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Police Kill Pastor; Georgia Murder Mystery Deepens; Controversy Surrounding President Obama Addressing School Children; Wackenhut Guards in Kabul Sex Scandal Going Home; Eating Well on a Budget

Aired September 04, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The co-pay for one of my medications is $389 every two weeks. And I'm afraid I might not be able to afford my property taxes and I will lose my home.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please hear this voice of the disabled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ask the question!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't let the insurance lobby win this fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not here to hear everybody's opinion. I want to find out from...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, she's a handicapped woman in a wheelchair who's had -- threatened to lose her -- she's afraid of losing her home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how a handicapped woman in a chair has more rights than I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Rudy Ruiz is the founder of redbrownandblue.com. He's written a blog that asks Americans to open their minds.

Rudy, thanks for being with us.

RUDY RUIZ, FOUNDER, REDBROWNANDBLUE.COM: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: When you say open our minds, it almost sounds like you're saying that Americans are stupid. Are we?

RUIZ: Not at all, Rick, not at all. I think what I'm trying to get at is that we're seeing a little bit of an emerge of a culture of close-mindedness in America.

SANCHEZ: Isn't closed-mindedness stupid, though? If I'm not willing to listen to other information, I'm stupid. RUIZ: Well, I think that the key is that by listening to other information and allowing us to be educated by that information and for our opinions to evolve is a reflection of intelligence.

SANCHEZ: Why are we less intelligent now than we have been in the past? What is going on? What is making Americans, left and right, by the way -- because there was a man yesterday, by the way -- I don't know if you heard about this. There's a guy out in California who had his finger bitten off at one of these town hall meetings by an Obama supporter.

Now, that's civil, isn't it?

RUIZ: No, you're right, Rick, I did hear about it. And I think it's obviously -- we're seeing extreme manifestations of what I think are currents of a lot of fear in our society and a lot of anger.

And what we need to do is let our better spirits prevail. And as you said, how do we go back to what makes our democracy strong? The founding fathers in the First Amendment to the Constitution wanted to guarantee freedom of speech and freedom of expression and freedom of assembly.

So, basically they wanted people to be able to get together and discuss things and hash these issues out.

SANCHEZ: Right.

RUIZ: And the only way you can do that is by keeping an open mind to listen to each over. You don't have to agree, but you at least have to respect the right of that person at the microphone to speak their views.

SANCHEZ: Well, Rudy, that all sounds great. Yadda, yadda, yadda, we got to make sure that we respect one another, we got to be nice to each other, and blah, blah, blah. Bottom line is, we're not.

In fact, we may be going through one of the most shrill episodes in our nation's history right now. We're seeing it playing out every single day. The question I have for you is these things don't happen in a vacuum, man. These things happen because there's a force, there's something going on out there that's causing people to react this way.

I'm asking you. You have studied this. I read your blog. What is it? What do you think it is?

RUIZ: Well, I think what we need is leadership here. And I think that we need leadership from both sides of this debate to step up and stop thinking solely about the best interests of their own party or their own political careers and start thinking about the best interests of America as a whole and appeal to their constituents, to their base.

(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: So, you're blaming it on the politicians. You're blaming it on the senators, the congressmen, the president, all these guys who are supposed to be leading this debate. You think they're not giving the public the information that makes it possible for the public then to be knowledgeable and civil?

RUIZ: I'm not necessarily blaming it. I'm just saying I think there's an opportunity for them right now to change the tone of the debate and to get...

SANCHEZ: You're copping out, man. You're copping out. Come on. We're never going to solve the problem we have if all we do is talk about how lovely the weather is outside. There are problems here. What are the problems?

RUIZ: Well, I think the problem you're pointing out is people aren't listening to each other. They're just yelling at each other. So, the first step is that leaders have to exhort that constituents to take a step back and listen to each other and try to find some common ground here, try to find some consensus. You're not always going to agree with the other side.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me stop you and add -- let me argue with you on this. If you get in your car in the United States of America right now, and you're going to spend an hour getting to work -- some Americans spend more than an hour getting to work -- and then another hour getting home, and you turn on your radio, what are the chances you're going to hear an even-keeled civil conversation from someone on the radio who has a talk show?

What are the chances? Give me some odds here.

RUIZ: Well, I think your chances are probably pretty slim, Rick.

But I think that's part of the point of redbrownandblue.com, which was to try to create a forum for more diverse opinions, not just culturally or ethnically, but intellectually or politically or philosophically. We need more different voices out there being heard, voices of reason, voices looking for consensus, because, like I said, we might not agree with each other, but we have to find ways to move forward together as a country.

SANCHEZ: I was trying to harden you up. I appreciate it.

You're going to come back, right?

RUIZ: Yes, sir. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: We have got something we want to show you and then we will continue this conversation, see if you have a different opinion after that.

And we will have that. Rudy, thanks again.

There's an important follow-up to this story about a Georgia pastor who was shot and killed by police in what may have been a misunderstanding. Remember, we were all over this story yesterday. Well, today, here's what we have. His last words before he died, his last words before he died may reveal what really happened here.

Also, is President Obama being presidential by taking -- by talking to the kids in our public schools? Or is he trying to indoctrinate them, a la Castro, Saddam Hussein, and Kim Jong Il? Here's a question for you. There's a lawmaker that's making the charge that he is acting like those three names I just tossed out. That lawmaker will join me to defend his position. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Did agents shoot and kill a good man, a pastor, an innocent man because of a misunderstanding?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If someone pulled up to me with guns, I would run.

SANCHEZ: Is the answer to this found in his last words?

This man doesn't want the president to talk to America's schoolchildren and compares him to Saddam Hussein. He joins me live.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: LeGarrette Blount nailing Byron Hout right on the chin.

SANCHEZ: The college football season starts off ugly and with a punch. Why did he do it?

Tom Ridge says he was misquoted by his own book, not his words. Then whose?

TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY CHIEF: I think we always made the right decision.

SANCHEZ: Is there something else behind this?

It's parts of your national conversation for Friday, September 4, which starts right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And welcome back, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez, coming to you from New York City today.

This is one whale of a story. You heard the argument yesterday. This is it, a pastor is shot and killed by police who thought that he was involved in a drug transaction. Why did they think that? Well, because at one point he had a female drug suspect in his car? Why did he have a female drug suspect in his car? Maybe because he's a pastor, and pastors minister to all of their parishioners, good and bad.

The point is, he had dropped her off already and continued on to a gas station to get money from an ATM. That's where the surveillance video picks up the story. Let's go.

Police are thinking that some kind of drug transaction had gone on between the pastor and his parishioner. So, they move in. See them coming in that vehicle right there? And they confront Jonathan Ayers while he's still sitting in his car. They are in an unmarked car and they're all in plainclothes, no police uniforms.

They don't have the blue light. They do have badges around their necks and announce that they are police, according to witnesses. It turns out, though, there was no drug transaction. As for Ayers, there's a possibility he didn't even know that they were police, and thinking that he was being robbed, he tried to get away.

By the way, they found no drugs, in fact, nothing illegal about Ayers or his car. Here's the upshot. As sad as this story may be, we checked the minister's Web site, where he said the things most important in his life right there in black and white, Jesus, his wife, and his church.

The officers are all now on paid administrative leave. Obviously, there's a lot of questions, so it's all pending the results an investigation as to why they didn't announce themselves have, why they didn't have the blue light going.

As for whether Ayers, the pastor, knew that they were officers, that they were really police, when they came and approached his car with guns in their hands, the family today said this. His last words before he died -- you ready -- his last words before he died were: "Who shot me? Who shot me?"

What do you think of this? Go to my blog and let me know at CNN.com/ricksanchez.

Here's another one I want you to think about. Why is former Secretary Tom Ridge saying the words on his own book are wrong? How can you be misquoted in your own book? What's really going on here? Wayne Slater is going to be joining me. And we're going to talk about this, you, me and him together.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Here's another follow-up.

I want to come full circle now on a story that we first reported to you Monday, because today I'm getting some brand-new information on the brutal killing in south Georgia that took the lives of eight people.

Look at that. You fill a frame to -- you fill the screen to be able to tell this story, all of them found in a cramped mobile home dead, eight people dead, and a 3-year-old boy is still clinging to life. He was in critical condition last we checked.

Now, you have heard us report on the lack of information that's been coming from police. You have heard how people are scared that's some kind of brazen killer or killers running around in their community in this part of south Georgia.

Well, just a short time ago, the local police chief defended how he's handling this case, defended the flow of information, said that he understands the fear and appeared to say that he's afraid, too. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT DOERING, GLYNN COUNTY, GEORGIA, POLICE CHIEF: The community out there has a great need to know what's going on. We too live here. It's not just those who live in that neighborhood.

And, yes, we do have certain things and details about this investigation. Obviously, I won't release those, because it won't do any good to help relieve them of some of the fear that they have. We too have that same fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: And, by the way, he's not the only one that's worried. For the first time today, a member of the murdered family, for the first time, a member of the murdered family is speaking out to us, to CNN.

Clint Rowe has talked to CNN's Sean Callebs. You see Sean right there. He's going to join me in just a moment. Clint Rowe is telling Sean his family is worried that there's a monster on the loose. Remember, this is the man who has lost many of his family members.

Let's take a quick listen now to part of this conversation he had with Sean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINT ROWE, FAMILY MEMBER OF MURDER VICTIMS: You don't get into what's in his mind. If he's got a mind enough to do that, what he did, you don't know where he will head or what he will do next, do they?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think there is a monster out there.

ROWE: Well, wouldn't you think he was a monster after killing eight people in one night?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right, there's something else I want to bring in now before we bring in Sean. Remember this man? Let me show him to you. There he is. That's Guy Heinze Jr. He's family as well.

And he's been in jail since shortly after reporting the deaths to 911. You may have heard elsewhere -- not here -- that Heinze had been released. Not true. He's still being held on a handful of charges, including lying to police.

There are apparently a lot of complications with his bond set Wednesday at what would seem like a paltry $20,000.

Now let's go live to Sean Callebs. He spoke today with the family. And he's now at the scene of the memorial being held for seven of the eight children.

Good afternoon, Sean.

CALLEBS: Yes, good afternoon, Rick.

I want to start by just showing you inside the funeral home, the seven caskets, seven of the eight people who were brutally murdered last Saturday night. They all shared a mobile home together. Now seven of them share this one room inside this funeral home you see behind me in the small town of Jesup, Georgia, only about 45 minutes from Brunswick.

And you know why we're in here? Because the family wants us to show these pictures. They want the community to know, look, this is the final outcome. Here are the seven bodies, the remains of those people who were brutally murdered.

I talked with Clint Rowe. He is the brother-in-law of four -- or five of the family members, a father, his four children. I actually talked to the mother as well today. She, of course, a surviving mother who was living away from the trailer.

She is simply a wreck, as you can imagine. She has a very difficult time holding a thought. She said she's basically not sleeping at all. And she also told me, Rick, very sobering information. That 3-year-old is basically on life support, so, just a horrific situation here.

SANCHEZ: That's terrible news. Just the other day, we thought maybe he had gone from critical to serious. But now, if he's on life support, obviously, the situation is very difficult.

All right, here's what I want to know and I think here's what a lot of people want to know. Who would possibly have the need or the motive, to use police jargon, to kill or try to kill this many people? Do we have any inkling? Now that you have talked to the family, what kind of sense are you getting about what the motive may have been here?

(CROSSTALK)

CALLEBS: It's interesting, because we drove to the family yesterday and wanted to see if they wanted to chat. They didn't yesterday. I left one of my cards. Clint Rowe called me back this morning at 8:00 and said, come on out. Let's talk. We want to get our story out there.

Firstly, he's very supportive of the police. Even though he says the police have told them basically nothing, he says that's fine with the family as long as they continue to work toward this case and they can find some resolution. In terms of a motive, the family says they simply have no idea. It's It's mind-boggling. They said that, remember, those family members were all very caring, very thoughtful -- quote -- "They would give you a shirt off your back, even if that shirt had holes in it." That's what Clint Rowe told me today

They said that they have no idea who would want to do this. We asked about Guy Heinze Jr., because that's one thing that has been floated around here. Could he possibly be connected to this? And they said, we have no reason to suspect at all that Guy Heinze Jr. has anything to do with this.

And, yes, Heinze Jr. is still in jail. And the problem appears to be the ankle bracelet that he has to wear that will basically provide a GPS signal of where he is all the time, they're having trouble either getting one or getting one that is suitable to use. There's some discussion about, will he be out to take part in the visitation today or the graveside burial tomorrow? We're still monitoring that.

Rick, we called the authorities about three minutes before air. Right now, Guy Heinze Jr. still remains locked up waiting to post that $20,000 bail.

SANCHEZ: All right, Sean, what a story. Stay on it for us. We appreciate all the new information. Thanks so much.

What do you do when the adult store that you were rushing to just before closing isn't open? Well, you make your own way in. That's what you do. That story later in "Fotos."

And then President Obama wants to talk to the nation's schoolchildren. Why is that a big deal? We're going to talk to a lawmaker who says it is a big deal. He says the head of our government has no business talking to our schoolchildren. Also, remember the after-show. We do it right here at 4:00 on CNN.com/live. I'm Rick Sanchez. We're going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: The president's opponents have opened a new attack angle. You know the talk that he wants to talk to America's schoolkids, something I would certainly have loved when I was a kid, the president wanting to talk to me? Opponents now are saying this is political indoctrination. That's right, political indoctrination in the United States.

And one has gone as far as to say that it's the type of thing that you would expect from North Korea or from Saddam Hussein's Iraq. That man is Republican State Senator Steven Russell of Oklahoma. I'm going to talk to him.

Thank you sir, for being with us. We appreciate it.

STEVE RUSSELL (R), OKLAHOMA STATE SENATOR: Oh, you're welcome. I'm glad to be here. SANCHEZ: I'm wondering if you feel like you may have overreached on that.

RUSSELL: No, not at all.

Thanks for having me on.

My remarks were never aimed at the president. The issue is this, that any time we see the White House cooperating with the Department of Education to make lesson plans that go directly to school principals, without any regard to the local school officials, to parents, others, with an expectation that that message should be heard, that should give us pause, and that we should be concerned precisely when it goes right directly to the schoolchildren. That's the issue.

SANCHEZ: I can't help but wonder, though, why it is that you have a problem with this president doing this, when other presidents have done the same thing.

RUSSELL: Well, they have actually not done the same thing.

And I think, if you look in the past when presidents have encouraged children -- and we would hope that all of presidents would do that. That is the right thing to do. But this is a case where we have seen the White House work directly with the Department of Education in the formulation of messaging and lesson plans that would ask students, from teachers, how does the president inspire you? What is it that the president is asking you to do?

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL: And this goes directly to the schools.

SANCHEZ: Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hold on. There is something in there that asks the children how the president has inspired them?

RUSSELL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Can you tell them exactly where that language is?

RUSSELL: I sure can. That language can be found on the Department of Education Web site, specifically to the lesson plans that were formulated in cooperation with the White House. You can go online. You can get these. There's a K-6 and there's a 7-12.

And this is exactly what my concern was. Of course, we would expect any president to want to encourage our kids to stay in school.

SANCHEZ: Sure.

RUSSELL: But the issue is greater than this, because when we see the role of federal government in this case, the White House, formulating lesson plans and going directly to school principals, with no knowledge of parents, no knowledge of school board members, no knowledge of superintendents, no knowledge of state superintendents, this is where many constituents got very, very concerned and said, what is up with this?

SANCHEZ: What about the possibility that you guys just can't stand this guy and you're going to do everything possible to fight him, even if he's doing something as innocent as just talking to our schoolkids, much in the way that John F. Kennedy started the President's Council on Physical Fitness? And I was so proud to wear that presidential physical fitness badge, which meant that I was doing really well in school.

What about that possibility?

RUSSELL: I don't think that the fitness or drugs or any other message had the White House working directly with the Department of Education with formulation of lesson plans, and that that went directly to and past school board members, superintendents and others.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL: And I'm not sure what you mean by "you guys." Please define that for me.

SANCHEZ: Well, who did you vote for?

RUSSELL: That's a matter of personal privilege as an American citizen.

SANCHEZ: Well, who was the last Democrat you voted for?

RUSSELL: The last Democrat I voted for actually was a mayor in a local community race.

SANCHEZ: Who was the last Democratic president you voted for?

RUSSELL: I have not voted for a Democratic president. When is the last Republican president that you voted for?

SANCHEZ: George Bush.

RUSSELL: OK. And that's your privilege as an American citizen. But that's not the issue here.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No, actually, it is. Actually, actually, in many ways, it is.

RUSSELL: No. The issue is...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Hold on. Let me make the point.

RUSSELL: OK, please.

SANCHEZ: And I'm not accusing. I'm asking. That's my job as a journalist. (CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL: Right. And that's why I agreed to come on, because you're normally pretty reasonable about giving both sides...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I am. And you know what? And when you just told me a little while ago that you were upset with the fact that, somehow, the Department of Education and the president was somehow involved in setting up the curriculum, I -- you know what? I agree with you 100 percent.

RUSSELL: Right. And that's the issue here.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I wouldn't want them doing that, whether you're -- I just want a chance for people who are watching this interview who are going to say, you know, this guy just doesn't like this president, and he's against him, and he's going to find anything this guy's doing to criticize him. I'm asking you the question that people are thinking.

RUSSELL: No. I have served under presidents. As a combat soldier, I have served under many administrations. I have no issue with serving under the president of the United States.

And I certainly am honored that we live in a democracy where we can elect our own officials. I'm actually one of those that has been on both sides. But this is an issue where we do not see the federal authority in Article 1 of the Constitution to bypass local authority of our schools and local authority of our parents to educate their children.

They need to be included in this. They have been bypassed. That's a big issue.

SANCHEZ: And I think your point is a good one.

Do you -- there's been a lot of flak, though, about the president. In fact, the president has just buckled on this one paragraph that he had in there where he was asking the kids to write about, I think, something to the -- something that essentially says what advice they would give to the president, how they would help the president.

Do you have anything -- did you find any fault with that?

RUSSELL: What I found the fault on is, why is the White House writing lesson plans and delivering them directly to teachers through school principals? That's the issue.

SANCHEZ: So...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: So, that wasn't that part of it?

RUSSELL: Here's how it struck me.

And as I said earlier in my press release, I was dumbfounded as I looked on the Department of Education Web sites to look at these documents and lesson plans that went to schools. And the issue is this.

It seemed, rather critical analysis, it almost appeared as if they were looking at -- for example, they are quoted things in these documents that say, how does the president inspire you? What is it that the president is asking you to do?

Imagine if this were the former president, Bush, who went on...

SANCHEZ: I agree.

RUSSELL: ... direct and said, look, we want to support our soldiers. They're in harm's way. And we expect you to help me to get this war won and join the fight.

How -- how would the American people feel about that?

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL: No White House has the right to go directly to our schoolchildren. And that is the issue.

SANCHEZ: I think they do have a right to go directly to our schoolchildren. I think where you really make a darn good...

RUSSELL: With local and personal authority, yes, but not without.

SANCHEZ: I think where you make a really good -- the really point is the one you raise about the president asking kids how he inspires them.

If the -- if the Department of Education is actually putting out something...

RUSSELL: They did.

SANCHEZ: Because that's an assumption that he is inspiring them.

RUSSELL: Exactly. Exactly, Rick. That's the thing. And that should cause all of us pause, it's not about the need to stay in school or any of that, it is about the approach. And we still live in a democracy where a dissenting view can be exchanged and where local control guaranteed by the Constitution is still there. And the federal and even state governments have no right to go and directly bypass and go into the classroom without at least consulting them first. That's why many constituents that I represent were angry.

SANCHEZ: And it's a good argument. And my thanks to you, sir, for coming on. RUSSELL: Thanks very much for having me on, I appreciate it.

SANCHEZ: Sometimes in these conversations it gets a little heated, it's part of the process.

RUSSELL: It is and isn't it beautiful, I have seen tyranny around the world as a combat soldier and I'm honored that we are having a wonderful exchange like today. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: My thanks to you as well sir. When we come back, your discussions, what you're saying on Twitter and Myspace and Facebook about this controversy and the continuation of a story that we picked up on yesterday. Oh and fotos and all the laca, laca, laca stuff. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez coming to you from New York today. We have been following for you some of the latest reaction coming in from this controversy about whether the president should be talking to school children.

And in many cases, some people are extremely vehement that he should not be talking to school children. You heard my conversation a few minutes ago with this state senator from Oklahoma, he's been sharing some of his opinions as have you. We're obviously going to be getting as much of that reaction as we possibly can. Stay with us, we're going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: A lot of comments coming in from you after this conversation, I figured there would be. I gave you a break to get them in and here they are. Is President Obama inspiring you to do anything? With a question, we'll go right to the top of the Twitter board and you'll see what we're talking about. Is he challenging you to do anything?

"It doesn't assume anything, Rick. I would rather Obama inspire my kid than anyone else on TV or in the media." Next one says, "Rick, can't you see where this is going? What party doesn't want evolution taught in school?" "This congressman next is totally disingenuous. Anything Obama does different is wrong and then they complain no real change."

So obviously there are a lot of people who are watching this story. Joining me again is Rudy Ruiz who wrote an op-ed on CNN.com saying that Americans have to open their minds. He and I went around and around on this.

The question is are Americans then being stupid? Rudy, you heard my conversation moments ago with the state senator from Oklahoma. Is this part of the discourse that we need to have? He's still saying he doesn't want the president of the United States addressing our school children. But he went on to be a little more definitive about what it was about this that was bothering him, did you buy it. RUDY RUIZ, FOUNDER, REDBROWNANDBLUE.COM: I didn't buy it Rick. I think that the issue isn't so much the so-called lesson plan. I looked at the lesson plan this morning and I think it was more like a discussion guide. I don't think that's really the issue here and I don't think that's the way the constituents of conservatives, far right leaders are interpreting it. I think people are interpreting it as a fear that somehow their children are going to be taught things that they don't want them hearing and I have even got phone calls from some family members of my own wondering if they should keep their children home from school.

SANCHEZ: But let's go to the point that he made, which I frankly think was not a bad point. He really defined his argument as such. There's part of this policy from the National Department of Education which seems to say that, or it asks the kids, he said -- by the way, we haven't fact checked this yet at CNN, so we're going on his word. Hopefully we'll continue to fact check it. I asked him several times about it. That somewhere in that plan they asked the kids, what is it about this president that inspires you? What is it about this president that inspires you? I think that that's leading to a conclusion that these children are inspired by this particular president. Not the presidency, but this president. Does he have a good point there?

RUIZ: Well, I think there's a couple of points to make on that, Rick, one is that, I believe this discussion guide that is being distributed to schools, in no way is being forced upon them. I think ultimately it's up to each individual local school district, administrator or teacher to decide if they're going to use it or not. I think the second point is the discussion guide and the questions in there are directly going to be related to the speech. So how can we pass judgment on the merits of the discussion guide if we haven't heard the speech yet?

SANCHEZ: But do you think the president of the United States should be asking school children in this country how he inspires them? Not if he inspires them, how he inspires them.

RUIZ: I think so because I think the point is the word inspiration, I think we're thinking that inspiration can only be in one direction. I think the person could be inspired to have a negative or a positive reaction. In this case I believe the president's topic is primarily the value of an education and how it helped him achieve his goals, his dreams. And I think in that context, he's an excellent role model for youth to believe that you can come from any background, any place in America and if you get a good education, you can leverage that to have an opportunity to get ahead in this world.

SANCHEZ: What do you think of when I challenged him and asked him to tell me any democratic president that he's ever voted for and the answer was zero, zippo, nacho, nothing, nada. He did say he once voted for a mayor who was a local politician and was a democrat. A lot of people are going to look at that in our audience and they already are from what I can tell as I'm reading this, and say you know what, this is just exactly what you were talking about, Rudy, the republicans just hate this guy, because he's a liberal democrat. Just like a lot of liberal democrats hate republicans like they did George Bush because of what he stood for.

RUIZ: I agree, I think he was back pedaling, I think he overstepped as you said at the beginning of the newscast and, you know, I believe that if people can take issue with the president speaking about the value of education to our youth, then it's obvious that they're going to take issue with anything that he's going to talk about.

SANCHEZ: Rudy, thanks so much, we appreciate your time.

RUIZ: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: His team lost and he had a terrible game. Maybe that's why he took a swing at an opponent afterwards. Boom. That's not all, though, this Oregon running back went after the fan when he was done with the player. That's part of laca, laca, laca.

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SANCHEZ: Welcome back, I always promise that I want to be as transparent as I possibly can on this show. I always say this is a national conversation, which means if I'm getting information, or if I'm trying to get information, I'm going to look for it.

And even if we're doing this live as we are right now on live television all over the country, I'm going to bring it to you. My executive producer, Angela Massie was good enough to look for this comment that this senator from Oklahoma brought up just a little while ago. We promised that we would try and fact check it because when he said it I'd never heard it before. We wanted to make sure we were prepared for this. So now we have got it. And let me read to you exactly what he was talking about.

This is the study guide suggested lesson plan for the president's speech released by the White House. It says create a concept web. Teachers may ask students to think of the following and here's the plan. Why does President Obama want to speak with us today? How will he inspire us? How will he challenge us? What might he say? Do you remember any other historic moments when the president spoke to the nation? What was the impact?

After brainstorming answers to these questions, students could create cause and effect graphic organizers. So this is the advice, the create a concept web as it's called, a study guide suggested by the White House. Is there fault with the fact that he says how will he change us? How will he inspire us? What we're doing now is trying to check to see if other lesson plans created by other presidents in the past are similar to this to see if perhaps we could then raise the question as to why some of these critics weren't concerned back then. That's step two as we continue to do journalism on the fly here for you together.

By the way, our premise from yesterday's show about student athlete who don't screw up and I complimented one young man from Mississippi for doing that? It lasted about 24 hours, why? Here's why. Let's do "Fotos."

Oh, my God, the college football season is here, competition, sportsmanship, you know, camaraderie and that. Oregon, that's the team in green with the big O on their helmets right there. They lost the game and their starting running back had negative five yards. So, when a player from Boise State briefly heckled him, he walloped him. There's a "Leave it to Beaver" word. Great punch for him, not so good for college football, especially when he wanted to then fight some more and took on some of the opposing fans. So much for sportsmanship, so much for camaraderie.

Ohio, apparently this guy just missed closing time at an adult sex shop, but he still wanted in, so he just drove, bang, right in. Then he did a little shopping, do you believe this guy? He's got what he needed, off he goes. The good news is the store now offers drive in service for everybody.

And Toronto, this guy wanted to smoke so bad, he punched a woman at a bus stop. But he wasn't done yet. Watch him go in his bag, pour some type of liquid all over the back of the bus. Yes, get the music up again, Otis, way to go, and then he lights the bus on fire. Finally he -- he lights the bus on fire. He jumps off the bus and he decides he's going to take a different means of transportation, he hails a cab. To the cabbie, he apparently said, hey, buddy, you got a smoke? Better yet, you want one?

These contractors have not only embarrassed their country but they have just lost their gig and gotten their bosses fired. You know what, I doubt too many Americans are complaining about this. There is some big news on this front and we've got it for you.

Also, one of the country's best writers and news men makes his return today right here, almost right now. Who am I talking about? Stick around, you'll see for yourself.

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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez coming to you today from New York. What is this? Again, I ask. As a guy, as a dad. What is this? I mean, I like a good practical joke as well as the next guy. I'm sure you do, too. But take a look at some of this video because there's news on this front that I want to share with you.

These are contractors protecting the embassy in Kabul. You're going to have to see some of these pictures for yourself, and the one that we can show you that is, for yourself, and then try and figure it out. Because if I try to describe what these guys are doing right here, if I tried to describe this, I'd probably be fired by CNN. These guys are armor group guards which are a part of Whackenhut, which is just another military contractor doing more of the work of our soldiers than ever before in our nation's history. According to congressional research as detailed yesterday on our show and in "The New York Times," oh, yes, eight of the guards were fired. Two others quit. Senior managers all replaced.

Tom Ridge is saying the words on the sleeve of his own book are just plain wrong. Again, key words here are his book. The words in the sleeve of his book are wrong. His book. We promised we'd drill down on this for you, and that's exactly what we're going to do. Stay with us.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the economy in a slump families are struggling to make ends meet but you don't have to sacrifice good nutrition. Where better to look for tips on healthy living on the chief than a five-star French chef.

CHEF ERIC RIPERT, LE BERNARDIN RESTAURANT: (INAUDIBLE) it's easy to find ways to eat for a budget which is not too expensive good food.

GUPTA: World renowned chef Eric Ripert says it's all about doing what works for you.

RIPERT: You can buy a chicken which is very inexpensive instead of buying the chicken already cut or cooked, you buy it whole, and, therefore, you save a lot of money. If you want something healthy and something inexpensive you have to think seasonally. If you want to eat tomatoes in January it's very expensive. Now if in January you want root vegetable, if you make a soup with a squash, it's going to be very inexpensive.

GUPTA: So how does this French chef extraordinaire stay healthy himself surrounded by top notch cuisine all day long?

RIPERT: Right before I leave the house I have a little bit of dark chocolate of very good quality. I leave my house around 10:00, and I walk through the streets of New York, takes about 20, 25 minutes. I think it keeps me in a certain good health and in shape.

GUPTA: The bottom line, says Ripert.

RIPERT: I'm a strong believer that you can do a lot of things in terms of eating which is you can eat butter, you can eat chocolate. You can have a little desert here and there, but, again, you have to be in the quantity at least controlled, and you have to compensate with some exercise.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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SANCHEZ: Joining us now is Wayne Slater. He's back, ladies and gentlemen. How are you doing?

WAYNE SLATER, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, DALLAS MORNING NEWS: I'm doing great. A little surgery, I'm glad to be back with you. Ready to go. We have politics in Texas and stuff to talk about. SANCHEZ: Man, I'll tell you while you've been away getting all healed up there has been a lot of stuff going on. The latest controversy, I want to get your input on this. This is former homeland security chief Tom Ridge, and I know you've written several books so you know about this book-writing thing. I'm in the middle of doing it for the first time myself, can't wait, but I'm puzzled by a man who writes a book and says in the book or suggests in the book, but it says on the sleeve of the book that he was pressured by people in the White House, or people in the administration to try and bring down the terror alert level.

Now he's on the record in several interviews he's done recently saying, no, I was misquoted, those weren't my words. And I'm sitting here Wayne thinking this is like a Fellini movie. It's your book, how can you be misquoted in your book? Can you help us understand this?

SLATER: Absolutely. I think you've got it exactly right, a Fellini movie I didn't quite think of it in that context. Isn't that awful when you're actually quoted your own words that you carefully wrote and then you say that's not really what I meant to say or that isn't what I said. The deal here is really I think a measure of how good the Bush administration and the Bushies who are trying to protect the legacy are at yanking back folks who may be talking out of school.

In this case here was Ridge clearly saying that he contemplated the prospect of politics playing a role in raising the threat level before the election and then when it shows up in print the Bush people are calling him and saying don't do that. This isn't the only time this has happened. Alberto Gonzales in the last two weeks told "The Washington Times" I think the investigation into torture is a good thing. I don't see a problem. Two days later he's suddenly has a new interview saying I think it's a bad idea. So we've seen this again and again where folks who are called to account for the exact quotes that they say. It's interesting.

SANCHEZ: But this is interesting. You know, there's a legal aspect to this. I think it's HR43, don't quote me on this, but I know there's a law, it's the same law that was used during Watergate to bring down some public officials saying you can't lie -- you can't pressure people, you can't make false assumptions. Now I'm not certainly saying that anybody is guilty of any stuff here but what he said in his book could be used, he could be forced to testify against some of those guys, right?

SLATER: Sure he could be. Absolutely he could, and I think the chances are halfway decent that it could happen, that if he's called before Congress. Basically his answers I understand now is I recognize the prospect that there was politics often played in the White House. It just didn't happen at this one instance where we raised the threat level. He's really trying to have it two ways. I think the interesting thing about Ridge is that he's being called to account, and in one sense he's not really backing off the words that he said, just the emphasis of it. It's a pretty neat trick.

SANCHEZ: Let me stop you there because you and I are going to continue. But here now is "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne?