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North American Leaders' Summit; Politics of Health Care Reform; Journalist Freed by Taliban; Detroit Schools on the Skids
Aired August 09, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Don Lemon.
It is the top of the hour. The presidents of the United States and Mexico are sitting down together this hour for high-level talks on issues that transcend the border. President Barack Obama arrived in Guadalajara within the past hour. Later, he and Mexican Felipe Calderon will be joined by Canadian Prime Minister Steven Harper.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is Guadalajara; she is covering this three-way summit. Suzanne, these three leaders are not going to be together for long. What do they hope to accomplish in this really small amount of time?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well sure, Don. It really is about setting the agenda and not necessarily major announcements coming out of this. But certainly, there are a lot of important topics.
The first one is about the swine flu -- H1N1 virus. That is a big concern. As you know back in April, President Obama visited here in Mexico with his entourage. Had no idea what was percolating. One of his aides even got sick but ended up being ok in the end.
But all of that to say is that the swine flu originating here from Mexico. Since then the U.S. government, the Mexican government and Canadian government all working closely together, to make sure that they are communicating, understanding, just how big this swine flu is going to go, to travel.
They expect that in the fall it's going to be a lot worst. And so they really want to make sure that their efforts are coordinated in fighting that particular disease.
Also, they are going to be talking about the drug cartels and the violence surrounding that; A big, big problem here in Mexico.
There was a sense of really goodwill when President Obama was here before that he took responsibility. The United States saying we are responsible for some of the violence we see across the border because of America's hunger for drugs and because of the guns that are crossing from the United States to Mexico.
But the Mexican officials -- they want to actually see some more aid, some money here. It was more than $1 billion that former President Bush dedicated to fighting the drug effort. It's about $1 million or $100 million rather, that has been delayed in fighting that effort because some members of Congress say, "Look, there are some human rights violations that are taking place inside Mexico from its own military." They don't want those funds to flow to Mexico until that is all resolved. That's another big problem.
And then third, it's the economy. All sides are going to be taking a look at what's happening, and what's the state of the U.S. economy and the recession because it has such a tremendous impact on the Mexican economy as well as the Canadian one -- Don.
LEMON: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux traveling with the President in Mexico. Thank you, Suzanne. She'll be traveling with him throughout this trip and will be reporting for CNN.
Well, you know the summit is taking place against a backdrop of rising violence across Mexico by drug cartels. And CNN's Michael Ware is in Guadalajara. And I asked him about all of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If you look at the grand scheme of this drug war, I mean, it's not about the American border. It starts in the Andes in South America and goes to the streets of the United States and to the streets of Canada.
In the Andes you have production. In Central America you have warehousing and trans-shipment of the drugs. In Panama, you have the money laundering and the banking. And Mexico is the retail end. And by the time you get into the United States that's distribution.
Now, the profit incentive is not going to go away until America's demand for this multi-billion dollar supply of illicit drugs every year perhaps up to $30 billion or $40 billion a year goes away. Until this demand disappears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: CNN's Michael Ware covering the drug war in Mexico for us.
Back here at home, President Obama's other burning issue, dialing back the raucous debates surrounding health care reform. Democrats accused Republicans special interests of lighting the fuse. Critics say the administration is blazing its own trail to socialized medicine.
CNN's White House correspondent Elaine Quijano was in Washington with the very latest -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Don, the White House says it's time to lower the temperature on the health care debate but the heated emotions are far from cooling off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It reads like something that was bought up in the early 1930s in Germany...
QUIJANO: With lawmakers back home, anger is boiling over. Democratic Senator, Tom Harkin got shouted down at this health care meeting in Iowa.
In Georgia, signs the debate is taking a toll.
REP. DAVID SCOTT, (D) GEORGIA: Those of you who are here who have taken and came and hijacked this event that we're dealing with here.
QUIJANO: Democratic Congressman David Scott, lashed out after a doctor from his district asked...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you voting for a health care plan that is shown not to work in Massachusetts? And why are you going to institute that in the state -- in a nationwide...
QUIJANO: At first Scott said he wasn't sure how he would vote then he let loose.
SCOTT: Don't come and take advantage of what these individuals have done. You want a meeting with me on health care, I'll give it to you.
QUIJANO: In Texas for Republican Congressman Michael Burgess.
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS, (R) TEXAS: This doesn't look like a mob. This looks like home.
QUIJANO: The crowd stayed calm. But some of the questions pointed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the Republicans controlled Congress and the Senate, why didn't you introduce and pass health care reform?
QUIJANO: In Austin, supporters of health care reform are getting fired up. This crowd booed as John Cornyn tried leaving after touring a community health clinic.
And more fuel to stilt the fighting.
On her Facebook page Friday, Republican Sarah Palin wrote, "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's death panel so his bureaucrats can decide whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is down right evil."
In his weekly address, President Obama fired back at opponents.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, let me start by dispelling the outlandish rumors that reform will promote euthanasia or cut Medicaid or bring about a government takeover of health care. That's simply not true.
QUIJANO: This week the president heads to New Hampshire for a town hall meeting on health care. Later, he'll visit Montana, home state of Max Baucus, a key Democrat trying to negotiate a deal on health care reform -- Don.
LEMON: Elaine, thank you very much for that.
CNN political editor Mark Preston joins me from Washington to talk more about the Guadalajara summit and the ongoing debate over health care reform now raging here across the U.S.
Let's -- can we talk first Mark, about the drug war that we have been talking about? You heard CNN's Michael Ware and you heard Suzanne Malveaux bring it up. These are very high-level talks.
But what it appears that's needed most there -- and this is just from my estimation -- boots on the ground as Michael said and the demand from the U.S. to stop in order to make any difference.
Does the administration in your estimation in Washington sort of know this or do they have a handle on how to combat this?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, I think that the war on drugs has always been a very tricky situation for any president that has been in office, Don. And of course, these are going to be very high-level talks today and tomorrow about how to combat that.
The fact is, there is an insatiable appetite right here in the United States for drugs, for illegal drugs. And of course, how do we stop this violence in Mexico but also the violence that's spilling over the border -- into these border towns.
I don't personally have an answer for you. I don't know how you do that. And I'm sure that the White House right now itself is trying to figure that out.
LEMON: Yes and then just a couple of days that they're meeting; it's not likely that they're going to figure out the master plan in those days.
Let's talk about issues here in the United States and that's health care, health care, health care. And in those raucous debates that have been turning up.
Here's what I want to know, so far we've seen the Congressmen who have been going in for their Town Hall meetings. We've seen these disruptions and the people who are really passionate about this issue.
In his Town Hall the president has not received this sort of treatment to my knowledge. Do you think that this is going to start to turn up at those town halls that the president gives when returns here on Wednesday?
PRESTON: Yes. The fuse has already been lit, Don. And these raucous Town Halls really did start by interest groups here in Washington trying to rile up some of their supporters to show up at these Town Halls across the country. But the fact is now that a lot of people are watching and a lot of people are weighing in. So it's not just folks who are being instructed what to do and what to say at these Town Halls, but it's also people that are seeing it on TV that are watching our reports, that are watching your local news and saying, you know something "I want to weigh in on this matter, I have an opinion on health care."
And in fact, we even saw just a few hours ago President Obama's political arm sent out an email to 13 million people that said look, "We want you to talk to your Congressmen and Senators and tell them why you want reform." So I suspect that his Town Hall in New Hampshire will be lively, to say the least.
LEMON: Hey, Mark, we're up against a break but I want to get this in. You know -- I think it's ok to be organized; I just think people should be transparent about it and if there is -- no deception saying we are not organized, if you're not.
But it's not all people who are fringe, who are at these debates. And there have been some very intelligent Town Hall meetings where there is no screaming and shouting and people getting arrested.
PRESTON: Yes, and I think it boils down to this. The fact that there has been some pushing and shoving, the fact that we're seeing Nazi symbolism and members hung in effigy and the fact is they are not allowing each other to talk. When people are screaming nothing can be said. So I think that is where the rub is right there.
LEMON: How much do you get accomplished when the whole room is in an uproar? There's not much conversation that goes on.
Ok, Mark, thank you very much.
We're going to dig really down deeper on this health care debate later this hour and those Town Hall meetings. We're going to strip- away the fact from the fiction with Florida's Republican Party Chair, Jim Greer and columnist David Sirota. We're going to have an intelligent conversation on the politics of the health care debate.
What's true, what's false, what do we know, what do we don't know. We're going to do that in about 20 minutes. If you have any questions or any comments make sure you send it at Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com. We'll get them on to those guys and try to answer them.
Meantime, seven bodies and parts of a mangled helicopter have been pulled out of the Hudson River today, a day after a violent midair crash above New York. But the search is ongoing for two more victims, more wreckage and an explanation, really.
Investigators believe a small plane rear ended a sightseeing helicopter just before noon yesterday, sending both plunging into the Hudson River. All nine people onboard died including three teenagers. Now, city leaders and investigators are looking for answers in the air and also in the water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: This is -- may have just been an accident or total tragedy or maybe in fact if we had different procedures you could have prevented it. We've not had very many accidents in the area. The last one that was most noticeable -- notable was the plane putting down in the Hudson River where everybody survived.
In this case we don't think it was survivable from virtually the instant the crash took place. And it's very tragic as you point out.
DEBBIE HERSMAN, CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: During the recovery efforts today they were able to recover most of the helicopter. The helicopter was removed from the water and has been taken to a pier for further examination.
That helicopter was in water that was about 30 feet deep. The divers had extremely challenging conditions with current and visibility. At times the visibility was no more than one foot in front of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And from what happened in the skies to the roads now. Investigators are asking -- and we'll get to that a little bit -- investigators are asking for pictures, videos of yesterday's crash which are seen by thousands on a clear summer day.
Now, let's get to the roads. Four children and three adults are dead after a pickup truck was slammed by a reportedly stolen car. The car was fleeing police in Fresno, California yesterday.
Police say a 3-year-old boy and three girls all younger than eight were thrown from the truck when it was hit by the Dodge Neon. All three people in the car died in the crash after reportedly running two stop signs.
Police say none of the victims was wearing a seat belt. They say the Dodge Neon was carjacked earlier this weekend.
Roaring flames and flashing police lights at a prison in Chino, California where a riot raged for over 10 hours overnight, it is under control tonight. But more than 250 inmates are hurt. A spokesman says 55 of them are seriously injured, hospitalized with slashes and head wounds. About 80 officers helped bring the situation under control early this morning. No employees or officers are hurt. No word on what sparked the violence.
A journalist caught by the Taliban, told he was going to be executed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What are you thinking? Are you afraid?
ZARGHON SHAH, CAPTURED BY TALIBAN: We were just counting our moments towards the death.
GRANT: And it would be a terrible death, what they would do to you?
SHAH: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And the terror doesn't end there. This story will have you on the edge of your seat.
Plus, as always, we want to know what's on your mind, Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com. Send us your comments on health care reform because we're going to have a discussion that you want to be a part of in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A journalist captured by the Taliban is telling his story. He was facing what seemed like certain death until a top Taliban commander intervened, sparing his life. Instead of killing him they decided he could get their message out.
We warn you, you might find parts of this story very disturbing, but there's no doubt it is compelling. And CNN's Stan Grant reports from Islamabad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zarghon Shah is a man who knows just how lucky he is to be alive. A man who has faced the Taliban, was ordered to be executed and gained a chilling insight into the mind of the most wanted militant in Pakistan's violent Swat Valley.
SHAH: And I saw two Talibans standing there with (INAUDIBLE). Then I realized the danger that now we are in the wrong place.
GRANT: It was May this year when the TV reporter and his crew reporting on the Taliban's uprising strayed too far. Captured; Zarghon, his cameraman, and driver, taken to an empty room and put on trial by a Taliban commander.
SHAH: He said, no, you are telling lies. You are the spies and this is because of you that the hell has been unleashed on us. It is you, the media, who is responsible for unleashing this war on us. So I'm not going to spare you. I'll slit your throat.
GRANT: Then an agonizing wait, left alone for five hours with a death sentence on his head.
What are you thinking? Are you afraid?
SHAH: We were just counting our moments towards the death.
GRANT: And it would be a terrible death, what they would do to you? SHAH: Yes. Our bodies hanging headless somewhere in the (INAUDIBLE) Square.
GRANT: There was just a sickening silence, he tells me. Zarghon says he paced the floor unable to look at his colleagues. He wondered who would be first to be killed and he thought of the most precious thing in his life.
SHAH: I was taking the name of my daughter, Neuf (ph), the eldest is Nur (ph), I said, Oh, Nur, I love you.
GRANT: You didn't think you'd see her again?
SHAH: Yes.
GRANT: Zarghon's fate rested in the hands of a man known for his campaign of terror, Taliban leader, Maulana Fazlullah. He had captured the Swat Valley and moved his fighters into territory ever closer to Pakistan's capital Islamabad.
Zarghon was handed a walkie-talkie, on the other end Fazlullah himself. This is the first time this footage has been seen. Zarghon's camera filming the conversation all the while under the watch of a heavily-armed Taliban fighter.
Fazlullah's voice clearly heard agitated and with a message of defiance to Pakistan's army.
"Our women and children have been displaced," he says. "There has been bloodshed. It is an insult to our nation. If they want to fight us then come to our mountains and see our strength and power."
Zarghon can be seen clearly under pressure but with the presence of mind to question the Taliban leader.
"What will end the fighting?" he asks. Fazlullah demanding, "Nothing less than the implementation of strict Sharia or Islamic law, if not," he says, "the Taliban will fight to the death."
"If the army has the ability to fight us," he says, "come to the mountains. The Taliban is in the mountains. We are committed to our cause. Nobody can defeat us."
Yet the hardline Fazlullah did something that still puzzles Zarghon, he freed the TV crew, effectively commuting the execution order. But there was a catch; the Taliban instructed them to film destruction they say was caused by the Pakistan army.
In the distance, you can just hear gunfire and mortar rounds. Taliban fighters are clearly visible. Zarghon reports to camera, taking shelter behind the building. This was meant to be propaganda for the Taliban.
Not long after this was shot, Pakistan's army launched an offensive driving the Taliban from their strong hold. Fazlullah has escaped; despite rumors of being wounded, he continues to command his troops from the mountains.
For Zarghon, doing the Taliban's bidding was the price of freedom. It saved his life and gave him back to his family.
What was it like when you saw your family again after this experience? When you saw your children again?
SHAH: I guess it was -- that was something -- I think the most beautiful gift of my life is that. I returned to my home and I saw my children. Most beautiful.
GRANT: Stan Grant, CNN, Islamabad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: A doctor challenges his Congressman on health care reform and the Congressman challenges right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting. OK. Then do that. Do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So what is going on here? What is in this health care reform bill and what is not? And what's going on in all these town hall meetings? More importantly, is there even a bill to debate, yet. We have some facts for you. No yelling, no screaming, no one getting arrested, we hope.
Things are going from bad to worse in Detroit. First the car companies and now the schools are facing bankruptcy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tropical turbulence is probably a good way of putting it, Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. You know things are all of a sudden really kicking. We have things going on in the Eastern Pacific, we have a little disturbance at the Atlantic, and really incredible pictures from the typhoon in the Western Pacific.
Take a look at this. These are pictures from Taiwan. This was a tropical storm at the time. Look at that. This is a hotel building -- six stories -- that collapsed due to the torrential downpours just eroding, just washing away the soil underneath.
The winds weren't terribly strong but the system just sat there for like 24 hours and literally put down nearly seven feet of rain. And that is not even storm surge. Dozens of people are feared dead with this. The storm also hit parts of China and about a million people had to be evacuated as that typhoon made land fall earlier today. Into the Eastern Pacific -- a little bit closer to home -- there you can see, Hawaii, we have tropical storm Felicia. Felicia is producing winds around 50-miles per hour. We are not real worried about the wind as it approaches Hawaii. It should be weakening and it is going to be bringing in some pretty good waves. We are talking 15- footers likely here tomorrow and into Tuesday. In addition to that, some flood advisories are in effect. We could see several inches of rainfall. If you live in a flood-prone area be prepared with this for Felicia.
Now a little bit farther to the east of here we have a new tropical development. There's tropical depression 9-E, it is forecast to become Guillermo (ph) before tomorrow and that is heading towards the direction of Hawaii as well. So we will have to keep an eye on that.
In the Atlantic, one disturbance coming off the coast of Africa but right now the potential less than 50 percent -- Don.
LEMON: All right, Jacqui. Thank you very much.
First Chrysler, then General Motors. Now the Detroit public school system could be headed for bankruptcy too.
CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow joins me.
Ok, Poppy, so what is going on? Obviously, education should be number one priority.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Yes, you know, I think it is. But it all comes down to money, Don, and just how much money there isn't in a lot of municipalities especially in Detroit right now. We don't want to be alarmists, this is a story we've been following for a while here.
But, yes, if we do see it, the Detroit public school system could be the first ever to file for bankruptcy. And let's show you why. You're dealing with a deficit of $259 million in Detroit.
Take a look at the numbers we'll pull up for you. The graduation rate in Detroit proper -- the latest data shows 58 percent -- that's it -- versus the 76 percent graduation rate statewide. There's a lot of corruption that's been reported in the school system.
And also, you have enrollment that is shrinking very quickly. So when I was in Detroit a few weeks ago, we spent some time with a parent and her daughter. We'll show you what they had to say in a minute but the numbers you are looking at now is the enrollment; Down 44 percent from 2000, Don -- in the last eight or nine years or so versus a population decline of just about 3 percent.
So I spent a day with Fredericka Turner and her daughter, walking around Fredericka's old high school in Detroit. Take a listen to what she told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FREDRICKA TURNER, PARENT: My daughter has never attended any Detroit public schools and it is because of this. As a concerned parent, my daughter would never go to a Detroit public school as of now. Whereas I felt comfortable as a child going to school, I don't feel comfort to allow her to attend a Detroit public school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: And why, it's because you are looking at those pictures of her high school. It is now shut down along with 29 others. The emergency planner there, Robert Bob (ph) just put in place a little over a hundred days ago by Governor Granholm, trying to shut down schools, cutting about 2,400 employees so far, trying to do what they can. And we are following it; we'll see if they do have to file for bankruptcy.
LEMON: All right. Terrible.
Thank you very much, Poppy. We appreciate it.
HARLOW: You're welcome.
LEMON: The fight over the future of health care is getting more heated by the day.
That's a town hall in Tampa; it turned into a free-for-all. Why all the yelling? We are going to cut through all the arguing to give you the real debate.
Plus, the inspiring story of Ruth Simmons, the first African- American woman to become president of an Ivy League school.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. So when it comes to health care, you can call it passion. You can call it conviction. Whatever you call it, the issue has people talking - more like yelling, I should say, trying to be heard. A Georgia congressman is the latest to get caught in a fray at a town hall and it happened just last week. Duffy Dixon from CNN's affiliate WXAI was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are people in this room who are here who do not want anything changed in health care. OK.
DUFFY DIXON, WXAI-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a packed town hall meeting taped by the city of Douglasville, we see Georgia Congressman David Scott and things start to unravel after a question about health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is why are you voting for a health care that has shown not to work in Massachusetts and why are you going to institute that in the state.
SCOTT: Well, I'm not voting on any plan. DIXON: At first Scott appears confused at what bill is being mentioned. Then his response.
SCOTT: First of all, I haven't voted on any bill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you planning on voting for that bill?
SCOTT: I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's an easy out. Do you support a government-run option?
SCOTT: Yes, I do.
DIXON: He keeps going in what some of the crowd later would call a rant.
SCOTT: And I'm listening to my constituents. OK. These are people who live in the 13th congressional district who vote in this district. That's who I've got to respond to. OK. Right. All right. That's everybody with different opinions. So what you've got to understand is those of you who are here who have taken and came and hijacked this event that we are dealing with here, this is not a health care event. You've made the choice to come here.
DIXON: We caught up with Dr. Brian Hill, the doctor who asked about health care. It turns out he is one of Scott's constituents and as far as hijacking the meeting he says he has no plant from the insurance industry or the Republican Party. In fact that is not even the party he belongs to.
DR. BRIAN HILL: I did not go to a meeting to create any problems. I went to the meeting to literally ask a question that I thought was very, very important for my patients.
DIXON: The meeting was primarily about a highway project but later it was opened up for any questions from the crowd. Hill was one of two people who got to ask about health care.
SCOTT: Not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting. OK. Then do that. Do that. But don't - don't come and take advantage of what these individuals have done. You want a meeting with me on health care, I'll give it to you.
DIXON: Dr. Hill says he has called Scott's office, several times.
HILL: I've asked is he going to have health care forums? Is he going to an area where we can actually address his thoughts and express our ideas and our thoughts as well. And I was told no. And that's why I said to myself I then need to go to an area where I have access to him. And we depend on our congressmen to really do what is right for us. And I just don't see that happening.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: All right. That was tame compared to some of the forums that we looked at where tempers really boiled over. One on Thursday in Tampa. Look at that talk about push coming to shove.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please step back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So passions are running high, patience short on supply here. Let's try to separate the fact from the fiction. Really with a couple of passionate guest in their own right. Jim Greer is chairman of the republican party of Florida. He is joining us from Orlando this evening and also best-selling author and syndicated columnist David Sirota joining us from Denver. Thanks to both of you.
So no yelling, no pushing, no screaming and no arrests. But we want to have a serious conversation. I had spoken to some folks and they said there are some folks who are in the know in Washington, there are about 11 different versions of this health care reform bill and no one really knows what's in it. So Mr. Greer, is that part of the problem or part of the reason that people are so upset? We'll talk about the legitimacy of what they are doing but is that part of the problem here?
JIM GREER, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY OF FLORIDA: Well I think every reasonable American knows we have challenges in our health care system. But people want answers as to what President Obama's health care plan is going to do. How much it is going to cost. Who is going to be eligible to have it provided to them. In many cases this can be a life-and-death situation. And when you look at these town hall meetings, people are wanting answers, answers that members of congress can't even give. And they show up because they want to know how it's going to affect them and their life.
LEMON: So, Jim, let me ask you this.
GREER: Sure.
LEMON: And I agree with you. I think and people have the right to protest or to do whatever they want to do. Trust me, I'm on. I believe in that. But when you show up and you just yell questions, and you disrupt things, what do you get accomplished besides getting everyone in an uproar? Do you really get your questions addressed by asking in this manner?
GREER: You're absolutely right, Don. People should show up to these forums and ask questions, seek the answers. There should be no set agenda. There should be no hidden agendas. The people that are organizing these town hall meetings. But we are seeing that across the country that people that show up that are simply seeking information, democrats, independents and republicans, citizens, they show up, they want to get answers and they become frustrated and they become angry when they can't get the simplest of their questions answered -
LEMON: OK.
GREER: Such as who is eligible for it? Who it's going to, how much is it going to cost? You know, this administration, Don, came in to office, saying it was going to focus on the middle class. And ever since it got inaugurated every policy program is going to tax the middle class and is going to hurt the middle class.
LEMON: Jim, hold that thought because I want to let David get in here. We are going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and talk much, much more about these including answering some of your questions. What's in it and taxing the middle class. But David, I want you to respond to that, especially this raucous town hall meetings.
DAVID SIROTA, AUTHOR "THE UPRISING": Well, I think there is a lot of misinformation out there. I think you can certainly say part of the problem is that President Obama hasn't yet been out really on the campaign trail in a sustained way campaigning for this. But I think that is going to change in the coming week. I think the other part of this though is there is a huge amount of misinformation out there by the insurance industry, by corporate lobbyists who in some cases are organizing these protests.
Misinformation saying, you know, Sarah Palin, for instance, on her Facebook page, said there is going to be death panels deciding, you know, basically if grandma dies or doesn't die. I mean, this is completely misinformation. And so I think you got a situation where there is just a huge amount of misinformation swirling out there and part of it, a huge part of it is coming from the insurance industry and from the conservative movement itself.
LEMON: All right. You bring up a good point. I spoke with a doctor, in fact, I have several friends who are doctors. One is an ER doctor and two are general practitioners and he said, the hardest thing for them to get people to understand is that we are paying for health care, anyway, the uninsured, anyway, in higher medical bills, higher insurance premiums. We're already paying for it. So this debate about a single source and people who are happy with their insurance having to pay for it, we are already paying for it. I want you both, both of you to talk about that on the other side of the break. We are answering your questions about health care here. We are having a debate, not a debate, a conversation about this issue - healthcare reform. No yelling, no screaming, the facts on health care reform after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Let's continue our conversation now on the politics of health. We got Jim Greer, chairman of the Republican Party of Florida here and then journalist and author David Sirota. OK. David, so we were talking about this single payer option here. Which is, I think that is what a lot of the debate is about here. Because people want to have their own choice. Now, according to health care professionals they say much of the country is already under a single payer system for insurance coverage. People who receive medical benefits from veterans, people who are on Medicaid, state Medicaid or Medicare and state-run programs and also people who already have insurance, who are already under a single pay system. So then what gives here. Why are people fighting against it?
SIROTA: Well, I think people are worried that there is going to be a "government takeover" of health care. And I think you make to the right point that a lot of people already get their health care through a single payer system. And actually the people who do get their health care through a single payer system tend to be happier with their health care than people who get it through their private insurance. Talking about Medicare recipients, veterans in the VA system and the like. The issue is we are having a debate here about health care insurance financing, not healthcare. And the folks...
LEMON: It is about how to pay for health care, we're not really talking about healthcare reform. We're debating how to pay for health care.
SIROTA: That's exactly right. That is what these bills in Congress are about. What some who opposes the insurance industry, the private insurance industry wants to make this into a debate about is the debate about health care but this is really a debate about how we as a country pay for health care. And of the people who pushing this bill are saying we've got to get the private insurance companies under control, at least under control if not out of the equation?
LEMON: All right. Jim, do you agree with that? The debate here is really how to pay for health care and not really about healthcare reform?
SIROTA: Well, it's always about the money. Ultimately at the end of the day, when you are providing services or products. But I do think ultimately when you are talking about financing, you're going to talk about what services are going to be provided and what the quality of the service that's provided will be. And so it is about the financing but ultimately the discussion will have to go to the quality of the health care and what services are provided and you are going to have to make sure that everyone that is involved in the issue has a seat at the table.
As I said earlier, just like we've done in Florida, will cover Florida. It's got to be a reasonable approach to it where you've got to go back and find out what is working and what is not working and President Obama has not even attempted to do that.
LEMON: Talk to me about - go ahead and make your point, David.
SIROTA: I mean, I disagree that President Obama hasn't brought a lot of people to the table. I think he has tried to bring a lot of people to the table. Some industries like the insurance industry doesn't want to come to the table. And just to the point about choice and services, look, I know a lot of Republican members of Congress say that we don't want "government healthcare" but they seem to be perfectly happy with their own health care. And in fact, the health care that they get is a single payer system. It is one payer, but the members of congress and the congressional staff can choose a private program from within the single payer system.
LEMON: OK. So, listen. Let's talk about this. Again this doctor I spoke to said he was at a town hall and what surprised him or it was a little bit confusing to him that many of the people who are showing up were elderly people or people who, you know, were in wheelchairs, and what have you, had some form of illness and people who were already taking advantage of the system. And he couldn't understand why those people were protesting a system that they were already taking advantage of.
SIROTA: Look, it's a great question. I mean, there was one famous quote at a town hall meeting where somebody said to a member of Congress, get your government hands off my Medicare. I mean, this is absurd. Again, there is a lot of misinformation out there. And I think some people who in the Medicare system are afraid that this is going to mean a decrease in their Medicare coverage when, in fact, what we are actually trying to do is make sure as many people as possible has as good a coverage or better.
LEMON: OK.
David, I think we have a problem with the satellite. Can we just see Jim's satellite, so people will now. We got it back. Jim, we are having satellite issues. The weather, I will have to ask Jacqui. So Jim, I'm going to give you the last point here about people who are already taking advantage of the system. There we go. Jim, can you hear me?
GREER: Yes, I can.
LEMON: OK.
GREER: Well, I think the reason these people are showing up, the elderly people in wheelchairs as you said is they are very concerned about what the future is going to hold for them. They've seen the Obama administration since it took office on January 20th, try and put government into our lives and in almost every aspect. What they don't want is Dr. Pelosi, Dr. Reed and Dr. Obama making medical decisions on what tests they need and what types of insurance they should have. That's what they are concerned about. That is why Americans across this country want answers to President Obama's health care plan.
LEMON: OK. Hey, guys, I have to go. So I really just want a one word answer, if you can. Doctors also say health care costs would go down a lot more if people would come in and get preventive treatment instead of letting it go too far. Go ahead, answer that Jim, real quick, yes or no?
GREER: Yes. Absolutely.
LEMON: OK. Thank you very much, Jim. We'll get rid of Jim now. David, thank you so much. We're having a problem with Jim's satellite. Jim, we are sorry. You never looked better though. You are very handsome like that. And David Sirota, we appreciate it.
SIROTA: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: All righty. Thanks, guys.
Coming up next, you'll meet Ruth Simmons. She rose from poverty and went on to run one of the country's most prestigious universities.
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LEMON: She admits to being a nuisance to her teachers growing up. Now Ruth Simmons is among them. She is the first African- American woman to be the president of an Ivy League School. She is "Up from the Past." She is an African-American first.
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LEMON (voice-over): The gates of an Ivy League School are a long way from where Ruth Simmons started out in, the fields of Great Land, Texas.
DR. RUTH SIMMONS, PRESIDENT, BROWN UNIVERSITY: My parents were wonderful, uneducated, fundamentalists. Reading level, minimal. Working as field hands, basically.
LEMON: A share cropper and a maid with 12 children, Simmons parents were dirt poor. But they instilled in their baby girl the value of true success.
SIMMONS: They knew how to teach us not to take a back seat to others in defining ourselves. And that was an incredible gift.
LEMON: A gift that sustained her at 15 when her mother dies. A gift that motivated her to hit the books, earn a scholarship to Dillard University and eventually graduate at the top of her class, summa cum laude.
SIMMONS: You know, when I was growing up, I was told systemically that I would never be anything more than a secretary. Because that's what society was at the time. So within me as a child growing up, there arose this sense that there were limitations for me. But I was very lucky because I stumbled upon some magic that helped to allay my concerns about that. And that magic was books.
LEMON: And not just reading them. She was obsessed about how they were written. It led her to study writing at Harvard University, eventually earning a masters and a doctorate in romantic literature. That's when her journey into teaching began. First as a dean at Princeton and then the provost, the highest ranking administrator at Spelman. Then eventually becoming the first African-American to head the all-female Smith College. She says her parents, her background, her education shaped her approach to teaching. SIMMONS: If a student comes into your classroom with everything that concerns that student concerns you. That means if they look hungry that should concern you. That means if they have troubles at home, you have to try to see if there are ways that you can help.
LEMON: Simmons's one-on-one approach earned her high marks. And in 2001, she made history again, becoming the president of Brown University, the first African American ever to head an Ivy League institution.
SIMMONS: For truly, I have seen in Brown, the kind of place I imagined when I dedicated my life to education.
LEMON: She says that after her appointment, she knew the election of someone like Barack Obama was possible.
SIMMONS: It happens because society evolves. And the same is true for women. Today, girls being born in this country can look forward to doing just about anything they aspire to do. And that is an extraordinary thing. Because we can remember when women couldn't vote.
LEMON (on camera): Do you think that you lead more as an example or to you, do you sit down and say I'm an African-American woman, president of an Ivy League? Does it mean more to...
SIMMONS: Being the first is historically, perhaps historically significant. But it's also an accident. It could have been somebody else. And I think one can't get too involved in the notion of being the first really of anything. And I'm just happy to be president of a great university. And it wouldn't matter to me whether I was the fifth African-American who had done it.
LEMON (voice-over): Simmons says her mission now is educational equality and access for everyone. At Brown, she's launched a $1.4 billion program known as the Campaign for Academic Enrichment.
SIMMONS: We should be judged as society by whether the least of our population can find their way to education and as a consequence of finding our way there, elevate themselves to the highest opportunity. That is the test.
LEMON: Ruth Simmons, a brilliant mind who rose from share cropper's daughter to an admired educator and role model. A true African-American first.
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LEMON: Let's talk now to sports business analyst Rick Horrow. He joins us via Skype from NFL Hall of Fame, the game in Canton, Ohio. Rick, is the NFL training camp open? It seems like there is more business than sports at play. And stop scowling into the camera. You're scaring people.
RICK HORROW, CNN SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: How's that? Is that better for you, pal?
LEMON: Much better. Back off a little bit.
HORROW: Good thing. OK.
LEMON: Go ahead. It seems like there is more business than sports at play really.
HORROW: Look, it's been a busy day today. We got four minutes to the kick off here. The NFL has $7 billion business. Hall of Fame is the first game that traditionally kicks off the season, they're selling optimism. Every team goes 16-0, it's part of the deal.
LEMON: All right. To Twitter or not to Twitter. I know you tweet. It's a big issue in the NFL, right?
HORROW: Yes, there are 700,000 followers on the NFL's tweeting site. Terrell Owens, the Buffalo Bills receiver who is right out here in about five minutes, has over 110,000 followers. It's a big issue. Do you regulate the work place? Do you allow teams to kind of keep the wall up so they guard against each other stealing plays? Or do you let these guys express themselves? The technology has to evolve just like cell phone usage used to. This story isn't finished.
LEMON: Hey, I understand you. I have a little bit of time left here.
Talk to me about Tiger Woods a little bit. You wanted to talk to us about that. We only have five seconds. So go for it.
HORROW: The reason I did is because he want his seven straight or seventh event called the Bridgestone, the first golfer ever to win one event seven times...
LEMON: All right.
HORROW: He's won 70 events total. Economic impact in this area, this region, $30 million. It's huge.
LEMON: And you'll have to end on that. Thank you, Rick. And thank you guys for watching us. See you back here at 10:00 p.m. "State of the Union" with John King starts right now.
