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The War in Afghanistan; The Mojave Memorial Cross; Health Reforms Deadly Dilemma

Aired October 07, 2009 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, a Senate committee tackles laws that protect workers from age discrimination. Democrats want to nullify a recent Supreme Court ruling that makes it harder for older workers to prove they are victim of age bias. The judiciary committee will begin hearing testimony shortly.

The father of a missing Florida girl is filing for divorce from the girl's stepmother. The move follows weeks of reported tension between Ronald and Misty Cummings. Then five-year-old Haleigh Cummings disappeared back in February. Misty Cummings who at that time hadn't married Haleigh's father was the last person to see the girl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It should now be clear the United states and our partners have sent an mistakenable message. We'll target Al Qaeda wherever they take root. We will not yield in our pursuit and we are developing the (INAUDIBLE) and the cooperation to deny a safe haven to any who threaten America and its allies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The war in Afghanistan, the past, the present and the future. Today at the White House, President Obama holds high level meetings and a long-term strategy. The largest question facing him and his national security team, should the U.S. send more troops into Afghanistan? As you know, today marks the eighth anniversary of the start of the war in Afghanistan.

CNN's Dan Lothian takes a closer look now at how things have changed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FMR. U.S. PRESIDENT: On my orders, the United States military has begun strikes against Al Qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. We will not waiver. We will not tire. We will not falter. And we will not fail.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): October 7th, 2001, America goes to war in Afghanistan. Eight years later with his own party and the American people wavering and the potential for failure it is President Obama's conflict to win or lose. And he's taking his time deciding the next step. Meeting Tuesday at the White House with lawmakers from both sides of the aisle. Liberal democrats clearly hesitant to ramp up the war effort.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: Let me say it's a difficult decision for the president to make.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you imagine supporting tens of thousands of more troops, speaker?

LOTHIAN: No such hesitation from Republicans. They emerged with two teams. The need to listen to military leaders who want more boots on the ground in Afghanistan and the urgency of making a decision.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's pretty clear that time is not on our side as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has said. We need to act with deliberate haste.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: We need to get this right and I'm hopeful that the president will make a strong decision that will allow us to win this effort that was started many years ago.

LOTHIAN: Whatever decision the president makes, it will have strategic implications on the front lines and political ones here at home.

ARI FLEISCHER, FMR. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm very curious to see which way he'll go and decide on that. Major turning point for a Democrat president who may have to split from the liberal base who frankly would like to pull out of Afghanistan. We'll see.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Dan Lothian joining us now from the White House with more on this. So, Dan, some of the polling numbers suggest a majority of Americans oppose the war in Afghanistan. Don't support sending in more troops. Is this something the White House is paying attention to or are they listening to the military commanders who are there?

LOTHIAN: Well, they certainly are paying attention to it. Robert Gibbs, a spokesman here at the White House that the president does see these polls that he is paying attention to the temperature across the country. And really, all he has to do is look out the window for the last two days. There have been anti-war protesters at the front gates of the White House, calling on the U.S. to pull out of Afghanistan.

Having said that though, the administration says that when it comes to the president making up his mind on the decision to go forward in Afghanistan, it will not be based on politics and the president will make a decision based on facts, on the assessment that will deal with the threat that terrorist threat in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

COLLINS: All right. We'll be watching. Dan Lothian, thank you.

Eight years later, what is the financial toll of the war in Afghanistan? From the beginning of the war there through the fiscal year 2008 American taxpayers have spent nearly $189 billion. That tab climbs to $223 billion if Congress approves this year's budget. For the sake of comparison, the war in Iraq has cost nearly $700 billion.

Today on this eighth anniversary of the war, we wanted to get a sense of where the U.S. stands and for that we go now live to Kabul, Afghanistan, and our correspondent there, Atia Abawi. Atia, eight years later, how are things looking from where you are?

ATIA ABAWI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really depends on who you talk to, Heidi. At the moment the Afghan people, they have lost a little hope when it comes to the international mission here in Afghanistan but they still, they are fearful of the U.S. troops, these foreign troops leaving because they feel that that will leave a vacuum behind and what they're most fearful of is a civil war and Taliban regime coming back.

When you talk to the commanders on the ground, they realize they have told me that they know why they're here in Afghanistan. They remember 2001, they remember September 11th and they feel that the war has started here and it still isn't finished. I talked to soldiers who have been to both Iraq and Afghanistan and many of them have told me that they believe in their fight here and they realize why they're here and for the most part it's not necessarily a fight as much as it is in helping the Afghan community, the Afghan society to build a nation after 30 years of destruction.

Afghanistan still has a long way in improving and when you talk to the international community and you talk to the Afghan community, both sides will admit that the war in Afghanistan has been under resourced. Heidi.

COLLINS: Of course, the nation building is so complicated and difficult with the Taliban who is around and having a strong presence as we even heard from the lips of the defense secretary for the United States just the other day.

ABAWI: Absolutely. Well, we have Washington deciding on what strategy to choose in moving forward with the mission in Afghanistan, we heard from Mullah Omar in the last Muslim holiday, sending out a message to the Afghan people saying that he too have a strategy, that once the foreign troops pull out, he says that he has a plan for infrastructure, for education, for a just Islamic system.

But his plan is a plan that the most Afghan people fear because 10 years ago they remember what life was like back then. No music. Girls couldn't go to school. Women couldn't go to work. They have seen improvement. They have had 30 percent of the children going to school are little girls in Afghanistan. You go out on the streets of Kabul, women are going to work. They are going to university but at the same time that's in the capital. What they want to see is that it's spread out throughout the country. Heidi.

COLLINS: Right. Right. All right. Good point. Atia Abawi, thanks so much. Live from Kabul, Afghanistan this morning. And we do want to hear from you. We're talking about it on our blog, in fact, today. Does the battle in Afghanistan look any different than it did eight years ago. Give us your feedback. Just go ahead and head to cnn.com/heidi. You can put some of your thoughts there. We will read them right here in the CNN NEWSROOM throughout the morning.

Let's go ahead and take a look at the Big Board right now. Looks like we're down double digits about 30 points or so. Watching the numbers closely because it has looked good over the past three days. We'll continue to watch them throughout the morning as well.

It has been nearly three months since General Motors emerged from bankruptcy but it hasn't exactly been a smooth ride. CNN money.com Poppy Harlow is in New York with more on this. So let's get an update.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Sure.

COLLINS: How is GM's turnaround coming?

HARLOW: Well, Heidi, GM's president and CEO Fritz Henderson just started a conference call with reporters. We were just on that call talking about three months later now that this company is mostly owned by U.S. and Canadian taxpayers. How are things going? Some positive highlights at the forefront of that. Consumer reaction to some of those new released vehicles. The Chevy Equinox, the Buick Lacrosse. That's positive, they said their sales of those exceeded expectations last month.

They are actually ramping up production in the fourth quarter of this year by 23 percent. That's good news for employees. It means more shifts coming back to the plants. But GM also said, you know, is streamlining its operations and cutting down its leadership team, trying to make that more effective and slimmer. They also said Heidi that that electric Chevy Volt that remains on track to be launched late next year.

Still though, Heidi, no qualms about it. Huge obstacles at this company. Major hangover from that "Cash for Clunkers" program. After that ended, Heidi, GM sales fell 45 percent last month, far worse than Chrysler or Ford. They are still $50 billion in the hole to taxpayers and last week, Heidi, just another issue for them - plans to sell their Saturn brand to Penske Automotive fell through.

Now they're going to have to wind down 350 Saturn dealerships and it could cost more than $100 million. They say they don't anticipate job cuts as a result but the question is Saturn dealerships only sell Saturn cars. So what happens to all of those employees? We're going to be asking Fritz Henderson that in the next hour.

COLLINS: Of course, but Saturn hasn't really been the only speed bump here for GM.

HARLOW: No.

COLLINS: There are some other things that have not exactly gone according to plan.

HARLOW: You're exactly right. The Hummer brand, we heard, you know, a while ago. You know, Hummer was being sold to a Chinese industrial company. Well, that missed the target closing date of September 30th. GM says it is still on track missing those target dates is pretty common with international buyers. Still some concern over that. GM is also planning to sell two-thirds of its European brand, Opel, and what that could cost the company is some weakness in terms of sales overseas.

And what's concerning about that, Heidi, is that overseas is one of the markets where GM has had strength and not so much here in the United States. In an hour or so, we're going to interview the CEO of GM, Fritz Henderson, and ask him all those questions and really focus on the job picture, what's ahead for the employees of General Motors.

That full interview is going to be on CNNMoney.com. We'll bring a part of that in the noon hour. Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. Very good. Look forward to it. Poppy Harlow. Thank you.

And there she is, Jacqui Jeras, popping out of nowhere, watching all of the weather for us today because we're talking about delays at the airports.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We are. I snap my finger and I appear.

COLLINS: That's right.

JERAS: Sort of like "Bewitched," right.

COLLINS: Yes.

JERAS: I wish I could do that and make airplanes on time. You know, wouldn't that be fantastic.

COLLINS: That'd be great.

JERAS: Because I'm thinking there's probably a whole lot of grumpy people at the airports today.

COLLINS: Yes.

JERAS: Yes. Look at these delays. It's crazy. Ground stop in Atlanta which means if you are trying to get to Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson, you're going to have a hard time doing that. You're going to be a little bit late unless they can make up that time in the air. Delays now pushing two hours at LaGuardia. Fifty minutes at Newark. Detroit, you're looking at 20 minutes. You know, 20 minutes. You can give that up, right. 30 at JFK. 25 at Philadelphia. And 30 minutes at Teterboro. So we got a lot of wet weather and windy weather across the east. Expect those delays to continue throughout the day.

COLLINS: How are the Twins fans going to get from Minnesota to New York with delays like that in time for the big game?

JERAS: Well, I hope they have a very skilled pilot.

COLLINS: Yes, indeed. We know a couple of those. Hey, Jacqui, thanks so much. We'll check back later.

A cross in the middle of nowhere, it's been there for 75 years or so, so why is the Supreme Court being asked to take it down now? We got the story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: When does a cross cross the line between church and state? The nation's highest court is hearing the arguments today about one cross in particular. CNN's Kate Bolduan has the story behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could very easily drive right by or mistake it for a forgotten billboard in the middle of 1.6 million acres of desert. But inside is a cross boarded up by order of a federal judge, a cross creating a huge constitutional controversy.

(on camera): How many miles do you guys travel from your home to come take care of the memorial?

HENRY SANDOZ, CARETAKE OF CONTROVERSIAL MEMORIAL: We don't really take care of it now because of the box, but we're 160 miles away from it now.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): Henry and Wanda Sandoz have been the unofficial care takers for what has for decades been known as the Mojave Memorial Cross, first erected in 1934 by their friend, a World War I veteran to honor fallen soldiers.

WANDA SANDOZ, CARETAKER OF CONTROVERSIAL MEMORIAL: We just love our veterans and we feel they should be honored. And this is right here in this little piece of our world, that's how we did it.

BOLDUAN: But it also sits in the Mojave National Preserve, government land and some now argue that cross is violating the constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.

PETER ELIASBERG, ACLU OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: What Mr. Buono want is neutrality here and complete (INAUDIBLE) here.

BOLDUAN: Peter Eliasberg is the ACLU attorney for a Frank Buono, a former ranger who worked in the preserve, the man who filed the original lawsuit. While Buono is Catholic and a veteran, he says the Mojave cross should go.

ELIASBERG: For the government to say we're going to each and every one of you veterans, this religious symbol even though for many of you it is not your religious symbol. That is not an appropriate expression of religion in public life.

BOLDUAN: Jewish and Muslim veterans groups support Buono, but attorneys for the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the Sandozes say the cross is a historical memorial, not a religious symbol, warning the outcome of this case could have far-reaching implications.

HIRAM SASSER, LIBERTY LEGAL INSTITUTE: This is the first one that's going up to the Supreme Court. And they want to make sure that this one prevails so that all the veteran memorials with religious imagery across the country can be protected.

BOLDUAN (on camera): Why not just take this memorial, same cross, same memorial, and just move it to a less controversial location?

HENRY SANDOZ: It was put here by the veterans for the veterans of all wars, and that's where it should stay.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): In recent years, the Supreme Court has taken a case by case approach on this issue allowing the 10 commandments to remain on public property in a Texas case, the same day ruling a display of the 10 commandments in a Kentucky Court House unconstitutional. With its caretakers anxiously standing watch, it's now up to the high court to decide the fate of this cross.

WANDA SANDOZ: I hope it won't be too long before we'll be able to look at the cross again instead of a stupid box.

HENRY SANDOZ: We'll repaint it.

BOLDUAN (on camera): No matter the outcome, this case could be a major test of if and where the government will draw the line when it comes to any private expression on public land.

Kate Bolduan, CNN, at the Mojave National Preserve.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: A hearing is being held this afternoon for a former astronaut charged with an attack at a romantic rival. Attorneys are trying to get a Florida judge to drop the charges against Lisa Nowak. Attorney argues prosecutors withheld a police report that said Colleen Shipman was never hit with pepper spray as first reported. She had began dating an astronaut that Nowak had previously gone out with.

Police in (INAUDIBLE) in Louisiana have a lot to go on in their search for a suspect. Probably a little bit more than they want. A naked guy broke into a woman's home late Sunday night and security cameras captured his every move. He showered. Ate. Drank. Showered again. Before leaving. Police say he also did extensive damage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is video evidence. You know, video evidence is probably the best evidence you can have. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The camera caught him butt naked with his face and when you got in my house he had to see the system was up and he didn't even bother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Officers say they are pretty sure they will get their man. We'll stay on top of that one for you.

The face of the health reform debate. You'll meet a man whose life is caught in a deadly dilemma. Should be he left to die because he's in this country illegally.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Checking our top stories now. Roman Polanski loses a round in his fight to avoid extradition to the United States. The Justice Ministry of Switzerland has rejected his petition to get out of jail. The Oscar-winning director is wanted in Los Angeles for having sex with a 13-year-old girl 32 years ago.

Germany's capital is on high alert this morning since midnight police have been searching various apartments for what they call potentially violent Islamic extremists. A spokeswoman says they're looking for people who may have had some sort of Al Qaeda training. Police add they have no concrete evidence of a terror plot.

Today we may learn how much health care reform could cost. Members of the Senate Finance Committee are waiting for the Congressional Budget Office to fill in the blanks before they vote. The plan they're considering calls for co-ops instead of a public option. Some estimate the proposed bill would cost between $900 billion over 10 years.

The debate over health care reform. One of the most impassioned arguments has dealt with illegal immigrants. Should taxpayers foot their bills? If not, should they be allowed to die? Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen talks to a man whose life hangs in the balance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ignacio Godinez is in the United States illegally and has been since he was 14 years old. Three years ago his kidneys failed for no apparent reason. He was grateful when Grady Hospital in Atlanta gave him free dialysis three days a week. Without dialysis Godinez would likely die in two weeks.

(on camera): A few months ago you got a letter from Grady.

IGNACIO GODINEZ, DIALYSIS PATIENT: Yes. I got a letter saying they would be closing.

COHEN (voice-over): Grady told about 100 people including about 60 illegal immigrants that the dialysis clinic is closing, one solution Grady offered, a free plane ticket back home. Godinez told them no thanks.

(on camera): So if you showed up on Mexico, would you just get dialysis do you think?

GODINEZ: No.

COHEN: Do you feel like they've been given you some good options?

GODINEZ: No. They just put us on the street like we're not humans.

COHEN (voice-over): Grady says 10 illegal immigrants said yes to the offer of a free tip home. The rest were offered three months of treatment at a private clinic paid for by Grady. The financially strapped hospital funded by taxpayers said they had no choice but to kick these patients out. Their clinic is losing $3 million a year. Dr. Danielle Ofhi, an internist who takes care of immigrants in New York calls the situation at Grady heartbreaking but not unexpected.

DR. DANIELLE OFHI, INTERNIST: The reality is that people are here. When they come to our hospital, you can't not care for them. You can't turn them away when they are sick. So we have this issue that's alive and well in our hospital.

COHEN: There are seven million undocumented and uninsured immigrants in the United States costing taxpayers about a billion dollars a year. Health care reform won't help.

OBAMA: None of the bills that have been voted on in Congress and none of the proposals coming out of the White House proposed giving coverage to illegal immigrants. None of them. That has never been on the table.

COHEN (on camera): Some people would say, you're not a U.S. citizen, why should we give you free dialysis? We don't have enough money to take care of Americans.

(voice-over): To answer my question, Godinez showed me his pay stubs from the Natural Gas Company where he started working at age 15.

GODINEZ: We pay taxes just like everybody else.

COHEN: On Saturday, Godinez went in for his last dialysis treatment at the Grady clinic. Then he learned about Grady's offer to pay for him to go to a private clinic for three months only. We went with him when he showed up at that clinic. They sent him away refusing to give him dialysis.

(on camera): Are you scared?

GODINEZ: Yes.

COHEN: What are you scared of?

GODINEZ: Well, to be really sick and then going to be the worse, I'm going to die.

COHEN (voice-over): Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: It may look like a stimulus and sound like a stimulus but the Obama administration says it's not a stimulus. We're talking about a plan to put more Americans back to work.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: The Obama administration is not using the "s: word here even though a series of measures aimed at putting people back to work looks an awful lot like a stimulus plan. Our Christine Romans is here now to explain. Hi there, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Heidi.

Well, at this point it's what the administration is considering as we face rising unemployment and frankly a very big concern that over the next year or period of years we could have a weak job situation that's going to mean people are going to need some help.

So, what do we do to create jobs and to blunt the pain for people who don't have jobs? So what the White House is telling our people that they are considering are a couple of things. Tax credit flexibility for small businesses. Extending unemployment and health care benefits. We've already seen a movement in Congress on that front.

In fact, the Senate within days could pass a bill to extend unemployment benefits for the third time. A temporary loan for states as you know state budget cuts and crunches there are meaning that in some cases the federal stimulus money the states are getting is more than eaten up by just trying to fill the holes in their budgets and that's sort of blunting the effectiveness of this year's stimulus in some cases.

So temporary loans for states to help them get through and temporary and also voluntary so that any of these state governors who are concerned about federal stimulus dollars, you know, how political that was this year, they could actually turn it down.

And also still talking -- we've been saying this for a few weeks now-- still talking about extending that homebuyer tax credit. That first-time home buyer tax credit. Some people in the home building industry and real estate industry would like to see it expanded to $15,000 tax credit for first-time homebuyers and maybe even make it available to everyone, not just first-time home buyers.

So, these are all the little things that they're talking about, and they're not calling it a stimulus. I'll tell you why. Some of these safety-net spending things, like unemployment benefits and the like, that's really what it is. It's a safety net. It doesn't necessarily create jobs, but boy, when you have 10 percent unemployment, you need to make sure that people can still feed their families.

And 10 percent unemployment really starts to wear at the fabric of society. I'm going to be honest with you...

COLLINS: Absolutely.

ROMANS: ... it's important to come up with a set of things that can blunt that pain. I do think, Heidi, it might be easier to try to -- to try to mitigate the effects of what's happening in the jobs market. You can measure that a little bit easier than you can, exactly how many jobs the government is saving or creating.

COLLINS: Yes. Any idea how much it's going to cost, too?

ROMANS: That's what we don't know. That's what will likely be unpopular about it. Because remember, some people just are sick and tired of -- it's bailout fatigue. Stimulus fatigue. People are tired of hearing about spending more money we don't have, borrowing money to get us out of a problem created by borrowing too much money.

But there are some measures in here that look like it is trying to get more broader support. The tax credits for business, for small business in particular. Small business creates 70 percent of the jobs in this country. That may make it more attractive for some Republicans. The fact that loans for states are voluntary, so in some states where they say, "We don't want to take borrowed money from taxpayers, we don't want to do that." Then they wouldn't have to do that.

Again, these are just under consideration and we don't know what it will look like yet, but we had a stimulus last year. $168 billion. This year, $787 billion. A lot of people will tell you, if you look at jobs lost and the market and home prices, you can see those things have all bottomed out. And supporters of this year's stimulus will tell you they think that's part of the reason.

COLLINS: Yes. And you have a "Romans' Numeral." Does it have something to do with this?

ROMANS: It does. It's 2,563. It has to do with this year's stimulus. And it's -- if you take $787 billion of what we spent this year, it comes down to $2,500 bucks for every man, woman and child in America. It's why some folks don't want to call it another stimulus. Because the Americans are getting tired of spending borrowed money, especially when they're the ones who eventually, in some way, shape or form, will have to be on the hook for it.

COLLINS: Is this where we talk about debt or is that later?

ROMANS: We talk about debt every day.

COLLINS: Producers say later. Later.

ROMANS: It is -- it's -- yes. We have, what? $11 trillion national debt. A budget deficit of $1.5 trillion -- yes.

COLLINS: Tomorrow. Tomorrow. That's the deal. Segue. Christine Romans, thanks so very much.

Investing in education. $650 million in stimulus money is now available to be looking at for each one of those schools and school districts -- local school districts, in fact, that either have a problem that is a program that's working and needs to be expanded or ones where a new idea needs to be developed.

So, education secretary Arne Duncan says it will go directly to these type of school districts. The money is expected to be awarded by September of next year.

The recession has caused a seismic shift in how we spend our money, and now a new report shows where Americans are spending and where we're cutting back. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock exchange with details. Hi there, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi. And I think the emphasis should be on the latter part of that sentence, where we're cutting back. We did spend money after all last year. Consumer spending rose 1.7 percent. But that is measly. It's the smallest increase since 2003.

And, Heidi, while you and I have done our part, the biggest cutback was involved in apparel. Clothes.

COLLINS: What?

LISOVICZ: Yes.

COLLINS: I'm kidding. I can totally see that. Yes.

LISOVICZ: Discretionary items. So, retail industry really got hit hard. Taking a nearly $10 billion hit.

That's why we see big sales all year long. This morning, for instance, Heidi, I saw a sale 30 percent off on wool coats. Right at the beginning of the season. Usually you're talk about January.

Consumers also cut back on car purchases, plane tickets. This is last year, remember. Long before Cash for Clunkers. On the reverse side, where did we spend? Dining at home. And the surprise is that entertainment spending rose up 5 percent.

COLLINS: Really?

LISOVICZ: Even during the Depression, folks needed an outlet. A lot of people went to the movies. Same thing is happening during this great recession.

COLLINS: Do you think that shift in spending behaviors is going to go away anytime soon, or will we see more of the same here for a while?

LISOVICZ: You know, this is unlike the last recession of 2001. Earlier this decade. There is survey after survey that say people are changing their habits, and they're changing their habits for good. In fact, the National Retail Federation says retail sales are likely to fall 3 percent this year. This afternoon, very interesting report on consumer borrowing.

Credit -- we're expecting the seventh straight decline because we're saving more. Managing our money. Visa earlier this year, Heidi, said debit card use -- debit card use -- surpassed credit cards for the first time in the company history. A seismic change in the way we live and it's expected to last. In the meantime, we're seeing a big change on Wall Street. The Dow and NASDAQ in the red after two spectacular days of gains. Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. We continue to watch those numbers. Every time we talk about it, maybe we should stop talking about it. All right. Susan, thank you.

October 7th, 2001, just weeks after the September 11 attacks, the U.S. launches the Afghanistan war. Today is the eighth anniversary of the start of that war.

In Washington, the debate still rages over a long-term strategy. Today, President Obama meets with his national security team to consider whether more U.S. troops should be sent to the war. Yesterday, the president hosted top lawmakers from both parties. The White House says a decision may be weeks away.

New details this morning about Saturday's insurgent attack on a U.S. outpost. Eight Americans died in the deadliest battle for U.S. troops in more than a year. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The first remains return home from one of the most brutal firefights for U.S. forces in Afghanistan. Eight killed. Twenty-five wounded.

CNN has learned new details of the fierce battle that happened here at Forward Operating Base Keating -- 80 U.S. troops and Afghan forces were surrounded on all sides by high mountains shown in these 2007 photos obtained by CNN. Insurgents were hiding in the ridgelines.

A U.S. military official with access to the latest intelligence tells CNN it was about 5:00 a.m. when the attack began at the outpost near the village of Kamdesh. The U.S. believes about 200 local insurgents planned the assault for days, hiding mortars, rockets and heavy machine guns in the mountains.

The U.S. troops were extraordinarily vulnerable.

JOHN NAGL, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: In successful counterinsurgency strategy, you don't put small groups of soldiers over watching infiltration routes from Pakistan.

STARR: During the seven-hour firefight, attackers got inside the compound. Several sources describe intense, close combat as the U.S. troops fought to defend the base.

Within 30 minutes of calling for air support, Apache helicopters were overhead moving into the valley in waves, firing against enemy positions.

But the narrow valley, cloud cover, and billowing smoke from a fire that erupted at the base, made it tough to launch an effective counterattack.

MedEvac helicopters also had trouble getting in because the landing zone was under attack. It would take hours to evacuate the dead and the wounded. Even then, some of the wounded troops didn't want to leave their buddies behind.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: The base had been scheduled to shut down in the next few days. U.S. officials believe insurgents were watching the troops make their preparations to depart and chose to strike at the most vulnerable time. It's a tactic that's been used in the past.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

COLLINS: Here's some numbers now to share with you from the Afghanistan war. So far, 865 Americans, according to the Department of Defense, have died there. Another 570 allied troops have been killed. There are some 66,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Nearly half of that number, 30,000, are under NATO command.

So, what's different in the war in Afghanistan in the last eight years? What's the same? That's what we want to know from you on our blog today. Wanted to make sure we heard from you. CNN.com/heidi is, of course, the address. Let's go ahead and check some of the responses now.

Here we go. This one from Kelly. "I do think it looks different. Things have changed. Life and the battle have not stood still. There's still much to be done. The president needs to either change the mission or send more troops and resources to help the troops that are there now. Great leaders are made by making difficult decisions under pressure and quick enough to make a difference."

And this one: "Nothing has changed. I don't think that automatically means we need to rush out of there. While people are busy pointing their fingers at President Obama for not doing what they want him to, they seem to forget that he's only been in the office for ten months of an eight-year war."

And finally, this one from Joe: "Afghanistan seems to be another Vietnam. An endless war. Maybe if we had concentrated on Afghanistan and Pakistan from the beginning instead of wasting lives, money and time in Iraq, we would have been able to pull the plug on the Taliban."

Some of your responses today to our question on the blog. CNN.com/heidi is the address. We love to hear from you. Thanks, everybody.

It was rough getting to work this morning for Jacqui Jeras. Really stormy outside in the area. What's the widespread look here? Is this a Southeast thing?

JERAS: Oh, no, my friend. This covers the entire Eastern Seaboard and part of the Midwest, too. A lot of travel delays. Don't shoot the messenger. We'll tell you about that. Plus, meet Henri, the latest tropical storm in the Atlantic. We'll tell you about it coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Checking our top stories. The recent killing of a Chicago honor student added to other violence against teens in that city has prompted the Obama administration to respond. Education secretary Arne Duncan and attorney general Eric Holder are in Chicago today to meet Mayor Richard Daley. The three will have a news conference in the noon Eastern hour. We'll carry that for you live here on CNN.

CNN tonight, Anderson Cooper is "Keeping Them Honest" in Chicago. What's behind the epidemic of teen murders in the city, and how can authorities win the battle to keep young people safe? Watch a special "AC360" live from Chicago tonight at 10:00 Eastern.

Flying around the busy holiday season is already expensive, and now it costs even more. Last month, several big airlines added a $10 surcharge each way for three days around Thanksgiving and New Year's. Now, farecompare.com knows the same airlines have added ten more days, including extra days around Thanksgiving, Christmas and spring break, too. It looks like discounters like Southwest and Jet Blue are avoiding those surcharges.

Imagine something so big you could fit the Earth 1 billion times inside of it. NASA scientists say that's how huge the newly discovered ring about Saturn is. They did not even notice it before because it's practically invisible. It is made up largely of ice and dust particles. A NASA space telescope only now picked up on heat from some of that dust.

Love that story. They didn't notice it before because it's invisible.

JERAS: It's so cool. Such vivid pictures they're able to get now. Amazing.

COLLINS: Was that an animation or pictures?

JERAS: I think it was a still. Wasn't it a still? Whatever.

COLLINS: NASA picture. Looking at it again. There you go.

Anyway, hi, Jacqui. Not great weather if you are a traveler out there.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: All right. Very good. And travel for the Minnesota folks going to the New York game, I have a note from the president of CNN saying, "Forget about it. Twins are going to go down." Quote.

JERAS: Oh, stop. Go Twins. Win Twins.

COLLINS: My fellow Minnesota sister. Thank you, Jacqui Jeras. We'll check back later.

American first-graders becoming proficient in language. Not English but Spanish. And there's a waiting list to get into their school, too.

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COLLINS: The changing world for Latinos. Two reports released today indicate that Latino youth between ages 16 to 25 are more likely to be in school or in the workforce than their counterparts in 1970. But there's still a significant gap between the education of Latino and white youth.

And there's another divide indicating Latinos place a high value on a college education but have only modest aspirations of actually getting a college degree themselves. These findings come from the Pew Hispanic Center.

You've heard the saying children are like sponges. They soak up information. Some parents in California are banking on that. They're trying hard to get their kids into an elementary school where all of the classes are taught in Spanish. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're about to meet the Dixons, a family of four who are so determined to get their kids into a rare academic program they moved, changed jobs and commute up and down the mountain for this unique opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me get my stuff.

GUTIERREZ: They live in the foothills on horse property. The Dixons could have sent their kids to any school in the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Spanish was huge.

GUTIERREZ: Instead, they chose Jefferson Elementary, a small, weathered school in Lindsay, California; a farm town where the population is 80 percent Latino.

This is what you gave everything up for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. We're very happy with the decision.

GUTIERREZ: They did it for the Spanish so that Amos, the fourth- grade fourth-grader, and Roz, the first-grader, would become proficient in the language.

The students who are sitting at this table didn't speak a word of Spanish before they started kindergarten. But now they're in first grade and 70 percent of their day is spent learning in Spanish.

It's a concept called dual immersion. The program which parents have the option to choose begins in kindergarten. The goal: fluency in Spanish and English by sixth grade.

Studies show that over time dual immersion students do as well as and even outperform students taught in one language.

JOE DIXON: We want our children to be educated, highly educated. We consider learning another language being bicultural, being biliterate to be a highly educated person.

GUTIERREZ: When you first started coming to school here did you speak Spanish?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

GUTIERREZ: How long did it take you?

The Dixons who both doctorates in education and now work for the school district say children are most receptive to learning languages before age 7.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A second language is going to help but also the comfort with different cultures.

GUTIERREZ: That's what Amos, Ezekiel, Diana, Abigail and 200 other English speakers who are in this program have learned first-hand on the play ground.

School superintendent Janet Kliegl, started the program 11 years ago. Now, there's a waiting list to get in.

JANET KLIEGL, SUPERINTENDENT, LINDSAY UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: In fact Mexican children bring their culture to this country and it's not something I'm afraid of. I think we get richer as we learn about more people and learn about more cultures.

GUTIERREZ (on camera): Some parents may worry the dual immersion could hold a student like Amos behind. After all, most of the instruction is in another language. How did he do against the rest of the students in California? In language arts, he's on the top third percentile. And in math, he got a perfect score.

Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Lindsey, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Later this month only on CNN, "LATINO IN AMERICA." A comprehensive look at how Latinos are changin America, reshaping politics, business, schools, churches and neighborhoods. "LATINO IN AMERICA," see it here on CNN. Next stop, Yosemite National Park and a woman who weaves baskets and stories. It's the gift of a lifetime you won't soon forget.

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COLLINS: Seventy-three years ago, Julia Parker arrived at Yosemite National Park as a seven-year-old orphan from an Indian reservation. For decades, she's been teaching park visitors about the history of the land and the culture of those who once lived there. As photojournalist John Touregone (ph) shows us, she creates beauty from the beauty that surrounds her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIA PARKER, YOSEMITE PARK STORYTELLER (voice-over): My first sound that I heard when I came into Yosemite was water rushing. My name is Julia Florence Parker. This is our willow patch. I'm gathering for a basket. See if the willows are going to like us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She started working in the Indian village about 60 years ago.

PARKER: My teacher said, "When you make that basket, you have to give it away." I thought, "Who would want this funny little crooked basket?" So, I gave it away. I always look in rummage sales and I look at sidewalk sales and I might find that little basket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia Parker is a park ranger on paper, but she doesn't wear the hat and badge like I do. She wears traditional Native American clothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a living legend and she's known throughout the whole world. People will come to Yosemite to visit her here, and she works in the museum in there.

PARKER: That's one of the baskets I did for the museum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia is truly a national treasure. She's been honored by universities. She has baskets all over the country. She's consulted with museums.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ever since I was little I followed my mom around. She worked in the village and after that, she came to the village and demonstrated to tourists.

PARKER: I do have an Indian name that was given to me. I'm called Houina (ph). It means person of peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I used to come with her as a young child, and I began to learn from my mom.

PARKER: I learned from my elders. They told me that, you know, "Julia, you take from the earth with a please, like offering, and then you give back to the earth with a thank you."

(HUMMING) (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Photojournalist John Touregoe (ph) is kicking off this new series. You can find new information about "Americana in Focus: Jobs That Last" online at CNN.com/Americana.

I'm Heidi Collins. CNN NEWSROOM continues now with Tony Harris.