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Flames Engulf L.A. County; Search Wrapping up at Garrido Home; Health Care Battle Back to D.C.; Dick Cheney Speaking Out; What to do with Sex Offenders?; What's Next for Dugard and Children?; Abortion Faceoff in Nebraska; Three Survive After Boat Capsizes

Aired August 30, 2009 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Late-term take over. An abortion doctor targeted by protestors is promising to pick up where his murdered colleague left off. He tells us why, live.

Lost at sea. For a week, searchers even gave up and the Coast Guard as well, when suddenly a sight for sore eyes. Three weary fishermen saved by sheer luck. You'll hear their incredible odyssey tonight.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Our top story tonight, thousands of people fleeing their homes ahead of wildfires raging in southern California, especially hard hit Los Angeles County, prompting Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to declare a state of emergency.

For the latest we turn now to CNN's Kara Finnstrom. She is live in La Canada Flintridge Ridge, California, tonight, in the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains.

KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you can see that this fire is continuing to burn in the hillsides just behind me. We are expecting a news briefing any minute now with the latest numbers from this fire, but at last report more than 35,000 acres had burned in this fire. That number expected to go up. And thousands of homes had been threatened. We caught up with one of the families who has been on edge here in La Canada for days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wetted everything down a couple of times yesterday. Really soaked everything down, but I didn't, you know, waited.

FINNSTROM (voice-over): Defying orders to evacuate, Skeet McAuley watched his family leave with the La Canada fire exploding, more than quadrupling in size in 24 hours. He chose to guard his home.

(on camera): So this was where you were stationed last night.

SKEET MCAULEY, LA CANADA RESIDENT: Yes, this was my position of power, I guess.

FINNSTROM (voice-over): McCauley with a pump and pool water to douse spot fires. MCAULEY: Last night basically this whole ridge burned.

FINNSTROM: And as a freelance photographer with his still and video cameras at hand.

MCAULEY: It was just a recording more than anything else, you know. Just trying to show them what was going on and trying to keep myself busy, you know. Like I said, it was just hours and hours. There's no wind. It was just slowly coming down, and, you know -- and these trees were just exploding one by one.

FINNSTROM: McCauley sent image after image to his wife, Karen, and daughter, Grace, through a cell phone, a connection reassuring and frightening.

KAREN MCAULEY, SKEET MCAULEY'S WIFE: It has been nerve-racking so we're worried about him, but he kept in touch and kept sending photos.

FINNSTROM: In daylight with the flames at least temporarily at bay they came to check on dad.

K. MCAULEY: This is what you fear every summer, and when the Santa Anas come and we knew that this brush hadn't been burned from 40 to 60 years.

MCAULEY: We were worn. We were worn and frazzled. I'm really happy. You know, we've lost our view, but we haven't lost our home, and we got everybody safe and sound.

FINNSTROM: No homes here in La Canada have burned so far. No lives have been lost. The McAuleys are grateful, but they also know they're not out of danger yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this fire gets in behind us, it's going to be blowing to us, and the embers will be coming to us, and we're not out of this yet.

FINNSTROM: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FINNSTROM: And, Don, the governor did come here to the La Canada area today. He is urging everyone to heed those mandatory evacuations saying the danger has not passed. And, Don, we should mention that the three people who have been hurt so far during these fires did not heed those evacuation orders and were actually suffering from burns tonight.

LEMON: Yes. And as we can see night is about to fall there.

What do we expect from this fire overnight, Kara?

FINNSTROM: Well, some good news for the people in the La Canada communities. And that is that the fire appears to be moving mostly in a northerly direction. That doesn't mean they're out of the woods, there's still spot fires. Firefighters still very concerned, but the main body of the fire is moving north, and they're very concerned about neighborhoods up in the Acton area where this fire could head to next. They're staging a number of areas to fight it.

LEMON: All right. Kara Finnstrom in the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains. We appreciate it, Kara.

Let's see what the folks in Los Angeles County will get, if any, relief from mother nature.

We want to go now to meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. She joins us now from the CNN severe weather center - Jacqui.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: All right. Jacqui Jeras.

Thank you, Jacqui.

Police in Antioch, California, say they will probably wrap up their search for Phillip Garrido's property tonight. This is what they've been sifting through for three days.

Take a look at this. Ever since it was discovered, the kidnap victim Jaycee Dugard had spent the past 18 years there, and not just her amid all this squalor, but two young daughters, ages 11 and 15 allegedly fathered by Garrido. Now somewhere along the way, the kidnap victim became part of Garrido's life even helping him run a business.

Here's CNN's Dan Simon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They lived in squalor in the backyard. These pictures obtained by CNN that showed the trash- and clutter-filled tents that authorities say Jaycee Dugard lived in with her two children fathered by rape and kidnapping suspect Phillip Garrido.

This photo shows a wire cage. Next to it, a shed with sliding doors and metal clasps, suggesting that it could only be opened from the outside. It's not clear what either was used for. Inside this tent, dressers. You can see a small children's lamp and teddy bears on one of them. Tennis shoes on the floor amid stains and garbage. Also, this book, "A Family Affair," was found along their belongings. Seems ironic it would be here given the circumstances of the case.

This picture showing raggedy furniture and an empty box for a computer printer is notable as we've learned Garrido ran a printing business out of his house, a business that his victim was involved in operating.

In your dealings with her through e-mail and talking to her on the phone, what was she like?

BEN DAUGHDRILL, CUSTOMER OF GARRIDO'S: Very professional, very nice. You know, she spoke well.

SIMON: Ben Daughdrill owned a junk hauling business before selling it a few months ago. He used Garrido's company for all his printing needs. He said it was Jaycee, the woman he knew as Alyssa, who handled all the graphics and computer imaging. Daughdrill says he spoke to her on the phone and by e-mail regularly for several years. And on at least two occasions met with her privately to pick up orders in front of the Garrido's house.

SIMON: What was she like then?

DAUGHDRILL: Same way. Just professional and, you know, came across as just a genuine nice person. Didn't see anything that was weird or like she was looking over her shoulder. Nothing. Just, you know, she seemed a normal person.

SIMON: As for those e-mails, they came from a Yahoo! account set up by Garrido and in his name. In them, Dugard uses short, compact answers and lower case answers. This one was typical. Here's the business cards in JPEG format. Let me know if you need anything else, thank you.

Janja Lalich, a cult and mind control expert can only speculate why Jaycee didn't reach out for help.

JANJA LALICH, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, CHICO: The thoughts of escaping are not necessarily going to come to mind, especially for the young children, especially when from day one they've been led to believe that their duty is to obey and comply and live by the dictates of the master.

SIMON: Authorities are still trying to sort out the conditions in which Jaycee was held captive. But as these pictures show, she lived in filth and poverty, all while having two children and working to satisfy the customers of Phillip Garrido's business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. That is disgusting.

CNN's Dan Simon is outside the Garrido home right now.

Dan, you also spoke with Jaycee Dugard's stepfather today.

What did he tell you?

SIMON: Well, Don, he told us that Jaycee has left the motel where she'd been the last few days in the Antioch area, and has moved to an undisclosed location to prevent her whereabouts from being known. He says that they're basically in the early stages. She and her mother trying to get reacquainted. He says they're in good hands, though. That there's a team of psychologists around. But one thing he says has become increasingly clear, and this is one of the more disturbing aspects of this case. He says it seems very clear that Jaycee developed a very close bond with her captor, which, of course, may explain why she apparently never attempted to escape, Don. LEMON: Dan, you know, looking at those pictures, you know, sometimes we say pictures really don't tell the story, but the reaction from you and from other members of the media and other people who are seeing those pictures and the type of conditions that those children really were living in.

SIMON: Yes, it was really, really filthy conditions, you know. Certainly. And, you know, there was a neighbor who personally observed what was going on, looked over his fence. He could see those tents and see the squalor, and that neighbor called the cops. Wanted the cops to come out and investigate and take action. But as we've seen and as we heard from sheriff's officials, they conceded that they really dropped the ball on this case, and really no explanation for it, Don.

LEMON: All right. Dan Simon, thank you very much.

We're going to talk much, much more about this story throughout this broadcast.

We appreciate it, Dan.

Marc Klaas lost his daughter Polly to a sexual predator about the same time that Jaycee Dugard was kidnapped. And we'll talk to him in just a few minutes.

And if you've been following this story, you know that Phillip Garrido spent a decade in federal prison for kidnapping and assaulting another woman many years ago. She will tell her story tomorrow night in an exclusive interview on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE."

President Barack Obama is winding down his August vacation and soon Congress will follow him back to Washington. Now the season may be changing, but the sizzling summer debate over health care reform, it rages on. It's an issue that Senator Ted Kennedy called the cause of my life, and his clout isn't likely to be forgotten on Capitol Hill.

Already, lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are calling for a more civil health care battle in honor of the lost liberal lion.

CNN's Brianna Keilar, a softer tone of debate is one thing, but can Ted Kennedy's death actually sway votes in favor of reform here?

Congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar is in Atlanta tonight.

Will it, Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you know, there is talk about what would Teddy do. But the fact is Democrats and Republicans continue to be very oppositional on their policy differences on health care. In this recess with all of the heat of these town hall events, it appears to have solidified Republicans confidence that if they don't reach agreement with Democrats on health care, politically they will be in a safe position going in to the 2010 midterm elections. And then for their part, Democrats aren't saying that a bipartisan effort is dead, Don, but they admit it's moving that way. And they say they are prepared to use a parliamentary tool that would allow them to pass health care reform with a simple majority instead of the 60 votes that they would ordinarily need, which, of course, Don, is a much heavier lift.

LEMON: So, Brianna, does that mean that President Obama and Democrats will have to settle for more incremental overhaul perhaps of health care and not the sweeping changes that this administration wants?

KEILAR: That's really the direction this appears to be moving. One Democratic source that I spoke with tonight told me Democrats will at least make a strong down payment on health care reform, that they will reduce the skyrocketing costs of health care, and then pledge to do more in the future.

They say this will help them make good on their promises to voters who brought President Obama into power. But Republican sources tell me if Democrats go it alone, it's theirs. And they say that, you know, it's pretty clear, Don, that Republicans can then lump this in with the economic stimulus package painted as big government spending, and then say Democrats own it, and then it will be a political liability for Democrats and the way Republican see it, it could be an advantage for them - Don.

LEMON: Congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar.

Brianna, thank you for picking up the helm for me today. It's always good to see you.

I wish I was working right there in the same room with you.

KEILAR: Good to see you, Don.

LEMON: Good old days when we did that together, huh.

All right, Brianna. Thank you.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney is at it again, speaking his mind and grabbing headlines. And the hard question about what to do with convicted sex offenders. Should they ever be re-acclimated into society?

We're digging deeper on that.

And later, lost at sea for more than a week. Even the Coast Guard had given up the search. You won't believe the remarkable survival story.

Plus, as always, tell us what's on your mind. And that's how you can do it right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: The Supreme Court is cutting short its summer vacation to rehear a free speech case involving Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. At issue is whether "Hillary the Movie" and ads to promote it should have been subject to strict campaign finance laws because of corporate money used to fund it.

A federal court blocked the Washington-based non-profit behind the 90-minute documentary from airing it on TV during last year's presidential campaign. The conservative group joined by the ACLU and others is contesting on grounds of free speech. The case goes back before the high court on September 9th.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney is at it again, criticizing President Barack Obama and his approach toward national security issues.

Let's go back to Atlanta, and rejoin our Brianna Keilar - Brianna.

KEILAR: Don, we are getting used to hearing from Dick Cheney, even though he's been out of office for months. And, as usual, he's not holding back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's clearly a political move. I mean, there's no other rationale for why they're doing this.

KEILAR (voice-over): Dick Cheney refuses to remain silent. He's offended by the Justice Department's decision to look into the CIA's interrogation techniques against terror suspects.

CHENEY: The information they provided did, in fact, save thousands of lives and let us defeat all further attacks against the United States.

KEILAR: Cheney also says President Obama is flip-flopping on a pledge not to revisit past behavior by CIA operatives.

CHENEY: But my concern is that the damage that will be done by the president of the United States going back on his word, his promise, about investigations of CIA personnel who carried out those policies is seriously going to undermine the morale, if you will, of our folks at the agency.

KEILAR: In fact, Cheney says the whole idea, quote, "offends the hell out of me." He says the Obama administration has it backwards. They should be giving Bush team veterans like himself credit for a job well done.

CHENEY: We had a track record now of eight years of defending the nation against any further mass casualty attacks from al Qaeda. The approach of the Obama administration should be to come to those people who were involved in that policy and say how did you do it?

KEILAR: But it's also clear Dick Cheney didn't always agree with President Bush.

CHENEY: He encouraged me to give him my view on a whole range of issues. I did. Sometimes he agreed, sometimes he didn't.

KEILAR: He acknowledges a difference of opinion over the potential use of military force against Iran, for example. And as for other big issues where Cheney disagreed with Bush, we're going to have to wait a while.

CHENEY: I'm not going to -- if I address that, I'll address it in my book.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Now Dick Cheney's remarked that President Obama has gone back on his word is a reference to Mr. Obama's previous statements that CIA interrogators who worked within Justice Department guidelines would not be prosecuted.

Attorney General Eric Holder issued a similar statement this week when he announced this new investigation of the CIA's interrogation techniques - Don.

LEMON: All right. Brianna, thanks again to you.

Let's bring in Lynn Sweet now to talk about more on this. She is one of our regulars here. She's the Washington bureau chief for the "Chicago Sun-Times." And also a columnist for PoliticsDaily.com.

Lynn, thank you so much.

You know, I was flipping through this morning, and I happened to see this interview. You know, I'm not a politico, but I just -- the thought that kept running through my head was mind your business. I just -- it seems like why is he coming out at this point when we didn't hear from him for the bulk of his vice presidency?

LYNN SWEET, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Well, this has to do with the CIA and this is near and dear to him. And I think, Don, that's why he's willing and eager to take on an interview on this. A lot got done in this interview today that was very interesting. Not only did he accuse Obama of flip-flopping on the pledge to go after CIA agents. He also very surgically just put that knife between Eric Holder, the attorney general, and President Obama in a way to really throw a spotlight on a very dramatic difference between the president and his own attorney general.

LEMON: I understand what you're saying, Lynn, but, you know, he's not in power anymore. So then -- so then why?

What gives here?

SWEET: Well, he is writing a book. This is a run-up to what will probably be a massive publicity tour. You know, you have to keep people a little excited about yourself if you're going to write a memoir. LEMON: So is it more about the book, or is it more about politics here?

SWEET: Well, I think it's a mix. There's three things. Yes, the book is coming out so he wants to stay in play, and he has big political differences, and this is a subject that is very close to him.

He probably -- you know, I bet he would not have devoted himself on a Sunday to an interview just on other issues, but the CIA involvement, something he was centrally involved in.

LEMON: OK. All right. Let's move on here. Let's move on here.

I have to say it was an interesting interview. I watched every single minute of it. And I thought it was very interesting and, you know, even he talked about his relationship with his former boss is not always chummy.

SWEET: It's a little frosty sometimes.

LEMON: Yes, a little frosty.

We had heard that. And then he said, you know, hey, find out in my book. So, obviously, he -- there was a motive. There was some motivation to find out. He is selling the book.

SWEET: Yes.

LEMON: Let's talk now about the president. Back from vacation. Does he have to move on now from health care to tackle other issues? Are other issues sort of being sidelined because he's paying so much attention to health care?

SWEET: For the moment, yes. I think when he comes back we will see another big push. There are rallies throughout the country being sponsored by Obama for America, which is a Democratic National Committee arm of the Obama campaign. They're going to now have to decide if they go it alone just on Democratic votes as Brianna said in her report setting up this discussion here, and they have some strategic decisions to make -- most important, do they want to go for the whole loaf of bread or will they take some, you know, will they take some slices and do it now?

Too soon to tell. Way too soon.

LEMON: All right. Lynn Sweet, always good stuff as usual.

SWEET: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you.

SWEET: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Well, he was a known sex offender who met regularly with a parole officer. Yet, Phillip Garrido was able to lead a double life and allegedly hold Jaycee Dugard against her will.

How could this happen? And should sex offenders ever be released?

We'll ask Marc Klaas, founder of the Klaas Kids Foundation and he...

And later, a simple fishing trip, we'll tell you, turns into a week lost at sea for three men. Even the Coast Guard have given up their search. You won't believe their remarkable rescue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The sudden reappearance of Jaycee Dugard 18 years after she was kidnapped made headlines around the world, but it could be just the beginning of a long and bizarre crime saga.

Police in Antioch, California today brought cadaver dogs to the property next door to the home of Dugard's alleged kidnapper, Phillip Garrido. Now Garrido is also believed to have fathered Dugard's two daughters. Police say Garrido used to live on the next door property and they want to know if any bodies or other evidence are hidden there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY LEE, CONTRA COSTA COUNTY SHERRIFF'S OFFICE: I'm going to confirm those are cadaver dogs. We're going to have them go through the backyard at 1450, and that's part of the overall investigation. It's too early to say what we're looking for. I mean, anything that may be linked to some open cases that we have at this point. We're going thoroughly through both backyards, and it's just too early to say, you know, what we might come up with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Investigators are looking for any evidence that might link Garrido to other crimes in the area, including unsolved murders of prostitutes in the 1990s. Police say they have interviewed Garrido's neighbors. We talked to some of them, too. Here is what a couple of them had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE ROGERS, NEIGHBOR: There would be partying next door, beer drinking and carrying on, and there would be a bunch of guys back there. And they always had a bonfire going and they'd be high-fiving each other, just going crazy.

DALE WHITE, NEIGHBOR: Laughing, and you never heard any kids having more fun than that. And also an adult lady, you know, and she was just cracking up, like, you know, they were horse playing in the pool or something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Neighbors speaking to CNN's Ed Lavandera.

Well, Phillip Garrido began talking to the media almost as soon as he was in custody. TV reporter Walt Gray of affiliate KCRA spoke to Garrido by phone for about 10 minutes. Now in this clip, Garrido says he used to be a monster but he's reformed.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PHILLIP GARRIDO, ALLEGED KIDNAPPER OF JAYCEE DUGARD (via telephone): My life has been straightened out. Wait until you hear this story of what took place at this -- at this house, and you're going to be absolutely impressed. It's a disgusting thing that took place with me in the beginning, but I turned my life completely around.

WALT GRAY, KCRA-TV CORRESPONDENT: You're mentioning it's going to be a heart-warming story. Can you -- can you just -- is there any -- can you give me an overview as to is it a love story? Is it a story about children?

GARRIDO: No, no. It's a constructive story of turning a person's life around and having those two children, those two girls. They slept in my arms every single night from birth. I never touched them. You just have to take this a step at a time, and just do what I ask you to because you're going to be so happy that you did.

I can't go any further because if I do, you know, if we get too far into it, but wait until you find out. I mean, there's going to be a -- these people are going to be coming forward at this trial. And that's not all. I'm going to be -- you're going to be in a state of shock when you see how many hundreds of thousands of people are going to come out of the woodwork to start testifying about something.

GRAY: Are the children OK?

GARRIDO: Yes, absolutely.

GRAY: Is everybody in the house...

GARRIDO: Absolutely. Since the youngest one was born, from that moment on, everything turned around. And these people are going to testify to these things.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: Jaycee Dugard's case hits close to home for the family of Polly Klaas. A parolee with a long rap sheet kidnapped the 12-year- old girl from her home in 1993 and later murdered her. Polly's father has since turned his grief and anger into action. Marc Klaas has become a child advocate and he joins us tonight from San Francisco.

Thank you, sir, and we appreciate the work that you do because this has really been your life's work.

Again, I ask you a question, you know, as I was reading, I was thinking 1993 when Polly went missing and then eventually it ended up that she was murdered. It's been a long time.

Do you feel -- when you hear these stories, do you feel like progress is being made here?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, certainly progress has been made, Don.

In 1993 and even more so in 1991, there was no fallback position, not only for people like us, but for law enforcement in these kinds of cases. There were no protocols that existed. We seemed to protect the rights of evil intent more than we did the rights of innocent citizens.

And since that time, we have things that would have made a difference in this case. Things like truth in sentencing. We have penalty enhancements for repeat offenders. We have the AMBER Alert.

LEMON: Right.

KLAAS: We have Megan's Law, which is sex offender registration and community notification.

LEMON: And I'm sure you would agree that while we've made progress, much, much more needs to be done. Let's talk now about the Dugard case.

KLAAS: Sure.

LEMON: And when you talk about the recidivism rate of sexual offenders, it's very high.

Do you believe that these people should be released back into society?

KLAAS: Well, let's take this case as the perfect example. This guy had been convicted of raping and kidnapping a person prior to this. They knew what he was going to do when he got out. Yet they only made him serve 20 percent of a 50-year sentence. And sure enough, he gets out of prison and almost immediately he kidnaps this young girl.

Let's be really clear about something, Don. Never in the history of the world, certainly never in the history of American criminal justice, has a pedophile nor a psychopath/sociopath ever been cured.

Therefore, when we identify who these individuals are, we need to do everything we can to protect innocent citizens from them, whether that be in prison or some form of civil commitment.

LEMON: OK. You know, we heard the sheriff there. Even the sheriff admitted that, you know, they could have done more.

What do you think about the sheriff's comments about that they didn't do enough to save these young children, even earlier?

KLAAS: Well, certainly the sheriff was appropriate in coming out and admitting the mistakes that they made. I would even go so far as to say that the deputy that reported to that house in the year 2006 who didn't do any kind of background check and took this character for his word should probably be let go of his position.

That's not what we hire these people, so that they can get an easy paycheck. We hire them to protect us. And that was a clear dereliction of duty because it could have saved those girls at that time and it didn't.

LEMON: You know what? This case makes you wonder how many other, you know, Jaycee Dugard are there out there.

KLAAS: That's a very good question and I suspect that there are others. I mean, we've seen them over the course of the last several years. We've seen some of them be solved in one way or another, search Steven Steiner, Shawn Hornbeck, Elizabeth Smart.

The one thing that these all have in common, though, when I think -- we have to be very careful where we tread here -- is that in each one of the cases the children had opportunities to leave and they didn't.

So, there's some very powerful psychology going on in the background here that compels these victims to stay with these captors.

LEMON: All right. Marc Klaas, appreciate you joining us and again we appreciate the work that you do. You devoted your life to this.

KLAAS: Thank you, sir.

LEMON: All right.

Police say their mother was held captive for 18 years and they were fathered by her captor. We'll speak with an expert about how to help the Dugard children heal from their horrible ordeal.

And he calls himself a proud abortionist. We'll talk to the doctor who runs the clinic where anti-abortion protesters and pro- abortion right advocates faced off this weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The break in the Jaycee Dugard case came Wednesday on the campus of UC Berkeley. A university policewoman became suspicious of Phillip Garrido and the behavior of the two young girls with him.

CNN's Anderson Cooper spoke to her about the fateful encounter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The youngest girl was across from me and she was very intently staring at me and smiling in a very eerie way. The older daughter was looking at Mr. Garrido and not looking at us, not making eye contact with us, and her eyes were darting around at the ceiling and would give really quick clipped one-word answers and would glance at us and back up at him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the question on everybody's mind is what's next for Jaycee Dugard and her daughters and how can they ever be healed from this horrible ordeal.

Dr. Judy Kuriansky is a clinical psychologist who teaches at Columbia University, teaches college and she joins us now from New York.

I want to make sure -- are we hearing from her microphone? Can we hear?

JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, the major...

LEMON: Can we hear?

We're hearing her?

OK.

KURIANSKY: The major issue is that that this is a very psychotic man. So it makes sense to me. I know people are thinking, how could this possibly happen. I've seen people like this in the hospital. And I think what was going on is the man was trying to set up a cult.

LEMON: Really?

KURIANSKY: It has every one of the symptoms of it where you -- first of all there's a lot of the drugs. His father said he was on LSD, so drug-induced psychotic behavior. He thinks he's the messiah, he's the messenger from God. The angels are talking to him. He wanted to get all these people to follow -- to get followers. He ended up going on campus. He thought he was ready to spread the word.

LEMON: Yes, but he -- I mean, so far it appears he only had this couple of followers. He didn't have a very good -- do a very good job at...

KURIANSKY: He was getting ready.

LEMON: He's getting ready to do it.

KURIANSKY: Right. And he thought he had -- he had now resolved some of his aggressive and sexual urges. Not. But he was ready with his word. This is very typical of a cult, and the fact that Jaycee and her two daughters have really been inculcated into this. They're going to have to be deprogrammed. They can't just...

LEMON: That's what I want to talk to you about.

So, what is -- I mean, this guy obviously is a nut job. He's, you know, he's cookie, but where do you start? Where do you start with rehabilitating these -- I mean, they're all children, all three of them are children. KURIANSKY: Well, because...

LEMON: And the family as well.

KURIANSKY: Well, they all need to be deprogrammed. I'm very concerned about it. The two little girls -- Starlet and Angel. They've been given another word. She has a whole new identity. She's Alyssa.

But Jaycee, she's not Jaycee. The mother was even feeling something that she was brainwashed. You can't just throw this girl back into her environment and think she's going to readjust. She had a family. She had what she thought was a husband, so-called father, and this robotic mother. This was their environment. They have to be deprogrammed because my theory is this was like a cult...

LEMON: Yes.

KURIANSKY: ... and she was already brainwashed.

LEMON: All right. Hey, this is -- you are very passionate about this.

KURIANSKY: I am.

LEMON: I want to ask you because viewers are as well. We have been talking about this. I mean, this story has -- really people have been asking me about it everywhere I go.

Someone on Twitter writes, I think dragonrider9721 says, "How can Jaycee and her children adjust when they have no concept of what is normal?"

And that's true.

KURIANSKY: They can't. Exactly.

They are not normal, but to them that life is normal. That is their world. They had Barbie dolls. She had makeup. She wasn't like in other cases that we know where she was locked up, where this monster locks up the people in a closet and murders the babies. They were treated. They were reading books about self-esteem. They were reading other novels. They had their own version of abnormal.

LEMON: Well, that leads me to this then. Their age. Does that help or hurt in their sort of trying to figure out what's normal again?

KURIANSKY: Well, it hurts them because they've already have many years of this and they might have also been abused and they might also have been -- had drugs put into their system.

LEMON: So they think that's normal.

KURIANSKY: I don't think that they're going to easily adjust at all. I think they also have arrested development we call it, because even though -- you may know what a 15-year-old is like, I doubt it that she's really like that.

Right now it's going to take a lot, and you cannot think that these children can just be spoken to. They had glassy stares. They're already possibly under the -- this delusion about what the so- called father was teaching people.

LEMON: Dr. Judy, we could go on and on. And if we have some time, we'll bring you back. We really appreciate it. I'm glad your microphone is working because you had a lot to say tonight. Thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

And we told you earlier that Phillip Garrido spent a decade in federal prison for kidnapping and assaulting another woman many years ago. She will tell her story tonight in an exclusive interview with "LARRY KING LIVE." That's tomorrow night. Tomorrow night, an exclusive interview, "LARRY KING LIVE," 9:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Dr. Judy Kuriansky, clinical psychologist, thank you very much.

A late-term takeover. An abortion doctor targeted by protesters is promising to pick up where his murdered colleague left off. Leroy Carhart he will join us in just a little bit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The tea party express keeps on rolling out West. The anti-tax, anti-big government bus tour is making its way through Nevada this weekend. Nationwide tour kicked off Friday from California headed for the nation's capitol.

The activist and their supporters say the bus tour is just the beginning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe he's trouncing the Constitution, and taking control of our country in a direction that we don't want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to make us a socialist state.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're the sleeping giant that has been awakened. We're the silent majority that is no longer silent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we're not an unruly mob. I think most of us are, you know, just average citizens and we're trying to make a difference, and we're trying to make our feelings known.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Tea party express organizers say they plan to spotlight big spending members of Congress as they make their way across the country. Their final rally is scheduled for September 12th in Washington.

He is one of the few remaining late-term abortion doctors in the country, and today controversy came to his doorstep. Dr. Leroy Carhart, abortion and contraception clinic of Nebraska was the scene of a face-off. Anti-abortion protestors and supporters of abortion rights confronted each other outside the Belleview, Nebraska facility, and Carhartt has said he also hopes to carry on the work of Dr. George tiller, the abortion doctor killed at his church in Kansas on May 31st.

And the doctor joins us tonight live from Las Vegas to discuss the protests and the murders of his friend -- the murder of his friend, I should say, Dr. George Tiller.

Thank you so much for joining us.

How are you doing?

DR. LEROY CARHART, ABORTION PROVIDER: Don, I'm very well. Thank you for having me.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you for being here.

Why do you decided to reopen this clinic?

CARHART: We really felt that, you know, doctor -- it's one of the handful of clinics in the United States that does the abortions after viability. To leave only one clinic open in Boulder, Colorado, I think would be a disservice to the women. There are not very many post-viability apportions done, perhaps less than 700 to 800 in the United States in a year. But there needs to be places for the women to go to have them. And with the loss of Dr. Tiller's clinic, where approximately 500 of these had taken place annually, there needs to be a replacement.

LEMON: That's what I was going to ask you, if you could talk a little bit more about this.

Why do you feel it's so important to provide this service for women?

CARHART: Well, women that are faced -- first of all, 20 -- depending on the studies you read, 20 out of 100,000 woman, anyway from 15 to 20 died from being pregnant. If a woman has a flawed pregnancy that cannot survive, there is no reason to force her to carry that pregnancy to term when the risk of abortion is in the less than 0.1 of one percent range, and the risk of death from just pregnancy itself is in the 20 per 100,000 range.

LEMON: Are you concerned about your safety?

CARHART: Of course. I think, you know, Dr. Tiller and I talked about our safety many times, and he did everything he could think of to make himself safe because we know there are fringe elements of the radical right that are out there that would want to eliminate all of us because they think or they know now that that will close a clinic, and that's the second reason why I have to carry this clinic on so that we don't close a clinic because they murdered someone. LEMON: All right. Dr. Leroy Carhart, thank you so much for joining us tonight, and we wish you, you know -- we hope for your safety here, OK?

CARHART: Thank you, sir.

LEMON: All right.

A presidential case of the H1N1 flu. We'll tell you where.

Also, new controversy surrounds the release of the Lockerbie bomber. Even on his hospital bed, the convicted terrorist is being questioned about a rumored oil deal with Libya for his release.

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LEMON: The president of Colombia has H1N1, the influenza virus commonly called swine flu. President Alvaro Uribe fell ill on Friday. The same day he was attending a South American Summit in Argentina. All of the other leaders who met with Mr. Uribe at the summit are being contacted about his illness. He's in stable condition and he is being treated at the presidential palace in Bogota.

Senator Edward Kennedy's grave site has opened for public viewing at Arlington National Cemetery. The site features a 2-1/2 foot marble cross and a marble marker. A temporary rope line has been set up so people can approach Kennedy's gravesite. There are plans to build a permanent walkway in the future.

New controversy surrounds the release of the Lockerbie bomber even on his hospital bed. The convicted terrorist is being questioned about a rumored oil deal with Libya for his release.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A third person has died from a savage attack in a mobile home in a Georgia coastal town of Brunswick. Police have arrested a man who they say tipped them off to the mass killing yesterday. Twenty-two-year-old Guy Heinze, Jr. hasn't been ruled out as a suspect in the killings. He is jailed on charges of drug possession, evidence tampering and lying to officers. Heinze is related to one of the people found killed in the mobile home. A ninth victim remains hospitalized. The police chief says he needs the public's help and a $25,000 reward has been offered in that case.

More controversy in the case of the Lockerbie bomber freed from prison in Scotland over U.S. objections. Abdel Basset Al Megrahi won a compassionate medical release 10 days ago and was sent home to Libya. But today in a triply hospital bed he would not answer the question that is sweeping through the United Kingdom. Was he freed from prison as part of the secret oil deal with the British government?

A U.K. newspaper reports such an agreement was brokered that would allow a British energy company drilling rights in Libya. U.K. Justice Minister Jack Straw calls the report wholly untrue. Three fishermen lost at sea for more than a week, the Coast Guard had even given up the search. But they never gave up hope.

We'll have the details of this remarkable rescue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Three fishing buddies survive more than a week lost at sea, reportedly living on bubble gum, crackers, and will power.

There they are stepping back on dry land earlier today after spending eight days clinging to their capsized catamaran bobbing 180 miles from land in the Gulf of Mexico.

James Phillips, Kurt Hall, and Tressel Hawkins were spotted by a boater yesterday one day after the Coast Guards stop search.

Our Fredricka Whitfield spoke with one of the fisherman who described those days and nights waiting for rescue.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRESSEL HAWKINS, RESCUED BOASTER: It happened so fast, the boat turned over on us, and we jumped out one side of the boat, rolled over to the other side, and we were pretty much holding on to each other and just trying to, you know, collect ourselves. Because at that time, I mean, we were just trying to wake up, trying to figure out what happened, and then how it happened so quickly.

And so we're just trying to get each other calm, and try to get as much stuff as we could, because we knew automatically it's going to be a survival test.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wow. And so morning comes, nightfall again, morning, nightfall again; this goes on now for a week. What you didn't know is that there were teams out there looking for you. And just this past Friday, the Coast Guard actually called off the search, saying this is futile. We can't find them. And out of nowhere, then what happens?

HAWKINS: I don't know where -- a guy named Eddie Yonklin (ph) had -- was bringing a boat back. He was traveling I think it was from Florida, back to Texas. And he was bringing his boat back to the house, and we were actually on the last oil rig that was out. I believe he told me it was 220 miles south. So we were an extra 120 miles south of where we should have been. And we kind of (INAUDIBLE). It took us a while for us to catch his attention.

WHITFIELD: I'm sure you couldn't believe your eyes.

HAWKINS: Oh, yes, we were all crying, celebrating. And I mean, if the TV was right there when he pulled up in front of us, it was just amazing how we just -- I mean we had -- he to actually let us stay on the boat, because he was scared. We were just hugging each other, and you know, just -- I mean, we've been through so much of an ordeal that we were just celebrating before we even got on his boat. You know, it's kind of like we were on our own schedule even though we were ready to get off this boat. But it was amazing. And he's a real good guy and took care of us well, really well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: It was not a mirage. It was a real guy. I'd be celebrating as well. The Coast Guard says the men weathered the ordeal pretty well, all things considered. They all turned down medical attention once they were plucked to safety.

Glad they're fine.

A very big win for some California kids. We'll tell you about what.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Take a look at this. The city of Chula Vista, California, is celebrating tonight as well they should be. Its Park View Little League team is the new Little League World Series champions.

Chula Vista beat the Chinese Taipei 6-3 in the championship game today in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. It is the United States fifth straight Little League championship.

Congratulations to them.

I'm Don Lemon in New York.

Stay with CNN for the latest on the California wildfire situation, as well as the Hurricane Jimena, a category four storm approaching Baja, California. Our Jacqui Jeras and our meteorologists will update you on that.

I'll see you next weekend.