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What Will Health Care Reform Do for Consumers?; Security Scare at LaGuardia Airport; Three U.S. Troops Killed in Afghanistan

Aired August 01, 2009 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, top of the hour, now. 3:00 (SIC), here's some of the stories we're working on in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Passengers are back on their way at New York's LaGuardia Airport after a security scare disrupted thousands of flights. Police evacuate the airport's central terminal for several hours after officials spotted a device inside a man's bag that resembled a bomb. Police later determined are it was a hoax and they arrested the man and charged him.

Focusing on health care, the president says reform is closer than ever. Yesterday, a key House committee approved a sweeping overhaul plan. Republicans criticized what they call a costly and dangerous experiment. We'll be devoting our next hour to this debate. What's in it for you?

And three U.S. troops have been killed in southern Afghanistan's Kandahar Province. Road side bombs hit their patrol. Last month it was the deadliest for coalition forces in Afghanistan since the war began.

All right, you've been hearing about it all week long: Health care reform. But with all the talk, what's really in it for you? This week, the president hit the road making his case in Virginia and North Carolina and next week, Indiana. The message, the same, he's trying to offer reassurance just like he tried to do in Raleigh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Nobody it talking about some government takeover of health care. I'm tired of hearing that. I have been as clear as I can be. Under the reform I propose, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. These folks need to stop scaring everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, here's just a sample of what the White House wants to do. I know the print is very fine, but follow along with me. No discrimination for pre-existing conditions. No high you've pocket costs. No annual or lifetime caps on coverage. And if you get seriously ill, your coverage cannot be dropped. At least that's what the White House wants.

So, how does the country feel about how the president is handling health care reform? This topic, well, it's split. If you look at the numbers, 43 percent approve, 45 percent disapprove.

All right, David Gergen joins me now to talk about the politics of the health care debate. And as you look at the numbers which seem split across the country about how people like the way the president is handling health care, well the numbers are pretty dismal for this popularity. Just as he started talking about health care, it seems that his popularity points dropped about seven points just over a two- month period. So is the president tackling this the wrong way?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you have to give him points for trying very hard. We've had presidents going the way back to Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman who tried very hard to reform health care and no one has succeeded. Barack Obama so far has come closer than any president has at this point. Here's the issue. Most Americans agree that the current system unsustainable. It costs way too much for what we get.

Most Americans would like the insurance companies to no longer say to them, if you have a pre-existing condition, you can't get insurance. Too many Americans feel locked in jobs, they can't move. There are different rates charge in terms of whether you're a woman or whether you're old or infirm and all the other things. So all of those are positive. But what they fear is that this plan is inevitably going to because it's led by Democrats, it's not going to be something which is maintained in a private system but it's going to be the government taking over and more and more and the government in order to pay fro it will start rationing and the government will start pushing people into systems they don't like.

WHITFIELD: So am I hearing you say that overall, it seems as though Americans embrace the idea of something's got to give. They've got 46 million Americans who are uninsured the president thinking about these Americans may have the right idea but perhaps what's different is unlike other presidents who have tried to push through some sort of health reform, he has instead of crafting the legislation, he is asking Congress to do that. And that's where we've got this fighting now because you've got Republicans and even among Democrats, they are split on exactly what to agree on.

GERGEN: Well, President Obama and his team took a lesson out of the Clinton experience with the failed health care effort as you'll recall and in that situation, at the request of Congress, the White House wrote the legislation and it was very much, you know, remember Hillary Clinton and I (inaudible) headed up the special task force and that came up with a bill that was about 1300 pages long. Many people, threw up (inaudible) they couldn't understand it because it was so complex.

So this time around, this White House decided well, we'll let Congress write it and that has many pluses it, it has gotten through the committee system, something that President Clinton was not able do very well. But it also produced this sort of chaotic scene. Many Americans look at this and say Mr. President, I know that the current system doesn't work but I have no idea what you're trying to anymore. It's so complex and I'm just worried that at the end of the day, not only people in Congress aren't going to understand and we're not going to understand it and we're going to wind up with the short end of the stick. That's why you see the fear going out.

WHITFIELD: And you know, because you worked in the Clinton White House, so you know exactly what might be taking place this weekend. The president at Camp David. He's also got a number of aides meeting at the Blair House and have been for quite some time trying to figure out how do we tackle this? They have to take advantage of this month now. The Senate will be in recess beginning August 7th. Congress already in recess. The White House now has to take advantage of this time, right. How might they go about doing this to get the White House message out so that people can feel like they're getting some clarity on what this plan is?

GERGEN: Well, what the White House knows full well is that August can be a very cruel month for presidents. Because when members of Congress go home, they can often get an earful from constituents and this case, the Republicans and the a gainers, very many special interests are not happy with the direction this is now taking, the health care bill is now taking are going to be out in full force, with the conservative radio talk show hosts, you know, drumming up all the problems that they see and creating the kind of sense of anxiety if not fear.

Until the White House has to lead a very concerted effort to help persuade people why it's moving in the right direction. It's handicap is it not only is this complex but it does not have a coherent plan to take to the country and sell it. That's problem the president had with this press conference the other night. You know, not this past week but the week before. When he drew a small audience, the smallest audience of all of his press conferences and clearly he was having a hard time explaining this. This is complex stuff.

WHITFIELD: Are you worried about the recovery time then, the recovery time for the White House?

GERGEN: I think - well, you know, I think that the White House is going to have to very focused, this is going to be an important month because let's be very clear about this. The House is moving toward a vote and we've never had in 60 years on this issue, we've never had a chamber of Congress actually pass a comprehensive health care reform bill. The House is probably going to do that in September. So the president has made progress. He's got the legislature generally moving in the right direction, of course with a lot of tension. But it could get washed away, that progress could get washed away, if those public opinion polls you have just showed, they have been moving south for the president. If they continue to move south, it could kill health care.

WHITFIELD: David Gergen, thanks so much. Senior political analyst for CNN.

GERGEN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Appreciate your time, joining us from Boston.

All right. Let's talk a bit more about where the House and Senate might be leaving us in the month of August. That's where Josh Levs steps in. So Josh, give us a better idea. We know this one committee, the energy and commerce committee of the house, they voted for the bill but then it's going to be left up to the rest the house but the Senate is adjourning without a vote like that.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm going to do it in the order you were just talking about.

WHITFIELD: OK.

LEVS: Let's do that. We're going to start off talking about the House right here. So this is the basic idea. I want everyone to understand what has happened and what has not happened because as you know, our government can be incredibly complicated. I was talking to one of out producers who said the founding fathers wanted it to be hard to make big things happen. They got their wish.

Take a look at this. This is what's happening in the House right now, you have three separate committees. All of them needs to come up with their own versions of a health care bill. You've got a bill from this committee, this committee and this committee. Now, Fred, they have to come together and merge into one bill and that needs to go before the House. And we now know for a fact that will happen after the recess. But that's just the House. Let's go over to the Senate over here. Now, take a look -

Let's get rid of this one. How do you do it this again? Oh yes, you move that over there and - I got it. I love this board. All right, so the health care bill, so we're looking here at the House. But I want to go over here now to the Senate because this gets a little bit more complicated. You've been talking about this bipartisan group of six. That's them right here. Let's talk about the Senate. So you've got this committee called the health committee that did manage to come up with the health care bill. That's one committee. But now we're on this one. The finance committee, and Fred, right now, this is a sticking point in the Senate. This bipartisan group of six senators needs to come up with a bill, right? But when they come up with their bill it needs to go before the committee and then you have to merge this and this in order to get one bill before the Senate, right?

WHITFIELD: Yes, the clock is ticking.

LEVS: So let's stop and look at that you've got all these committees in the House. You got these committees in the Senate, then it has to go before the whole House and whole Senate. And then if the house passes it, right, and the Senate passes, then they have to get together and find a way to merge those. Which is why I'm going to show you my favorite point right here from our own Ed Henry. Look at this quote, it's like covering Jell-o.

Ed Henry says it has no form, it keeps on moving. When you are taking a look at where the health care is, he says right now, it's like covering Jell-o because it has no form at any moment because it keeps changing as you keep moving it kind of down the table through all these different committees. So people can be hopeful that something will happen. WHITFIELD: Yes.

LEVS: We have all these steps to go through before we get there. And I love Ed.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I love that, too.

And we know the president wanted something by August. OK, it's not going to happen. Now, we're talking about the earliest, the House vote, September.

LEVS: That's right.

WHITFIELD: Once you go through your formula, you know, with the Senate, I don't know, maybe a Christmas present if the president is lucky.

LEVS: I mean, this is the idea you have. All the committees I was talking about here, all the committees I was talking about here, in every case, you have to get every one to come together, until then you pretty much got Jell-o.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right. Very good. I don't know if that's good, actually. Jell-o, that's scary.

LEVS: I don't know but it tastes good.

WHITFIELD: As it pertains to legislation. All right. Well, we're going to sit on it. We've got much more straight ahead, Josh. I know you're also fielding lots of questions coming from people sending us so many interesting thoughts about health care reform, covering America. We're also going to be joined right after the break by two law makers, two members of Congress, we're going find out from them what about this Jell-o?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Covering America what's in it for you? We're devoting this entire hour to health care reform. We already know that the House committee has voted on a bill before this August recess and the Senate will be adjourning in about a week with no vote as far as we know. So we are joined right now by two lawmakers who can give us an idea of what should this reform package actually look like in the end.

Georgia representative Republican Phil Gingrey is with us. He's also a physician. He's joining us. And also New York congressman Eliot Engel is joining us as well. So, you were actually, Mr. Engle, on this energy and commerce committee, right? Did you vote in favor of this bill or not?

REP. ELIOT ENGEL, (D), NEW YORK: Yes, I am on the committee and I voted in favor of the bill and I think the American people need know that health care reform is on the way and it's going to be good for all segments of the American public. WHITFIELD: OK. So if you could, Congressman Engel, in about 45 seconds give me your best sell about the kind of health reform package that you're hoping Congress will pass that uninsured Americans will be able to enjoy.

ENGEL: Well, first of all, as we know, there are 47 million Americans who are uninsured and that continues to grow. Of those 47 million Americans, 80 percent of them are working people and their families so it's a national scandal that we have that many people uninsured. Our plan would insure virtually everyone in the country. It would say that doctors and hospitals couldn't reject you because of pre-existing conditions and it will also move health care into the 21st century. The current situation with health care is unsustainable. The costs for health care have been growing much higher than everything else.

And so we cannot just sit back and do nothing. There are lots of people with lots of different ideas. As pointed out, there are three committees and those bills will all have to be merged but I am confident that with President Obama leading the way, the American people will have a rehaul of health care and as the president had said, if you like your current doctor and if you you're your health care, you can keep it, we just want to make sure that the 47 million Americans doesn't continue to grow and grow and that people are pushed out of the health care system.

WHITFIELD: OK. And Republican Congressman Gingrey also with us. I want to give you an opportunity, Congressman Gingrey, to give us in about 45 seconds what are you hoping a health care reform package would look for the 46 roughly 47 million uninsured Americans?

REP. PHIL GINGREY (R), GEORGIA: Well when you look at the 47 million, you really have to peel back the layers of that onion, in fact, 10 million of them are people who are eligible already for a safety net program such as Medicaid or a CHIP program. They just don't know it. We need an ombudsman to let them know that. 18 million of the uninsured people are at least $50,000 a year, some $75,000 a year. They have just decided they don't want to be forced to purchase health insurance and so there are maybe 10 or 15 million that truly through no fault of their own, maybe pre-existing conditions don't have health insurance. We want to make sure that they get that. We want insurance reform.

The Republicans side of the aisle definitely wants that and we can effect that by equalizing the tax treatment, as an example, let them get the same discounted health insurance that people get who are employees of a large company. And we can create these state-wide in every state of the nation. 50 states have a high-risk pools where the federal government and the states are willing to put in money and supplement so that these people can afford health insurance and nobody is denied because of pre-existing condition. I think the insurance companies has already essentially agreed to do that.

WHITFIELD: Well, it sounds like some of the things you just spelled out are some of the very things that the White House said that it wants. That no one would be, who has pre-existing situations, would be denied and Congressman, you also mention though, however, you know, a lot of people say they don't want to be forced to purchase health care. But talk to me a little bit more about that because it's a bit confusing when you've got a public health care plan that might be extended to uninsured Americans. What do we mean by it would be force and people wouldn't like the idea of being covered?

GINGREY: Of course, great question. But let's get into the part about if you like what you've got, you can keep it, the pledge from the president. Certainly that's not true for the 10 million or 11 million who currently like Medicare advantage under the Medicare program, where things are covered like hearing aids and dental care and people have wellness opportunities, callbacks from a nurse practitioner that you don't get under traditional fee for service Medicare. That program is going to be cut by $175 billion. So those 10 million people certainly are not going to get to keep what they like.

WHITFIELD: Well, Congressman Engel, I'm going to let you respond to that quickly because this is the kind of stuff that starts to confuse people when they're either insured or uninsured and they want to know exactly what's at stake. I'll give you about 10 seconds to respond to that comment.

ENGEL: Well, if anybody is going to have cutbacks in their insurance, we will make sure that these things are added to. So nobody is really going to suffer. The question is do we just sit and do nothing as my Republican friend seems to want to do or trust the insurance companies as my Republican friend seem to want to do.

WHITFIELD: OK.

ENGEL: Or do we say that we need to get involved now because before we turn around, we'll have 60 and 70 million Americans uninsured and people will be afraid of losing their jobs and losing their insurance. The system is about to breakdown and we need to fix it.

WHITFIELD: All right. I got some very specific questions about to come your way, congressman from Jaquitta Williams, who is here in Atlanta. She is currently unemployed. She has a pre-existing situation. She's a breast cancer survivor. Hooray on that. And at the same time, you are covered by Cobra, it's very expensive.

JAQUITTA WILLIAMS, CANCER SURVIVOR: It is.

WHITFIELD: And Laura Walker is also with us, she recently lost her job. She's unemployed. She does not have insurance. And she is trying to be very careful about everything and that means giving up the horse riding which she loves to do, because it's a dangerous sport and being uninsured she doesn't want any catastrophic care that have to kick in.

So ladies, I'm going to allow you to talk to the congressmen here. Jaquitta, you first, to express your concerns about health care reform. What do you want to see in a package? What confuses you about what we're hearing from lawmakers? WILLIAMS: Bottom line for me, I support the president and his health care reform. I do know that something needs to happen. When I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I had insurance but I can also tell you that just because I worked and had insurance it didn't cover everything. There were medications that I was still responsible for. There were surgeries I still had to be responsible for. So I think for me and for people who are like me, whatever this new plan is, is there such a thing as the kind of insurance that covers everything where you're not responsible for paying thousands of dollars when you already feel like you're covered? So either one of you.

WHITFIELD: Congressman Gingrey earlier said - you talked about not being denied insurance when you have a pre-existing condition, perhaps you can respond to Jaquitta.

GINGREY: Miss Williams, absolutely. In your situation, of course, after that Cobra runs out in 18 months, under current are situation, it might be awfully hard for you to get any kind of health insurance at all.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

GINGREY: The coverage that you can afford if they would even let you have any coverage. Well, under my plan, under the Republican plan, the insurance companies would absolutely have to give you a policy that was virtually standard rate, maybe 10 percent more, that you could get that would cover those things, would cover those cancer drugs that you so desperately need and that's part of insurance reform that we would insist on. And I think the insurance companies would be willing to do that.

The reason so many young people don't sign up for health insurance is because if they've been in a program or a company for 25 years and all of a sudden, they develop breast cancer or Alzheimer's disease or some chronic illness and they change jobs, then they can't change their insurance policy. They can't get coverage. They should absolutely be able to get credible coverage because the insurance companies have done quite well on them over many years. So this is again reform of the insurance company. I think the insurance company is ready to do that.

We can do that without turning everything over lock, stock and barrel to the federal government. You know, in Great Britain, the five-year survival rate for breast cancer is much less than it is in this country and that's because they deny some of these best cancer drug therapies. You don't want to be in that situation.

WHITFIELD: All right. Congressman, let me interrupt you there. We're going to take a short break because I know, Congressman Engel, you took would want to be able to say you got a plan that would mean no turning down people with pre-existing conditions. So where do we find common ground here? Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back, covering America, what's in it for you. We're going to continue our conversation, particularly as it pertains to when you have a pre-existing condition, why wouldn't the Republicans and Democrats agree that if you're going to have healthcare reform, everyone should be covered even if you have a pre- existing condition?

So Jaquitta Williams here talking about her situation. She's a breast cancer survivor. She had a question for Congressman Gingrey, and now the question goes to Congressman Eliot Engel who is joining us from New York. So what would the Democrats have to say about a promise to make sure that Jaquitta would still be covered?

ENGEL: Well, Miss Williams, your case is precisely what President Obama and the Democrats want to do. And why we want to change health care. We believe very strongly that in any bill that comes out, no one will be denied any kind of help because of a pre- existing condition. Right now, insurance companies are denying people like crazy. The Republicans seem to think that you can sort of leave the insurance company to their own and somehow or other they're going to come up with something good.

We have seen that, unless there is pressure, unless the government changes the way health care is done in this country, the insurance companies will never respond. So our bill will ensure that no one can be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

Our bill will absolutely be that if someone losses their health care coverage or losses job they should be able to get similar coverage or keep their coverage. That's precisely why we need health care reform in this country and for to you have to pay all these bills out of pocket when you thought you had good insurance that covered you, is a national disgrace. It's a national scandal. So I can assure you that any bill that comes out of the Democratic House and Senate and signed by President Obama will take care of people just like you.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's exactly what I want to hear.

ENGEL: Well, you'll hear it and thank you for having the courage to say what you're saying because we have heard this from thousands and thousands of people who are just like you and that's why the insurance companies and health coverage is broken in this country and we need to fix it.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And congressman, a good number of the 46 million, 47 million uninsured Americans are just like Laura Walker, who is also with us. She lost her job which means she lost her insurance. She is not covered at all right now. So Laura, your question, perhaps to Congressman Gingrey first?

LAURA WALKER, CURRENTLY UNEMPLOYED: Well, I just talked to a friend of mine today who actually was diagnosed a year ago with cancer. She lost her job right along with me. She informed me today her Cobra didn't even pick her up because it was considered a pre- existing condition.

I think my biggest question of all to both of you and to the American government is if all these people have been putting their money into insurance companies and the insurance company takes the money, they invest it, they buy real estate, they do stocks, whatever, and that's supposed to make them money to pay the payments back for the treatment that you're getting, if they can't make it work and the government continues to put all of these regulations and stipulations into developing drugs and to how things are done medically, I don't understand how the government is going to pay for it to make it any better. I -

WHITFIELD: Congressman Gingrey, why don't you respond to that?

GINGREY: Laura, absolutely and I said on the previous clip that a situation like yours, you've been paying to that system all along and certainly you have made money for the insurance company because possibly you had very few claims, maybe annual physicals and that sort of thing, and then all of a sudden, you come down with some thing heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer and you want to change jobs or you lose your job through no fault of your own, that company, that insurance company that was covering you all those years should be obligated because you've got credible coverage. They should be obligated to continue to cover you at near standard rates. And that's what Republican Party will insist on.

WHITFIELD: Well, I feel like both of you, congressman, are actually saying the same thing.

GINGREY: We are. To some extent, we are.

WHITFIELD: Why isn't it on the Hill that we're hearing that there's such dissension, and we keep hearing an injection of the Democrats believing this and the Republicans believing this. You both sound like you're saying the same thing so what's the problem?

GINGREY: Well, we very much are saying the same thing, I'm sure Eliot would agree me because he's my good friend, we could get together. We could have gotten together on the House side like the senate finance committee is working in a bipartisan way. But we have not worked in a bipartisan way, unfortunately -

WHITFIELD: So Congressman Engel, give me a timeline then? What -

GINGREY: I'm a physician, I can add to this.

WHITFIELD: If it sounds like there's there is a lot of harmony here, what's the time line? What can Americans expect?

ENGEL: Well, I would hope by the end of the year, we would have a health care bill ready to be passed and signed by the president. Phil is a good man. We work well together, but unfortunately his party when it comes to health care has been the party of no. They didn't like Medicare and Medicaid back in the 1960s and they don't believe that the government should play any role in health care.

We know that before Medicare and Medicaid came through, 80 percent or 75 percent of American seniors were living in poverty and now with Medicare and Medicaid, that's all been turned around. So we don't think that we should be afraid of the government getting involved. We think that by the government getting involved it will force the insurance companies to keep their premiums down and to provide health care. The lady who lost her health coverage, that's the kind of person we want to help.

WHITFIELD: Laura.

ENGEL: If you lose your job or if you change jobs, if you're a little bit older and you're fearful you're going to be fired and won't be able to find another job. We want to make sure that you will continue to keep your health care coverage.

WHITFIELD: What's interesting too here, congressman, is we are talking as if everybody does want this kind of government plan to be passed, period, but we're also hearing from people and Josh has been hearing from them via Facebook and blog and on my Facebook page as well that not every American actually wants to see these kinds of government intervention. Josh, if you can join the conversation real quick before we take a break. What is it that people are expressing when they say I don't know if I like the Democrats plan, I don't think I like the Republican's plan.

LEVS: You know, you can tell me (inaudible) and we do some after the break, but we're definitely hearing from a lot of people who are making those exact same point, Fred. And you know, it's really a lot of those general things. In fact, well go to the board for a second, I'll show you some examples. And you guys can just tell, we want to get some answer now? OK. So after the break, we're going to pose some of these exact kinds of questions that Fred is talking about to our congressmen right here and we'll have you answer them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Covering America, what's in it for you? Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has been doing a great job answering a lot of your questions about what is this public health care plan actually mean if indeed -

WHITFIELD: "Covering America: What's in it for You?" Our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, has been doing a great job answering a lot of your questions about, What does this public health care plan actually mean if, indeed, it's passed by both houses on the Hill? I asked her earlier about a question that many of you have been asking. Is this socialized medicine with the government getting involved?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: So many questions coming from you, the viewer, on, What does this all mean? So we've asked our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, to answer some of them. All right, Dave put it this way. He says, "Having health care insurance is like wearing a helmet. It's a good idea and it's an advisable course of action, but having it mandated is taking away a choice and thereby taking away my freedom to make the choice." So is it true? Is his choice being limited?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are some plans for health care reform where every American will be mandated to have health care insurance. So what I hear Dave saying is, Hey, I want to make the choice not to have insurance. That's my choice as an American.

Well, it might not be his choice for much longer. And so if he's asking it's -- a mandate to have insurance will limit my options, I guess I would say yes, it would. You can't go without health insurance if there's a mandate to have health insurance.

But a lot of people would say that Dave is sort of selfish not to have health insurance because, God forbid, if Dave gets into a car accident or gets cancer, guess who's going to pay to have him treated? You and me.

WHITFIELD: So maybe his choice is he won't call to make a preventive care type of appointment with a doctor...

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Still no good.

COHEN: Right. But a lot of people would say we shouldn't let people have that choice. You should have health insurance because when you don't...

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: ... and we all have to pay.

WHITFIELD: All right, Maria has a question that we've heard over and over again. She says, "Is this socialized medicine?"

COHEN: Well, President Obama has answered that over and over again, so let's take a listen to what he has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Opponents of health reform warn that this is all some big plot for socialized medicine or government-run health care, with long lines and rationed care. That's not true, either. The reason this has been controversial is -- you know, a lot of people have heard this phrase "socialized medicine" and they say, We don't want government-run health care. We don't want a Canadian-style plan. Nobody's talking about that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, he says it is not socialized medicine. How do we know the difference?

COHEN: Well, when people think of socialized medicine, usually, they think of medicine -- a medical system where there's one payer, where the government is the single payer and everyone's insured by the government. That is not what this is at all. It would be a government option. There would be an option to get into a plan that's sort of like Medicare for everyone. You could think of it that way. But you wouldn't have to have that plan.

Now having said that, there are some Republicans and some Democrats who say that they fear that the government plan will become, over time, the only plan, that private insurers won't be able to compete with it. And so...

WHITFIELD: And then a lot of employers will say, Hey, it's cheaper for me to go ahead and allow my employee...

COHEN: Right.

WHITFIELD: ... to go for the public care. Why should I continue paying for private insurance for them?

COHEN: Right. That's the concern that some people have, is that employers, right, will drop their private plans and send all their employees to the government plan.

WHITFIELD: How does that concern get eliminated?

COHEN: Well, the people who wrote the bills have tried various ways to try to make sure that isn't going to happen. However, there are some concerns that no matter how you write it, that just the way economics are going to work, employers are going to want to go with that public plan. And the way they paint it is that down the road, years down the road, we're going to end up with only the government as the only people insuring people.

But really, that's -- that's really kind of looking into a crystal ball. There's nothing about these bills that says we're going to a single payer system. Would it create a situation where we could end up there years down the road? I mean, in some ways, who knows? Nobody can predict the future. But there's nothing about these bills that sets up a single payer system on purpose.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And Elizabeth Cohen is going to be back with us to talk, What about immigrants? Who takes care of them?

All right, our Josh Levs has been taking a lot of questions from you. We've got one question going to our New York congressman, Eliot -- I'm sorry -- Eliot Engel, who had got to run, but he's got time for this one question.

LEVS: Well (INAUDIBLE) all right, well, Congressman, thanks for sticking around for this. We got a question via our iReport system that's about President Obama. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN ABRAMSON, CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA: He routinely, when he was a candidate, routinely blasted the federal government for being inefficient. Yet here he thinks the federal government can provide an option that is going to maintain competition in the health insurance industry. Give me one example of where the federal government has ever operated more efficiently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEVS: Let me pass that on to you. You know, even if you're not talking socialized medicine, Congressman, a lot of people are saying, Why trust the government to create a system that's going to less bureaucratic and more efficient than what we've got now? What do you say?

ENGEL: Well, what we have now are essentially insurance companies competing with themselves, so they have no incentive to keep the premiums down. They keep having the premiums rise. If the government, if the secretary, as is in this bill, can negotiate with the insurance companies lower costs so that consumers can pay less, it will force the insurance companies to keep their premiums lower to compete with the federal option.

And that's all we're saying. We're not talking about socialized medicine or a takeover of medicine. We are saying that the insurance companies have shown, in all the problems that I've talked about, where we have people being denied insurance because of preexisting conditions, where we have people losing their jobs and never being able to get back their insurance, where we have 47 million American, 80 percent are working families, denied health care -- the government will continue to pressure, under the new plan, the insurance companies to keep the premiums down, make sure that everyone covered and no one's denied insurance because of a preexisting condition.

LEVS: Well, Congressman, I appreciate your response to that. I know you need to go, and I appreciate that. And while we have Congressman Gingrey, as well, I want to get to your side, as well, because we're also hearing a lot from the other side.

We're going to zoom in on the board for a second and we're going to take a look at what people have been writing us here about -- this is on our CNN NEWSROOM blog, CNN.com/fredericka. This is from Anthony, who says that he's hearing all these Republicans talk about cost and debt. And he says, You know what? The Iraq war, which he feels we didn't need to be there, cost several billion dollars, he's saying, in that time period, beyond where health care would be. And he goes on to say, Are Republicans saying that, basically, the cost of a war somewhere else is more important than taking care of the sick at home? Your response to that, Congressman Gingrey? GINGREY: ... that in regard to this health plan that he's promoting, failure is not an option, but when he was on the campaign trail, he said that failure was an option in Iraq.

But let me get back to what Congressman Engel was saying...

(CROSSTALK)

GINGREY: Today, you know, he says, We're not talking about a single payer system. But anybody watching on C-Span or CNN or anybody present in the Energy and Commerce hearing room when we were marking up the bill last night for 12 hours -- Congressman Engel himself, his colleague, Anthony Weiner from New York, President Obama's colleague from Chicago, Jan Schakowski, they all submitted amendments calling for a single payer U.K./Canadian type system.

LEVS: Well...

GINGREY: So make no mistake about it, this is a two-step process...

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Congressman Engel had to leave so he's unable to actually respond to that. He had to leave early. But we'll let you continue your comment, and then we're going to take a short break and talk a little bit about some of the concerns and questions that Jaquitta and Laura Walker also have for you, Congressman, and for others.

LEVS: (INAUDIBLE) really quickly. Do we have another minute to set this up? Can we go? OK. Very sorry. (INAUDIBLE) the cues here. Yes, I do want to say, she's right, we don't have the other side here. Toward the end of this hour, we're going to be showing you several reality-checking Web sites where you can get the absolute latest on what really has and has not happened.

But before we go do break, Congressman Gingrey, I just want to make sure you've answered Anthony's question there. He is saying, Look, I've heard all these Republicans say, We're really concerned about the cost of health care. I didn't hear them say that when it came to the cost of the Iraq war. What is your direct response to that?

GINGREY: Well, the war was a very costly thing, and it still is. And we're spending a lot of money now in Afghanistan, and I commend the president for the surge in Afghanistan. I think the president -- you know, when you're campaigning and you say that, you know, I'm going to reform CAFTA, and then you -- with a nod and a wink, you say to the Canadians, No, I didn't really mean that, that's just campaign talk -- when you get under the awesome responsibility of the White House, especially as commander-in-chief, sometimes then reality sinks in.

I think he's doing a good job in conducting the war in Afghanistan, but it is very, very costly, no question about it. And reforming the health care system in the manner that the Democrats want do it is way too costly, $1.5 trillion. We've got a $1.8 trillion deficit for the year 2009, and this bill beyond that, beyond the 10- year window, it just gets more and more expensive. And we currently have an unfunded mandate on Medicare of $37 trillion over the next 50 years!

WHITFIELD: And so bottom line, Congressman Gingrey, Republicans, Democrats working on the Hill all want to come about some sort of health care reform. The difficulty is, How do we actually get there? Are you seeing that perhaps by Christmas, perhaps by mid-fall, that perhaps...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Soon!

WHITFIELD: That's Jaquitta here saying she wants something soon...

GINGREY: Jaquitta, yes...

WHITFIELD: ... that soon Americans can expect something.

GINGREY: Well, you know, you don't -- I don't believe in that old adage, Do something even if it's wrong, and I'm glad that we have not -- (INAUDIBLE) passed in the committees in the House and one committee in the Senate, but on neither floor of either chamber. So we've got six weeks to talk to our constituents, to make sure that they understand it and make sure that not just committee members but all members, all 535 members of Congress have read these bills and understand, so that when we do come back in September, we come together, maybe we rewrite this thing in a bipartisan way and we do have a market delivery reform, insurance reform, equalize the tax treatments...

WHITFIELD: All right...

GINGREY: ... make sure that we cover the uninsured. I hope we do get something done before the end of the year.

WHITFIELD: Congressman Phil Gingrey, thanks so much. And thanks again to Congressman Eliot Engel, who had to leave a little bit earlier.

Meantime, while, Congressman, you talked to me about people -- congress people are going to be talking a lot more about health care reform. Guess what? You at home, you're going to be seeing a whole lot of ads, particularly throughout the month of August to help you make a decision.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Earlier in the week, President Obama was in Raleigh, North Carolina. He said health care reform isn't about him, it's about you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: If you've got health insurance, then the reform are we're proposing will also help you because it will provide you more stability and more security because the truth is, we have a system today that works well for the insurance industry but it doesn't always work well for you.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: So what we need and what we will have when we pass these reforms are health insurance consumer protections to make sure that those who have insurance are treated fairly and insurance companies are held accountable.

Let me specific. We will stop insurance companies from denying you coverage because of your medical history.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: I've told this story before. I'll never forget watching my own mother as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition so they could wiggle out of paying for her coverage.

How many of you have worried about the same thing? A lot of people have gone through this. Many of you have been denied insurance or heard someone was denied insurance because they had a preexisting condition. That will no longer be allowed with reform.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: We won't allow that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, among those covered under a government plan might be illegal immigrants. We asked our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Here's another question that we've gotten from a lot of people. Would the new plan provide for illegal immigrants?

COHEN: Right. There's been, apparently, a lot of talk on talk radio and other places that illegal immigrants could join this government-backed insurance. And that's not true. That's not the case. We've talked to a lot of people about this. Illegal immigrants would not be able to get into these programs.

WHITFIELD: Isn't Medicare already covering for some?

COHEN: Medicare technically is not supposed to cover for illegal immigrants, so -- it's not supposed to do that.

WHITFIELD: All right. Very good. All right, senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.

COHEN: Thanks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, all of Congress may be soon be in recess, but all the talk of health care reform -- well, it's just beginning on the airwaves. Here's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could end up with government bureaucrats taking away your choices, getting in between you and your doctor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the Republicans say Congress should slow down? That's because when someone goes slow enough, it's easy to kill it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, much more straight ahead, "Covering America."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chuck Hildreth (ph) lost his arms 28 years ago in an electrical accident. He hadn't used a drill since. Now he can -- and unlatch a door chain and even play Jenga.He can do all these amazing things thanks to the DEKA (INAUDIBLE), a sophisticated prosthesis created by famed Segway inventor Dean Kamen.

It all started when the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, called DARPA, wanted something new for troops who lost an arm on the battlefield.

DEAN KAMEN, INVENTOR: The very first time we met with DARPA and they described, We want an arm that can do this and this and this and this and this, we told them, You're nuts.

TUCHMAN: But he delivered.

KAMEN: Until we started this project, most people would have said this was the state of the art -- basically, a plastic tube with a hook on the end of it. And our goal was to replaced that technology with something that has a full hand with an opposed thumb and all the fingers.

TUCHMAN: The DEKA arm is still in development. The most recent design weighs about the same as a human arm and can lift up to 20 pounds. The wrist and fingers are controlled by electronic monitors worn on the user's shoulder and sensors inside the shoes. Kamen thinks he's only a few years away from delivering the device to veterans and other amputees. And of course, Kamen's most valuable volunteer, Chuck Hildreth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, you can (INAUDIBLE) now.

(LAUGHTER)

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, some final thoughts on "Covering America: What's in it for You?" Our Josh Levs has some great resources where you can try and get some clarity on what really is at issue here.

LEVS: So many claims, right, so little time.

(LAUGHTER)

LEVS: We need to get to the facts, and what I want to do -- I want to show you all a series of Web sites right now where you can go and get the facts. You don't have to write it down because at the end, I'm going to show where I have listed all of them for you on line (INAUDIBLE) Let's go right here. First place to check out is CNN Money. I love what the team is doing. They are consistently updating this special page that focuses specifically on fixing health care. Every blue line is a separate story. Sometimes, you get five or six a day analyzing where the bills stand right then.

A lot of people ask me, What does president Obama actually say? His position is laid out at Healthreform.gov. This is his position. He talks you through the White House position, and you can learn a lot there. The GOP, on the flip side, you can get a lot at GOP.gov. That's where a lot of Republicans stand. And you can read some of the talking points. This is one of the most popular things at GOP.gov, where they're making fun of Democrats. They're calling this the organizational chart of House Democrats' health plan. They're saying it's ridiculous and bureaucracy. Democrats, by the way, kind of struck back with this, saying this is the Republicans' plan -- lots of question marks. I'm showing it to from Talkingpointsmemo.

Two key reality-checking Web sites, Politifacts.com -- great place to go, Politifacts.com. They talk you through all sorts of claims that look at what's going on in the health bills. This, for example, is a chain e-mail going on that says all non-U.S. citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services. They give that a "Pants on fire" rating. Also, you get a lot of truth checking at Factcheck.org.

Now, everything I just showed you, I told you it's in one place -- let's go to the graphic. This is where it is, at CNN.com/newsroom. Take a look at that. There you go. And I also put it on my Facebook and Twitter/joshlevscnn. Go to any of those places right now. It will take you to every link I just showed you. And hold onto it because when you hear these claims, Fred, you know, we want to make everyone's getting the facts (INAUDIBLE)

WHITFIELD: Yes, you want -- you want to make sure you get it right. All right, we're going to hear some last thoughts from two ladies that have joining us this hour. They had a chance to talk to two congressmen, as well, Laura Walker, (INAUDIBLE) Williams.

So Laura, your final thoughts. In 30 seconds or so, did you anything from the congressman in your conversation with him that really helped crystallize whether you're going to be better off while you continue to be unemployed and uninsured?

WALKER: No, I didn't. All I heard was a whole lot of sugar coating and dancing around the questions that we had asked. You know, they still don't get the point. I'm unemployed. I don't have an income other than unemployment. So I don't know how they expect me to pay for any of this insurance that's going to affordable for me. I haven't figured that part out. And I don't -- you know, I'm realistic to the fact that with limited income, you get limited benefits. So I don't expect to have MRIs every time I twist an ankle, you know, if I can't afford to pay for it. I don't know who they expect to pay for this.

WHITFIELD: All right, and Jaquitta, preexisting condition -- you're a breast cancer survivor, but right now, you're on COBRA, very expensive, I remember. It was $600 or $700 for me on COBRA per month. So did you hear anything from the congressman in your conversation that helped you feel a little hopeful about your coverage?

WILLIAMS: Fredricka, I'm going to remain optimistic. I understand how Laura feels, but I'm going to tell you, as a woman who was 36 years old, healthy, and was diagnosed with breast cancer, my life changed forever. So hearing from the senators -- and I know that President Obama has said he has very good health insurance. I think all of us want the same thing. I don't want any person to have something like that happen to them and then to wonder, What in the world am I going to do? I don't have health insurance. Am I going to die?

So I don't know what the situation is. I don't know what the solution is. But bottom line, they need to do something and they need to do something quickly because what's happening now doesn't work.

WHITFIELD: Yes. You clearly both...

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Jaquitta Williams, Laura Walker, thanks so much. And thanks again to Congressman Phil Gingrey and Representative Eliot Engel, as well, both joining us earlier, and Josh Levs, of course, thanks to you, as well, fielding through so many questions and comments from our viewers. We appreciate your input throughout this hour. Thanks so much for joining us. And David Gergen -- he was here with us at the top of the hour, as well.

Much more straight ahead. Don Lemon will be coming up next. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)