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Senator Ted Kennedy's Funeral Procession; Philip Garrido Kidnapping Case
Aired August 29, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CENTER: And what was his reaction?
MANN: The senator winked at me and said watch this, Bob. He walked out the door, took three long strides and Ted was about 6'3", broad shoulders. This guy was maybe 5'8". He got right in his face and said, hey, how are you? How are you? And then he left. The fellow never came back.
WHITFIELD: How interesting.
MANN: So he turned what could have been --
WHITFIELD: A frightening moment --
MANN: And he had the courage to do that and there would --
WHITFIELD: I love the way you also have described that working for him really meant it was a contact sport.
MANN: It was a contact sport.
WHITFIELD: That he put 150 percent into it and the expectation was everyone who worked with him and alongside him would have to do the same thing.
MANN: He would make great demands. He would shout and scream during the day. He would praise you but he would also very candidly let you know what he wanted. He was accustomed to the best work, at 6:00 or 7:00 or 8:00 he'd buzz me and say come in, let's have a drink. Let's talk about the day. What are we going to do tomorrow? He'd be chewing on potato chips or something else.
WHITFIELD: His humor was very disarming. Senator Orrin Hatch talked about that last night, how he went into it thinking, you know what I'm going to go after that guy, Senator Ted Kennedy, but in the end it turns out they were just best of friends.
MANN: When I left him and went to work for the Large Business Association, they said how could you work for that damn liberal Ted Kennedy, and then I brought him to a fund-raiser that they put on. By the time it was over they said Bob, how do I write a check to Senator Kennedy? He had worked them over one at a time, made them laugh, and he was just a marvelous in that respect.
There is another aspect here, too, as we talk about his passing and we saw it with the remarks today by Ted Kennedy Jr., and by Patrick Kennedy. I had not seen Ted Kennedy Jr. in a few years. He's matured. Looks a lot like a young Ted Kennedy and sounds like him. Patrick comes to Texas often. He has many friends in Texas and he usually comes to Austin. I'm going to get him into Texas State I hope next time and Patrick is a little quieter. He was the invisible kid when he was young. He couldn't go to some places because of his asthma.
WHITFIELD: Did you see something different in them today?
MANN: The torch is passing. The torch is passing. And Joe Kennedy Jr. is a marvelous person with leadership capability. The Kennedy women are stout as they have always been.
WHITFIELD: So this third generation, they are all quite accomplished in their own right. It may not necessarily be a huge political stage like what we saw in Senator Ted Kennedy or even in Bobby Kennedy or even in Jack Kennedy. However, they're all making a mark in different ways, and public service is still at the forefront, being a humanitarian, philanthropic, et cetera, but do you see this third generation --
MANN: Here is what else you see. Even when you're talking to them about a football game or some other issues, almost always in the conversation will come what is the right thing to do? What should we do? What should we have done here in Texas? There's a core that never really leaves their aura of conversation, and I look for it now when I talk to them because we can tell stories, we can toot it up, we can be very serious, but with Patrick Kennedy in particular when I've been with him and with Joe --
WHITFIELD: How do you see them effectively passing on that lesson to their kids as you saw Rose and Joe Kennedy pass on to Jack, Bobby, Joe, and Edward Kennedy and they have done it to their kids.
MANN: They have done everything as a family. I was surprised when I first went to work for Senator Kennedy and we would do a schedule meetings, before we'd do anything, before we do foreign affairs, military affairs, how long has it been since I had lunch with John Jr.? Get Patrick in here. Get Teddy Jr. in here. I need to take them to the Cape this weekend. Always do the family scheduling first. Most of us would get busy and think we're important but family suffers, but they always came first. I think from that he grew enormous strengths.
WHITFIELD: Those were immediate family members. Before I let you go I'm wondering, it seems as though he took in President Obama as yet -- as another family member, almost like a brother the way in which he helped campaign, perhaps even helped put President Obama over the top. What would be your view based on your exposure to him as a former press secretary, how often or do you even suppose Senator Kennedy picked up the phone and called President Obama while in office saying, you know what, here is my advice or this is what --
MANN: I suspect it was a daily occurrence. Senator Kennedy loves to be a mentor. He would have been a wonderful professor. He was my mentor. I think anyone who worked with him learned from him and he would go out of his way at the end of the day to touch bases and to provide counseling services and personal things, professional things. He was very much aware of your level of political sophistication and then he would demand more.
WHITFIELD: Bob Mann thanks so much. Nice meeting you and thanks for helping us to see another side of Senator Ted Kennedy as the former press secretary. Thanks so much.
America's most famous family said farewell to its patriarch today. 1,500 invited guests packed a historic Boston church at a more than two-hour funeral for Senator Ted Kennedy. You watched it live on CNN. Joining the Kennedy family were foreign dignitaries as well, political leaders, actors, and athletes. The mourners included fellow members of the Senate where Kennedy served almost half a century, hard to believe. President Obama delivered the eulogy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S: Today we say good-bye to the youngest child of Rose and Joseph Kennedy. The world will long remember their son Edward as the heir to a weighty legacy, a champion for those who had none, the soul of the Democratic Party, and the lion of the United States Senate. A man who graces nearly 1,000 laws and who penned more than 300 laws himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: As we mentioned, the senator's motorcade will take one final trip to the U.S. Capitol after leaving Boston making its way to an air force base there. The casket of Senator Ted Kennedy will be making its way to Andrews Air Force base in Maryland just outside the nation's capital, and then it will be taking through the streets of the nation's capital for a final public good-bye. CNN's Kate Bolduan is actually on Capitol Hill where the hearse will actually take a moment there correct and many of his staffers will get an opportunity to pay tribute.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly Fredricka. This is part of the final farewell for Senator Kennedy. The casket when Senator Kennedy lands at Andrews Air Force Base along with the Kennedy family, they will be motorcadding here to the capitol, right here behind me. They will be stopping right here, an opportunity for Senator Kennedy and the family to say good-bye and stop by this institution, this place that he served in for nearly half a century. We're told this will be a brief stop. Possibly, probably 15 minutes, but what you're going to see shortly, these are going to be -- these steps are going to be filled with staffers, Kennedy staffers current and former as well as congressional staffers, people who worked in the capitol all filling those stairs. It's an opportunity for these people to pay respects, to say their own good-bye to Senator Kennedy.
The program we heard is very short. A prayer led by the house chaplain, Father Daniel Coughlin, a song, we are told "America the Beautiful," and then an opportunity for the Kennedy family members to greet and thank all of these people who really are an extension of the Kennedy family. They're really the people behind the legislator, behind the man, the lion of the senate as he is called. After this brief stop they will be making, they will be continuing on Fredricka as you mentioned onto -- over to Arlington National Cemetery where Senator Kennedy will finally be laid to rest.
WHITFIELD: All right. Kate Bolduan thanks so much. As we heard from former press secretary Bob Mann here of Senator Kennedy saying once you're in the family, you're always part of the family. So Kate underscoring there a large number of people who are going to be there at the steps of the capitol to pay their final last respects.
So let's take a closer look now at the motorcade route for the Senator's final journey to Arlington National Cemetery. There we find our Tom Foreman to break it down for us. Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. Kate was talking to us from here. This is the eastern front of the U.S. Capitol; if you have been here to visit normally you approach from the other side where the mall is. This is what many people consider the backside. It's actually the front side. This is where he will meet with all his people and this is where they will sing "America the Beautiful" lead by students. And it won't be a long stop. But then they'll move on. I want to show you the route they're actually going to follow. These little dots show the way they will be traveling. They will move away from the capitol and right over here to Constitution Avenue, and then they'll start moving right down through the heart of D.C. really.
As they travel this way the mall is over here. This is the Smithsonian; the national archives will be over here. They will pass Washington Monument. The White House is over here. They're actually headed right toward the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. Before they get here, they'll turn here, go past the Lincoln Memorial, over the Potomac River which is a favorite with many of the voters and sailors here and then out here to Arlington National Cemetery, the majestic entrance area, and up towards this area, which is actually the part where the Kennedy's rest right now.
John Kennedy's grave is over in this area, a place that Ted Kennedy visited many, many times. His brother Bobby's grave is not that far away, also visited many times by the Kennedy family, and including the senator and this is where Ted Kennedy, Edward Moore Kennedy, will be laid to rest. The three brothers united at last in this hallowed ground in America. More than 300,000 people buried here from all the wars we have ever known in this country now joined by these leaders.
WHITFIELD: It really is a symbolic journey is it not through Washington going by all the landmarks that Senator Ted Kennedy can be associated with in so many different ways. You talk about the mall, of course the Capitol building, and even going over the Potomac. We know how much he loved water and that was so much a part of his life before making a final stop at Arlington National Cemetery.
FOREMAN: I think this really in many ways, Fred, is going to be the Washington equivalent of the trip yesterday in Boston where he went past all those Boston landmarks that he meant so much to and meant so much to him. In Boston he was known on the streets and he knew the streets well. Very much the same here in Washington, D.C. An awful lot of reporters and just regular citizens can tell you stories about walking near the capitol and seeing Senator Kennedy out walking his dogs or just taking a stroll. This was his town as much as Boston was, and it will be a final trip through a hometown of sorts before he reaches his resting place.
WHITFIELD: All right. Tom Foreman thanks so much. Appreciate that.
Let's talk a little more about Arlington National Cemetery. It's been public for a good part of the morning today. Some people have been streaming there to get kind of a firsthand look of the final resting place or the area of the final resting place for Senator Ted Kennedy. Soon it will be closed off. It will be private for that private ceremony involving family only for the burial of Senator Ted Kennedy. Our Jessica Yellin is there.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, the motorcade carrying Senator Kennedy will arrive here at 5:30 this evening. Senator Kennedy will be laid to rest on a site near the burial sites of his brothers John and Bobby. The superintendent of Arlington Cemetery tells us the senator visited here frequently in the years after his brothers' deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Senator Kennedy was here all the time. He came on the anniversaries of the deaths. He would come on the anniversaries of the births if he was available. He would just come. Sometimes he would announce himself. Other times we would be doing maintenance and we would find him here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Fredricka, here is a sense of what you can expect this afternoon. Senator Kennedy's coffin arrives at Andrews Air Force Base. First they'll go to the U.S. Capitol where the Kennedy staff both current and former staff and members of the public will be gathered to pay their respects. There will be a prayer there, and then the motorcade heads down Constitution Avenue. The very same route both John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy took on their trip to their final resting place here at Arlington Cemetery.
Senator Kennedy will have a military funeral, he did he serve in the army. A chaplain will lead the way to the grave site. The former archbishop of Washington will lead the private service there. There will be a gun salute and taps. After a burial a small wooden cross 2 1/2 feet will be placed at the grave site which is expected to be open tomorrow morning 8:00 tomorrow morning so members of the public can come and pay their respects.
Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Jessica Yellin thanks so much, at Arlington National Cemetery. We invite you to stay with us throughout the day as the nation says farewell to Senator Ted Kennedy. Our live coverage of Senator Kennedy's funeral procession to Arlington National Cemetery resumes at 4:00 Eastern time with the burial service at Arlington set to begin at 5:00 Eastern.
And then tonight CNN will air HBO documentary "Teddy: In his own words." His remarkable life told by Senator Ted Kennedy himself. Watch that tonight at@ 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: We'll get back to the tribute of Senator Ted Kennedy in a moment, but first other stories we're also following for you. This out of southeastern Georgia. Seven people have been found dead in a mobile home near Brunswick. The police chief there says authorities discovered the victims early this morning while responding to a 911 call. Two people were seriously injured. At this point a motive for the killings is not known. We're tracking this story and we'll have more information as it becomes available.
And California authorities are expanding their investigation of Phillip Garrido. He's accused of kidnapping Jaycee Dugard when she was just 11 years old and holding her for 18 years. Police think that he may have committed other crimes that still have not been uncovered. CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Antioch, California, with more on this. Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka. Well authorities are still here at the home of Phillip Garrido. One of the officers told me that they will probably -- the work here will probably take most of the weekend. But you see a trailer from the Antioch Police Department that's been rolled into the driveway. Another trailer from a nearby police department is also here collecting evidence. We're told in addition to the crime scene investigation that is going on with Jaycee Dugard's disappearance and her capture and captivity here for 18 years, that nearby authorities are also looking into possible connections to murders that took place in a nearby community back in the 1990s.
So all of that unfolding here as some 30 -- almost 30 criminal charges have been filed against Phillip Garrido and his wife Nancy including felony charges of kidnapping and rape. Of course, the big question is how all of this was kept a secret and hidden away from so many people in this neighborhood for 18 years, and it wasn't until on Wednesday when Phillip Garrido showed up with his two daughters that he's allegedly fathered with Jaycee Dugard, showed up at the nearby campus of the University of California at Berkeley where officers there had an interaction with him that led to the unraveling of this mystery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLISON JACOBS, U.S. BERKELEY POLICE DEPT: When I came in contact with him, just something went off. It's like something is up with these kids. You really couldn't pinpoint it. It was like something that you would, you know, see in a movie or on TV or something like that where these kids were just so robotic and just not like acting how normal 11 and 15, 14-year-olds would act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVENDERA: Fredicka, of course the question that is still front and center for so many people in this investigation is just how this young woman was kept here for 18 years, hidden away in this backyard without anyone ever really noticing or bringing it to the attention of authorities or authorities noticing anything. In fact, one of the local officials, local law enforcement agencies we were told yesterday were called, a 911 call from a neighbor here back three years ago talking of suspicious behavior and something not quite right. Authorities here acknowledge that they did come out to the scene and talked with Mr. Garrido but fell way short of investigating that call properly and perhaps they're saying this could have brought to an -- been brought to an end three years ago, but it was a missed opportunity. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Wow. And Ed I know so little of this actually makes sense, but I got to wonder, too, why would Garrido after being so secretive about this young lady, Jaycee and the two kids, then go in a very public place on the UC Berkeley campus with them and that's when investigators were able to put things together?
LAVENDERA: You know, exactly. None of it really makes sense based if you're trying to keep someone hidden why he would take a chance like this. Garrido has spoken with a local affiliate from a television station from Sacramento, and it was a rambling interview. Hard to make sense, but in parts of that interview he seemed to suggest that he was kind of ready for this to come to an end. Is that what drove him to go to the UC Berkeley campus? Really hard to make sense of exactly what he was saying and what he meant, but it almost seemed like he was ready for all of this to come to an end. Of course, you find a lot of people who don't really believe anything he has to say as well.
WHITFIELD: Very strange. In that audio tape he even rambled on saying something about sleeping with the two small children but never touching them. Very odd all the way around. All right. Thanks so much, Ed, and we know this story will get even more complex as the days arrive. Thanks so much.
Meantime, something else we're following for you, pretty nasty weather out there. Steady cold rain at the Boston funeral of Senator Ted Kennedy triggered by what was tropical storm Danny. Let's check in with meteorologist Jacqui Jeras in the CNN Hurricane Center in Atlanta. Hi again, Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey there Fredricka. Some heavy downpours have been going on across much of New England really all day long. And this is what was Danny. It's now become extra tropical, but still tropical-like moisture has been feeding into the area and that's why our rainfall totals have been so incredible. Take a look at the radar picture here now, and you can see that rain focused from Rhode Island up towards the Boston area into Portland. We'll zoom in for you, and you can see these dark oranges and these yellows indicative of maybe a good half of an inch per hour as that rain continues to come on down. This is going to be lasting really through the better part of the afternoon on into the evening. Here is some of the rainfall totals we've had thus far, Nantucket, nearly 3 inches of rain, about 2 1/2 at Peterborough. There you can see East Falmouth about 2 1/3 and then just over a 1 1/3 inches into the Boston area.
We could see those numbers doubled potentially before all is said and done. We may see some urban flooding as well as some small streams and creeks potentially going out of their banks. Here is our computer forecast of how much rainfall we're expecting. Really take note of some of those reds in there. That's a good four, maybe five inches of rainfall that we're expecting in the next 24-plus hours. So it gives you a better idea where we're expecting the heaviest of showers and thundershowers. There's a cold front that's pulling in back behind it as well, and that is going to bring in additional rainfall and then travel conditions very difficult by the airports. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Jacqui Jeras thanks so much. You talked about that driving rain in the Boston area and how nasty it's been, and now we want to take a look there out of the airport there in the Boston area. We understand that the casket of Senator Ted Kennedy has made its way to that airport at the Air Force Base. It will be flown south to Washington where it will arrive at the Andrews Air Force Base and then the casket loaded onto a hearse and followed by a long procession of vehicles involving family members and other loved ones making its way through the streets of downtown Washington, down Constitution Avenue, past the Washington mall, past a number of landmarks in Washington before making its way across the Memorial Bridge across the Potomac and onto the Arlington National Cemetery for his final resting place which will be the Arlington National Cemetery just a few feet away from where his brothers, Bobby Kennedy as well as John F. Kennedy, are also laying to rest.
Our Roland Martin has been part of our ongoing coverage throughout the day. He's with us right now, and so Roland give me an idea, there have been so many interesting emotions that have been shared with the viewing public throughout the day most of which has been very humorous. People have talked about how he made such an impression on them in a personal way and at the same time making a huge impression on how to get the business done in Washington from Capitol Hill. What were your impressions?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think when someone passes and they're 77 years old, there's so many things they accomplished over a period of time, and so that is certainly what Senator Ted Kennedy was able to do. But what is interesting about last night and also today, we got a better understanding about Ted Kennedy, the human being. So a lot of people would think that, hey, just focus on what he was able to accomplish in terms of the U.S. Senate, but it really was the things that he loved.
It was about faith, it was about family, it was about friends, and so all of those things really jumped out when you listened to those stories, and I think what really impressed me is when Ted Kennedy Jr. spoke and talked about his dad taking him up that hill and saying, no, you can do this and I believe in you and I will be with you every step of the way. I think the take away is you can fight through anything, you can persevere, and you can succeed if you never stop trying.
WHITFIELD: And people certainly then get a better understanding of why he was able to do that on Capitol Hill while trying to push legislation through. He practiced that at home and we heard that from younger Ted Kennedy.
MARTIN: Right, and that's why last night when Senator John McCain said when he said that Ted Kennedy took the long view and that is he understood that things take time, but you have to begin to put certain pieces in place, people in place for these things to happen. That is a learning lesson for many of us who want to rush into certain things and not understand that there's such a thing as in due time. So it's not always about rushing into something. So it really speaks to that as well.
WHITFIELD: And that's a perfect segue into exactly what Patrick Kennedy was talking about in due time. There's the plane now taking off, on board the casket of Senator Ted Kennedy, leaving Boston making its way to Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland just outside the nation's capital as we continue to take this live look. A perfect segue into the words of Patrick Kennedy. You talk about patience, John McCain saying you have to sometimes take the long way. Patrick Kennedy saying he questioned his father, why in the world are we practicing this sailing at these odd hours when everybody else is out there at another hour, and he joked and talked about because they're better than us and because we have to work a little harder in which to be able to compete.
MARTIN: A lot of people don't understand. I think of a similar story when some Stanford football players were coming back from a football game and there was a guy on the golf driving range, it's raining, it's cold, it's down pouring, and they say who is that? They say that's Tiger Woods. He was getting ready for the British Open. And so you prepare for things in a different way, and so when you hear the stories of how Kennedy was able to pass certain bills, it was because he outsmarted people, because he read, because he studied, because he worked harder, and, look, it was well-known he had the sharpest staff out of anyone on Capitol Hill.
They were absolutely the best, and it goes to it as well. Again, you begin to say how do you continue someone's legacy, how do you emulate someone? I think that's a good way, to say, look, you work hard and you outsmart, you outwork, you out hustle the next person if you want to be the best, and so now that he's passed away when you look at his legacy there was no doubt he was the most influential United States Senator in the second half of the 20th century and some say possibly in the history of the U.S. Senate. That's saying a whole lot for the folks who serve in that illustrious body.
WHITFIELD: We're going to talk a lot more about that just as we were looking at those fun images of he and Vicki taking a walk with their dogs, Sunny and Splash, something they enjoyed doing as long as he was able to do so. Our Frank Sesno will also be with us to join in on the conversation here as we look back at the life and legacy of Senator Ted Kennedy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Our continuing coverage as we say good-bye, the nation says good-bye to Senator Ted Kennedy. The burial at Arlington Cemetery will begin at the top of the hour, at least our coverage will. His plane with his casket onboard is en route now from Boston to the Maryland area of Andrews Air Force base just outside the nation's capital, and then a procession will be leading through the city. His casket will actually take a stop at the U.S. Capitol for a last good-bye from some of his staffers.
Well, earlier today at a mass in Boston, there were a number of people, including his own children and the senator's namesake, Ted Kennedy, who took to the microphone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARD KENNEDY, JR., SEN KENNEDY'S SON: I I love you, dad. I always will. And I miss you already.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Ted Kennedy, Jr. spoke as did Patrick Kennedy, as well. So, the Senator not only one of Washington's most effective lawmakers, he was a great communicator. Almost every agrees on that. I'm joined by CNN political analyst, Roland Martin and former CNN Washington bureau chief, Frank Sesno, who is the director of the School of Media and Public Affairs at George Washington University.
Good to see you, as well.
All right, part of this discussion, you know, Roland, right before the break we talked about the political fight that was in Senator Ted Kennedy, always a fighter. At the same time not only did he have a little grit and gristle in trying to push leg legislation through, but he had a lot of charm and that bode well in his favor, didn't it?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Again, I mean, you cannot get anything passed in politics if you don't understand that sometimes you have to use honey, sometimes you have to use vinegar, sometimes you have to cajole some people, sometimes you got to beat son folks upside their head.
I think one of the other things that's important when you listen to some of the people talk about he was a man of his word, he would even hold members of his own Democratic caucus accountable if they gave their word, then they tried to go back on their word. That is vital in politics. Also think it's vital in life when somebody says a man's word is his bond.
WHITFIELD: A lot of people wanted a minute, a moment with Senator Ted Kennedy, if you were a lawmaker, if you were a lobbyist, and if you were a reporter as well, and Frank Sesno, as a cub reporter, you had that experience, and you recognize this is going to be tough to try to get a little time with Senator Ted Kennedy, but when it did happen, what was that like for you?
FRANK SESNO, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Well, first of all, as a cub reporter, I was mentioning to you before I went on that my very first assignment when I came to Washington as a reporter in my very early 20s, really early 20s, but 30 years ago, was covering a Ted Kennedy event. It was mobbed, it was a Kennedy, and it was utterly intimidating, but he was also in the weeds in this news conference of legislation at the time. What people don't realize is that unlike a lot of senators and a lot of politicians of this town, Ted Kennedy was not an easy book, he was not an easy person to get to agree to do an interview, agree to do a show. His press people were very strategic with how he was exposed to the public and put in front of a microphone.
WHITFIELD: Which is a business surprising, is it not? Because it seemed as though Americans felt like they really did get to know him because of him whether he be in the chamber or maybe (INAUDIBLE) and he's been around.
SESNO: And that booming voice and classic accent is something that sort of reverberated. You know, it's often said that leadership, one of the pillars of leadership is to have a vision, to be able to articulate it, and then to repeat it again and again and again. Kennedy did all those things, but on top of that things like the timbre of his voice and the way he used words and the way he could boom out in the chamber or pound the podium...
WHITFIELD: He knew that and he used it.
SESNO: He knew it and used it, it was part of his strategic weapon, really, of confronting enemies and embracing allies.
MARTIN: But I also I think we have to remember that Ted Kennedy was a celebrity senator. I don't want to just demean that word, but what I mean by that is, he was one of the most well-known politicians in the country. We're often heard people talk about, like today's funeral was more like a state funeral for a president as opposed to a U.S. senator.
So when people try to understand how some Americans identify with him. This was a family that was on the political pages, the editorial pages, celebrity pages, entertainment pages, lifestyle, travel, I mean, you name it.
SE SESNO SO: But that's really the point, Roland. I mean, it's so interesting because you interview people all the time who are celebrities, but they may not be very effective communicators.
MARTIN: Right.
SESNO: People who are great communicators, but they're not the biggest name on the block. And he had this mystique plus this capacity to boom across the country, around the world.
WHITFIELD: But, when do you think that happened? Because, initially he seemed like the reluctant senator. I mean, he was barely even 30 when the opportunity came about, but at some point he said, you know what? I can be conscientious of what the Kennedy name brings, the power it can uphold, and what I can actually do with this. At what point in his career do you suppose -- I mean, we're talking 47 years almost in public office, but it didn't come naturally right away where he said I can use my influence.
SESNO: That's right. I heard David Gergen talking about all the turning points in his life from the assassinations of his brothers to the Mary Jo Kopechne thing to the William Kennedy Smith trial where he confronted, very publicly, his own philandering and foibles and had to confront that.
But, let's not get too carried away, here, because not all the rhetoric was soaring and idealistic. He could do that. His famous "The Dream Shall Never Die" speech at the 1980 convention was incredible and the cadence as he told his followers to hang on, was remarkable. But his rhetoric to defeat Robert Bork in the Senate bordered on not just the hyperbolic, but the irresponsible. He said, "Robert Bork's America is a land in which women would be forced in back alley abortions, blacks would sit a segregated lunch counters, road police could break down citizens' doors at midnight..."
WHITFIELD: But, did we ever hear him say he regretted that?
SESNO: No, but what I'm saying is...
WHITFIELD: But, it did shape the way judicial nominations...
SESNO: It did, and it was as rhetoric, it was exceptionally effective.
MARTIN: Also want to make this point. I talked to Senator Edward Brook, the first African-American elected to the Senate since reconstruction and he was the junior Senator from Massachusetts in the late '60s, serving alongside Kennedy. One of the things that he said, was that, he said that Kennedy always had the power and the influence, but, look, he was young. He said but the reality is he matured over his life, nut also, he said, he really came into his own after he lost the Democratic nomination in 1980 when he decided, you know what, it's not in the cards for me, now I can focus on being the best Senator I can.
I think the take away from this is no matter what position you're in, you can make a difference. So, although he was not in the White House, if you look at the kind of bills that he pushed through, he had impact. Donna Brarazile told me the other day, she said, Roland, we could always count on Ted Kennedy to carry our issues forward. The problem now is who do we look to?
If you were African-American, if you were disabled, if you were gay, if you were downtrodden, if you were ignored, you had a champion in him and could you always count on him. Now the question is, who fills that gap and that's where we get to, frankly, wait to see what happens, there. There's a huge gap right now.
WHITFIELD: Do you wonder about that? Who is next? Do you think it's a given or do you think it's going to be an incredible search?
SESNO: Well, let's establish that because Ted Kennedy was the flawed prince of Camelot, had the mystique, all the things that Roland and others have talked about, there's not going to be another Ted Kennedy. That's not possible. Will there be a legislator who is effective legislator and who wants to compromise and believe that legislation is the art of the possible? Yes, but that degree of effectiveness is not easily come by. I mean, seniority matters, stature matters...
MARTIN: Will they have the heft -- there you go.
SESNO: That's right and you can mess with people and you can joke with people and you got the history. Let's not forget that two of his proudest achievements were actually done with the two Bush presidents: The Americans with Disabilities Act and No Child Left Behind.
MARTIN: Absolutely.
SESNO: Controversial as they may have been, that was Ted Kennedy at the table with very Republican presidents.
WHITFIELD: Frank and Roland, thanks so much. Gentlemen, appreciate your time and your insight on this.
SESNO: Thank you.
MARTIN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Let's talk a little more about all that's taking place in Washington as it prepares for Senator Ted Kennedy's plane, his hearse to arrive at Andrews Air Force Base. It's in flight right now just leaving Boston moments ago and you're hearing some music and you're also seeing a crowd of people. This is the steps of the capitol building -- of the Senate building, actually. A number of people, former and current staffers of Senator Ted Kennedy are there. They're waiting. The procession, the motorcade that will once it arrives at Andrews Air Force Base will make its way through the nation's capitol, it will for about 15 minutes, as we heard from Kate Bolduan, from the steps of the capitol -- make a stop there, and there will be tributes, there will be a moment for staffers, current and past, to say their good-byes to Senator Ted Kennedy. Then it makes its way through Washington and then over the Memorial Bridge, over the Potomac and then to the final resting place of the Arlington National Cemetery where our coverage will also be taking place later on this afternoon. Much more, straight ahead.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He believed in health care for all, and that was his main focus, and he argued strenuously about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was always an advocate of all the Black movement, and he was one of those people who was able to cross boundaries.
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WHITFIELD: This was the third day of public farewells for Senator Ted Kennedy, but today was very different. Nearly 1,500 friends and family and dignitaries filled a Catholic church in Boston for a memorial service earlier today, among them former presidents, vice presidents, and colleagues. President Barack Obama delivered the eulogy.
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BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Today we say good-bye to the youngest child of Rose and Joseph Kennedy. The world will long rember their son, Edward, as the heir to a weighty legacy. A champion for those who had none, the soul of the Democratic Party, and the lion of the United States Senate, a man who graces nearly 1,000 laws and who penned more than 300 laws himself.
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WHITFIELD: The burial at Arlington National Cemetery will be private, but before it was closed off earlier today, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr was allowed on the grounds to see exactly where Senator Kennedy will be buried.
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BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The final resting place for Senator Edward Kennedy will be by these trees on the sloping green hill close to the graves of his brothers John and Robert. Arlington superintendent, Jack Metzler, showed us the site.
(on camera): The senator will be laid to rest here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes he will be.
STARR: And his family will...
JOHN METZLER, ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY: His family will be here and we understand approximately 200 people will attend the service. It will be a closed funeral, invited guests only. Senator Kennedy will receive military honors.
STARR (voice-over): It was just in the last few weeks that this site was selected. It's an area Senator Edward Kennedy knew well.
METZLER: Senator Kennedy was here all the time. He came on the anniversaries of the deaths, he would come on the anniversaries of the births, if he was available. He would just come. Sometimes he would announce himself. Other times we would just be up here doing maintenance and we would find him up here. If he came to funerals of one of the soldiers from his state, he'd also, before he left the cemetery, always stop and have a prayer or a quiet visit here.
Sometimes he would spend five minutes -- other times he would talk to the people until they quit talking to him. He'd spend half hour, 45 minutes just talking to people and visiting with his brothers.
STARR: President Kennedy visited Arlington just a few days before he was assassinated in November, 1963. From the top of the hill, he looked out over this vista of the nation's capital and said it was so beautiful he could stay here forever. Now, all three Kennedy brothers will be reunited on this Arlington hillside.
Barbara Starr, CNN, Arlington National Cemetery.
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WHITFIELD: And our Jessica Yellin is there at Arlington National Cemetery. She'll join us right after this.
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WHITFIELD: In this remembrance of Senator Teddy Kennedy, the plane carrying the senator's casket is expected shortly in Washington, D.C., here. A motorcade will take him past the U.S. Capitol before heading to Arlington National Cemetery and that's where he will be buried.
Our Jessica Yellin is at the cemetery where security already getting very tight.
No members of the public anywhere nearby now, right?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, the security is tight here, but members of the public have gathered outside the security cordon already lined up, prepared to see the motorcade when it comes by about an hour and a half from now.
As you say, they cannot go to the burial site, but clearly they want to be here to this see moment for themselves.
Now, senator Kennedy's burial will be the only one happening at Arlington today. The cemetery considers a Saturday burial an honor, the last time they did a burial on Saturday was for the victims of 9/11.
Let me tell you a little bit about what you can expect when he does arrive. The hearse will leave that motorcade and it will be carried out by what's called a casket team. Eight individuals representing all the branches of the military, they will be led to the burial site by the chaplin here at article Arlington and by the archbishop emeritus of Washington, D.C., Archbishop McCormick. The family will follow behind.
Senator Kennedy is given all the honors appropriate for his rank in the service. He did serve in the Army, that's why he's allowed to be buried her at Arlington National Cemetery, a cemetery where there are 330,000 other members of the services and honored Americans also buried here.
Now, during the service will there be a presentation of the flag, which is draping the coffin to the senator's widow, there will be an honor guard, a rifle salute to Senator Kennedy and an Army bugler will play Taps.
After the service, a 2-1/2 foot white cross will be placed on the grave site along with a marker with his full name, very simple and the date of his birth and of his death.
The site is about, as we've said, about 200 feet from his brother, John F. Kennedy's, about 100 feet from the site of Bobby Kennedy's grave. But, why it's so significant is that is a site that's seared in the memories of so many Americans throughout history for what this remarkable family has contributed to this nation and the great suffering they've seen, a site that is considered apparently one of the most popular sites here at Arlington National Cemetery, four million visitors a year stop by it, we're told.
And Fredricka, although it is closed to the Obama like today, they're opening it up right away tomorrow so that members of the public can come and pay their respects to Senator Kennedy, 8:00 a.m. tomorrow, people are welcome to start coming and visiting that site.
WHITFIELD: Yeah, something tells me it will be a very popular site tomorrow, as well. Thanks very much, Jessica Yellin, there at Arlington National Cemetery.
As I mentioned before, that motorcade, the casket carrying Senator Ted Kennedy makes its way to Arlington National Cemetery. It's going to make a stop right here at the Senate building and you are looking at a live picture right now, apparently upwards of about 100 current and former staffers of Senator Ted Kennedy are gathered there.
This will be an opportunity for them to say their last good-byes, pay their last respects for about 15 minutes in which the motorcade will make a stop there and then again make its way down constitution avenue and then toward the Lincoln Memorial as well as crossing over the Memorial Bridge, over the Potomac River, before making its final stop there at Arlington National Cemetery.
Much more straight ahead as the nation remembers and honors Senator Ted Kennedy.
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WHITFIELD: Ted Kennedy was not only devoted to his family, he also loved to sail. Those two loves came together one sunny day in the twilight of his life. And we hear that from the words of Robert Kennedy, Jr.
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ROBERT KENNEDY, JR, TED KENNEDY'S NEPHEW: A week before he died, he was out on his boat and he was very sick by then and he was losing some of his ability to find words and he was still very cognizant and very, you know, able to steer his boat and to reason and understand all the conversations. But, it was sometimes during parts of day difficult for him to find the words that he was looking for.
And I had a boatload full of kids, I went by his boat, the Mya, by his sailboat and we all waved to each other and he started yodeling, which he used to did all the time, he climbed the Matterhorn when he was younger and he learned to yodel over tlo and he would sometimes sing yodeling songs to the grandchildren.
And I saw him back on the dock later that day and he grabbed my arm and he just looked at very intensely in the eye and he just started yodeling and then he said to me, "I'm sorry, it's all I got left." (END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All day, people have been remembering Senator Ted Kennedy. I'm Fredricka Whitfield out of Washington. We continue our continuing coverage of the remembrance of Senator Ted Kennedy with Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper.
