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Town Halls Get Heated Over Health Care Reform; North Korea Pardons U.S. Journalists; Soldier is Laid to Rest at Arlington National Cemetery; Fight Over 'Clunkers'
Aired August 04, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: A fallen soldier comes home. What his mother wants you to know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYVONNE LIGHTFOOT, MOTHER OF FALLEN SOLDIER: I want my son to be remembered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A rare and inside look, a CNN exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(AUDIENCE CHANTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The anger on display we have seen since the Obama presidency continues. What is really going on here?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are Pazderah (ph), forces who wear black top to bottom without any figures or symbols on them.
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SANCHEZ: An amazing, never before heard explanation of who these Iranian Basij really are, from a man who used to be one of them.
And look at this picture. The former president trying to win the release of two journalists. It's happening now on your national conversation for Tuesday, August 4th, 2009.
Hello again, everybody, with the next generation of news. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is a conversation, as we often say, not the a speech. As always, it's your turn to get involved.
As we begin this particular conversation, there is another health care forum that has been interrupted. There seems to be a pattern going on here. Have you seen some of the pictures that we've been showing from around the country?
I want you to see this one for yourself. And you know what I also want you to do? I want you to make your own decision as you watch this. So, we're going to show you as much of this as we think is necessary for you to get a clear picture of what's actually going on.
This is the latest example, Green Bay, Wisconsin, last night, Democratic Congressman and medical doctor Steve Kagen. He called a meeting to discuss the crucial issue of health care reform. Since he is a doctor and a politician, he wanted to meet with his constituents. Here is what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill.
(SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Now shall I want to show you another one. Let me set this one up for you.
This is Congressman Tim Bishop. Tim Bishop is from New York. He says that he wants to make sure his audience is civil and informed, as he prepares with the audience and his staff to have this town hall meeting. Watch what happens to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a nice little pension, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for other people's health care. We have got (INAUDIBLE)
(APPLAUSE)
REP. TIM BISHOP (D), NEW YORK: Can I finish this sentence?
(CROSSTALK)
BISHOP: I'm about to tell you.
(CROSSTALK)
BISHOP: No one is talking about the government taking over health care.
(CROSSTALK)
(SHOUTING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are pulling the wool over our eyes.
(CROSSTALK)
BISHOP: I am trying to. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There is another one. Congressman Bishop -- by the way, let me add this to you. Congressman Bishop says that he is not having any more town hall meetings after having to be escorted out of there by police.
Here is another one. This one seems to show democratic congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas. He is -- in this video you're going to see, he is wearing a beige shirt. He is being chased out of his own voters forum. watch this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no! Just say no!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is amazing to watch. And look who is joining us now. It is the congressman.
Congressman, thanks so much for being with us, sir.
REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D), TEXAS: Rick, great to be with you from deep in the heart of Texas.
SANCHEZ: Deep in the heart of Texas. I love that part of the country.
What was that like?
DOGGETT: Well, Rick, there is a little pattern here that you just pointed out to your viewers.
This is not grassroots, pitchfork-waving folks. This is a coordinated campaign by the Republican Party and the insurance industry. And just to modify a little one thing you said, I visited with these people for an hour, listening to their questions, trying to explain the plan, having their taunts, boos, and so forth, like my colleague.
And only after they began to make so much noise that no one could be heard did I decide first to try to visit with people individually. And, then, as the party of no, never, they appropriately began chanting at the top of their lungs their no slogan.
SANCHEZ: Well, you just -- you made a charge, so I'm going to have to challenge you on that.
DOGGETT: Please do.
SANCHEZ: I think it's my responsibility. You say these people are basically being orchestrated by the Republican Party. And who else did you say? The...
(CROSSTALK)
DOGGETT: Well, the insurance industry has a hand in this.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: How do you know that? That's a heck of a thing to say.
(CROSSTALK)
DOGGETT: Yes. I know with reference to the Republican Party because it is on the Web site of the local party chair, both urging them to come and thanking them for coming. It's interesting that they decided to set all this up as a video opportunity.
So, what you just showed was film taken by the Republican Party of Texas on a new YouTube video. They proudly proclaim that their edited version, one snippet of one question, was produced by the Republican Party of Texas.
Today's "New York Times" reports the coordinated effort of some of those groups that have insurance company funding. They will do anything they can to block health care reform for working Americans.
SANCHEZ: I guess the one thing we should always expect of each other, whether we agree with each other or not, is that we are going to be, when we come into any conversation or dialogue, both civil and informed. And I think Congressman Bishop made that point.
Do you get a sense, either in your environment, where you had your meeting or in the others that you have seen so far, that people are either being civil or informed?
DOGGETT: Rick, unfortunately, not, although many of people that were gathered there weren't there to say no, but to listen and learn as I was. I began this discussion saying that I was ready to show as much respect as I received.
But I think you get a flavor not just from the yells, but when they show up with a sign, Lloyd Doggett, traitor to Texas, devil to all people, and a beautiful photograph of a marble tombstone with my name on it, that they didn't come to learn and talk. They came to demonize.
SANCHEZ: Look at that video. I mean, they are -- it seems like they weren't just content to tell you what they have to say, which, by the way, is their right as citizens of the United States.
DOGGETT: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: And we should be glad that there are people that are out there that are assembling and that are passionate and that are showing how much they care about this issue, right?
DOGGETT: I couldn't agree more and would defend their right to say whatever they want critical of me. It's when they go over the line and engage in conduct that denies their neighbors an opportunity to be heard.
It wasn't that I was hurt. It was that their neighbors were denied their right of free expression by their unruly, mob-like conduct.
SANCHEZ: One of the things I noticed when I watched the -- all three of them -- and that's why we wanted viewers to watch all three. And correct me if I'm wrong. But I got the impression that a lot of the things that were being said in one were also being said in two and were also being said in three, some very parallel statements, if you will.
And I'm wondering if you have stopped to figure out where these folks are getting their information, because they do have a very parallel ideology, do they not?
DOGGETT: Well, they do have a script. I think this is disseminated through the Republican Party, through Web sites that they are going through and through some of the private organizations that are helping orchestrate all this. And it is pretty much the same script everywhere, government takeover, euthanasia, socialized medicine.
They like to use bumper script slogans that are totally as phony as the grassroots nature of this organization.
SANCHEZ: Why are they phony? Because both parties -- I have to ask you -- both parties from time to time have used those kind of bumper slogan speaking points, as they say.
DOGGETT: Well, they are phony as they relate to this bill, which has been a couple of years in the making.
On euthanasia, for example, there is no provision for euthanasia. There is for the first time in this billion an opportunity for a doctor to be paid under Medicare if his patient or her patient chooses to seek counseling about do they want to be tied to a machine forever, do they want a living will, whatever.
On socialized medicine, the government owns no facilities. It hires no physicians. And, in fact...
SANCHEZ: And what happened when you told them that? What happened when you tried to make that point clear to them?
DOGGETT: Only jeers and an attempt to refer to provisions in the bill by line and verse with whatever they had been given to deny it was true. There was never any willingness, any give-and-take.
I became convinced, Rick, we could write that bill any way one would want to write it. Nothing would satisfy them.
And I would like to make this point, because I think it's important. SANCHEZ: All right.
DOGGETT: They were waving the 10th Amendment, the rights reserved to the states, and actually admitted to me, several of them, in the discussion that they did not only want to stop health care reform. They want to repeal Medicare and Social Security, because that's the same philosophy of no rights for the federal government to play a role in helping its people with their individual choice.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Well, that's why we wanted to have you on. You are uniquely qualified to talk about what it is like to be in one of these.
You experienced it yourself.
(CROSSTALK)
DOGGETT: And, Rick, I hope it is a message out there to your viewers to not sit back and think President Obama and the Democratic Party...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, that's a good point. Where is the other side? Like I said and I think you said, you have got to admire people who are passionate about their cause.
DOGGETT: Right.
SANCHEZ: You may think that they are ill-informed. Regardless, they are passionate, they're Americans, they have something to say, and they're showing up.
Where is the other side? Where's are all the millions of Americans who, according to all the polls, really want this thing to pass? Where are their rallies?
DOGGETT: Yes. Many of them came, but they were drowned out on Saturday.
But I will tell you, if -- unless more Americans who are suffering under the insurance companies get out there and express their opinion, write their letter to the editor, call in to these talk shows, if they don't get that message out, the insurance companies will win in September. And we just cannot let that happen.
SANCHEZ: All right, Congressman Doggett, thanks, sir, for being with us, the man who was chased out of a parking lot, as you saw there in the video. Thanks for being so candid, sir.
DOGGETT: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.
If your car is starting to get too many dings, starting to smell a little bit, like maybe it has rained inside your car too many times, because your kids left the windows down, like in my case, or you just hate the look of your car, you can trade it in and maybe get back as much as $4,500.
Listen, everybody in this country seems to want to know more about this. The secretary of transportation is going to join me in just a little bit to try and sell you a new car for your clunker. We are going to take you through this.
Also, some unbelievable pictures. Former President Bill Clinton meets with North Korea President Kim Jong-Il to negotiate the release of two captive American journalists. Look at these pictures coming in just in the last couple of hours.
Now, you think Mr. Clinton is freelancing or is he working on behalf of the White House? Is he doing this on his own or is he doing this for President Barack Obama? Let me know. I would be interested on your take on that.
And always remember that we do an after-show now. The conversation continues here right at 4:00. It is on CNN.com/live, CNN.com/live. So much going on. Stay with us. We're going to let you see what a dignified transfer looks like when we come back as well. Hold on. I'm being told now that we have got breaking news that is coming into us right high now.
According to what we are getting right now -- stay with me, folks, because I want to make sure I read this right. You want me to read what's in the yellow right here? All right, thanks.
Kim Jong Il -- stay with me here. Kim Jong Il has just ordered the chairman of the national defense commission on granting a special pardon to the two American journalists who had been sentenced to hard labor. And this is in accordance with article 103 of the Socialist Constitution by releasing them.
All right, here we go. This is information. This is the North Korean state news agency that is now bringing us this information. As you saw, it was handed to me just as I was getting ready to go to commercial there.
This is also being reported now by the Associated Press. I understand some of the folks behind me now are diligently calling the State Department to make sure. This is an important story for me, an important story for my staff.
The very last interview that we did with one of these two journalists was right here on this show, just a day -- on the eve, in fact, of her going into the area that the North Koreans say where she was actually captured.
So, over the last couple of hours, since early this morning, we learned that President Bill Clinton had gone to North Korea to Pyongyang to actually try and negotiate their release. There was no indication at this point, and as we asked just moments ago during the tease, whether he was going there on behalf of the United States or was going as a freelancer, as some have said in the past. We are still not clear on the answer to that question, but we do know and learned just before we went on the air that he was allowed to meet with both of the journalists. And now, as you see for yourself, we are just now getting information that, in fact, the journalists have been given a reprieve, a special pardon, from Kim Jong Il himself.
Again, this is information coming to us now both from the Associated Press and they are stories that are coming in from the news network. In fact, yes, Angie, can we go with it?
CNN has now confirmed that this is, in fact, what is going on right now, that Kim Jong Il has ordered the pardon of two American journalists who had been sentenced to hard labor in accordance with article 103 of the socialist constitution.
Jill Dougherty is joining me.
Jill, thanks so much for hustling out there for us.
We have been following this story here for quite a long time. The allegation of course is that both of these journalists had not only gotten too close to North Korea, but that had actually crossed into the border when they were captured.
Now it appears that Kim Jong Il is saving face by essentially saying, we are not saying they didn't do it, but we are going to go ahead and give them a pardon. The other part of this is obviously going to be -- and this is something you and I are going to have to talk about -- is the United States giving anything up here? Is there a quid pro quo? Is there any kind of deal?
Jill, take it away.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, I think you would have to go back. Look at what the United States has said, and specifically Hillary Clinton did about two or three weeks ago, say -- in essence, issued an apology for the actions by those journalists.
So there was an admission by the United States that possibly they had broken the law. This still would have to be clarified. But the point is, the North Koreans believed that they had crossed the border illegally, that they had certain hostile acts.
And what they are saying here is that President Clinton, former President Clinton, expressed a sincere apology to Kim Jong Il, and Kim Jong Il, in turn, pardons the journalists and they are released.
It also says that Clinton courteously -- and I'm reading, by the way -- this is a report from the North Korean news agency, KCNA -- that Clinton relayed a verbal message from President Barack Obama expressing thanks for this and reflecting views on ways of improving relations between the two countries.
So, what we have -- actually, Rick, is a very quick mission by President Clinton. He got there. He met with Kim Jong Il. This, obviously, was probably worked out in advance.
SANCHEZ: I was just going to say.
(CROSSTALK)
DOUGHERTY: ... the trip was. The trip definitely was. It was planned according to a source that we have who's intimately associated with these plans to try to free the journalists that this was worked out -- the trip was worked out in advance.
And you would have to say that right now this has happened so quickly that there is no way this could happen simply in a few hours.
SANCHEZ: We have heard from Laura Ling's family, as well as Euna Lee since we have been following this story now for the better part of the last month.
As I noted moments ago, the last interview that Laura Ling did was with me here just on the eve of her being detained by the North Koreans.
What we don't know, because there has been just a complete news vacuum on this is what -- where have they been? Where were they actually staying? What is their present condition?
And now we add to that, when will they actually be released? Will the former president be flying back to the United States with both of these journalists?
Let's do this. Jill, can you hang tight there real quick for us?
DOUGHERTY: Sure.
SANCHEZ: We are going to try and take a break. I want to ask you about some of those questions. And I also want to ask about what the other part of -- what is it that Kim Jong Il would be wanting from the United States with this apparently brokered deal with former President Bill Clinton? Stay with us. A lot of news going on. And we're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
For those of you now joining us, CNN has confirmed in fact that the two journalists that we have been talking so much about, Laura Ling and Euna Lee, who were captured and detained by the North Koreans allegedly trying to sneak into the country or being in their territory, a deal has just been brokered between Kim Jong Il and former President Bill Clinton, who is there in Pyongyang.
And, apparently, they have been pardoned. They have been pardoned. Those are all the details we have at this point. We are working to get more.
I have got Jill Dougherty who is joining me. And I also am now being joined with somebody who might be able to help us make some news here. I am being joined as well by Evans Revere. He is the president of Korea Society of New York.
And I am reading here that you have been discussing this case with the North Korean for quite some time. I imagine in this those discussions you have learned what maybe they have been looking for in all of this. What can you tell us, sir?
EVANS REVERE, PRESIDENT, KOREA SOCIETY: Well, I don't know if I am going to make any news. I think the news has just been made by President Clinton and Kim Jong Il.
But, indeed, a number of us have been having quiet conversations with the North Koreans in recent weeks, urging them to do the right and the sensible thing.
SANCHEZ: Right.
And it's been my impression based on those conversations and other conversations that I have been privy to that the North Koreans have been increasingly inclined in recent weeks to recognize the fact that their legal system having run its course, they have had their verdict, they have had their sentence and all that, that the time, indeed, was here for them to do the right thing.
And it was only one thing that they were waiting for. And that was an appropriate moment to allow the young ladies to go home, the two journalists to go home. And that was, of course, the president's visit.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me stop you there. Does the appropriate moment involve what they are able to get back for doing something like this?
REVERE: Well, I think what they are going to get is what they have just gotten, and that is a visit by the former president of the United States. I think it has given the North Koreans some face. I think it's given them some cover and I think it has given them, most importantly, an opportunity to do the right thing, and in the context of something that will probably provide somewhat of an improvement in the atmosphere between the United States and North Korea.
SANCHEZ: Jill Dougherty, let me bring you into this.
Is Jill still with us? No, Jill is gone.
All right, let me ask you this, Professor, then, Evans, if you possibly could give us some insight into this.
REVERE: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Do you think at this point that this was something that was orchestrated by the White House or that the former president of the United States just decided he wanted to make this trip or perhaps something in between? You have been following this thing. What can you tell us?
REVERE: Sure.
For quite some weeks now, there have been a number of contacts going on in New York, not only the contacts, nongovernmental contacts, such as mine and others. But our representatives, State Department's representatives and people from the government have been engaged with the North Koreans in some quiet discussions and diplomacy to try to frame the issue and try to frame an understanding of -- of what it would take to get the two journalists home.
This did not happen overnight. I was listening to somebody on the program a moment ago describe this as -- as weeks and weeks in the making. And that's right on the mark. Now, it may be that the decision to send President Clinton as the envoy to close the deal was something that happened fairly late in the game.
SANCHEZ: Right.
REVERE: But the idea of an envoy, the idea of a mission to Pyongyang and the -- a conversation that's been going on about how to bring this result about is one that is of long standing.
The families have been involved in it. The families have been kept involved and kept informed by the White House and the State Department. And I think it's a very, very good outcome for the families. I think it's a good outcome for the United States.
SANCHEZ: I wonder, though, if it's going to be a good outcome for North Korea, when you especially consider that, I mean, this is a country that's been acting consistently as a renegade. And, yes, it is very nice that they are letting these two Americans leave.
But think of all the people who are still having to live under that regime, where they are being brutalized, according to reports. Many of them are being killed. Many of them are being captured. There is a thought police in that country, not to mention the fact that they have been scaring the heck out of the world with some of their nukes lately.
So, do we say, thanks for doing that and now we are going to be nice to you or do we go back to the hard line? Tell us what you think.
REVERE: Oh, I think it's a lot more complicated than that.
A, I think, certainly, one of the reasons that the North Koreans have consented to allow the two young journalists to go is a recognition that the world's attention was increasingly focused on their legal system, their judicial system and their penal system. And that was creating, I think, a tremendous level of interest in something that the world had not been tracking before.
And this, at least from the North Korean perspective, is probably a way of relieving some of the pressure. Now on to the bigger issues.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
REVERE: There are plenty of them on the table. The North Koreans have acted in the manner that you have just described. And I could go into great and gory detail, but I won't, about all the things that they have done.
SANCHEZ: Right.
REVERE: The record is very clear. But what this does is that it removes a major obstacle, it removes a major cloud over the relationship and it removes a barrier to the sorts of consultations and discussions that I hope will follow at some point in the coming weeks and perhaps get us back to the table.
And I also hope that this gesture by the United States, which I support, and I think it's a positive one -- I also hope that this gesture will convince the North Koreans that there is another path that they should and could be going down. And it is a path of cooperation. It's a path that will require them to reverse a number of the steps that they have taken and get back to where we were several months ago, in terms of implementing these agreements.
SANCHEZ: What's the hurdle for them? Why not go in that -- and you know what? Can you stick around? Well, we have Jill Dougherty back.
(CROSSTALK)
REVERE: Sure.
SANCHEZ: And we just -- we have got to get a break in and pay some bills. And then I want to come back.
And I think a lot of Americans have been wondering for some time, what is the hurdle that keeps this country from wanting to be, Kim Jong Il in particular, a good citizen of the world, if nothing else, maybe not perfect? He could still be imperfect, like the rest of us, but it just seems like it goes beyond the pale from what we have read coming out of that country.
Jill Dougherty is going to be with us when we come back. And we are also going to be here with Evans Revere, who is taking us through this as well. He has been part of the talks that have led to this breakthrough that we're just now able to report here on CNN.
And that is that both Laura Ling and Euna Lee have been pardoned and will likely soon be returning to the United States. We don't know when. We don't know their condition. But we are hoping to find out.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We are talking to Evans Revere. We're also talking to Jill Dougherty about the breaking news that we're now handling for you. And that is that Laura Ling and Euna Lee have both been pardoned by the -- by the great one, or the great leader -- I forget his own moniker from time to time.
Nonetheless, Kim Jong Il of North Korea has chosen to pardon these two women, after being in consultation and negotiations with former President Bill Clinton.
Let's get back to Jill Dougherty.
A couple of things, Jill. I do want to ask you if you know anything about when they might be coming back or if there's any new details that are coming out of this. And I also want to ask you about why this country continues to act in a rogue manner.
DOUGHERTY: Well, on the first question, Rick, you would presume that, now that they have been pardoned, that they can leave.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
DOUGHERTY: And, so, I -- I guess we can presume that they would be on that plane with President Bill Clinton. They could be coming back to the United States very quickly, because that was his mission, was to free them. That's what he was supposed to do. And, apparently, he has done it. So, they should be able to come back.
Now...
SANCHEZ: Now on the other question that we were talking with Evans Revere about. Why do they, as an American, who just watches from an outside, not an insider like you who studied this, why do they continue to act like a rogue nation?
DOUGHERTY: You know Rick, I have been to North Korea and it seems to me that when you try to put yourself in their shoes, you kind of understand some of the paranoia that they have. They are pretty much paranoid about the outside world. They believe that other countries, specifically the United States, want to destroy them. They also know that there is money to be made in doing the things that they do, selling weapons, selling nuclear technology, et cetera. And they are desperate for money they will do anything, sell anything to survive. To them, it seems rational. To us it seems like rogue nation, but it's business as usual. That's what they do to survive.
SANCHEZ: Evans, I'm going to give you the invitation now to give us a little bit of the gore that you teased us with moments ago with obviously not being too crazy, because there might be some people having a late lunch or an early dinner. But are the stories that we hear about the atrocities that take place in that country true or confirmable?
DOUGHERTY: Well, there are ... oh, I'm sorry.
SANCHEZ: Either way. I know both of you...
REVERE: Go ahead, Jill and I will follow up.
SANCHEZ: Jill, why don't you start with this? DOUGHERTY: From the observation that I have and from what I've seen, there is of course -- there are people who are very hungry in that country. There are people who are abused. There are people who are in prison and there are definite violations of human rights according to the reports that we have. But there are a lot of different reports and some of those may or may not be true. But you would have to say that it is a very controlled society. And that repression is used to keep people in line.
SANCHEZ: Draw a picture for us, if you would, Evans.
REVERE: Just to add to that, I think what Jill has said is right on the mark. There have been lots of reports, books, articles and confessionals, if you will, provided by defectors who have come out of the North and these convey some very horrific tales.
Once again, sometimes there can be some exaggerations, but the overall message, the overall picture that's been drawn, is one that is very similar to the picture that Jill just described. It is a very closed, it's a very secretive, it's a very fearful and I think the word paranoid is probably an accurate word to use.
And if you look at their behavior, a lot of their behavior can be described as the actions and the statements and the policies not of a strong country but of a fragile one and a country that fears that it may not be able to exist. So a lot of their actions have a certain internal logic. It is not a logic that we like or feel comfortable with but it's a logic that allows them to survive through some of the mechanisms that Jill just described.
SANCHEZ: All right, here's a tough question for both of you, then. Are you ready for this one? If they are that horrid, if they are that horrid, that bestial, if they have done such terrible things to their own people -- if this man Kim Jong-il is presumably responsible for these things, should any former president of the United States go there, shake hands and negotiate and be photographed side by side with such a man?
DOUGHERTY: I'll go first.
REVERE: Go for it.
DOUGHERTY: Well, I would say, look, what they want to do, the United States, this administration wants to get something. No. 1, they wanted to get those Americans out of there. And apparently, they've done it. Number two, they want to get the North back to negotiations. And if there is a way to shift this deteriorating situation, which was very dangerous, they were setting off missiles, they were doing nuclear tests. If you can bring them back and kind of shift the rocks and bring them back to the negotiating table, that's getting something. And perhaps, nobody knows, but perhaps this could begin that trajectory.
SANCHEZ: So it is worth even the bad P.R.? Evans, you've got 30 seconds, go ahead. REVERE: Just a couple of comments here. The primary mission of President Clinton was to get the journalists back and he appears to have succeeded in that. He was not there is a negotiator. Every single U.S. administration for decades has tried to negotiation with the North Koreans, sometimes successfully, sometimes not so successfully.
I did this job for many, many years as a negotiator in the State Department. It is worth the effort to try to move North Korea in a better direction while keeping our powder dry and keeping our alliances strong in the region and remembering who are friends are. But the ultimate goal here is to try to defang North Korea, get rid of the nuclear weapons program, and enhance and improve security in the region. And that is something that is worth the shot and every president has agreed with that fundamental core policy.
SANCHEZ: Good answer. My thanks to you. I thought, it's a difficult question. I was born in a communist country that many people often criticize whether we should be talking to them as well, as you know, in Fidel Castro. And I have always been curious as to what the right balance is to strike when dealing with something like this. Two people who know a lot about it. My thanks to both of you.
When we come back, we are going to be joined by someone from the White House as well who now wants to get in on this conversation as well. The breaking news for those of you who are sticking with us through this and we've got a lot of other news that we're going to be bringing you as well, is that the two journalists, last of which did an interview on this show before she disappeared, that would be Laura Ling and here photographer and producer Euna Lee have apparently been pardoned by Kim Jong-il after consultations and negotiations, whatever the proper word is to use there, with the former president of the United States.
New information coming out every moment. We're going to be sharing it with you. And when we come back, a representative from the White House. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We are following some breaking news stories for you. And obviously we're getting a lot of response, a lot of kudos for the former president of the United States, Bill Clinton. Let's go to our Twitter board if we can, Robert or John, make the switch.
"Bill has that charisma. The North Koreans were happy to hear from what they comprehend." And "great reporting today on the Euna and Laura situation. Thank you for doing such a great job on this."
Well, you know, we got the information just as it was coming in. All right, come back to me if you can, guys.
All right, let's reset something here. The situation is that both Laura Ling and Euna Lee apparently have been pardoned by Kim Jung-il after conferring with the former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.
There are still a lot of questions on this story and we're trying to drill down on these, to get these for you. And we've just been told that a representative from the White House is going to join me in just seconds hopefully to bring us up to date, possibly minutes, to bring us up to date.
While he gets ready and puts on the microphone, let me bring you up to date on the other story that we've been promising to bring you every day this week. We made a commitment to this. And the commitment is what's going on in Afghanistan.
Every day this week, right here, we have been talking about Afghanistan, the war, the politics, the legacy, the marines and today the cost. No, I'm not talking about the dollar cost here, folks. I want you to see this picture. These are two U.S. Army soldiers, right. They're young, they're smiling, they're brothers in arms. They're hanging out before a mission in Afghanistan. That's Private First Class Dennis Pratt on the left and PFC Anthony Lightfoot on the right. This picture was taken July 8th. Twelve days later, July 20th, both men would die in combat.
I have done a lot of interviews, because of what I do for a living as you see me doing them every day. I have interviewed presidents, foreign heads of states, tycoons and even once in a while, some buffoons. All are important interviews in their own way but none that I have done is likely as important as the one I am about to show you. One soldier's mom, her name is LyVonne Lightfoot is allowing me, honoring me really, to tell the story of her son's return.
Right about now, he's being laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery. Right about now, exactly. Last week, he arrived at the United States. Today, I want to stop what I'm doing right now and I want to bring you Anthony Lightfoot's story in honor of all U.S. soldiers who have lost their lives in combat but maybe whose stories weren't told.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): There is an official military term for this process, this slow-motion removal of U.S. military caskets from an airplane. It is not a macho fighting term or a clever acronym. It is just two words, dignified transfer. It's not a performance. It's not done for the benefit of the cameras or a television audience. In fact, most dignified transfers happen without a camera anywhere near, middle of the night, in the rain, in the snow. Honor guards, silent, rigid, strong, disciplined, dignified.
Lots of people in this country believe you shouldn't see video or pictures of these caskets when they arrive at Dover Air Force Base. That's a debate for another day. Today, we can see them when and if the family of the fallen man or woman gives permission. And the man inside that flag-draped coffin buried today at Arlington, his mother gave us permission, to let you see this. She wants you to see this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LYVONNE LIGHTFOOT, SON DIED IN COMBAT: I don't see why we can't share our loved ones with the world. Some people may want it private. But I want my son to be remembered.
SANCHEZ: Her son, her soldier, Anthony Lightfoot. Two months and one day after his 20th birthday, he died July 20th in Afghanistan.
LIGHTFOOT: They told me that Anthony had got hit by improvised explosives and then some rounds went off and then a grenade shot through the vehicle.
SANCHEZ: Did they say that he died instantly?
LIGHTFOOT: I am pretty sure that he did die instantly.
SANCHEZ: Is that important to you?
LIGHTFOOT: Yes. He didn't -- I don't believe he suffered. He died instantly, because I was told he don't have his lower extremities.
SANCHEZ: How often do you cry?
LIGHTFOOT: I cry every now and then at night. I don't get much sleep. Then, sometimes I be thinking I be hearing somebody be saying, mom. But I don't say anything but I just turn.
SANCHEZ: His voice?
LIGHTFOOT: Yes. One night I thought I saw him sitting in the chair. And I guess I was seeing things, I don't know. But like I said, when his coffin came back to Dover, Delaware, I saw this little puff of smoke saying, mom, I'll be all right, don't cry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: By the way, this story isn't finished. Lyvonne Lightfoot, who drives a school bus and is also proud to say she is the mother of Anthony Lightfoot. She lives in Lawrenceville, Georgia, when I visited her. Today, she is in Washington doing what a mother should never have to do. She is burying her own son. LyVonne Lightfoot has graciously invited CNN into her life, into her pain so that you can, in her own words, as she told me, share her son with you, the man that she still calls baby.
Stay with us, because we are expecting to get some pictures from Anthony's military funeral that, like I said, is still taking place at Arlington National Cemetery. We have several crews there taking pictures of the ceremony, respectfully of course. They should come in any moment. And when they do, I am going to share them with you throughout this show and as well as the rest of the week exclusively.
Now, let me let you know what else we are doing for you. There is information that we have now confirmed that, in fact, the two journalists we have been covering have been pardoned by Kim Jong-il after talking to former President Bill Clinton. We are hoping to be able to get some information as to what, where this story will go next, whether they are going to be coming home any moment now, what their condition is.
We are working to get this information for you. We are going to hit a break. And when we come back, we will be joined by a representative from the White House who hopefully will be able to fill in some of the questions for us. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. We have just gotten these pictures now. This is the burial of Anthony Lightfoot at Arlington National Cemetery. I haven't seen these pictures. I am looking at them for the very first time. The family, Ms. LyVonne Lightfoot was gracious enough. She is there. I think you see her right there on the right of the screen -- to let us be there with her.
We have several photographers there. They are taking video. But we are not able to bring you the video right away because the ceremony is just now concluding. But we asked them to also have cameras on hand and take stills. This is the very first still that we have been able to get back of him being entered.
Do we have another picture, Michael? There is another one as well. Again, the video of Anthony Lightfoot, PDC, that's the moment there -- thanks, Michael, that is the moment there the mom is handed the American flag in honor of her son's sacrifice.
She, by the way, was a Gulf War vet as well. She was in Desert Storm, she's a 22 year vet. But she said it was her son's decision to go into the military, not hers. So there you go once again, the very latest pictures of this burial at Arlington National Cemetery. As it happens, we will continue to share that with you.
And when we come back, we have more information on that pardon by Kim Jong-il of the two journalists, Euna Lee as well as Laura Ling. We are all over this story. Obviously, a lot is going on today and we are following it for you as best we can. New information coming in. Stay with us. Plus, your comments as well when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here we go. So many of you have been touched by that story that we were touched by as well, the burial of Anthony Lightfoot, which we are still covering for you.
Let's go to our Twitter board if we possibly can and we'll see some of the comments that are coming in now fast and furious. "Every returning dead soldier deserves the dignity for their sacrifice. Thank you."
Under that, it says, "There are lots of stories like that out there, Rick."
And then look at this one. "This story has me crying, Rick, because I have seen this too much in Kabul and Mosul in the past." We have got a lot of comments like that from people who say they were touched by that story, by the effort of that honorable family.
I want to do something now. I want to bring in Elaine Quijano. Elaine Quijano is at the White House, she's been following what has been going on with the release of the two journalists. Any new details? Anybody at the White House saying anything new about this since we first learned about it at the top of the hour?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I wish they were. The White House is being very cautious. Obviously, this is a sensitive situation and White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said a short time ago in the briefing that it is a very sensitive situation. What he did address though was the issue of how these negotiations involving former President Bill Clinton might play out when it comes to broader concerns here about North Korea and nuclear ambitions. Here's what Robert Gibbs had to say on that front.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I do think we have looked at, as I said a few months ago, we are not equating, we are not -- we look at detainment and other issues separate. We always hope that the North Koreans would look at it the same way. That's how this administration has approached this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Whether or not the North Koreans actually do see it the same way, unclear at this time. But there you have it, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, Rick, reiterating the U.S.'s position that it hopes North Korea will keep these issues separate. The U.S. all along has said look, the detention of these journalists is a humanitarian issue that should be kept separate from the nuclear issue. Rick?
SANCHEZ: All right, Elaine Quijano, thanks so much for joining us with that information.
And now we might be able to get some more information, I guess some would consider this right to the source. Ray LaHood is the secretary of transportation. He is joining us now.
You know, this is, I think in most people's eyes, fantastic news, that the former president was able to go in there and negotiate this release, if indeed that's what happened. I imagine at this point, you guys aren't releasing a lot of information because until they are on the plane and on the way back, you are afraid you might blow this, right?
RAY LAHOOD, SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Well this is out of my lane, Rick. I will be happy to talk to you about trains, planes and automobiles, but I will wait to let the White House talk to you about these other issues. I'm thrilled for the young ladies and also for their families. SANCHEZ: I do know that you have been particularly keen lately, talking about what is going on with the economy. And you have been very much tied to this Cash for Clunkers program. You know, this is interesting, because this thing has really essentially worked and it's not every day that people can universally say here is something that seems to be working that came out of Washington. Is there any other way that we can look at this other than the fact that it's been good for Detroit, certainly good for those -- for those car dealerships that suddenly are busy again and a lot of Americans are getting their bucks worth in being able to get some new cars, right?
LAHOOD: You hit it right on the head, I couldn't say it any better than you have. It is a win for people that want to buy a new car. It is a win for our economy. It is a win for those who say we need more fuel-efficient cars on the road. Eighty percent of the vehicles coming in are trucks or SUVs and the lion's share going out the door are more fuel-efficient cars.
So it is a win, win, win, win, all the way around, particularly for our economy, for salesmen, for scrap yards, for people who own dealerships that have been hard hit for many, many months. This is a huge lift for the American economy and we can say that this part of the stimulus has worked. And we all ought to be proud to be able to say that.
SANCHEZ: I guess the question is the Senate going to go along with this? Because if they do, then we'll be able to continue the program for quite some time. What is your take on that? What are you hearing?
LAHOOD: I'm hearing out of the majority leader's office, Senator Reid, they have the votes to pass this $2 billion, which the House passed last week, which will continue the program and allow Americans to continue to shop for new fuel-efficient automobiles.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
LAHOOD: And again, a continuation of a big boost to our automobile economy.
SANCHEZ: Well, you're saying it is going to happen. We will be following to see if it does. Again, a deadline really has to be some time by Friday.
LAHOOD: Right.
SANCHEZ: We will be following that, sir and we thank you for being so honest, for taking us through this conversation.
LAHOOD: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: All right, we will be right back. Stay with us. Your comments as well as the very latest on all of these breaking stories that we're following for you. Don't you know it, just as you get ready to go on the air with a planned newscast, everything else comes in and we ad lib. We will be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, thanks so much. You know what, so many of you have been talking about what is going on today. And of course the very latest information is that in fact the two journalists from North Korea have been pardoned. We at CNN confirmed that about 45 minutes ago. We still haven't confirmed though is when they will be coming home, where they have been held, what their condition actually is at this point, whether they have had a chance to talk to their families yet.
We do understand they did have a chance to talk earlier today with the former president before the announcement that they have, in fact, been pardoned. And we have been getting a lot of tears -- a lot of comments from you on the Twitter board, both good and bad. Oh, and there is this also. There is one more thing.
Yesterday in trying to defend the meaning of Senator John McCain's statement about the Republican Party being in what he called a deep hole, those were John McCain's words, with Hispanics and needing to recruit more Hispanics, as he is telling the Republican Party, I paraphrased to my colleague Roland Martin that McCain had said the party needs to recruit competent Hispanics. I just want to be fair about this, right? He didn't use the word competent when he said that. What McCain said that was the party needs us to recruit Hispanics but not just because they are Hispanic. Possibility the same meaning but not the same word. We just thought we would let you know.
Here is Suzanne Malveaux now in for Wolf Blitzer for "The Situation Room."
