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Motive For Georgia Mass Killings?; NFL Superstar Arrested; Massive Fire North of L.A.; Coup Anniversary Riot in Chile

Aired September 07, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: ... pastor who hates this president.

PASTOR STEVEN ANDERSON, FAITHFUL WORD BAPTIST CHURCH: I hate him. Break his teeth, o God!

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's him. He wants the president to die. And they back him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If people do evil in this world, things will happen to them.

SANCHEZ: Believe it or not, there's another would-be pastor in the news. This one abused an 11-year-old boy. And guess what? He's about to be ordained.

Shawne Merriman, the NFL's premier tackler, taken down by MTV star Tila Tequila. She says he tried to strangle her. And he's busted.

And incredible video coming in from the riots in Chile.

You will see it during your national conversation for Monday, September 7, 2009.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation. It is not a speech. And as usual, it's your turn to get involved.

We have got breaking news exclusive for you as we begin. There's a possible motive for the slayings of eight people, that bizarre mass murder in southern Georgia that we have been telling you about.

When we left you last Friday, if you will recall, Guy Heinze Jr. was the man who called police to report that he found his family murdered inside his house. He's the one who made that 911 call. Police were about to release him on bond for tampering with evidence.

It made it seem like he was not the suspect in the murders, not the suspect. In fact, he is just as we left you Friday. Heinze Jr. walks out of jail wearing an ankle bracelet. He's free on only $20,000 bond. Stay with me.

Ninety minutes later, 90 minutes later, he's arrested for allegedly murdering those eight people, including his own father. He had done it all along, that's what police are now saying. Now back to the motive, what we have been wondering. Was it drugs? Was it revenge? Well, police still aren't saying, but guess what? CNN's Sean Callebs, he has been the one reporter who's been all over this story since it started. He's been drilling down on it for us, and now I understand he may have some new information on what may have happened.

Sean, are you there?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rick, I'm here.

SANCHEZ: Fill us in. What did you learn today?

CALLEBS: Well, it's interesting. It may not have anything to do with revenge or drugs. It turns out that Guy Heinze Sr. -- now, he is the father of course who was killed allegedly by Guy Heinze Jr. -- had just come into a fairly significant amount of money, especially for that family, $25,000.

It all stems from a settlement for damage done to a mobile home that he owned. So, he was set to get $25,000. Now, the family just found out about this settlement the Thursday before Guy Heinze Sr. and these other seven people were killed.

I had a chance to speak with some family members. And they said -- and I'm quoting -- they "hope to God" that that isn't the motive, that somebody would take any life, let alone eight lives, for $25,000.

But to put it in perspective, we're talking about a very, very low- income family. You're talking about a group of 10 people who had been living in a cramped trailer, not for a short period of time, but the family tells me they had been living for a very long time there together.

Now, and as one family member told me, Rick, $25,000, they said, if you're talking about $25,000, you're talking about people who made or brought in about $10,000 a year. That's very significant money.

I did speak with the police chief of Glynn County, the investigating officer, Friday after held his news conference. I pulled him aside, didn't want to ask it at the news conference. And I said, look, have you heard Guy Heinze Sr. came into a significant amount of money? He said, yes, I have. And I said, do you have any comment? He goes, I'm not going to talk about that.

We tried to reach Ron Harrison, the attorney for Guy Heinze Jr. We had been unsuccessful all weekend and again unsuccessful today. The last I heard, last Wednesday, Harrison had denied his client had anything to do with these killings.

SANCHEZ: Is it true that he was arrested right after police had essentially let him go, and there was a possibility that, last Friday, he was going to be going to the funeral home? He was going to go to the funeral of the eight people that he's alleged to have killed?

CALLEBS: Yes, let me put this in perspective. The visitation, there were seven caskets, a lot of photographs, very emotional. And you had members of the Toler family where a father, four children died, and members of the Heinze family, who lost a relative there.

Now, what I'm told by the family, it's their understanding when Guy Heinze Jr. was released with that bracelet on his ankle, he was on his way to the visitation, when he apparently was told to turn around, come back to the jail. That is when he was served with the warrants for the eight arrests.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLEBS: And I talked to family members. And they said, look, if Guy Heinze Jr. would have showed up, that would have gotten ugly.

SANCHEZ: That's what I was just going to ask you. How would he have been received by those family members, which I'm sure were suspicious, even before police filed these charges?

CALLEBS: They never wanted to believe Guy Heinze Jr. had anything to do with this. But they found out at the visitation from the police chaplain that Guy Heinze Jr. was going to be arrested. So, they found out while they were there surrounded by loved ones they were going to lay to rest the next day.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

Lou Palumbo is a retired police officer. I believe we were able other have him join us as well.

Lou, are you there?

LOU PALUMBO, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE OFFICER: I'm here, Rick. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: There's a couple of things that I would like to take you through as well.

And, Sean, you stay there, because maybe you can clear some of these things up.

All right. We're still left with the possibility that one person killed eight people, possibly a ninth, if you include the 3-year-old who's still on life support. The fact that he's a family member, does that make it more possible for him to have done that, or are you still suspicious that he may have had an accomplice?

PALUMBO: Well, based on the information that I have reviewed from -- in the media about Glynn County indicating -- an official that indicated that these individuals were killed with a weapon, with a firearm, it makes it far more plausible that he may have done this alone.

Clearly -- and I go back to what we said the last time we met, Rick -- if anybody is subscribing to the notion that he was able to overcome all of these adults with a stick or a bat without anybody fighting him off, I would say that's near impossible. SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question about the police on this case.

I mean, it almost appears like police had been playing a game all along, almost like holding a carrot out in front of us, and then taking it away, and then holding it out again. At first, they made it appear that this guy was a suspect. Then they took that away and made it sound like he wasn't a suspect. And then, all of a sudden, they end up charging the guy who everybody was suspicious of from the very beginning.

Can you give us any explanation for why you believe they needed to do this, if you believe they needed to do this?

PALUMBO: Well, I don't really embrace the theory that they needed to do it, number one.

The only thing I did state was that it's understandable why investigators would like to keep the fruition of an investigation close to the vest. The less information you let out on the street, the less likelihood you are or there is to compromise your investigation.

The rest of this going back and forth or vacillating on their position with individuals, it bears no fruit. If you're not going to say anything, Rick, say nothing. But to go back and forth and play games, so to speak, I don't see any upside to that.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

It must have been -- Sean, are you still there?

CALLEBS: Yes. And let me add a couple of things there.

Firstly, when I talked to the family on Thursday, while I was there, they received a call from the police who said they wanted to talk to them later. And, according to the family, that is the first time that the authorities brought up the possibility of this financial settlement. So, they may have not known anything about that until a day before the arrest.

SANCHEZ: Lou Palumbo, Sean Callebs, my thanks to both of you. Good stuff. Way to go, Sean. Good reporting.

Shawne Merriman is the NFL's premier linebacker. There he is. Now he's busted for allegedly choking this woman. That's Tila Tequila. Have you heard of her? Yes, that Tila Tequila.

Now, take a look at this. Those are great white sharks swimming close to shore -- key words here, close to shore -- near Cape Cod. Have you ever seen anything like this before? They are closing the beaches, and we have got more.

Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

And reaction is pouring in swiftly to the story that we were just sharing with you. Of course, people are as shocked as we are, especially when you consider what Sean Callebs is now reporting, that the motive may have been $25,000.

Let's go to the Twitter board. And there you see it.

"To take the life of your father for $25,000, that's crazy. Rick, kill 29 family members for $25,000? What is wrong with him?"

Maybe it's what police are now trying to find out.

You want to know something that doesn't mix well with tequila? Let's see. There's vodka, for sure. Beer, most people would tell you. And then there's NFL superstar Shawne Merriman, who was arrested at 3:45 in the morning yesterday -- 3:45 in the morning -- for allegedly trying to strangle a very famous reality star.

The woman? Tila Tequila, who became an overnight sensation on her outrageous prime-time show. Tequila swore out a warrant charging the star defender with battery and false imprisonment. Both are felonies. But now there's more.

Merriman's lawyer says she was drunk and he was just looking out for her safety. Merriman, who was busted, but has since bonded out, says he will be practicing with his team today. Now, as for the National Football League, so far, no comment on this case.

Next, there's an amazing story of an infamous fire that wiped out 14 firefighters in Colorado, killed them all. People visit the site to learn from it. And I think you will, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We have got more on -- now on the story that we have been sharing with you.

Many of you are sending your responses quickly to this. Let's start over here with MySpace. It is an interesting comment. "He killed his family over $25,000? He's not only evil. He's lazy, too. You can get a job at McDonald's making that much. Sick."

And people are puzzled over here on Twitter as well. Let's go to Unger there on Twitter right at the bottom. There, you got it. Perfect. "How can somebody do this for money? Wouldn't you have some guilt killing your father and family members?"

Great question.

We take for granted in many ways that fires in the West will happen and will eventually be put out. It's what we seem to see, no matter how long it takes and how arduous the task.

What I want you to consider now is how unpredictable and how murderous these fires can be. I want to tell you a story. It's about 14 firefighters who were wiped out in Colorado. The fire that they were trying to battle has become infamous. Books have been written about this fire.

And firefighters, scholars travel there to understand how this could have happened.

My producer Michael Heard and I went there as well to understand the lessons of Storm King Mountain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Storm King is a killer. It's not the highest, but it may be the meanest. It's best known as a fire-breathing dragon, a mountain that provided the ultimate test of leadership and planning.

It's a killer. Brad Haugh was there. He knows the terror.

BRAD HAUGH, FIREFIGHTER: The only thing that clicked in my mind was the sound, just the roar. The incredible roar. This is not a deployable fire. This isn't your little grass fire that's going to burn over in 30 seconds. This is a roaring bastard that's going to eat you.

SANCHEZ: A "roaring bastard," as Haugh calls it, that would eventually bring him and 16 other elite firefighters to their knees. But back when it happened, neither he nor anyone else knew that this would become the most tragic wildfire for firefighters in U.S. history.

But why? How did these fire crews get trapped in the mountainous inferno? What really happened on Storm King Mountain?

The answer comes 11 years later from, of all places, a business school professor who's an expert on leadership. Michael Useem looked at each step in the moment of crisis and looked at who made the critical decisions so we can now better understand the catastrophe that appears to have been all but certain from the moment the fire crews arrived.

MICHAEL USEEM, PROFESSOR, WHARTON CENTER FOR LEADERSHIP AND CHANGE: It's very visual, very tangible to be here. And we can use it with a knowledge of what did happen, to literally have people stand where these decisions were made.

SANCHEZ: On July 6, 1994, 40 men and women were dropped on to this mountain peak. Their job, to put down what appeared to be a small, routine fire.

The first to parachute in was veteran firefighter Don Mackey. According to protocol, that was enough to make him team leader. However, Mackey was confused. Should he be in charge? Or should the local fire chief call the shots?

USEEM: And Don Mackey says to the man he's with, "By the way, Kevin, who's in charge here?" SANCHEZ: The professor points to that conversation as an example of ambiguity of leadership, that confusion that would set off a cascade of missteps. For example, no lookout was posted to check on the fire's spread. No one assigned to check weather reports to see if conditions had changed. No one knew they were, in fact, getting worse.

Useem says those are decisions that should have been made. Mackey didn't make them.

The most important decision Mackey did make carried huge risks. Even today, you can see what they did. Take a look.

This is a fire line they cut. It's a thick path to contain the spread of the fire. Mackey tells his crew to make the cut up the mountain, above the flames. It's a flawed strategy. That means if the fire spreads, the only escape route for his crew would be up. They'd have to climb the steep slope to try and outrun the flames.

USEEM: Just to give it a phrase, you've got to think strategically. Suppose the competition, suppose the traffic that you're following suddenly does something unpredictable, which is pretty predictable. Do you have enough space between you and the next car in front of you?

SANCHEZ: What happened next was unpredictable. For the fire crew, there simply wasn't enough space in front of them. In fact, the local weather service did change its forecast, but Mackey and his crew were operating blind.

The wind shift began blowing the flames uphill toward his crew and then it quietly jumped the fire line. Without a lookout, no one noticed.

Hot shot Brad Haugh.

HAUGH: Somewhere down in this area right below us, a log had rolled across the line, and it started another spot fire.

SANCHEZ: A spot fire that quickly convulsed into a blazing inferno. The ground vegetation so dry it was like a match hitting a gas grill. Instantly, a 100-foot wall of fire was stalking Mackey and the 16 members of his crew. The only way out was up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Amazing stuff.

When we come back, you're going to learn what happens when mere mortals, these firefighters, try to outrun a fire. It is not pretty. That's the next part of the story that we will share with you about Storm King Mountain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And as we watch the story of Storm King Mountain, there are people who are watching it story with us and hoping something that like that doesn't happen again. As a matter of fact, there's the response we got right at the very top.

"I hope we know enough now to make sure a Storm King never happens ever, ever again."

Well, guess what? What happened to Storm King is being used right now. I want to show you some video. I want to take the story from when that happened in the '90s to the present day, as I tell you about how fires can get completely out of control.

Well, here's what's happening right now north of Los Angeles. I want you to take a look at these pictures, because what was learned during Storm King Mountain is being employed right now. This is what firefighters, including hot shots and smoke-jumpers, just like the ones that died in Storm King Mountain, whose graves and memorials Michael Heard and I visited, that's what they're having to contend with right now.

They're calling this the Station fire. It was caused by arson. Already, two firefighters have been killed in this one. Seventy-eight families have lost their homes. And get this. Crews on the fire lines don't expect to have this contained until the middle of next week.

It's a little better than half contained now, we understand. But we're talking about a huge area, still something like 240 square miles. It's bigger than the city of Chicago. It's the 10th largest fire to hit California since the Forest Service shared those records and started keeping them. That was back in 1932.

So, that's why we're doing these specials on fires, stories that perhaps have never been known to you. Who were these men and these women who were burned to death on Storm King Mountain? And why did it happen? When we come back, part two.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: About this Storm King Mountain that we have worked so hard to bring you, I will tell you, just the trek up that mountain to tell the story was difficult, but very well worth it. Many of you are responding in kind.

Let's go first to MySpace.

"Wow. Just looking at that fire is intense. Terrible story."

And we have firefighters who are watching on this Labor Day. And we thank them for their Labor Day.

It's MomVsWild right there. It says: "Thank you for the story on Storm King Mountain. Firefighters don't get nowhere near enough attention and thanks."

We agree. Let's deal with that.

Firefighters from all over the country, they now travel to Storm King Mountain, as it's called in Colorado. They call it a sacred place. It is the subject of books, it is the subject of documentaries, and it is the place where 14 souls learned you can't outrun a fire, especially one that has called -- one that has gone through what's called a blowup.

What is it? Well, here's the rest of Storm King Mountain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice over): It may be the closest thing to hell on Earth, a rare, nature-driven event that occurs when conditions in a place like this become so dry, the air so super-heated, trees so constricted, they actually give off flammable gases and explode. Add to that 40 to 50-mile-an-hour wind gusts, a wildfire, and what you have are the ingredients for nature's own version of a megaton bomb.

It's called a blowup. And on July 6, 1994, this's exactly what happened near Glenwood Springs, Colorado, high up on Storm King Mountain.

Few have ever experienced, no less survived, a blowup. Brad Haugh can say he's done both.

HAUGH: As the wind is laying the fire down and driving it uphill, you've got all this super-heated air in here which is preheating that fuel even more to the point where pinon trees will almost explode. Just boom.

SANCHEZ: Seventeen firefighters were left with only one way out, straight up the mountain, against a steep incline. It was a race that was almost impossible to win, because while steep inclines slow down climbers, they can actually accelerate a fire. The odds were stacked against them.

(on camera): The firefighters were running uphill like I am right now. I ran about 10 feet at a gradient of 55 degrees. It took me three seconds. The fire would be moving that distance in just one second. That's why essentially it would be impossible for anyone to outrun it.

(voice over): Brad Haugh and two others were close enough to the summit to escape by throwing themselves over the top of the mountain.

(on camera): Did you jump over the...

HAUGH: Fell, ran, tumbled. Basically went out of control for probably 100, 200 feet down the hill. And crashed into a tree. And that's when I kind of looked around and realized -- it's like, "Well, where's everybody else?"

SANCHEZ (voice over): But everybody else was downhill, below the summit, possibly trapped, including Don Mackey. Had he waited too long to get his men out? Would he have been able to react faster if he had more information?

USEEM: Had he known that that wind was going to come, the forecast that it was, at that point, who knows? But he probably would have said, we've got to get out of here.

SANCHEZ: But even without the information, Mackey seemed to sense that something horrible was about to happen because seconds before the blow-up in what may have been a premonition, he ordered fire-jumper Sarah Doering (ph) to get out. Mackey saved her life. Is there a lesson there that we should follow our premonition, our instinctual reactions to things at times?

USEEM: Yes, it's a great point there because intuition, if it's well- formed, well-informed, practiced and built on experience is a good guide.

SANCHEZ: Mackey could have followed Sarah Doering (ph) and gotten himself out. But there were 13 other firefighters he needed to warn. And they were in the other direction where the fire was heading.

He made a decision, he wanted to be with his men.

USEEM: He did.

SANCHEZ: Even though it might cost him his life?

USEEM: It's virtue, it's honor and it's also what you might call servant leadership. The marine corps puts it this way -- mission first, you're second.

SANCHEZ: It was Mackey's final decision. And one that showed that while he may not have known he was a leader, he died like one, making the ultimate sacrifice.

This is the very top of storm king mountain. It's a place where 14 fire fighters lost their lives, all of it right there in that area behind me. It's now considered a sacred ground with firefighters from as far away as California coming here to leave tokens, to New York City. They come here, they say, to remember, to honor and they tell us as well to learn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Storm King Mountain for me individually is a very powerful place and its sacred ground, and there's a lessons to be learned out here about our business and the way we conduct ourselves and the decisions we have to make and the consequences of those decisions.

SANCHEZ: You could get those out of a book, though, couldn't you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not like you can here.

SANCHEZ: A visiting firefighter to like this professor and so many others before them come annually to climb Storm King. And when asked why, they answer, because it's there. That lessons are learned.

SANCHEZ: Unbelievable. By the way, I want to thank Leon Jobe and Michael Calloway. Those were the photographs that trekked all the way up to the top of that mountain with all that equipments so that we could bring you that story about Storm King Mountain.

Next, why our government may be in large measure responsible for these riots in Chile. Our government? I'll explain.

Also, if you haven't seen what's going on with these great white sharks near Cape Cod, have you seen these pictures? It's like nothing I've ever seen before. You have to stick around and watch this.

Once again, many of you are reacting to what was our lead story at the beginning of this newscast. In case you didn't hear what Sean Callebs reported exclusively at the top here, it is that there is a possibility that in that Brunswick story in Georgia we had told you about, the one person, the guy who dialed 911 who police are now saying is the killer of eight people, they're saying he did it for $25,000. That's what family members seem to be telling Sean Callebs. There was a $25,000 settlement that he wanted to be able to get his hands on and that he would kill his own family for that. Many of you have been appalled by this report. Let's go to my twitter board if we possibly can.

To kill your father for $25,000. The phrase why the blank would you do that? It doesn't even begin to cover it. I think most of our viewers agree with that.

Alright, there is something we did and by we, I mean our government, the United States of America, once took it upon itself to have the leader of a country removed simply because we didn't like him. His name? You can look it up if you don't know, Salvador Allende. He was democratic re-elected and very popular. But not so popular, not very much liked by Richard Nixon or Henry Kissinger who thought he was too much of a lefty. Allende was elected in 1970. The U.S. backed coup to remove him took place in 1973. The riots which took place to protest what we did, well, they've continued almost every year since it happened. Here is the latest one.

It's become almost common place. By the way, if you decide to Google Allende, you might want to Google Augusto Pinoche, while you're at it, and then you might really find out why some of these folks are still so angry. Despite the rocks, the bottle of the cocktails, the tear gas, the water canon and the riot police, no one was injured during Friday's fightings.

Next, a sports brawl to end all sports brawls. National championship night in Canadian lacrosse turns into a ten-minute battle Royale. Photos and all the lokalokaloka (ph). Next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We've been reporting to you about what happened in California with these fires. There's two firefighters who have died. One of them, his wife was pregnant and she was going to have a baby in just a couple of weeks just before he died. In fact, a lot of people have been responding to that after watching Storm King Mountain. Watch this one.

"Holy cow", on My Space, someone writes. "I hope they catch the person who started the fire. One firefighter that died in fires was a sad story. His wife was pregnant and he turned down another job because he didn't want to move her and then he passes, I cried." We thank you for that.

As a guy who grew up near the ocean, I don't get too freaked out by sharks or stories about sharks that often we in the media have to do. I mean if you anchor the news on television, you're constantly doing shark stories. Most of the time, I'm like, you have big deal. Our first story in photos today is about sharks. And guess what? This one does freak me out.

Yes, Dios Mio is right. This is not just any shark, folks. This is a great white shark. And you want to know what really makes this story bizarre? Look how close it is right there to the shoreline. You see the shoals right there? This is not the way out in the ocean where they're supposed to be. That is extremely shallow water right there off the coast of Cape Cod. And those are massive great white sharks. There are as many as five of them, we're being told. They are now closing beaches in the area and they're keeping people away. Great whites are rare in New England, and the last person killed by a shark there was in 1936. I cannot stop looking at that picture. That is huge.

Lacrosse players are said to be -- it's like a milder version of hockey players, right? That's what I thought. Wrong. Think again. This fight at the first game of the Canadian lacrosse championships went on for ten minutes. Going at it right there. For Canadian's viewing pleasure, the Salmonbellies and the Excelsiors, that was the name of the two teams, just duked it out. They kept on going. They say the Salmonbellies really started the whole thing and the Excelsiors would have none of it. Until both benches cleared and there they go, walloping one another while they're trying to hold on to one another. One of the General Managers said, quote, "It's part of the game, it's in the rules, they're allowed to fight." Yes, that about explains it.

Alright, let's take you to the Philippines now. Almost 1,000 passengers were on the Super Ferry when this happened. The coast guard says that the ship relayed a distress signal around 2:00 a.m. and the passengers were aroused from their sleep as the ship suddenly began to tilt. Look at the picture. Imagine that. Here's the good news. It appears enough ships responded to the scene and were able to rescue most passengers by dropping those orange raft that you saw right there. Here's the bad news -- as many as ten people were not rescued. They drowned.

GAYLE BEHREMS, PROTESTER: When people are preaching from a pulpit about praying for the death of anyone, our President?

SANCHEZ: This protestor denounces a hateful pastor who preaches the death of the President and says it's what God wants. His God. But there are others who support the idea that President Obama should die and they're going to tell you why.

This is one we broke the story on for you. Let's bring you the information that's coming in to us now. This is from Daytona Beach, you see the pictures coming in right there. This is a Surf Shop. You know how popular those Surf Shop there on Daytona Beach. We don't know exactly which one this is, but we know that the fire is fully engulfed and firefighters have arrived there and are trying to put this thing out as we speak. Obviously we'll keep tabs on it. You can see some of the hotels off the beach there in Daytona. If we get any more information on it, we will certainly bring it to you as we go.

Meanwhile, here's a story that we've been following you for since last week. Since then, it's become a National talker. There's a movement again on this Pastor who says that he hates President Obama and he prays for him to die. The temper (ph) is preacher is himself now the target of protestor's ire. While his parishioners trying to protect him.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's honk for real love, not hate. That's the message these people are trying to get across through words and music. A protest in response to this comment made by Pastor Steven Anderson during one of his sermons.

PASTOR STEVEN ANDERSON (voice-over): I hate Barack Obama. You say, you just mean you don't like what he stands for. No, I hate the person. No way, you just don't like his policies. No, I hate him. Break his teeth, Oh God. In his mouth. You know, as a snail which melt it, let him pass away.

CALLEBS: A church teaching not sitting too well with people.

BEHREMS: When people are preaching from a pulpit about praying for the death of anyone, our President? There's some insanity.

MICHELLE STENER, PROTESTER: He's not abusing his freedom of speech, but I think he is abusing the freedom of the pulpit.

CALLEBS: We went to talk with Pastor Anderson in between services today. The cameras weren't allowed inside, but he did poke his head out for a moment to give us a quick comment about the love and peace rally going on outside his storefront church.

ANDERSON: I'm not changing anything I've said, absolutely not.

CALLEBS: You want the president to die of cancer?

CALLEBS: Do you hate president Obama?

ANDERSON: Absolutely.

CALLEBS: Pastor Anderson wouldn't say much, but one of his followers took the time to talk to us.

HERB RICE ANDERSON, FOLLOWER: Well, I don't agree with everything Pastor Anderson says. That's his own belief, his own thing. To me I don't care about Obama either way.

CALLEBS: Obama or anybody else, these people just don't want the word of hate being preached in church.

BEHREMS: We're just here to stop the hatred because it's about peace.

CALLEBS: How was the sermon today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Real good. You guys ought to go. People do evil in this world, and things will happen to them, OK. Obama says, God is a God of judgment.

SANCHEZ: People are reacting to this as well. This is some of the reaction we're getting on My Space. People do anything in God's name nowadays. It is sad that others follow them and do not use their own brains in determining the good from the bad. Unbelievable. All right.

Staying on the subject of Pastors. This story is also disturbing. This man once abused an 11-year-old boy. Following me here? This man once abused an 11-year-old boy, and now he wants to become an ordained minister. And in fact the person who has decided that he should be an ordained minister speaks and says, yes, he should. Who is that? It's the present pastor of the church. I want to know what you think. I've been asking you throughout the day. I'll share your comments, and you'll see the story both coming up next.

Well, I'll tell you a lot of folks reacting to that one we just did a little while ago. The question is, can a convicted sex offender change? Before I show you this next story about this, I want you to watch part of my interview Friday. This is a man who I interviewed who was convicted of sexually molesting boys. I wanted to know from him, and this is the reason I interviewed him, despite the fact that I was holding my nose while I was talking to him, I wanted to know from him point blank if he still has the urge to sexually molest boys. Watch this part. You're sitting in a park and a young boy walks by.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, SEX OFFENDER: That's right.

SANCHEZ: You still attracted to them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, SEX OFFENDER: Yes, but what comes up at the same time is a message that I've trained myself to bring up every time that happens, and the message is to me and the message is you're in danger. Right now at this moment when you're feeling that urge, you're in danger, and what that triggers me to do instead of go after the child is to find a way to put my attention elsewhere so I get out of danger.

SANCHEZ: So, for the record, your answer is yes, you're still physically attracted to that young boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, SEX OFFENDER: Yes. That will always be there, but the urge will not be over powering.

SANCHEZ: That will always be there. That's what he said, right? All right. Now I want you to watch this story. This is about a Kentucky man who also was convicted of molesting a young boy. He is on the verge of becoming ordained and a pastor. Now running the church wants us to welcome him in.

Today Refuge Church proclaims that everyone is welcome, and that's probably what attracted Mark Hourigan. Hourigan was charged back in 1998 with sodomizing, sexually abusing and intimidating an 11-year-old boy. He pleaded guilty to a lesser charge, served time in prison and agreed not to serve as a leader in any church where he would have contact with children, but Hourigan probation is over. Even if the sex offender registration will never end.

PASTOR RANDY MEADOWS, CITY OF REFUGE WORSHIP CENTER: But us, as a society we can't forget. We can't move on, and I preach in this church to try to allow God to move you on to a better life.

SANCHEZ: Pastor Randy Meadows says the Lord has touched Hourigan's heart. Hourigan now leads pray and worship at the church and he will become an ordained minister next Sunday.

MEADOWS: If we show people that someone with marks background, marks past can become someone that will be productive in society then who else could reach out to other people but Christ's people.

SANCHEZ: But former church Deacon Kevin Pickerrell says the man was never straightforward about his past until he was confronted.

KEVIN PICKERRELL, FORMER CHURCH DEACON: So, I have, of course, my piece of paper that I done my research on and hand it, had to him and said this is the problem, and his reaction is, oh, you found out.

SANCHEZ: Pickerrell fears Hourigan (ph) may be tempted by children who gather at the church for weekly Sunday school. He worries he could re offend.

PICKERRELL: Maybe he'll hit in the category of the low percentage that doesn't, but I don't want to take the chance.

SANCHEZ: Pastor Meadows says Hourigan will sign an agreement not to minister to children.

MARK HOURIGAN, SEX OFFENDER BECOMING MINISTER: God is a God of love and forgiving God and I'm doing what he's telling me to do, and if that's not popular, well, Jesus loves me.

SANCHEZ: That's interesting. A lot of you guys are reacting to this. Let's start over here on the right. There's something else I want to share with you, because there's been an interview with the pastor now. Here's what you're saying so far.

"I don't care if he did his time. Once a pedophile, always a pedophile. I say, put him on a small island by himself, and he can preach to the birds. Absolutely no contact with children."

Matthew says, "Hell no."

Denise says "no way".

"Probably not", says Gloria. "Too many people who are so-called Christians think as long as they have found Jesus all past transgressions should be forgiven. To me, that's far from adequate."

And then Kate is being a little more sublime. She says "heck no". Let's go over here now to the twitter board and let's see rugged cowboy is weighing in as well and says, look, a leopard never changes his spots and then downtown bedrock says he can be forgiven, but he can cannot lead the flock. The bible is very clear in this area.

All right. Now you probably want to hear what this preacher has to say himself. Here's the other part of this story. Just last night this want-to-be pastor appeared for the very first time on "CNN". Here's what he had to say.

MARK HOURIGAN, REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER: I've learned that -- that I have to change the way that I think in order to change my actions and my behaviors, and I've learned a lot of things as far as what situations not to place myself in, and when I'm having problems on emotional level to seek out counsel from other people such as my pastor or other members of the church.

SANCHEZ: Tough situation. A lot of folks have been talking about this. The other thing that we want to bring you up to date on is the very big story that we broke at the very beginning of this newscast. "CNN" has learned exclusively through Sean Callebs our correspondent that in fact it's now starting to look like the motive for the killing of eight people in Brunswick, Georgia, was $25,000, a $25,000 settlement that apparently was coming to one of the victims who was killed. There is Sean Heinze, interestingly enough Jr., I could say. Among the people he killed was his own father. And now that was mystifying police by the way there is one person in the hospital on life support 3 years old among the victims.

(VIDEO GAP)