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What Would Public Health Plan Mean for Public?; Texas Judge Investigated for Misconduct; Robert Novak Dead at 78; Asia on Mend from Recession; Afghanistan Trying to Prevent Voter Intimidation

Aired August 18, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with our own Kyra Phillips -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Drew, thanks so much.

We're pushing forward on public health care. Critics call it a government takeover of private insurance. Democrats call it an indispensable option. Our Elizabeth Cohen checks the facts.

Death Row deadlines. A Texas judge is on trial for turning her back on a tardy appeal. The execution went on as scheduled.

And who's maxing out your credit cards? It may not be you, and that may be the least of your troubles. This hour, news you can use to protect your name and numbers.

Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Preferable, not essential. The bottom line from the White House on a so-called public option. A government-run health plan that would compete with private plans and supposedly drive down costs.

At least for today, President Obama is letting others do his public pitching. Among them, Health Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who on Sunday seemed to make a big concession to conservative who retrect [SIC] -- reject, rather, what they call a government takeover of health care.

Here's Sebelius today, speaking to a Medicare conference, followed by her comments Sunday on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: All I can tell you is that Sunday must have been a very slow news day. Because here's the bottom line: absolutely nothing has changed. We continue to support the public option that will help lower costs, give American consumers more choice, and keep private insurers honest. If people have other ideas about how to accomplish these goals, we'll look at those, too.

But the public option is a very good way to do this.

And I think what's important is choice and competition, and I'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those, but that is not the essential element.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: But let me just quite simply, so the public option is not a deal breaker from the president's standpoint?

SEBELIUS: Well, I think there will be a competitor to private insurers. That's really the essential part, is -- is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. We need some choices. We need some competition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: So, what might a public option really mean? CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, shows and tells at the magic wall.

Now, Elizabeth, what would a government health plan look like?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Kyra. Right now, we want to give people the facts about a public option, public health insurance.

Let's take a look at the basics. Basically, what we're talking about is the government would be paying for this health insurance. They'd be funding it. They'd be administering it.

Really, Kyra, it is similar to Medicare. We're all familiar with Medicare. That is basically a government-sponsored health care -- health insurance program for anyone over age 65. You could think of this public option in a way as health-care insurance, publicly funded for the rest of us.

PHILLIPS: So, what's the big concern?

COHEN: Well, the big concern is this: the premiums for this public option are expected to be about 10 to 20 percent lower than what you would have to pay for private insurance. Now, sounds good, right? I mean, who can argue with something that costs less?

But the concern is -- is that because it costs less, employers are going to say, "Wow, let's switch to that. I'm going to ditch my private insurance and ensure my employees through this public program."

Now, the folks who wrote those bills have explained to me, "Look, we've set it up so that big employers can't do that. They can't join the public option, at least in the beginning."

But then the other side says, "Well, but eventually those private insurance companies are going to have a hard time competing."

PHILLIPS: All right. So what would it mean for real people, bottom line?

COHEN: All right. We've designed two real people. We call our first one John. And so we were wondering will the public option help John? And I think the answer here is very clear. It will definitely help him.

The reason why? Take a look at John's back. He's got a bad back. Insurance companies, said, "Sorry, John, can't insure you." This happens in real life. An insurance company can actually say, :You know, we're not going to insure you because you've got a bad back." So he'll definitely be helped.

But let's take a look at somebody else. We call her Susie. Will the public option help Susie? You can see Susie is sort of corporate America here. She works for a big company. And you know what? The public option really won't help her. It won't really affect her at all. It won't do anything, and the reason for that, is that her employer probably won't even be allowed to join it.

So, the public option means different things for different people.

PHILLIPS: Elizabeth Cohen, appreciate it.

COHEN: Thanks.

PHILLIPS: If you have a thought, a rant, a question, on public options or anything else regarding health care, here's a few of the towns where lawmakers are actually listening today.

But here's a heads up: Texas Congressman Gene Green is now requiring I.D.'s at his town-hall meetings. He blames, quote, "a coordinated effort to disrupt some previous meetings."

And health reform opponents don't have the street corners to themselves anymore. More than halfway through this make-or-break month, reform supporters are showing up and speaking out. More about that in our next hour.

And if you want to know more about health-care debate and how reform could affect you and your family, check out the special "Health Care in America" Web site on CNN.com. You can get the latest from the town-hall debates, fact checks, iReports. You can even read the bills. Just go to CNN.com/healthcare.

The name, Sharon Keller. Her critics call her Sharon Killer. The Texas judge now on the other side of the bench, fighting for her career.

She's accused of misconduct, of costing a condemned man his last- minute appeal. Today's day two of the state's fact-finding trial in San Antonio. And Judge Keller says she will take the stand and defend herself.

Some background on the case now from James Munoz of our affiliate KENS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JAMES MUNOZ, KENS REPORTER (voice-over): Judge Sharon Keller was first elected to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals in 1994. Today she's at the center of a rare hearing to gather facts. A commission will review the findings to determine whether or not Judge Keller responded appropriately to attorneys who tried to file a last-minute stay of execution.

On September 25, 2007, Michael Richard was to be executed at 6 p.m. He was convicted in the 1986 sexual assault and shooting death of Marguerite Dixon. That morning the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review lethal injection practices. Attorneys for Richard wanted to request a stay of execution, but were told the clerk's office closed at 5 p.m. Richard was executed at 8:20.

SCOTT COBB, TEXAS MORATORIUM NETWORK: The U.S. Supreme Court was not able to, based on their own rules, to issue a stay, even though they issued a stay on the next person who the court case came to them and the one after that. And there were no more executions for another seven months.

MUNOZ: The case has energized groups against the death penalty.

Inside the courtroom the only goal is to hold Judge Keller accountable if, in fact, she failed to uphold death penalty policies in Texas.

(on camera) A commission will review the findings from this hearing. They could issue a public censure, dismiss the case or recommend the judge be removed.

In Texas, James Munoz for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Now, CNN's Ed Lavandera has been working this story, as well. He's actually putting together a piece for "THE SITUATION ROOM" today.

Ed, how are folks in Texas reacting to this whole situation right now?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As that piece alluded to, this has obviously drawn a lot of interest from those who oppose the death penalty. Of course, Texas a lightning-rod state for this issue, as well.

But you know, there's also a great deal of support for this judge, who has been elected several times since 1994, extremely popular. Seen as someone who is a victims' advocate, so she's also getting a great deal of support from that side of the debate, as well.

PHILLIPS: So, what kind of punishment could she face? And could she lose her job?

LAVANDERA: Well, she can. There are several things that can happen. The charges can be dismissed. There's five charges of misconduct against her in all. She could be censured or she could be removed from her office. She's the highest-ranking criminal judge in Texas, and part of that, if it does go that far, she could also be kept from being a judge at all on any level here in the state of Texas.

PHILLIPS: So, what do you think? The whole death penalty debate, is it firing up?

LAVANDERA: You know, having grown up and lived in Texas for so long...

PHILLIPS: It's also a fiery issue.

LAVANDERA: It is a fiery issue but, you know, but you talk to a lot of people here, and it almost seems like, while there is an intense opposition to the death penalty here in Texas, it has probably far more overwhelming support, but it does generate a great deal of interest. I've been down to the death chamber in Huntsville, Texas, several times, and it always seems like there are news media crews from around the world who are coming here to do stories.

So, as much interest and as much as people talk about it here, it also generates far more interest from around the world as people watch how this is handled here in this state.

PHILLIPS: We'll watch it, too. Ed Lavandera, thanks.

You can watch Ed's full report with Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION." That will be in the 6 p.m. hour Eastern Time, by the way.

Now, a lot of you guys already weighing in with your verdict. Let's go ahead and start with a tweet from right there in the Lone Star State.

TRHogan says, "It's Texas. She'll probably get a medal for saving overhead court costs. Texas, it's a police-state of mind."

Similar sentiments from DwayneWA: "The Texas judicial system is above the law, or did we all forget that? Wink, wink."

And a more political bent from CrayonColors, who says, "I can't figure out the conservatives' 'right to life' issues. I think they just must be pro-birth, not pro-life. The judge's quote, 'We close at 5,' appalling."

Thanks, guys. Now that everybody's heard more about the story, why don't you shoot us your tweet at KyraCNN?

Robert Novak, a lion among conservative columnists and a fixture on CNN for years, died today of cancer. He was 78 years old. Novak was a key figure in the Valerie Plame/CIA leak case, and for years the co-host of the CNN program "CROSSFIRE."

Tom Foreman looks back at the life of a man who was on the front lines when it came to reporting political news.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bob Novak was in high school when he got his first reporting job. He worked his way through several Midwest newspapers and eventually landed in Washington, D.C., where his dogged pursuit of leads and rapidly- expanding list of contacts led to an early break from a competitor, Roland Evans.

ROBERT NOVAK, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: It was a news column, six days a week. He couldn't do it himself, they told him. They told him to get a partner. I was then 31 years old, and that was the birth of the "Evans/Novak" column.

FOREMAN: Roland Raleigh (ph) Evans and Robert Novak wrote "Inside Report" for 30 years, on everything from Watergate to Iran Contra. The pair earned respect and fear from official Washington.

TED TURNER, MEDIA MOGUL: We should be on the air at 6 p.m. as predicted.

FOREMAN: So, in 1980, when Ted Turner had this idea for a 24- hour news network, Evans and Novak were there. Reporting -- solid, old-fashioned reporting -- was the core of all of his programs. And there were many.

ANNOUNCER: "CROSSFIRE."

GRAPHIC: The Capital Gang.

Novak/Hunter.

FOREMAN: He was at the conventions, digging up stories.

NOVAK: I've been told by the Reagan people that both Ronald Reagan and Gerald Ford will come to the hall tonight.

FOREMAN: Confronting the powerful...

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was a litany of questions.

NOVAK: Yes, but that was one of them.

BUSH: I don't understand. But it was one of three or four, and I had about 30 seconds to answer. So give me -- the answer's I want to keep the platform the same.

FOREMAN: ... and taking no prisoners on the political battlefield.

NOVAK: Why did you laugh over the death of an American service member?

MICHAEL KINSLEY, FORMER CO-HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": Don't be a demagogue. I did not laugh. I'm sitting in for Tom Braydon. Good night from "CROSSFIRE." NOVAK: On the tape you laughed.

FOREMAN: But those who worked with him give a very different picture of the off-screen Bob Novak.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a really warm-hearted guy. A neat guy, who cared a lot about the people that worked with him, cared a lot about the people who worked for him. And if you were a friend of Bob Novak's, you couldn't have a better friend.

FOREMAN: In 2005, Bob Novak left the channel he'd helped to build.

NOVAK: I want to thank CNN for making this network available to me for 25 years. Never censured me once, ever.

FOREMAN: Bob Novak was a man who fiercely enjoyed life. His nickname, the Prince of Darkness, was not invented by his enemies, but by his friends, of which there were many. They knew that his pessimism about politicians never clouded an unbounded optimism about his country and his profession.

Tom foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Hurricane Bill could be a major storm by week's end, and that's got a lot of folks concerned. Chad Myers tracking Bill, and he'll show us what the forecast models are predicting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: "Things That Make you Go Hmm")

PHILLIPS: Just like the song, things that make you go hmm. Well, this fall's new college freshman came on the scene in the early '90s and, well, would you believe for this class of 2013, the KGB has never official existed?

One fun tidbit from Beloit College's annual mindset list.

Listen to these other cultural notes. For these guys, the green giant has always been Shrek, not the vegetable pitchman. Britney Spears has always been on classic rock stations. I just don't get that one. And these kids have grown up with flat-screen TVs, and playing on those TVs all their lives, condom ads.

Check out all 75 items from this year's mindset list on our blog, CNN.com/Kyra.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, some residents of the Caribbean including Cuba are considering themselves pretty lucky right now. They've escaped serious damage from their brush with Ana. What's left of the first named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season is now dumping heavy rain on Cuba and the island of Hispaniola, but it could have been a lot worse.

Forecasters are concerned that the system could regroup and become a tropical storm again after it passes through the Florida Keys later this week.

And east of the Caribbean, something serious to worry about. The Atlantic season's first hurricane, Bill, is churning toward the region. And right now, there's no way to really know for sure where it's heading.

Chad Myers is tracking the big storm in the CNN severe weather center.

Hey, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know, Kyra, we know two to three days out which way this thing's going, but people expect -- people expect -- the ten-day forecast to be accurate. And literally, the hurricane center will tell you, after five days we could be 300 miles left or 300 miles to the right. That's why we put this in a cone in the first place. And stop looking at the line that is out there and begin to look at the cone.

There's 105-mile-per-hour winds, 125-mile-per-hour gusts. A very distinct-looking eye right in the middle of Bill. It was a little bit bigger earlier; it got smaller for a while; and now it's bigger again. Think about an ice skater that has her arms or -- arms in or out. If the arms are out, and the eye is bigger, the storm doesn't go as fast. Arms are in, that figure skater goes very, very fast in a big circle. Well, these circles could be -- could be larger later on in the forecast. Category 3, and, in fact, even some models taking it up to nearly a Category 4 hurricane strength of over 130 miles per hour. We'll have to see.

I know you were just mentioning this about Cuba, so I'll take you to this. This is what was left of Ana. It does not have a name. It's not a depression. It's nothing but now a large flare-up of cloud cover, and that cloud cover is heading now across the Florida Straits, and then really this weather could get itself back into a very warm- water mass. That's the Gulf of Mexico.

And if that does happen, if it holds together at all, as it gets over this Cuba area, we could see something back in the Gulf of Mexico. Some of the computer models are now doing that for what would be renamed Ana, because it's still kind of -- it still was always there. I don't believe that they had given a new name because they knew that the cloud mass was always there. You would have to see that, though. But that could be it for the weekend. You know that water, you know what it did to Claudette, how quickly that popped back up over the weekend, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: OK. We'll keep chatting. Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, if you're in college, here's a question for you. How's your Mandarin? See why you might want to learn China's official language.

Plus, death at Disney World, the third in recent weeks. We're going to have a live report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Cash for clunkers paying off for General Motors. Union officials say that the company is increasing hours at two plants, thanks to a sales boost from the government program. One day will be added to the workweek at the Lordstown, Ohio, plant. It cranks out the Chevy Cobalt, by the way.

Production also to increase at the Michigan plant that makes the Chevrolet -- Chevrolet Malibu and the Pontiac G-6.

Ford, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Chrysler also have boosted production due to the clunkers program.

Well, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, all of these Asian economic giants have one thing in common right now: all appear to have broken free of the global recession. All are export driven, so where does the U.S. play in their recovery, if at all?

CNN's Richard Quest joins us now live from Hong Kong. He's traveling all over the world for his take.

So, what do you make of it, Richard?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that is the conundrum. Because the traditional view had been that, without the U.S. consumer, places like the export-driven economies of Southeast Asia and Asia could not return to good growth.

Well, it appears to be not necessarily the case. Because of the vast -- and I mean hundreds of billions of dollars of stimulus cash that's been poured into this part of the world -- they've yanked themselves out of recession.

Whether, Kyra, it is sustainable, of course, is the big question. Because people still say here that even though Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea, China are growing, they will not get back to normal growth -- 6, 7, 8, 9 percent -- until the U.S. consumer, the American shopper, gets back in the stores.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD ARCULLI, CHAIRMAN, HONG KONG EXCHANGE: I would say it. I don't think they have. I don't think some of them have. I think some have. But some of have not.

QUEST: If that is right, they're destined for a phenomenal backlash. ARCULLI: I don't know. You know, greed is a powerful thing in this world and money, you know, feeds greed.

I think you haven't got a bad system in England, in the sense that I think up to a certain level or beyond a certain level, shareholders actually have to approve remuneration or packages, you know, to executives. You know, if the -- if the boards, you know, want to put forward certain package to the shareholders, that might be answered.

I don't like governmental interference if it can possibly be avoided because, you know, I don't think capitalism should die. Or should be dead, because, you know, we can't think of a way as to how to better, you know, government and better manage our financial sector.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now that is a fascinating point of view from Ronald Arculli, who is the chairman of the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

And not only do they have economic growth in this part of the world, but there, Kyra, you have a chairman of a stock exchange criticizing the bonus culture that has now come back into the financial world.

So, a totality, if you like, basically saying if the bankers do not start being responsible about bonuses, they'll find themselves in deep trouble with government regulators.

PHILLIPS: Well, yes, and it was those bonuses that caused us such a huge problem here in the U.S.

Well, let's talk about Beijing and Shanghai, these new job centers for American college graduates having trouble finding jobs here in the U.S. Are they just taking off and going over there?

QUEST: Well, first of all, they've got to have the necessary visas. I think there is a perception.

In the old days, you know, when I was growing up and going through college, the idea was you went out and got a Russian degree or you learned to speak Russian. Nowadays you've got to learn to speak Mandarin.

And what a lot of American students are doing is forgetting that important little fact. They see the 8, 9 percent economic growth of China. They believe, of course, like Hong Kong, it's English speaking or at least it's relatively western in its environment. And they forget -- now, look, I've been to China several times, and I can tell you, once you go away from the major cities, even in places like Shanghai, if you don't have a command of Mandarin, you're going to find yourself in deep water, very deep water! You won't get very far. In fact, you'll get nowhere at all!

So, to those American students who suddenly believe, ah, economic nirvana, it has to be China! Get back to the books. Mandarin is the fruit of choice.

PHILLIPS: Well, I understand your, I guess, fruit of choice is a new suit? You've been out shopping, I understand, getting to know the Hong Kong tailors?

QUEST: The Hong Kong tailors are famous for one thing, well, beside anything else, and that is, they'll make you a suit pretty much overnight. Whether it lasts until the end of the week and you don't end up running around in your skivvies is another matter.

But we've put it to the test. Today, I went out, and I was measured up by a Hong Kong tailor. One of the big tailors that goes to various cities like London, Paris, New York. People go to the hotel suite. They get all, you know, measured up and trussed up, and then you go out and you actually, they -- a week later the suit arrives.

Tomorrow night, you will see me in my new suit, which, incidentally, before anybody casts aspersions, I will have paid for.

PHILLIPS: Yes, I would hope that you will be fully dressed, as well. Richard Quest, we look forward to it tomorrow. Thank you.

Well, a store clerk asked for your personal security number when you use your credit card, so when do you say no? Well, that's a serious question if you're worried about having your identity stolen. We're going to hear what an expert has to say, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, here's a story that will make you think twice about who you give your personal information to. It's the biggest credit card breach in U.S. history. 130 million stolen credit card account numbers.

Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with the details.

Now, Susan, how can a person actually get his or her hands on that much private information?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, you have to be really, really good, you do. And by all accounts this guy was a Rembrandt in his field. His name is Albert Gonzalez. He's 28 years old, high school graduate, self-taught programmer with a long history. In fact, one of the names of a previous smaller operation was Get Rich or Die Trying.

He and two unnamed co-conspirators allegedly hacked in to corporate computer networks, secretly put malicious software on them which allowed backdoor access to steal the data and that's how you get to 130 million accounts.

Ironically, kyra, when the theft was uncovered, Gonzalez was already in jail because of the aforementioned history that I was talking about. For instance, the TJX credit card theft case -- we talked a lot about that last year -- that was a mere 40 million accounts. That's one of his scams. And he faces a lot of time for that one and another 20 years if he's convicted in this one -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So, Susan, do we know any details on what he actually did with the accounts? Were they sold and then used?

LISOVICZ: Well, certainly the intent was to make a lot of money on it, and prosecutors say the goal was to sell the data.

But the thing about these kind of scams -- identity theft -- is that you really don't know the reach until you start hearing from the consumers themselves. Your account may be compromised. The number may have stolen. It's when you start utilizing that. We don't know just yet.

We do know, prosecutors say, that they targeted 7-Eleven, Haniford Brothers, which is a regional grocery chain based in the Northeast, and perhaps, most importantly, Heartland Payment Systems, which is a huge credit and debit card processor.

So, I guess the one big caveat here is for everyone is to continue to check your bills and -- and make -- and take note of anything that seems out of the ordinary.

PHILLIPS: That's a good point. I don't know if you do, but I do -- actually --

LISOVICZ: I certainly do.

PHILLIPS: -- since you're reporting, I'm much more vigilant about doing that.

Susan, do me a favor and stick around, because you might have some questions for our next guest. He's actually got information on how we can protect ourselves from identity theft.

Joining us now from San Diego, Jay Foley with the Identity Theft Resource Center.

And, Jay, you probably heard Susan's report there and are up on this story. I guess a lot of us, just talking in our morning meeting this morning, some say they absolutely don't do certain things. Others, like even for me, I give that security number on my card all the time because I thought it's just something that you need to do in order to make a purchase.

So, tell me, what do you definitely not have to give when you're using your credit card?

JAY FOLEY, IDENTITY THEFT RESOURCE CENTER: When you're using your credit card in the store, you have it right there, and you're actually swiping it through the machine, there is no reason to give the three digit security code. That code is for online transactions when the card is not present.

PHILLIPS: So, only online do you need -- so, when they say, what's your security code, you can say, I'm sorry -- I mean, how do you do it without insulting them, and can you still get your purchase? FOLEY: In most cases you can still get your purchase. If there's a company that refuses, ask to speak to the manager. There's no legitimate reason for them to ask for that code if you're standing right there with the card in their presence.

PHILLIPS: So, how do you -- then what do you need -- then is just showing an I.D. OK?

FOLEY: Just showing an I.D. would be fine. Just physically showing the card would be fine.

PHILLIPS: OK. What about when they ask for phone numbers and e- mails?

FOLEY: Well, phone numbers and e-mails, what they're trying to do there is they're gathering a marketing list. They're also trying to decide where their customer base is coming from. Decline to give both of those if you do not wish to be bothered by the e-mails that they're going to send out, or, if you want to be identified as to where you live.

PHILLIPS: There's something else that you pointed out that I thought was interesting -- and also, Susan, jump in if you have a question, OK?

LISOVICZ: Sure will.

PHILLIPS: OK. You were saying, Jay, that don't ever use a debit card, just use an ATM card. Yes, you smile. But you know what? When's the last time we ever asked for an ATM card. It seems like everybody has a debit card nowadays.

FOLEY: Not everybody. I carry an ATM card. I fight with my bank every year to make sure that I maintain an ATM card.

A debit card is a nice, convenient card. However, there's a problem with it. I can take your debit card, I can use it for purchases just by hitting the credit button instead of the debit. I no longer need your PIN number. And I can overdraft your account rather rapidly by doing that method leaving you holding the bag.

If I use a credit card for my purchases, it's lost, it's copied, it's cloned, whatever, I'm only responsible for the first $50 in loss. On a debit card, those standards are not mandated by federal law.

PHILLIPS: Anything else we may not think about or -- Susan, were you going to ask a question?

LISOVICZ: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Go ahead.

LISOVICZ: You know, I think that all the information you're giving is very helpful, Jay, for us to be more careful with the personal information that we give out. But in this particular case, where we're talking about 130 million accounts, we don't have any evidence that consumers did anything wrong. It was a couple or three supremely sophisticated computer programs.

How do you protect yourself against that?

FOLEY: You don't. Where this is the consumers not fault, the consumers aren't even part of this. Where this problem truly exists, these are the businesses that collect the data. These are the businesses that process the transactions. They did not value and protect the data well enough. The hackers attacked them.

LISOVICZ: So, you're scot-free as a consumer?

FOLEY: As a consumer, where the cost of this came in, all the banks and credit unions and credit card companies that had cards that were exposed in this, have had to replace them. They're the ones that have had to foot the bill. The minute this theft was discovered, these fraudulent charges started popping up, they ended up having to go out and replace millions of credit cards, millions of debit cards.

PHILLIPS: Sounds like all three of us need to put our heads together with all our various backgrounds and think of a way to try to prevent this, because it sounds like right now we're pretty well hosed, you know, when something like this happens.

Jay, before we let you go, just anything that we didn't bring up? Any kind of news you can use that today to protect ourselves?

FOLEY: Well, the key thing is be very wary with where you're using your cards and how you're using them. And if you're going to be shopping online, I suggest you look for a secure payment agent process. They're available. There's more of them coming out. There's a very good one that was just released a couple weeks ago. Check them out. Test them out. They will protect you from giving your information to a merchant that's going to hold and it possibly lose it. But at the same time they guarantee the merchant's going to get paid for the purchase.

PHILLIPS: Got it. And also go to your web site, too, idtheftcenter.org.

Jay, Susan, thanks guys.

LISOVICZ: My pleasure.

FOLEY: My pleasure.

PHILLIPS: A death sign, not a Hollywood movie set, but Disney World, in Orlando, Florida. We're going to take you there live, for the latest on a case.

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PHILLIPS: So, if you're hoping to get a swine flu shot a couple of months from now when the vaccine is available, you might be pretty disappointed. The government says only 45 million doses will be ready in mid-October. That's far less than the 120 million doses expected. Twenty million more will arrive each week after that until the full order, 195 million doses, is reached. The delay is blamed on manufacturing issues.

Michael Jackson will be buried on what would have been his 51st birthday. A spokesperson for the family says the private burial will take place on August 29th at the Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale, California. Guests will be limited to family and close friends.

It's kind of late to do anything about it now, but it's good to know anyway. What might have led to a legendary composer's premature death. Let's put it this way, it's something you've probably had at least once.

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PHILLIPS: Two U.S. soldiers killed in eastern Afghanistan, a suicide bombing in Kabul, a rocket attack against the presidential palace, all of this happening today, just two days before Afghanistan's presidential election. All have the markings of the Taliban, and CNN's Atia Abawi is in the Afghan capital.

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ATIA ABAWI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Afghans are just two days away from their second-ever presidential elections. And as that day approaches, violence continues to increase. The first incident we saw this morning was when two rockets were launched into the capital of Kabul, one hitting the presidential compound. It did not hit the president's home itself, but it was in the vicinity.

Another incident we saw was in central Afghanistan, when a suicide bomber attacked an ANA checkpoint, that's the Afghan National Army, killing at least four soldiers and three civilians. And then back in Kabul earlier this afternoon, another car bomb exploding, killing at least seven people and injuring 53. Among those seven, two U.N. local nationals.

This, again, two days before the Afghan presidential elections. These are tactics by the Taliban to intimidate the Afghan people from going out to actually vote. And it's working.

Just four days ago there was another car bomb in the capital of Kabul. When I spoke to a victim, a 21-year-old young lady, she told me that she had a voting card, she was going to go out and vote, but because of that blast, that made the decision for her, and she refuses to go to the polls on Thursday.

Atia Abawi, CNN, Kabul.

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PHILLIPS: The battles don't end when the soldiers come home. We're pushing forward on the stress and strain of service in Iraq and Afghanistan and the toll it takes on military families. Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports next hour.

And this mayor doesn't just talk the talk, he walks the walk. And Saturday night he paid the price. We'll update the case and the condition of Milwaukee Mayor turned hero Tom Barrett.

Well, first, they said that he was poisoned. Then it was syphilis, then maybe bloodletting, even a bad pork dinner. Mozart's been dead for more than 200 years, and since then, there have probably been that many theories about what killed him at the young age of 35.

Well, add another one to the pile and probably the least dramatic yet. Researchers now thinking that strep throat silenced the composer. They went beyond the symptoms and looked at the death patterns in Vienna circa 1791. Yes, sounds like Amadeus just needed an antibiotic.

L.A.'s infamous gang problem. One man was doing something about it, and it was working -- turning gangsters into legit and successful citizens. Now his program is in big, big trouble.

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PHILLIPS: Murders, robberies, drive-by shootings. Right now, more than 20,000 gang members terrorize the streets of Los Angeles. You may remember Dennis Hopper's groundbreaking portrayal more than 20 years ago in the movie "Colors."

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PHILLIPS: But that same year this movie became a blockbuster, Father Greg Boyle became a blessing. He started Homeboy Industries. Father Boyle believed that nothing stops a bullet like a job. What started as a bakery became a mission where sworn enemies united and hardcore criminals found redemption.

As a reporter in Los Angeles, I came to know Father Boyle and Homeboy Industries and I can tell you firsthand, I saw how he made a difference.

David Oropeza, former gang-member is going to tell you about that in just a second.

But first, Father Boyle, your charity is $5 million in the red right now and you may be forced to shut your doors. Why?

REV. GREG BOYLE, HOMEBOY INDUSTRIES FOUNDER: Well, the recession has really certainly hit us in a deep way. So we're trying to do all that we can and shaking every tree we can.

We're the largest gang intervention program in the country. And so -- and we've become even larger given the economic need and the demand for jobs. So, we have 400 workers and 12,000 folks walk through our doors, 8,000 gang members from 800 different gangs all over L.A. County. So it's a daunting task and certainly it requires funding. It's an expensive prospect but it's costlier to imagine us closing our doors.

PHILLIPS: But I'll tell you what. It's an expensive program that is well worth it.

And David, that brings me to you. I mean, just looking at your rap sheet, you know, prison was pretty much your second home.

What was going on with you at a young age?

DAVID OROPEZA, FORMER GANG MEMBER: I just kind of -- that was the only life I knew at the time. I spent the majority of my life in getting involved in gangs and ended up in prison and kind of thought that was my destiny, that was all I had to live for, that was all I had to do.

And fortunately enough when I came home, you know, I was already tired of everything, tired -- it was a journey, now a life switch that I can say that actually changed me. I have this man right here who's now like a father-figure to me who gave me the opportunity and allowed me to see the me inside me. Not -- didn't change me to somebody I wasn't, changed me who was inside of me and I'm blessed to have this job.

PHILLIPS: And that's from -- just listening to you, David, you know, talk about quite a switch. I mean, you were first shot by a rival gang at the age of 11. I mean, your whole family, even the women, were involved in gangs.

I mean, what was a daily -- as a gang member, I mean, what did your day consist of on a regular basis?

OROPEZA: It all differed. Basically all negativity. It was just different things, just out there doing a bunch of negative things -- selling drugs, trying not to get shot and unfortunately doing other stupidity things.

But I kind of put that all behind me to try to move forward. And just blessed to have a place like this that's helping me to do that and sharing my stories with others and hopefully changing their lives.

PHILLIPS: So, let me ask you, David, what was it about Father Boyle that you believed in? I mean, what caused the switch, because you were running pretty hard.

OROPEZA: Well, he believed in me and actually made me believe in myself. I mean, he's helped me realize that we don't judge -- not so much as judge a book by its cover. But, we don't judge a book by its first chapter. My first chapter may have been not so great. But he's helped me see I have many chapters to go.

PHILLIPS: So, Father Boyle, why did you believe in David?

BOYLE: Well, you know, our place is a gang rehab center so it's not for those who need help, it's for those who want it. And David came in and he was persistent. He actually volunteered before I was able to hire him. So, you know, he showed to me that he was eager to redirect his life and leave behind all the stuff that had been holding him back up to that point. And he's proven himself to be a great, valued worker and somebody who teaches the younger folks who come through there and who participate in our curriculum.

PHILLIPS: And Father, just seeing how Homeboy Industries has grown in 20 years, I mean, it's remarkable how you bring these guys in and these women and you train them and you show them what it feels like just to have a great job, bring home a paycheck, feel good about what they are doing.

We're looking at video now of this program where they're actually installing solar panels and getting in on going green, which were brilliant.

If you were to shut down, if you were to close down, what does this mean for the streets of L.A.?

BOYLE: Well, I think it's consequential that we have been open. I think that it's part of the reasons why since 1992, we've been able to cut gang-related homicides in half and then some in L.A. County. So it's consequential the presence of Homeboy Industries and the county of L.A., where we have 1,100 gangs and 86,000 gang members.

So -- and we have five businesses where enemies work side by side with each other. So it's not for nothing. Those numbers have gone south since 1992. And certainly Homeboy is part of the reason why that's been part of the case.

So, again, it'll be costly if it has to fold. And I'm hopeful that people will respond and we won't have to.

PHILLIPS: Well, and that's what we really want to help you with, as well.

So, David and Father Boyle, we just want to plug the web site -- homeboy-industries.org.

And there you can actually make a donation at the virtual car wash. I understand, Father Boyle, when we talked about it on Friday, you got a lot of people to participate. I know you need a lot more.

And I also know that you're dealing with leukemia, as well. I hope you don't mind me saying something. But there's a lot of people praying for you and I think a lot of people -- David, you will agree -- you need Father Boyle and all of you need this program.

OROPEZA: Yes, we do.

BOYLE: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Yes, it's my pleasure. We wish you the best. And we encourage all of viewers to get on to that web site and to donate.

David, thanks so much. Father Boyle, appreciate you.

BOYLE: Thank you, Kyra. OROPEZA: Thank you.