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Shoving and Shouting and Health Care Town Halls; White House Reaction to Jobless Numbers; Window Washer in Peril; Grading the President; July Jobless Rate Falls to 9.4 Percent; Program Targeting Street Violence in Baltimore; Health Care Fraud Drives Up Prices; Battle over Soldiers' Flame-Resistant Uniforms; Two Doctors Cut Costs to Give Patients More Time

Aired August 07, 2009 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, August could be a make-or-break month for health care reform, and it's shaping up to be a long, hot month for lawmakers on summer break. The health care debate is boiling over at town hall meetings all around the country. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(AUDIENCE YELLING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Lines are long, tempers, they were short at a forum in Michigan yesterday. Democratic Congressman John Dingell could barely get a word in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody back up!

(AUDIENCE SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Yes. Some town hall meeting in Tampa, Florida, well, it turned into a shoving-and-shouting match when an overflow crowd tried to get into the meeting room.

Beau Zimmer of our affiliate WTSP has more on how the meeting turned to mayhem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEAU ZIMMER, REPORTER, WTSP (voice-over): Hundreds lined up, and at 6:00 it started off as a town hall meeting about an important issue.

REP. KATHY CASTOR (D), FLORIDA: When it comes to your health care...

ZIMMER: But before Congresswoman Kathy Castor could even begin getting through opening remarks, the protests began. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's my choice!

ZIMMER: In fact, things quickly turned violent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get off of me!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody back up!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get away!

ZIMMER: Freelance videographer Mark Bishop was among those roughed up.

MARK BISHOP, FREELANCE VIDEOGRAPHER: That's the most violence anyone ever has gotten towards me, and it was surprising, to say the least.

ZIMMER: Outside, hundreds more were locked out as the children's board building quickly filled to capacity. People banged on windows and doors and became so loud the congresswoman was eventually escorted out.

Some argue it was mainly health care reform supporters allowed inside the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone's voice should have the right to be heard, and tonight was not a good example of that. There were a lot of people that were shut out of tonight's meeting.

ZIMMER: But others who attended said many were so outspoken, it became impossible to have a discussion at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They think they're exercising their right to free speech, but they're only exercising the right to disrupt civil discourse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, I feel like a lot probably wasn't accomplished tonight. You know, somewhere in a lot of the screaming back and forth, no one got heard.

ZIMMER: In the end, there were only minor injuries reported. Police did their best to allow free speech, but eventually were forced to call the meeting short, ordering everyone, go home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right. So, there is a lot of debate about whether all the health care outrage is genuine, or whether it's being orchestrated.

CNN political editor Mark Preston joins us now from Washington to talk about that.

So, Mark, any truth to the claims that the GOP is stoking the flames here, or is there a real divide when it comes to health care reform? MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, you know something, Betty, clearly there's a divide when it comes to health care reform. CNN's latest poll, the CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll, shows that Americans think that President Obama's approach to health care right now, he only receives a C minus. You know, as more and more details came out about the health care bill, people seemed to get angrier and angrier.

Now, we do see these very violent images on television, we have seen them for the past week right now. But we should note that it's not just conservatives or Republicans who are at these health care rallies, it's also Democrats or liberals who are really advocating and talking about the issue and getting loud about it. It just seems that so far, the conservatives have been the loudest.

NGUYEN: Yes. And when it comes to those allegations about the GOP, the criticism, my question is this -- what is so wrong with providing people with talking points if there are some real questions and some real concerns? I mean, shouldn't those be asked?

PRESTON: Yes, absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with that.

You know, the question really is, is it orchestrated, is it organic, is it real? And both sides do this.

Before Democrats left here in Washington, before they went back to their districts, they were giving talking points. Before Republicans left, they were giving talking points.

Now, the rub is, when outside groups distribute talking points to constituents and instruct them how to act at these meetings, that's where, really, the big rub is on this. So, again, it's a very delicate situation, Betty, because, you know, Democrats and Republicans both have a lot to lose because of this. You know, and let me just tell you, very quickly, for Democrats to call people mobs and inciting mobs...

NGUYEN: That's strong language.

PRESTON: Strong, and it's very dangerous, because these people are voters. But, again, as we saw from some of those images that you've just shown, to have images of Nazis and to have very strong language and violence, doesn't help the Republican Party.

NGUYEN: Yes, no doubt.

But let's look back at this. I mean, whether it's the Clinton administration, other administrations, why has this country had such a difficult time with passing health care reform?

PRESTON: It really is. It's a question that befuddles the mind, actually. But really, I think it comes down to this -- it comes down to money.

It's extremely expensive in order to insure everybody. But then you have to stop and say, morally, should we be doing so, especially such as a nation as the United States? And that is the really big fight right now. You know, do we have the money to do so?

And given the amount of money that has been spent so far by the Obama administration to help the banking industry, the housing industry, the auto industry, a lot of people have questions if this is the right time.

NGUYEN: Well, here's a question for you, and I don't know if you can answer it, but I'm still going to ask it. How close do you think that this final bill will be to the kind of health care reform President Obama is envisioning?

PRESTON: There will certainly be parts of it, if we do see a health care bill. But I think at the beginning of the year, when they were talking about universal health care, and it was going to get through and there wouldn't be that many problems, and it's going to be exactly what the White House wanted, I think we're at a different stage right now. There's been too many questions asked. There's been too much money spent. And I think if there is going to be a deal struck, it's going to have to include some Republican compromise.

NGUYEN: All right. Let's talk about this for a second. Florida Senator Mel Martinez announcing today -- at least we're expecting to hear him say that he is going to resign.

What's going on there?

PRESTON: Well, Betty, let me just tell you, it's a story, of course, we broke first here on CNN. Myself and Rick Dabella (ph) found out that Mel Martinez has decided to resign.

He was going to retire anyway, so when you look at the numbers going into the 2010 elections, that's not going to change much. But what the dynamic in Florida is, who exactly is Charlie Crist, the Florida governor, going to appoint? The interesting note about that is that Charlie Crist himself is running for that seat in 2010, so we'll have to see if, in fact, he wants to appoint himself, which is probably unlikely, or if he'll put a placeholder in that seat.

NGUYEN: All right.

CNN political editor Mark Preston.

As always, we appreciate your insight. Thank you.

PRESTON: Thanks, Betty.

NGUYEN: You know, August is shaping up as a make-or-break month for health care reform. So, if you had the chance to talk face to face with your congressman or senator, what would you say?

Tell us about it at our blog. Go to CNN.com/newsroom. We're going to share some of your comments a little bit later, right here in the NEWSROOM.

A big surprise. The unemployment picture improved in July. Yes. The jobless rate inched down to 9.4 percent. It is the first decline in 15 months. Analysts predicted unemployment would actually move higher. Despite the improving jobless numbers, though, the economy, well, it still lost 247,000 jobs in July. But that is just a third of the job losses of last January.

So, let's see if those jobless numbers have put a smile on the president's face. He is scheduled to make remarks about the economy in the next hour, and CNN White House Correspondent Dan Lothian joins us now.

Dan, what's the reaction there to these jobless numbers?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Probably a smile on the president's face. They're not celebrating here, but they're certainly encouraged by those numbers. But Press Secretary Robert Gibbs pointed out that this is just more evidence that the economy has pulled back from the brink or the edge of a depression.

Having said that, what he did point out is he still believes that the unemployment numbers will at some point hit double digits. To kind of put it all in context, he used the analogy of a patient who was facing a life-threatening condition. He said that patient has been stabilized, but will have good days and bad days.

The bottom line, though, for the administration, as we heard from the labor secretary earlier on CNN, is that they feel that it's moving in the right direction. They are pleased but not satisfied.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILDA SOLIS, LABOR SECRETARY: This is a very high number of people that are still unemployed, but you also have to recall that when we inherited this recession, we came in with well over 700,000 people who had lost their jobs. Now it's been almost cut in half, but that's still not good enough. The president and I are not satisfied with seeing one job lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LOTHIAN: And you hear that time and time again from the president himself and his spokesman here at the White House when asked if, you know, there are any -- are they encouraged at all by these numbers that they're seeing, where the economy might be getting better? And they always say that the president is not satisfied and will not be satisfied as long as there is someone out there looking for a job, who needs a job and doesn't have one yet -- Betty.

NGUYEN: All right. And speaking of something that might also keep a smile on the president's face, that being the Cash for Clunkers. It got a little extra cash.

LOTHIAN: It really did. This was a program that was more popular than anyone expected, a chance for people to trade in those gas-guzzlers for energy-efficient vehicles and get some cash in return for it to help them buy that new vehicle.

It was funded with $1 billion, and there was concern that that billion was running out because it was so popular. Well, Congress acted, and this morning the president signed an extension, an additional $2 billion.

The White House here believing that this is not only a good program for the environment, but also good for the economy, because it's more business at these small auto companies. The auto suppliers are also getting some jobs out of this. So, they believe jobs are being created by this, while at the same time the environment is being helped out.

NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Dan Lothian joining us live from the White House.

Dan, thank you.

LOTHIAN: OK. My pleasure.

NGUYEN: Well, once again, President Obama is set to make his remarks on the economy at 1:30 Eastern, and CNN will bring that to you live when it happens.

Fanning the flames over "Made in America." Find out why a fight over where material is made could impact the safety of U.S. troops.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: We have some really compelling video just into CNN. Take a look at this out of Long Beach, California. This is a window washer, in fact, who is hanging from a safety rope because part of the scaffolding you see right there, one side of it has given way.

Now, we understand there were in fact two window washers. And you can see some of the emergency crews. That being the Long Beach Fire Department.

They have actually rescued one of the other window washers. And we see a firefighter trying to go down right now to save the person who is hanging right now, really, by nothing more than a rope. It's a safety rope. But the scaffolding if we can -- we have no control over these pictures, but below that firefighter who's trying to scale part of this building right here, he is headed down right now.

And you can't see from this vantage point how tall the building is, but no doubt it is a frightening sight. It's something that they have to move with extreme caution.

And this window washer, in fact, was toward the very top of that building. It just gives you an indication of, in fact, some of the dangers that could take place.

As you look outside that crystal clear window and see the view, well, someone had to get up there and clean it, and that guy is one of them. And he is just in a precarious position right there, as part of the scaffolding there, the scaffolding rig -- I guess that's what you would call it -- has given way. But, wow, look at the work of the Long Beach Fire Department there, where one firefighter has pretty much kind of scaled down that building. He's hooking up to the window washer.

I'm being told right now by my producer that we have Joshua Johnson on the phone right now with the Long Beach Fire Department.

Joshua, we're looking at some incredible pictures right now of a rescue that's taking place. Give us an indication of exactly what happened.

JOSHUA JOHNSON, LONG BEACH FIRE DEPARTMENT: I'm sorry, are you talking to me?

NGUYEN: Yes. Can you hear me?

JOHNSON: OK. Sorry about that.

Yes. Basically, what they are doing right now is one of our firefighters has tied himself on top of the top of the building, and we're trying to get that second individual that was trapped on the scaffolding there.

So, basically what he's doing right now at this point is tying the individual off to the harness. The harness that the firefighter is wearing is a very, very well-designed harness to where you can attach the person being rescued to your harness of the fireman.

So, basically, what they'll do is tie him off, make sure he's tied up completely. And then what they'll do is, on the top of the roof, they'll pull him -- both of them to -- back up to the top of the roof and check out the individual out and make sure he's OK.

NGUYEN: Yes. That's what we're watching that right now. They're starting to hoist him up. He has been attached to that mechanism that you were talking about that is very strong and is going to be able to get him to the top of the roof of the building.

We can't really see from this vantage point, Joshua. Do you know how tall this building is?

JOHNSON: It's 14 stories.

NGUYEN: OK. So, they were quite a ways up there really toward the top of the building.

JOHNSON: Correct. Now you can see now they're pulling him up right now.

NGUYEN: Yes, they are pulling him up right now. That has just to be a frightening sight, when part of the scaffolding gives way and you are just hanging there.

Do you know how long they had been hanging there before you guys were able to get on the scene? JOHNSON: We got the call at 8:30 this morning, so, you know, it's been about 45 minutes. They were able to pull up the first individual roughly about a half hour ago.

And this -- it's a good sign to show that he is alert. It appears he doesn't really appear to be injured in any way. But, you know, once he gets to the top, we'll check him out, calm him down, and then we'll take him to a local area hospital and get him checked out. And then, you know, they'll have to figure out a way the company will get that scaffolding taken care of.

NGUYEN: Yes. It looks like at this point right now that they are about to raise him up. There he goes, as the firefighters working very hard to get him to safety at the top of that building right there.

Any idea, Joshua -- again, we have Joshua Johnson on the phone with the Long Beach City Fire Department -- what happened, what caused this scaffolding to give way?

Yes, there he is on top of the building right now, just for our viewers who are watching. He has made his way to safety, thank goodness.

JOHNSON: And that's a great sign. And in answer to your question, no, I do not know how the scaffolding got loose.

NGUYEN: Is this something that happens, I mean, fairly often? I've never seen a rescue like this.

JOHNSON: You know, I was asked that question. I did an interview with (INAUDIBLE) this morning, and she asked the same question. And I have seen a couple of times on TV myself. This is my first live experience with one.

But they happen from time to time. It's unknown as to why the scaffolding fell. It can be many different reasons, but the main thing is that we got both individuals safe, and now we're going to check them out.

And, you know, we have our urban search and rescue team which were able to tie up all the appropriate ropes. They're very highly trained individuals that train for this all the time in this particular instance. And this is one of those instances where it doesn't happen all the time. So, all that training comes into play here, and they're able to get the individuals up, and then now we'll get our firefighter back up. And we'll check those guys, both the individuals out, and make sure that they're OK.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's what they're doing right now. It appears that they are checking them out right now.

Boy, those are some lucky guys, and they were in quite a precarious situation for several minutes. It probably felt like several hours, perhaps even days, when you're hanging from a safety rope and nothing but 12, 13 stories below you. But Joshua Johnson with the Long Beach Fire Department, joining us live by phone to give us indication as to what happened there. But the good news right now is it appears that both window washers have made to it safety on top of that building.

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: President Obama is marking his 200th day in office today, and we asked you to grade the president's performance so far.

Well, the report card is in. And as CNN's Tom Foreman reports, health care reform and the economy hurt the president's grade.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We told you how to vote yesterday, and here are the results.

For the general handling of the economy, a C minus almost all across the country. It's not looking very good. I'm going to circle an area here, and I want you to pay attention because this area really matters. I'll tell you why in a minute.

But first, let's look at really what happened that made such a big difference in all this. And I want to go to a particular date. If we go up here to the 17th, listen to what the president was saying about health care reform.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So this is what health insurance reform will mean for the average American. It will mean lower costs, more choices, and coverage you can count on.

FOREMAN: He has been trying to sell that message over and over and over again. But if you go back here to 167, this is part of the problem. Here's Joe Biden talking about the overall economy.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was a misreading of just how bad an economy we inherited. Now, that doesn't -- I'm not laying assignment -- it's now our responsibility. So the second question becomes -- did the economic package we put in place including the recovery act, is it the right package given the circumstances we're in?

FOREMAN: So those were the messages that were coming out of the White House. But this was the result. They got hammered on the economy. And, look at this.

On health care, they really got hit and they got hit by this part of the country. Why? That's part of the older part of the country. More people here are older than elsewhere. These are people who gave them much better ratings earlier on.

When the question was how do you handle swine flu, they like it. There are older people who want to care on that. And in the event, the combination of health care and overall economy really beat them up quite badly. And when you move down the line here to the overall ranking of President Obama, you see what happens -- he winds up with a C minus even in his home state of Hawaii down here.

The best he can do is a C plus, not the kind of ratings he wants, especially when you look back 100 days and you see back then, much, much, much higher ratings all the way around.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right. So here's how you can go in and see how everything fared in this "National Report Card." And you just go to CNN.com/reportcard and it's going to pull up this map, as Tom Foreman showed you. And then on the map you can go to the individual states.

So, when it comes to the economy, see here the topics at the top. The economy, the president, say in Texas, got a C minus. But if you go to right here in Georgia, he got a C.

Now, if you want to know about some of the other issues, you can, for example, click on this little link right here and it will tell you how the Republican leadership did in Congress. And then, of course, you can go to the different states and it will give you the average there.

But the overall average was a D.

We even checked out the media and how we scored in this report card. And not so great. We got a D average, too.

But if you go to, again, all the different states, you can see how they fared. And all of it is at your fingertips at CNN.com/reportcard. So, you can check it out for yourself.

Well, the surgeon says it's time to treat street violence like a disease. His solution? Give victims the VIP treatment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, CNN is your source for money news, and check out CNNMoney.com, in fact, for the latest financial news and analysis.

And Wall Street, though, you know, we got those new employment numbers and they're not as bad as people expected, 9.4 percent for job losses. And that is helping the Dow today. It is up 130 points. The NASDAQ, not doing too bad either, up 30 points.

We'll keep an eye on Wall Street for you.

In the meantime, though, experts say the improving job loss picture is the strongest signal yet that the recession is easing up.

Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis is in New York. She joins us now to break it all down for us. Hey there Gerri.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Hey, Betty. Good to see you. Yes, these are amazing numbers really. The markets and Wall Street had been expecting a July jobless rate of 9.6 percent, they got 9.4. This was much improved over June, which was 9.5, and a 26-year high. We even had a revision of payroll data, June data, of course, almost 500,000 jobs lost in the original report. They've scaled that back to 443,000 jobs lost.

And look how good it gets for July, 247,000 jobs lost. Now obviously you want to see this number go away. You don't want to see job losses at all, but it looks like the trend is in the right direction, which you can see easily from that graphic right there.

I want to drill down just a little bit into these numbers, Betty, and talk to you about the sectors that are losing jobs and where we find jobs growing. Now, as you can see from this graphic right here, construction jobs falling, pretty dramatically, the worst category in the group, down 76,000. Manufacturing, you've been seeing the stories out of Detroit, jobs on the showroom floor, down 52,000. Retail, people aren't going to the mall, down 44,000. Financial activities, we know Wall Street is in the doldrums. We lost another 13,000 jobs there last month.

Now, you are seeing jobs expand in health care, 20,000 jobs added just last month. Depths of the recession, health care initiatives out there, people are actually hiring doctors, nurses, orderlies, you name it, which is great news. And there was other good news as well in terms of the workweek. People were working a little bit longer.

That's something we like to keep an eye on, because as you know, a lot of employers out there, Betty, have cut jobs. They've also scaled back hours, and they've asked people to take furloughs. So, as the economy improves, we'll see those people starting to work more hours, full time. And then at some point, we'll really get to adding employees in the mix, and that's what we're really looking for. That will be a real sign that the economy is firing on all cylinders.

But as you know, this particular economic indicator, the jobless rate, is a lagging indicator. It's the last thing to turn up in a recovery. And, of course, as you know, we're expecting that recovery to come -- full recovery to come next year. Betty?

NGUYEN: All right, Gerri Willis, as always, we appreciate it.

WILLIS: My pleasure.

NGUYEN: So, how do you think the president is handling the economy? We've been asking you, the viewer, and the number of responses, they are off the charts. CNN's deputy political director, Paul Steinhauser, joins me now from Washington. Paul, what grade are Americans giving the president when it comes to the economy?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good stuff here, Betty. You know, we did that online poll. We also did a scientific poll by CNN and the Opinion Research Corporation. Take a look at these results, very interesting stuff. Overall grade for the president for everything, a "C" plus. But specifically on the economy, you can see it's a little bit lower there, a "C." And that "C" that the president got on the economy in our poll is the same he got at the 100-days mark. So, you can see Americans think that he's doing maybe a little less well on the economy than he is overall. Betty?

NGUYEN: So, who do Americans blame when it comes to the recession?

STEINHAUSER: I guess this is a bit of good news you would think for the White House. Take a look at these numbers here from our same CNN/Opinion Research Corporation national poll, 44 percent of the people we questioned they say they blamed Republicans and most likely the previous administration. Only 23 percent blaming Democrats as you can see right there, about one in four Americans say, you know what, both parties are to blame. Betty?

NGUYEN: Paul Steinhauser, as always, we appreciate it.

STEINHAUSER: Thank you.

NGUYEN: See you tomorrow.

In the meantime, jobs, cash for clunkers, health care, lots of issues affecting "Your Bottom Line." Do you have questions about them? I'm sure you do. We are getting answers, in fact, for you from the vice president's chief economic adviser, that being Jared Bernstein. In fact, just over an hour ago Bernstein told our own Ed Henry that the White House still expects the unemployment rate to reach 10 percent. We really shouldn't start celebrating today's number that much, according to them. Send us your questions to mailtothechief@cnn.com or tweet us at Kyracnn. That's in the 1:00 p.m. Eastern hour.

Hillary Clinton's 11-day trip to Africa. It's what we're talking about today in our "What Matters" segment in partnership with "Essence" magazine. The U.S. Secretary of State arrived in South Africa last night on the second leg of her seven-nation African tour. And she met today with South Africa's foreign minister. Clinton urged South Africa to keep the pressure on Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe to stick with a power-sharing agreement reached last year. Clinton later called on South Africa to help lead the continent out of its financial mess. She also met with former president Nelson Mandela.

A new federally funded ad campaign is encouraging more black families to adopt from foster care. The Donaldson Adoption Institute says one third of America's half million foster children are black. And black children are less likely than whites to be adopted. The new ads out this fall are aimed at changing all of that. The tag line, quote, "You don't have to be perfect to be a perfect parent."

I want to turn now to a startling statistic. Census figures show gun violence kills more than 8,000 African-Americans a year. That's about 23 every single day. It is a vicious cycle, but as CNN's Don Lemon found, it's one that can be broken when the right people get involved.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where I used to get busy at, you know?

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Adrian Barnes admits he was a bad boy on Baltimore's street. He says he even shot a man.

ADRIAN BARNES, FORMER VIP CLIENT: I used to hustle drugs right here. This is where I got shot.

LEMON: Barnes became a victim of the violence he'd inflicted with two bullets in his leg.

BARNES: When I was lying there, I was just thinking about all the stuff I did to people. And I had to learn from my lessons.

LEMON: Recovering in Maryland's Shock Trauma Center, he had a conversation that changed his life.

BARNES: Basically, back then he worked for the program, asked me if I want to change my life. And I thought about it. I was like, yes, because I really am tired, you know, living the way I'm living.

LEMON: The program Barnes is referring to is the violence intervention program, or VIP. Surgeon Carnell Cooper started it after he saw the same shooting and stabbing victims again and again.

DR. CARNELL COOPER, FOUNDER, VIP: We all get frustrated with seeing patients that we worked so hard to save then come back. I grew up in a neighborhood in South Carolina. These guys were the same, just like me. I did not feel that these were individuals who were so steeped in that way of life that we could not turn them around.

LEMON: Cooper treated street violence as a disease.

COOPER: We need to have the same approach to violence that we had with heart disease and smoking. And embrace this problem of violence in our kids, because they're dying.

LEMON: Cooper's cure? A combination of drug rehab, education, and jobs.

COOPER: The patients who got our intervention were much less likely to be convicted.

LEMON: Patients like Adrian Barnes, who turned his life around.

BARNES: All you need is somebody to help you, show you that they care about you. The program's been real good to me. They never turned their back on me.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Well, one reason health care is so expensive in this country is fraud. We'll show you what happened when one patient discovered her own doctor was cheating the system.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Can you hear me now? There you go. As students head back to school, the Obama administration is releasing new guidelines to stem the spread of the so-called swine flu which is the H1N1 virus. And the guidelines remind students and teachers to stay home when they're sick. They also loosen the rules a little bit, advising parents to keep infected children out of school for only 24 hours after a fever has been eliminated instead of seven days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNIE DUNCAN, EDUCATION SECRETARY: I have two young children, a second grader and kindergartner going back to school, and I think I want what every parent wants, we want our children to be safe, first and foremost, and we want to keep them learning. So, we're really asking schools to take a tiered response. If there are just a handful of children who are sick, we want those parents to keep those children home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Government officials have warned of a possible resurgence in the h1n1 virus this fall.

One of the forgotten issues in this health care debate over reform, that being fraud. Senior correspondent Allan Chernoff reports on just how widespread this problem really is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The problem is fraud, tens of billions of dollars is lost to health care fraud every year. It's a major reason our health insurance premiums keep rising and Medicare and Medicaid are draining the treasury. Yet for all the talk in Washington of controlling health care costs, the issue of fraud is getting little attention.

(voice-over): Theresa Langloy knew her podiatrist was cheating Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan when she read her insurance statement. Dr. Jeffrey Cook had billed thousands of dollars to surgically remove dozens of warts when Theresa only had a discolored toenail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like robbery. I mean, they were overcharging for a procedure that wasn't done.

CHERNOFF: Theresa called Blue Cross, which investigated. Ultimately, leading to the arrest and imprisonment of podiatrist Jeffrey Cook. Health care fraud perpetrated by doctors, pharmacists, even organized crime gangs is rampant. A senate investigation found Medicaid in recent years paid nearly 500,000 claims to people posing as doctors who were dead. Such fraud costs every American. It drives up prices for medical insurance, treatment, and drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's just a domino effect that ends at the consumer. Somebody's got to reimburse for it. Somebody's got to fund the debt. And ultimately it gets passed down.

CHERNOFF: That's why major health insurance companies have special investigations unit to weed out fraudulent claims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to get that money back.

CHERNOFF: Other investigators estimate that fraud accounts for a minimum of three percent of all health care spending, $72 billion a year. Other experts say the figure is more than three times that, topping $200 billion.

OBAMA: If we do not reform health care, your premiums and out-of-pocket costs will continue to skyrocket.

CHERNOFF: President Obama warns health care reform is needed to get medical costs under control. But one of the biggest culprits, fraud, gets little mention in the congressional reform effort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are certainly aware of this problem. They don't seem to know the magnitude or the seriousness. They don't seem to be acting with the kind of urgency that I would like.

CHERNOFF: The health reform bill, approved in the House, 1,018 pages long, devotes only 40 pages to the issue of fraud. It and bills in the Senate would add $100 million a year to combat fraud, waste, and abuse. That's the amount of health care fraud occurring in this country every 12 hours, using the most conservative estimates.

(on camera): That level of corruption is one of the big reasons our medical bills rise steadily every year. Yet the big push in Washington has been to provide health coverage for more Americans. Experts warn if fraud isn't addressed more aggressively, American taxpayers will be paying billions more than needed to provide health insurance for those who don't have it. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right, so, here are some of the responses that you have sent in to our health care blog question. What would you say if you could tell your congressman face to face about health care reform?

And this person right here says, "I'd ask my congressman why can't I be on your health care plan? After all, I'm paying for it." That coming from Stephen Paul. Also we got this, "I think it is so hypocritical of Republicans to now say it is our right to show dissent for an administration, but when Democrats exercise the same right under the Bush doctrine, we were called terrorists, un-American, and were basically told if you don't like it, leave." That from Margaret.

And quoting here, "People are rising up because they disagree with what our politicians are trying to do, which is push bills down our throats without even knowing how much these bills will cost the American citizen." That from Rob in New York City. And you can send your comments to the cnn.com/newsroom and, of course, we do appreciate them, and we'll continue to read them on the air.

In the meantime, though, will a fight for jobs trump safety for U.S. troops?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, three members of the British military have been killed in Afghanistan. They were members of Britain's parachute regiment. An explosion hit their vehicle in Helmand Province, and a fourth member of the patrol is reported in critical condition.

A made-in-America fight over soldiers' uniforms, it is a life-or- death issue involving flame-resistant material. Pentagon correspondent Chris Lawrence reports on the battle on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An IED explodes. And the only thing protecting American troops from the blazing heat is a special fiber in their uniforms.

SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON, (R) GEORGIA: They have a three to five- second delay before it's penetrated, which gives you time to put the fire out and reduce the burn to the soldiers.

LAWRENCE: But this fireproof rayon is not made in America and may have to be removed from American uniforms in a few years. There's a fight over who gets to make these uniforms. A job worth hundreds of millions of dollars to congressional districts and corporate boardrooms.

SEN. JIM WEBB, (D) VIRGINIA: Some companies like DuPont, for example, have already lost hundreds of jobs.

LAWRENCE: We traveled to North Carolina State University, where the army commissions tests on fabrics from two dozen companies.

ROGER BARKER, NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY: Whether or not if it ignites, if it ignites, how long it continues to burn, the after- flame.

LAWRENCE: The heat and flame simulate fires on the battlefield.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In ordinary clothing a person would be burned in a fraction of a second.

LAWRENCE: Its sensors record how much of that heat hits the manikin's skin.

(on camera): The fire is so intense, you can feel it through the protective glass outside the chamber.

(voice-over): The army said the best fabric was the one from Tenkata. Quote, "They have consistently exceeded our expectations. This has proven to be a valuable fabric and well-received by our soldiers." Tenkata makes the uniforms in Georgia, but imports the fiber from Austria. For all kinds of environmental reasons, that special rayon is not made in America.

ISAKSON: It breathes. It is fire resistant, and it is not matched by any American product.

LAWRENCE: So Congress passed a special waiver, allowing the Pentagon to import outside materials for the uniforms. That waiver expires in a few years. And Congress is debating an amendment to extend it indefinitely. It was just defeated in the senate, with one opponent calling the amendment --

SEN. JIM WEBB, (D) VIRGINIA: An exception that favors foreign suppliers of rayon over our own American companies.

LAWRENCE: Some lawmakers believe American companies will develop a similar fabric by the time the waiver runs out in 2013.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: The efforts are being made in Virginia and South Carolina to produce this product here domestically.

WEBB: This will allow American industry to come in with a whole spectrum of ideas and alternate materials.

LAWRENCE: An American uniform with all-American materials.

ISAKSON: And I understand that from a business standpoint, but from the safety of our troops, if you don't have a superior product, it shouldn't be what our troops are -- our troops should have the very best.

LAWRENCE (on camera): Defeated in the Senate, now the amendment has to be worked out in the House, if the waiver goes away, other companies have three years to come up with a uniform that's just as good. It's only a problem if they can't. Because at that point, you would not be able to import any more of the rayon fiber. Chris Lawrence, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Well, we are learning more about the arrests and the release of those two American journalists in North Korea. Laura Ling and Euna Lee returned to the states on Wednesday, and you're looking at a part of that reunion there. Well, Lisa Ling says that her sister Laura and Euna Lee were kept separate during their nearly five months in detention.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

VOICE OF LISA LING, SISTER OF FREED JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, my sister says that for the most part, they were treated fairly and humanely. And we were very surprised that she and Euna had not seen each other at all. They just found out, when they were reunited, that they were in the same facility but on opposite ends. And we were told by President Clinton that as soon as they got on the plane, they wanted them to rest, because they could tell they were so tired, but the two of them were just chatting away and comparing their experiences and spent a lot of time talking to President Clinton as well.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The journalists had been sentenced to 12 years of hard labor. North Korea released them after a personal plea from former President Bill Clinton.

Well, two doctors team up to take on health care reform, all on their own. And you might like their results.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Two doctors in Rhode Island are putting their own version of health care reform into practice. The bottom line, less bureaucracy, more doctoring. CNN photojournalist Bob Pearly shows us in today's "Health Care in Focus Report."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My partner Lisa and I opened a small practice, I guess it's been a year and a half now. All set? When you walk in the door, you're going to see a big arrangement of flowers where you normally would see a secretary sitting. There's no staff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't have a secretary. We don't have a nurse. We don't have an office manager.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are probably not going to see other patients because we don't double book. We put the bell there because we got tired of hearing people say, "Are you there?" Hi, Jennifer. It's called Ideal Medical Practice. How have you been? Having (INAUDIBLE) patients in your practice allows you to spend more time with them. And the idea is to just lower your overhead. Good. So that you can see fewer patients and spend more time with patients, really focus on quality care. Hello, family medicine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a practice that's been completely redesigned. What can I help you with? We use computers a lot to do what usually a staff does. So, we can click a button and our prescriptions get sent off to the pharmacy, and we can push a button and our referrals get faxed over. Do you have your insurance card? And our computer automatically e-mails patient before their visit so we don't have to call each one to remind them about their appointment. We wanted to be the kind of doctors we were trained to be. We both really value the relationship with our patients.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're doing a home visit for a newborn. He needs a weight check, he's two weeks old. We commute a lot by going to people's homes. Yeah, this is it. Hi.

Hi.

How are you doing?

Not many people do house calls.

OK, big guy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's great for our patients. Lovely for a mom with three toddlers. Big boy!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard to get out the door with a newborn. So, it's nice to have them come to you.

See you guys.

Bye.

Bye-bye.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what the medical assistant usually does. I mean, in the traditional primary care doctor's office, you need to see patients quickly, every 10 minutes in a traditional setting. You should be good to go. And that's I think where you have the doctor holding on to the door handle saying, everything else OK, right? Nothing else is a problem, because you don't have time to address it if you get a positive answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like it was I imagined 60 years ago. It's not a stressful work environment. Kind of fun.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Well, doctors Arena and Denny are part of a nationwide alliance that physicians call Ideal Medical Practice. They call it a Norman Rockwell approach to medicine.

The CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Fredricka Whitfield in for Kyra Phillips.