neighborhood saw what was going on and mistook it for a crime in progress, calling police, reporting two African-American men with backpacks trying to force their way in.
JOHNS (voice-over): It turns out one of those African-American men lived in the home. A prominent scholar and a friend of President Obama's. When the cops showed up, the trouble had just begun.
SGT. JAMES CROWLEY, CAMBRIDGE POLICE: I was continuously telling him to calm down during this exchange because I really didn't want this either. I really didn't want to take such a drastic action because I knew that it was going to bring a certain amount of attention, unwanted attention on me. Nonetheless, that's how far Professor Gates pushed it and provoked and just wouldn't stop.
HENRY LOUIS GATES, JR., HARVARD PROFESSOR: What it made me realize was how vulnerable all black men are. How vulnerable all people of color are and all poor people to capricious forces like a rogue policeman.
JOHNS: One officer supporting Sergeant Crowley said he heard Gates say this.
SGT. LEON LASHLEY, CAMBRIDGE, MASS. POLICE: This is how a black man is treated in America. A white woman calls the police and he gets arrested for breaking into his own home.
LEMON: The case was basically dropped until this question to the president. VOICE OF LYNN SWEET, "CHICAGO SUN TIME": Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know, having not being there, not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. The Cambridge Police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.
JOHNS: From a simple arrest to a presidential smack-down to a defiant police department calling out the commander in chief.
DENNIS O'CONNOR, POLICE UNION PRESIDENT: As far as the president's comments, the governor's comments and comments that I did not hear that our mayor made, I think when the time is right they should make apology to us. I think the president should make an apology to all law enforcement personnel.
OFC. KELLY KING, CAMBRIDGE, MASS. POLICE: I voted for him. I supported him. I will not again. I agree that I think it's admirable that he would speak on behalf of his friend, but he should have recluse himself. He should have stepped back and he should have said, I support my friend, but I don't have all the facts. I won't weigh in yet.
JOHNS: The president felt the pressure and a need to explain.
OBAMA: The fact that it has garnered so much attention I think is a testimony to the fact that these are issues that are still very sensitive here in America. And you know, so to the extent that my choice of words didn't illuminate but rather contributed to more media frenzy, I think that was unfortunate.
JOHNS: He proposes a meeting at the White House. So what happens when the president, the professor, and the police officer sit down? Let's talk right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And I mean that. Let's talk. We are going to have an open conversation here. I want to introduce you to a few people who are experts on the subject and we picked them very carefully. Buck Davis is a diversity and inclusion consultant with Global Ascent Consulting. Al Vivian is the president and CEO of Basic Diversity. He has provided training to everyone from CEOs to sanitation workers. Both are with me in Atlanta today.
Now, I want to introduce you to Ronald Hampton. He is with the National Black Police Association. He is in Washington and James Andrews is a blogger and a social media expert. He has written about many social issues especially the present topic. He is going to talk to us about what has been happening on social media about this issue and how we can have a conversation similar to the president, what the president is having with these men online. That's the way to get it to the entire world and do it very quickly. I'm holding this because I'm going to read from - I don't have my computer so I'll read from Facebook. OK. So Buck, we'll start with you.
BUCK DAVIS, GLOBAL ASCENT CONSULTING: All right.
LEMON: When this all went down, I would imagine that you, you know, you saw it coming and you know, from teaching, how these things can escalate. Why did this escalate? Let me take that back. What is the first thing the president and those gentlemen should do when they sit down and speak?
DAVIS: They should absolutely set some ground rules how they're going to be with one another, to make sure that they're going to have an open dialogue. That they're going to listen to one another, to make sure that they're gaining each other's perspective and they sit down and they be open and honest about their true feelings about race and what it feels like to feel like you have been portrayed as racist and also what it feels like to be portrayed as a thief in your own home.
LEMON: OK. What is the biggest stumbling block not only in this possible conversation but in conversations like this that you have. Because I know you have them every day when you teach.
DAVIS: The fear for white folk is the fear of looking like a racist. We don't want the conversation because we don't want anybody to look at us like we are part of that population who really wants to generally oppress a group of people. We don't want to appear like we are racist.
LEMON: And that's usually - what about for people of color, for, you know, black or brown or Asian people? Is there a big fear there as well?
DAVIS: I think the fear is that they're not going to be heard or listened to, or it may be, here we go again, just to have another conversation that won't be valued.
LEMON: All right. Let's talk to Al. Al, when you're doing this, thank you very much, you do this. You talk basic diversity as well. And when he said fear of being a racist, you said uh-huh.
AL VIVIAN, PRES. &CEO, BASIC DIVERSITY: Absolutely.
LEMON: I have conversations - I have it with friends and people I know. I've had this conversation with Buck Davis. Buck talks to me about diversity and about racial issues all the time. And he's one of the most honest people I know about that. But you can't have those conversations with everyone. I try to have it with people, and they all of a sudden clam up or they're looking for some sort of agenda behind it when it it's just to talk.
VIVIAN: The fact is you have to find the right way to do it. Buck's correct on setting some ground rules. This is how we're going to talk about it. This is what we're going to do. We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. You set some ground rules and then as Buck said it you've got to be very, very honest. And when you really have created an honest atmosphere, you can get that honest. It may take some time. But once you do, then you get great results. The reality is you're not going to get real great results unless you get honest. When everybody's hiding what you think, you don't get results.
LEMON: Hey, I'm going to go to Ronald real quick and then I'll go to James. I want to ask you this because I should have followed up, should have been a better questioner. Why are white people afraid of being thought about as racist? Because there are perceptions about African-Americans and about black men, but yet and still people won't want to talk about it and are open to discuss it. Why are white people afraid of being perceived racist? What's the harm in that if it gets you to something else?
DAVIS: Well, I think we don't want to say anything - for the most part, the people that I'd come in contact with, they want to do the right thing. They don't want to offend other people. They want to share their experience. The trouble is that we fear that if we have the conversation we may stumble a bit. You see, Don, this is a conversation we have not been taught to have. We didn't grow up having the conversation. It's not an easy conversation. There's a lot of history behind it. There's a lot of fear for us because we don't want to look like an offender.
LEMON: OK. You said may stumble a bit. Hang on, one second. All right. I want to go to you, Ronald Hampton, talking about the police. You know, profiling is real. There are people who say this case wasn't profiling. It was simply, you know, two hot people, two people who got into an altercation of sorts and things got out of control. But it was not racial profiling. What are your thoughts on that, firstly, before I ask you about what's the solution?
RONALD HAMPTON, NATT. BLACK POLICE ASSOCIATION: Well, first of all, I think it reflects or mirrors of the profiling situations. Profiling can take place in a number of instances. Profiling takes place when you walk into a grocery store and they follow you around. It takes place sometimes at the airport. It takes place in --
LEMON: But in this incident though, Mr. Hampton. What about in this incident?
HAMPTON: Well, it could be perceived as being racial profiling. I think if Mr. Gates had been a white man it wouldn't have ended or resulted in him getting arrested. It would have been handled altogether differently.
LEMON: All right.
HAMPTON: There's an expectation that he live in that community and therefore that's his house.
LEMON: And you have come across that as being a black police officer those sort of expectations about who lives in what neighborhoods?
HAMPTON: Oh, absolutely.
LEMON: Who drives what kinds of cars?
HAMPTON: Oh, absolutely. I've worked with guys who draw conclusions based on those kinds of assumptions. They didn't know anything about the person other than the fact they happen to be African-American person.
LEMON: OK. Standby. I want to go to James, real quick. And James, are these conversations happening online? Has this sparked something? I know that Michael Jackson, the death of Michael Jackson, Iran did, what is this doing online?
JAMES ANDREWS, CO-FOUNDER EVERYWHERE: Well, it's showing that, you know, in online space -- that's where the true conversation is happening. If you want to find out the true heartbeat of America, go to the comments section of the "Boston Globe" under the article about Professor Gates. There are plenty of honest people who are having conversations. We need to bring those things together.
LEMON: All right. And do you find that is happening online? That's happening in social media now?
ANDREWS: It's absolutely happening. It's happening in twitter. It's happening in Facebook, in what we call micro-blogging. These conversations are driving after I leave CNN tonight, it will happen, you know, online on the my blog, on my stream. It's happening all the time. It's now media.
LEMON: All right. Let's hope it's constructive. But all of you, stick around. Because we're going to talk a lot more about this. Our conversation is going to continue. And if you miss even a minute of "Black in America," I want to tell you, which talks about these issues, you can watch it in its entirety. Soledad O'Brien hosts "Black in America 2," at the top of the hour.
We're back moments away with our conversation. Don't go away.
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LEMON: All right. Right back to our conversation. I'm not even going to say their names. I want to ask you this - because I want as much time as possible. This one is from Twitter. Brother Grimace says talk about predispositions, Don, of mistrust and how to overcome that? Who wants to take that one? You want to take that, Al?
VIVIAN: Sure. You only have to overcome it by having the honest deep dialogue. You have to get to where people can say what they really think and what they really feel. We've created a PC world where you can't say anything that may be seen as wrong.
LEMON: Yes.
VIVIAN: And if you create the environment, you'll never get the real honest answer. So the reality is, we should be able to say what we think and what we feel. That's how you get to solutions. LEMON: And some of the honest answers may actually hurt you. I mean, you may go away from this with some hurt feelings. But, you know, hurt feelings often make you grow. Any time you stretch and grow it's going to hurt a little bit, whether it's professionally, personally or no matter what it is. I want to go back to James. Someone sent this, I don't remember the name of the person who sent it but whoever you are, you know who you are. They said, sadly, Don, some of the conversations happening online are not so constructive.
ANDREWS: Yes. I mean, there's not a - on-line is a place where people, you know, are saying things that are not positive, are saying things that are, you know, confounded in stuff that doesn't make sense. And that's why we need to use the online space -- I think social media, to bring folks together. I mean, it's a great place to show the divide, the racial divide, of how people feel about the subject.
LEMON: So even if the online conversation, Buck, is not that constructive, right, does it still need to be seen, or do you still need to have that? Or should there be some sort of control or parameters placed on these types of conversations?
ANDREWS: Well, I think if the conversation is not constructive it doesn't need to be happening because I think people will just bury themselves in stereotyping other people and you might set us back instead of moving us forward. If it's not constructive and positive, it doesn't need to be happening.
LEMON: All right. So Ronald, as - go ahead, Ronald. I was going to call you. Go for it.
HAMPTON: Well, what I was going to say is that you have to have the conversation. There's going to be negatives. Part of the thing- one of the things that should be happening is not only should the president be having the conversation with Gates and Crowley, he should be having a town hall meeting with people from the criminal justice community, African-Americans, other police organizations, to talk about this issue.
This is a very real issue. For example, a senator (INAUDIBLE), Senator Biden, before he became vice president, proposed legislation to address some of these disparities that's in the criminal justice system, and we keep putting it off because we are concerned about hurting someone's feelings. The fact of the matter is that we need to look at these issues.
I wanted to - I mean I agree with the two experts there, but one of the things I know that they are familiar with some of the work of people like Peggy Macintosh out of the University of Mass.(ph), Dr. Evan Nichols(ph) who was here in Washington and then Harvard. And I mean, there's such a thing as white privilege in this country. There's also such a thing as if you're not working on these issues to get rid -
LEMON: Ronald, stand by (INAUDIBLE) working on those issues because that's really sort of at the bottom of this. I'll talk to Al. You want to tag that - I know you want to talk about privilege as well. Go for it. He says if you don't address white privilege then you're not really addressing the issue at all.
VIVIAN: Exactly. And quite often that gets overlooked. The reason why President Obama has had to dial back is because of the feeling of well, it has to be an issue that's talked about, but if he says it, if he brings it up, there's a problem with him bringing the issue up. That's why it was important that somebody asked him the question, and quite honestly, in the black community, everybody said, yes, I'm so glad he actually addressed the issue. He cannot bring it up because he's looked at as if, oh there you go, see what happens when you let him get in office, look what he does.
LEMON: Look what happens when a black man gets in office. He does that. So let's say it -
VIVIAN: He uses it as a teachable moment.
LEMON: Right.
VIVIAN: To teach.
LEMON: OK. We've got to run. But Buck, I want to say this. White privilege, you have this whole thing on white privilege today that I find interesting. You said, it's (INAUDIBLE) just happens to be white. It's the same thing with people who have money.
DAVIS: Right. You're not aware of your privilege because you have. Talk to us about that.
LEMON: Well, I think the white privilege has been one of the largest source of frustration for me over the last decade of doing this work is that white people simply denying that there is no issue. And then you have Barack Obama get into the presidency, in office and we go, look, we've got a black fellow here. There is no racism, there is no barrier to these folks.
VIVIAN: Right.
DAVIS: You can rise up and you can achieve what he's achieved. The fact of the matter is that - while opportunity exists across America, opportunity does not exist in the same form and fashion for everybody. People of color, experience barriers that white people don't experience. Rich people don't have the same experiences that people of different socio-economic classes.
LEMON: Right.
VIVIAN: Privilege is a concept that I think should be on the radar screen of all Americans.
LEMON: Buck, we've got to run. Al, Ronald, and of course James, thank you all. We could have this conversation, you know, all day long. Thank you. I'm sorry everybody didn't get in. We'll try to have it again at 10:00 this evening. A lot of these folks is going to join us. So make sure you join us at 10:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. So I want to say this is a sad note. We want to say good-bye to a literary pioneer, a favorite for millions of women. That will happen next in the NEWSROOM. Thank you, guys.
DAVIS: Thank you, very much.
LEMON: I really appreciate it.
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LEMON: All right. We have been talking about diversity a lot here on CNN. Really, media, all media. But I want to tell you that CNN's special series "Black in America 2" is all about solutions, people who have committed their lives to making a difference in someone else's life. And you never know, you could be inspiring the next star, someone like D.L. Hughley.
My colleague, Soledad O'Brien, talked to Hughley and his mentor during the BIAs or as we've calling our "Black in America's" pre-show. It was a very emotional reunion. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANG BOSTON, D.L. HUGHLEY'S 5TH GRADE TEACHER: You know, I've been teaching for 38 years, and I have not had any award at all but I'm just telling you right over here knowing that I did something positive to create this gentleman right here, this wonderful person, I'll take that over any award they can give me.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN HOST: You're crying. You are crying. How come he affects you? You know, you joined a gang. You were not - you dropped out. You ended up getting your GED.
D.L. HUGHLEY, COMEDIAN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Why is what he's saying upsetting you so much?
HUGHLEY: Because I was this close to never making it.
O'BRIEN: You thinking -
HUGHLEY: Never being, nothing. So when I see people, when I see people who don't believe they can do it, just one person can say one thing that nobody believes in me, ever, and to have a dude say, you can be what you want, I remember we had a fair, and I wanted to win my mother an apple. I won the apple and got it to my mother. She bit the apple and she said this apple's rotten just like you are and I laugh and I told him that story and he said you're not rotten. You're going to be something. I'll never forget that. I hope he's as proud of me as I am of him.
BOSTON: You know, the funny thing is I knew he was going to be something. You know his family -
O'BRIEN: You knew it. BOSTON: I knew it because his family, you know, they're very bright kids and the parents were very hands-on. And they were very concerned. And but I didn't ever think he was going to be a comedian or anything like that. He was just too quiet. But you know, it's funny when you find your niche. You know, you're not going to find it at 10 years old.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Wow. That was a very moving moment. D.L., wow. D.L., I like that. Usually he makes people laugh but he's crying. If you missed even a minute of our "Black in America 2" special, you can see it again in its entirety.
Soledad O'Brien hosts "Black in America 2" coming up at the top of the hour in just about five minutes here.
The literary world has lost a best-selling author who pioneered his own genre of fiction. E. Lynn Harris died Thursday night on a business trip to Los Angeles. No word on the cause of death. Harris will be remembered for novels that introduced millions of readers to the life of affluent black gay men. His characters were often masculine, complex and sometimes tormented while living double lives. His novels enjoyed a huge following among black women and his book signings were often standing room only.
Harris eventually became one of the nation's most popular writers with four million books in print. E. Lynn Harris dead at the age of 54.
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LEMON: All right. I'm just going through some of your comments here. So bear with me because wow. The response has been crazy. I want to say thank you to the person, someone said, oh here it is, I don't have time. Journal project says Don, you're the only anchor I've seen acknowledge E. Lynn Harris passing. Thanks for remembering a great writer. I can't tell you how many e-mails I got about that from people wanting me to say something about E. Lynn Harris. Because they hadn't seen anything about him.
Also, let's see I want to go to my twitter page. There were go, Brother Grimace says it was always about difference in status and race. Law enforcement is notorious for making up mind early. Joy Fulkira says I can't help it but be moved by the honesty and reasonableness of the gentlemen's conversation. Bravo. Need more of the same. Thanks a lot for your program, African prospect says.
Drier Buzz says more at 10:00 or repeat at 10:00 please. And then here's what joyfulcure (ph) says, I love that white man. Where does he come from that he understands? The actualfact says how does Sergeant Crowley teach racial profiling when twice confused as to Professor Gates response and actions? Culture disconnect. And Chocolate lover19 says love the in-depth discussion but there is never enough time for all your panelists. You are exactly right. There's never enough time. We are out of time. So log on to twitter, Facebook, I'll read your comments, MySpace, or i-report.com. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. See you back here 10:00 p.m. Eastern, our conversation continues about race and diversity.
"Black in America 2" right now.
