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Remembering Edward Kennedy; New Homes Sales Surge

Aired August 26, 2009 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: It is Wednesday, August 26, 2009. In the CNN NEWSROOM this morning, remember the power and passion of the Senate's unapologetic liberal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: As I look ahead, I am strengthened by family and friendship. So many of you have been with me in the happiest days and the hardest days. Together, we have known success and seen setbacks, victory and defeat, but we have never lost our belief that we are called to a better country and a newer world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: A chapter closes on a family's extraordinary political dynasty. This hour, Senator Edward Kennedy's long legacy from civil rights to health care reform.

Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

He became the patriarch of one of America's most prominent political families. The liberal lion of the Senate, he was considered one of the most effective lawmakers of the past few decades. Senator Edward Kennedy also had passed the torch to a new generation of leaders with his endorsement of Barack Obama's presidential bid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: I believe a wave of change is moving across America if we do not turn aside, if we dare to set our course for the shores of hope. We, together, will go beyond the divisions of the past and find our place to build the America of the future.

My friends, I ask you to join in this historic journey to have the courage to choose change. It's time again for a new generation of leadership. It is time now for Barack Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: President Obama paid tribute to Senator Kennedy in a statement just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The outpouring of love and gratitude and fond memories to which we've all borne witness is a testament to the way this singular figure in American history touched so many lives. His ideas and ideals are stamped on scores of laws and reflected in millions of lives in seniors who know new dignity, in families that know new opportunity, in children who know education's promise, and in all who can pursue their dream in an America that is more equal and more just, including myself.

The Kennedy name is synonymous with the Democratic Party, and at times Ted was the target of partisan campaign attacks. But in the United States Senate, I can think of no one who engendered greater respect or affection for members of both sides of the aisle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And for more now on Senator Kennedy's life and legacy, I am joined by my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, in Washington.

Wolf, good morning.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Tony. Thanks very much.

I want to alert our viewers, we are standing by to speak with Senator John McCain, a close, personal friend of Senator Kennedy, and with former president Jimmy Carter. Both of those interviews are coming up.

I guess Senator McCain is already on the line with us.

Senator McCain, if you're there, I know this is a sad day for you and so many of the colleagues that you have, but it wasn't just liberal Democrats who loved Senator Kennedy, it was a lot of conservative Republicans.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA (via telephone): Oh, there was, because Ted Kennedy had this unique way of doing hand-to-hand combat on the floor of the Senate. And as soon as we stopped our speechmaking, he'd come over and put his arm around you and make everybody appreciate that we had our differences, politically, but personally we could be friends and work together as colleagues and friends for the good of the country.

BLITZER: How much will he be missed in the Senate?

MCCAIN: He's already missed, Wolf. I think we may have made progress on this health care issue if he had been there. He had this unique capability to sit people down at a table together -- and I've been there on numerous occasions -- and really negotiate, which means concessions. And so, he not only will be missed, but he has been missed.

BLITZER: He worked with you closely on immigration reform, on education, a whole bunch of other issues. He had that unique ability to get people of different political persuasions on the same page.

MCCAIN: Well, he did. Let me just give you a small example.

He had his hide away up in the Capitol, and it was pretty nice. He was one of the most senior members, and you walked into his hideaway, and there were pictures of Jack Kennedy, of Bobby, of his childhood, of his family. And he'd kind of take you on a little tour, you know, of his brothers and tell stories and anecdotes, put you at ease. And whenever there was (INAUDIBLE), or anything like that, he had a remarkable way of sending out a little note or calling your family, or something like that.

If I could -- I don't want to -- I know your time is limited, but when Russ Feingold and I were awarded the John F. Kennedy Profiles in Courage Award, it happened to coincide with my son Jimmy's 10th birthday. I didn't want to get there until the very end. He said, look, please come early because it's important.

To make a long story short, we came with my son Jimmy. There was a Coast Guard cutter there that came, a cruise around Boston Harbor. Three birthday cakes, all kinds of presents. They sang "Happy Birthday" to him, like, 10 times, and it was probably the best birthday that Jimmy McCain ever had.

That's Ted Kennedy.

BLITZER: He was a unique presence for 40-plus years in the Senate. Now there is no Kennedy in the United States Senate.

Do you believe in your gut -- and you alluded to this, Senator McCain -- that if he had been healthy over the past several months, some sort of compromise on health care could have emerged?

MCCAIN: I think we would have made great progress. I'm not positive that we -- obviously of the outcome, but I know there would have been serious negotiations. And so far, there really has not been serious negotiations, in all due respect. And that would have happened. And so, therefore, I think we certainly had a far better chance of an outcome.

BLITZER: Because everyone says that Senator Kennedy, even though he was very liberal, when it came to making deals, he could bridge that gap and he was a man of his word, and that you and Senator Orrin Hatch and a lot of other conservative Republicans trusted him. Is that right?

MCCAIN: That is absolutely correct. Probably the most overrated aspect of the United States Senate is that people keep their word. Ted Kennedy always kept his word. He would keep his word to the point where he would vote against his positions in order to preserve a carefully crafted compromise.

BLITZER: People are watching here in the United States. Indeed, all over the world, Senator McCain.

Give me a final thought. Maybe something you would want to address directly to the Kennedy family.

MCCAIN: Well, there's one thing that I think that has epitomized the Kennedy family, and that is service the country, and a country above one's own self-interest. Ted Kennedy, I think, epitomized that service to the country.

He had a very heavy burden of an incredible tradition to carry on. He shouldered it, he became an institution within an institution. And all of us will not only miss him, but perhaps maybe try to carry on his legacy of reaching across the aisle and getting things done for the American people. We need this now more than ever before.

BLITZER: Senator McCain, good luck. Thanks very much for joining us.

MCCAIN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: From Senator McCain, let's go to Ramallah, on the West Bank. The former president of the United States, Jimmy Carter, is joining us now.

President Carter, I know this is a sad time for you, even though going back to 1980, you were political rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Give us a thought of what's going through your mind right now.

JAMES CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, Rosalynn is here with me. We've been in Israel this morning and now the West Bank. And we've already expressed our personal condolences and prayers to the Kennedy family, with a firm expression from our family that we've never seen anyone in the Senate that more assiduously and constantly and enthusiastically dedicated his life to trying to make sure that everything that the U.S. government decided was in the best interest of the people who were deprived of, poor, neglected or felt the ravages of discrimination. And we really appreciate what Ted Kennedy meant to us personally and to our nation, and I don't think there is anybody, either, that can say there has been a more effective Senator in promoting his own ideals, which are very high, than Ted Kennedy did.

BLITZER: I know we have a delay in our interview because of the satellite, but give us, from your perspective, the two or three biggest legislative accomplishments of Senator Ted Kennedy's life.

CARTER: Well, I don't think there's any doubt that as far as my family is concerned, it is what Ted Kennedy and his son and the House of Representatives did working with Rosalynn, my wife, in making possible legislation last year that eliminated the discrimination against mentally ill people and put the mentally ill on the same basis with physically ill people, as far as getting guarantees of adequate insurance is concerned.

This is something on which my wife worked since even before I ever went into national politics when I was governor. And this was kind of the culmination of her achievement in removing the stigma from mental health, mental illness, and then promoting mental health on an equal basis.

And what Ted Kennedy did in the Senate and what his son did in the House of Representatives culminated in the legislation that was passed. So, this is the most important single piece of legislation that affected our family.

BLITZER: Yes. That was Congressman Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island who, himself, suffered from some problems as far as mental health is concerned.

Let's go back to 1980. I was re-reading Adam Clymer's book on Senator Kennedy. And in that book, he makes the point that one reason why Senator Kennedy decided to challenge you for the Democratic presidential nomination was because he was disappointed you weren't moving more quickly on health care reform, specifically a national health insurance program.

Is that your recollection?

CARTER: Not at all. I have just the opposite impression of that.

But Ted Kennedy began running against me about the middle of 1979, and in the fall of 1979, he was two to one -- or three to one ahead of me in a national opinion poll. So, we had a very tough, hard-fought, maybe sometimes divisive campaign against one another in the winter and springtime of 1980. And eventually, I defeated Ted Kennedy quite severely.

And I think that was one of the things that divided our party the rest of that year. But I worked very eagerly to try to get a comprehensive health bill passed. And although it didn't meet the perfection standards that Senator Kennedy espoused, it would have been a major step forward. So, we didn't quite agree on the technique getting health care guaranteed for everyone, but we both had our hearts in the same direction, I would say.

BLITZER: And it was a tough political process that you and Senator Kennedy went through for that Democratic nomination. But I remember -- and we've spoken about this in the past, you and I, President Carter -- he didn't even shake your hand at that Democratic Convention, and that sort of set the tone for a lot of Democrats, perhaps not voting for you when the November election came.

CARTER: I don't think there's any doubt about that, as I said in my previous remarks just a minute ago. The Democratic Party division that was promulgated between the Kennedy group and mine never was healed during that summertime and the fall campaign. And that was one of the factors that was important in a general election.

But after that occurred, and even before I went out of office, Ted Kennedy and I were completely reconciled as far as friendship was concerned. And since then, whenever I had a major problem that dealt with the Carter Center's business overseas or in any way related to health or welfare or the benefit of poor people in this country and others, I have called on Ted Kennedy as a friend and he's always been fully supportive. So, those political skirmishes were soon forgotten and the friendship prevailed.

BLITZER: So, over these years since you left office, since you left the White House, you did have a good working personal relationship with Senator Kennedy?

CARTER: Absolutely. We cooperated on health matters, on welfare matters, on immigration matters, and also on things that concern the Carter Center and our work, which is 75 percent involved in dealing with neglected diseases overseas. And he was very interested in our work there. Also, we worked very closely with the Centers for Disease Control, and that was another interest that Ted Kennedy had.

But to repeat myself, the major issue on which we cooperated as families that included me, as well as my wife, was the mental health program. And that turned out to be, I would say, gloriously successful.

My hope now is, by the way, that although Ted Kennedy won't be active on the floor anymore, that his legacy, his commitment, the resonance of the speeches he made, his dedication over our lifetime will be remembered by his peers in the Senate, and also his friendship of people in the House, and that we can still have a comprehensive health program passed this year. That's my hope, and I believe that would really be the culmination for the Kennedy family of acknowledging the great contribution that he's made to our country.

BLITZER: I know your time is limited, President Carter, but, quickly, you're there in the Middle East right now. You were just in Israel. Now you're in Ramallah, in the West Bank. You've been meeting with Israelis and Palestinians amid a lot of speculation that peace talks between the Israelis and Palestinians potentially could get off the ground very soon.

What's your assessment?

CARTER: Well, there is a great deal of pessimism here in the West Bank, and I would say in Israel, as well.

Last night, we met with about 15 of the top leaders in the business and financial community of Israel. And the most strongest points made was that one of the greatest mistakes that Israel has ever made for the Israeli people was the building of settlements in Palestine. And, of course, I think it's very wise that President Obama has singled that out as a test case.

If that can be maintained, without deviation by our country, which has been agreed to in the Annapolis meeting by the former prime minister of Israel, Olmert, and also repeated by the International Quartet just last year, last month, in July, that no additional settlements should be built in the occupied territories. And that includes a natural expansion.

That's a major step forward, and everybody over here is praying that our country will be successful in inducing that premise, and then go on to good-faith negotiations. There's no doubt in my mind that everybody over here is watching very closely to see what we will do.

I understand that there's a possibility maybe next month or something -- I'm not speaking for anybody, I don't have any inside information -- that the United States might put forward a comprehensive plan or picture of what peace can mean to the Israelis and to all their neighbors, including the Palestinians, and also the Lebanese and the Syrians. That's our prayer and that's our hope.

BLITZER: Good luck over there, President Carter. Be careful. We'll see you back here in the United States. And thanks for joining us on this day to remember Senator Kennedy.

Good luck with the peace process in the Middle East, as well.

Jimmy Carter is the former president of the United States.

Don't forget, later tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, we will re-air HBO's special documentary on Senator Ted Kennedy, "Senator Kennedy in His Own Words," 700 p.m. Eastern. This is a two-hour documentary you're going to want to see and hear, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, later tonight.

Our coverage will continue right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Yes, so much for orderly debate. A health care town hall in Virginia erupts in chaos. Reform opponents reportedly spent the entire two hours trying to shout down Congressman Jim Moran and former Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean yesterday after publicly pledging to disrupt the event.

Shiites in Iraq are mourning one of their top leaders. Abdul Aziz al-Hakim died today in neighboring Iran, where he was undergoing lung cancer treatment. Al-Hakim had been an ally of both the United States and Iran.

Let's return to Washington for more on Senator Kennedy's life and legacy. And let's get you back to our Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Tony, thanks very much.

Ted Sorensen was an adviser and speechwriter for President John F. Kennedy. His most recent book is "Counselor: A Life at the Edge of History."

Ted Sorensen is joining us now from New York.

Mr. Sorensen, thanks very much for coming in on this day to remember Ted Kennedy.

What's your best memory of Ted Kennedy?

TED SORENSEN, PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY'S SPEECHWRITER: I have so many memories of Ted because he's been my friend for 56 years. And I can still remember the first weekend we met at the family home in Hyannis Port. I can also remember the time we met just a little over a year ago, when he asked me to come to a meeting that he was convening to help plan an institute or a foundation for the study of the history of the United States Senate. I gave him a copy of my new book, "Counselor," with an inscription especially for him. Only a few days later, he wrote me, "Thanks for the book and the inscription," and a cover letter that predicted a Democratic win in the Obama election in November of '08, which he said -- this is Teddy talking to me with optimism. He said, "That will make possible all the ideals for which you have fought."

Well, that was very nice of him, but he's the one who's fought for those ideals all these years.

BLITZER: You've written and spoken about the fact that after Chappaquiddick, in 1969, one of the first phone calls that Senator Kennedy was made to you.

Tell us about that conversation if you can.

SORENSEN: No, the phone call came from his brother-in-law, Steve Smith, who was the all-purpose family coordinator and adviser. And Steve asked if I would come up to Teddy's home in Hyannis Port and try to give some counsel and assistance on the crisis that faced him.

BLITZER: And you went.

SORENSEN: I went. I was a lawyer, I was a friend, and he needed help. And that's been my role over the years, is to try to help people, and particularly Kennedys.

BLITZER: Did you help him draft that speech he delivered on television after Chappaquiddick?

SORENSEN: I had a hand in it, Wolf, but as I said in my book last year, that whole terrible weekend has been so over-reported and so overanalyzed all these years, I don't think it deserves anything that I try to say off the cuff. Here, today, I'll stand by what I say in the book, which I hope you read.

BLITZER: A lot of people have.

One final question, just a quick thought to his family. And you have been so close for more than 50 years to the entire Kennedy family. A quick thought from you, Ted Sorensen, to the Kennedy family.

SORENSEN: It's a big family. But I want to first say to his wonderful widow, Vicki, whose parents I knew long before Teddy knew her -- her parents are wonderful Democrats and public-minded people. And Vicki herself is a lawyer, who was a perfect help mate for Teddy, made him happy, and pretty much took over all the coordination of his needs during his last year. And I want to salute her and thank her.

And for all -- I also, of course, want to remind people that there's another Kennedy sibling, Jean Kennedy Smith, the former U.S. ambassador to Ireland, a formidable lady in her own right. And she will now carry on the Kennedy legacy, and so will the next generation.

Teddy's children, Patrick, a great congressman, Ted Jr., also in the health care world. His daughter has her own successful career. And all the nieces and nephews, Carolyn Kennedy, Bobby's children, they are all going to continue in the family tradition of commitment to public service and the national good.

BLITZER: Ted Sorensen, we appreciate your thoughts very much. Thanks so much for joining us.

SORENSEN: My pleasure.

BLITZER: We'll continue to remember the life and times of Senator Ted Kennedy. He's being called the defender of the dream. We're bringing you the pictures and the legacy this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And very quickly, we want to get you to the Big Board, New York Stock Exchange right now.

And boy, after trading in positive territory for most of the early session -- we're exactly two hours into the trading day -- stocks, as you can see, are essentially flat or negative now. The Dow down five points, and the Nasdaq down five, as well.

Some more encouraging news today about the housing market. New home sales surged in July for the fourth straight month and actually exceed expectations.

Personal finance editor Gerri Willis live from New York.

Gerri, this is good news. By how much did sales increase?

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Well, we saw a pretty dramatic increase, according to the Department of Housing and Urban Development and Census Department. They say new home sales rose 9.6 percent, surprising analysts, as you say. The number, 433,000 new homes sold in the month of June, and that's up from 395,000 in the previous month, and it's the highest since last September.

And, of course, as you know, Tony, it's an important indicator for the housing market, but also for the broader economy, because the housing industry employs so many people in the follow-on spending. When people buy new homes, they buy furniture, they buy carpeting, everything else it takes to run a household. It's critical, really, to the broader economy.

HARRIS: Well, what do these latest numbers seem to indicate, say to you about the state of the housing market?

WILLIS: Well, I think you're beginning to see the early stages of recovery. If you look at some of the other numbers we've gotten recently, existing home sales have experienced four consecutive month of rising sales. That's critically important because the existing market is so much bigger than the new home sales market.

Also, home prices have improved, as well. You know, we got a report recently that for the three months ended in June, prices -- now, this is critical to Americans who own a home -- generally were up 2.9 percent. That's really important to Americans and how confident they feel with their wallets, Whether they're going to spend on other things.

Really, this housing crisis has really stung people. They've really been depressed about spending. This is beginning to show some increases here that could be good news, not just for the broader economy, but of course for the housing market. One of the things, of course, improving what's going on right now, housing affordability all-time highs, lowest prices in 20 years -- two decades, Tony.

HARRIS: Wow, encouraging new numbers.

Gerri, appreciate it. Thank you.

WILLIS: My pleasure.

HARRIS: Tributes are pouring in from across the country for Senator Edward Kennedy from the president and his congressional colleagues. The flag atop the Capitol Hill dome flying at half-staff. More from Wolf Blitzer and the Best Political Team on Television on the life and legacy of Senator Edward Kennedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. President Obama describes Ted Kennedy as the greatest United States senator of our time. Reaction to the senator's death has been pouring in from the president, the vice president and lawmakers.

Let's talk about it with our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash, who's here with me. Also, our senior political analyst Gloria Borger. Let's talk about the president of the United States first, Dana. You know, he was very precise. He had his words carefully crafted. But you could see he was also speaking from his heart.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, there's no question about it, because, I mean, just starting at the beginning of his history of his Senate, you know, Senator -- then-Senator Obama was much like many other young senators, freshman senators coming in. They went straight to the man who could teach them something. And that was Senator Kennedy.

It helped that Senator Kennedy, you know, took a liking to Senator -- then-Senator Obama and thought maybe that he, you know, did have a big future. So, that was the beginning, and of course, then there was the moment in 2008 when Senator Kennedy endorsed Obama instead of Clinton. So, they do have a lot of personal connection, and they do have, of course, critical history.

But, actually, we were talking about this earlier. It's really brief. When you talk about all of these people who are putting out statements, they've known Senator Kennedy for decades and decades and decades. President Obama, they certainly have a tight bond for obvious reasons. But it's not a bond that lasted long.

BLITZER: And one of those people who's known Senator Kennedy for so long, worked with him for so long was Senator Biden, now Vice President Biden. They worked in the Senate for a long time, and you could see how choked up he was when he spoke off the cuff.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Totally choked up. I mean, this is a relationship that goes back three decades. And the thing that really struck me about Joe Biden's statement was something we hear a lot about Ted Kennedy, which is the sense that after he's endured all the things that he endured during his life, there was this sense of optimism about him, the sense that he would not give up.

And when Joe Biden lost his wife and a child in a terrible car accident and was in the hospital with his other two young children, it was Ted Kennedy who called him on the phone and said to him, you can't quit. You've got to stay in the Senate because Biden, at that time, was just thinking of just leaving the Senate because, obviously, he had many more things on his mind. And it was Ted Kennedy who brought in doctors.

So, there's a long relation, but it just wasn't just for Joe Biden. This is something that people talk about over and over and over again about the way Senator Kennedy operated. And that is, he understood the power of personal relationships, and he did it with Barack Obama. The first person who ever told me to pay attention to Barack Obama was Senator Ted Kennedy. And I remember running into him in the Capitol, and he said to me, you know that Barack Obama, you pay attention to Senator Barack Obama. He's going somewhere.

BLITZER: And even the Republicans are coming out and praising him. And we heard Senator McCain just a little while ago speak from his heart, as well.

BASH: Absolutely. And I think we actually have a written statement from Senator Orrin Hatch, who is a good friend of Senator Kennedy's even though he's a conservative Republican. And I can read that.

He said, "When I first came to the United States Senate, I was filled with conservative fire in my belly and an itch to take on any and everyone who stood in my way, including Ted Kennedy. I soon found out that while we almost always disagreed on most issues, once in a while, we could actually get together and find common ground, which is essential in passing legislation."

Now, I mean, you know, we've talked about this for so many hours now. The fact of the matter is that Republicans love to hate Ted Kennedy and love to use him for fundraising, love to use, you know, unflattering pictures of him. And you know, he was the ultimate liberal. But at the same time, they knew that when they needed to get things done, when they really wanted to get things done, they could come to him.

And as Senator McCain said to you just a short while ago, the main reason is because when Senator Kennedy gave them his word, they believed that he meant it.

BLITZER: Yes. It wasn't Senator McCain or Senator Hatch who liked to use unflattering pictures or use Senator Kennedy in these fundraising appeals.

BORGER: And you know, Kennedy was very well aware of it. He used to kind of laugh it off. He understood that he was a target. He would also use it to his own advantage to raise money for the Democratic Party. But I think what we're talking about here with Senator Orrin Hatch and John McCain is not the so-called career politicians we hear about. These are career legislators.

This is what Senator Ted Kennedy was. He was a career legislator, the best of his generation, maybe the best we'll ever know. But that's what he dedicated his life to once he figured out he couldn't defeat Jimmy Carter for the Democratic nomination.

BLITZER: Back in 1980. We spoke with Jimmy Carter about that. Guys, thanks very much. Don't go away.

Let's go back to Tony right now. He's watching what's going on, as well -- Tony.

HARRIS: Wolf, appreciate it. Thank you.

Let's check other stories in the news right now.

The Taliban are denying any involvement in a bombing that killed 43 people in Kandahar, Afghanistan, yesterday. The Associated Press says it received the denial in a text message from the militant group's spokesman.

A wildfire raging in the Angeles National Forest near Azusa, California. About 1,000 firefighters are on the scene right now of the 750-acre fire. Fire officials say it is less than 10 percent contained.

His message was clear, and Ted Kennedy never wavered throughout good times and bad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: Beyond what he was in life, to be remembered simply as a good and decent man who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it. Those of us who loved him and who take him to his rest today pray that what he was to us and what he wished for others will some day come to pass for all the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, a mentally disabled man was shot and killed by police. Today, almost four years later, investigators are still trying to figure out exactly what happened, and the family is still seeking justice.

CNN's Drew Griffin has more as part of our special Katrina anniversary coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four years after the storm, a mystery remains about the shootings on the Danziger Bridge. But everyone does agree on one point: That first Sunday after the hurricane, police shot and killed a 40-year-old mentally handicapped man.

The question: Was it justified? Rommel Madison says there is only one answer.

(on camera): You believe police, New Orleans police, murdered your brother?

ROMMEL MADISON, BROTHER OF VICTIM: Yes, I do.

GRIFFIN: And then covered it up?

MADISON: Yes.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Now, four years later, armed with a search warrant, the FBI and other federal law enforcement officials descended on the New Orleans Police Department, seizing records, investigative files, evidence Rommel Madison believes will prove a police cover-up.

It was in the chaos engulfing New Orleans that Lance Madison and his mentally handicapped brother Ronald, fleeing floodwaters, ran head-on into what's become known as the Danziger Bridge killings.

LANCE MADISON, BROTHER OF VICTIM: I think he was shot about right over here.

Right here. And we kept running up the bridge here, trying to go zigzag so they wouldn't hit us.

GRIFFIN: Crossing the bridge, they suddenly found themselves being shot at by armed men dressed in T-shirts, driving a postal truck. What they didn't know was the armed men were actually police who thought they were coming to the rescue.

There had been a frantic radio call that Sunday morning. It was reporting police under fire, contractors being shot at on this bridge.

(on camera): It turns out it was all just one big mistake in the chaos after Katrina. Some would say it was based on lies. There were no contractors under fire on this bridge. Police never found anybody with a gun.

(voice-over): What they did find was a man running away from them, down this bridge. They chased him, shot him and killed him.

Two people were killed that day. Ronald Madison was one of them. Another four were wounded.

The seven police officers involved have always said the shooting was justified. And the New Orleans Police Department, which investigated itself, agreed.

The civil rights division of the Department of Justice is now trying to figure out precisely what happened on the bridge.

And as Tulane University criminology professor Peter Scharf points out, it is now the New Orleans police investigation itself that is being investigated.

PETER SCHARF, TULANE UNIVERSITY: The more critical question is not the seven guys on the bridge, but can this police department investigate itself?

GRIFFIN: Police say they fired in self-defense when Madison reached for his waist and turned on them. But over the past four years, CNN has been uncovering details that raise doubts.

An autopsy revealing Madison was shot in the back. Lack of any evidence Madison was ever armed. And finding a witness who says he saw officers line up and gun down a man running away.

KASIMIR GASTON, WITNESS TO SHOOTING: With arm motion moving and...

GRIFFIN (on camera): And then how did he fall?

GASTON: He just fell like he was collapsing, like he was collapsing. Like something had just, like, wiped him out.

GRIFFIN: You didn't see any gun on him?

GASTON: I didn't see any on him.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Seven police officers cheered as heroes by their colleagues were indicted for the murder and attempted murder of Ronald Madison. But the case was thrown out on a technicality. And six of the officers are now back on the street.

(on camera): You believe these officers did nothing wrong, that there was no crime or even misconduct on that bridge?

MIKE GLASSER, POLICE ASSOCIATION OF NEW ORLEANS: None whatsoever. We're confident that these officers acted appropriately, in fact heroically. And we're certain that this investigation will have the same conclusion as the last one. That they did, in fact, act appropriately and heroically.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Rommel Madison says in the aftermath of Katrina, the police force did what it wanted.

(on camera): Of all the victims of Hurricane Katrina, your brother among them, was justice and the rule of law also a victim in this town? R. MADISON: Yes, they were just as badly wounded as my brother was because it just doesn't exist.

GRIFFIN: The federal Justice Department wouldn't comment for this story, wouldn't confirm that they're investigating the possibility of a cover-up by the New Orleans police.

What the Justice Department is promising is a thorough review of the facts and circumstances surrounding the shootings on the Danziger Bridge.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Health care reform was a passionate priority for Ted Kennedy. The senator's death comes as the debate reaches a critical point in Congress.

Let's talk to senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen and in Arlington, Virginia, politico.com's Jeanne Cummings. Ladies, good to talk with both of you.

And Elizabeth, let me start with you. It's important to remember now, as we continue along the path in this debate over health care and health care reform that Senator Kennedy was talking about this issue long before many, and he never gave up the issue.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. It's hard to remember now, as we're all so steeped in health care reform, but in the 1970s, there weren't a whole lot of people who were talking about it in the same way that he was. And as Tony said, he did not give up.

As a matter of fact, he wrote a story in "Newsweek" magazine that I have right here. And he calls it the cause of his life. That's what he called it, the cause of his life.

And he never gave up on it. One of the reasons, and Tony, we were talking about that, this is when his son, Teddy, Jr. had cancer.

HARRIS: That's right.

COHEN: He was in an experimental study. And the study ended early, and the study gave free care. But when it ended early, a lot of the kids didn't have a place to go. They had no more free care, and they had no insurance. And some of the parents were asking, let's just, you know, can he get half the chemotherapy.

And he said, what a terrible thing to all of a sudden start thinking, oh, my child should get half the chemotherapy because I can't afford the whole chemotherapy. And he knew that he had to do something. HARRIS: Jeanne, I'm curious. Maybe you heard this. Senator John McCain said in his conversation with Wolf earlier this hour that we might be in a different place on the health care issue with Senator Kennedy at the center of the discussion.

Do you agree with that? And I'm wondering how the conversation might be different that we're having right now.

JEANNE CUMMINGS, POLITICO.COM: Well, I think that this may, you know, really motivate and embolden those who want reform to do it in honor of his lifetime service. I think that could have an impact on many senators who were very close to him. The concern, Tony, is that both sides of this debate could take his death as their rallying cause and that they could -- it could prevent the kind of compromise that is necessary to get the bill through.

HARRIS: Yes.

CUMMINGS: A compromise, in fact, that only -- maybe only Kennedy could have bartered, or somebody's got to step up to the plate here and barter it. And so, he's not going to be there to do it. He hasn't been there to do it. And we have yet to see someone rise to step into that role.

HARRIS: And, Elizabeth, I want to give the same question to you. What will the loss of Senator Kennedy, in your estimation, mean for the health care debate and the reform effort moving forward?

COHEN: I think to some extent, it depends how politicians can sort of harness any feelings, any sentiment that is here as a result of the senator's death. I mean, are they able to say, wow, look at what this man did while he was alive. This was his lifelong dream. Let's make it happen.

HARRIS: Yes.

COHEN: Is there that kind of sentiment? Is there that kind of love out there for the senator to make that happen? And I think as Jeanne said, there's also a loss, because he maybe could have done the bartering, and now he's not here to do that.

HARRIS: Jeanne Cummings, appreciate it. Good to see you, Jeanne, and Elizabeth as well.

And, Elizabeth, as a matter of fact, you will be back with us live next hour. And you actually have for us a story about a young girl whose life was literally saved because of the intervention of Senator Kennedy.

COHEN: Right. We usually think of Senator Kennedy in a macro way, health care policy reform, but this was a micro way where he managed to save the life of a little baby who was stuck in Soviet Russia. Senator Kennedy flew to the Soviet Union to save this little girl and the rest of her family. And I'll have that story up in the next hour.

HARRIS: OK. And that is coming up next hour right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We're going to take a quick break, and we're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: We are hearing from many of you today with your thoughts about the passing of Senator Ted Kennedy. Our Josh Levs is here with some of your tributes -- Josh.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, since this morning, we've had an assignment up on ireport.com inviting people to send in your thoughts. Let's just go to an example here, and I have a quote that we pulled out from Kyle in Kentucky, who is telling us what he's thinking about today when he thinks about Senator Kennedy.

He says, "I loved to watch Ted on the floor, jumping up and down, hollering and screaming at the other Congress members, fighting for the little guy. He goes on to say, "The most memorable moment" for him "was when they said they should be ashamed for giving themselves a raise and not giving minimum wage an increase."

That's just one of the many we've been getting throughout the day. We're inviting you to join the conversation here at ireport.com, also on our blogs, CNN.com/tony or /josh, either way you'll get to our blog. You can weigh in right there. Also, we've got a conversation going in Facebook here, Josh Levs CNN. People sharing memories, also links to videos, your thoughts. We've got it all going, Tony. I'll be camped out here following your reactions throughout the hour.

HARRIS: All right, very good. Josh, thank you.

LEVS: You've got it.