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Bill Clinton Visits North Korea; Senate Begins Debate on Sotomayor's Nomination Today; Police Looking for Possible Victims of Child Pornographers in Maryland; Remembering Charles Manson; Personal Income Fell Over One Percent in June; Detroit Public School System Considers Bankruptcy; Debating the True Cost of Healthcare

Aired August 04, 2009 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, CNN foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty has been watching the story very closely, as well. She joins us now from Washington. Jill, what are you getting, what are hearing and what is the latest here?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, from the State Department side, there really is not a lot that is coming out. This really is very, very delicate. And while the president is on the ground, as you heard in that statement by Robert Gibbs, they don't want to say anything that could tip this because it has been a very emotional standoff, as well as, you know, political and military standoff with North Korea on that other subject that seems to be overshadowing everything, which is the nuclear standoff.

COLLINS: Of course.

DOUGHERTY: And so, anything personal? And Elaine was referring to some of those comments recently about Secretary Clinton coming out from North Korea. They don't want to say anything that could be misconstrued or that would derail any of this.

COLLINS: Absolutely. So, let's fast forward a bit, if we could. And again, keeping in mind how clearly sensitive and delicate this is, as you say, if the journalists do go free, what would North Korea get out of it, what does the U.S. get out of it?

DOUGHERTY: Well, North Korea, potentially, could get at least some points for bringing the journalists, for coming to the decision that the United States was hoping that they would free those journalists. You know, score one on that point. Now, the second thing, though, is this mission is not meant to sit down at the negotiating table and start talking about nuclear weapons.

So, the obviously question would be, though, with this opening, if it does happen and bringing those journalists out, could that help on the other side of the equation with the nuclear standoff. Now, for the United States, certainly, they get U.S. citizens out, that is a big plus. The shadow of having those journalists in a sense, which could have been used for any type of purpose out would have been very good for the U.S. but do they get anything, do they get what they really want which is North Korea back at the negotiating table. We don't know that yet.

COLLINS: OK. Very good. Jill Dougherty, let us know if we need to come back to you. We sure do appreciate it.

Meanwhile, we are also keeping a very close eye on Iran where three Americans are now under arrest. This morning Ian confirmed their arrest and accused the west of using their case as propaganda. A newscaster on state television cast doubt on the Americans' claims that they were hiking in Iraq and strayed across the unmarked border. Iran says an investigation is under way.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Nairobi, Kenya, today. Her first stop on a seven-nation African trip. Besides Kenya, Clinton will address trouble spots from Somalia and Zimbabwe through the Democratic Republic of Congo and Nigeria. In Kenya tomorrow she will speak at an economic forum for U.S and sub-Saharan trade. Clinton is expected to discuss the president's commitment to making Africa a priority in U.S. foreign policy.

This hour in Raleigh, North Carolina, seven terrorism suspects are appearing in federal court. Last week, the men were charged with plotting to kidnap, maim and kill people in a foreign country. Federal investigators say some of the men traveled to Israel, Pakistan, among other countries to plot their "violent jihad." They are still looking for an eighth suspect.

The Senate in session. Today debating the nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court. We saw the Senate Judiciary Committee pass it by a 13-6 margin, almost exactly along party lines. Pretty close to the same story with the full Senate. Six Republicans have said they'll vote yet but don't count Senator John McCain among them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Though she attempted to walk back from her long public record of judicial activism during her confirmation hearings, Judge Sotomayor cannot change her record in a 1996 article in the "Suffolk University Law Review," she stated "a given judge or judges may develop a novel approach to a particular specific set of facts or legal framework that pushes the law in a new direction." This is exactly this view that I disagree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The final Senate vote is expected to be held before they go on the recess at the end of the week. That means Judge Sonia Sotomayor could be sworn in as the next Supreme Court justice by Friday.

We want to give you a look at the big board now. Dow Jones industrial average are to the positive side. We've seen it open to the negative by just about nine points or so. So nothing big quite yet but still that average resting above or just below, I should say 9,300. So, we will continue to follow those numbers for you very closely.

Also, following the weather closely as we do here. In fact, am I hearing this right? Reading this right - possibility of tornadoes somewhere, Rob?

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Severe weather for sure and isolated threat for seeing tornadoes that started to already pop up, Heidi, here. Here is it on the radar screen. Kansas City all the way to Cincinnati, Ohio. We do have one severe thunderstorm watch that's in effect here for the next couple of hours in through eastern Illinois and western parts of Indiana.

So, if you're traveling through say Cincinnati, a hub for Delta, for sure. There may be some travel delays there. The heat building across parts of the west, the southwest, Phoenix back through the interior valleys and looking for temperatures to rise to about 110 degrees and it's been the hottest, the hottest July on record in Phoenix and that certainly has caused things there. They haven't gotten the monsoon that they typically get this time of year.

It will be warm in Texas as well. And Oklahoma City, the temperatures that will easily get into the 90s, potentially even warmer than that. There's a live shot from our friends in Tulsa. You are under an excessive heat warning for today with temperatures expected to get to about 99 maybe 100 degrees. You can see here, nothing but clear skies there and maybe a little spider on the lens. Little guy. Look at him.

COLLINS: He looks like a mammoth.

MARCIANO: That's a good-looking spider.

COLLINS: Can you identify that, Mr. Meteorologist?

MARCIANO: I don't know. He looks poisonous. So, let's get him out of the way. I'm terrified of spiders.

Eighty-seven degrees in Chicago with the high temperature of 89 degrees in New York City. Point out a couple things that happened yesterday. This is definitely, this is what we call a spider, spider drowner in Savannah. Torrential downpours yesterday. There were only a couple of thunderstorms that pop up across the southeast but this one obviously, was enough to flood the streets and stranded a couple of motorists. They actually had to get out of there by being rescued.

All right. I want to show you this satellite picture. We had to go out pretty far here. Here's the Atlantic Ocean and this guy right here coming off the Cape Verde Islands there near Africa. National Hurricane Center thinking hey this thing will develop into something, and if so, it will be our first tropical storm of the season. We haven't even had a one named storm yet.

COLLINS: Yes.

MARCIANO: This is easily the latest hurricane season start in the last decade and -

COLLINS: Really?

MARCIANO: -- it has been rather quiet and officially, I should mention this that the Colorado State has just put out a press release. They have lowered their forecast for the year. I would do the same thing if we ever had zero tropical storm.

COLLINS: Yes. That's very intuitive. All right. Nothing's going on. Let's go back to the spider cam.

MARCIANO: You want to see it. I think he's gone. Yes. I think we scared him. I think he was insulted. I hear spiders are very sensitive and insecure. So, I know how they feel. KOTV, thanks for that and keep the spiders off the lens.

COLLINS: Very good. We would have never gotten that if we planned it.

MARCIANO: Never.

COLLINS: Rob Marciano, thank you. We'll check back later on.

Meanwhile, are you a distracted driver? The Obama administration is taking on texting while driving. Next hour, transportation secretary Ray LaHood expected to announce details of the summit to be held next month talking about this. But we are blogging about it right now. Log on to cnn.com/heidi and tell us what you would say if you were a member of this panel of experts. Should texting while driving be banned or not? You can also give a call to the "Hotline to Heidi" number. 1-877-742-5760.

In Maryland, a gruesome case of child pornography and a warning that can take a parent's breath away. Many of the victims on tape have not yet been identified.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Just outside Baltimore, Maryland, police are looking for possible victims of child pornographers. Police say the couple made videos of children being sexually abused. The victims were as young as two and no older than 13. Police say there are several children in the videos who have not yet been identified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody in this kind of business in public service, we see a lot of very sick things and this is sickening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much disgusted about it and I can't believe that they did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: It is still not exactly clear how the couple we just showed you came into contact with the children. Both worked as emergency medical technicians with an ambulance company.

Next hour in the CNN NEWSROOM, a police spokesman joins T.J. Holmes with details on how you can track child porn. So, make sure you stick around for that. Meanwhile, a deputy in Broward County, Florida under arrest today accused of sexually assaulting undocumented immigrants. Investigators say one of his alleged victims just 17 years old. Jonathan Bleiweiss is charged with 14 counts of sexual battery by someone in the position of authority. He is also charged with false imprisonment and stalking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF AL LAMBERTI, BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA: He searched out victims and actually sexually battered his victims while he was on duty. I can't think of a worse betrayal of public trust.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're not going to tell anybody because they know they don't have any legal support for this type of situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Bleiweiss is a seven-year veteran for the Broward County Sheriff's Department.

Forty years ago this week, the world first learned the name Charles Manson. The man behind a string of especially brutal and gruesome killings in Hollywood. CNN's Ted Rowlands takes us back through the murders, the Manson family and the chilling picture of the man today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The psychopath who carved a Swastika into his forehead is 74 now. Time has changed his face, but peer into the eyes, they are as dark and penetrating as they were when the world first met Charles Manson.

It has been 40 years since the messianic mad man and his disciples slaughtered seven people.

(on camera): And it began right here on Cielo Drive, a quiet, leafy cul-de-sac overlooking Beverly Hills. You can see this security gate. Behind it, there is a mansion. But in the 1960s a much smaller house was at this address. It was home to two rising Hollywood stars. Director Roman Polanski and his wife, actress, Sharon Tate.

(voice-over): At 26, Tate was young and beautiful. She was also 8 1/2 months pregnant when the killers arrived on August 9th, 1969. On Manson's orders, four members of his cult or the family as they were called went on a murder spree at the home with knives and guns. Before leaving they left a message on the front door, scrawled in blood, the word pig. The scene was horrific, but there would be more to come.

(on camera): The next day Manson himself accompanied the group here to the home of super marketing executive Lino Labianca and his wife except for this gate and some remodeling, the house today looks very much the same as it did when the Manson family entered the property and tortured the couple before killing them.

(voice-over): Again, more cryptic words in blood like rise and helter skelter, a reference to the Beatles song of the same name.

LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think the Manson murders were the iconic crimes of the 1960s. They incorporated everything from the sexual fascination of Manson with his many women followers to the Beatles music of the day, the outlandish courtroom circus that the trial became.

ROWLANDS: Manson was a 5'2" megalomaniac. A man who spent more than half of his life behind bars before moving to California where he portrayed himself as a hippy and a musician. He attracted the lonely, desperate and troubled, mostly women who traveled with him across the state until they moved into an abandoned building, on an old movie set, outside of Los Angeles. What was behind the murders?

BLOOM: Manson said that he did it to try to start a race war. His theory was that blacks would win in a race war against the whites and they would be unable to govern and then he would emerge and be able to take over.

ROWLANDS: In 1971, Manson and four of his followers were given the death penalties but the sentences were commuted into life when California abolished capital punishment. Over the years Manson has turned his parole hearings into a circus filled with wild antics and ramblings. He will likely die in prison, a fate other members of the so-called family want to avoid. Susan Atkins who has terminal cancer was denied parole last year but is up again next month. Leslie Van Houten is also longing fro freedom. This is what she said in 2004.

LESLIE VAN HOUTEN, FORMER MANSON FAMILY MEMBER: I was raised to be a decent human being and I turned into a monster and I have spent these years going back to a decent human being, and I just don't know what else to say.

ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Be sure to tune in to "ANDERSON COOPER 360" tonight for part two of their series on the Manson murders, 40 years later. "AC 360" comes tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

Health care reform. Insurance companies have become the villain in much of the debate. We'll introduce you to one employee who went out of her way to save one family from disaster.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: The debate over health care reform. There's been a lot of bashing of insurance companies and how they respond when you need them most. So we wanted to share one family's story of a heart- wrenching crisis and an insurance company employee who became their guardian angel. CNN photojournalist Gabe Ramirez has their story in their won words. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBBIE THORNHILL, CHRISTOPHER'S MOTHER: My oldest son, Christopher, was in a car accident on September 6, 2007. He was driving his car and lost control and suffered a traumatic brain injury with several broken bones. It was the scariest time of my life and to see him suffering like that was devastating.

And then to also have to worry about his care and is he going to get what he need? Will they just send him home because we don't have the financial means. Huge things to have to think about.

The insurance company sent me letters that Chris could have something called a case coordinator.

PAM HOYT, NURSE CARE MANAGER: My name is Pam Hoyt and I'm a nurse care manager at Healthnet. Debbie is a mom of five children. She was frightened. She didn't know if he was going to live or die. She didn't know what sort of aftermath they would be dealing with.

D. THORNHILL: There was a sense of relief that this person was actually trying to help me. Was not trying to help her company find a way out of all these expenses.

HOYT: I would help her to be in control of his medical life and their family life.

THORNHILL: She seriously is a friend now. I would consider her one of my best friends. She really was genuinely concerned about my son's recovery. The day my son Christopher came home from the hospital, he was totally different than he is now. He just couldn't do anything for himself, at all. And it was like having a big, heavy, 19-year-old infant. You know, who's combative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you feeling these days?

CHRISTOPHER THORNHILL: Fine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doing good?

C. THORNHILL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At what point did you start remembering things again?

C. THORNHILL: Yesterday. I remember yesterday.

D. THORNHILL: If you ask him straight on, "Chris, do you remember this?", he'll say no. But then if you're just talking about something that happened, he'll start talking about it with you because the memory's there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's come a long way in a year.

D. THORNHILL: A whole long way. Yes.

C. THORNHILL: I was a vegetable.

HOYT: Chris? You're making me cry.

C. THORNHILL: Don't cry. Oh, please, don't cry.

HOYT: Are you Debbie?

D. THORNHILL: There were days when I just needed a shoulder, you know. And I knew I could call her. She's seen me through some of my darkest days. That's for sure. And on to some much better ones.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Photo journalist Gabe Ramirez and Christopher's story in their own words today.

Well, to many, he is known as the father of supply side economics and now Arthur Laffer is looking at the economics of health care reform and Judy Fader takes him to task. You can see it all right here in the CNN NEWSROOM coming up.

Can a successful teen dating violence prevention program in Canada help control the problem in the U.S.? We'll ask one of the program's directors in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: All right. We're going to stay on top of this story we've been telling you about all morning. Former president Bill Clinton in North Korea and expect brand-new pictures right there to show you because we wanted to get them out ASAP here. We understand that he is there in order to negotiate the freeing of two American journalists, Laura Ling and Euna Lee.

Now, the White House is denying reports that former President Bill Clinton gave Kim Jong-il a message from President Obama. That part they do deny. We heard that from our White House correspondent Elaine Quijano after the gaggle with Robert Gibbs. So that is the information we have on that.

Meanwhile, those Americans, Laura Ling and Euna Lee, have been held since March. They are accused of illegally going into North Korea for some sort of smear campaign. Again, you see President Bill Clinton there across the table from Kim Jong-il and walking right down the same hallway right next to one other. Again all of these pictures brand-new to us. Just giving you a moment to look at them as we continue to report on this news of the former president being in North Korea and speaking personally, face-to-face, with Kim Jong-Il.

Our Jill Dougherty is joining us now, our foreign affairs correspondent. Jill, these are pretty amazing pictures we're looking at now.

DOUGHERTY: Heidi, these are fascinating.

COLLINS: Yes. DOUGHERTY: Because you know, pictures of Kim Jong-Il are poured over by analysts in the United States. They look at every wrinkle in any photograph that comes out. Trying to figure out what his health is like. You know, there have been reports that he was very ill, that he had a stroke, how is he looking? Is he skinny? Is he heavy, what is happening?

And now to see the former president of the United States right next to him, it's quite extraordinary to see that and it will be very interesting for former President Clinton and the people who are with him to give their impressions, eventually, of how Kim Jong-Il looked.

This is all very important because right now added to everything else that is going on, there is a succession crisis, some people would call or at least the progression from Kim Jong-Il to his son, to his young son, Kim Jong-Un and all of this is creating this kind of instability in the situation. This is highly significant. And also I think, Heidi, you have to say it's significant because it's happening very quickly. After all, President Clinton just arrived not too long ago and already he is meeting with Kim Jong-Il. That just doesn't happen by accident.

COLLINS: And I think it's interesting, too, our Jon Voss was reporting earlier that it seems like or it might have been our former correspondent Mike Chinoy who had been saying that obviously, in order for that to happen, as quickly as it has here, that there had to have been quite a bit of ground work already done in order for them to sit down like this.

DOUGHERTY: Absolutely. We certainly know the name of Bill Clinton had been raised, you know, for a while as a possible candidate for going to North Korea to try to get those journalists out. But he was really on the back burner.

The names of Al Gore, former vice president and also Governor Richardson were named, but nobody really knew how it would work out. The North Koreans, we understand, turned them down. They turned down Richardson and they turned down the former vice president.

Apparently, they wanted Bill Clinton. Why? Because Bill Clinton, under his presidency, did get closer in relationship with the North. His secretary of state, Madeline Albright, went to North Korea. The president himself did want to go shortly before he was out of office, but it never worked out.

COLLINS: Right.

DOUGHERTY: So, this is, this is probably a trip that Bill Clinton wanted to make, maybe under different circumstances, but he is there. And it looks as if things are moving quite quickly and these would have to be very positive signs.

COLLINS: Certainly hope so. Again, just reminding everybody that the White House is saying about this and that is, quote, "This is a solely private mission that is being undertaken by the former president, Bill Clinton." But again, you can see for yourself, pictures of him with the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Il. So, Jill, let us know, once again, if we need to come back to you as we continue to look at these brand-new pictures here. Fascinating stuff.

Meanwhile, we'll move on for the moment. Your wallet takes yet another hit. A new report shows Americans aren't bringing in as much money these days.

Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with the numbers on this. Good morning to you, once again, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. Well, personal income fell 1.3 percent in June. That is a big drop. And in real dollars, it's $160 billion in lost income, just from the month before.

But keep this in perspective, Heidi. 1.3 percent lost in June, there was a 1.3 percent jump in May. So, it wiped it out.

COLLINS: Yes, isn't it basically back to neutral?

LISOVICZ: That's right. What we saw in May was a one-hit wonder. Stimulus boosting Social Security payments. But, there are reasons for concern, as well. The unemployment rate is rising, and the average workweek is getting shorter. It's now at 33 hours. The Labor Department, in fact, says the work week now is at the lowest level since it began keeping records in the early 1960s, Heidi.

COLLINS: So, how much will this impact an economic recovery as a whole, do you think, then?

LISOVICZ: A lot, Heidi. I mean, if we spent or see that our income is shrinking, our behavior changes. It's as simple as that. What we do, what we spend, accounts for more than two-thirds of what happens in terms of the overall economic activity.

We're already seeing spending hugely restrained because of the losses we're seeing in the jobs market, but also because of the losses we feel with our investments, also with housing. Spending did increase slightly in June, but that's almost completely accounted for. Higher gas prices, Heidi.

So, we're behaving differently these days. In terms of what's happening on the market, we're not spending there, either, on the second trading day of august. The Dow, NASDAQ and S&P 500 all giving back, but just slightly giving back, but considering the summer scorcher we have enjoyed, Heidi.

COLLINS: Yes, yes. All right. Susan Lisovicz, appreciate that.

Let me get to the car situation now. First, Chrysler and then General Motors and now the Detroit public school system could be headed for bankruptcy, too. CNNmoney.com's Poppy Harlow has our break down from New York. Hi, there, Poppy. Boy, very wide-reaching, this whole automobile industry.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: I know. You're talking about kids and their education, and don't we all have a right to education? But the Detroit public school system might make an unprecedented step, it might file for bankruptcy protection and it might not be the worst thing to happen to the school system, just like it wasn't the worst thing to happen to GM or Chrysler.

Here's what's going on with the Detroit public schools. A major issue is their deficit of $259 million. Got a graduation rate there that is 58 percent in Detroit proper versus 76 percent when you look at the state as a whole. You also have a host of corruption issues in the Detroit school system. For all of those reasons, enrollment is shrinking in the public schools there. We spent a day in Detroit with a very, very concerned parent. Take a listen to what she told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRIKA TURNER, DETROIT PARENT: My daughter has never attended any Detroit public schools and it's because of this. As a concerned parent, my daughter would never go to a Detroit public school as of now. Where as I felt comfortable as a child going to school, I don't feel comfortable allowing her to attend a Detroit public school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, that was Fredrika Turner. She and her daughter were standing in front of what was her high school, and it is now closed. Since 2000, enrollment in Detroit's public schools has dropped by nearly 44 percent. But, Heidi, when you compare that to the population decline over the same amount of time in Detroit, you're looking at a decline of 3 percent of the population. So, what you see is parents fleeing to the suburbs to send their kids to school outside of Detroit, Heidi.

COLLINS: So, how is Detroit trying to turn things around? The school year is upon us.

HARLOW: They are making drastic, drastic moves. They hired an emergency financial manager to cut costs. He doesn't have to answer to the school board and doesn't have to answer to really anyone. His name is Robert bob. You see him right there. What he has done, he's closed 29 schools in Detroit since he took that position and plans to shut more -- he's laid off more than 2,400 people. That, of course, includes teachers, and he is the one exploring this bankruptcy option for the school system.

His office told us today, no decision made on that yet. We'll see what happens come September, but like GM and Chrysler, what a bankruptcy would do is allow the school system to renegotiate its debt and tear up the expensive union contracts, essentially give the system a fresh start.

We want to know what you think. This has never happened in the history of this country. Should Detroit public schools file for bankruptcy? Let me know what you think. Weigh in on my Facebook page, facebook.com/poppyharlow. Quickly, Heidi, one person said they think the whole U.S. government should file for Chapter 11. Let us know what you think. COLLINS: Yes, okay, all right. Poppy Harlow, sure do appreciate that.

HARLOW: Sure.

COLLINS: Let us know what you get on those comments, OK?

HARLOW: We will.

COLLINS: Want to get to this story now. A new study finds one in five teenagers in a relationship experience some kind of dating abuse. And the impact could have a toll on teens later in life. So, could a successful dating violence protection program from Canada work here in the United States? It's a problem we've also seen here.

David Wolfe from the Center of Mental Health and Addiction in Toronto, Canada, is joining me more to talk about that. Let's first talk about that number. Seems pretty high, does it not, that this many kids are affected by their boyfriend or girlfriend, I guess I should say, in such a physically abusive manner.

DAVID WOLFE, PSYCHOLOGIST, CENTER OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION: Those of us in the field are kind of used to those numbers. It's a public health problem that affects so many kids that we all need to be a bit inoculated by it. About 10 percent of the kids are physically hitting one another in dating relationships...

COLLINS: Why? Where do they get it from?

WOLFE: From entertainment to Internet. It's all over the place. The whole shaping of how they view relationships today is based on the violence. It's an entertaining event.

COLLINS: Really?

WOLFE: ...they take pictures of each other, and it is growing worse. It's always been there, but today it is bigger than ever because they think this is what a relationship is supposed to be like. It's supposed to be controlling, abusive and supposed to be tough, and you only respect certain people.

COLLINS: So, wait a minute, your research is showing definitively that this particular problem is happening because of Hollywood?

WOLFE: Oh, no, no, no, I wouldn't say that. I would say that the kids today are just bathing in violent images about relationships. They're trying to learn how to relate to one another, especially in dating and romantic relationships but even peers. They don't have much to go by. They're trying to figure that out and they see TV shows, movies and everything, and a lot of it is very abusive and violent. We're trying to teach them how to shape healthy relationships without relying on that type of value system.

COLLINS: Who exactly is we? Are we talking about in the schools? Where do parents fit in to all of this? WOLFE: The starting point is the schools for us because every teen needs some education on unhealthy relationships, around safety, around choice, much like they do seat belt use and bicycle helmets. They need to know how to keep themselves safe if that there is drinking going on, if there's sexual pressures on them. They need to know what skills are used.

So, it starts in the schools and parents are given information about it and kept aware of it, but teens today want to learn the stuff a bit separate from their parents. They just can't learn it at home. They need to teach it from their peers and their teachers and their communities.

COLLINS: So, kids aren't learning from their parents on how to be respectful and how...

WOLFE: They learned a lot already. They've learned a lot already. But this is where they really need more information, and the parents can't possibly give it all to them in this world that they are living in. They need other messages, and before, I think there was too much abuse going on anyway. Today -- to me, this is a point, a transition where teens can learn about healthy relationships to break the cycle so they don't continue to have it into adulthood. It's not just about stopping violence, it's about promoting good relationships.

COLLINS: All right. Dr. David Wolfe, we sure do appreciate you being with us today to talk about this problem. One in ten, I believe we said, are experiencing some kind of teen dating violence. Thanks so much again. Dr. David Wolfe, clinical psychologist.

WOLFE: You're welcome.

COLLINS: Meanwhile, are you a distracted driver? The Obama administration taking on texting while driving. In fact, next hour, transportation secretary ray LaHood expected to announce details of a summit to be held next month.

So, we are asking for your comments on what you would say if you were a member of this panel? Do you think texting while driving should be banned or not so much? We have been getting plenty of passionate responses here. Let's go ahead and look at the Heidi Mac and let's hear what you guys are saying.

Beth says this. "There's no reason to have to text somebody while on the road. It would be a shame to have to live with the guilt of killing some family so you can text back 'lol' to somebody's joke." And this one says, "In addition, the offense should be treated on the same level as DUI, DWI, if not worse."

And, "The government can ban it, but what good would it do? They made talking on your cell phone illegal in some states, but it doesn't stop anyone from doing it." The whole issue of enforcement. Certainly something they'll be talking about today. And "Most cell phones have GPS capability, as such, speed can be measured. Add a feature that disables texting if the GPS shows speeds greater than ten miles per hour." Interesting. We're taking all your comments. We'd love to hear from you guys. Go to CNN.com/newsroom and click on Heidi and let us know what you think.

It's rumored he sketched Laffer Curve, often used to justify tax cuts, on a restaurant napkin. Now Arthur Laffer outlines his thoughts on health care costs. Judy Fader (ph) has her ideas. Both of them coming up next, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: A Bangkok Airways pilot is dead after crashing his plane into an old control tower. This happened on a popular resort island in Thailand. The plane skidded off the runway in stormy weather into the base of the tower. At least 37 people were injured, seven of them seriously.

Rob Marciano on storm watch this morning because, a lot of activity kind of right in the middle of the country, right?

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Always hate to see that, yikes. All right, Rob, keep us posted on that one. Thank you.

MARCIANO: Sure.

COLILNS: It's rumored he sketched his Laffer Curve, often used to justify tax cuts, on a restaurant napkin. Now, Arthur Laffer outlines his thoughts on healthcare costs, and Judy Fader has her ideas. Both of them joining me in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Lawmakers may be able to take a break from Washington, but they can't get away from the issues, especially health care reforms. In town hall meetings across the country, people want to know if they will be covered and how much it will cost. Check this out, courtesy YouTube. A woman in Pennsylvania confronting Arlen Specter and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Medicaid is broke. Medicare is broke. Social Security is broke. And you want us to believe that a government that can't even run cash for clunkers program is going to run health care?

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Health care is rising, which has insurance companies eliminating pre-existing conditions with a lot of red tape. You have a president who has a system to improve the situation. At least take a look at the bill and then tell what you think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: All right, so you can see on the top there what YouTube said, which is "How can you manage something like cash for clunkers if you can't manage Medicare and Medicaid?".

And that's just some of what is going on at these town hall meeting where the Democrats are going back, as well as Republicans. Arlen Specter used to be a Republican, trying to talk more about what health care reform will mean for the individuals, people wanting to know more. They want to know how much it costs.

So, Arthur Laffer is joining us right now. He has a study that he's done for the Texas Public Policy Foundation. As you may know, he developed the Laffer Curve, which argues that government can maximize revenue by finding that optimal tax rate. Now, he's talking about the health care wedge. He is in New York.

And Judy Feder, a senior fellow for the Center for American Progress, is in Washington. She has a bit of a different view on all of this. Both of you, first off, thanks for joining us today. We sure do appreciate it.

Clearly, this is a topic of discussion for now and for quite some time. I want to begin with you, Arthur Laffer. You actually say that President Obama's health care plan will have a number of consequences. First off, and what we heard in the YouTube video there, is what is it going to cost people and what will it do to the federal deficit in the long term?

ARTHUR LAFFER, FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN, LAFFER ASSOCIATES: Yes, well, in the cost area, Heidi, what I think will happen is by separating the customers or the patients from the doctors and from the health care on cost basis, you're going to see costs rise dramatically, I believe. I think this will lead to a large underestimate of what the total cost of the program will be, and that it will add to our budget deficits dramatically.

I used the P.J. O'Rourke (ph) quote here, which is very appropriate, "If you think health care costs a lot now, just wait until you see how much it costs when it's free." It's a classic program where costs will not be contained, and you'll see costs going up a lot more over time and the deficit rising.

COLLINS: In fact, looking at your report here, which, again, is called "The Prognosis for National Health Insurance." It says, according to you, by 2019 that the deficit will actually go up by $286 billion and that inflation, medical price inflation, will go up by actually more than 5 percent. Judy, what do you think? Is that true?

JUDY FEDER, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: No, I'm saddened, actually, that, Arthur -- welcome to health care. I think you've sadly misunderstood the health care market. Our current and previous CBO, Congressional Budget Office directors, have said that health reform is critical to getting our deficit under control. And much of what I've seen you argue is that, that the private sector is more effective than the public sector. That's just simply wrong. Over the last several decades, our Medicare program has been much more effective on average and for every enrollee controlling costs and the private sector. The private insurance industry throughout the nation is highly concentrated. Health reform is about getting the cost out of the system, stopping paying insurers for spending money on how not to cover us and actually get...

COLLINS: But, Judy, don't you say -- forgive me. Don't you say the public sector has actually been taking on sort of the brunt of the health care costs here?

FEDER: Well, the public sector is taking up the hardest patients to serve by serving older people and people with disabilities. They're the most expensive, and what I said is that actually they have, they have kept their costs lower than the private sector for many of the last -- for most of the last several decades. But Heidi --

COLLINS: But you actually say that one out of every $10 is being paid for health care out of personal pockets.

LAFFER: That's true. One out of every $10 is. That's gone way, way down. It's really -- what it's done separated the consumer and the patient from the market, from the doctor. And that's what happened. I do dispute Judy's comments a little bit. I mean, if you look at the unfunded liabilities of Medicare and Medicaid and the projections going out as to what these costs will be, I think she's grossly underestimating the type of costs you're going to see from these programs.

I mean, if you like the post office and the department of motor vehicles and you think they're run well, wait until you see Medicare, Medicaid and health care done by the government. I mean, the single- provider, I think, is a real problem, Judy. And I know we have a disagreement here.

FEDER: But Arthur, one of the pieces of our disagreement is not only on what is much more effective but the nature of the health plan we're talking about. Estimates are that the Medicare will become more secure because we're going to save money. And we are talking about building on the private system. Nobody is talking about a single- government program. So, I'm not sure where you're getting that.

COLLINS: OK. Well, guys, I have to tell you, we are running out of time. I would love to have you come on again and talk more about this...

LAFFER: I would love that.

COLLINS: ...because I do believe that there is more to talk about here, particularly in the paper that you're releasing today, Arthur, this health care wedge, or you say that there is going to be this huge divide between the consumer, which is the patient, and the provider. But, Judy, your point is, you actually say that President Obama's plan will put us on a plan to fiscal responsibility reining down these costs. FEDER: Exactly. Exactly. The estimates are in, and the industry has agreed, that there are $700 billion, a third of what we spend in health care, is wasted every year. And the industry and the experts recognize that over the next ten years with health reform, we can save $2 trillion. And $600 billion of that to the federal government.

COLLINS: All right, Arthur. I have to give you the last word here.

LAFFER: Well, thank you. I don't agree with her at all on that. When you look at these programs, and if you look at the study, it not only separates the consumer from the doctor, but it also will lead to quality declines. It will also lead to access declines, as well. Accessibility will diminish dramatically, as well.

When they start having budget problems, Heidi, what I worry about -- I really worry about how they'll try to solve the cost problems. Are they going to cut off access? What are they going to do? I just have no idea. But I think it's a real problem.

COLLINS: All right. Well, our bookers are on the phone right now setting up another appearance for the two of you. We have a lot more to discuss. Sure appreciate you coming out today, Arthur Laffer and Judy Feder. Thanks so much, guys.

FEDER: Thank you.

COLLINS: And we'll be back in a moment right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.