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New Locations Searched in Terror Probe; Eating Well on a Budget

Aired September 18, 2009 - 15:00   ET


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, there is another story that we're following for you on this day.

You have been talking about the campus of Yale University, the attack there, your e-mails, your tweets, your comments on my blog, almost all of you speaking with one voice, shock at the brutality of Annie Le's killing.

But I'm hearing you wonder if the same thing could happen where you work, for example? Guess what? The answer is, yes, it could.

And another thing. You know how police are calling this workplace violence? What about the possibility of a personal or an emotional relationship between this man, Raymond Clark, and Annie Le, who was about his same age?

Pat Brown is a criminal profiler who believes that this case is about a man's obsession over a woman.

Pat, thanks so much for being with us.


SANCHEZ: I heard you say that no one just snaps like this. What do you mean?

BROWN: Yes. What happens in these instances, people like to jump and just say, the guy snapped. He was a great guy yesterday, and he's always been a great guy. Nobody has ever thought a thing wrong with the guy and suddenly he just decides to kill a woman.

Now, most of us can look at ourselves and say, I can't imagine any circumstance that I would do such a thing, kill somebody, except maybe if they were in the middle of raping my child. I might shoot them in the head, if they were in the process of doing it.

But I'm not just going to go, oh, gee, you didn't deliver my mail on time and kill the mailman, unless there is something seriously wrong with me. So, is isn't about mice? This isn't about the cleanliness of a cage. This is about his problem with a woman, I don't know whether Annie Le in particular or women in general or both. It is not about the mouse.


SANCHEZ: I will tell you, either way, it just sickens me, because when something like this happens the people they're attacking are our mothers, my daughter, my wife. And it's incredible.

I have been drawn to the fact -- and I'm wondering what your take is on this -- I have been drawn to the fact in this case that he had sent her a message on the very same day he met her, which happens to be just a couple of days before she was scheduled to get married. What do you make of that?

BROWN: Well, we're not going to know all of the actuality of everything unless something comes out that we don't know because he's not going to tell us the truth. And his defense lawyer is not going to tell us the truth.

But my guess is here, we have seen some issues in the past, and we don't have them all substantiated. We have some -- the ex- girlfriend in high school said that he forced sex on her, and she was terrified of him. We have heard some stories of neighbors that he is very controlling of the woman he's with.

We have heard people from the lab say he's extremely controlling. My guess is, he wanted to get Annie in that room with him, possibly because he has a thing for her and she was about to go get some another guy.

Now, what happens with some of these people, if they're psychopathic, if they're a psychopathic male, for example, is they have to pick on somebody smaller. And in this case it would happen to be women.

So, women -- I can't make it in life myself. I'm sort of a loser. So, therefore, anybody who is better than me, especially a woman, really upsets me. Now, here's a brilliant, bright woman. She's like the trophy, the cheerleader, and I'm not going to get her. She doesn't give me the time of day. I have been thinking about her. She never thinks about me.

Annie Le doesn't have to even know that this is going on in his little mind. But this may be right before her wedding, he was just angry. That's just great. See, somebody else always gets the gorgeous girl. I don't.

SANCHEZ: What you're talking about is almost like ownership, like property. This is something I want. I own it. If I can't have it, I'm going to destroy it. That's really scary. It leads us to this whole notion of fatal attraction. And since we know that he did send her in fact a message saying he wanted -- he set up a meeting with her...


BROWN: Right.

SANCHEZ: ... which makes us think there was something more going on here.

BROWN: Well, most people are trying to say he's just angry about the cleanliness of cages. Well, first of all, this is his job. He's supposed to clean the cages. Secondly, there's got to be lots of other people in the department he could be angry at.


BROWN: So, why is he picking on this girl?

SANCHEZ: I don't buy it either. You're absolutely right. I can't possibly buy that this man snapped because he was angry because the floor was dirty or the cages were dirty. I don't buy it.


BROWN: And another interesting thing, Rick. Back in high school, he joined an Asian club. Now, if he is psychopathic, he is probably not doing that for charitable reasons. My guess is he joined that club because that's where you find Asian women.

And there are some men in this country who think that the American-born woman is too tough, too in-your-face. And they think Asian women are going to be sweeter, nicer, more -- they can control them better. My guess he went there to find women.

Now, it's interesting Annie Le happens to be Asian. And so there he is with another girl, his little prize that he wants and he can't have it. And to men like this, just like serial killers -- that's why serial killers kill woman, too. They're losing in society and they say, look, I'm losing and I'm going to prove myself.

And when you're strangling that woman, as Ted Bundy said, you never respected me. You didn't give me the time of day, but when you're looking in their eyes as you're choking them, they know you're God. And you're going to take away their life.

Annie Le is not going to have all those things she thought she would have because I'm going to take them from her.



BROWN: That's the kind of anger they have.

SANCHEZ: It makes sense, especially when you take us through the strangling as an act.

I have got to ask you something, because we're going to do another story in just a little bit about the story we're following in Georgia. This is another case of a man police say beat up a woman, an African-American woman.

This whole idea of men beating women, those of us who have been taught and raised to never lift a hand against a woman, explain this to us. What is this all about? Why would they do that?

BROWN: Well, it's interesting. I think it's just the human condition.

I think all humans, if they don't feel good about themselves, want to take it out on somebody else. But you can't take it out on people who are the same size as you. So, men take it out on women. Women take it out on their little children.

And that's why we have women who kill one baby after the other, because that's what they can kill or they kill patients or somebody who they can manage. So some people say, well, hey, that woman, she just hates men. I had that e-mail already come in today.

I'm like, no, there's a lot of wonderful men out there who treat women extremely well.


BROWN: But when certain men feel like they can't measure up, they will befriend men. Like, from what I hear, Ray Clark was just wonderful to the guys he was around when he was in high school, but the woman he was with, says, hey, wait a minute, no, he forced sex on me. I was scared of him.


BROWN: So, the men, he's sucking up to, but the women, he says, they should kowtow to me and how come they're not doing it?

SANCHEZ: That's a fascinating conversation.

Pat Brown, thanks for taking the time, as a criminologist, as a criminal profiler, to take us through this.

BROWN: Thanks, Rick.


REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MINORITY WHIP: The Democrats in nine short months have made us look like Ebenezer Scrooge on welfare.


SANCHEZ: There you go. It's called the Values Voters Summit. We're covering this summit today. It's an important and certainly admirable event. But is it really more of a political event? I think that's a question that should be asked. So, we will ask it.

Also she was viciously beaten in front of her small daughter. Now new developments. This is a story I mentioned just a while ago with Pat Brown. There are new developments in what authorities are investigating as a hate crime on an African-American woman at a Cracker Barrel. We will be all over it.

Also, remember the after-show today after the show. It's at 4:00.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

I want you to take a look at this guy right here. Go ahead and put him up, Rog. There he is. That's Troy West. He's accused of beating and screaming racial slurs at a woman, a mom, when she asked him to be careful when he pushed the door and almost hit her child, her daughter, her 7-year-old.

This was at a Cracker Barrel restaurant just outside of Atlanta. Well, reporters have been flocking to West's hometown in southern Georgia talking to the locals there. And you're not going to believe what one man who says that he's West's cousin had to say.

This is going to startle you somewhat, take you back. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you asked me why he hit the woman, if you ask me, he was provoked. That's my -- I think he was. Now, it might not come out that way, but I have never known Troy to hit anybody.

QUESTION: But does that make it OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's everybody's own deal on that. I mean, I don't know what she done, but if a woman puts herself in a man's shoes, sometimes, I would say yes.


SANCHEZ: Wow. If a woman puts herself in a man's shoes, sounds a lot like the conversation we were having just moments ago with Pat Brown. And you got to love the swing.

Shortly after victim Tasha Hill and her attorney sat right here and talked to me on this show yesterday, Cracker Barrel has given us a new statement. And we thank them for it.

Take a look at this map. Cracker Barrel has restaurants in 41 states across the United States. And it says it has banned Troy West from all of its eateries for life. How they will do this, we don't know, but Cracker Barrel goes on to say it will continue to cooperate with authorities, because -- quote -- "We want justice to be served quickly."

The next helping is a court hearing next Thursday. Coming up next, I'm going to serve the truth up to the perpetrator of what is really a bald-faced lie. FOX News, I hope that you're listening.


SANCHEZ: And I welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.

All right, there's something that I got to tell you now. If you watch this show every day, as I mentioned a while ago, you know that I usually don't suffer fools gladly, especially when it comes to the fools who perpetuate falsehoods.

Well, today, thousands of you flipped through the pages of "The Washington Post" only to come across a lie so bold and so upsetting that, frankly, I'm just not going to sit here in silence and allow my craft or my news operation to be unfairly maligned, because enough is enough.

And, yes, I'm talking to you, FOX News, you, who claim to be fair and balanced. At what, I wonder? You know, I don't know, but I have got a couple ideas.

FOX News (INAUDIBLE) color ad today. It asks: "How did ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN miss this?" They are referring to the picture there of the tea party protest in the nation's capital last Saturday.

They are saying that we missed this story. They are saying we did not cover this story. They are using a lie to try and divide people into camps. And, you know, Americans are starting to get tired of this.

Look at the bottom of the ad there, where it says, "We cover all the news."

Really? You do? What, we don't?

You know, that's an offense to myself and to my colleagues, who risk their lives for our viewers in Iraq and Afghanistan and around the world to bring the news. You're actually telling people that we didn't cover a rally on Washington. Really?

Rog, roll the tape.


T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Tea party march and rally happening in Washington.

Our Paul Steinhauser is there with what appears to be a whole lot of friends gathering around you now.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And about two hours from now, they're going to march behind us down Pennsylvania Avenue to the U.S. Capitol, and that's where they will gather, at the west front of the Capitol.


SANCHEZ: OK, what was that? Was that like made-up video? Am I crazy or did I just watch CNN's Paul Steinhauser covering the story?

You want more? Here's more.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to check in again with CNN's Kate Bolduan live at the Capitol.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we came down because we heard that there were actually so many people still stuck on Pennsylvania Avenue here trying to make it, too. As you can see, the people are all still coming from Freedom Plaza.


SANCHEZ: All right, that was CNN's Kate Bolduan. Here's another one.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: We're joined now by CNN Radio Capitol Hill correspondent Lisa Desjardins.

LISA DESJARDINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What do you think of Congressman Joe Wilson?


DESJARDINS: See? So there are people here who very strongly support Congressman Wilson, Fredricka, and many of them are right here.


SANCHEZ: I don't know. Call me crazy, but that sure looked like our CNN Radio's Lisa Desjardins.

One last one from our own Jim Spellman, who followed and covered 30 rallies, 30 rallies along the Tea Party Express route, from coast to coast the last couple of weeks. Here it is.


HOLMES: CNN all platform Jim Spellman traveled with the Tea Party Express as it made its way across the country.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The bulk of the people that are there for low taxes, less government control, but there really is an element that's got these kind of outlandish conspiracy theories about death camps about this takeover, people comparing President Obama to Hitler. And it really is a sizable thread. It's not just a couple of people on the edges.


SANCHEZ: All right, I want you to see more proof now. And this is really just an unbelievable coincidence that I want you to see.

You see that picture in the ad that they took out? OK, pay attention to that picture right there on the right. That's the ad that they took out saying we didn't cover the event. All right, now, keep an eye on that picture right there. You see the Canadian flag? That's on their ad. You see the Canadian flag right there at the bottom?

All right, let me show you this. You see the thing on the left now? That's our tower cam shot of the event that we used repeatedly throughout those shows.

Funny how you can say that we didn't cover an event by using that picture, that picture that looks an awful lot like our tower cam shot, doesn't it? And you used it in your ad saying we didn't cover the story.

By the way, if you want even more proof of our coverage, maybe you should just watch your own shows. Here's a good one maybe you should watch. There is a show on FOX News. It's called "The O'Reilly Factor." You heard of it?

Here's Bill O'Reilly doing a segment called "Reality Check."


BILL O'REILLY, HOST, "THE O'REILLY FACTOR": CNN, as we mentioned, covered the anti-Obama protests, of course, but ran into a little trouble.


SANCHEZ: CNN covered the event. There it is. This is Bill O'Reilly showing us covering a story you say we didn't cover. Let me give that to you again. That was Bill O'Reilly showing CNN's coverage of a story that FOX News says we didn't cover. Hmm. Can you see -- can you say reality checkmate?


O'REILLY: CNN, as we mentioned, covered the anti-Obama protests, of course, but ran into a little trouble.


SANCHEZ: Here's the fact. We did cover the event. What we didn't do is promote the event, just like when thousands marched on Washington to protest the war in Iraq, we covered it as well, probably less than we covered this event. But we didn't promote it.

Bottom line is, we do cover the news. And we did extensively cover this event. We didn't promote the event. That's not what real news organizations are supposed to do. We covered the event.

I would invite you to look into that distinction between those two words, promote and cover. Cover is kind of like a fair and balanced way of doing things. You get it? You might want to look into that.

It's about letting Americans make up their own minds. Let me cut to the chase. When thousands of Americans showed up at the nation's capital to protest big government, we covered it with four correspondents, two satellite trucks, multiple live interviews, lawmakers on the record, and conversations with attendees.

By the way, we put a call into FOX News for a comment, and we expect an apology. But we're still waiting.

Let me address the FOX News Network now perhaps the most current way that I can, by quoting somebody who recently used a very pithy phrase, two words. It's all I need: You lie.


SANCHEZ: Wow, a lot of response from you already. That didn't take very long. Let's go to our Twitter board, we possibly can.

"Not only did I watch the tea party on CNN. I went to D.C. rally, had no problem finding a parking space. Crowd small."

"CNN needs to put out an ad. How did FOX News miss all the other networks that covered that same news?"

And then let's go over here to MySpace. Then we will get another one for you. "Hey, Rick, nail them. A lack of integrity is so pervasive in our culture and is a trend that should be reversed. Many people take their cues from media outlets. I commend your efforts to raise the bar."

My thanks to you. We will continue to share your responses.

There's a saying that goes something like this. When you have got a man down, just keep kicking. Today, ACORN is continuing to get kicked. In fact, now it's getting down right brutal. Republican Senator Mike Johanns has attached amendments slamming ACORN to spending legislation that before had nothing to with ACORN. And the amendments passed overwhelmingly.

I myself peppered, prepared and executed what was a very confrontational interview with the CEO of ACORN, where Bertha Lewis clearly took issue with some of the questions I asked and responded in kind.


SANCHEZ: The video is still there, Bertha. And we still see these people doing and saying these things. So you could say anything you want to say about your attackers. But, in the end, the evidence is what's hurting the credibility of your organization. How do you respond to that?

BERTHA LEWIS, CEO, ACORN: Well, I will repeat it again, in case you didn't understand me the first time.


LEWIS: These people were terminated. We took immediate action. Regardless, it is unacceptable and never met our professional standards.


SANCHEZ: All right, it's hard for me as a journalist to not press her after seeing the obvious, obvious lapses of judgment and ethics by her workers caught on camera, telling a filmmaker posing as a pimp how to hide his money from the government.

And the proverbial kicks to the head have come in a steady stream. Yesterday, here's another example. House Republicans attached an ACORN amendment to the student loan bill, again a bill with no relationship in the past to ACORN. But look who joined in, liberals like Patrick Kennedy, John Conyers, George Miller, Patrick Kennedy? All three voted against ACORN, along with 169 other Democrats.

Earth to ACORN. Fact is your days are starting to look like they could possibly be numbered. Those are the facts. That's the news.

But, as wrong as ACORN's workers were in that videotape and with as much heat as they're getting, as much money as they're losing, should we not also ask questions of the filmmakers who seem to have bought them down? That's an important part of the story as well, questions like where is the rest of that video that ACORN says will actually exonerate them, to be fair, questions like could you have possibly have misrepresented yourself as something you were not in those videos?

Why did you report an account of a murder without checking it out? These are all things that would have cost me my job had I done them working here at this news organization. In fact, the network that is showing this video the most actually castigated Dan Rather for doing something that could be argued was perhaps even less than this.

But here's the final and most important question. If you stand by your decisions, filmmakers, your reporting and your video, then why won't you come forward and answer questions? We have invited you. The picture of ACORN workers giving illegal advice is wrong. And it has as such been reported. But one can't help but to begin to wonder what else may be wrong with this picture.

My blog is

When I come back, the Values Voters Summit, we will be talking about that and talking to one of the speakers at the organization.

Stay with us.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

When these folks get together, they don't merely have a summit -- have a meeting, I should say. They hold a summit. I kind of messed that up.

Beginning today in Washington, it's the Values Voter Summit. From the name alone, you would guess that these are folks who vote on the basis of, well, values, right? But what kind of values?

Ken Blackwell is speaking at the summit. He's one of the guys who's invited to speak, and I guarantee you he's going to do a fine job. He serves on the committee of the National Rifle Association. He's a senior fellow at the Family Research Council, and he's a former Republican candidate for governor of Ohio. And I think his mother would be proud of me now because I gave him all the props there he could expect.

Mr. Blackwell, how are you, sir?

KENNETH BLACKWELL, FORMER OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Rick, it's good to be with you. I'm doing just fine.

SANCHEZ: What do we mean by values? What is a values summit?

BLACKWELL: Well, look, this -- our democracy, our culture is based on some fundamental values, one of the most salient being freedom.

And, so, when you have freedom at risk from the size, the growth and intrusion of government, you have a pivotal values issue that should be discussed. And you have a clash of values between those who believe in big government and those who believe in the -- the individual being at the center of our society.

That's a discussion that should be discussed civilly and clearly.

SANCHEZ: I agree. I agree. I don't think -- in fact, I can't -- I would -- hard-pressed to find anybody who listened to you say that who wouldn't say, you know what? I like that guy. That makes sense. That's what we need to do in this country.

So, given that, let me ask you the next question. Is this values summit a political event?

BLACKWELL: Well, that's a good question. It's a political event with a small P. It's not a political event in terms of political parties. But political engagement...

SANCHEZ: Are you sure it's not a small R? Because, man, I'm telling you, Mr. Blackwell, I'm looking at this thing, and I don't see any Democrats on here. I only see Republicans.

I mean, I -- I got the name there.

BLACKWELL: Well, that's..

SANCHEZ: It's one after the other. I mean, look at this, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, Sarah Palin, Ron Paul, Tim Pawlenty, Mike Patton, Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, yourself. I mean, I could go on and on and on.

BLACKWELL: Let me push back a little bit.

SANCHEZ: All right. BLACKWELL: The fact is that the issue of who the presidential candidate will be for the Democrats in 2012 is a settled issue, unless you know something that I don't know.

SANCHEZ: Well, it all depends on how this guy does in the next couple of years, I guess, but go on.

BLACKWELL: And on the other hand, the Republicans are vetting candidates. Last year, in 2008, all of the candidates from all of the parties were invited. The Democrats chose not to come, but it wasn't because they weren't offered around opportunity to speak to...

SANCHEZ: That's fair.

BLACKWELL: And so that's -- that's where we are on that.

SANCHEZ: That's good. I mean, listen, I'm glad -- I'm glad you're telling me that. Would you think that an organization like this, which is -- I've got to tell you, you are talking about things that I agree with -- and I think that I can speak for the great majority of Americans when they say they agree with a lot of what you're talking about, why is it in this country that we talk about these things in groups? Why do we segregate ourselves in social atmospheres, in churches all over this country? Why can't we come together and resolve things, if you know what I mean?

BLACKWELL: Well, I know exactly what you mean. And all of the town halls that we have sponsored have been open. We haven't just extended invitations to people who agree with us. We engage in civil debate all across the country, in neighborhoods after neighborhoods. And I would -- I would suggest that this is not the only forum in which these big policy issues are going to be discussed and whether or not the government should take over large segments of our economy.

SANCHEZ: But you think people -- but you think -- I don't mean to interrupt. But before we're out of time, I just want to ask you: do you think it's uncomfortable for people?

Let's suppose I'm a -- I'm a die hard conservative Republican, and I go to church, for example. And on my way in, I'm looking at bumper stickers, and all of them are saying they're pro-Obama, lefty this, Obama that, Democratic Party. I would almost feel a little uncomfortable. Much the same way somebody who has different opinions than the ones or different opinions -- or maybe isn't a Republican would feel uncomfortable walking into a town hall rally where you see these people holding signs that are showing the president as Hitler, et cetera.

I'm always saying that we create barriers for ourselves, do we not?

BLACKWELL: Well, I don't -- I don't think so. I've crisscrossed this country and I've stood in churches where the parishioners were predominantly Democrat. It is how we comfort ourselves, how we engage people. These are big issues. And they can't be decided in little silos. And so -- look, change is affected in this country in terms of public policy, either in the legislative bodies, in the courts, in direct action on the streets or in the engagement of the hearts of our fellow citizens. And that's where we at the Family Research Council come in. We believe in engaging folks in the conversation that matters -- that the conversations that matter in this country to engage their hearts.

SANCHEZ: Well, I tell you, I think you and I agree. Most Americans agree on more issues than they disagree with. But somehow, we create these polarized groups where we keep each other from discussing these things and talking them out and I think when guys like you and maybe some of the other leaders there get together, like Mr. Bennett for example, and we all do this, we probably end up being a heck of a lot better country -- don't you think?

BLACKWELL: I think -- I think you're absolutely right, and I have found that on a personal level. When I engage Bishop Harry Jackson who's a registered Democrat, we can disagree on some issues, but we find consensus on some big issues.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: And that's what we have to do all across the country.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely. And I'm with you, amen, 100 percent.

Kenneth Blackwell, it's always a pleasure. Good to see you. Say hi to your mom.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Rick. All the best. And will do, take care.

SANCHEZ: Take care.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come back! There's a baby in there!


SANCHEZ: Oh, what a story. We showed you this video when it happened in July. It's a pair of brothers saving a five-year-old from a burning SUV. We've got a new development in the story that we're going to be sharing with you.

Also, the young lab researcher killed days before her wedding. We're going to update the latest on our top story for us. That's next. Stay with us.


SANCHEZ: All right, just now, I'm being told -- as a matter of fact, as you're coming to me, I'm hearing my producer talking in my ear and he's telling me that this terror case that we've been reporting on since Monday, which began in parts of Queens and in New York, has escalated to the point where we've been reporting on it in the last couple of days on new activity taking place in Denver, as in even more raids.

And now, there's breaking news on this and Jeanne Meserve has got it for us.

Jeanne, what do you? What's going on with this story?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, Najibullah Zazi, who is the principal person they've been talking to here in Denver, is still inside this FBI building behind us with his attorney. This is the third day he's been in there.

A little change in pace today. On previous days, they've gone in the front door. They've taken some questions from reporters as they've gone in. Today, they brought them in by vehicle into a sally port and into the building. No opportunity to ask them any questions.

Meanwhile, CNN has learned that, in fact, this investigation did begin before Mr. Zazi took a trip to New York this weekend or trip that triggers searchers in Queens and in the suburbs of Denver here. It turns out the FBI was going around talking to owners of storage facilities.

One of our affiliates, KUSA, talked to the owner of one of those. Here's a bit of what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, KUSA)

HARVEY BOARDMAN, STORAGE MANAGER: The FBI, and they were looking for a certain individual, if he rented in here, and he hadn't. And we just talked for a few minutes and then this week, they came back with four pictures, one of the same individuals that's being interviewed by the FBI right now.


MESERVE: So, the first visit was last week, a second visit this week. He says four pictures, one of Mr. Zazi. He says one of the other three was a man; two of the pictures he says were of women.

We don't know what they found when they talked to the owners of other storage facilities, but we can presume that would take place, it would be a normal investigative thing to have happened when you're talking about a plot that potentially involved explosives. Here's why, because someone could have hidden components somewhere away from their home. That's why they would have been looking there -- Rick?

SANCHEZ: That's an important story. I tell you. My thanks to you for keeping us up to date on this thing. Let us know if anything changes on it.

In the meantime, we're getting some unsettling news here about a very important voice in the United States. This is news that's just coming in to me now. In fact, I'm just going to read it as it was sent to me. We're getting news that Irving Kristol. Irving Kristol -- you know Bill Kristol, right? Bill Kristol, from -- one of America's leading conservative voices has died at the age of 89. The "Weekly Standard" magazine is reporting this Friday. Irving Kristol is Bill Kristol's father, once again. He's considered one of the founders of the neoconservative movement, which advances activist foreign policy to promote democracy and human rights. So says the story. I'm reading from CNN wires to you. But the information is that Irving Kristol has passed on. He was 89 years old. Be right back.


SANCHEZ: Two pictures, one old and one new. Occasionally, we're going to see video of some tragic events and wonder, why didn't the person who was shooting it put the camera down and just go and help? Well, that's not what we're talking about today. Today, it's about people who did help and the small boy who is alive because of it.

Let's start "Fotos."


SANCHEZ: Ay dios mio! We showed you the first part of this story when it happened in July. Let me set the scene for you. Milwaukee, Wisconsin, an SUV hits a tree, flips and bursts into flames. Bystanders help the woman and two-year-old to safety. But a 5-year-old is trapped.

Two off-duty firefighters, brothers, happen to be close enough to help. And they do. I'll let you see it. And then I'll explain it. Go ahead, roll some of this for the viewers.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a baby in there!


SANCHEZ: And you hear what he says there? "There's a baby in there." That was John and Joel Richland (ph) pulling 5-year-old David Harper over of the burning vehicle.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a baby in there!


SANCHEZ: David was rushed to the hospital with major burns. Now, that happened in July. David has spent the intervening time being treated and we'll continue to follow his recovery.

Next Foto for us is this. That's David, he was released from the hospital yesterday. This image is only possible because strangers put themselves in danger to help him. God bless him, thank God, ,look at him. Can you imagine, he survived that scene I just showed you? And guess what? David's father says that the two firemen who rescued his son have become close family friends.




AUDIENCE: Fired up!

OBAMA: Ready to go?

AUDIENCE: Ready to go!

OBAMA: Fired up?

AUDIENCE: Fired up!

OBAMA: Ready to go?

AUDIENCE: Ready to go!


SANCHEZ: Fired up and ready to go. The president speaks publicly just about every day. This weekend, he is going to be all over your television once again, which raises the question, is he overexposed? Or overexposing himself? Or is it just right?

Tricia Murphy is going to help us answer that question.

And then today, a first for this program, when I am talking about, stick around. I'll tell you what it is when I come back.


SANCHEZ: And there you go. We welcome you back. Today is the first official day of something we're doing. It's -- we're going to be pretty excited about it. It's our first day of our inside the conversation tour.

We want to invite you, if you'd like to come in here and be a part of our show -- I know that we've twittered with you, we have MySpaced with you and we have Facebooked with you, we got all over the place. But we're also going to be letting you come here and experience and the CNN experience and be a part of the every end of our show from now on. So, I want you to know that you can do this. I'm giving you information on my blog so you can call the number and get on here.

In the meantime, I want to share with you now one of the comments we got on the comments that I made moments ago on what's going on with a full-page ad on FOX News. Go over to MySpace if you could, Johnny.

"All new stations do this, some worse than others, but it's up to you, the individual, to decide what you believe. I choose CNN. They have fact check sites available if you really want to know who is telling the truth."

We thank you for that. We do believe that that's important as well.

And I'll be back with Patricia Murphy. And, is the president overexposed -- in just a moment.

There is she is. Murph, how are you?


SANCHEZ: Stand by for news, OK?

MURPHY: All right.



DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the economy in a slump, families are struggling to make ends meet. But you don't have to sacrifice good nutrition. Where better to look for tips on healthy living on the cheap than a five-star French chef?

ERIC RIPERT, CHEF, LE BERNARDIN RESTAURANT: If you put a little bit of your interest into the food, it's easy to find a way to eat for a budget which is not too expensive good food.

GUPTA: World renowned chef Eric Ripert says it's all about doing what works for you.

RIPERT: You can, for instance, buy a chicken which is very inexpensive. Instead of buying the chicken already cut or cooked, you buy whole. And therefore you save a lot of money.

If you want something healthy and something inexpensive, you have to think seasonal. If you want to eat tomatoes in January, it's very expensive. Now, if in January you eat root vegetables, if you make a soup, a squash, it's going to be very inexpensive.

GUPTA: So, so how does this French chef extraordinaire stay healthy himself, surrounded by topnotch cuisine all day long?

RIPERT: Right before I leave the house, I have a little bit of dark chocolate of very good quality. I leave my house around 10:00, and I walk through the streets of New York, takes about 40 to 45 minutes. It keeps me in a certain good health and in shape.

GUPTA: The bottom line, says Ripert...

RIPERT: I'm a strong believer that you can do a lot of things in terms of eating, which is you can eat butter, you can eat chocolate, you can have a little dessert here and there. But again, you have to be in the quantity at least controlled. And you have to compensate with some exercise.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.



SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez from the world headquarters of CNN.

You turn on the TV this week, it will be hard to miss President Obama. He's on a full-scale blitz to sell his health care reform plan, doing talk shows on five different channels, including CNN on Sunday. We're looking forward to it. We're not saying we're not. He's also going to be on David Letterman on Monday night. columnist Patricia Murphy is good enough to join us now.

You'll wonder, though, if it comes to a point where the president could be overexposed, thereby lessening the impact of his message. You say what?

MURPHY: I say you have to look at what happened over the summer when Obama was really quite underexposed on health care. And his numbers went off a cliff. He went from about 70 percent approval rating to just under 50 percent. He was really quiet on health care reform. He was letting Congress take the lead, and that ended up being a detrimental strategy, almost catastrophic.

So, what he needs to do now even if he risks being overexposed, he has to better explain health care to people, he has to help them understand that it's going to make their health care better and not worse. Those poll numbers are still looking really bad for him. So he still has a big job to do.

And he's the most popular person pushing health care reform right now. He can't leave it to Pelosi. He can't leave it to Harry Reid. He's got to do it himself.

SANCHEZ: You -- would you not agree that if you do too many of these events, after a while though, you start looking like a bit of a glory hog, a hot dog, media -- over media exposed.

MURPHY: Well...

SANCHEZ: You know, you've heard all the terms about people who run to television cameras when they see that little red button come on.

MURPHY: Sure. Well, he is the president -- and again, he does have this huge problem that most people -- and I'll give you a number that should scare the White House quite a bit. Only 22 percent of Americans think that health care reform is going to improve their own health care. That is never going to fly. No member of Congress is going to vote for this bill if they're in a tough reelection in their opinion, if they've got numbers like that back home.


SANCHEZ: But I hear people all the time. Listen, Patricia, I hear people all the time say what a great communicator this guy is. And I think, to a certain extent, he's certainly given some speeches that have been great.

But if he were such a great communicator, why can't he get simple principles across to the American people on something like this? You know, for example, 30 percent of the money that we spend is going right to insurance companies rather than to the care that we need to receive. That's a pretty simple idea. I get that. How come -- how come we're not hearing that?

MURPHY: Well, Rick, one huge problem he's got is that what he's proposing is a massive overhaul of a really complicated system. It's all very, very confusing. And most people are relatively happy with their own health care.

So, he's having to convince a huge number of people that what's going to happen in a giant change is not going to adversely affect them. And, again, the numbers here -- the numbers are really what's killing him on this. The numbers just don't add up.

It's not so much that he's speaking too frequently. He's just not saying anything that's particularly convincing to tell people that once we have this overhaul, once we insure 30 million more people, that the deficit won't go up. It's not -- it's not how frequently they're getting the message, it's just they're not buying it right now.

SANCHEZ: Have you ever seen and -- I know you're young and you haven't...

MURPHY: I'm very young.

SANCHEZ: ... experienced that many presidents.

MURPHY: I'm not saying anything.

SANCHEZ: No, you know, you and I have talked, and we've gotten to know each other over time. So, I know you have a depth for these kinds of things, and certainly, a good take on history. Have you ever seen a president that's had to deal with as much direct animosity, not just from huge groups of people, but from direct media, as well?

MURPHY: No president has ever been exposed to the kind of media -- just the technology has changed so much. It is right in this president's face and it's right in Americans' faces. And listen, there was more than enough animosity toward JFK, for example, when he was trying to desegregate the schools. There has been a lot of hatred for a lot of presidents in the past, even George Bush. I mean, he was burned in effigy more than once across this country.

So, there's always been hatred. But the vitriol is being broadcast 24 hours a day in the people's living rooms. I think it's very startling. I don't -- I don't know if it's particularly new but he's getting a lot of it.

SANCHEZ: But look, nobody was harder on Bill Clinton than CNN was. I mean, you couldn't turn on the channel without seeing Monica Lewinsky's picture for the longest time. So, it wasn't ideologically- based. Is it not the case that now -- maybe more than ever, I don't want to put words in your mouth -- the media is more ideologically based, and those who are in the media who are enemies of this president or his party, just say it that way?

MURPHY: Yes, the media is certainly more ideologically-based. That sells commercials for a lot of TV stations. A lot of broadcast networks, they're figuring out that's how they're going to sell more commercials as if they're more provocative.

But listen, something that anybody who's on the Internet, anybody who writes on the Internet experiences this. There is a lot of hate in -- on the Internet. There is a lot of hate that comes out in comments.

You're hearing from people who used to just be -- unfortunately, just be in their basements. Now, they have an Internet connection and a lot of hate, a lot of vitriol. A lot of what was maybe in the back corners of people's communities is coming out front and center. And Obama is unfortunately taking the brunt of that.

SANCHEZ: Well, and that's fine, but truth is important, as well. And I'll give you the example. My calling out of FOX News earlier today, when I said that, in fact, what they had said in that ad in the "Washington Post" was a lie. Do we need to be -- do we need to be doing more of that? Would you agree?

MURPHY: You know, we have to be doing more of it, because people crave information and they crave reliable information. I'm not really convinced that Americans need to have other people's opinions lumped onto them. They just need reliable information that they can turn to and form their own opinions. And you can't form a reliable opinion of your own if you're not getting honest information as an input.

SANCHEZ: But it does seem these days that many people choose who they're going to go to and stick to them. Maybe the best advice at all would be to choose lots of different sites. Look at somebody who maybe a little coming at it from the left, somebody who's coming from the right, and somebody who's coming at it more from the middle, like Patricia Murphy.

My thanks to you. We'll continue in just a moment, OK?


SANCHEZ: Here's Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."