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Consultation on Health Care; Politics and the Terror Alert

Aired August 21, 2009 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Betty, appreciate it. Have a great weekend. Thank you.

It is Friday, the 21st of August, and here are the top stories for you in the CNN NEWSROOM.

A bruising week in the health care fight. The president heads on vacation today, but with or without his reform mojo?

Car dealerships bracing for a hectic weekend. The government will put the Cash for Clunkers rebate program in park Monday night.

One of the last weekends of summer vacation season and how about this? Hurricane Bill whips up dangerous rip currents for the East Coast.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

President Obama gets a private consultation on health care reform. The president is meeting this hour with former senator Tom Daschle, his original choice to lead the push for a health care overhaul. The meeting follows a week of maneuvering and political back and forth.

Kate Bolduan live from the White House for us.

And Kate, great to see you.

The president getting ready to leave on vacation, but is taking every opportunity, it seems, to talk health care this morning.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Hey, there, Tony.

Well, the president, this morning, you basically hit the nail on the head. He is trying to move the debate forward on the health care reform issue.

This morning, this hour, meeting with former Senate majority leader Tom Daschle, the president's first choice to head up the Department of Health and Human Services, a long-time supporter of health care reform. Daschle remains an unofficial adviser to -- an informal adviser, I should say, to the White House on many issues.

This meeting will be closed to the press, but also on the agenda today, as usual, the daily White House briefing, where you will be sure more questions on where things stand in the health care debate. They will be being asked today.

And one of the major sticking points, Tony, continues to be the issue of the public option. Listen here to the president making the pitch for this public option at yesterday's town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is sort of like the belt and suspenders concept to keep up your pants. You know, the insurance reforms are the belt. The public option can be the suspenders. And what we're trying to just suggest to people is, is that all these things are important. And that if the debate ends up being focused on just one aspect of it, then we're missing the boat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, the administration says that this public option is preferred, but not mandatory. That statement, that stance is getting a lot of attention.

HARRIS: It sure is.

BOLDUAN: Conservatives, as you know, Tony, almost all of them, if not all, are very strongly opposed to a public option being included in any health care reform. But the president also faces some challenges trying to keep members of his own party in line in support of him because liberals, they really want a stronger stance, a stronger commitment on this issue. They would like to see a public option be a required element in any legislation.

Clearly, still a fine line. The president and the administration is needing to walk (ph) in order to appeal to both sides of this debate as the president heads out of town.

HARRIS: Absolutely.

Hey, Kate, one more quick one for you. You mentioned the president is leaving for vacation, but before he goes, he's going to make a statement this morning. Actually, I think it's this afternoon, it has been moved a bit.

What is he likely to talk about?

BOLDUAN: Well, the president, before he heads off to Camp David, we're told by the White House Press Office that he will be talking about the recent elections in Afghanistan. We haven't really heard -- we heard one very short statement from the president during -- when he was being interviewed on talk radio yesterday, but not much from the president on this issue. Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, during the briefing yesterday, did say just in part that the president is enormously proud of the Afghanis that turned out to vote despite the threat of violence, so we expect to hear more from the president this afternoon on that -- Tony.

HARRIS: OK. Kate Bolduan at the White House for us.

Kate, good to see you. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

HARRIS: You know, this has been a tumultuous week in the fight over health care reform. Political finger-pointing, maneuvering. So what now?

Joining us to talk about where the debate stands right now, Mike Allen. He is the chief White House correspondent for "Politico."

Mike, as always, good to talk to you.

I'm wondering -- we mentioned just a moment ago that the president is meeting with former senator Tom Daschle. Can the former senator help the president? And, if so, how?

MIKE ALLEN, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Well, sure. And as you know, he was originally going to be in charge of this effort, bringing a little heft and loft to health reform, which is something that is needed. The president has not been able to elevate it above the sort of give and take of Washington where it has dragged it down.

Now, the White House is convinced that if the president can reach normal people out in America, make them realize the ultimate goal here, to take it beyond this committee or that committee, that he'll get strong support. That's proven tough to do.

HARRIS: Yes. Mike, you mentioned that the president has had a difficult time sort of lifting the debate above all the noise we've heard so far in August. The suggestion has been that this has been something of a lost summer for the president because the debate has been bogged down on health care.

Is that your view?

ALLEN: Well, they have. And the problem was that things got off too slowly, and so members were sent out during this summer recess to defend something that was a little vague and that there was misinformation out there about. And it has coincided with something of a shift in the national mood, a little bit of a mood swing, where in "The Washington Post"/ABC News poll out today, we have a majority of people now saying the country is heading in the wrong direction.

Well, of course that's a big switch. One of the president's clear and biggest accomplishments was turning that around, getting the country to feel better about itself after he had been inaugurated.

HARRIS: Yes. You know, it's interesting, Mike, because it seems a couple of things here. The president clearly, initially in the strategy, wanted something crafted so that members could take the legislation and the bills to their constituents and talk about what was in it and get feedback. It seems that the strategy didn't shift, if at all, to the option of saying, hey, look, this is an opportunity now. We didn't get legislation written, and we didn't get it out of committee in many cases, but here is an opportunity for you to go to your constituents and say, help us craft this, this is what we're looking at doing, some of the options on the table. But what's your input?

That's a different stance, but, again, that message seemed to have been slow in coming.

ALLEN: Yes, but if we think about experience from our own families, our own workplaces, if you have too many cooks in the kitchen...

HARRIS: Yes, you make a great point.

ALLEN: ... as my grandma would say, you can have trouble. And so, I think that's why this fall, Democrats are hoping that the president will be a little tougher and clearer in saying, OK, this is what I want. And he and his staff to go out and knock some heads.

Presidents do have ways of getting what they want. Even the Democrats on Capitol Hill, who are worried about things right now, who think that mistakes have been made, are convinced that, in the end, the president will get a health care bill.

HARRIS: Got you.

ALLEN: He's too far out on this limb. Democrats have too much at stake politically. They're too strong in both houses. The question is, how similar will it be to what he ran on, and how much does it live up to the hopes that the big majority of American people have when they voted for him?

HARRIS: Got you. You're talking the politics of it. You work for "Politico." Let's deal with a political question here.

Dropping political -- or burning political capital here. So, we know that the president's numbers are starting to sag a little bit.

Has the president, as some have suggested, shown that the Republicans will do anything, say anything, that they are essentially obstructionists? The poll numbers, as you know, for congressional Republicans aren't pretty either.

ALLEN: I think that something that nobody expected, including Republicans, was that they would kind of find their voice and get some traction on this issue. The party was so far back on its heels, in such a terrible demographic shape, where they remain. The outlook for national elections remains very poor for Republicans. But they have been able to exact quite a bit of pain on this debate. And so that's why the president, in the fall, will have the opportunity to remind people why they voted for him, to take back and use all the authority of that office and drive the train down a very specific track.

HARRIS: Mike Allen, appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you, sir. Have a great weekend.

ALLEN: Happy weekend, too. HARRIS: White House spokesman Robert Gibbs heads to the White House press room shortly for the daily briefing. That's at 11:15 Eastern Time. Health care questions likely to come up. We will join in as soon as it gets started.

Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska, one of the fiscal conservative Blue Dog Democrats, is a guest on Ed Henry's radio show this morning. Nelson opposed the option of a public health insurance plan. We will talk to our senior White House correspondent a little later in the show, but we believe Senator Nelson is on the line right now with Ed Henry.

Let's listen in.

SEN. BEN NELSON (D), NEBRASKA: I think we have to see what happens when we come back on September 8th and the days that follow.

What I have found in Nebraska is that there's an awful lot of concern, fear, anxiety, frustration. I think America has been traumatized by the debate because of the labeling of certain situations such as the hospice panel, being called the death panel. There's an awful lot of misinformation out there, a lot of misunderstanding, and I'm out here in Nebraska trying to help people understand the difference between fact and fiction coming out of Washington.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Now, on that point, do you think it took the president, the president from your own party, too long to push back on some of those attacks, the death panels, which has now been shown is really not true? You've got even some Republicans saying, look, that's not really what would happen, it's not a death panel.

Did it take this president too long to push back?

NELSON: Well, I don't know that it did. I think, you know, the truth of the matter is, the first person that comes out and labels something has the advantage. And I don't think anybody would have ever expected -- as a matter of fact, if I'm correct on this, and I believe I am, the idea of the panel, of counseling panels on end-of- life issues, came from the other side of the aisle.

HENRY: Johnny Isakson, Republican of Georgia.

Talk turkey a little bit on the public option. The president, this week, started with his health secretary telling John King on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" that the public option was not the essential ingredient in the health plan. Now, that was seen by many as a way to try to reach out to moderate Democrats like you to say, look, the president's got some flexibility on it.

Did it work? Are you more likely to support a health bill if the president may take a public option out in the end?

NELSON: Well, if the public option is not in the front position where it could destabilize the insurance that currently 200 million Americans have, that certainly makes it more palatable. The rest of the details are important as well. So, it's hard to sign on to anything until you've seen everything, but that certainly is something to keep in mind.

And if the president has flexibility there, and that is a possibility...

HARRIS: Our Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry on his radio show right now,. It's "44 With Ed Henry," talking with Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson about health care, health care reform, and the public option.

We will talk to Ed Henry a little later this hour about the rest of his conversation with Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, emotions are still running pretty high at town hall meetings nationwide. Tomorrow, we are live with health care reform uninterrupted, town hall meetings, and all signs in their own words.

Get the questions and the answers on "Town Hall Raw!" That is tomorrow, 2:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

A stunning new charge from inside the Bush White House. The former homeland security chief says cabinet members pressured him to raise the terror alert level ahead of the election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

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HARRIS: On Wall Street, stocks opened modestly higher today. But about an hour ago, the Dow shot up, and now we are seeing -- let's see if the numbers are holding here -- triple-digit gains on the day.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HARRIS: Charges of fear politics in the Bush administration. The nation's first homeland security chief, Tom Ridge, accusing former top Bush officials of pressuring him to raise the terror alert level just before the 2004 presidential election. Ridge makes the claim in his new book, but a former homeland security adviser denies it.

CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has both sides.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Fran Townsend says that politics never came up in the White House meeting on the threat level, but in his book, Tom Ridge never says that it did. He writes that he listened to the arguments John Ashcroft and Donald Rumsfeld made to raise the threat level and then asked himself, is this about security or politics? His takeaway? It was. Townsend reached a very different conclusion, seeing it as an honest debate about the latest threat information and whether it warranted raising the country to orange.

At the end of the day, the only people who really know whether these arguments were politically motivated are the people who made them -- John Ashcroft and Donald Rumsfeld.

It is a bit of a surprise to hear Ridge make these claims. He's a cordial, amiable man who strikes one as the ultimate team player. But a lot has been said about his political ambitions, so perhaps he wanted to create a little distance between himself and the Bush White House, or perhaps he just wanted to speak his mind. His critics are suggesting he just wants to sell some books.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: The health care battle tops our news this hour.

President Obama meeting right now with former Democratic senator Tom Daschle, who is viewed as an expert on the issue.

Votes are being counted across Afghanistan following yesterday's election. Officials there are calling it a success, though at least 26 people were killed in election day violence.

And Hurricane Bill may not be making a run at the U.S., but it is still affecting much of the East Coast. Swimmers and boaters are being warned about rip currents and high waves from northeast Florida to New England.

So, who is the CNN "Hero of the Week"? Find out about a cancer survivor and her life-saving comeback.

That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Time for you to meet another "CNN Heroes" nominee. Faith Coleman was one of the estimated 46 million Americans without health insurance. Then she turned a crisis into a career.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN Heroes."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been completely denied all insurances.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been unemployed and basically have no income.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they told me I had breast cancer. And I did not have no insurance, so I came here.

FAITH COLEMAN, CNN HERO: If they have no insurance and they have no money, what's going to happen to them?

In 2003, I discovered that I had kidney cancer. I am a nurse practitioner, but I had no health insurance. I was able to mortgage my house to pay for the surgery.

If it can happen to me, then it can happen to anybody.

I'm Faith Coleman. I co-founded a free clinic for Americans who don't have health insurance.

Good morning, everybody.

We welcome every patient here who is uninsured and who meets the federal property guideline.

I'm Faith. Nice to meet you.

We're usually seeing 80 patient every other weekend. We have what I call controlled chaos.

It's just busy, busy, busy, go, go, go.

Two X-rays and two CAT scans.

Having kidney cancer was one of the best things that ever happened to me. The one main reason is because I can truly empathize with patients.

Any questions all? Nothing you can think of?

All right. I'm going to see you back in here in two weeks.

OK. Awesome.

I'm so proud of you!

We are treated equally and we all have the same rights. I'm sorry, the right to health care is just right up there with the rest of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Follow "CNN Heroes" any time on Facebook and Twitter, and find out more about Faith Coleman or any of our CNN Heroes on our Web site. Just log on to CNN.com/heroes.

And stay tuned. In about a week's time, we will be announcing the top 10 CNN Heroes of 2009.

Time and money running out on the Cash for Clunkers program. We'll tell you how much longer you have to make a deal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Yes. If you're planning to trade in your gas-guzzler for a new fuel-efficient car, you need to get moving. This is the final weekend for the government's Cash for Clunkers program, and it's been a hit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN LIDETTE, CAR BUYER: We have been trying for a while and had lost our registration, had to apply for a new registration. It finally came through, and as soon as it did, we're right down here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were hoping that it lasted until Labor Day, honestly. But we all had the feeling that the $3 billion was going to run out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Almost 500,000 vehicles have been sold under the program. Many dealers complain they have had to wait longer than expected to get their money, but President Obama says they tripled the number of people processing dealer's applications, so things should start speeding along here soon.

A Cash for Clunkers spin-off is reportedly in the works. Have you heard this? This one aimed at upgrading your household appliances to high-efficiency products.

By the way, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, the daily briefing is under way. We may get to that shortly.

Everything from refrigerators and dishwashers to furnaces and air conditioners. "The Wall Street Journal" reports appliance manufacturers are hoping the federal rebates will revive slumping sales. Let's get to the press briefing.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

QUESTION: ... percent to their highest pace in two years. What do you -- what does the White House think of that assessment that things are getting better? And is it a sign that things are getting better and that housing maybe is healing?

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think -- not wanting to read too much into one day's statistics, I think, if you looked over the course of several months, it does appear that the housing market is bottoming out a bit, which, obviously, was one of the reasons we got into the severity of the economic downturn that we're in now.

Obviously, there's an independence to the Fed that I don't want to get tremendously involved in violating on an August Friday. But I would simply reiterate what we've said before, which is the economy that the president inherited upon taking office was at the brink, as many -- as many said, of sliding into a far deeper recession or possible depression, actions taken to stabilize our financial system to get our economy moving ahead through the recovery plan, to work to make the housing market work more for Americans, to deal and address foreclosures, hold the American economy back from that brink.

Obviously, not unlike the housing statistics we see, you see some good and some not-so-good news, as the government releases its statistics throughout the week. The president is pleased with the fact that it appears we're making some progress in stabilizing that economy, as I've talked about, but won't be satisfied until we get the economy fully back on track and that we're growing the economy in a way that creates jobs for the millions of Americans who continue to look for work and thus far can't find it.

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: Tell us how you see things playing out after the president returns in September. Yesterday, again, Nancy Pelosi said she couldn't pass a bill in the House without the public option. You've got people like Kent Conrad saying you can't pass a bill in the Senate with the public option.

How do you see things unfolding in September? And eventually, does it come down to a conference committee, kind of resolving differences between the Senate and the House? Just how do you kind of project into the fall?

GIBBS: Right. Well, look, obviously, you've got a myriad of opinions on either side. I know last night the six Senate Finance Committee members spent about 90 minutes, I'm told, on the phone working through and making progress on their ideas. The White House has gotten an update on that phone call.

Look...

QUESTION: How did you feel about it?

GIBBS: The reports from the phone call were that they were making progress. I think they believe, as the president strongly believes, that they should continue to work in a -- on a bipartisan basis to try to get agreement on what's outstanding in order to get a bill to their committee and hopefully out of their committee in a timely fashion when Congress returns in September.

So it's hard to know exactly what's going to happen then. We hope that the Senate Finance Committee will continue to work to make progress on that side, and we'll see what happens in the House. In terms of -- it's hard for me to peer too far into the future in terms of conference committees and all that stuff.

QUESTION: How about this -- this thing that was floated out there, in splitting -- splitting the bill and having reconciliation, because that's the way 51 votes you can get some things?

GIBBS: Yes, you know, I -- I've certainly read the reports on that. I haven't -- I haven't gotten a lot from in here about that. Our focus is -- as we've talked about in this room over the past several days, our focus is on working with Republicans and Democrats to get agreement on something that the president can sign.

Yes, ma'am?

QUESTION: As the president leaves for vacation, it's been a long month of August in the health care debate.

GIBBS: Been a long week.

QUESTION: It's been a long -- it's a long day already for me. What has the president learned this month, this make-it-or-break-it month, as he heads into vacation in terms of the health care debate?

GIBBS: Well, I hesitate to call August a make-it-or -- no offense to -- I know you guys...

(CROSSTALK)

GIBBS: I know you guys have spent a lot of money on branding it a make-it-or-break-it month.

QUESTION: It's been an important month in the debate.

GIBBS: No, no. Right, but my -- here's my hunch. My hunch is that -- I don't know which cable network will make September an even more important month than August, and then if this thing gets to October, I can only imagine that that will soon be a more important month.

My sense of that is that, not to quote the president yesterday at the DNC, but, you know, I think that -- I think that much is always made of -- of where things are at a certain point in the process. The president's viewpoint is, as he said in here, not to worry too much about the 24-hour news cycle and focus more on the overall process and the overall policy.

So, you know, I don't know that I would read a tremendous amount into any specific time period like August. I mean, I think if you look at -- if you look at the NBC poll, there's been, obviously, a lot of heat and light around town hall meetings, but the NBC poll showed that, I think, roughly an equal number of people were more favorable about health care based on town halls as they were less favorable, and three-fifths of the country, it didn't make any difference.

So, I do think the president has used August and the town hall meetings that we've had and the appearances, including the one we had yesterday, and we'll do again in September to continue to tell people about why health care reform is important, why we can't afford to do nothing, the stakes that are involved, and to try to push back on the mistruths and misrepresentations that we all know are still out there about health care reform.

QUESTION: I know you love it when we do this. So you're not saying that the president hasn't learned anything over some predetermined -- some determined amount of time...

GIBBS: No, I -- you know...

QUESTION: ... but it means, as you see it, as he needs to be now more of a vocal -- more of a face out there in order to keep the message out there of what reform he wants to see? GIBBS: You know, again, you know, I'm balancing that against all that I read about how the president is overexposed. So, you know, look, I think the president is going to continue to be out front in September and October in trying to get something done.

I think he understands, and I think we've made progress. Again, if you look at what the NBC poll has, I mean, I think there's -- obviously, the president has made some discernible progress on the mistruth about government making end-of-life health care decisions for seniors, which obviously isn't going to happen. It's not in the bill.

And I think him being out there pushing forward on that rumor is why the American people and seniors, based on that polling, don't believe that that exists in the piece of legislation that's being considered now.

QUESTION: So just a side note before I get to my question, the polling numbers -- the polling stuff that you cited makes it look much better than it actually is. The polling shows a significant drop in support for the health care plan. It shows a right track/wrong track...

GIBBS: The NBC polls did not show that.

QUESTION: ... that has gotten much worse.

GIBBS: (INAUDIBLE)

QUESTION: It's a mixed bag. No, I would say it's a mixed bag.

QUESTION: All right. Well, anyway...

GIBBS: I'll give you 30 seconds to respond.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) despite official protests from this government on every level, the Scots released the Lockerbie bomber. The president yesterday said he hoped that they would place him under -- in Libya, under house arrest. Instead, he gets a hero's welcome. People are outraged.

GIBBS: Rightly so. I think the images that we saw in Libya yesterday were outrageous and disgusting. We continue to express our condolences to the families that lost a loved one as a result of this terrorist murder.

We communicated with the Libyan government, and we continue to watch what they do in the days going forward about this individual and -- and understand that the video that you saw yesterday is tremendously offensive to the survivors that, as I said, lost a loved one in 1988.

QUESTION: Well, they're, like, blowing off the president. I mean, the guy who shook the president's hand...

HARRIS: Let's take a moment now and -- first of all, you've been listening to White House press secretary, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs taking a number of questions on health care reform, the debate over the course of this last month.

Let's talk about that issue and maybe a couple of others with our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry. He is on his radio show right now, "44 with Ed Henry." And Ed, we'd listened a little earlier, your interview with Democratic Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska. But let me follow up with the question that our Kate Bolduan asked of Robert Gibbs. What do you think the president has learned in this month, August, about the health care reform debate in this country?

HENRY: You know, I think when you talk to senior White House aides, they always knew this would be a big battle. But I think one of the things he may have learned and I -- from talking to top White House aides, they've learned, it was maybe even tougher than they anticipated.

Because reforming one-sixth of the economy, something that has been tried for decades and failed, you know, many presidents have tried this. And I think they've also learned a little bit in the debates ahead, not just on health care and trying to rescue this, but in the years ahead in this president's term here, and we'll see whether he runs for re-election, whether he's re-elected and what happens, whether it's eight years or four years.

But it's about -- Senator Nelson was talking about getting ahead and pushing back when people start talking about the death panels and the like. And this White House didn't move as quickly as they did maybe back in the campaign last year. They were very swift back then. And one thing Senator Nelson told me -- now, he's a key moderate in this debate from Nebraska. It was a swing vote here. And he said he's found from his constituents, they have been, quote, "traumatized" by this debate, traumatized.

HARRIS: What does that mean?

HENRY: Well, and I asked him what does that mean.

HARRIS: Yes.

HENRY: He said, well, they hear about death panels, and they think, you know, grandma and this and that. And the president has talked about that in recent days, but it took him a while to push back. And this is a debate where the president started out saying, I want to help you, I want to improve this system and bring more health care to those who are uninsured.

And instead you have a Democratic senator saying they've been traumatized by it. And in fact, right now, we're joined on our program -- we spoke to a Democratic senator earlier, Tony, we now have Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming, who also happens to be a medical doctor.

HARRIS: Terrific.

HENRY: We appreciate you joining us on CNN radio and CNN television. Senator Barrasso, where do you think we are in this debate, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Barrasso, you're on the line live with CNN.

HENRY: Senator, welcome. Ed Henry here on CNN with Tony Harris. And where do you think we are on this debate right now?

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Well, I'm in the middle of Wyoming, in Cheyenne, Wyoming, visiting with people. I'm going to visit with about 300 emergency medical technicians, paramedics, firefighters in the next hour and a half, just to talk about the issues of health care.

And people in Wyoming have great concerns. I've been having meetings around the state, and when I talk to people, you know, and you ask them the question, do you think you're going to end up paying more or less under the president's plan, you know, by two to one, they think they're going to pay more. And then you say, you think your health care's going to be better or worse under the president's plan? And by two to one, they're telling me they think it's going to be worse, and they're not sure they're getting the value that they deserve. And that's what the people of Wyoming want.

HENRY: Now, Senator Barrasso, a little earlier, we spoke to Senator Ben Nelson, a moderate Democrat you know well from Nebraska. And he floated an idea that basically, look, maybe the public option should be a secondary option.

He said in the first option should be passing a bill that deals with pre-existing conditions, making sure insurance companies can't, you know, pull that coverage out when you have a pre-existing condition, and make the public option sort of a fall back position that could be triggered if the insurance companies do not make the reforms that Democrats and some Republicans have been pushing for.

Could you live with a bill, as a Republican, that has a public option in it but not as the first one, but as a fallback? Could that be a possible compromise here?

BARRASSO: I probably am going to need to see the details as it's laid out. But I have a great deal of respect for Senator Nelson. We work hand in hand on a number of different proposals. And right now, I look at this large bill, 1,018 pages.

To me, it's very complicated. When one of the members of the House says, well, why read it because it takes two days to read it and two lawyers to explain it to you, that's too complicated for the American people and for the members of Congress.

We shouldn't vote for that sort of thing. If you can't understand it, you shouldn't vote for it. So, I like the idea of breaking it into pieces, taking a look at trying to figure out what's what...

HARRIS: Very, very interesting to hear that from Senator John Barraso of Wyoming that it is essentially too complicated a bill right now for Americans to read and understand.

Well, guess what we have? We have Adriana Maxwell with us.

Adriana, how are you doing?

ADRIANA MAXELL, REGULAR CONTRIBUTOR TO IREPORT.COM: All right. How are you doing, sir?

HARRIS: Are you sitting up straight in the chair?

MAXWELL: I am sitting up straight.

HARRIS: That's better.

MAXWELL: You're worse than my mother -- posture, posture.

HARRIS: We're going to take a break. You read not only the House bill out of Health and Energy, right?

MAXWELL: I read the health and exchange, the one by the Dems.

HARRIS: Yes, yes.

MAXWELL: Then I read the one by the Republicans. I also read HR 676, which was done by Representative Kucinich (ph) about a total public plan. I mean...

HARRIS: Well, let's do this. Let's take a quick break. Let's come back, and let's talk about it, and I'll ask you the question, is it too complicated for folks to get through.

You had an initial answer to that question when you were here two weeks ago, and you've got a slightly different view of it now. Let's take a break. We're back with Adrianna in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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HARRIS: Health care legislation is probably not on your summer reading list, but it is for one of our iReporters. Adriana Maxwell -- remember she was here a couple weeks ago -- she has spent part of her summer plowing through more than 1,000 pages in a House version of the bill. In fact, she's finished. She's has an update. One, two, three -- three, and if you think about it slightly differently, four bills on the House side...

MAXWELL: Four bills on the House side, correct.

HARRIS: ... on the House side, and one out of Health on the Senate side.

MAXWELL: Senate side, correct.

HARRIS: OK, which one did you read?

MAXWELL: I read them all.

HARRIS: You did not read them all.

MAXWELL: I did. I read them all. Absolutely.

HARRIS: Really?

MAXWELL: No (INAUDIBLE) because (INAUDIBLE) for me.

HARRIS: You read them all?

MAXWELL: Yes, I did. He actually even printed them for me. I should have brought in the stacks of paper, but between dropping off my son and getting here, it was like, stacks of paper just can't come.

HARRIS: All right, so, the last time you were here, you said to me that it was a little tricky to get through it because it's all in legislative-ese, right?

MAXWELL: Yes.

HARRIS: Did it start to come together for you at some point and start making some sense, some English for everyone to understand?

MAXWELL: In English. It does, because after a while you get used to the rhythm and the rhyme of what they mean, and it actually starts to make sense to you. I mean, at one point, when I was reading through especially like HR 676, and they were talking about...

HARRIS: Now, that's -- which committee is that?

MAXWELL: That was Representative Kucinich from...

HARRIS: Kucinich.

MAXWELL: Kucinich -- I'm sorry -- from Ohio.

HARRIS: Right, right, right. OK, all right.

MAXWELL: Yes? Ohio.

HARRIS: All right, so here's the thing. Let's go through a couple of pieces here. Four pieces of legislation that you read.

Any language in any of the bills using the terminology "death panels"?

MAXWELL: None. Absolutely not. Nothing about death panels whatsoever.

HARRIS: But there must be something that could be construed, or we wouldn't be hearing this over and over again.

MAXWELL: Because what happens, like, for any legal purpose or insurance, it has to be scheduled. Because if it's not scheduled, the insurance company will not pay for it. So, what it is, is that after you hit a certain stage of your game, everybody hits their stage eventually... HARRIS: Right.

MAXWELL: ... it says you have the right to make an appointment with your doctor to discuss a directive.

HARRIS: Directives, yes.

MAXWELL: Directives. Everybody should have one once you hit the age of 18 and over, so that way -- but in this case, it's specifically geared so that way your insurance, Medicare, will pay for it.

HARRIS: OK. So, no language that uses...

MAXWELL: None. Absolutely not.

HARRIS: How does the House bill -- you read everything.

MAXWELL: Yes.

HARRIS: Is there anything in any of the bills that discusses covering people who are in the country illegally?

MAXWELL: There is phrasing in this that it absolutely does not cover.

HARRIS: Just the opposite.

MAXWELL: Opposite. Absolutely not. I mean, it was actually...

HARRIS: And you read each line.

MAXWELL: Each line of each bill several times, as a matter of fact.

HARRIS: Strongest -- the strongest features of the language that you read? What is -- give me a general impression of what's taking shape here.

MAXWELL: Well, the impression that I got from the House bill...

HARRIS: Yes.

MAXWELL: ... was that they're trying to do a humongous amount of reform.

HARRIS: Right.

MAXWELL: And that's pretty much what it is. It's like, we want to reform health insurance.

HARRIS: Right.

MAXWELL: We want to reform the way Medicare works. We want to reform the way Medicaid works and cover more people.

HARRIS: Does it seem as though it's too much to do in one big ultimately reconciled piece of legislation?

MAXWELL: When you throw everybody in? Yes.

HARRIS: Yes.

MAXWELL: When you start having Republicans and Democrats and even within the Democratic Party, you have your Blue Dogs, your conserves and your left, way left, way right...

HARRIS: Right.

MAXWELL: ... yes, it becomes too much. And I can understand the Obama administration wanting to just go, let's just get it in and get it done...

HARRIS: Yes.

MAXWELL: ... but at the same time, it's like, OK, let's deal with one aspect first, health care insurance.

HARRIS: Are you happy you took on the assignment? Would you recommend it for others who are watching us?

MAXWELL: I would. I definitely would.

HARRIS: Awesome.

MAXWELL: Yes, definitely.

HARRIS: Adriana, I'm so glad you said that.

MAXWELL: Thank you.

HARRIS: You have been terrific. Let's figure out some other things for you to do.

MAXWELL: I would love to come back. I really would.

HARRIS: You superstar iReporter.

MAXWELL: Thank you.

HARRIS: Thank you, lady.

MAXWELL: I appreciate it.

HARRIS: Still in the NEWSROOM, you know, dozens of young people have died in a rash of violence on the streets of Chicago. In our "What Matters" segment, we will hear from families touched by the violence and from parents who've lost children.

Also ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, the government's Cash for Clunkers program is about to come to a close. How did it go? We will hear from an auto analyst and a car dealer on the end of the road for the program. That's next hour in the CNN NEWSROOM. We're back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)