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Senator Ted Kennedy Remembered; House of Convicted Kidnapper and Rapist Being Investigated in California

Aired August 29, 2009 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDREW IMPARATO, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Well, you know, I think many of us who work in the disability field, we feel called to do it. We feel like this is what we were put on the planet to do. That would be true if this law had passed or if it hadn't passed.

But I think the movement that created the law was the movement that buoyed Senator Kennedy as he came back to these issues, to do create health care opportunities for parents of children with disabilities with health care for their children, to do the mental health parity legislation most recently.

He understood how powerful this movement was and he saw himself as part of the movement. And it is a powerful movement and we're all grateful to his leadership today.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: His sister Eunice also a crusader in this area with her passing a couple weeks ago, Timmy Shriver picking up where mom and dad Shriver leave off with Special Olympics. But who do you suppose really carries the baton of Teddy Kennedy and this sort of sensitivity and commitment to people with disabilities?

IMPARATO: Well, again, I think that's one of the beautiful things about the Kennedy family. There are so many people carrying that baton today, whether it's Tim Shriver at the Special Olympics, whether it's Patrick Kennedy in Congress who is such a champion for the rights of people with psychiatric disabilities, whether it's Ted Kennedy, Jr. serving on my board and being a spokesperson for the disability community. We have so many in that generation.

And let's not forget Jean Kennedy Smith, who's still alive, and who created BSA Arts, which created opportunities for people with disabilities in the arts.

This is a family that has given and given and given to the disability community, and we're very grateful.

WHITFIELD: Andrew Imparato, thanks so much for your time and your reflection. Appreciate that.

IMPARATO: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well, he was born into privilege and inherited a desire to help those less fortunate. The Kennedy legacy. We'll hear from some of those whose lives were changed by Ted Kennedy as well. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His goals were to improve the lives of Americans everywhere. He did so by not just working with his own Democratic Party, but also reaching across the aisle to ask for the help and the opinions of Republicans and independents.

This is his best lesson, this is his legacy. By working together we can accomplish great things. All we need every now and again is a little push.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Earlier today President Obama eulogized Senator Edward Kennedy as a champion of the common man and the greatest legislator of our time. Mr. Obama and three former presidents were among 1,500 invited guests at the senator's funeral today at Our Lady of Perpetual Help Basilica in Boston.

Mr. Obama noted that Kennedy was known as "the lion of the U.S. Senate," but he also remembered Kennedy's personal side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Uncle Teddy, or as he was often known to his younger nieces and nephews, "the grand frommage," or "the big cheese." I, like so many others in the city where he worked for nearly half a century knew him as a colleague, a mentor, and above all, as a friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: For years the Kennedy name symbolized political royalty for many, but with the death of the last of the three famous Kennedy brothers, that era comes to a close.

Our Candy Crowley shows you the big shoes Ted Kennedy had to fill and the legacy he leaves behind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He had a name that rang down through generations. It was a gilded name in politics, but Ted Kennedy's life was an almost impossible kaleidoscope of outstanding public service, astonishing personal failures, and a heavy burden of the unfulfilled legacies and promise of three older brothers -- Joseph, Jack, Bobby.

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It reminds me of, there's a great quote by Earnest Hemingway who said that everyone is broken by life, but afterwards some are stronger in the broken places.

CROWLEY: At 36, Teddy, the youngest of the Kennedy's, became the patriarch when Bobby, whose 1968 presidential campaign championed the sick, the poor, and the elderly, was assassinated.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Those of us who loved him and who take him to his rest today, pray that what he was to us, and what he wished for others, will someday come to pass for all the world.

CROWLEY: In the four decades since that day, the Kennedy legacy was Teddy's to fulfill, his to write. It's an imperfect story of an often reckless young man who lived hard, and as a U.S. senator, drove a car off a bridge after a party, killing a young campaign aide.

He would never be president. The dream of Camelot, as Jackie Kennedy once described her husband's brief presidency, was over the night Kennedy conceded the primaries to President Jimmy Carter.

KENNEDY: For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.

CROWLEY: So Kennedy returned to the Senate. And there, over the next 30 years, he grew older, wiser, and greatly admired. In the Senate was redemption. In the Senate, the dream came alive.

In the Senate, early in the morning, late at night, Ted Kennedy fought and cut deals for minimum wage increases, health care, education, immigration reform, help for the poor, the elderly, and the sick.

SEN. CHRIS DODD, (D) CONNECTICUT: Millions of people who counted on this guy every day to stand up for him. And for decades to come, history will talk about his legislative accomplishments and the difference he made in public policy.

CROWLEY: Even before Kennedy's death, colleagues on the right and left mourned his absence in the health care debate. Now, they feel it acutely.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Of all the times to lose Ted Kennedy, this is the toughest time, because we are just in too many camps. It is hard to reach across the aisle. And Senator Kennedy made it easy to reach across the aisle.

CROWLEY: Eventually, someone will fill the Senate seat of Edward Moore Kennedy, but there is pretty much universal agreement, nobody, family or friend, can take his place. A man has passed, taking with him a time and an era. The Kennedy legacy is written.

Candy Crowley, CNN Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Paying tribute and laying to rest Senator Ted Kennedy here in the nation's capital even though his body is still in the Boston area making its way to an Air Force base there in Boston. Then it will be flown to Maryland just outside the nation's capital here, and then a procession will take place. It will be taken through the streets of Washington, D.C. And along that route, our own Don Lemon, he's at Constitution and Seventh Avenue. This is an area where a number of people are already starting to line the streets throughout the nation's capital, Don, to get their last glimpse, their last public glimpse of the casket of Senator Ted Kennedy as it makes its way to Arlington National Cemetery, which will be the final resting place, and that's later on this afternoon -- Don?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, absolutely.

A very warm day here in the nation's capital, Fredricka, as you can attest. You have been here all morning. And we have been watching people come by, and they're asking us what time exactly the procession is going to come by. And the best we can offer is anytime between 3:00 and 6:00 this evening.

We have been people from all over the country, some people who were just here vacationing, other just Washingtonians who are out, and some people who came here really specifically for this who are standing right across, as you said, Fred. But there's the national archives, and beyond that the Justice Department.

Just want to show you where we are here. Constitution and Seventh here, and they're going to close some of the streets down beginning in just a little bit as soon as the body arrives at Andrews Air Force Base.

And as we have been reporting it will leave Hascomb Air Force Base in Massachusetts in just a little while, and it's expected the body will arrive at Andrews at about 3:00. So anytime between that time and about 4:00, 5:00, 6:00, the body will come through the streets here.

Just talking to some of the folks. This is Linda Conrad and she came with her son Carl, and they are from Midland, Michigan, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Midland, Michigan.

LEMON: Why are you going to stand out here in the heat and all of this for Ted Kennedy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it's history in the making.

LEMON: Yes. You're emotional. Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am.

LEMON: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a Kennedy. They're American history.

LEMON: It means a lot to you. You grew up watching them and following them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

LEMON: Tell us about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just Kennedys are a national name. Whatever they do makes news, and it's history.

LEMON: We knew that he was ill. We weren't exactly sure when it would happen, but I'm sure it still came as a surprise to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it did.

LEMON: What did you think when -- and where were you when you heard about it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was at work. I was checking stock market on the Internet and it popped up that Ted Kennedy had died.

LEMON: You brought your son. Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here on vacation. We had planned this months ago, and we just decided to stay here and watch.

LEMON: And you -- she wanted you to be here to witness history, Carl, and you're going to stand around and witness. How old are you, by the way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am 11.

LEMON: Eleven. And do you know a lot about the Kennedys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not really.

LEMON: But you're going to stand here and watch and I'm sure you'll learn a lot, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess so. My mom dragged me out here.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Well, it's good that you're mom dragged you out. When you become an old man like me and a lot of other folks you'll be glad she brought you out here to witness history.

And thank you very much for sharing that moment with us.

We know it's emotional for a lot of people, Fredricka, a lot of people sharing the same sentiments. I spoke with one lady from Puerto Rico show said she came to town just to be here. She said her dad would be proud of her that she's here because he did a lot for Puerto Ricans.

Some African-Americans really saying the same sentiment, saying that he was a champion of civil rights, not only him, but his family, and also it meant a lot to them that he supported President Barack Obama.

So a lot of folks are out here starting to gather on a warm day, as I said, here in the nation's capital, and they're ready to watch the procession and pay their respects to Ted Kennedy -- Fred?

WHITFIELD: A lot of members of the general public who will be there to pay their last respects and before making it down Pennsylvania Avenue and Constitution Avenue before eventually making its way across the Memorial Bridge, Don.

We know that the casket will also make a stop at the U.S. Capitol because maybe as many as 100 people who worked for Senator Ted Kennedy there on Capitol Hill will also get a chance to pay their last tribute there, they're final respects before that motorcade and the casket making its way to Arlington National Cemetery.

All right, Don Lemon -- go ahead.

LEMON: And Fred -- no, I was going to say the last time we really saw anything like this was back in 2006 when Gerald Ford came through. He really made a brief sort of ride through the nation's capital, but then sat in stayed, laid and stayed for quite a while and then went to his hometown of Grand Rapids where he was buried.

But the last time we saw anything that was sort of this significant and had this many folks was Ronald Reagan back in 2004. Huge crowds gathered here in the nation's capital and along the mall.

And it's going to, just as he did, it's going to pass the Lincoln Memorial and other sites here as they make their way to the final resting place for Ted Kennedy. He's going to be buried with his brothers, as we know.

So it's going to be interesting to watch. It's been a sad moment.

Also some, you know, lighter moments as well as we saw at the funeral, and you heard the little boy here saying, my mom dragged me out.

WHITFIELD: He'll appreciate it later.

LEMON: He'll be glad when he's an adult.

WHITFIELD: He may not get it now but he'll appreciate it later. And lots of light moments, lots of laughter, and that's what's made it so wonderful in this tribute to Senator Ted Kennedy on this day.

Really now three days nationally these sets of remembrances that have taken place publicly for all to witness and be a part of.

Don Lemon, thanks so much, there at Constitution and Seventh Avenues, we'll check back with you.

Of course, we invite you to stay with us throughout the day as the nation says farewell to Senator Ted Kennedy. Our live coverage of Senator Kennedy's funeral procession to Arlington National Cemetery resumes at 4:00 eastern time.

Right now live pictures of the eternal flame which marks the burial place for John F. Kennedy. It will only be about 90 feet away or so which will be the final resting place for Senator Ted Kennedy.

And, of course, the burial service, we'll carry that, as much of it as we can. That is set to beginning at 5:00 eastern time from Arlington.

And you can see the HBO documentary, "Teddy in his Own Words," thas tonight at 8:00 eastern on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: As the nation remembers Ted Kennedy, there's other news we're also following.

This breaking news out of southeastern Georgia -- authorities there tell us seven people have been found dead in a mobile home near the town of Brunswick.

The police chief there says authorities discovered the victims while responding to a 911 call earlier this morning. Two people were also injured, and they have been taken to a hospital.

At this point a motive for the killings still unknown. We're tracking this story and we'll have much more information as it becomes available.

And surf's up as tropical depression Danny winds down. It's heading north and posing less of a threat as it weakens in cooler waters. But strong waves and possible rip currents are forecast from the Carolinas to the New England coast with plenty of rain in between.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: Some other news we're following -- the man charged with kidnapping a girl nearly two decades ago and fathering two children with her is being investigated for other crimes.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live from Antioch, California. So police searched Phillip Garrido's property yesterday for evidence. What did they find or what are they revealing?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, very tight-lipped about exactly what's being found inside the Garrido's property, but authorities are back here on this Saturday.

In fact, I was told yesterday by one of the officers that they will probably be here throughout the weekend, asking them how long this would take, the search of the property, and there are various agencies that are in here.

In fact, a couple of trailers have been pulled up to the home, one from a nearby police department from the town of Pittsburg, California. We understand they're executing search warrants in relation to Garrido's possible connection to murders that took place in that nearby town back in the 1990s. So they continue to work here.

Antioch police in the city that we're in here in California, they have also pulled up a trailer into the driveway of the home, and from what we've been able to see from the street here this morning is authorities going through that backyard.

Obviously, that is going to be a key place as authorities here begin to piece together what has transpired here over the last 18 years.

This story started to unravel on Wednesday when a couple of police officers at the nearby University of California at Berkeley were approached by Garrido and his two daughters, the two daughters authorities say he has fathered with Jaycee Dugard.

And they say that those officers were the ones that really started unraveling this entire mystery as they described a scene that was very bizarre when Garrido showed up with these two young girls. And they said from the beginning something wasn't right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLISON JACOBS, U.S. BERKELEY POLICE DEPARTMENT: When I came in contact with them, something went off. It's like something is up with these kids. You really couldn't pinpoint it.

It was like something you would, you know, see in a movie or on TV or something like that, where these kids were just so robotic and just not like acting how normal 11 and 15, 14-year-olds would act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Fredricka, Phillip Garrido and Nancy Garrido are being in jail without bond. They have had almost 30 criminal charges filed against them including kidnapping and rape. They are being held without bond, and authorities here, as I have mentioned, continue to look through what is right now considered to be a crime scene -- Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Ed Lavandera, thanks so much from Antioch, California. I appreciate that.

In a moment we will resume the remembrances of Senator Ted Kennedy. We're going to be joined by Roger Wilkins, a well-known professor, author, as well as journalist. And we'll talk about that special something that Senator Ted Kennedy had that so many have spoken about, how he had been so in touch, so conscientious of the struggle of the common man.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: On this day of remembrance, just a few hours from his final resting place here in the nation's capital. Senator Ted Kennedy helped change the country from his Senate seat, especially in the area of civil rights. The cause became his passion.

Tom Foreman explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amid the fiery 1960s as civil rights battles raged, President John Kennedy sought passage of a landmark bill to ban discrimination.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The heart of the question is, whether all Americans ought to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities.

FOREMAN: And when he was assassinated, Ted Kennedy already filling his older brother's Senate seat, filled his shoes too, helping to push the legislation through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making a final stop on his tour of Ireland, Senator Edward Kennedy.

FOREMAN: The fight to protect immigrants, minorities, and so many others dominated Ted Kennedy's resume as he argued for voting rights, bilingual education, an end to discrimination over religion or sexual identity.

He backed the Americans with Disabilities Act, and even as his presidential bid of 1980 fell, at the convention Kennedy spoke for the Equal Rights Amendment.

KENNEDY: And for the recognition at long last that our nation was made up of founding mothers as well as founding fathers.

(APPLAUSE)

FOREMAN: Civil rights pioneer John Lewis, now a Georgia congressman, stood by Kennedy in many battles.

REP. JOHN LEWIS, (D) GEORGIA: And I think it gave us a great deal more courage to stand up and to fight when we knew that we had a voice in Washington. He never gave up. He never gave in. He never gave out. He kept the faith.

FOREMAN (on camera): The senator pulled no punches when he felt civil rights might be in danger, notably when he opposed conservative Robert Bork's nomination to the Supreme Court in 1987.

KENNEDY: In Robert Bork's America there is no room at the inn for blacks and no place in the Constitution for women. And in our America there should be no seat on the Supreme Court for Robert Bork.

FOREMAN: For many it is fitting that Kennedy became an early supporter of Barack Obama, the first black president.

Reaching out to all the groups he championed in the past to carry his civil rights legacy to the future.

KENNEDY: The hope rises again and the dream lives on.

FOREMAN: Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: Among those who have studied, admired, really looked into and delved into the Kennedy legacy and Ted Kennedy's as well, Roger Wilkins. He's a journalist. He's a lawyer, social activist, author of the 1982 autobiography "A Man's Life," and the publisher of the NAACP magazine "The Crisis." It's good to see you.

ROGER WILKINS, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, 1966 TO 1969: It's nice to see you. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: This is an incredible day because it is a day that we have heard so many who have admired Ted Kennedy talk about the mourning. At the same time, it's the celebration of his life.

Give me your impressions of all that has taken place over the last three days as the nation says goodbye to Senator Kennedy.

WILKINS: First thing I should admit is that the first time I was aware of him, I took a pillow in my mother's living room and threw it at the TV. I did not...

WHITFIELD: You were not happy.

WILKINS: I did not want John Kennedy to be the Democratic candidate in 1960 because I didn't think he knew anything about race, and Hubert Humphrey was the black ideal. He was the guy who had stood up for us.

At the convention some young kid, Ted Kennedy, was asked to give the vote from the western part of the country, or from Wyoming, and he said, "Mr. President," or "Mr. Chairman, Wyoming delivers 10 votes to President -- Senator Kennedy" and that gave him the nomination.

I changed my views over time.

WHITFIELD: Interesting, what made you change your views? What was the moment where you said this is a complex man, yes, but, at the same time, a very conscientious one?

WILKINS: Well, first of all, he wasn't as young as I thought he was. And he was, in fact, four or five weeks older than I.

WHITFIELD: So you're saying he brought some sort of life experience. He was mature beyond his years.

WILKINS: And then he had his problems, and they were severe problems, and they were personal problems, and there was a divorce involved. And there was a botched presidential run in '80. And then he gathered himself.

WHITFIELD: But that might have been the opening? You call it a botched -- you know, the presidential candidacy, but at the same time it may have been a magnificent turning point for him, because perhaps some have seen this as almost a lifting of a burden, that he can't be his two older brothers.

And now the slate was clean for whatever he wanted to do with his legislative life or public life. Did you see it that way?

WILKINS: Well, what I saw was a man who grew in depth, whatever the reasons were. Partly it had to be the connection to the human pain of losing his brothers as he did. But the other thing was that he really learned from human connections, and he really learned from the human beings who he encountered or who came to him or who had stories.

WHITFIELD: Human connections like with his sister Rose in her battles with disabilities. Even his son today, Teddy Kennedy, talked about having lost the use of his leg and how his dad connected with him, and there was a certain empathy that actually helped him carry on. And he told him, you know, there's nothing that you can't do, and I'm going to be with you every step of the way.

WILKINS: Right. And just think, he had his kids, he had Jack's kids, he had Bobby's kids, and they all looked at daddy or Uncle Teddy to...

WHITFIELD: At a very young age, he was in his 30s.

WILKINS: Right, and to bind it all up and make it better. And, you know, I don't know how -- that had to have affected him in a powerful way.

But I'll tell you when I would talk to him about race and issues, he didn't talk like some of these people, as if blacks, Hispanics, poor people were of "them." It was always for him "we."

WHITFIELD: Where do you suppose that came from? How could he be so connected, how was he so in touch and particularly at a time when there were major divisions across the country, and unless you were living and experiencing something, you really didn't know what it was to be in someone else's shoes, but he legislated as if he knew?

WILKINS: There are people who can see things that aren't in their own personal experience but they can see it in their ability to empathize -- I hate to offend all those people who hated Sotomayor -- but empathize and understand in a deep human way.

There's somebody on television today who said he came to see Kennedy. His kid had been killed in Iraq. There was not enough body armor and the trucks were not armored. And Kennedy took it up. He understood it. He heard it. He didn't have to have a committee meeting about it. He felt in his gut and then he acted.

WHITFIELD: Did you see part of the legacy of the Kennedy family, not just Teddy Kennedy, as teaching America something about that empathy or teaching America about being conscientious not just by the spoken word, but a family that raised its children to say public service is important, volunteerism is important, doing something for someone else is important.

Did America, or is America learning a lesson from them directly on that? WILKINS: Well, I think so, and I think that these people -- I used to -- I worked for President Kennedy and I knew Attorney General Kennedy and I was critical of them back in the '60s.

And President Kennedy responded to my criticisms to a degree that surprised me and pleased me. Attorney General Kennedy was quite angry at the criticisms. But ultimately we solved that, too.

And the thing is that they did learn. All the Kennedys learned, and all the Kennedys, at least the ones I knew, learned and they had such tragedy in their own lives that they knew what human pain was like.

The other thing is that, what they said, Joe and Rose Kennedy, said -- you are privileged, you are rich, and you're not supposed to sit around and counting your money and be on the ski slopes. You're supposed to contribute to the society. And I think they learned it.

WHITFIELD: The final resting place, Arlington National Cemetery, now bringing these brothers back together again.

How do you summarize this? What do you suppose this symbolizes for this family, for this nation in mourning? And live pictures right now of the eternal flame where JFK is buried. Ted Kennedy will be placed just a few feet away.

WILKINS: It's a place where I go to cry. If you go to John Kennedy's burial place and it's got not only the flame but it's got Mrs. Kennedy, it's got two babies. And then you have all this extraordinary language that he used to move the country.

And then you move over to Bob's place, and it's very much simpler. It's a white cross, but also engraved with brilliant, humane, touching words about getting rid of poverty, getting rid of discrimination, making sure that all Americans have a decent shot at a decent life.

When you go -- I have gone there often. When I go from John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, I'm a mess, the tears are flowing. Well, now, I don't know -- I know that I'm going to go, of course.

WHITFIELD: It will be tough for a lot of people. It's still one of the most visited places, landmarks here in the Washington, D.C., area.

Roger Wilkins, thank you so much for your time.

WILKINS: Nice to see you.

WHITFIELD: It's nice to see you in person, and helping all of us remember so many different facets of Senator Ted Kennedy. Appreciate it.

WILKINS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well, Ted Kennedy, brother, senator, failed presidential hopeful, political icon. So many different ways and labels in which to give to Senator Ted Kennedy.

Thomas Whalen is a historian at Boston University. He's the author of "A Higher Purpose: Profiles in Presidential Courage." Mr. Whalen joins us now from Boston.

So let's look at a starting point. Let's talk about that presidential hopeful that he was for a moment, and then it was failed. But did he see it as a failure or did he see it as bringing some relief in part?

THOMAS WHALEN, HISTORIAN: I think it was a tremendous burden lifted off his shoulders. No longer now would he have to carry that presidential standard. He would leave it to others.

But, ironically enough, that 1980 presidential run more or less defined what the next three decades of his life would be about politically, because by taking on the incumbent Democratic president, Jimmy Carter, in that fight, he made it possible for Ronald Reagan to become president.

And I am convinced that had Jimmy Carter not spent all that money and devoted all those political resources to fend off Kennedy's challenge, that Jimmy Carter probably would have been reelected, and we would not have the Reagan revolution and the conservative ascendency.

And ironically Ted Kennedy spent the last three decades of his life fighting the very thing politically he helped create, a kind of Frankenstein monster from his perspective.

WHITFIELD: He worked exhaustively, but at the same time won a lot of respect, did he not? Even though he served as a senator under ten U.S. presidents, he found a way in which to kind of bridge the gap, cross the aisle, even if he didn't necessarily agree with a particular administration.

WHALEN: Right.

And as Ted said once, it's all about getting things done, period. And he realized that really having half a loaf is better than having no loaf at all. And if you can get 60 percent of a bill, well, take it, because no one is going to get 100 percent.

I think that's what distinguishes him from the extremists on both the left and the right. They're very pure. They don't want to compromise. Ted was always willing to compromise.

WHITFIELD: Did he in part become that astute as it pertains to how to get the White House, or how to find some leverage when working with the White House, because his brother was president?

Did he use that to his advantage? Did he come with sort of an unfair advantage compared to other senators who tried to make things happen at the White House from Capitol Hill?

WHALEN: Well, it certainly didn't hurt and, of course, when the Democrats were out of power in the oval office, they'd always refer to Kennedy and his office as the government in exile. And I don't think that's far from the truth.

WHITFIELD: When you hear people talk today, and really over the course of the last few days, Senator Orrin Hatch talk about how he went to Capitol Hill, saying I'm going to fight this guy, but come to find out they become great friends.

He even wrote a song, Senator Hatch explained last night, a song that he wrote for Vicki and Ted Kennedy, and how Senator John McCain also became great friends with Senator Ted Kennedy.

What's the lesson that perhaps others on Capitol Hill might learn from hearing about these beautiful, humorous stories from people who are on the other side of the aisle?

WHALEN: Well, to put it bluntly, we are not Democrats, we are not Republicans. We are all Americans.

WHITFIELD: But do you think in the days to come, weeks to come after this mourning period, that, especially on Capitol Hill, people will go back to their old ways, or will they be thinking about the message, this living example of senator Ted Kennedy, of working both sides of the aisle, and thinking about him particularly as it pertains to this health care reform legislation which he made the centerpiece of his life in his latter months -- in the latter months of his life?

WHALEN: Well, I, unfortunately, think it's going to go back to business as usual on Capitol Hill here. And, you know, I don't think it's going to be a similar situation to when his brother, John F. Kennedy died in 1963, because his death helped spur the passage of the landmark civil rights act of 1964.

You just don't see that in this current, fervid partisan atmosphere on Capitol Hill. And there's, frankly, no one there, on either Democratic or Republican sides, to make an attempt to make that bridge to the other side.

WHITFIELD: Thomas Whalen, thanks so much for your reflection on Senator Ted Kennedy and his legacy. Appreciate that.

WHALEN: My pleasure.

WHITFIELD: Other pieces of legislation Senator Ted Kennedy helped make into law impacting the way all of us live in America today. Our legal guys join me on this day of remembrance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: He was called "the liberal lion of the Senate," but Ted Kennedy's power and privilege came with a purpose. His nephew Robert Kennedy, Jr. talked about how the senator wanted to be remembered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROBERT KENNEDY, JR. TED KENNEDY'S NEPHEW: He really thought that his mission was to help America live up to its ideals, to perfect the union, to make us an exemplary nation that he really believed we ought to be and that our history dictated, a paradigm of democracy and justice, and to persuade Americans that we all have to be heroic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well, it's so hard for a lot of family members to talk about Senator Ted Kennedy and his passing. But at the same time, we've heard a lot of humor, we've heard a lot of people talk about the legacy, the legacy that includes an incredible amount of legislation in which senator Ted Kennedy had his fingers on.

Let's turn to our legal guys right now, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor and Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor. Good to see you both, gentlemen.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fred.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about this indelible mark that was made very quickly. We are talking about a senator who went into office in 1962 and he wasted no time. Civil rights act two years later, Avery. Who would know he would leave such a lasting impression, and that would really be just the beginning?

FRIEDMAN: You ask some brilliant questions of Roger Wilkins on what motivated him. I think the answer is suffering.

But more importantly, the answer was legislation that protected minorities who were disenfranchised, women who couldn't get promotions or jobs. Those groups least likely to succeed in a society that was not Democratic.

There is, as president Obama said in the eulogy today, the greatest legislator of our times, every major 20th century and 21st century civil rights law was shepherded by Ted Kennedy.

WHITFIELD: Richard, your impressions here, because we're talking about someone who over 47 years has had his hands directly involved with shaping law.

And I'm sure there are many times whether you would be in the courtroom or whether you're arguing with Avery with me on the air here, you're talking about upholding laws and legislation, enforcing them, many of which Senator Kennedy was involved in.

HERMAN: His footprint on the legal community will be his lasting legacy, Fred.

I'm still wiping my eyes from Teddy Jr.'s speech today. What a remarkable performance he gave. His father would have been very proud of him. Whatever side you fall on, whatever politics you ascribe to, 47 years, Fred, of dedication to this country and laying the footprint to cross party lines, the blueprint to work hand in hand with senators like Orrin Hatch and John McCain, to gain their respect and their trust to pass legislation for the benefit of our country.

I mean, he's had clouds that have followed him through his life, no question about it. But we talk about redemption today, and today is a day to celebrate the voting rights, civil rights, like Avery said, Americans with disabilities, immigration policies. It goes on and on. It's endless, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes -- go ahead.

FRIEDMAN: The difficult part of measuring it, Fredricka, is that there are literally millions of Americans who have used the laws that Teddy Kennedy was involved in legislating.

In fact, the most dramatic was in 1968 after they murdered Dr. King, it was Teddy Kennedy that literally shepherded the legislation through, hand carried it to the White House one week after the murder, to outlaw housing bias and lending bias.

There has never been and never will be another legislator like that.

WHITFIELD: And even working with what was supposed to be adversaries from President Nixon to even President Reagan, and looking out for the so-called little people, trying to make sure things were pushed through.

Let's talk about children's issues and how Senator Kennedy was very conscientious of making sure that young people, if not get health care, then get the kind of benefits that should come by way of education, working with George W. Bush with No Child Left Behind.

He really did leave a lasting legacy and leave a huge impression for senators to come up behind him to say, wait a minute, this is perhaps a model in which to follow -- Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. I mean, the fact is that he was one of those legislators, while a polarizing lightning rod, at the same time was so charming.

And I guess that's the only way you can explain it, where you can deal with Orrin Hatch or Chuck Grassley and get things done like No Child Left Behind, despite the fact that many of his colleagues in the Democratic Party didn't like it.

So in terms of effectiveness, whether it was the charm, the brilliance, the combination, there will never be another like Teddy.

HERMAN: And, Fred, we learn from the resiliency of this guy. I mean, at 36 years old he saw his older brother die in armed service for the country. He saw his two brothers slaughtered at the hands of crazy people. And here he was, he became the patriarch of this dynasty at 36 years of age. He could have easily walked away, shunned public service, and lived on with his life like President Obama said today.

But he did not. He continued the fight. The fight goes on. You look at the children walking into the services today. You can tell they're Kennedys. Just look at the faces and you can see that.

And I was touched -- I saw the American flag over his coffin, and aside from the servicemen serving our country, if anyone deserves a flag over theirs, it's this man right here.

WHITFIELD: And we talk about the laws enacted and the bills that he had his fingerprints on. Yes, there may have been 2,500 bills that he helped craft, 550 that were actually enacted, but there were also defeats, too. We can't make it sound like everything he had his hands on actually worked.

There were defeats, and that even included legislation he tried to craft with Senator John McCain about immigration to, yes, make borders tougher or reinforce them, but at the same time create a better path for immigrants to become citizens. What happens in defeat?

FRIEDMAN: The same thing in the sense that he never gave up. Immigration still needs to be solved. He looked for solutions.

Remember, he was the primary proponent of the Equal Rights Amendment, which wound up going nowhere, but he wanted to ensure that women had equal rights in every aspect of American life.

So while he suffered those defeats, if you really put the record on balance, Fredricka, this guy was untouchable. When it came to human rights, civil rights, certainly health care, Teddy Kennedy was absolutely untouchable.

HERMAN: And the bipartisan respect, Fred, you saw President Clinton there, Secretary Clinton. You saw Jimmy Carter, who I don't think he said two words to since the '80 election. You saw President Bush there with his wife. I'm sure his father, Bush 41, would have been there. I'm sure something prevented him from coming.

But he had respect from Republicans and Democrats alone. You're right, he laid that framework to work bipartisan to achieve success for this country. That's who he was working for, this country, not for himself personally.

FRIEDMAN: He didn't have to, but he did.

HERMAN: Right.

FRIEDMAN: He fought for those people who he was not, but, as Roger Wilkins said, he became one of them. And that's how he made it work.

HERMAN: And James Carville noted earlier, look what's going on today, the coverage of this man's funeral. It's like a president passed away. It's really unsurpassed.

WHITFIELD: And we're about to see that again, as if a president's funeral procession would be taking place in Washington. In just a few hours from now, Avery and Richard, we'll be seeing the body of Senator Ted Kennedy making its way from Boston, arriving in Maryland at Andrews Air Force Base, making its way through the streets of Washington, and then on to its final resting place at Arlington National Cemetery.

He will be buried something like 90 feet away or so from that eternal flame of the final resting place of John F. Kennedy, his older brother.

Thanks so much, Avery and Richard. Thanks so much for helping us reflect and understand legislation and exactly how Ted Kennedy made an impression there.

There are other ways in which to remember this as well. A former press secretary tells his personal stories of working with Ted Kennedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Today the nation remembers and pays tribute to Senator Ted Kennedy, his final resting place just a few hours away now at Arlington National Cemetery.

Meantime, our next guest once worked for Senator Kennedy as his press secretary. Bob Mann joins me now.

You were working as a press secretary between '84 and '87, but today and over the last three days taking in so much that's been said of Senator Kennedy. How are you feeling today?

BOB MANN, SENATOR KENNEDY'S FORMER PRESS SECRETARY: Once you worked for Ted Kennedy, you always worked for Ted Kennedy.

WHITFIELD: It's a big family.

MANN: It's a big family. And it's been nice to do things for Patrick and Joe and other members of the family over the years.

About 15 months ago my phone rang at 7:00 a.m. And a voice said, "Bob, Ted Kennedy," to which I said, "Yes, I'm sure." He said "Don't you teach at that college down in San Marcos where LBJ went to school?" I said, "Yes, I'm going to do Obama. I'm going to need some remarks. Show up at the airport and pick me up, and somebody will call you.

Thank you, Bob, thank you, Bob."

WHITFIELD: So his voice sounding strong, not sounding like any worry of the brain tumor that he was diagnosed with around that same time.

MANN: That was three months later. So I was lucky in being able to be around him towards the end.

And he came down, and I did not know if the young college people of today in that part of Texas would really know who Ted Kennedy was. I thought maybe 40, 50 students. But we reserved a big auditorium -- 4,000 kids.

And after he spoke they rushed the stage like he was a rock star. He said "I've got to touch them, Bob." He grabbed the back of my belt. He leaned over. I grabbed his belt. He said "Don't drop me."

And one of the things that I just sort of like to touch on even during this very serious time, and I think he would want that, is the humor of Ted Kennedy, because he often -- I would see him use humor to neutralize anger and differences.

The most dramatic example -- we had a stalker, and we had many stalkers. And most of them were harmless people who would come to the Kennedy office because they knew the Kennedys would help them, and with emotional problems.

We had a fellow who showed up several days in a row, not a big guy, very clean cut, sports jacket, maybe 35. And he would stand and lean against the wall across the hall.

Well, one day I came in about 9:00 and he was sitting in the office carving an apple with a knife, a large pocketknife.

WHITFIELD: And you should have been worried, I guess.

MANN: I should have been worried. I don't know how he got it through security. I called security. They came for him, cuffed him, arrested him, and took him away.

The next morning there he was again, not across the hall from the receptionist, but from Senator Kennedy's office door, which only opens from the inside.

I went and I said, senator, he's back, let's get security. Don't go out the door.