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Lawmaker Fires Back at Constituents Over Health Care; North American Summit Agenda: Bodies and Wreckage Pulled from Hudson River; Town Halls Over Health Care Turn Rowdy; The Politics of Health Care; Afghan Insurgents in the Crosshairs; Los Zetas: Mexico's Most Feared Drug Cartel
Aired August 09, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.
We begin tonight with America's ferocious debate over health care reform. Growing more unhealthy by the day. Across the country, we are witnessing town hall meetings on health care devolving into shouting matches worthy of a "Jerry Springer" episode, with people lashing out over who ultimately pays the bill for millions of medically uninsured Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN BETZ, WFAA-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The event remained largely civil. Huge crowds overwhelmed the meeting hall with hundreds more gathering outside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're very, very scared citizens.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the Republicans controlled Congress and the Senate, why didn't you introduce and pass health care reform then?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My biggest fear is this is going to get rammed down our throats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a mob. Do we look like mob?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This doesn't look like mob. This looks like home.
MATT SCZESNY, KMOV-TV CORRESPONDENT: Some estimated that as many as another 800 couldn't get in and were locked outside.
(CROWD CHANTING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They won't even let us in. They blocked us out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son has the right to live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No doubt about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son has the right to health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't really think you're going to get that, ma'am, in this bill, do you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to do something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what they -- that's what I hear from the liberals. We got to do something. A bad bill is better than nothing, I guess.
KONIJI ANTONY, WMC-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This health care reform town hall meeting in downtown Memphis spawned more than one screaming match.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. STEVE COHEN (D), TENNESSEE: I'll make this my first priority and yes, I have read the bill.
(CROWD CHEERING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) taxes!
COHEN: Please don't yell out. This is America. This is Memphis, Tennessee. Take two aspirin and come back in the morning.
(CROWD BOOING)
ANA CABRERA, KMCH-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Boos and cheers greeted Representative Ed Perlmutter.
(CROWD CHANTING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need health care reform for my daughter.
CABRERA: Proof people are passionate when it comes to health care reform.
REP. ED PERLMUTTER (D), COLORADO: I just appreciate the fact that you're all willing to take time to come out. Thank you for exercising your civic duty of talking to your congressman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: So it's not only the crowds losing their cool at town halls lately. Listen to Georgia Congressman David Scott get fired up when a doctor brought up health care reform at a town hall meeting last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAVID SCOTT (D), GEORGIA: Not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting, OK? Then do that. Do that! But don't, don't come and take advantage of what these individuals have done. You want a meeting with me on health care, I'll give it to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Well, tonight I'm going to talk to Brian E. Hill. There he is right there, the man who set the congressman off. Dr. Hill says he is not partisan, he is not a troublemaker. And you'll also hear from Congressman David Scott live just minutes away right here on CNN.
And meantime, who or what is behind the course of dissent we're hearing over health care reform?
Supporters of health care reform accuse special interest groups, insurance companies and rabble rousers of hijacking the discussion. Critics say they have a right to oppose what they still see as a government takeover of health care. It has been the partisan point of contention on the Sunday talk show circuit all day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), MAJORITY WHIP: I'll tell you what's wrong with it. When there's a group of people honestly sitting in the middle trying to ask the important questions and get the right answers and instead someone takes the microphone and screams and shouts to the point where the meeting comes to an end. That isn't dialogue. That isn't the democratic process.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: And to demonize citizens who are -- you know, who are energetic about this strikes me as demonstrating a kind of weakness in your position. In other words, you want to change the subject, and rather than talk about the half a trillion dollar in Medicare cuts, let's talk about somebody at some town hall meeting who misbehaved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: President Barack Obama has taken a short break from the domestic debate over health care reform to spend a couple days in Mexico. He is meeting there with Mexican President Felipe Calderon and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper. They won't be together very long, but together the three leaders hope to set an agenda for North America.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is in Guadalajara. She is traveling with the president.
Hello, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don.
Well, I traveled commercially here to get here. One of the first things you do through customs is you go through and you're met with a custom agent who has a bottle of Purell who basically wash your hands, because of the swine flu. This is where it originated and there's a lot of concern over the H1N1 virus and the fall season and the outbreak.
And so, that is one of the things that a senior administration official told us that the president sat down and spoke with the Mexican President Felipe Calderon with earlier this evening -- the need for all three of these leaders from Mexico, from Canada, from the United States to coordinate their efforts this fall to make sure people have vaccinations, to make sure there's information, so they don't have to close down the border.
So far, there's been very good cooperation between these three countries. They want to maintain that.
The second thing that they talked about this evening was the whole idea of what is happening with the drug battle, the war on drugs, and how difficult it has become for Calderon here. He has taken on the drug cartels. They have gained strength.
And what is happening -- a frustration here on the part of the Mexican government because there are some members of Congress who are holding onto about $100 million in aid meant to fight in this drug war here. They're holding onto that because they don't want to let it go while there's some concern that there are human rights violations that's taking place on the side of the Mexican military.
President Obama addressed this at this meeting earlier today, saying in the long run, if you want to dismantle, defeat these cartels, that all the countries have to have a commitment and be confident in one another.
And then finally, they are talking as well about the trade between these three countries. Obviously, the U.S. recession, the crumbling economy in our own country, has had a dramatic impact when it comes to Canadians and Mexicans losing their jobs. President Obama trying to reassure them that he believes we're starting to turn a corner and getting on the other side - Don.
LEMON: Suzanne Malveaux with the president in Guadalajara, Mexico. Thank you very much for that, Suzanne.
The summit is taking place against a backdrop of rising violence all across Mexico by drug cartels. And CNN's Michael Ware is also in Guadalajara and I asked him about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If you look at the grand scheme of this drug war -- I mean, it's not about the American border. It starts in the Andes in South America and goes to the streets of the United States and to the streets of Canada.
In the Andes, you have production. In Central America, you have warehousing and transshipment of the drugs. In Panama, you have the money laundering and the banking, and Mexico is the retail end. And by the time you get into the United States, that's distribution.
Now, the profit incentive is not going to go away until America's demand for this multibillion dollar supply of illicit drugs every year, perhaps up to $30 billion or $40 billion a year, goes away, until this demand disappears.
Now, I don't know about you, Don. But I don't see that American demand disappearing any time soon.
So, America's got some tough choices. It's got to get real about this war. You either send the 101st Airborne Division into Mexico and really seal that border, which honestly isn't that possible, or you start thinking about regulating some of these drugs and taxing them and looking at earning some revenue. There's tough choices ahead for any American administration that really wants to tackle the war on drugs, Don.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. That was CNN's Michael Ware. He's covering the drug war in Mexico. Later this hour, Michael will take us inside the world's most dangerous drug cartel. And for more on our conversation, go to our blog, cnn.com/newsroom, and just click on Don.
Two flights, two family vacations, same horrific end in the New York sky when a tourist helicopter and a small plane collided over the Hudson River. Nine people, three of them teenagers, are dead. And now we're seeing the faces of this tragedy.
Sixty-year-old Steve Altman was piloting a single-engine Piper plane when it apparently slammed into a sightseeing helicopter just before noon yesterday. His brother Dan and Dan's 15-year-old son Doug were on board, heading to the Jersey shore. Already, a video tribute of the smiling Pennsylvania teen is posted on YouTube.
In the helicopter, a pilot and five Italian tourists celebrating a wedding anniversary. Fifteen-year-old James Gallazzi and his parents were killed in the crash along with 16-year-old Filippo Norelli and his dad.
Seven bodies have been found, two are still missing in the Hudson's murky waters. And an incoming storm has put the recovery mission on hold for the night, but crews will be back out in the river first thing in the morning. Divers have already pulled up the twisted wreckage of the helicopter and police using sonar think they have pinpointed what's left of the plane. But a swift current and low visibility are making it tough going for those divers.
Back here in the U.S., four children and three adults are dead after a pickup truck was slammed by a reportedly stolen car. The car was fleeing police in Fresno, California yesterday. Police say a 3- year-old boy and three girls, all younger than 8, were thrown from the truck when it was hit by a Dodge Neon. All three people in the car died in the crash after reportedly running two stop signs. Police say none of the victims was wearing a seat belt. They say the Dodge Neon was carjacked earlier this weekend.
Ground zero in the Mexican drug war. President Obama is there and so is CNN's Michael Ware. He takes us to the barrios where the cartels and the cops are squaring off.
Plus this --Afghan insurgents in the crosshairs. We take you to the frontlines
And the politics of health care. Are the fiery town hall meetings free speech at its best or an organized attempt at sabotage?
Also, tell us what's on your mind. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Let's get back to talking about health care reform. Call it passion, call it conviction, whatever you call it, the issue has people talking more like yelling to be heard about this issue.
A Georgia congressman is the latest to get caught in the fray at a town hall meeting just last week. And Duffy Dixon from CNN affiliate WXIA was there to witness it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT: There are people in this room who are here who do not want anything changed in health care, OK?
DUFFY DIXON, WXIA-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a packed town hall meeting, which was taped by the city of Douglasville, we see Georgia Congressman David Scott and things start to unravel after a question about health care.
DR. BRIAN E. HILL, UROLOGIST: My question is this, why are you voting for a health care plan that's shown not to work in Massachusetts and why are you going to institute that in a nationwide manner?
SCOTT: I'm not voting on any plan.
DIXON: At first, Scott appears confused over what bill is being mentioned, then his response.
SCOTT: First of all, I haven't voted on any bill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you planning on voting on any bill?
SCOTT: I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's an easy out response.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you support a government-run option? How about that?
SCOTT: Yes, I do.
DIXON: He keeps going in what some in the crowd later would call a rant.
SCOTT: And I'm listening to my constituents, OK? These are people who live in the 13th Congressional District who vote in this district. That's who I've got to respond to, OK?
Right. All right. That's everybody with different opinions. So what you've got to understand is those of you who are here who have taken and came and hijacked this event that we're dealing with here -- this is not a health care event. You made the choice to come here.
DIXON: We caught up with Dr. Brian Hill, the doctor who asked about health care. Turns out he is one of Scott's constituents, and as far as hijacking the meeting, he says he's no plant from the insurance industry or the Republican Party. In fact, that's not even the party he belongs to.
HILL: I did not go to a meeting to create any problems. I went to the meeting to literally ask a question that I thought was very, very important for my patients.
DIXON: The meeting was primarily about a highway project, but later it was opened up for any questions from the crowd. Hill was one of two people who got to ask about health care.
SCOTT: Not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting, OK. Then do that. Do that! But don't, don't come and take advantage of what these individuals have done! You want a meeting with me on health care, I'll give it to you.
DIXON: Dr. Hill says he has called Scott's office several times.
HILL: I've asked is he going to be having health care forums. Is he going to have an area where we can actually address his thoughts and express our ideas and our thoughts as well?
And I was told no. And that's why I said to myself, I then need to go to an area where I got access to him, and we depend upon our congressmen to really do what's right for us. And I just don't see that happening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: We're going to hear from Congressman Scott as well as Dr. Brian Hill about what happened on the other side of the break. The doctor is here live with us.
Also, the politics of health care and a contentious town hall meeting. Can they pull the White House off message?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Joining me on the phone right now is Congressman David Scott to talk about this uproar that we have been hearing about.
Congressman, thank you so much for joining us tonight. Why did you get so upset with the folks in the crowd there?
SCOTT (via telephone): Because they had hijacked an event that the people of Douglasville, who have a highway that's coming through their community, affecting and will destroy 68 different homes and businesses, running through an 80 percent of African-American community and Hispanics, a whole business sector.
These people put this meeting together. I have a health care event August 15th. It's promoted on every radio and television station in Atlanta, Georgia. We've got promos for them. It's on my Web site. That was the place to come, not there.
LEMON: Some of the people who were there were saying it was the -- it was the last question that you got and that pretty much the business of the highway had been taken care of, and if you represent the people in this district, why can't they ask you about health care?
SCOTT: Because what you got on those tapes is what they want you to hear. That audience was unruly. It was intimidating, and I was not going to be intimidated. And I think congressmen are being held in effigy, they're getting death sentences, and I'm willing to stand up and fight for the other side on this. And so that was the whole point.
LEMON: Do you think this is getting out of -- these are getting out of control?
SCOTT: Pardon me?
LEMON: Do you think these town halls are getting out of control?
SCOTT: I think they are getting out of control and -- but I do think this, that we cannot let this. These individuals have a right to come and express their opinion, but this must be done in a very deliberate manner. This is a very complex issue. I have a health care meeting. I have a health care event every year for five years. It's on -- everybody in Atlanta, Georgia, in the metro area, knows it.
This is something that was orchestrated. This gentleman came there to hijack this meeting that was not about health care and that's why I was very concerned. I stood up. The people in the community, they were concerned about it as well.
LEMON: Well, we have to thank you because we're up against -- we're up against a time problem here. But we thank you for joining us, because we have a lot of news to get on and we invite you to come here live on CNN to talk about this issue as well. So, thank you.
SCOTT: I would love to do it.
LEMON: Have a great night.
In the meantime, Dr. Hill is here.
Doctor, you said that you were challenging Congressman Scott on behalf of your patients and you heard what he had to say. Explain. Do you want a...
HILL: Well, I don't want to get off point. I really, really don't. I would have to say I disagree. I actually spoke with his office. I talked with Mr. Johnson in his office three or four days before the meeting on the Saturday that he was talking about. And Mr. Johnson said that we are not going to be having any health care forums. There's not going to be any time to be able to approach my congressman and that's actually the reason I went to the meeting.
LEMON: He said you were there to hijack the meeting. It wasn't about -- did you know that this was about a highway and not about health care?
HILL: I did, and I knew that. And that's why I sat there through the meeting. The meeting lasted -- it was supposed to go to 10:00 to 12:00. Once 12:00 rolled around, I sat there quietly and we continued to have the meeting for an additional two hours.
They actually made a mention towards the end of the meeting that it's now opened up to questions. If anybody has any further questions about 92, please come up to the microphone. Everybody did. And I stood at the back of the line after all the questions about highway 92 were answered.
LEMON: And you were just upset because you said he didn't answer your question. You wanted him to talk about the Massachusetts health care issue.
HILL: I want to talk about health care. I feel like we really need to stop doing all of these distraction techniques. I mean, even talking like the congressman was talking tonight is distraction.
LEMON: What do you mean by that?
HILL: Well, we're not talking about the point of what's really important here. And that is we got to discuss health care, and he's continuing to try to move us away from actually that topic.
LEMON: You didn't want to happen what's happened, I would assume, at other health care -- town hall health cares around the country.
HILL: No.
LEMON: So what do you make of people who are going in and protesting and shouting and doing those things? Do you feel it's a distraction as well?
HILL: Well, I actually do. I feel that unfortunately -- well, this is a democracy. And we need to be able to come together as adults and as people with ideas and to be able to express our ideas back and forth. That's how a democracy is supposed to work. And coming in and screaming and hollering and being disruptive does not accomplish that.
LEMON: As a doctor, every day -- you were just paged. As we've heard from you, I'm getting paged, Don. Explain to our viewers, talk to our viewers. This is your opportunity about the importance of health care reform in this country and what we should be doing, Doctor.
HILL: And I agree 100 percent, and actually I let off my statement when I was talking with my congressman.
LEMON: You're right there, talk to them. What do you want to say to the American people about it?
HILL: I think health care needs to be improved. I think we need to change our health care system. There are some inefficiencies that we can improve in our health care system.
But the important thing is that we actually have to pick a plan that works. And we cannot just pick a plan based on ideology. And we've got to actually look at the data and the statistics and the numbers and say can we make this health care system actually truly do what we're trying to promote, which is improving quality of care, decreasing costs, increasing access.
And if we lose that debate amongst the ideologies of politics, well, then we're not doing what's right for the American people and that's a shame.
LEMON: And we should be talking about it without beating people up.
HILL: Yes, without a doubt.
LEMON: And having them end up in your -- in the hospital to see you.
HILL: Without a doubt.
LEMON: Thank you, Doctor. We really appreciate you taking time.
HILL: No. Thank you and I appreciate you all.
LEMON: All right. Thank you very much.
HILL: Thank you.
LEMON: Dr. Brian E. Hill.
Also, the politics of health care. We're going to talk about more in these contentious town hall meetings. Can they pull the White House off message? Mark Preston, Lynn Sweet join us to break it all down.
Plus, on the ground in a battle zone. CNN's Michael Ware takes us to the frontlines where Mexico's war on drugs is being fought.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back.
We've shown you the protests, the debates, the all-out pushing and shoving over health care reform. And you can bet President Obama is paying attention. You made health care reform a key platform, if not the key platform of his presidency. And he had a blunt message in his weekly address to the nation -- don't believe everything you hear. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me start by dispelling the outlandish rumors that reform will promote euthanasia or cut Medicaid or bring over a government takeover of health care. That's simply not true. This isn't about putting government in charge of your health insurance. It's about putting you in charge of your health insurance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: CNN political editor Mark Preston, Lynn Sweet from the "Chicago Sun-Times" and PoliticsDaily.com, both join me to help sort it all out. We're glad that Lynn is back. She's been on vacation.
Good to see you, Lynn.
And you know, the president has been spared the public heckling over this health care reform, everything that we've been seeing at the town halls. But, Mark, you know, the more he holds these town hall meetings himself, which he will do another one on Wednesday, the more he opens himself up to the chances that he's going to see this and hear it personally.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Yes, Don. I mean, look, the protests up to this point really have been organized. We've seen these interest groups have really gotten their supporters riled up and convincing them to go to these town halls.
But you're absolutely right. President Obama, when he starts to do these town halls across the country, is going to face the same thing. He's going to face supporters, of course, who are going to be -- you know, backing him in this health care plan. But he's also going to face those angry voices, those angry faces that we've seen so far.
LEMON: And, Lynn, you know, the White House had tried to play it down, but are they changing their tune now? They had called it -- what I believe it was Astroturf or something like that.
LYNN SWEET, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Oh, please, give me a break. All of a sudden orchestrating, community organizing, organizing people to come out, orchestrating is a dirty word, Don?
The Democrats are divided even among themselves. You know, there's a difference between having an unruly group of people, that's one thing, and saying that you're turning out people. That's just a ridiculous thing. I hope the White House is able just to explain the many policies and concepts within a complicated bill in simpler ways, so if they have a story to tell, it is upon them and the president to tell it, too.
But on the other hand, I don't think the Democrats are that unhappy because this helps them organize. And it helps them -- helps them show the House members, who, they are afraid, will get nervous and shaky and lose their nerve. They're going to try and bring in their troops during this August recess to show that they can bolster them and keep them.
Look, I just got an e-mail even from Eleanor Holmes -- to go to the office of Eleanor Holmes Norton in the district, and she doesn't even have a vote.
LEMON: Oh, wow. OK.
SWEET: So -- it was an e-mail from Organizing for America.
LEMON: But, Mark -- I want to ask Mark this, Lynn. You know, the concern from many people who attend those town halls and they're not among the rowdy people is that, that real constructive debate is being drowned out by all of the dramatics.
PRESTON: Yes. You know, Don, and just right before we came on air, I was forwarded an e-mail that showed this e-mail chain of supporters and opponents in Maryland who are trying to strategize and game out how they're going to act at a health care forum tomorrow night in Towson.
So there's going to -- you know, there surely, clearly is a sharp divide. And when you have folks not being able to, you know, clearly ask questions and to get straight responses and you have people shouting and yelling, it's not constructive. And when you see really the rhetoric jacked up and images of Nazism and members being hung in effigy, that's not necessarily constructive to this debate.
LEMON: Yes. And you know what, Lynn, I should have followed when you talked about this, because this is the perfect follow-up question to your point where you talked about the administration getting its message out. But how much of this is the administration's own fault when, you know, even news organizations are trying to dig into what's exactly in this reform bill or bills. It's tough to get the information because no one knows exactly what's proposed.
SWEET: Well, there's still drafts of legislation if you wanted to, you know, devote the whole of your show on it. One could. But there is...
LEMON: But its proposed -- there are so many things proposed in it. There are no specifics is what I'm saying.
SWEET: Well, but actually there are some broad brushes, and that's what people are reacting to. And I know I have to be quick here. The point is there is two story lines developing, and that is just the story about the story over protests and the nuts and bolts are in the bill and the -- both sides are organizing people to come to and pack the houses in these town halls.
And now, of course, there shouldn't be yelling, and, of course, the Nazi imagery is despicable and should not be used, because whatever is happening now is just people demonstrating free speech and is nowhere close to that. But part of this is just -- as I say, it is interesting to have the Obama people, of all people, complaining that something is orchestrated when they do that themselves. You know, the Democrats have all their allies helping to orchestrate their campaign to get their legislation advanced.
So -- yes, so both sides have their organizations working to turn out people to these town halls.
LEMON: Lynn, Mark, you guys are the best. Thank you very much. Always good to see you.
SWEET: Thank you.
PRESTON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
Taking to the airwaves to sort out the health care battle. If you're talking about it, well, so are our radio hosts. There they are. Warren is wearing a vest? Well, they're sounding off about these town hall smack downs.
Plus, we will take you straight to the frontlines of war.
Targeting Afghan insurgents. The sights, the sounds of an escalating battle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This issue of health care reform really drawing a lot of you to log on and send your comments to us.
Here's what Melodymuses says, "The town hall in Tampa clearly demonstrated that it is out of control."
Dovescorner says, "Yes, the doctor's motive was mistaken by the congressman, but look what the trend has been in those meetings. Congress has feelings, too."
2binformed -- I see Martha Zoller coming up next, she's laughing. 2binformed says, "I think all of the shouters are misinformed. If they would shut up and listen, they might hear the real benefits to all."
Professorwow says, "People argue that only 45.7 million lack health insurance. In a rich country like the USA, that is a human rights violation."
Thank you for sending that in. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com to tell your comments. Get on.
OK. So, take a wild guess at a topic likely to be all over talk radio in the morning -- health care, health care and probably more health care.
Our radio hosts joining me next -- Martha Zoller and Warren Ballentine. Always good to see you, guys.
OK, Warren, so I'll start with you. I started with Martha last week.
What are your listeners making of all these town hall debates and uproar and protests?
WARREN BALLENTINE, HOST, "THE WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": Well, my listeners look at this and look at the campaign when Sarah Palin was having meetings similar to this.
But what I keep telling them is, look, this is a lot of proposals. It's still a work in progress. So I don't know why everybody is debating and getting upset. And as far as organization goes, both sides are doing it. So what we need to do is talk about what's best for the country.
Honestly, Don, I think debates just remove the public option. This will pass with no problem at all. And I think everybody will be happy.
LEMON: And so he said, you know, there shouldn't be all this uproar. But people have the right to be passionate, Martha?
MARTHA ZOLLER, HOST, "THE MARTHA ZOLLER SHOW": Oh, absolutely. And I mean, a little bit of loud speaking and that kind of thing does not -- I mean, that's free speech. I mean, heck, the Supreme Court upheld the burning of the flag and being supremacist. I just think that it's being overblown.
LEMON: Let me jump in here, though.
ZOLLER: Sure.
LEMON: I mean, you can't say a little bit of free speech and yelling. You've seen the video. There's more than just yelling. People were arrested. Some people are getting beat up.
ZOLLER: Yes, and they should be arrested. But what I'm saying is, this idea that you can't go out and speak to your congressman -- the reason why the doctor got so aggravated at that David Scott meeting was that he had called repeatedly to the office and had gotten nothing.
So he went to a meeting and they allowed questions on other topics and that's what the doctor did. So, and the congressman was wrong and he should have apologized to him.
BALLENTINE: You know, Don, what's amazing to me is -- and honestly, I got to say this, when the Republicans were in office, when they were in control, they didn't even try to take it to the people and have town hall meetings to talk about what they were doing. They just did whatever the heck they wanted to do.
ZOLLER: That is not true. BALLENTINE: At least the Democrats are trying to talk to the people and honestly that's what this is about. Telling people what it's about and because they're yelling and screaming, they're not getting the information. We're talking about 1,100 pages worth of stuff here.
How many people have actually read it? Have you read everything, Martha?
ZOLLER: I haven't read everything, no.
LEMON: There's a lot out there to read, too, Warren. I mean, there are actually like 12 or 13 different versions of this bill out there. So, it's a lot to read and absorb and probably the people who are proposing the legislations are...
ZOLLER: I think, though, the one thing Warren and I can agree on, I think that if you take the public option out, if you look at individually what you're going to do as far as the elderly and Medicare and, you know, my issue is if you can save $500 million on Medicare or $500 billion on Medicare and not hurt the services, then show me.
I don't trust the government. I didn't trust it under President Bush towards the end there. I don't trust it now. If you tell me you can save money, then do it and then we have a place to start.
LEMON: Martha, I've got 15 seconds left, really. So, how much of this -- I heard this all morning on the talk -- on morning -- the Sunday shows, how much of this has to do with just people's dislike of Barack Obama? I hear people saying...
BALLENTINE: 85 percent of this has to do...
ZOLLER: I say zero.
BALLENTINE: 85 percent of this has to do with the fact that you have President Obama in office. When the Republicans were there, again -- look, Dick Cheney would tell you in a minute, I'm not answering that question, next question. At least the Democrats are trying to talk to the people about what they're doing.
LEMON: Warren, that's going to have to be the last word. Thank you, Warren. Thank you, Martha. Always good to see you, guys.
ZOLLER: Thanks, Don.
BALLENTINE: Thank you.
LEMON: Afghan insurgents in the crosshairs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're clear to fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: You're going to go right to the frontlines there.
Also, ground zero in the Mexican drug war. President Obama is there and so is CNN's Michael Ware and you will be there, too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A frontlines look tonight at the fighting in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a guy who was digging in the road right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And we got two guys digging in the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're trying to hide now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like they got an over-watch position.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to engage these individuals. Observed one individual. He's back out of the hole right now. Looks like he was placing something in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Running a wire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A wire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're engaging.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You're looking at video released by the Pentagon as an attack team zeroes in on two men believed to be insurgents. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hit the guy on the road. Hit the guy on the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger. Hit the guy on the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hit the guy on the road. You guys got the guy on the side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear to fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're clear to fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Well, seconds later there's an explosion followed by machine gunfire. Coalition forces say the two men were trying to set up a bomb last week on a road in Zabul Province in southern Afghanistan.
Going inside Mexico's war on drugs. The president is there and so is CNN's Michael Ware. We've had overwhelming response to what he showed us last night and he is back tonight by popular demand.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Want to really know what's going on in the war on drugs in Mexico? Stick around. You're about to find out.
As drug violence escalates out of control in Mexico, our Michael Ware went there to see it for himself. Now, last night, Michael joined us and we talked about the Los Zetas, the most ruthless and feared drug cartel in the country. We got such a huge response to that story, we wanted to follow up. And we caution you, some of these images are very disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WARE (voice-over): The dead always tell a story. And here in Mexico, that story is the war raging on America's doorstep, being fought for the right to supply America's demand for illegal drugs, a war becoming more violent, more ruthless, mostly because of one group.
(on camera): To even begin to understand that violence, come with me here in a barrio in the southern Mexican city of Veracruz.
Imagine, if you will, a band of Special Forces Green Beret soldiers go rogue and offer their services and their firepower to the drug cartels. Well, that's precisely what's happened in Mexico in the 1990s. Commandos from the Mexican army deserted and set up their own cartel known as the Los Zetas.
The Los Zetas, a group that the U.S. government now says is the most technologically advanced, sophisticated and dangerous cartel operating in Mexico. And this is an example of some of their most recent work.
Until not so long ago, this was the home to a local police commander, commanded just two months before. And at 5:00 a.m. one morning, two cars pulled up in these streets. Eight or nine gunmen got out, armed with assault rifles and 40 millimeter grenade launchers. They blasted their way into this house and it took them less than five minutes to execute the father, the police commander, his wife, a policewoman, and in the blaze that they started, to kill four children.
This is the drug war in Mexico. This is a war that the Los Zetas are fighting. And this is the war on America's doorstep that shows no sign of ending. (voice-over): And with their fearsome weaponry and military expertise, U.S. agencies consider the Zetas America's most formidable enemy in the drug war.
RALPH REYES, MEXICO AND CENTRAL AMERICAN CHIEF, DEA: The Zetas have obviously assumed the role of being the number one organization responsible for the majority of the homicides, the narcotic-related homicides, the beheadings, the kidnappings, the extortions that take place in Mexico.
WARE: From this Washington, D.C. office, DEA Central American chief Ralph Reyes directs America's fight against the Zetas, a fight he says that will take years.
REYES: They continue to train new recruits through several campaigns, one of them is a very public and open narco banners that they post around the country of Mexico, specifically tailored to the military in that they will offer better pay and better benefits if they join the ranks of the Zetas.
WARE: With their mastery of combat, says Reyes, this organized crime network operates more like a U.S. infantry company patrolling the streets of Fallujah in Iraq than they do a street gang. And they're only getting stronger.
(on camera): Veracruz is a popular tourist destination, with colorful plazas just like this one. But it's actually a thin veneer for what's really going on beneath. Local newspapers almost daily have headlines of the horror of the bloody violence of the drug cartels, cartels that's here in Veracruz are more often than not linked to the Los Zetas.
The American Drug Enforcement Agency tells me that whilst it was originally based on military lines, it's been built on a business structure with quarterly meetings, business ledgers kept, even votes on key assassinations.
And now the Los Zetas are taxing businesses beyond even their drug reach, from human trafficking across the American border to as one recent scandal shows, they've been imposing a kind of tax on the Mexican government itself. The state-run oil company, it's just been revealed, has been bleeding billions through corrupt officials linked to the Los Zetas.
And as a DEA agent told me, the American border makes little difference to the Los Zetas. To them, it doesn't matter whether their violence is being perpetrated on the Mexican side of the border or on the American side.
(voice over): On that American side, one of their instruments of assassination was teenager Rosalio Reta. He was just 13 years old when he first killed.
"I love doing it," says Reta in this police interrogation. "Killing that first person, I loved it. I thought I was superman." But you can be certain there are more like him, and there will be until America can defeat adversaries like Zetas and end the drug wars across its border.
Michael Ware, CNN, Veracruz, Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Mother Nature's fury. Hope there was no one in this building because look what happened. We're going to take you overseas.
Also, what if your child had only one shot at survival and your health insurance might not cover it. How far would you go to raise the money?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Typhoon Morakot dropping ridiculous amounts of rain now in southeast China. And check out what the storm did earlier today in Taiwan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Look at that. Unbelievable amounts of floodwaters undermining this hotel and ultimately bringing down the house. We're told all 300 guests were safely evacuated before the building toppled down. Want to give you another look at it. It's being called the worst flooding in Taiwan in 50 years. Hundreds of houses leveled or destroyed. At least 50 dead in Taiwan and the Philippines and plenty of people either missing or unaccounted for. Boy!
Jacqui Jeras joins us to tell us about that and also what's going on here, Jacqui. A lot of water.
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: All right, Jacqui, thank you very much.
Want to register to win a home and maybe save a little boy's life in the process? I know it sounds like an odd question. I'll explain it straight ahead.
Also, she admits to being a nuisance to her teachers growing up. Ruth Simmons is an African-American first. She's the first woman -- first African-American of an Ivy League school. She's up from a past. She's an African-American first.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A hundred bucks gets your name in the pot for a lakeside home and you can help save a little Georgia boy's life at the same time. Payton Thornton has a rare and painful skin disease. He needs an expensive stem cell procedure, one his parents cannot afford. So, a family member is raffling her home for $100 a ticket. If Payton gets this treatment, it could save his life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID THORNTON, PAYTON'S FATHER: Every single child that's had it, it just made unbelievable strides.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It is a heck of a gamble his family hopes will pay off. Thirteen hundred tickets have been sold so far. They need at least another 3500 tickets sold for Payton's surgery.
A lot of you have been asking how you can help him. If you go to our blog, we'll put it up there and also I'm going to tweet it right after the show for you. So, thanks for weighing in on that story.
We've been telling you about Ruth Simmons. She's the first African-American woman to be president of an Ivy League school. She is up from a past. She's an African-American first. And you can see her story on our blog at cnn.com/newsroom. Just click on Don. It's an amazing story.
A lot of you have been weighing in. There was one from Mel that I want to respond to. Where is Mel's name here? See if I can see her picture.
Mel said, "Oh, the doctor, Don, on TV with his lab coat and his -- and his, you know, whites or whatever, why did he have to wear that?"
He was on call. He was on call. That's why he wore it, Mel. But thanks for tweeting us that.
Here are some of your -- some of your other responses.
Cmdeb says, "Warren Ballentine thinks Obama and the Democrats invented the town hall? Congressmen always hold them during the summer recess."
BigSkyDem says, "Insurance companies, big pharmaceuticals, big hospitals are counting on Americans to scream loud against their own self-interests."
RanzRaven says, "What's to talk about regarding health care? If you have it, you keep it. If you don't, you get it. Control cost, complete coverage, simple."
I'm Don Lemon right here in Atlanta. I'll see you back here next weekend. Make sure you have a great evening.
