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Arlen Specter's Town Hall; Providing Affordable Health Care Insurance; The 20-Month Recession?; Health Care Road Trip Spurs Even More National Conversation; Tracking Your Web Searches; Electronic Haggling and Car Shopping; Urban Farming Could Be The Answer for Cities Like Detroit
Aired August 12, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A volatile issue, a make-or-break month. We are following the latest developments in the fight over health care reform. More lawmakers are holding town hall meetings today. Republican Senator Charles Grassley fielded pointed questions from constituents in Winterset, Iowa.
President Obama on the offensive against critics of health care reform. The president heads west this week for more town hall meetings in Montana and Colorado. The White House has also launched a Web site to counter critics.
Emotions are running high at many of the town hall meetings on health care reform. That was evident at the forums hosted by Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter.
Details from National Political Correspondent Jessica Yellin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Anxiety, fear, confusion. Add summer heat, and you've got a potent combination for a health care town hall. Frustration on the sidewalk out front.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't they take the health care being forced down our throat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you go home?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, why don't you go home? Why don't I have freedom? Because we elected somebody that wants to take our freedom. Where does my opinion count at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're entitled to be here just like you. Just like you...
YELLIN: And inside the auditorium...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You want to leave? Leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to speak my mind before I leave, because your people told me I could. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm angry. I'm an American citizen. I'm a voter. I'm a taxpayer. I'm sick of the lies.
YELLIN: The man at the center of it all, Senator Arlen Specter, worked to dispel myths about health care reform.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D), PENNSYLVANIA: So far, no bill has passed the Congress. You want to have a private option, you will have it. You can have that one where you'll not be charged for somebody who has an abortion.
YELLIN: And for a cancer survivor, an issue close to his heart, when a voter declared that health care reform would mean 74-year-old cancer victims would be denied coverage.
SPECTER: Well, you're just not right. Nobody 74's going to be written off because they have cancer. That's a vicious, malicious, untrue rumor.
YELLIN: The senator later declared the gathering civil, democracy in action, he called it. And told another crowd their views will help shape the final bill.
SPECTER: There will be very careful consideration to the ideas that I've heard here and the ideas you have when I go back to Washington.
YELLIN: And when he returns to Washington, these constituents will make sure the senator is listening.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Boy. And Jessica Yellin joins us now from Washington.
And Jessica, that last point from Senator Specter is the point you made with us yesterday. And I asked you to repeat it again, and if I had time, I would have had you repeat it three more times, that there is no health care reform bill now, one bill.
But I've got to ask you about the crowds at some of these events. You know, a lot of times we see seniors at these events. We don't see a lot of African-Americans, we don't see a lot of Hispanics, at least at a lot of the events that I've been paying attention to. And as an African-American, not seeing more African-American is a bit disturbing to me. But that crowd at Arlen Specter's event seemed younger.
Who were the folks protesting? And what with their concerns?
YELLIN: Tony, you're absolutely right. They're almost uniformly white. And the folks who were there at the first event were much younger than some of the senior crowds I've seen elsewhere.
There are a lot of young parents who say that they are concerned that the health care reform bill would change medical care in a way that would be worse when their children are grown up, that would also put an undue tax burden on their kids. And there is a lot of general fear about how this will be, in their view, invasive for their families.
HARRIS: Yes.
YELLIN: They're really worried about health care just as an extension of what they perceive as excessive government control in their lives -- Tony.
HARRIS: Yes, that really came through yesterday, and we're blogging about that as well today, pretty much because of what you talked about and what was evident in Arlen Specter's town hall yesterday.
You know, there also seems to be just a lot of misunderstanding and confusion. Share with us some of the biggest myths you're hearing.
YELLIN: Right. First, is the one you pointed out at the beginning, that there is a health care bill that's just going to be steamrolled through Congress. And who matter who dispels the myth, whether it comes from the president, or a senator, folks who are protesters just don't believe when you tell them there is not one bill.
There are many bills out there. Nothing is done yet.
The other one is this idea that there will be some way the government can decide who lives and dies. They're certain that somehow in the bill that will somehow eventually become a government policy, that some panel somewhere will be able to decide who gets the plug pulled on them. Just not true.
And then the other one is that illegal immigrants will be covered and that you will have to pay for other people's abortions. And politicians have been very clear about saying both of those things will not be in the final legislation. But again, everybody who was a protester at these events doesn't want to believe it.
HARRIS: Right. And we can do the best job we can in explaining what is. And, you know, in some cases people will just believe what any want to believe.
Now, one more quick one for you.
How about those who favor reform? Who were they and what are their concerns?
YELLIN: Some of them were union folks or nurses, doctors. But also, a number of people who had had horror stories with insurance companies, where they had been denied coverage, a loved one had been denied coverage, and they had either suffered or died because of it, and they just want to see some change. But they were outnumbered by the organizers for the other side.
But, still, a very passionate group. A passionate minority of people who feel that at least we need insurance reform -- Tony.
HARRIS: This is just fascinating to watch.
Jessica Yellin with us.
Jessica, appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you.
Health care in focus now. One of the challenges in the reform debate, how to provide affordable insurance.
Los Angeles photojournalist Tim Hart introduces us to a man who spent years in the insurance industry, now struggling to pay for coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REY HERNANDEZ, FORMER INSURANCE AGENT: Well, I started as an agent in 1967 at the age of 23. I was an insurance agent for 35 years. I loved the business because it rewarded you for the effort. Over the years of my career, I saw the coverage get more expensive, but you got less.
Here's my tax return from 2002. Our medical expense that year a month was $960. Now we go to 2007, and the cost came out to $1,990 a month. That's almost $24,000 that year. Because we couldn't no longer afford that kind of cost, we did the unthinkable. We dropped our insurance.
JANET HERNANDEZ, REY'S WIFE: It's a little scary not to go to the doctor when you think, maybe, well, I should have this checked.
R. HERNANDEZ: But we finally got her coverage. It was around $500 a month, not a very good plan.
J. HERNANDEZ: And still, today, with changing my deductibles, higher deductibles every year, and still the costs keep going up, up, up.
R. HERNANDEZ: It took a huge chunk of our income.
J. HERNANDEZ: We've cut way back on most of all our expenses. We just don't do the things we used to do. Not knowing, and not knowing that you could lose everything if something happened, that's what was scary about it.
R. HERNANDEZ: I feel very nervous and uneasy about that. And I shouldn't be. I shouldn't have to feel that way. In my senior years, I should be able to feel secure.
J. HERNANDEZ: We had planned so many years for our retirement and to be able to do things, ,and travel and spend time with our grandchildren.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Papa go outside?
R. HERNANDEZ: As an American citizen, I know I have a right to an education. If I get in trouble with the law, I have a right to an attorney. But why don't I have a right to health insurance, affordable health insurance? There's something wrong with that picture.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: That's just strong, strong stuff.
All right. Let's say you're at one of these town hall meetings and you hear a claim that just doesn't seem right. How do you get the facts in a hurry?
Josh is here to show us some Web sites you can get on your smartphone -- what's that, a smartphone -- that bust some of these big myths.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, most cell phones now are smart.
HARRIS: Oh, OK.
LEVS: They're smarter than the computers were when I was born. You know?
HARRIS: I'm just hoping that's not a brand and that we haven't just offered up a commercial.
LEVS: No, I don't think so. No, we're good.
HARRIS: Don't lead me down that dark road. OK.
LEVS: We would know if it was.
No, but, listen -- I mean, look, there are obviously some people who go to these protests who do know a lot of facts and have read the bills, and have strong feelings. And that's great. And there are some who don't, as we were hearing from Jessica.
And no matter where you are on any side of this, no matter what your concerns are, we want to empower you with a series of Web sites that you should be able to get to from the Internet wherever you are.
Let's zoom in the board behind me. I want to show you some of the major ones, but you don't need to write anything down, because at the end of this I'm going to show you one simple place where I posted everything. CNNPolitics.com, first of all, we continuously update this, it's a great Web site.
One of the major features that we have here is called the CNN Political Ticker. And Tony, as part of the ticker, guess what has returned? The CNN Truth Squad.
HARRIS: All right.
LEVS: Here's one right here.
HARRIS: How long have we talked about it? We've wanted this back and it's back. Good.
LEVS: It's back. Yes, and the Truth Squad, you know we did a lot during the campaign, and obviously it's time to come back, focusing on health care.
You're going to hear the answer to this one next hour. So, be with us at the top of the 1:00 hour.
Now, there are also good fact-checking Web sites out there. CNN isn't the only one. FactCheck.org, which is very strong, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center.
I'll tell you, Tony, you know, I follow these fact-checking sites all the time. I don't remember ever seeing one issue get so incredibly many fact checks. And again, it's on all sides, FactCheck.org.
And also, a frequent guest here, something I often show, Politifact.com does the same thing. You see Obama facing there the Truth-O-Meter. You see Palin facing the Truth-O-Meter.
You continuously see this updated. It's amazing. And they have all these rulings coming in very often.
You can see "Mostly True," "Pants on Fire," "False." They have a whole series of these. Again, I'll show you where.
Now, those are the analyses. Maybe you just want to read the bill yourself. I'm going to show you two government Web sites to look at.
One is actually the CBO, Congressional Budget Office. Let's zoom in. I want you to know about this.
We're often hearing the CBO invoked, because ultimately the CBO will be the place that will tell the government, including President Obama. And when they analyze a bill, will it be budget-neutral? And you hear CBO invoked a lot. CBO.gov allows you to see exactly what they're saying, instead of it being filtered by any pundits out there at all.
And if you want to really dig into some legislation, I pulled off one of the bills. Remember, there's tons of them out there. And there's way too many, they have to be merged. We're far from the president.
But, if you want to read a 1,000-page bill, here's one before the House, House Bill 3200. And you know what? Some of their claims are based on a single line buried in there.
Now, that was a lot of stuff. An easy place to find it all? Check this out at our NEWSROOM blog, which is CNN.com -- it's linked to me, so CNN.com/Josh. Also, CNN.com/Tony.
I liked it to you, too.
HARRIS: Good. Good.
LEVS: You go there. All the links I just told you about are right here. And you got my page right there. As soon as I'm off the air, I'm going to go post these links to Facebook.com/JoshLevsCNN and Twitter.com/JoshLevsCNN.
And I've checked all of these, how they work mobile. I tried them on my cell phone, they all work well. So you should, no matter where you are, anytime you hear a claim, you should be able to go to that list, pull up some facts and inform those around you of what the truth is -- Tony.
HARRIS: Is that a new photograph of you?
LEVS: They just switched it. You like that one? They switched it to my other one. Why, you like the other one?
HARRIS: You're a big deal, aren't you? You're getting photo shoots and everything.
LEVS: Oh, no. Well, I hope it's smaller than yours.
HARRIS: There goes our budget.
All right, Josh.
LEVS: Thanks, graphics.
HARRIS: Let me take a moment with you here.
You know, all of the screaming, the shouting and shoving we're seeing at a few of these health care reform town halls, look, I'll be honest with you. It makes for great television. We put this stuff on and folks gravitate to it.
But too often, the real questions and concerns get lost in the noise. That's why we're doing all we can here in the CNN NEWSROOM to cut through the rhetoric and the rumors to address your real concerns and fears about the future of your health care and where this debate is leading our country.
Is all the fighting and frustration we're seeing in these town halls a symptom of something bigger brewing in America right now? Do you fear a big government takeover? Does the prospect of doing nothing scare you even more? Most people agree something has to be done, but what?
We want to know what you think. Send your comments, your questions, and concerns to my blog at CNN.com/Tony.
Our expectation is that most of your questions will take a little time to research, so we won't be able to get back to you right away. We're going to be pulling together really, really smart, informed people in our shop from Elizabeth Cohen to Dr. Sanjay Gupta, to the CNN Money team, to Dana Bash, Brianna Keilar. You just saw Jessica Yellin, Candy Crowley, Suzanne Malveaux, Ed Henry at the White House, to answer your questions.
We'll go outside the shop, of course, for answers if we need to. Once we're able to answer your specific concerns, we will air them for you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
And moving on, honoring the new justice at the White House today. President and Mrs. Obama host a reception for Sonia Sotomayor. The newest member of the United States Supreme Court took the oath Saturday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, U.S. SUPREME COURT: I'm deeply humbled by the sacred responsibility of upholding our laws and safeguarding the rights and freedoms set forth in our Constitution. I ask not just my family and friends, but I ask all Americans to wish me divine guidance and wisdom in administering my new office.
I thank you all again for the love and support you have shown me, and I thank President Obama and the United States Senate for the tremendous honor and privilege they have granted me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Man.
Justice Sotomayor is the first Hispanic on the court and just the third woman.
As Southeast Asia recovers from a damaging typhoon, it looks like it's time for us to keep an eye on some developing tropical weather in our own backyard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Rescuers have located about 1,000 people who were feared dead after a devastating typhoon hit Taiwan and buried entire villages in mud. The survivors are being taken to makeshift relief camps.
Typhoon Morakot is being blamed for deadly mudslides and the worst flooding in Taiwan in half a century. At least 67 people on the island have been killed. Taiwan's fire agency says as many as 100 people are still missing.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: Top thinkers at the Federal Reserve wrapping up a two- day meeting a couple of hours from right now. They're expected to announce they are holding interest rates near zero. Many economists don't expect the Fed to fiddle with rates for at least a year because inflation remains low and employment pretty weak.
These next economists' views are by no means official, but they are certainly interesting. Most surveyed by "The Wall Street Journal" say, recession? What recession? It's over.
Huh?
CNN's Christine Romans -- huh? Christine Romans joins me now.
Christine, I didn't get a chance to get to this story in The Journal today for all the health care work we're doing, but, boy, share this with us.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well, a majority of economists surveyed by "The Wall Street Journal" said that the recession is already over, Tony. They interviewed, I think, 54 -- 47 -- or 52, and 47 of them responded to their survey. And of those, 25 said the recession is already over. Another 11 said it will be over this month or next month.
HARRIS: Hey, wait a minute. We're still seeing negative GDP. What are they talking about here?
ROMANS: Well, we did in the second quarter. Now, that was a rearview mirror. What about the third quarter?
A lot of people think Cash for Clunkers and some other things -- a lot of -- more than $100 billion government stimulus money is out the door that has to be reflected at some point, right? So, this is what a recession looks like.
You've got four quarters here, four quarters in a row, unheard of for negative economic growth. And now these economists in The Journal their survey, on average, 2.4 percent economic growth for the third quarter is what they are expecting.
Another survey by Bloomberg News, Tony, is forecasting four quarters in a row of two-percent-plus economic growth. That would be an economic recovery.
But what's it going to feel like? Well, it's going to feel like maybe a jobless rate that's still rising. A lot of people still think the jobless rate could go to 10 percent. And that means that even if there is a recovery for many people who are looking for a job or holding on to their job for dear life, they're going to saying, what recovery?
And it's interesting, too, Tony, I think, because the stock market has really been telegraphing this for some time now, this big spring and summer rally. A lot of people have been saying stocks are moving higher because there had to be an end in sight to the recession.
You know, the average recession, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research, is 10 months. This has been almost 20 months.
OK. Now, this is the S&P, Tony. I want you to take a close look at this.
You see this rally from 676 in the S&P? I use the S&P because it's 500 stocks. It's not just 30 like the Dow 30.
HARRIS: A broader measure.
ROMANS: So, you look at where it is here, you still would have to have another 500 points, another huge rally, 50 percent more, to get back up to where we were when this recession began. So, even if someone tells you, rings a bell and says, the recession is over, you have not clawed back your stock market losses. We have not clawed back job losses.
We still have a lot of danger signs out there. So, I want to be very, very clear about that. But the majority of economists are now saying that they think that this recession is behind us.
And the NBER, the official arbiter, at some point will come out and say when it ended, just like when they started and it had already been going for some time. So, we won't know until it's done.
It doesn't matter, really, because it still matters how you feel. It's about jobs, it's about your own personal situation.
And a lot of people, Tony, call and e-mail me. I was just on Ali's radio show, and a lot of people ask about, you know, well, what does it mean? If there's a recovery, what does it mean for the average American?
And what I'm sensing is that if you've got money, you're trying to figure out right now how to grow it and capitalize on this turn that may be coming. And if you don't have money and you don't have a job, it still feels exactly the same to you.
So, you know, it depends on where you are, and that's always the way it is at the end of a recession, quite frankly.
HARRIS: Well said. Good stuff. That's interesting.
All right, Christine. Appreciate it. Good to see you, lady.
ROMANS: Nice to see you.
HARRIS: You read the headlines, and the numbers seem pretty incredible -- a car that gets 230 per gallon. How real is it, and how soon before a brother can get it into his garage?
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK. Chevrolet is charging forward with its new electric hybrid, the Volt. The car will be in showrooms in 2010 and carry a $40,000 sticker price. Whoa.
You know, there's a lot of buzz about GM's assertion that the Volt gets 230 miles per gallon. A top GM exec was all salesman when he spoke to our colleagues at CNN International.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BOB LUTZ, VICE CHAIRMAN, GENERAL MOTORS: This car will be sold around the world. It meets safety standards the world over, so it can be sold as-is in any country in the world. But...
ANJALI RAO, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: But it's reported to have rather a chunky price tag on it, isn't it? You know, we're talking about $40,000.
LUTZ: Yes, that's true.
RAO: That's prohibitively expensive, isn't it, for many consumers?
LUTZ: Well, that's true, but it is an extremely well-equipped car, a very safe car. And in the U.S., at least, anyone who buys it will get a $7,500 credit from the federal government, which brings the price down to $32,500, at which point it becomes very affordable.
I mean, we're on the way to selling 120,000 Camaros that are priced considerably -- average transaction price is considerably over that.
RAO: Some analysts also say that GM is going to make a significant loss, though, on the Volt, though, Bob, within the first few years.
Does that concern you at all?
LUTZ: No, it doesn't, because any time you introduce new technology, you can't expect -- you can't expect to be in the milking phase at the same time that you're in the investment phase. Right now we're investing in this technology. We believe it is the future. But obviously in the first generation, the electric motors which are built in relatively small quantities are expensive.
The lithium ion batteries are in their first or second generation, very expensive. The power electronics that shift all the power from the different sources, they are expensive.
And all of these costs are going to come down, so that we're very confident that this vehicle is a flagship of General Motors' environmental technology. It's the first commercially available vehicle in the world that can travel 40 miles electrically and then basically do another 450 kilometers using the gasoline engine as a generator to drive the battery -- to feed the battery as fast as the car is taking energy out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: He seems awfully confident, doesn't he, about this Volt?
Let's talk about the Volt's impact with our Stephanie Elam at the New York Stock Exchange.
And Stephanie, let's drill down on this. What impact is this announcement going to have, I'm thinking, on the car industry as a whole?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's definitely going to have an impact, no doubt about it, Tony. There's a lot of things that we have to talk about, though, because for consumers, they're going to have to weigh the costs, especially because this is the car's first generation. You just heard the vice chairman talking about that.
HARRIS: Yes.
ELAM: That's when the cost is the highest, is when it's in its first iteration.
Now, Edmunds says the purchase price will be much higher than existing hybrids and that it will take years for a buyer to pay off its price premium. Now, J.D. Power point's out that even with the tax credit, the higher price will eliminate a huge part of the market.
GM says beyond the federal tax credit, it may have to go ahead and subsidize that Volt. And as you heard the vice chairman sitting there -- what he was just saying while he's talking to Anjali Rao on CNN International, is that they know that they're going to have to take a hit for this. But at the same time, they're hoping that the technology is so strong, and that it is strong enough, that it will be worth it. And one of those sticking issues is the miles per gallon, right? That MPG, which is hard to talk about when you're talking about electric, too. So, that's one of the differences there, too.
But they've been touting that 230 MPG. And most analysts are skeptical about it, because the number has not been confirmed by the Environmental Protection Agency.
HARRIS: Good point.
ELAM: So, this is something that is still going to have to be worked out. But no doubt the fuel economy is likely to be really good. And one analyst says that the Volt will likely get better fuel economy than current offerings like the Toyota Prius and other cars like that which get 50 miles per gallon.
So, it is different because they do still have gas tanks and you can still plug it in to a normal outlet. And they're saying to charge it one charge, it will be about 80 cents to go that 40 miles. And then after that, you can switch over to gas, which will turn it into electric in your car and that will add another 50 miles and that's how they're coming up with these numbers. But it is -- it's a different way of looking at things, and so the way they measure it might be different as well.
HARRIS: Yes.
ELAM: So, that's what we're looking at here.
HARRIS: Well, but, look, you see that number, 230 miles per gallon and, you know, that's a -- that's an eye-popping number. And it really seems to change the debate. I mean, it really does. So, you know, it's got to be verified. It's got to be worked out. But that -- boy, they've got PR working for them today.
ELAM: Yes, and they're banking on it, too. Because, think about it, if it takes 80 cents to charge it for 40 miles, most people drive within 40 miles every day. So, for most people, that's normal for them. That's not going to be an issue. So this puts GM on the list, the green list, as an environmental leader. And it could be putting pressure on other companies to do the same.
HARRIS: Absolutely.
ELAM: And then, therefore, when that happens, they're all making more electric cars, the costs should come down and it should be easier to find a local plug-in instead of a gas station.
HARRIS: It's a real talker.
Stephanie, appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you.
ELAM: Good to see you, too. Thanks.
HARRIS: You know, and a little later in the NEWSROOM, we will focus on another of GM's post-bankruptcy strategies, selling new cars online through its new partnership with eBay.
Ali Velshi and the CNN Express are rolling across the country right now and talking to people about health care. We will check in and see what they're saying next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: You know, beyond the rowdier town hall meetings, there are real concerns and questions about health care reform. We heard some of those real concerns expressed at Senator Chuck Grassley's town hall in Winterset, Iowa, this morning. Our Ali Velshi is on the road listening to those concerns as well. He held an informal town hall meeting in Paducah, Kentucky, and the conversation was fascinating.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here in Paducah, Kentucky. We are hearing different things from people wherever we're going. But I haven't found too many people around here who are opposed for reforming health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm for the idea, but I don't think that Congress and the president have done a good job of disseminating the information. I'm just hearing a lot of flak and not a lot of meat and potatoes.
VELSHI: What about you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think right now we have a lack of choice. I mean, health care is expensive. I mean, the average cost of the coverage I found more often than not are more expensive than the actual care. I would think any choice -- any viable choice would be better than what we've got now. VELSHI: What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding, there is about 48 million people that's not covered. Those people need to be covered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my husband and I are two of that 47 million-plus that aren't -- don't have health care. And I'm not talking insurance. Of course, we don't have insurance, but I want health care. My husband has diabetes and he just had a bout with cancer. What insurance company is going to cover us? There aren't any.
If I get sick today, where do you think I'm going? I'm going to the emergency room. Who's that costing? That's costing us, the taxpayers. So if it's going to cost my bottom line, if they have to tax me more in order to get health care, tax me. Tax me, tax me, tax me. I am willing to pay.
VELSHI: Let's talk about the 46, 47, 50, whatever million you want to use number of people who are not insured in this country. What's your thought on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would really love to drive a Hummer. They're cool cars. I can't afford one, so I don't drive one. I drive what I can afford.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. I can't believe you're saying that people don't deserve health care if they can't afford it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did I say that, Heather?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what I here you saying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then you're not listening, Heather.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said . . .
VELSHI: But you did say that you would like to buy a Hummer, and you can't buy a Hummer because you can't afford it. So you're saying if you can't afford health -- you can't afford the Hummer, you don't drive it. If you can't afford health care, you shouldn't get it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No, no, no. I'm saying, you have the basic stuff. You get a catastrophic illness, you're in a car crash, an accident, something like that happens, of course you get coverage for that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: All right, and Ali Velshi is on the road in southern Illinois.
And I loved that town hall meeting that you conducted yesterday, Ali. You know, and I'm often accused of always looking to the positive, rosy and rose-colored glasses, but, you know, it's the way I live my life, and so be it. But I have a real sense that we are starting to turn the corner on a lot of the real anger and heat and we're starting to get at the real issues here. And let's keep in mind that those -- that real input on real issues should help inform the representatives when they go back to Washington. Am I close to being correct on this?
VELSHI: I think you're very correct on that, Tony. That's exactly how I'm feeling. We have people coming up to this bus, on both sides of this issue. They're not all in support of reforming health care or the way the government wants to do it, but we're having real discussions.
I had a woman just moments ago come up to me before we pulled out of Benton, Illinois, saying to me that she's been a nurse for 30 years. Her daughter stopped getting health insurance after she moved out of the house to go to college, got pneumonia. She's still trying to pay for those bills. The daughter can't get health insurance.
But the bottom line is, even those like you saw in that town hall meeting, which was entirely organic, we just pulled up to Paducah and people came to talk to us, the restaurant across the street brought us chairs. Even those who were opposed to it, the type of discussion, the civility and the respect in the discussion we had was very different than what you're hearing in some of those town halls.
HARRIS: OK. And, very quickly, because I don't want the shot to freeze up, I love the fact that it was sort of impromptu. You show up in the Express and organically this comes together. Are you on the FaceBook -- I'm sorry, are you on Facebook? Are you twittering? Where are you going to be so folks can join you?
VELSHI: Yes, we're generally twittering the route we're taking. So we've headed from Benton, Illinois. We're headed toward east St. Louis and St. Louis, Missouri, right now. Sometimes we've got an advance car that goes ahead to tell us where the bus might pull over. But that's all the warning anybody gets. We pull up and people start talking to us. So you can follow us at Ali Velshi on Twitter at CNN Express, or go to my FaceBook page, alivelshicnn and you can follow our route. And, of course, every time we get something, Tony, we're going to give it to you so you can put the word out there about what Americans are worrying about it.
HARRIS: And there's the music. Ali Velshi taking it to the streets. We love it. We love that you're doing this for us. Good to see you, Ali. Appreciate it. Thanks.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, government officials want to track who is using their Web sites. Is this a case of big brother out of control?
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HARRIS: Sarah Palin's resignation as governor of Alaska may be taking a toll on her poll numbers. A new CNN/Opinion Research survey found Palin's favorable rating has dropped seven percentage points since May. Thirty-nine percent of all Americans say they have a favorable view of Palin. Her favorable rating among Republicans is down as well. That number has plummeted 16 points since May to 64 percent. It's worth noting, this was done before Palin's blistering remarks on health care. Those comments were made on her FaceBook page last weekend.
The White House is fighting off big brother accusations after it proposed a plan to track the government Web sites you visit. Here's CNN's Brooke Baldwin.
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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House, playing the role of America's advocate or big brother? Proposed changes in the federal government's online privacy rules have set off alarm bells in certain circles. At issue, a proposal to reverse a decade-old ban on the tracking of users who visit government Web sites. The tracking technology, known as a cookie, keeps information about computers and users who visit Web sites. The White House says that just like cookies facilitate communication on social networking Web sites, they would help government be more accessible and transparent. The American Civil Liberties Union agrees, but argues . . .
MICHAEL MACLEOD-BALL, ACLU: There can also be certain precautions taken so that people are confident that their personal Internet usage patterns are not being collected and stored and used by the government for some perhaps nefarious purpose.
BALDWIN: The White House says it understands these concerns. Government Spokesman Kenneth Bazr says, "any update of current policy will balance the need to use new web 2.0 technologies to open up government with the imperative to protect privacy."
This comes just days after some criticized a White House blog posting that advised users, "if you get an e-mail or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy," e-mail us. Critics worry the move could stifle free speech.
CROWD: Yes, we can.
BALDWIN: And could be an attempt to gather names of supporters for political purposes. The White House insists, it's no big brother.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Nobody's collecting names.
BALDWIN: But if the government is doing no wrong, then the non- profit Electronic Privacy Information Center has this question . . .
JOHN VERDI, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: What's the justification for the alteration of the policy? Clearly the government's intending to do something with them. At this point, they're either unwilling or unable to tell us what.
BALDWIN: Brooke Baldwin, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: GM has cut back its dealers. Now it wants to sell you cars online.
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HARRIS: General Motors is taking its road to recovery online. It's launched a new marketing strategy on eBay. So, if you're looking to buy a new car, this may be an option for you. Our Dan Simon explains.
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DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could call it electronic haggling. Two hundred and twenty-five dealers, just in California for now, are putting their new inventories on eBay. You won't find Cadillacs there. The company apparently doesn't want to cheapen the brand. You will find the company's other cars and SUVs, like the popular Chevy Equinox.
SIMON (on camera): Is there much room for negotiation, or did you try to price them at the buy-it-now category?
FRANK FRAGOMENI, STEWART CHEVROLET: Some cars are priced at buy it now. Some cars are priced to be able to negotiate them.
SIMON: And you don't want to tip your hat necessarily right here on CNN and tell . . .
FRAGOMENI: Not necessarily.
SIMON (voice-over): But consumers might feel more empowered making their purchase through eBay. The site shows potential buyers what different dealers are asking for the exact same car.
ROB CHESNEY, EBAY: We have great expectations for the program with the fact that we'll be offering consumers some of the most competitive prices that they've ever seen on GM inventory and the fact that we're doing it in this kind of new and very compelling way for consumers we think will be a great combination.
SIMON: GM's use of eBay is temporary. The program lasts for about a month. But if successful, it plans to extend the partnership and launch it nationwide.
The company, meanwhile, is seeing some positive signs elsewhere. It's had more sales than any other automaker under the Cash for Clunkers program. An 18 percent share according to the Transportation Department.
And the company is getting a lot of buzz over its highly anticipated electric car, the Volt, which launches late next year. GM says it will get up to an unprecedented 230 miles per gallon.
SIMON (on camera): As for the eBay/GM partnership, selling cars online, of course, is nothing new, but this is the first time an automaker has done it in such a well publicized fashion. As for why GM chose California, well, this is a state where they've struggled in recent years and they're hoping this will help turn things around.
Dan Simon, CNN, Colma, California.
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HARRIS: You know, some people have called Detroit a food desert, where it's easier to buy liquor than lettuce. Could urban farming be the answer? CNNmoney.com's Poppy Harlow has our "Breakdown" from New York.
Good to see you, Poppy.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Good to see you, Tony.
You know, we've been spending a lot of time in Detroit. And before I'd been there, I'd never heard of this urban farming, but it's catching on in Detroit. You're looking at a city with 140 square miles and a population that has fallen from about 2 million in the 1950s to about just 830,000 today. So needless to say, there's a lot of empty space in Detroit. And that has more and more people talking about this idea of urban farming. It's essentially these large community gardens where people grow their own food. Right in the middle of the city.
And we stopped by one. It's run by a foundation called Earthworks. It's two acres and they produce about 7,000 pounds of food a year. I think we have some video we can show you here of that. But this all plays into the fact that there's a major problem of access for food in Detroit.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
HARLOW: You have no independent chain grocery stores there anymore. You've got some smaller supermarkets, but no big chain grocery stores in the entire city of Detroit. It's caused a big problem. Take a listen to one person explain that.
All right, we don't have that sound for you, which is too bad. But what they're talking about here is the fact that you've got a lot of kids in the city with no access to this healthy food. When we were there, we had a hard time finding many places to get breakfast outside of McDonald's, Tony. So, that's a big problem. And you also have reports of more and more people applying for food stamps and more and more people going into these food banks, Tony. So it's a big problem in Detroit. It's interesting to see the solution they're coming up with, which is urban farming, Tony.
HARRIS: Yes, absolutely. And that gets into this whole notion of co-ops as well. But you're talking about -- you're talking about unhealthy food, fast food chains, it goes on and on and on. And that leads many to talk about obesity.
Poppy, thank you so much. Got to skate because we need to get to the White House briefing with Robert Gibbs.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: But my sense is that people wanted to take the opportunity to find out from the president, to have him answer their questions about why he's doing what he's doing and the concerns they may have on the legislation.
That's why he asked, let's take some questions from those directly that have some concerns. At that point I think, you know, do you want to -- do you want to take that opportunity to have a discussion with the president of the United States about what he wants to see on health care reform? I think most people took that opportunity as something that was positive. I think it was a good conversation. I think the president thought it was a very productive conversation about the issues that we were dealing with.
And as Jake said, we -- we -- you know, the president, you know, went out of his way to bring up, in fact, some of the misinformation that churns out there in order to address it, because I think, obviously, he understands he has a pulpit that is large enough to deal with some of the misinformation that some people might not ordinarily ask or inquire about, because they've read it somewhere and they just assume that it's true, even if it's not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does he think is the biggest obstacle to passing this legislation?
GIBBS: The special interests.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is . . .
GIBBS: The people that want to keep the status quo. The people that believe that somehow what we have is working for the millions of Americans who are watching their health care premiums skyrocket every day, who are watching small businesses drop their coverage, who are part of the 12.5 million people over the past three years that have been told by an insurance company in seeking to buy insurance on the private market, that they're not eligible because of what somebody has decided there's a pre-existing condition. I think that would be what the president would believe is the greatest obstacle and has been for 40 years, are people that have a vested, in some senses, monetary interest in keeping things as they are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't it his fault (INAUDIBLE) that he's not getting the message across, this information . . .
GIBBS: Well, no, look, I don't think the president was under any illusion that with his presidency, with the ascendence of his presidency that would be the end of misinformation. I do think the president believes -- look, I'm sure there are communications experts that would tell you, well, anytime you're -- you know, what's the old thing? If you're explaining, you're losing. Well, I think the president believes these town halls provide an excellent opportunity to explain exactly what his ideas and principles are. And, more importantly, if he can effect misinformation by telling people what isn't in a piece of legislation, I think he'll take that opportunity.
Dan (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition to the town halls and the Web site to knock down these myths, is the White House considering other venues to try to correct the record, if you will?
GIBBS: I don't -- I don't -- specifically . . .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or you think you're doing anything else, or is there the need to do anything else (INAUDIBLE)?
GIBBS: Well, you know, we've got two town halls later in the week, one in Montana, one in Colorado. And then the president has -- he'll be back here for a bit and some down time with his family. Look, I don't doubt we'll take this battle up in some earnestness in September, but I don't think there are any specific venue announcements.
Again, I think the president believes the format of the town hall, and the ability to discuss directly with people what their cares and concerns are, he finds to be and always has been tremendously valuable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is there any concern at all that if this misinformation machine continues and the record can't be corrected, as the White House would like it to be, that it could potentially make it more difficult to get health care reform across the aisle (ph) . . .
GIBBS: Well, look, if the debate is dominated by something that's not true, of course. I don't think the president believes, though, that when all is said and done, that most people will make their decisions on something that is false and something that has been said is false. But, you know, I rant on cable a little bit, Dan, as you in your exhaling noted in answering another question. You know, take a couple questions at a town hall meeting. You guys, Lord knows, have shown enough video of people with concerns about the bill. Take one of those concerns and address its factualness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do you think now that so much attention is being focused on the myths and debunking the myths, that that, in essence, will help you?
GIBBS: I do. I think if people believe, for some reason, that this plan is government-controlled health care -- which it's not -- if the president can address that each time he goes out there and more and more people believe the truth, then, sure, that helps -- I think that helps the prospect of millions to see health care reform this year.
Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seemed yesterday the president, speaking (INAUDIBLE) really wanted soliciting tough questions and casting about for a real skeptic in the audience and not really finding one, (INAUDIBLE) maybe one or two.
GIBBS: I'm not sure . . . UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I mean, there was the one Republican and then the guy at the end with his hands up.
GIBBS: Well, I mean I -- I did read in a few leads yesterday afternoon that the president addressed skeptics of his health care plan. But maybe that was . . .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, maybe it was 100 percent great. I don't know, it seemed that way.
GIBBS: No, no, no, I'm just -- I'm pointing out that, at least yesterday afternoon, the perception among many of the stories I read was that the president had addressed some skeptics.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. In the -- he was asking the audience, who's a skeptic. He seemed to be soliciting tougher questions.
GIBBS: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, to the extent that there weren't as many of those folks present as we've seen in other town halls, not necessarily yellers, but people who have legitimate concerns, is there anything that you guys can do going forward as you approach these town halls to get an audience that's more representative of divergent views. For example . . .
GIBBS: Well, I don't -- well, first of all, I don't know how many question the president took yesterday, eight. I don't know how many we'd say were people that were -- at least the last two, because he took those from that. I don't remember -- I guess the Republican was one of those two, right? The guy who said he didn't know why he was here. There was the gentlemen, I think the third question -- I was sitting on the left-hand side, so it would have been on the right-hand side, the question about Medicaid and Lipitor.
Again, I don't -- that's at least three of the eight questions as not being -- that were in some ways skeptical. What I'm saying is, I don't -- I'm not assuming that the audience wasn't in some ways representative. Again, I sense disappointment that he didn't get yelled at. But I think there were a number of people in there that had concerns and wanted to ask the president directly. I think we're going to continue to pick people randomly to come to a town hall meeting, and, you know, they'll raise their hand. The president will answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The smaller faction of the audience was --
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And that sets up the top of the hour.
