Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Auto Industry Bracing for Hangover; Frightening Predictions About Swine Flu; Did CIA Break the Law?; Banking on Bernanke
Aired August 25, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And first this hour -- Washington is on a wild spending binge to fight the recession. That means with little surprise, record-breaking deficits this year and over the next decade. Congress and the White House release competing projections today.
Both agree the deficit for fiscal 2009, which ends next month, will come in at close to $1.6 trillion. My!
Congress lowered its ten-year estimate from $9 trillion to $7 trillion, while the White House raised its from $7 trillion to $9 trillion.
President Obama wants his chief recession fighter to stay on the job another four years. He nominated Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke for a second term today. The president, vacationing on Martha's Vineyard, says Bernanke's bold actions prevented a second Great Depression.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The man next to me, Ben Bernanke, has led the Fed through one of the worst financial crises that this nation and the world has ever faced. As an expert on the causes of the Great Depression, I'm sure Ben never imagined that he would be part of a team responsible for preventing another. But because of his background, his temperament, his courage, and his creativity, that's exactly what he has helped to achieve.
And that is why I am reappointing him to another term as chairman of the Federal Reserve.
BEN BERNANKE, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: The Federal Reserve, like other economic policymakers, has been challenged by the unprecedented events of the past few years. We have been bold or deliberate as circumstances demanded, but our objective remains constant -- to restore a more stable, financial and economic environment in which opportunity can again flourish and in which Americans' hard work and creativity can receive their proper rewards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Bernanke's nomination requires Senate approval. Analysts have little doubt that will happen.
Home prices did something in the second quarter they haven't done in three long years. They went up. Case-Shiller's National Home Price Index increased almost three percent over the first quarter of 2009. Cleveland had the biggest rebound in the second quarter, up more than four percent from April to June. Only two cities in the 20-city index showed declines, Las Vegas and Detroit.
Coming up this hour, we will look at Ben Bernanke's second term as Fed chairman. What does he do for an encore? I will be talking with "Fortune" magazine's Colin Barr and Politico.com's Eamon Javers.
The Cash for Clunkers party is over, although auto dealers are getting a little more time to submit their final paperwork. They now have until 8:00 p.m. tonight. Still, the industry is bracing for a hangover.
CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow has our breakdown from New York.
Hi, Poppy.
How bad could this actually be?
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: I think "hangover" is a great way to put it, Tony. We're looking at what's projected to be a steep drop- off in U.S. auto sales right away.
A dealer in Portland, Oregon, telling us -- and I'll quote him here -- "I think you're going to be able to shoot a cannon through here," talking about his dealership, "and not hurt anybody."
Edmund's.com, Tony, the experts there saying sales are going to fall, they think, about 40 percent immediately now that Cash for Clunkers has wrapped up. That would take sales down to where they were in May.
Take a look here at this chart and you'll see what we're talking about.
Sales in May were below that 10 million mark. They were at about 9.9 million. We're talking about an annualized basis here of sales. Thanks to the Cash for Clunkers program, in July that rate soared to more than 11 million. The first time all year that it crossed that 10 million mark, so, a big, big boost for the U.S. automakers.
But the party can't last forever, Tony. And it's over.
HARRIS: It's over.
Aren't some of these dealers essentially wiped out of inventory?
HARLOW: It's a great question. They are.
We visited Bay Ridge Toyota in Brooklyn, not far from our studio here. The manager there said he doesn't have anything left to sell. We shot this video last Thursday, before Cash for Clunkers ended.
The general manager there, Drew Proshoda (ph), said Toyota cannot even tell him, Tony, when he might get nor cars. He said, "I'm out of corollas. I'm out of Camrys. I'm out of RAV4s."
You get the picture.
And the dealerships that do have cars left, what the experts are telling us, there's a lack of inventory, so the prices are going to be pretty high. So, the bottom-line takeaway here is, if you're in the market for a new car, you didn't get in on Cash for Clunkers, it's probably going to be worth your while to wait a little bit until they get more inventory, until those prices go down.
HARRIS: Well, what about manufacture/dealer incentives? Will we see more of those to try to lift sales in the meantime?
HARLOW: That's the question we had yesterday when we were looking into this. We called GM. We called Ford. Both of them say at this point they're not planning to provide any extra cash incentives.
It doesn't make sense that the inventory is so low on the lots right now. Analysts say, though, when you look at all of the incentives that may be coming back, what Edmunds.com says is you can expect an average incentive of about $3,000. But remember, Cash for Clunkers was about $4,500, Tony.
So, it's over. The dealers have to get all that paperwork in by tonight at 8:00. More details on that story right there on CNNMoney.com.
HARRIS: Heck of a party while it lasted.
Poppy, appreciate it. Thank you.
HARLOW: It was. It was.
HARRIS: To your health now and frightening predictions about swine flu. A government panel says up to 90,000 Americans could die of the H1N1 strain this fall and winter.
Our Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is with me now.
Elizabeth, look, this 30,000 to 90,000 swine flu deaths number, this fall and winter, is that on top of the deaths we see with the regular seasonal flu?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is. Right, as if it weren't frightening enough.
HARRIS: Yes.
COHEN: That is true. We're talking about swine flu deaths, and we're talking about regular seasonal flu deaths. So, we're talking about, very likely, more deaths due to flu in general than in previous years.
HARRIS: Wow.
COHEN: So, you mentioned the number 90,000.
HARRIS: Yes.
COHEN: That's the worst-case, kind of nightmare scenario. So I want to put it into perspective a little bit.
What this government panel found is that when they tried to estimate how many people will die of swine flu this upcoming flu season, they found that it would be between 30,000 and 90,000. Now, to put that into some perspective, 36,000 people die every year from regular seasonal flu, and so the deaths in that sort of top row there would be on top of the deaths that we see from seasonal flu.
Let's look at illnesses now.
What this report found is that 30 percent to 50 percent of Americans will become ill from swine flu. Regularly, about five percent to 20 percent of Americans become ill from regular seasonal flu.
So, you can see that these are pretty big numbers. They're on top of seasonal flu. But I would like to say that nobody really has a crystal ball. They're just estimating it. They don't really know.
HARRIS: OK.
COHEN: What they do know is most people when they get swine flu really are pretty OK.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
COHEN: You know, they're sick for three or four days, but they're OK. So, it's important to keep that in mind.
HARRIS: So, you hear the number and it sounds pretty frightening.
COHEN: Right.
HARRIS: But just keep it all in perspective here. I'm wondering -- maybe it's a good time for you to remind us of how many people in the United States have actually died from swine flu.
COHEN: Right, because I think people have forgotten that number as time has gone on.
So far in the United States, there have been approximately 522 deaths from swine flu. Now, take a look at this, you will see what separates swine flu from seasonal flu, what sets it apart.
Forty-one percent of those deaths are in people age 25 to 49 years old. Twenty-four percent, a much smaller number, in older people. And even smaller when you move into senior citizens. Sixteen percent ages five to 24.
So, as you can see, the bulk of these deaths are in people who are under the age of 50.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
COHEN: That's notable. In seasonal flu, it's usually older people who fall victim.
HARRIS: Help me with this. So, how many -- this is stacking up potentially to be a pretty big flu season -- seasonal flu, swine flu. I mean, how many shots are we talking about here? And how do we make a decision as to whether or not we get the series of shots?
COHEN: Right. If you want to be vaccinated against both seasonal flu and H1N1, you're going to get three shots.
HARRIS: Three shots?
COHEN: Three shots, because seasonal flu is one shot and then swine flu is two shots. You got to get one shot, and then you have to get another shot three weeks later. The reason for that is that none of us have ever -- our bodies haven't seen H1N1 before.
HARRIS: Got you.
COHEN: So, it takes two shots to get a good immune response.
Now, that's easy. The second part of your question is harder, which is should you get these shots?
HARRIS: Yes.
COHEN: You know what? It's not required. Kids don't need it to get into school or anything like that, and everyone is going to have to make their own decision.
If you see 522 deaths, oh, my goodness, a lot of these people are young, I'm young, I want to do everything I can, you're going to want to be first in line to get that swine flu shot. Other people just aren't -- they just don't want to get anything that's new...
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: Hello? Yes. Knock, knock, knock.
COHEN: And this one flu vaccine, in many ways, is new, because they had to -- you know, it's a new virus.
HARRIS: Sure.
COHEN: But, on the other hand, it's a flu shot, and flu shots have been around forever. So, you know, someone like you, not into getting this, you may opt not to get it. But, if, God forbid, people start dropping dead from swine flu, you and I should have another discussion and you might change your mind.
HARRIS: We should. Let's have it before we get there. All right. So, I wonder, what's the best advice here for all of us? We want to avoid the flu season altogether and get through this season unscathed. What's the best advice?
COHEN: Right. In addition to thinking about vaccinations, the best thing you can do to try to keep yourself from getting the flu is really basic stuff. I'm going to repeat it because we all forget it.
Wash your hands a lot, soap and water or a hand purifier.
HARRIS: Pass that on to your kids as well; right?
COHEN: Oh, yes, kids are terrible about that. Sing "Happy Birthday" three times while you're washing, all of that.
HARRIS: And your doctors, by the way. Hello?
COHEN: You need to sing "Happy Birthday" when -- your doctors need to wash hands. Yes. Don't let them near you if they haven't washed their hands. And you will have to tell them; I know from experience.
Also, don't go out if you're sick. Don't go to work. Don't sender kids to school.
Some people, you know, they Advil their kids up when they have a fever just to get it down long enough to get them in the door and then leave. Don't do that.
Also, cough into your sleeve, or sneeze into your sleeve. Someone calls it the Count Dracula cough. You know, you go like this. Yes, exactly. So, yes, that whole move.
So, do that. Don't sneeze into your hand and then shake someone's hand, "Hi. Nice to meet you." That's disgusting.
HARRIS: Hi. Nice to meet you.
COHEN: Right. Don't do that.
HARRIS: But we're healthy!
COHEN: Right.
HARRIS: All right. Good advice as always. Thanks, Elizabeth. Appreciate it.
COHEN: OK. Thanks.
HARRIS: As more details emerge about how some CIA interrogators handled terror suspects, big questions about the legal implications and what this means for the U.S. intelligence community moving forward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: Necessary steps to protect the nation after 9/11, or did CIA tactics used to question terror suspects cross the line? The Obama administration says it will investigate whether the interrogations broke the law. The announcement follows the release of a newly declassified report.
CNN's Joe Johns has details from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For those who say the U.S. tortured high-level al Qaeda detainees, and for those on the other side, who call it enhanced interrogation techniques, it was more fuel for both sides.
We learned that Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, a suspect in the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000, was threatened with an unloaded semiautomatic handgun pointed at his head. At one time, a debriefer also came at him with a power drill, but didn't touch him with it.
The report also details mock executions. In one instance, a gun was fired in a room next to the one where a suspect was being held, so he would think a prisoner was being killed. Then, when the guards moved the detainee from the interrogation room, they passed a guard who was dressed as a hooded detainee lying motionless on the ground and made to appear as if he had been shot to death.
There were also threats against the families of the prisoners, of Nashiri's family, one debriefer saying, "We could get your mother in here" and "We can bring your family in here."
But the report says, the debriefer denied that was a threat. Still, the report also said one interrogator threatened 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, saying, "If anything else happens in the United States, we're going to kill your children" -- all of it more fuel for the critics of the CIA, and enough for the Obama administration to announce that the FBI, not the CIA, will lead a new special unit of terrorist interrogators.
(on camera): The new information will also keep the human- rights-vs.-security debate going strong, begging a question: Are U.S. interrogators from the Bush era now going to be prosecuted under President Obama?
BILL BURTON, OBAMA CAMPAIGN NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: Well, as the president has said repeatedly, he thinks that we should be looking forward, not backward. He does agree with the attorney general that anyone who conducted actions that had been sanctioned should not be prosecuted.
JOHNS (voice-over): The attorney general asked special prosecutor John Durham, who is already looking into the CIA's interrogation techniques, to also try to determine whether interrogators crossed any legal lines.
But Mark Danner, the author of "Torture and Truth," has been pushing for the president to get to the bottom of the story, and says, it's not about the interrogators; it's about the policy-makers.
MARK DANNER, AUTHOR, "TORTURE AND TRUTH": The Obama administration has gone far to acknowledge, or at least to tacitly agree, that the things the Bush administration declared legal were, in fact, legal, that it won't investigate those decisions. And that, it seems to me, is a tragedy.
JOHNS: Whatever the case, none of this is particularly good news for the folks at the CIA, whose director, Leon Panetta, wrote in a letter to his troops that, in many ways, this is an old story, though he knows so far, it's not nearly old enough to be forgotten.
Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Vice President -- make that former Vice President Dick Cheney says harsh CIA interrogations prevented terror attacks and saved lives. He blasted the Obama administration in a statement.
Cheney says -- quoting now -- "President Obama's decision to allow the Justice Department to investigate and possibly prosecute CIA personnel, and his decision to remove authority for interrogation from the CIA to the White House, serves as a reminder, if any were needed, of why so many Americans have doubts about this administration's ability to be responsible for our nation's security."
California's economy has take an real beating in this recession. The job market has been hit especially hard, but government jobs have escaped some of the pain felt in the private sector.
The story now from CNN's Casey Wian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California has one of the nation's highest unemployment rates, 11.9 percent last month. Since July 2008, California has lost more than three-quarters of a million jobs. Hardest hit, construction, manufacturing and trade. Yet as those private sector jobs disappear, the number of people working for the California state government has actually risen by 1,600 in the past year.
CHRISTOPHER THORNBERG, BEACON ECONOMICS: The private sector is always worried about the threat of failure. I mean in -- in the private sector, if you don't pay your bills, you go bankrupt, you lose your job, your company gets closed down, it ends up in the hands of the creditors. Governments don't have those kinds of pressures.
WIAN: Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has ordered many state workers to take unpaid furloughs to help close California's massive budget deficit. State lawmakers also have approved budget cuts that are expected to reduce some government jobs. Still, the perception persists that California's state government is a bloated, inefficient impediment to private sector job growth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just taking a little break from the state Senate here in Sacramento.
WIAN: This month, neighboring Nevada, despite an even higher unemployment rate than California's, launched an aggressive advertising campaign designed to lure businesses away. Now one golden state lawmaker is retaliating with an ad paid for by his own campaign fund.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If anything Nevada businesses should be moving to California, let's face it, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas, but what happens in California makes the world go round.
WIAN: We asked Assemblyman Jose Solorio what besides the ad campaign are lawmakers doing to spur private sector job growth in California.
JOSE SOLORIO (D), CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: We actually enacted $8.7 billion in tax cuts for targeted small businesses, whether they're in the movie, TV production area, whether dealing with trying to get more small businesses to hire new workers to a very successful new home buyer tax credit that helps the home buyer but that has also helped create new jobs in the construction industry.
WIAN: Even so, California lost nearly 36,000 more jobs last month alone.
(on camera): There are a few bright spots in California's employment picture. Jobs in health care and education services, as well as jobs in agriculture, have all grown slightly over the past year. And despite the continuing growth in taxpayer-funded jobs, California has one of the lowest per capita ratios of government jobs of any state.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Well, here's a question for you. How will health care reform impact Medicare? The Truth Squad is checking out that question.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Let's get you the top stories now.
President Obama today nominated Ben Bernanke for a second four- year term as Federal Reserve chairman. The president called his actions on the global financial crisis bold and out of the box.
New deficit predictions for the next 10 years are out today. Congress cut its estimate from $9 trillion to $7 trillion. The White House Budget Office raised its outlook from $7 trillion to $9 trillion. Either way, it is a record.
You know, it is one of the biggest concerns we've heard about health care reform in America, how will it impact Medicare? Will benefits be lost? Our Josh Levs is here with the answers.
Josh, if you would, "truth squad" this for us.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're going to take a look at this right now, Tony. You know, a lot of people bringing this up.
The short answer here, really, is that the cuts that we're hearing about are not aimed at Medicare benefits, but the reality is not as simple as either side presents it. Let's take a look at the kind of complaint we often hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELAINE TRAVIS, FORMER AARP MEMBER: What they're doing is just, you know, taking away from Medicare. They are reducing Medicare by $500 billion. And they're going to do away with the Medicare advantage plan. You know, that's just disastrous for seniors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVS: Now, she was talking about leaving the AARP, which some people are doing.
Now, the AARP itself has talked about this. Let me show you the Web site here. They talk about myth versus fact.
And one of the myths they list, Tony, is this idea that Medicare cuts will happen -- that Medicare benefits, rather, will be cut. They say, "Myth: health care reform will hurt Medicare." They are saying that's not the case.
And just the other day, here's what President Obama told people that they should tell seniors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: ... that we are not reducing benefits under Medicare, that we think Medicare is a sacred trust. In fact, part of what we want to do is strengthen Medicare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVS: So, which is it? Are Medicare benefits being cut, are we strengthening Medicare? What's going on here? Here are some facts. Let's go straight to these screens; I want you to see this.
Now, there is no final bill, as we know, Tony. But there is a bill moving through the House. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office looked at this and they said, yes, under this bill, $500 billion projected funding would be cut to Medicare over a 10-year period. But the key is on the next screen. The idea is those funds are not aimed at cutting actual benefits.
The administration says they would rein in the growth of payments to doctors. They would cut subsidies to something called Medicare Advantage, which basically pays private insurers. So, the idea behind it is that you can cut inside the Medicare program without actually cutting the benefits that people receive.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
LEVS: That's why the verdict here is this that we have here on the last screen, misleading. Because as currently planned, Tony, cuts would not be aimed at the benefits inside Medicare.
But just to show you how important this is and how significant this is, you know our good folks at Politifact, we like them a lot. Right? They're on with us a lot.
They listed this as well. They looked at the president's statement that we're not talking about cutting Medicare benefits. They gave that a half true when they looked it on their Truth-O-Meter, and the reason they gave is here.
They say, look, "Experts told us it's conceivably or even likely financial changes could lead to reduced benefits, particularly for people in the Advantage program."
So, basic idea, if I've got to summarize it into one sentence, is the goal is not to cut benefits. But there are analysts looking at this who say it's possible that could be a result. So, it's something we all need to watch out for in the coming years, if legislation even happens -- Tony.
HARRIS: Yes. Good stuff. All right, Josh. Appreciate it. Thank you.
LEVS: Thanks, Tony. You got it.
PAYNE: The president banks on Ben Bernanke. What does a second term for the Fed chairman mean for the U.S. economy and any recovery? Two guests give us their views next in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Hey, very quickly, I want to show you these pictures just in to the CNN NEWSROOM from our affiliate WABC out of New York. But this is in Rockaway Township, New Jersey.
Take a look here. We've got a small plane that has made an emergency landing, a bit of a crash landing, as you can see here. This is in the parking lot of a New Jersey mall.
And I've got to tell you, it looks like the pilot did a really good job here. No one on the ground injured. Some slight injuries, we're told, to the pilot, but he certainly survived the crash landing.
No cars in the parking lot were hit on this crash landing. So, a good job, it looks like, all in all by the pilot in getting this plane down without hurting anyone on the ground.
Again, this is Rockaway Township, New Jersey, and a small plane landing there in a New Jersey mall parking lot. Everybody OK. The pilot's OK and everyone on the ground is OK.
Again, at this time we always like to remind you to get the latest financial news and analysis by going to our Web site here. It's beautiful. The work by the Money team here is awesome, CNNMoney.com. There again you can find the latest financial news and analysis.
Quickly now, let's get you to the New York Stock Exchange. Three hours into the trading day. We have been in positive territory all day and we are getting very close to triple-digit gains for the Dow. As you can see, the Dow is up 94 points. Quickly, anyone with a Nasdaq number for me? Thank you, Joe. The Nasdaq is up 18. We are following these numbers with Stephanie Elam in for Susan Lisovicz today, all day, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Well, President Obama interrupted his Martha Vineyard's vacation today to nominate Ben Bernanke for a second term as Fed chairman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As an expert on the causes of the Great Depression, I'm sure Ben never imagined that he would be part of a team responsible for preventing another. But because of his background, his temperament, his courage, and his creativity, that's exactly what he has helped to achieve. And that is why I am reappointing him to another term as chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Ben approached a financial system on the verge of collapse with calm and wisdom, with bold action and out-of-the-box thinking that has helped put the brakes on our economic free-fall. And almost none of the decisions that he or any of us made have been easy. The actions we've taken to stabilize our financial system, to repair our credit markets, restructure our auto industry, and pass a recovery package have all been steps of necessity, not choice. They faced plenty of critics, some of whom argued that we should stay the course or do nothing at all. But taken together, this bold, persistent experimentation has brought our economy back from the brink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: When the history of this recession is written, Ben Bernanke will get much of the credit or blame depending on how the downturn shakes out. "Fortune" magazine's Colin Barr joins me from New York. And in Arlington, Virginia, politico.com's Eamon Javers.
Gentlemen, good to see you. Thanks for your time.
And, Eamon, let me start with you here. Why is the president reappointing Ben Bernanke?
EAMON JAVERS, POLITICO.COM: Well, the reason is Wall Street wants him. You know, the sentiment on Wall Street is really in favor of this guy and I'm told that the administration was really listening very carefully when they were talking to CEOs and other Wall Street executives that Ben Bernanke really has some support there. And then the other reason is you've got to look at the Dow Jones Industrial average, which has been on a relative tear since about March and is up about 1,500 points. Clearly that's a sign of a relatively healthy and slowly recovering economy. That's the story line that the administration really wants to continue. They want to take some credit here for some of these green shoots, as we've been calling them, in the economy and start to send a signal to Wall Street that there's some continuity coming here.
HARRIS: Well, Colin, you know, for all the screaming about what hasn't worked from this administration and what won't work, you hear a lot of that talk when it comes to health care reform. Has Ben Bernanke worked? Did he head off a deeper economic slide?
COLIN BARR, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Oh, I think so. I think he definitely did a good job of acting when it was time to act. One of the things that he did was he flooded the market with cash and he did that because he didn't want to repeat the episode of the 1930s, which he studied and when the Fed stood on the sidelines. So he was very active and very forthright about what he was doing.
HARRIS: Yes. And, Eamon, what did he do, specifically? What did he do?
JAVERS: Well, what he did was he pumped a ton of money into the economic system and he also participated in a lot of these bailout decisions that have been both criticized and praised. The biggest criticism coming from the administration's decision last year under the Bush administration to allow Lehman Brothers to fail, which . . .
HARRIS: That was my question. Yes. Did he -- could he have done more? Should he have done more to prevent that failure?
JAVERS: Well, what he has said about that is that they could not have done more. That they were trying to prevent that failure, but that it was simply out of their hands. They worked all through the previous weekend trying to keep that from happening. And then once it did happen, they saw the dramatic consequences. Sort of sent Wall Street into shock when that happened.
And they decided that they couldn't allow any of these so-called "too big to fail" institutions to fail any more. And he says that he's found it very distasteful to have to go in and bail out some of the very companies that brought us this financial meltdown, but he had to grit his teeth and do it because he wouldn't want to be the Fed chairman who presided over a second Great Depression. That's how bad he thought things were last year.
HARRIS: And, Colin, does Bernanke, at some point have, have to unwind some of the measures he's put in place here? And isn't it true here that anything that Bernanke has done to this point can really be undermined by these exploding deficits and inflation?
BARR: Right, that the question is, how do you get out from under all this stuff that they've done. And nobody knows the answer. And I don't think Bernanke does either. He wrote an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" last month in which he said technically what they'll do. But what he didn't address is what the politics of that is. And that's the big question is, you know, how much will the American people take when it comes to inflation and those things? I think Bernanke's going to end up in a very, very tricky position.
HARRIS: Yes, Eamon, why don't you pick up on that. How does he -- does he have to unwind this and how does he do it?
JAVERS: Well, he does have to unwind it. They've injected a lot of cash into the system. At the big trick is going to be, at some point, Ben Bernanke's going to have to make a call and decide to raise interest rates, which he's lowered to effectively zero percent at this point. That's going to be extremely unpopular when he does that.
And the question is, will the American people tolerate that politically? That's why Bernanke talks so much about the independence of the Fed. These decisions, he says, should be made by people who aren't professional politicians and who don't really have to answer to the public. And in many ways, the administration and Congress might agree with that. They'd be happy to shuffle that decision off to somebody else and somebody they can blame.
HARRIS: Yes. All right, gentlemen, that was good. Eamon Javers of politico.com and Colin Barr of "Fortune" magazine. Gentlemen, thank you.
JAVERS: Thanks a lot.
BARR: Thanks.
HARRIS: A cocktail of sedatives, topped off with anesthesia. The reason for Michael Jackson's sudden death becomes a lot clearer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: And this just in to CNN. Five car bombs strung together exploded just a short time ago in Afghanistan. Officials say the huge blast rocked the southern city of Kandahar, which is the spiritual home of the Taliban. Thirty-three people are reported dead. Dozens more wounded. A provincial council member says the blast targeted a Japanese construction company that mostly hires Pakistani engineers.
Partial results are now in from Afghanistan's presidential election. They show a slim margin separating incumbent President Hamid Karzai from his main rival, Abdullah Abdullah. Election officials stress only 10 percent of last week's votes have been counted. The margins may change as more results are released over the coming days.
Our top stories now.
A small plane crash lands in the parking lot of a New Jersey shopping mall. These pictures just in to CNN from -- just a short time ago. A witness said the pilot survived and was being treated by paramedics. No one on the ground was injured. New federal deficit projections for the next 10 years are out today. Congress cut its estimate from $9 trillion to $7 trillion. The White House Budget Office raised its outlook from $7 trillion to $9 trillion. Either way, it is a record.
President Obama, today, nominated Ben Bernanke for a second four- year term as Federal Reserve chairman. The president called his actions on the global financial crisis "bold" and "out of the box."
Preliminary findings from the coroner's office suggests Michael Jackson died from a lethal dose of Propofol, the powerful anesthetic used in hospital operating rooms. That information is detailed in court documents released yesterday, which also show an unsettling time line.
According to an affidavit, Dr. Conrad Murray first administered a cocktail of anti-anxiety medication and a sedative. But when that didn't help Jackson sleep, he gave him 25 milligrams of Propofol. Officials believe that was the fatal dose. Propofol is considered so dangerous it requires constant monitoring. CNN's chief medical correspondent, Sanjay Gupta, shows us why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So we are here inside the operating room with Dr. Gershon (ph), who's the chief of anesthesiology here. Propofol is a medication he uses all the time.
So is this it right over here?
DR. GERSHON: Yes.
GUPTA: It looks -- milk of amnesia, they call it.
GERSHON: Milk of amnesia.
Vincent, you OK? We have to monitor his EKG. We have to monitor his entitle (ph) CO2. We have to make sure that he's breathing. We have to see his saturation. We have to make sure he's ventilated.
GUPTA: So these are all -- that's all typical stuff anytime you use these . . .
GERSHON: That's standard of care, yes.
GUPTA: OK. So the Propofol . . .
GERSHON: We're going to start infusing this. You're going to get a little sleepy, Vincent, OK. Give me some good, deep breaths.
GUPTA: And watch this go in. Take a look at his eyes, how quickly they . . .
GERSHON: Deep breaths, Vincent. Doing great. You may feel a little burning, OK.
GUPTA: Ten, nine . . .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep breaths.
GUPTA: Eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
GERSHON: There's a reason for his heart rate increasing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to switch hands.
GERSHON: So as you can see, his eyes have closed.
GUPTA: His eyes closed. And what else are you looking for?
GERSHON: Now I look up here because he stopped breathing. So this is watching his entitle CO2 and he's not breathing anymore and my wonderful (INAUDIBLE) is going to help him breathe.
GUPTA: We'll take a look over here. All the breathing right now is taking place with this bag and this mask. From that medication, he wouldn't be able to breathe on his own without those things.
Oh, there you can see part of the problem. Just with that much Propofol there, he stopped breathing and he's going to need a breathing tube.
GERSHON: Easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easy. It's in.
GERSHON: There it is.
GUPTA: What's so attractive about this medication?
GERSHON: Well, (INAUDIBLE) -- it's really been in the advent in the last 10 years or so, even more, 15 years. And it's just basically a quick on, quick off. And that may answer why people may think that this is something they can do at home, because if it gets out of hand, it goes away quickly. But the problem is, it gets out of hand and there's nobody there to resuscitate you, then nobody can bring you back.
GUPTA: So that was pretty quick. You just gave some of the medication. You're going to . . .
GERSHON: Five, 10 minutes.
GUPTA: Five, 10 minutes, he's gone from being completely awake, to completely asleep.
GERSHON: He's not breathing. I'm breathing for him.
GUPTA: The one thing it's worth pointing out is that this is a hospital that uses this medication thousands and thousands of times a year. But they do use this medication in non-hospital settings, like outpatient clinics. The doctors here will tell you they've never heard of it being used in a home. (END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Whoa. Dr. Gupta wanted us to let you know the patient you saw going under the anesthesia is doing just fine. He woke up shortly after surgery without any complications from the Propofol.
Liftoff, take two. NASA planning to launch the shuttle "Discovery" at 1:10 tomorrow morning. That's after scrubbing today's early morning liftoff because of thunderstorms. Discovery's seven astronauts were already aboard the shuttle when blastoff was called off. It's set to deliver thousands of pounds of equipment to the International Space Station.
You know what, let's get Chad in on this.
Chad, is the forecast better for tonight's scheduled launch?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: No, actually, yesterday was pretty good. It was supposed to be 80 percent chance of launch with weather, 20 percent chance of no. And we had a couple of showers right along the cape and we're probably going to have more again today and in for tonight. They were lingering showers. I don't see too much right now. Might not be a bad time to launch it. The problem is, you can't just launch it anytime you want to because then the shuttle can't catch up with the space station.
So the whole effect here is, will there be clouds -- will there be still cloud cover left? Will there still be some rain showers around the cape later tonight in the 1:00 a.m. hour? And then probably. Maybe 30 percent chance of something there. That still means 70 percent of a go. But, you know, when you get something around there, these launch probabilities are so -- and the possibilities are so fine and minute, you can't have a cloud within 13.7 miles. You can't have a wind over this -- from this direction, you know? Really everything has to be perfect. Obviously they want everything to go well, Tony.
HARRIS: Sure.
MYERS: They don't want some cloud to get in the way or rain showers to get in the way. They don't want rain on the shuttle. They don't want ice on the shut to fall off if that rain gets there. You know, all of those things. All of those things that we have.
One more thing I want to talk about, maybe the next possible storm could be Danny. We'll see. Right now it's just a little cloud mass. They are running the computer models on this cloud mass. I will open them for you. So far, so good. They really don't -- most of them do not run at the U.S., although I will really say this, how great the models were last time, Tony. It's still too early, because we don't know how big it is yet.
HARRIS: Got you.
MYERS: We don't know really where it is, because it's still kind of just a blob out there. HARRIS: Right.
MYERS: The computers are going to have to fine-tune their forecasts. And right now, I would say, East Coast, keep watching in the next 48, 72 hours, we'll know a lot more.
Tony.
HARRIS: Awesome. All right, Chad, appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
Want to give you a quick update on the breaking news. It's certainly a developing story right now. Five car bombs strung together exploded just a short time ago in Afghanistan. Our Atia Abawi is in the Afghan capital of Kabul.
Atia, what can you tell us about this string of explosions here?
ATIA ABAWI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, what I can tell you is the chief of police of Kandahar City told us that this explosion killed at least 33 civilians, injuring 36 civilians. This is one of the biggest blasts, car bombs that we have seen killing civilians in a very, very long time in all of Afghanistan.
This occurred outside of the NDS building. That's the intelligence building there in Kandahar City. Also around other government buildings. But let's remember, this occurred at night after Ifdar (ph). It's Ramadan right now. It's after their fast break. Around shops. Around a school. Killing civilians. Again, the Taliban's target may have been the government. At times it's the coalition. But in the end, they killed more Afghans and killed more Muslims than any of their intended targets.
Tony.
HARRIS: And, Atia, maybe you can help us with this bit of information. We're getting reports that the blast actually targeted a Japanese construction company that mostly hires Pakistani engineers. Is that something that you have been able to independently confirm?
ABAWI: At the moment, that's not the information that we heard. We're hearing that it was in front of the NDS, that's Afghan intelligence. This is an organization that the Taliban hates. This is an organization that has gone after the Taliban, but it's also a symbol of the government. So, at the moment, what we are hearing, it was around those government buildings, but we will check in on that as well.
Tony.
HARRIS: OK. All right, we'll go with your information. Atia Abawi for us in the Afghan capital of Kabul.
Atia, thank you.
We're back in a moment. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So here's a story for our animal lovers. Yeah! A Canadian news anchor takes a licking, a tongue licking, from a pit bull on live television. And we can't see it enough. CNN's Jeanne Moos has the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We've all taken our licks, some at a very young age.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her hair is standing on end. It's all wet.
MOOS: But licked to death on live television?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get off. This is crazy.
Now, this is Ginger.
MOOS: Ginger, the "up for adoption" pit bull. Make that kiss bull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ginger just loves people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love Ginger. I love you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't have any makeup left!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. OK.
MOOS: Ginger's removing the makeup from Randy Neil, who co- anchors "Global BC Noon News" in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They need a wee bit of training.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, really, you think? And is she spayed because . . .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's spayed. Ouch! Be nice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm really tired.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You stop that. Stop nipping. That is so not good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, don't jump. Don't jump. OK, down, Ginger, down.
MOOS: Better to be kissed by a pit bull than clawed by a cat, as this Fox 8 News reporter in Cleveland was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The couple is going to have to come right -- ooh!
MOOS: The cat didn't get Ginger's tongue, the anchor did. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Ginger. Oh, Ginger!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 604-709.
MOOS (on camera): All that licking didn't deter folks. The shelter got hundreds of calls from people interested in adopting Ginger. An adoption was actually arranged, but later fell through. So, Ginger is still available, if you like your kisses wet. Getting a shower like this, no wonder the anchor called for the weather woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, stop it! Stop it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Wesla (ph). Wesla. Wesla.
MOOS (voice-over): Rear-ended to boot!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
MOOS: The sports anchored wondered if Randy's husband got as much face time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he husband even get that much face time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really, stop it.
MOOS (on camera): You know, it's hard to watch anchor Randy Neil without thinking of a watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been loved by Ginger! Ginger loves me!
MOOS (voice-over): And none too gingerly.
Jeanne Moos, CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ooh! Ooh!
MOOS: New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Don't stop until you get enough!
An update now on Ginger's status. The dog who loves to lick has found a foster home. A pit bull trainer has agreed to take in Ginger until she's adopted, teach her some commands and tame that licking!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: She won our battle with breast cancer, but the fight left her with a mountain of credit card debt for medical treatment her insurance didn't cover. In our health care in focus segment, San Francisco photojournalist Jeff King introduces us to Catherine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CATHERINE HOWARD, BREAST CANCER SURVIVOR: I have a great job, but I live like a pauper because I basically spend all of my money servicing the debt that I accrued while I was sick.
In 2004, I was working as a documentary film producer. I wasn't making a lot of money, but I knew that keeping up my health insurance was a priority. I was afraid that I would break my arm snowboarding or take a fall at work.
I picked up the phone, and I said, "I would like to buy some health insurance, please." And this is the outcome. I ended up almost $100,000 in debt after being diagnosed with breast cancer, having surgery, chemo therapy, radiation. Some of these things I just put them on my credit card, because I thought, if I don't die, I'll deal with this later.
I pay something around $1,800 a month towards all my debt related to my illness, both the tens of thousands of dollars that I paid because my insurance didn't cover me. And then the, you know, not being able to work.
I have this great plan through my work now. But if I went back on the open market and tried to buy myself some health insurance, they wouldn't cover me. I have a pre-existing condition. You know, once you've had cancer, I could never just go out and buy the same crummy coverage that I had before. I would be denied.
I am a really determined person, and overcoming cancer, I felt, has just been my mission for the last couple of years, and getting out of debt, I guess, is another one. And just bankruptcy seemed like a cop-out. And I don't cop out on stuff. I hope I'm alive to see the day I'm out of debt, you know? I'm 36 years old.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: She is something, huh? Catherine.
If you're looking for more of what you've been seeing here on CNN, check out cnn.com/healthcare. You can even find out about the closest town hall meetings to you, the key players in the debate, the different plans and, of course, the controversial sticking points to the plans.
It's go time. We are pushing forward now with the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM with Kyra Phillips!
