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Hurricane Bill; Prison Riot; Health Care Plan Resistance; Virginia Town Halls; Ruthless Debt Collectors
Aired August 22, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: We begin with Hurricane Bill, pounding surf, fierce winds. Here's what it looks like this morning as Hurricane Bill swept past Bermuda. IReporter, Andy Kenny, originally from St. Louis sent this video on his first encounter with a hurricane. It's a pretty good one, a lot of surf, there.
Bill is churning north towards Massachusetts. Folks along the East Coast and on Martha's Vineyard on alert for more dangerous surf and rip currents. CNN's Susan Candiotti is at shore in Chatham, Massachusetts.
You say it for me, Candy. I can't say those two together. Chatham, Massachusetts. How bad is it or is it a day where everybody Boston runs to the beach?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you, it is very crowded here along the beaches and you know what else is interesting, the streets are very crowded. Why? Because the beaches have been off limits since yesterday afternoon. And, again, that warning issued again, an ordered issued by the governor of Massachusetts, no one is aloud at the beaches because of tropical storm force winds, but more importantly because of dangerous rip tides. That's key here.
I'm going to give you a quick view, beautiful day, broken clouds. Look at that, you got people filling the stands, taking advantage of the last of the holiday season, summer season before Labor Day coming up. And here, of course, the warning flag, no swimming allowed. See the red flag, there.
And here joining us is Stu Smith (ph), he's the harbor master to talk about dangerous these currents are.
STU SMITH, HARBOR PATROL: Yeah, these -- we have pretty strong currents here under normal conditions, so when you get a tropical depression coming up, it picks up the surf and it gets dangerous rip currents.
CANDIOTTI: And not only that, what's unusual about this storm is that it is so far offshore, not so much worried about the rain here and the wind, in fact, talking about 20 mile-per-hour, sustained winds, and the storm force gusts maybe of maybe 40 miles-an-hour approaching that. So, it's not so much the wind you're worried about.
SMITH: Right. The wind is going to be probably manageable, it's the surf that kicks up behind us and along our east facing beaches, that's why the town is closed to just swimming because of dangerous rip currents.
CANDIOTTI: Are people paying attention to those warnings?
SMITH: So far they are. We have a lot of people out here reminding them about them, the harbor patrol is out, as well, sending notices out and it's on our local television, as well.
CANDIOTTI: And I know as much as you warn people, you're always get the suffering out, kite boarders, and this is Barry Basset (ph).
Barry, you've been doing this for years, surfing, kite boarding, the whole bit. Will you be taking a chance later tonight when the winds are really kicking up?
BARRY BASSET, SURFER: Yeah, for sure. My friends and I will be out, and we've done this a lot here, so we're pretty knowledgeable about the currents and the waves and what we should and shouldn't be doing.
CANDIOTTI: Biggest concern would be newcomers, the weekend warriors, people not used to it?
BASSET: Exactly. You know, we try to advise them and maybe watch over them if they're going where they shouldn't be going.
CANDIOTTI: Why do you go out on a day like this?
BASSET: It's exciting. It's exciting. It's fun, it's exercise. You're outside. Doesn't get better than this.
CANDIOTTI: That's for sure. Got to sneak in one more interview, and that's with some folks who have come here, of course, on vacation. And uh-oh, you're here on a day where you can't dip into the water. What do you think about that, mom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's unfortunate because it's a beautiful, beautiful day, but I guess for the safety of the kids, that's what we have to do.
CANDIOTTI: A disappointment, is it, not to be able to go in the water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Because I really like the water and I like to swim and jump over the waves, and -- I just want to, but I can't.
CANDIOTTI: Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. Huh? We'll have to see what happens.
The most important thing here, of course, is safety, Drew, and that's what everyone is concerned about, here. No one is going into the water today, they're not supposed to. Surfers might, of course, you won't be surprised about that, but the worst of it should hit in the overnight hours, so that's good news, because no one's going to be swimming or surfing in the dark. Back to you.
GRIFFIN: Susan, thanks a lot.
Let's turn to Reynolds.
Reynolds, I can't believe they can keep people out of the water. I'm with the surfer guy. Hey, you're waiting all year for this on the wrong coast. Finally a wave comes. Jump in.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I mean, it is tempting. I mean, this is a great opportunity for people to go out in, if you happen to be a surfer, you want to go out there and do some long boarding, I mean, this would be, you would think, a good time. But still, if you're not a strong swimmer, it's the thing you want to avoid it.
Let's give you a little bit of perspective on this storm. Here is, obviously, the center of the storm, right about here. You see the eye wall beginning to try to reform, the storm now leaving Bermuda in its wake.
We had Susan Candiotti right up here in Chatham, in that area, and the storm is expected to veer its way to the northeast. As it does so, it's still going to brush parts of the coast. Now, that doesn't mean we're going to have a direct impact, at least a direct hit on parts of the U.S. coast, but still, we're going to be dealing with all kinds of stuff in terms of those rip currents and of course, increased winds, possibly some scattered showers a longed coast, too.
The latest path we have from the National Hurricane Center shows is the storm doing just that -- moving to the north by 8:00 p.m. tonight, winds at 100 miles-per-hour. And then as we fast forward into Sunday, winds weakening just a little bit, 85 miles-per-hour. It's going to be interacting with cooler water, at the same time, some upper level winds, some shear will start ripping the storm apart and then the farther north it goes, expecting to veer off, just moving right into the Canadian Maritimes.
Right now we actually have a tropical storm warnings that are in effect for parts of Nova Scotia and over towards Halifax and it eventually moving near Newfoundland as we get into 8:00 p.m. Sunday and into early Monday possibly making a landfall as a weak hurricane or tropical storm as you get into the early half of the week.
One thing to keep in mind, though, it is going to be an issue right along the coast. This live image that we have for you out of North Carolina, near Nags Head, complements of Mark (INAUDIBLE), shows that people are out there certainly enjoying themselves.
We can take a look at this. You got the water that's coming right up, very close to some of these pilings we have here and also very close to these condominiums. That is certainly something that you're going to be dealing with. We're talking dangerous surf at points of the outer banks going anywhere from say 15 to 20 feet above normal. So, when you have the high tide coinciding with that additional water pushing towards the coast, you're going to have some issues with rip currents. Now, coming up we're going to give you an idea of what exactly a rip current is, how to avoid them and where to be on the lookout for them, too. That's a bunch of information that we're going to share coming up.
Drew, let's send it back to you.
GRIFFIN: Reynolds, thanks a lot.
Well, other news, rocks flew, windows shattered and buildings destroyed during a five hour prison riot that ended early today. It happened at the North Point Training Center, a medium security lockup, south of Lexington, Kentucky. Officials say prisoners set fire to buildings before riot police resorted to tear gas to subdue them. This sounds it's straight out of a movie. Guards are now back in control and are moving some of those inmates to nearby facilities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT DAVID JUDE, KENTUCKY STATE POLICE: Right now, we're happy to report to you that the facility is secure, the inmates are accounted for. We had minimal injuries, which are still being assessed to the inmates and as far as we know right now, minimal, if any, injuries at all to any staff or department of corrections personnel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Well, just before going on vacation, President Obama hitting back at health care reform critics. He says people who talk about death panels and mandatory public coverage are guilty of outright distortions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: It's never been easy moving this nation forward. There are always those who oppose it and those who use fear to block change. But, what has always distinguished America is that when all the arguments have been heard and all the concerns have been voiced, and the time comes to do what must be done, we rise above our differences, grasp each other's hands and march forward as one nation and one people, some of us Democrats, some of us Republicans, all of us American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: CNN's Elaine Quijano is at the -- where are you Elaine? I can't even see you?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I'm in the bureau in Washington.
Are you in the bureau? OK, that's the Capitol behind you. You're usually at the White House. We're going to talk about what the president had to say today about holding hands and marching forward. Really, he's having trouble getting the Democrats to hold each other's hands and march forward on this issue? QUIJANO: Yeah, you know, and at the same time, obviously, he's trying to go and fight back against some of these claims that have been made about the proposals, against what his administration says are myths about health care reform.
In his weekly address the president also ran through some of them. For instance, saying illegal immigrants would not be covered under a health care bill. Also, taxpayer dollars would not go to fund abortions and he addressed a fear that has been echoed at some of those heated town hall meetings across the country saying his administration, Drew, is not planning a government takeover of the health care system -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Yeah, but at the same time, we have speaker Pelosi saying she's not going forward without a public option, which many people believe is a government plan?
QUIJANO: Well, that's right, and in fact, what the president has been trying to do is to push back against the notion that it's not going to be some sort of government takeover. We heard this in the weekly address. He's also trying to, you know, Drew, fight back against some of the Republicans who are also, of course, resisting the president's plans. In fact, in their weekly address, Republicans said the president was not being straightforward about his proposal. GOP Congressman Tom Price of Georgia said the president is playing "fast and loose with the facts." take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP TOM PRICE (R), GEORGIA: His opposition for the Democrat's plan is mounting. The president has said, he'd like to stamp out some of the disinformation floating around out there. The problem is the president himself plays fast and loose with the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, Congressman Price, a physician himself, said based on his experience trying to navigate federal health care programs, he believes Washington is incapable of processing what he called the "personal and unique circumstances" that patients and doctors face every day.
But Drew, you're absolutely right, this is a president who is facing not only resistance from reluctant Republicans, but again, having some difficulty even getting some of the skeptical Democrats onboard and united -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Very interesting, Elaine. Good reporting all week, by the way, on this.
QUIJANO: Thanks.
GRIFFIN: Hey, let's move ahead. Health care reform proposals, they continue to cause confusion and stirring debate. What are your health care questions? What are your concerns? Send your questions on FaceBook. You know, I'm sitting in for Fredricka, so let's send it to Fredricka Whitfield CNN or our blog at CNN.com/newsroom. And then tune in today at 4:00 Eastern where our panel of guests will separate fact from fiction in this muddled health care debate. So, we have several hours for you to send in your questions on that.
I'm sitting in for Fred Fredricka. And dune in today at 4:00 eastern, where our panel of guests will separate fact from fiction in this muddled health care debate. We have several hours to send in your questions on that.
August has been -- hasn't been much of a recess for many lawmakers. A Virginia congressman hits the road for another health care town hall. We're going to be there with the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: There is a congressman, newly elected congressman in Virginia, a Democrat. He won by less than 1,000 votes. He's in a conservative district. I think the guy that he beat is running against him in next year's election, so there is a lot at stake for Congressman Tom Perriello, as he tours the state with his "Tom in Your Town" town hall meetings on health care reform and he has been getting an earful on these town hall meetings. He has one today and our Kate Bolduan is live in Alberta, Virginia where the next one's going to take place.
And, Kate, what has he been hearing?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Drew. Well, they're expecting about up to 100 people at this town hall. We're in Alberta, Virginia, as you mentioned, at a community college here, which is about 2.5 hours away from Washington. We're waiting to see Congressman Tom Perriello, he'll be coming, he's on his way.
This will be his 14th of, now we hear, 21 total town halls that he'll hold during this recess. Quite a list, quite a many town halls to be holding. He says he really want to hear from his constituents because right now he remains a no-vote, although he says he wants to become a yes-vote for whatever final legislation does take shape.
And as you mentioned, he is a freshman Democrat. This is a conservative district. He won the district by just 0.2 percent of one percentage point. Very close election and he's likely a target, a Republican target in the 2010 election. He says throughout the town halls they have been tense. He has definitely heard passion from the crowds here and we'll see what the people have to say just in about an hour -- Drew.
GRIFFIN: Yeah, he's also got the undertone of his congressional leadership probably pushing him from the left. What are the constituents actually saying? Are they just as split as the vote was when he won?
BOLDUAN: He says that he is definitely hearing from both sides, definitely strong voices on both sides in this district. He likes to kind of bill himself as an independent, trying to steer from both sides of his district before he makes a decision. He is a no-vote, but we'll see how he votes when he does get back to Washington.
Perriello has described the mood of this town hall. I just talked a few minutes ago. He describes it as a strong simmer, but not yet a boil, which I thought was quite interesting. And the main issue he says he's hearing from constituents on both sides it the question of costs. Either they want to know how much is health care reform going to cost me or how will health care reform help to bring down my insurance premium in the end?
So, he definitely has a challenge ahead of him. He says he's here to listen and also make sure his constituents know they are going to be heard. It's a tough position politically, Drew, you just alluded to it. While he's a freshman Democrat, likely a Republican target in the election, he needs to appeal to conservatives in the district, many are strongly opposed to the government-run, this public option that we've talk about. At the same time, he doesn't want to anger the more liberal progressive group of voters who helped get him get elected, who, many of which, want a public option to be required as any part of final legislation.
GRIFFIN: Yeah, whether he's going to the simmer or a boil, he's seems to be in a hot seat, right now.
BOLDUAN: I like that.
GRIFFIN: Kate, thanks a lot.
Well, emotions are running high at town meetings, like the one Kate's about to cover. Today we are live with these health care reform debates, uninterrupted town hall meetings. You can hear from people on all sides of the debate, in their own words, and get questions and answer on TOWN HALL RAW, today, at 2:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
Well, threats and scare tactics, one state says debt collectors are going too far and authorities make a move to shut them down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: Let's keep you on top of the news at this hour. If you're headed for a beach along the eastern shore beware of dangerous surf and rip currents. Hurricane Bill churning north along the Atlantic coast after swiping by Bermuda. Minor damage reported there. Bill is not expected to hit the U.S. mainland. It's a lot calmer today.
The central Kentucky prison after inmates set fire to it overnight. Authorities say it took riot police two hours to get control of the North Point Training Center, that's near Lexington, Kentucky. Eight inmates and eight staffers were hurt.
Iraq's foreign minister predicts bigger and more powerful attacks in Baghdad's future. The Iraqi government, listen to this, investigating whether security forces collaborated in Wednesday's blast that killed 101 people. The foreign minister says anyone who helped the bombers must be held responsible. Another check of our top stories is just 20 minutes away.
A threatening phone call, impersonating the police. The New York attorney general says a group of debt collectors used those tactics and worse. Now he's trying to shut them down. CNN's Mary Snow has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michelle Minton says she'll never forget the calls she got the same day her daughter was diagnosed with autism. A man posing as a lawyer claim she owed $4,400 and said her arrest was imminent if she didn't pay up.
MICHELLE MINTON, DEBT COLLECTION VICTIM: He was getting very insistent and started -- you know, I don't remember all the words, but started talking about your kids will see you arrested, if there's nobody's there, if your husband can't make it home, child protective services will have to take your kids.
SNOW: Minton wasn't actually in debt, but feeling the pressure, she relented, gave the number of her bank account number and lost $900.
Dorothy Gilbert teared up listening to the voicemail left at her home over a $187 bill she'd already paid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are totally ghetto. Second of all, ma'am, learn English, get an education since you're just sitting on your fat derriere all day long making money off the free working population in the country, you might want to try to get educated enough to at least be able to say "payment plan" instead of "payment pan." You uneducated reject.
SNOW: New York attorney general, Andrew Cuomo, says that call and others in which law enforcement is impersonated and some even threatening sexual assault, are tied to operators of 13 companies he's now trying to shut down in New York.
ANDREW CUOMO, NEW YORK ATTY GEN: The tactics, they are so disturbing, so threatening, that they tend to be affective. That's why they do it.
SNOW: Private attorney Joe Mauro represents debt collection abuse victims. He says there's been an increase in cases tying it to the economic downturn.
JOSEPH MAURO, ATTORNEY: There is no money to be pulled out of consumers these days, and as that happens, debt collectors become more desperate.
SNOW: But the Trade Group for Debt Collectors says don't paint them all with the same brush. It estimates rogue collectors make up about 10 percent of the industry.
ROZANNE ANDERSEN, ACA INTERNATIONAL: The harassing phone calls and the aggressive behavior is absolutely unacceptable. SNOW: Cuomo filled a lawsuit against the Benning-Smith Group, an umbrella group for 13 companies, we called several and they were either disconnected or out of service. Three individuals in Buffalo, New York, were also named. We reached a lawyer for one who said he'll fight the charges.
Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: We're going to bring in our legal guys, here. Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor. Richard Herman a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor.
Avery, Cuomo is going after the companies here. What do they have to prove, that the companies train these people to do this kind of garage?
AVERY FREIDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTY: Well Drew, I got to tell you something, I don't know where they dig up these debt collectors. I mean, these are subterranean sub-humans that do this sort of thing. and you know what, they're supposed to be trained. Actually, that's a very good point. But, New York Attorney General Andy Cuomo is doing the right thing.
We're going to see more and more of these cases because there is a connection between the downturn in the economy, and these aggressive tactics. And you know what? The companies and the individuals doing it are in a world of trouble.
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY: Drew, there are federal and state laws to protect consumers against this outrageous, insane behavior.
GRIFFIN: Yeah.
HERMAN: These morons that are working under the guise of this company in particular, this Benning-Smith company, are going to wreak havoc, they're going to bankrupt the company because of this now. There's going to be massive litigation against them and it's going to send a strong message to debt collectors, you cannot conduct yourself in this manner.
GRIFFIN: Well, that's my question. I mean, the company are going to be sued, most likely these companies will evaporate and probably have no assets to get to. What I'm asking you is, are the heads of these companies, who ever put these people, these debt collectors, in the seat with the phone, are they going to face criminal charges?
FRIEDMAN: Oh I think ownership of the company, as well as the individuals. Sometimes, Drew, you undertake public interest litigation to get the bad guys knowing there's not going to be money. But unless you put a stop to the, both from a civil perspective and from criminal perspective, some of the heads of these company are going to jail. It's the only way you'll stop guys like this. HERMAN: Sadly, I don't think the owners are going to get touched on this. They're going to say they had no knowledge this was going on. They didn't oversee it and therefore, they're going to be absolved of it.
GRIFFIN: And Richard, move on to another umbrella company that does the same thing in another state, right? I mean, really?
HERMAN: Absolutely.
GRIFFIN: Hey, well, you know what, before we leave if you're getting these phone calls, something was interesting. Can you tape these calls? Can you tape them and use them as evidence? Or do you face any -- you yourself and face prosecution for taping these calls?
HERMAN: Drew, each state is different. You have to find out the laws of your state. In New York, you can take them surreptiously without their consent. Other states require the consent of a person.
FRIEDMAN: Yeah, Richard nailed it. You've got to find out the law the state. If you can tape them, your best evidence.
GRIFFIN: All right. Hey, Avery, talk about representing something, here. Let's turn to Oprah and Dr. Oz, the phenomenon of selling a product with these two people's endorsement when they didn't endorse them. How can Oprah protect her image here?
FRIEDMAN: Well, by doing exactly what she's doing. Actually, what her lawyers did in advance, Drew, was the smart thing. They wrote letters to these companies. 500 of them, if not more, saying, cease and desist, by associating the product with Oprah and Dr. Oz. They failed to do it. So, what we saw this week was the launching of the first lawsuit. I think it has 267 pages. And guess what? In addition, the Illinois Attorney general is jumping alongside. So, for those companies that are trying to hook up with Oprah improperly, they're in a big bowl of trouble.
GRIFFIN: Richard, surprised me, you know, Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general did jump onboard, but Oprah doesn't need Madigan, she doesn't need an Andrew Cuomo. She's probably got a better legal staff than both of them together.
HERMAN: Hey Drew, let me tell you, the rich get richer that's all I can say. She's going to nail these people, she's going to get a massive civil award for it. You know, Oprah wants her name in lights when she wants her name in lights and she's not going to put up with this type of behavior. It was all around this Acai Berry magical weight loss product. The company in Florida is being investigated by the economic crimes division. Big, big trouble. Oprah's too big for this.
FRIEDMAN: She's the university unto herself. She really is.
GRIFFIN: Hey guys, let's talk about the final subject in this segment, which is weird. This radio host, supposedly a right wing radio host. FRIEDMAN: I love this case.
GRIFFIN: He threatens federal judges and everybody wants him charged, and, you know, convicted of threatening federal judges and then he says, hey, guys, I'm just doing what the FBI told me to do. What? Come on, Avery. What?
FRIEDMAN: Let me tell you something, this is a bad news guy who actually not only suggested that you kill federal judges, but then put their picture up there. I want to see him make this defense. Not only is the behavior outrageous, but the defense being advantaged by his criminal defense team is even more outrageous. I think this guy is going down.
GRIFFIN: Well, wait. Richard, wait a minute. He says he got paid $10,000. The FBI says he can't comment.
HERMAN: That's how the FBI comments, by saying they can't comment.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
HERMAN: And I've seen this defense before, Drew, but here, even if he was schooled by the FBI, even if he did perform for them, it was during the period 2002 through 2007. The type of behavior that's being challenged here occurred after 2007, while he was not under the employ, supposedly of the FBI and to say to the public on a right wing radio station, or a blog, to say, that I think these judges should be killed, and that these congressmen don't follow the Constitution they should -- you know, follow the Constitution or die, you know, that goes beyond the constitutional protections under the first amendment.
FRIEDMAN: Exactly right.
GRIFFIN: Well, I'll tell you what, guys, I never heard of that guy until this whole thing came up, so I don't know where he's broadcasting or blogging or what, but I'm sure he's around.
FRIEDMAN: Believe men, he'll be going soon, Drew.
GRIFFIN: All right, hey are you coming back? You guys are coming back.
FRIEDMAN: Yeah, we'll be back in a little bit.
GRIFFIN: All right. Well then, we'll hold it right there. Thank you.
FRIEDMAN: See ya.
GRIFFIN: Well, purple inked fingers were supposed to fight election fraught in Afghanistan. Instead, Taliban extremists are using them to fight the advance of Democracy. This is a sick story. We're going to explain that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GRIFFIN: Up and down the coast, the Atlantic coast, people are either running to the beach or running away from the beach, depending on -- really, your level of strength in the water because of these rip currents.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's a big contrast, isn't it? I mean, if you happen to be a weak swimmer, it's not the place you want to be right now. If you're s surfer, I mean, it's made to order. It's exactly what you're hoping for.
Hey, we're talking about rip currents, folks. And one of the big issues that we have, a lot of times we have these major hurricanes, and big storms offshore, they can cause quite a ruckus, cause a lot of issues on the beach and the biggest -- of course, not erosion but rather rip currents.
And here is the latest to give you a little bit of an eye-opener on that weather phenomenon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF: You know, here in Florida's east coast, conditions couldn't be better. I mean, you got partly cloudy skies, people out here enjoying themselves. You'd never know that roughly 1,000 miles away, we've got a major hurricane that's brewing. And although we don't have the wind and of course, the heavy rainfall here, there's still a threat from that storm. We're talking about rip currents.
So, the question is what is a rip current? Well, to get an answer, we're going to go over to this guy. This is Gio Serrano. And Gio, what is it? What's a rip current?
LT. GIO SERRANO, FT. LAUDERDALE OCEAN RESCUE: Rip current's a channel of water. It usually happens when we have easterly winds, 10 miles plus sustained. We have a lot of water accumulates against the shoreline and the channel of water pulls all that water back out to sea.
WOLf (voice-over): When an increased volume of water is pushed towards the shoreline by a tropical system or nor'easter, it retreats rapidly back into the surf, creating channels. An unsuspecting swimmer caught in this conveyor belt of swift water is at the mercy of the current. The key for survival is to remain calm.
(on camera): But the key is don't panic?
SERRANO: Do not panic. Never panic and do not swim against a rip. You're not going to make it.
WOLF: Sounds easier said than done. We're going to try it out for ourselves.
(voice-over): Five minutes later and 50 yards offshore, there is a definite ebb and flow of the ocean's rhythm, but now a strong outflow current. Lifeguard Larry Cox is with me and he says that if carried away from the beach, the best course of action is to swim parallel to the shoreline and out, not against, the rip current. When free from the current's grip, slowly swim to shore.
Larry also says the best way to avoid problems is to use common sense.
LARRY COX, FT. LAUDERDALE OCEAN RESCUE LIFEGUARD: Look at the flags that the lifeguards have up so that they're aware of the water conditions. Always swim near a lifeguard tower. And if you're not a strong ocean swimmer, on a rough water day, steer clear of the water.
WOLF: So basically, you know, when in doubt, don't go out.
COX: Exactly.
WOLF: Right. There you go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF: And Drew, here's the weird thing about this that you can have mostly sunny skies, it can look great outside. I mean, the water, you know, at the surface can be nice and gentle, but it's the current underneath that can be the big kicker.
And what's even more interesting is that you can have rip currents in places like the Gulf of Mexico. You can have them in the Great Lakes. You can have them in a lot of spots, and, you know, again, appearances can be very, very deceiving.
GRIFFIN: You know, I was trying to explain this to somebody. For people who hadn't been to the ocean or haven't been in a real rip current situation. You know that movie "Finding Nemo."
WOLF: Yes, yes.
GRIFFIN: Where the turtles jump on that little -- it's just what it feels like when you're out there ...
WOLF: It's a current.
GRIFFIN: ...the rip current. It's just a whoosh, like a river in the water.
WOLF: Absolutely. Yes, conveyor belts.
GRIFFIN: Just ride it out.
WOLF: It pulls you right down and it can be a strong thing.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
WOLF: Pretty scary no doubt.
GRIFFIN: All right, thanks, Reynolds.
WOLF: You bet.
GRIFFIN: Well, we've seen a lot of fireworks in town halls across America, talking about rip currents, they're going all through the country. Legislators facing concerned constituents on health care reform, but how much of an affect are those meetings there having on Americans' opinions and the job the president is doing?
CNN's deputy political director Paul Steinhauser joins us live with some polling that I'm not sure it shows us either way. Interesting numbers, to say the least, Paul.
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You know, Drew, you're -- the question you ask everybody is asking. We've seen so much coverage in the media of these town hall protests and they're mostly shouting against the president and the Democrats' plans on health care refrom. So, is it registering with Americans?
Check this poll number out. This is from just a couple days ago. This is an NBC News poll, and it suggests that -- you can see right there at the bottom, that six in 10 Americans say all this protests are really not making a difference on their opinions of the president's health care proposals. Up top, 16 percent said those protests are making them actually more favorable towards the president and 19 percent, that's about one in five, say less favorable.
The other question about these town halls, Drew, is are they appropriate or not? Is this democracy in action? Check out this number just from yesterday. This is an ABC/Washington Post poll, and it suggests Americans are kind of divided here, slightly more say these protests are appropriate, 45 percent say they are inappropriate -- Drew?
GRIFFIN: Paul, you know, the voter isn't going to have a vote in this. It's going to be the members of Congress and the members of Senate. So, I'm wondering if the president, does he have enough clout now after these meetings, after the heat that particularly his Democratic Congressional allies in Congress to get this passed?
STEINHAUSER: You know, one way to measure clout -- I guess the only way I can measure clout is taking a look at opinion polls of the president, his approval rating. Does he have the capital? Check this out. We have four new polls out this past week, national surveys on the president's approval rating. And you can see it ranges anywhere from 57 percent in ABC/Washington Post down to 51 percent in NBC and Pew.
Those numbers, Drew, have been pretty consistent over the last couple of weeks, but you remember, they're lower than they were. They used to be in the 60s, the low 60s as late as June.
And another number, check this out, specifically on health care. What do Americans think? Do they approve of the job the president's doing? This poll just out yesterday, ABC/Washington Post. It suggests Americans are divided, but slightly more disapprove than approve.
The president's numbers have dropped, Drew, on health care in a couple of these national polls over the last few weeks, but this doesn't mean the Republicans are going up. They're pretty much staying where they are, which is about half of the support the president has, Drew.
GRIFFIN: And on that health care poll, so does that -- in your mind, does that reduce his clout? Does that weaken his armor on this?
STEINHAUSER: You know, you could say that from looking at the drop in the approval rating and the drop specifically on health care. You could say maybe he doesn't have the clout he had earlier this month or last month.
But the true fight as you said will take place in Congress over the next two months as they try to hammer out bills in the Senate and the House. And they're probably going to be very different bills. One may have a public option, one may not. This only gets tougher, Drew, as we go on.
GRIFFIN: It certainly does. Paul, thanks a lot. You know, emotions are running high at these town hall meetings nationwide. We are covering the health care reform and part of that is we're going to air uninterrupted town hall meetings. You can hear from the people who are on both sides of this debate in their own words. Get the questions and answers on "Town Hall Raw," that's today at 2:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Ballot counting is underway in Afghanistan. The country held its second ever presidential election, that was Thursday. And despite the Taliban making good on its threats of election day violence, 26 people were killed there, we're now hearing of at least two incidents where extremists cut off the ink-stained fingers of voters.
As ITM's John Ray reported Friday, British troops have paid an even higher price for Afghan democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN RAY, ITM REPORTER (voice-over): Twenty-four hours since Afghanistan voted for a new president, there are still more questions than answers. Who won, and in homes many miles from here, whether it was all worth it.
Today, British soldiers were transporting ballot boxes from remote areas of Helmand where so many have died to make the province safe for elections. There are no confirmed figures, but a widely held belief that turnout was low, perhaps as few as one in 10 voted.
(on camera): That's where British soldiers have been fighting and dying to make the place safe for democracy. Those figures don't sound like a great success.
DAOUD ALI NAJAFI, INDEPENDENT ELECTION COMMISSION: But the people (ph), particularly to the people to come and cast their vote. But if the people that -- if the people don't come to cast their vote, that depends on the people.
RAY (voice-over): The people woke this morning to hear President Hamid Karzai already claiming outright victory. A claim disputed by his chief rival, and disbelieved by many Afghans. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to say that he is not a good guy, but strange things that we hear that why he said already that I -- I will win or I win the election.
RAY (on camera): Do you think there have been a lot of cheating then in this election?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think yes, there is a lot of cheating going on, because there are a lot of politicians, there are a lot of people that don't want peace.
RAY (voice-over): To allay fears of fraud, at each polling station, they've put up local results. There are many complaints of ballot rigging.
(on camera): The key question now for Afghanistan is whether these election results have enough credibility to stick, and for Britain, whether they justify the loss of so many soldiers' lives.
(voice-over): But at Friday prayers today, the overriding emotion here was relief that the elections are over.
John Ray, ITB News, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Now, rioting inmates and so much damage to a Kentucky prison, many are being transferred to other facilities. The prisoners set fires, causing extensive damage to six buildings. This at the Northpoint Training Center, and destroying much of the prison's food supplies. This is near Lexington. Eight inmates and eight staffers were injured in that violence in Kentucky.
In southwestern Ohio, the pilot of this biplane and a female passenger killed when it crash near a high school football field outside Cincinnati. The picture there caught as it was going down. There were kids holding a scrimmage on the field at the time of the crash. None were injured there. National Transportation Safety Board is trying to determine what exactly happened.
And in the Atlantic, as we've been covering all morning, all eyes watching that hurricane, Bill. Category 2 storm now churning its way past Bermuda toward the East Coast. It caused scattered power outages in Bermuda and flooded some streets, but didn't cause any injuries. Tropical storm warnings are now posted along coastal Massachusetts.
A YouTube message from Michael Jackson's doctor. He says he doesn't know anything he says can be used against him. Did he harm himself? Our legal guys are ready to weigh in on this one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: So, the Michael Jackson saga. This week, Michael Jackson's doctor posted a message on YouTube. I'm sure he wanted to do it against his lawyer's advice, but what kind of lawyer would let him do it? Were going to turn to our legal guys. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor. And Richard Herman is a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor.
Before we start, though, guys, I want to give a listen to anybody who missed this. This is the doctor who was with Michael Jackson that last night, basically posting a YouTube to his supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CONRAD MURRAY, MICHAEL JACKSON'S PHYSICIAN: Your messages give me strength and courage and keep me going. They mean the world to me. Please, don't worry. As long as I keep God in my heart, and you in my life, I will be fine. I have done all I could do. I told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail. God bless you, and thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Richard, I've been trying to get an interview with this guy since this happened. His attorney keeps telling me no, no, no, he's not going to make any statements. Then, we hear this. What's to be gained by this?
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know Drew, if you're a Michael Jackson fan, and hears a news flash, not everybody is. This Conrad Murray is the worst -- worst, pathetic, evil doctor in the world and the cause of Michael Jackson's death.
What they tried to do by this video, and I believe his attorney was part of it, too. I don't think this guy went on his own. I think that they're trying just to humanize him, to show he has a heart. He's a God-fearing man and he's not an animal. They're just trying to humanize him.
GRIFFIN: Avery, to what end? I mean, what does he care what the public thinks? He hasn't even been charged yet.
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes, no end. He's going to facing manslaughter, Drew. I'm mystified. If everybody remember's the old chestnut, anything you say may and will be used against you in a court of law.
And secondly, if the lawyer -- if Richard's right, if the lawyer's advising him, you stay away from what I call the Marion Barry syndrome. Whenever you get in trouble, you invoke the name of God. And that's exactly what Dr. Conrad Murray did. I am mystified strictly from a legal perspective why he would ever do something like that.
HERMAN: Hey Avery, if they go to trial in this case, and I don't believe there's going to be a trial, he's going to get indicted, there's going to be a deal. But if they go to trial, Conrad Murray's going to have to testify. So, this video is going to play right into his hands.
FRIEDMAN: Oh absolutely.
HERMAN: He's going to have to testify. GRIFFIN: What is ...
FRIEDMAN: Ridiculous move.
GRIFFIN: Let's not even -- guys, let's not even talk about the trial. Richard, doesn't this -- I mean, the first thing you're going to want to do if you're charged is try to get some kind of really low plea deal out of this and this I would assume would tick off the prosecutors more than anybody else.
HERMAN: Look, there is so much public pressure on this prosecutor to indict Conrad Murray, they targeted him day one. They built their case around him and the pressure is enormous to indict this guy. But Drew, it's a very difficult prosecution to have to prove gross negligence ...
FRIEDMAN: All the more reason ...
HERMAN: ...gross recklessness ...
FRIEDMAN: All the more reason why he shouldn't have done YouTube. What's he going to do, "Real World" next? I mean, it makes no sense to me.
GRIFFIN: Hey Avery, can you set up what's going on in this Caylee Anthony thing with the bounty hunter? I don't get it.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, well, I mean -- again, another astounding thing. I guess when you hook up with your bounty hunter, anything you say to him is privileged like a lawyer? I mean, it's mind-boggling to me that now there's an effort to try to block what -- what Ms. Anthony said to the bounty hunter. And you know what, that evidence is getting in. I don't even understand the theory.
HERMAN: OK. Drew, this guy crawls out of a rock from northern California ...
FRIEDMAN: Right.
HERMAN: ...infuses himself in this case in Orlando, Florida, posted bond. He's a bondsman. Now, all of a sudden, he's a bounty hunter, he's living with her so she doesn't flee so his money's protected. And during the course of living with her, engages her in conversations, gets information out of her ...
FRIEDMAN: There you go.
HERMAN: ...and then immediately runs to the authorities. But if you look on this guy's Web site, apparently Avery, he's a lawyer!
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
HERMAN: So, you know these are privileged conversations.
FRIEDMAN: I don't think so. I -- there's no lawyer/client relationship. He's a bounty hunter. That evidence is getting in, Richard.
HERMAN: What's the bounty? Who are they hunting? Come on.
GRIFFIN: All right, guys. I'm voting he's a bounty hunter just based on his dress.
FRIEDMAN: You're right, Drew.
GRIFFIN: OK? The cowboy hat and the black leather.
FRIEDMAN: There you go.
GRIFFIN: Thank you, guys. Always interesting.
FRIEDMAN: See you. Take care.
HERMAN: Take care, Drew.
GRIFFIN: And we want to move on to other stories now. Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is defending himself in the wake of the release of that Lockerbie bomber. We're going to hear his exclusive interview that he gave to CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: Two days ago, Scotland outraged a lot of people here in the U.S. when it released a bomber of the Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. Remember that crash, that explosion, took 270 people. Even more outrage came when you're seeing there, the terrorist returning to Libya to a hero's welcome. Now, we're hearing reports there may have been some kind of deal going on between Britain and Libya for this man's release.
In a letter now to the Scottish Secretary, FBI Director, the Federal Bureau of Investigation Director Robert Mueller is writing to the Scottish government, saying "I'm outraged at your decision, blithely defended on the grounds of compassion. Your action in releasing Megrahi," he is the bomber, "is an inexplicable as it is detrimental to the cause of justice." Mueller closes by saying "Indeed, your action makes a mockery of the rule of law."
Megrahi supposedly is dying of pancreatic cancer. Britain's former Prime Minister, Tony Blair, is also speaking out. This is an exclusive interview with CNN's John Vause.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Let me just make one thing absolutely clear. The Libyans of course were raising the case of Megrahi all the way along, not just with me but with everybody. It was a major national concern for them.
But as I used to say to them, I don't have the power to release Mr. Megrahi and indeed, the release that has taken place is a decision by the Scottish executor which has taken place on compassionate grounds and those compassionate grounds didn't even exist a few years back.
So, yes, his cause is absolutely right. The Libyans were always raising this issue. But we made it clear that -- the only way this could be dealt with was through the proper procedures.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: So, the deal that Shell announced in 2004, for the $900 million oil and gas deal with the Libyans had nothing to do?
BLAIR: Well, how could it? I mean, I wasn't in a position to say so-and-so should be released. That's not the way the British system works, and the -- the release of Mr. Megrahi, as I understand it, has been done by the Scottish executive, which I assume not merely myself but my successor has no influence over, on compassionate grounds, applying the normal rules rules to the Megrahi case.
So, you know, I think it's confusion of two separate things. Were the Libyans always raising it? Of course, they always raised it. It was a major issue.
Let me just make one other point, however, is that I actually think it is good, though, that we have a situation today in which Libya has come back in from the cold into the community of nations. You know, when I came to power back in 1997, Libya was still effectively a pariah nation and not just sanctions applied against it, notably by the United States of America, but also pursuing an act of -- chemical, indeed nuclear program.
So, you know, the fact that they have -- we have changed the relationship with Libya is a good thing. But this fire that's being talked about as I've just explained, these are two completely separate questions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: Checking our top stories in the CNN NEWSROOM. Tropical storm warnings out for the Massachusetts coast as Hurricane Bill barrels upward the U.S. coast on the Atlantic side. The hurricane blew by Bermuda early today, dropping some rain but leaving the island relatively unscathed.
Kentucky's governor, Steve Beshear applauding his state's corrections department for its response to last night's prison riot south of Lexington. Some of the 1,100 inmates housed there set parts of that facility on fire. A number of the buildings were so seriously damaged that they had to move inmates out. No people, though, seriously hurt.
Health care reform proposals continue to cause confusion and stir debate. Well, what are your concerns? You can send us your questions on Facebook at Fredricka Whitfield CNN or our blog at CNN.com/newsroom. And then, tune in today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern where our panel of guests will join me to separate fact from fiction in the health care debate. Stay with CNN throughout the day for the latest breaking news. "YOUR MONEY" starts right now.
