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Police Investigate Accused Kidnapper for Murder; Hospitals Ready for H1N1 Outbreak; Economy Affected Men's Business Fashion; John Walsh Presses for Better Monitoring of Sex Offenders; Grisly Market in Kidneys
Aired September 01, 2009 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: What we know is horrendous. What's alleged is grotesque. But what we don't know about the convicted rapist and kidnapper who allegedly held Jaycee Dugard for 18 years, police are still digging, and we're pushing the investigation forward.
Plus, we're eyeing Mt. Wilson. For more than 100 years, California's window on the universe. It's now in the eye of the firestorm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELMO: Sneeze into your arm with Elmo. Achoo!
ROSCOE ORMAN, ACTOR: Great job!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Never too early to learn how not to spread germs. We're pushing forward on swine flu precautions, defenses, responses, from "Sesame Street" to the White House.
Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
So, just what happened to Jaycee Dugard could happen to almost child, almost anywhere, almost any time. And that's one reason we're all so revolted yet riveted by Jaycee's ordeal and the capture of her alleged kidnapper.
Another is the possibility that the suspect did, in fact, kidnap other young girls whose fates still remain a mystery. We're pushing forward on both these fronts over the next two hours. Attempts to connect Phillip Garrido to unsolved disappearances and our fear of sexual predators in general.
How much would you pay to find out if and when a sex offender moves into your neighborhood? Our Josh Levs runs down some online resources.
We're also talking with a convicted sex offender, who says people like him may be a menace to society, but can be reformed. I want to know what you want to know. Tweet us with your questions for Jake Goldenflame. He'll answer them next hour right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. All right, let's start with the case that may be solved but is far from closed. CNN's Kara Finnstrom is in Antioch, California, Jaycee Dugard's home for 18 years.
Kara, there's a lot of ground to cover. So, let's start first about this bone that was found near Phillip Garrido's property.
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Kyra. Just behind me is Garrido's property. And if we pan over slightly, you can see the neighbor's home.
You know, for a while this remained vacant, and he was actually the caretaker for this home. So, what they wanted to do was take a closer look at this. Garrido's had complete access to the property, and when they began searching, they found this bone fragment. At this point it's not clear whether that is animal or human bone, and they have sent it off for some testing, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, tell us about the efforts now to tie him to these other cases that we've talked about.
FINNSTROM: Well, there are a number of unsolved crimes in the area. First off, there are a number of rapes that took place, and murders that took place, in the 1990s involving prostitutes. Some of those bodies were found near a park where Garrido once worked. They're looking into those.
There are also two cases of children who were abducted back in the 1980s. Two young girls who have vanished and not been seen from since. And they're going to take a closer look at those, as well.
In one of the cases one of the girl looks an awful lot like Jaycee Dugard, and there's some similarities in the sketches of the suspect in that case and also Garrido.
So they're going to be opening a lot of these cases that have been unsolved. You know, at this point, it's so early on in these investigations that it's hard to say that this will have any traction. But at the same time, you know, there's been a lot of criticism that they missed some early clues as far as the disappearance of Jaycee Dugard, that possibly they could have found her earlier, and they certainly don't want to let any of these leads go.
PHILLIPS: And we're actually going to be talking with a former parole officer, in addition to John Walsh coming up, about that parole officer that was assigned to this case and how, in fact, this officer could miss so many clues.
Meanwhile, how is Jaycee holding up? Do we know anything?
FINNSTROM: The family, understandably, has been very reserved about what they're sharing, and they want her to have a private healing process.
But what we do know is that she's been reunited with her mother. And on the FBI Web site, actually, there is a recording that was made by an FBI agent who actually watched them be reunited. And he says there was a lot of joy there.
He also referred to her two girls and said that they also seemed to, you know, be enjoying this reconnection with the rest of the family.
So, one nice bit of detail in the midst of all these horrific things that we've had to report.
PHILLIPS: Yes, indeed. The story continues. Kara, thanks so much.
Well, we can't forget Nancy Garrido. That's Phillip's wife. She's charged alongside him in Jaycee's kidnapping, and later this hour, we're going to hear more about her and her role in all of this.
Meanwhile, the battle against swine flu from the nation's capital to cities big and small and beyond. We've just learned that all New York city schoolchildren will be able to get free swine flu shots. It's part of Mayor Michael Bloomberg's plan to contain the H1N1 virus this fall. He's meeting with city officials right now.
Same for President Obama, by the way. And he's conferring with key cabinet members at the White House. He's trying to nail down a tough question. Is the government prepared to fight this new deadly virus?
More than a million Americans have already gotten swine flu. About 500 people have died. Millions more are expected to get it this fall, and then thousands more could die. It's part of the focus now, reaching out to children.
Now, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELMO: Sneeze into your arm with Elmo. Achoo!
ORMAN: Great job!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Elmo doesn't want you to tickle him this time. The feds are actually teaming up with "Sesame Street" to teach your kid how to keep the swine flu from spreading. Don't worry: Oscar the Grouch won't be featured in these PSAs. Elmo's singing, and we're pushing forward taking a closer look at how the government is encouraging kids to fend off swine flu.
We're actually taking your questions straight to the education secretary, Arne Duncan. That will be live next hour. So, please, send them to me right now, MailToTheChief@CNN.com. Or Twitter me at KyraCNN.
Free swine flu shots for school kids in New York. Recruiting Elmo to teach kids how to fight the virus. They beg the question: is the country's medical system actually ready for this new flu virus? CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is here to basically, you know, well, try to get down to the bottom line. Are we ready?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I wanted to go straight to the source on this one. Because there's a lot of people sort of saying different things when it comes to how many people are infected, what would exactly happen if you're diagnosed. Do you go to the hospital? If so, is the hospital ready for you?
So I went to Kathleen Sebelius -- she's the secretary of health -- and actually toured what's called a ready room, an area that might be very utilized if this starts to fire a little bit more out of control. It was interesting. But I'll just cut to the chase a little bit here. It is good news overall. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: So where are we here?
(voice-over): In the nation's capital, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and I, toured the Washington Hospital Center's ready room. This is the place where people with H1N1 would most likely be brought for treatment.
(on camera): We're in the -- in a hospital here...
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: Yes.
GUPTA: ... and obviously, this is an area that people may have to visit if they get sick with the flu.
SEBELIUS: That's right.
GUPTA: Do we have enough meds, ventilators, resources to take care of the potential outbreak or pandemic?
SEBELIUS: Well, I think that we have been working not just since I became secretary of HHS, but working over the last five or six years on emergency preparedness, on hypothetical pandemics. So, that's very good news for the American people.
We're currently inventorying the respirator stockpile and trying to identify all of the respirators that are in this country.
GUPTA (voice-over): The worry is this: the need for hospital resources could outweigh their availability. But Sebelius says hospitals have received nearly $3 billion over the last 5 years to ramp up capacity to deal with the virus or any other emergencies.
(on camera) If there's up to a million people who need ventilators, respirators and there's about 60,000 or so intensive care unit beds, the math just doesn't add up. You have rooms like this, but is it going to be enough to be able to take care of all these patients?
SEBELIUS: Well, I think that's -- that's one of the challenges that, you know, ideally everybody doesn't get sick at the same time, and everybody doesn't need care at the same time.
We don't know how this outbreak will look. It's unlikely to be evenly spread throughout the country, evenly presented throughout the country. So, being able to not only identify where things are, but move them quickly. Get the assets to where the, you know, the outbreaks present is one of the mapping strategies that we're engaged in right now.
GUPTA (voice-over): So, to find out how ready this hospital might be, I went to the head of the emergency department.
(on camera): Do you feel, based on what you're hearing, that you'll be able to handle as many patients as there might be?
DR. BILL FROHANA, WASHINGTON HOSPITAL CENTER: Given the early predictions, I think we're in a good spot. You know, we could always do better.
GUPTA (voice-over): And the American Hospital Association says hospitals are in good shape for H1N1. And they do have emergency plans in place. But some experts say if even half the projected cases materialize, it could overwhelm the medical system.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: All right, so knowing what you know now, and seeing what's happening in New York -- I was just reading through all the various things that Mayor Bloomberg...
GUPTA: Yes. Me, too.
PHILLIPS: Yes, we're both looking at those, what Mayor Bloomberg is going to do. Is -- good idea? Is this the way to get on top of it? I mean, should other states be doing the same thing?
GUPTA: You know, it's interesting because there's been models before this H1N1. You know, anthrax, which you and I covered. Trying to figure out how hospitals prepare for that. Smallpox, there was a concern about that. So some of this has been sort of in training, if you will, for some time.
But I think the recommendations seem to be rooted in the science that we've been hearing about for some time. For example, they talk about, obviously, free flu shots, free mist -- flu mist, as well, for people. So that's important. A lot of lot of people wouldn't get it because they think they can't afford it.
This issue about school closings is fascinating, Kyra. So should a school close if children develop H1N1 in the school?
PHILLIPS: And New York is saying if there's a school with five or more cases of influenza, that they're just going to alert people to that.
GUPTA: Correct.
PHILLIPS: They're not going to close anything down.
GUPTA: That's right. They say -- that is actually different than in the spring. Remember we heard about a lot of school closings in the spring.
PHILLIPS: Right.
GUPTA: They're saying, "You know what? That doesn't seem to make the most sense." Instead, keep those kids at home; keep the schools open. That's another thing that we're hearing, as well.
So they're also talking about expanding emergency departments, as you saw there in that piece. Having these ready rooms with ventilators, doctors to take care of people who are infected. But, you know, there's no doubt a lot of mixed messages, you know, concern that 120 million people might get infected. But also, as you saw, some good news from Kathleen Sebelius. He's pretty optimistic that we are prepared.
PHILLIPS: OK. So let's take a look at our Web site: CNNhealth.com, because I know you're going to talk about what's on there and how a lot of people can get their questions answered.
One of the main questions being asked, OK, are we going to, all of a sudden, to see thousands of people start dying. And why would -- why didn't we do anything to prevent that? Because it's very much a gamble, but you're saying it's not going to get that bad.
GUPTA: Well, there's -- a lot of this is based on models. They try and figure out, OK, how does this virus behave in the southern hemisphere? Well, it's been their winter. That's a pretty good model. And how did this virus behave in the spring? And they use that sort of to predict.
What we're hearing from the president's advisory council is that up -- between 30,000, as high as maybe 90,000 people could die of H1N1. But keep in mind something important, Kyra, is that when we talk about seasonal flu, which we hardly ever talk about, because we're just used to it, about 36,000 to 40,000 die of that every year, as well.
So these numbers aren't really out of sorts that much. You know, when we talked about the 1918 pandemic, we're talking about millions of people dying. This doesn't sound like that at all.
My guess is a lot of people will have a couple of crummy days. They're going to feel awful; they're going to feel like they have the flu. But then they're probably going to be OK. And that's the good news for the vast majority of people. It doesn't mean, as you point out on our Web site, there's some -- some specific criteria where, you know, you think that this more serious. You need to get to a hospital and get it checked out. But the vast majority of people aren't going to need that.
PHILLIPS: Got it. Thanks, Sanjay.
GUPTA: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, no matter where you live, you'll want to pay attention to this. You could end up helping to pay for around-the-clock battle against a deadly wildfire in Southern California, sending money and manpower to a state that's strapped for cash.
The flames are racing through the Angeles National Forest, just north of Los Angeles right now, and those numbers are staggering. Nearly 122,000 acres burned. Two firefighters have been killed, and at least 53 homes and businesses burned to the ground. Thousands more are threatened. And Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor of California, is touring that fire zone right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: I want the people to know that we are doing everything that we can in order to help and to save lives, to save property, and to save your memories.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: California's $180 million fund for the entire fire season is about half gone, and the season is just starting. The state could apply for federal help if that fund runs out.
Thousands of people have fled their homes in Los Angeles County now, but some others are staying put. They're trying to protect their property. Here's what it's like in one neighborhood in Tujunga.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, here we are in the Tujunga Canyon, watching this fire go through, trying to protect the buildings. And here's a picture of it coming up, probably through the -- one of the closest spots of the property that can catch a building. So, I'm going to tape it just so you guys can see just how fast this thing progresses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Tujunga is one of the hardest-hit areas in the fire zone, with whole neighborhoods actually burned to the ground.
We've got some amazing time-lapse pictures of Mt. Wilson from a Web cam. Take a look at this, as the flames get closer. The mountain is the home to the world-famous Mt. Wilson Observatory, and a lot of television towers and radio and cell phone towers are also there. So if the flames make it all the way up that mountain, parts of L.A. could lose cell phone service and radio and TV signals and lose a window to the universe.
Fire crews have set backfires and sprayed fire retardant all over that area.
Chad Myers keeping an eye on the flames in southern California. He's also keeping an eye on the hurricane approaching the Baja Peninsula. We're going to get a live update from the CNN weather center, coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, parts of the Pacific coast are under siege from major wildfires and a powerful hurricane, and Chad Myers is tracking it all for us -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Wouldn't it be great if we can put those two together? Not so much the wind, but the rain. That could be 20 inches of rain along Baja California that will never sneak up into Southern California. It may get up to southern Arizona, but it's just not going to get all the way up here.
Now, there have been a few showers. There's been a little bit of moisture that's come up ahead of the hurricane, but literally you can find them on radar. And they actually are hitching the ground and not evaporating on the way down. You're doing better than most.
Three miles an hour, the wind in L.A., three at Oxnard, two in San Bernardino. We're talking about how that's good and bad at the same time. The wind just isn't getting the smoke out of the way, but because there isn't wind, it isn't blowing the flames like a big firestorm in some spots. The fire is doing a good job all by itself.
And here is Jimena. We've been talking about this all day long. Look at the size of the eye right there. There's Cabo San Lucas. Now, there are two towns in Cabo. There is San Jose del Cabo, where most of the people that live there live. And then there's Cabo San Lucas, where most of the people that visit there visit. They're about 20 miles away from each other.
And so I think Cabo San Lucas, the visit town, the tourist town, will be harder hit. Although those buildings, those structures, are much stronger on that side of the town. As it runs on up, though, all along the coastal sections here of Baja California, there will be significant damage and a 135-mile-per-hour storm.
Now I'll take you back to the smoke, Kyra, because you can literally see it from the satellite and how it's bubbling up here in southern California. It's that same smoke now that will be choking parts of California for the next what they said will be a couple of weeks.
There are the showers. I promised you some. Boy, more than normal, but that's not going to help anything.
The next thing we're going to talk about is probably going to be Erica. Now, that's an "E" storm. This is a "J" storm, the other one, Jimena, "J," because it's in the Pacific. This is Erica. It's "E," right after Danny. And then there was -- I don't know what the "C" name was; it wasn't that important. Before that was Bill.
But this I think will probably either get a number or a name today. It's looking pretty impressive. There are the Leeward Islands of the United States. Florida still far, far away, at least five days or so, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Chad, thanks.
MYERS: Sure.
PHILLIPS: No motive. No suspects. A community on edge. We're not hearing much from police today about a mass killing in a southeast Georgia mobile home. Eight people are dead. Police have identified the victims, most of them members of the same family.
Iran's ready to talk about its disputed nuclear program, but will anybody listen? State-run TV says that Iran has prepared a, quote, "updated nuclear package" and will offer to it world powers. No word on what's in it or whether Iran wants concessions.
Only a handful of states allow it, and now Vermont has become one of them. A new law allowing same-sex couples to marry takes effect today in Vermont. A small group from an anti-gay church turned out to protest, but they were far outnumbered by gay-marriage supporters.
Lifestyles of the rich and famous, or infamous, we should say. The beach-side retreat of financier turned felon Bernie Madoff's up for sale. We'll take you inside.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Getting a badly needed jolt from Uncle Sam's cash for clunkers program. Some members of the auto industry are riding high. Ford is posting a 17 percent increase in sales for August, but Chrysler says that low supplies of fuel-efficient models kept it from taking full advantage of the rebate program.
Some 700,000 cars rolled off dealer lots, totaling sales of nearly $3 billion. But that could lead to a sorry September, now that the cash for clunkers program is out of cash. Industry insiders say that car sales are likely to take a pretty deep dive.
Well, the global financial crisis has taken a toll everywhere, including men's suits. That old business stand by, the pinstripe, well, it's being hit especially hard. Our Richard Quest is actually wrapping up his tour of the world's financial capital, and he's joining us once again live from London.
So, I'm just wondering what you're going to say differently today that you didn't tell me yesterday, because basically you were saying you still aren't that optimistic.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, listen, that's a polite way of saying have I got anything new to tell you?
PHILLIPS: You've got it, Richard!
QUEST: Because I have today. Well, listen, I just tell it as it is. Has Quest got any new facts?
PHILLIPS: Do you have any new facts? Do you? QUEST: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Then give them to me!
QUEST: Yes! I -- this suit that I am wearing for you tonight is old-fashioned, out-of-date and out of touch with reality at the moment. Jeeves and Hawks, the fashion people on Savile Row, the makers of the London suit, surveys now on Savile Row are saying that pinstripes are out. Why? Because they are the pinstripe of bankers.
The old saying in Britain, the old saying in London, used to be, never wear brown in town. Because you used to wear brown suits in the country or when you're at your weekend home. Now, of course, people are wearing brown suits. They're wearing different colors.
And if you are wearing a suit like this, especially one with three buttons, which is so last year, then you are out of date, you're out of tune, and -- and -- you may be mistaken for one of those bankers reaping bonuses. And there's another "B" there, but we better not say on television.
PHILLIPS: Yes, well, exactly. Because all the pinstripes are in the poky because of all those bonuses and all that corrupt behavior.
QUEST: Apparently, it is true. I mean, just as much as we are now much more touchy-feely, we're in tune with our feelings, our values have changed. Pinstriped suits are out. People are now wearing lighter colors. They're wearing more earthy colors. They're getting in touch with their emotions and with their values.
And so, I just wanted to wear this to show just what a dinosaur you've got tonight.
PHILLIPS: All right, Richard Quest, what can we look forward to maybe tomorrow or the next day?
QUEST: Teasing. I'm going to leave you dangling there. You'll have to wait and find out, which is a good way of saying I've absolutely no idea.
PHILLIPS: OK. Fabulous. We'll work on something. You're just great television, Richard. We just love talking to you. Yes, you show up, pinstripes, no pinstripes, bathing suits, whatever you want.
QUEST: OK, the problem that I've got, Kyra. The problem I've got, Kyra, I've got so many pinstriped suits. What am I going to do with them? Have a bring-and-buy sale?
PHILLIPS: Richard Quest, you're a piece of work. We'll see you tomorrow.
Straight ahead, resolution after 18 years. What can the Jaycee Dugard case tell us about other crimes yet to be solved? Or, better yet, prevent it? We'll ask "America's Most Wanted's" John Walsh.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Will a small piece of bone connect the alleged tormenter of Jaycee Dugard to similar cases still unsolved? Two horrors still unknown. CNN's Ed Lavandera pushes forward on the fast- moving investigation in Antioch, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The shadow of suspicion surrounding Phillip Garrido is growing. Investigators are already looking in to whether Garrido carried out a series of murders in the 1990s. The victims were found near his workplace.
Now, authorities are also asking if Garrido could be the culprit in the disappearance of two other young girls. One of the victims is 9-year-old Michaela Garecht, who disappeared in 1988. Her mother says investigators are comparing notes.
SHARON MURCH, MISSING GIRL'S MOTHER: I've been asked a few questions about -- regarding evidence along the lines of what kind of clothing that she was wearing.
LAVANDERA: Investigators say Garecht's disappearance is somewhat similar to Jaycee Dugard's capture. Both girls resembled each other. A similar car was used in the abduction, and a sketch of the suspect looks like Garrido. Garrett's mother says the news makes her hopeful.
MURCH: Jaycee's mother just got up and went to work one morning like every other day, and in the middle of the day, she received a phone call that changed everything. And I believe that that can happen for us also.
LAVANDERA: Investigators searching the crime scene around Garrido's home dug up a small bone fragment in the next-door neighbor's backyard. It's significant because authorities say Garrido had access to the property.
JIMMY LEE, CONTRA COSTA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: So, we're taking that bone back for further examination. We don't know if it's human or animal, and we're going to take it back for further testing.
LAVANDERA: While the spotlight has focused on Phillip Garrido, much less is known about his wife. Nancy Garrido appeared to cry in court last Friday. She's been described as brainwashed. Cheyvonne Molino, who knew the family, simply describes her as strange.
CHEYVONNE MOLINO, GARRIDO ACQUAINTANCE: My personal opinion, she's crazier than he is.
LAVANDERA: Phillip and Nancy married in 1981. He was an inmate in the Leavenworth Federal Prison. She was a visitor coming to a see a relative. Neighbors say she often left the house wearing scrubs.
MARIA CHRISTENSON, GARRIDO BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: She was kind of quiet. She stayed to herself, but she would talk to me. She would come in, you know, just, oh, how you doing, oh, OK. You know, she would just -- she was kind of quiet and stay in the background. Whatever he said, she said "yes."
LAVANDERA (on camera): But there are still disturbing questions about Nancy Garrido's behavior, especially during a four-month stretch back in 1993, two years after Jaycee Dugard was abducted. Phillip Garrido had been picked up on a federal parole violation and sent back to prison for those four months. Why didn't Jaycee Dugard escape during that time, and what role did Nancy Garrido have in keeping her here?
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Antioch, California
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, the Dugard case was profiled on "America's Most Wanted" not long after Jaycee was kidnapped. Coming up right after the break, we're going to talk with John Walsh.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Back to one of our top stories now, the Jaycee Dugard case. Found alive nearly two decades after she disappeared. Her story was profiled on "America's Most Wanted" not long after Jaycee was kidnapped. Joining me to talk about the outcome and the potential links to other cases now, America's best-known child safety advocate, John Walsh.
John, always so good to see you. And I've been -- this is the one question that I've been wanting to ask you now for weeks. Where in the heck was that parole officer all these years? Even going over to that house, how could this individual not find anything suspicious?
JOHN WALSH, CHILD SAFETY ADVOCATE: Well, that's the $64,000 question, Kyra, is strict enforcement on convicted serious sex offenders. And I'm not defending the parole officer, but I know many parole officers have as many as 75 or 100 cases. And I've seen this over the years.
It's been 27 years since my son, Adam, was murdered, and I've seen numerous, numerous cases. For example, the cannibal killer in Wisconsin that was not monitored by his parole officer, Dahmer. If you remember, Jeffrey Dahmer was convicted of molesting a young boy. He was put on parole, kidnapped the boy's 16-year-old brother in retribution, had him in the house, sodomized him and murdered him.
He had body parts of other young men in there, and a parole officer never went to his house to investigate him. I could list many, many other convicted sex offenders like Dahmer that should be monitored more strictly.
PHILLIPS: Not only be monitored more strictly, but if you are someone, like -- I mean, Garrido, back in 1977, 32 years ago, spent 11 years in prison for rape. And he talked about his sexual desires, his fantasies, his obsessions. I mean, shouldn't those types of individuals at least, if they're going to get out of jail and be given a parole officer that's supposed to keep tabs on them, shouldn't there be some sort of extra check throughout the house, throughout the backyard, into their background? Because we've been hearing about this now for decades.
WALSH: Absolutely, Kyra. You've hit the nail on the head. I know that you covered the signing of the Adam Walsh Act three years ago when President Bush signed it in the Rose Garden. And you and I have talked about it many, many times -- a national sex offender registry, stricter enforcement, people allowing people in the neighborhood to know that a level three, not the guy that may have urinated at Mardi Gras, but the level three convicted serious sex offenders are monitored. That bill has not been funded by Congress.
So, the question is, the Adam Walsh Act would create better monitoring, better exchange of information, more awareness amongst law enforcement, better reporting and the ability of neighbors to know that a level three sex offender lives next door, that they could make the call if something was suspicious. But that act has not been funded.
This Congress has bailed out financial groups, car companies, Wall Street arbitrage companies, but it hasn't funded the Adam Walsh Act. So, all those questions you're asking are questions that I've been asking for years.
PHILLIPS: Yes, and you know, I go so far back with you and your case and your little boy. I go all the way back with Marc Klaas when Polly was killed. You remember Richard Allen Davis, that guy had a rap sheet, you know, from here to eternity, and he was still walking the streets until he was finally, you know, put to death for the murder of Marc's little girl.
I'm just wondering, how many times am I going to have to interview you? Am I going to be interviewing until you're 90 years old and still pushing for legislation? I just don't understand what it's going to take in our country to make these laws stricter. And especially with sex offenders and predators, they should never, ever be allowed to walk the streets.
WALSH: Well, you know, we're all talking about the health care issue. Well, certainly, the health of these children, like Casey Dugard, who was kidnapped -- Jaycee Dugard, who was kidnapped at 11 years old, it is a national health issue. And I still cannot understand how this Congress has not dealt with the funding of the Adam Walsh Act to create a better sex offender registry, better monitoring of the level three offenders.
And it's mind-boggling that Congress has not dealt with this, and that this guy was able to keep an 11-year-old girl in his backyard for 18 years, sexually molest her, abuse her, impregnate her twice. He even went to jail for four months for a parole violation while this beautiful young woman and her two children were locked up in his backyard. It is mind-boggling. It shouldn't happen in America. We are the richest nation on the planet.
PHILLIPS: Which leads me back once again to 1977, when Garrido sat there in the courtroom and said, I have sexual fantasies, I have addictions, I -- he admitted to all of this stuff. And he spent 11 years in prison, but he was let out. So, I guess my question is, what is it going to take, John, that when something like this does happen, that they stay in jail?
WALSH: It takes -- first of all, we can't keep them all in jail forever. And I certainly would like to see, especially guys like him, to be monitored closely, kept in jail longer or...
PHILLIPS: But John, let me ask you, why not? I mean, we see all the people that are put on death row. We see serial killers and murderers in jail for the rest of their life. Why can't we put those who rape and molest little kids away for life? Why not?
WALSH: I'm all for that, and especially in light of the fact that no one has come up with a serious treatment program that can guarantee society that these guys are going to be OK when they come out. And it's all about dollars. You and I always talk about this.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
WALSH: It's the dollars. Parole officers make about, what, little bit more than sanitation workers. It's about the dollars. Do we really care about the Jaycee Dugards? Do we care about their safety? Do we care that these guys are out on the streets? Shouldn't we monitor them better?
I say this again, and I said it to Congress many, many times. You authorized, Congress, a $44 billion Mars rover, a little robot on Mars that sends back ice crystals, but has not funded the Adam Walsh Act that would create better monitoring of these guys, and law enforcement and parole officers better training and more money to do their job.
PHILLIPS: Point well made. And, you know, one more -- while I have you, if you don't mind. Next hour we are going to be talking to a man who spent five years in jail for molesting his daughter. He's a convicted sex offender. He's out.
And he talks about the fact that he has -- he feels he has been reformed, yet it's something that takes focus every single day. It's an addiction. He's got to fight it. He's got to go through a mental checklist every time he gets that feeling. But he says he's remained disciplined for decades now.
So, OK, obviously, you know, there's a lot of us that wish these rapists and offenders would spend the rest of their lives in jail, but like you said, not going to happen. Can they be reformed? Can they -- do you believe -- we're going to hear from this one convicted molester, but do you think from what you know and all the time you've spent being an advocate on this issue, do you believe in that?
WALSH: I haven't seen a conclusive, effective sex-offender treatment program that really guarantees that these guys won't reoffend. I've seen thousands and thousands of fugitives and criminals and sex offenders that have reoffended countless times.
Please, if we're going to let these guys out, let's keep exploring the treatment programs. Let's hope that this guy is cured. But there has to be a way to monitor them. The Adam Walsh Act says that they have to come in every six months and give a newer picture, a more recent picture, that they have to visit their parole officers, that their parole officers have to see what they're doing, where they're living, that they're not having contact with children.
God, just think about it. This woman was in a backyard of a convicted rapist for 18 years and had two babies in that backyard and nobody knew they were there. It's mind-boggling. Don't -- do we not care enough about our children? Do we not have enough money?
We bailed out every car company. We bailed out every banking group, every mortgage company that needed it. Please, the Adam Walsh Act, people need to get involved and say to their congressmen and senators, that bill signing three years ago in the Rose Garden was nothing but a photo-op. And Jaycee Dugard is living proof that the Adam Walsh Act needs to be funded and enforced.
PHILLIPS: John Walsh, it's always really terrific to talk to you. Thanks so much.
WALSH: Thank you. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Let's move on to a make-or-break issue now for America. Something we've heard all too often during this recession, lose your job, lose your health insurance. That's what's happened to a lot of folks in Evansville, Indiana, where Whirlpool is closing its plant and cutting thousands of jobs.
Our Ali Velshi made a stop there while traveling on the CNN Express bus.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Health care to me is a moral issue, and it's a civil right, and we need to move with the rest of the developed world and have a real health care program.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely!
(APPLAUSE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Let me get a sense of that from you. How many people think that the administration is on the right path with respect to health care reform, roughly on the right path? How many of you think the administration is not on the right path with health care reform?
OK. One of you want to tell me about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I disagree that health care is a civil right. I think it's a civil right to be able to keep your own income and buy with it what you want.
And I think the health care crisis is highly overexaggerated. It's not something that the government should be running. And I'm sorry that people are going to be out of health care, but everybody has been at one time or another, and you go out and you build yourself back up again and you get it. But it's not everybody else's responsibility to give it to everybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We pay 17 percent of our gross national product for health care. Canada pays 9 percent and covers everybody, and we leave all these people uncovered.
Twenty thousand people die every year because they don't have insurance. This is a real number. That's more than six times as many as died in 9/11, and it's happening every year.
VELSHI: Do you think health care is the biggest issue facing us right now? Put up your hands if you think health care's the biggest problem facing us.
One of. OK, well, I'll give you another option. How many of you think jobs, unemployment, how many of you think that's a bigger problem?
OK. And some of you voted twice.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ali, I've got to say, once we get past this socialist smoke screen that we hear so much about, everything that any government does is socialist, OK?
Let's at least, on the health care, why don't we at least give catastrophic coverage to the young families. You go to any store or any gas station, you walk in, there's some poor young family got a little four-year-old daughter dying of leukemia. Insurance is not covering the care for her.
What they have to have -- they have to have charity benefits, ask for donations.
(APPLAUSE)
If on the 5:30 news we can brag about million-dollar-a-shot weapon systems, why can't we keep -- why can't we help save our dying children, at least?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: And we're going to be hearing from Ali the rest week. He's now on his way to Springfield, Illinois.
Nice digs, huh? Check out this cottage. It belongs to a superrich felon. Now, the sale of this seaside retreat could help Bernie Madoff's burned investors. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: So, will the notoriety help or hurt? Cozy beach cottage of disgraced financier Bernie Madoff is up for sale. And it's not palatial by Hamptons standards. But profits from the property on the tip of Long Island could help some of his burned investors. A member of the U.S. Marshal Service actually gave us a tour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have here is a four-bedroom, three- bath house. The living room, the kitchen and the master bedroom all own a view of the ocean.
From the master bedroom, leads out to a porch over here with an amazing view. Left to right, nothing but ocean shoreline. The market value is $7 million, and that's what we're looking for. What we gain from the sale of this house is going directly to restitution for the victims.
All the personal property will go to an auctioneer and be auctioned off. And I'm talking about from chinaware to silverware to the rocking chair that Ruth Madoff may have sat on while reading a book, watching the waves roll in, to the desk that Bernard Madoff used here.
Madoff's posh Manhattan apartment and his palm beach estate are also going on the market. Proceeds of those sales are expected to be returned to his victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Madoff's posh Manhattan apartment and his Palm Beach estate are also going on the market. Proceeds of those sales, too, are expected to be returned to his victims.
Desperate for a kidney? Willing to pay $160,000 for it? It's all part of a global black market in human organs. Our Drew Griffin investigates.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Now, a story with a grisly impact around the world. When the FBI arrested a Brooklyn businessman on charges of organ trafficking, trying to broker the purchase of a kidney for $160,000 the news seemed shocking and unique. But a CNN global investigation found the illicit buying and selling of kidneys, even in the U.S., is not only routine but a robust, growing industry.
Drew Griffin with our special investigations unit has been doing the digging on this story. Is it really that common?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kyra, this is one of those stories where I didn't know anything about it when I got into it. Now, I realize that anybody out there waiting for a kidney is really wasting their time. That's how easy this is. And this includes one man that we interviewed that did it. He sold his own kidney for a price of $20,000. We hit him in Tel Aviv just last week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK ROSEN (ph), SOLD KIDNEY BY ANSWERING AD: So, I saw an ad in the paper, and the ad said, kidney donor wanted.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Nick Rosen (ph) says selling a kidney in the United States was an easy as answering that ad. Nick Rosen is an Israeli citizen. He bears the scars of an operation where he says neither doctors nor the hospital asked too many questions.
(on camera): Do you think they knew? Do you think the surgeon who did the surgery knew?
ROSEN: I think they may have had a feeling or hint. But I can't say I know for sure.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): A few weeks after answering the ad with a promised payoff of $20,000, Rosen said he was flown from Tel Aviv to New York, hustled into New York's Mount Sinai Hospital, where he and the patient he'd never met before told hospital staff they were cousins.
(on camera): They didn't ask for family records or anything like that?
ROSEN: No, no.
GRIFFIN: So, basically, you were just two guys who came in and declared yourselves cousins?
ROSEN: Yes.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Dr. Barbara Murphy is in charge of the hospital's kidney unit. She says screening is rigorous but...
DR. BARBARA MURPHY, MOUNT SINAI HOSPITAL: We're not detectives. We're not the FBI, and we don't have methods that they have at their disposal. And people can on occasions deceive us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: OK. Not detectives, but it's not that hard to verify who somebody is and if indeed there's an issue.
GRIFFIN: It begs the question: Are people looking the other way? And when we looked into the Rosenbaum (ph) case, the case that the FBI uncovered up and down the East coast, there had to be a lot of people actually looking the other way. There are ways to fool, to get around the legal system if you say the right words. And the brokers are the ones who guide you through that.
PHILLIPS: OK. And you actually talked with how many brokers? You interviewed I know one broker that's in the piece.
GRIFFIN: One broker is in the piece. We've talked to several others who all told us the same thing, that this is very easy to do. And Kyra, 10 percent, the World Health Organization says 10 percent of the kidney transfers done around the world are illicit. That boils down to about four every day here in the U.S.
PHILLIPS: So, is it just -- is this -- bottom line, did you discover it's all about making money, and if someone's desperate, hey, they sell their kidney, they get cash? Or are there a lot of people out there that are on these donor lists, right, and then the lists are so long, and they can't legitimately get something, so they go this route?
GRIFFIN: Yes, there's all of that taking place. Plus, there seems to be some sort of an acceptance of healthy people now. It used to be a Third World phenomenon. You know, you'd go to India and you'd get a kidney for very cheap.
Now, we have a guy like Rosen selling his for $20,000. We talk about another -- a Korean man who sold his for $25,000 in Los Angeles. That was just last month. So, there is somewhat of a bidding war going on, but there are also still people very desperate who are selling their kidneys for $5,000, $2,700, just looking for a little way out of their poverty situations. And desperate people willing to pay.
PHILLIPS: How much does the broker get? The broker gets a cut, right?
GRIFFIN: The broker that we talked, he does about $5,000 a deal. Some others get $10,000 a deal. Some of them believe they are doing it out of their own heart, arranging these. Some, obviously, are in it for money.
PHILLIPS: Look forward to the whole report. Thanks, Drew.
You can actually catch Drew's full investigation. That's going to be tonight on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starting at 10:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.
