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Health Care Backroom Deals; Home Loan Payment Struggles; Holiday Stress and Heart Attacks
Aired December 22, 2009 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: News that is happening right now, two sheriff's deputies have been shot and injured in the same Washington state county where four officers were killed last month. Officials say the deputies from Pierce County were responding to a domestic violence call involving two brothers. They say one brother opened fire on the deputies.
The officers fired back, killing the suspect. The two deputies are hospitalized right now; one in serious condition, the other in critical. Last night's shooting comes three weeks after four Lakewood officers were gunned down in a coffee shop.
A Missouri man who has confessed to killing a doctor who performed late-term abortions is expected to find out today if he can use a controversial defense strategy at trial. 51-year-old Scott Roeder said he had to kill Dr. George Tiller to save unborn children. Prosecutors are objecting to the so-called necessity defense saying abortion is a lawful activity. A judge in Kansas is set to rule on the pre-trial motion this morning.
And check this out, red-hot lava oozing from the Mayon Volcano in the Philippines and officials warn that a major eruption could be imminent. Almost all of the 47,000 people living on the slopes of the volcano have evacuated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GOLDMAN, FIGHTING FOR SON'S CUSTODY: I've been doing this for an agonizing over five years now and time and time again I come down here to bring home my son and I get the same thing. And just the plain, simple fact that Sean and I should be together is not happening. It is very, very sad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: That was David Goldman talking about the delays that he has faced in the custody battle for his nine-year-old son. Well, today we are awaiting a possible decision by the Brazilian Supreme Court that could send Goldman home to New Jersey with his son. One Supreme Court justice stopped the planned reunion last week, even after a lower court cleared the way for the American father to take custody. Goldman has been battling the family of his late ex-wife for custody of the boy. Both sides spoke with CNN's Erica Hill on last night's "Anderson Cooper 360." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I knew the attorney for the family has also said that they would like to have negotiations with you, but on the condition that Sean not go to the States right away. And they really don't feel that this should be an issue between countries, it should be an issue between families. How do you respond to that?
GOLDMAN (on the phone): Well, they haven't said any of that to me. And again, this isn't a negotiation-type situation. He's illegally held. He is recognized by this country as being illegally retained.
SERGIO TOSTES, ATTY. FOR SEAN GOLDMAN'S BRAZILIAN FAMILY: We did not kidnap or abduct the kid, not whatsoever. This has been something going in court for five years. And what Mr. Goldman says, that's not exactly reflect what was the first court decision.
The first court decision when the mother was still alive was that Sean should be kept where he was having a normal life, and Mr. Goldman always have opportunities to visit his son. He did visit while the mother was alive because he did not want to - just by legal strategy as said on television, that he was not coming to see the son because his lawyers had advised not to do so. Otherwise he would lose his relatives (INAUDIBLE) -
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Here's a look at the case, some background for you.
In 2004, Goldman's Brazilian wife took their son on a vacation to her home country. She never returned. Instead she got a divorce in Brazil.
Then, in 2005, the courts backed the International Abduction Treaty, which protects children in these cases, but the court refused to order the boy returned to New Jersey.
Now in 2007, the boy's mother remarried. A year later she died during childbirth.
And in February of this year, David Goldman was finally reunited with his son after five years. He was fighting with his late ex- wife's family for custody.
Then in June, a lower court granted custody to David Goldman but the Supreme Court held it up, ordering a review of the case.
And again, if there is any developments during this hour, we of course will bring that to you live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a major reason to celebrate to get it through the Senate after seven presidents have tried, seven have failed. This is the first time a universal health care bill has passed the Senate. So Democrats can take great heart in that. At the same time I think the sense of victory has been dampened by the stories of these back-room deals.
You know, we've always known that deals were being made in the back room but now in the age of cable news and blogs they have been brought into the front parlor and a lot of people are now seeing them and they don't like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Health care reform on track for passage in the Senate on Christmas eve. Two more procedural votes passed this morning and one final one is expected to pass tomorrow, but even as the bill clears hurdles, anger is growing over some of its fine print. CNN's Dana Bash is on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When it comes to senators holding out votes for back-room deals, this one is a doozy. One sweetener, given only to Ben Nelson's home state of Nebraska. Part of what Nelson got in return for his vote is right here on page 98 of the compromise.
The federal government will pay 100 percent of Nebraska's tab indefinitely for expanding Medicaid for low-income Americans. And when we asked the Democratic leader, he revealed Nelson wasn't the only one getting special deals.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: Dana, I would say this. If you read the bill, which I'm sure you will, you will find a number of states are treated differently than other states. That's what legislation is all about. Compromise. It's compromise. We worked on different things to get a number of people's votes.
BASH: Like Bernie Sanders, the liberal senator was unhappy Democratic leaders dropped a public option and said this a few days ago.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: It is not for sure I will vote for that bill.
BASH: Suddenly his home state of Vermont got extra help for Medicaid too. But to clinch Sanders' vote, Democrats added his pet project, $10 billion for community health centers nationwide.
SANDERS: One new provision that was placed in the health care reform bill by majority leader Reid, and I want to thank him very much.
BASH: Republicans accuse Democrats of bribery.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: Chicago-style, back room buy-offs at the expense of the American taxpayers.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Sweetheart deals which make this thing begin to stink to high heaven.
BASH: But Democrats didn't just slip things in to win votes to pass health care, they also showed whose got power. Senators with clout added provisions to help themselves back home. Chris Dodd's support for the bill was never in doubt.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: This bill is long overdue and critically important.
BASH: But the Connecticut Democrat facing a tough re-election battle buried $100 million in the measure for a new hospital. Other states can compete for it, but he put it in hoping Connecticut gets the hospital.
REID: It doesn't involve just my state, although my state is very interested.
BASH: And it doesn't stop there. The Democrats' health care bill slaps new taxes on insurance companies, but not for Michigan's Blue Cross Blue Shield, thanks to the state's Democratic senators, Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow, who got an exception.
Senate majority leader Harry Reid is unapologetic and even appeared to mock senators who did not cut deals for themselves.
REID: I don't know if there's a senator that doesn't have something in this bill that was important to them. And if they don't have something in it important to them, then it doesn't speak well of them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: And Dana Bash joins me now live. All right. So two new votes passed this morning. Where do we stand when it comes to this health care bill because of those two votes that did pass? Where is it now?
BASH: One of the votes was to formally accept the measure that all of those compromises and those deals are in, so that is done. That is now part of the overall Democratic health care bill officially. What is left, there really is one more procedural vote that will require 60 to pass, and that officially is to stop debate and move on with the final vote and then we would have the final vote.
When is that going to happen? That is the big question around here. Talking to many, many tired people from the senators to their aides to all of the workers around here. At this point it looks like it is probably going to be Christmas eve, maybe before the sun goes down on Christmas eve, but we did hear perhaps there was some talk about a deal in the works to do it earlier.
But the bottom line is Republicans have been complaining over and over. I'm sure if we heard Jeff Sessions, the senator from Alabama on the floor right now, you'd probably hear him saying this, too. They think the Democrats are pushing this through. They are trying to show that they can slow things down and they have some tools to do it. That's why we're headed for Christmas eve, Betty.
NGUYEN: All right. We'll be watching and waiting. Dana Bash, joining us live. Thank you, Dana.
So when there's a good bit of snow on the ground and the trains and the buses are packed, you do what you have to do to get around essentially. And here's what iReporter Javier Garcia has been seeing. Joggers in shorts in that kind of weather? Oh, my. And then people skiing toward Capitol Hill. I like that one. And in other areas the problem is ice. Nearly 200,000 people in five states still without power because of it. Most of them in Virginia and West Virginia. So will they get any relief today? Let's check in now with Reynolds Wolf to see all that ice, five states, power outages, causing lots of problems.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: So are you thinking of remodeling before you put your home on the market? Well, you may not get what you pay for. We're going to tell you the projects that can add to your home's value and those that do not.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: All right. Let's talk money now. A new report shows the economic recovery is a bit slower than expected. The Commerce Department says the gross domestic product grew at 2.2 percent in the third quarter. That is about a half of a percentage point lower than economists had predicted just a month ago.
It is a tough place to be, struggling to pay your mortgage. Some people have had their loans modified to ease that burden. So the question is, has it helped? Well, our Christine Romans joins us now. Christine, I understand there's both good news and then some bad news here.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: At least a year ago everything was bad news. At least now there's good news and bad news. Let's talk about these loan modifications because this is the issue we've been facing for the last, more than a year, maybe year and a half.
As these loans for homeowners have been restructured, homeowners who were behind, a big chunk of these people were in default again 90 days later. I mean when you look at a year ago, the loans that the people defaulted on, the second quarter of 2008, a third of them, almost a third of those people were in default again 90 days later.
I mean that makes it very difficult to solve a housing crisis. You can see in the third quarter of 2008 it spiked to 35 percent. But now look to second quarter 2009. The redefault rate, that is people who are in default again 90 days after they have had their loan modified, is 18.7 percent. That number is down.
And this federal data from banking regulators is they say because people - the banks have been asked and pushed to lower directed by the federal government to lower how much people are paying, their monthly payments, either by stretching out the number of months that they're making these payments or by lowering the interest rate or in some cases lowering the principal.
So no surprise really but federal regulators are saying if you can lower the amount that people are required to pay every month, then that could mean fewer re-defaults. Now here's where there are some other concerns in this big report. Who are the people who are falling behind on their mortgages?
Well, there's about 6.2 percent of all homeowners are seriously delinquent. That is up 16 percent. So people are still falling behind here. Seriously delinquent means 60 days or longer. Prime borrowers, there's a lot of increase and these are people who until now had no trouble paying their bills. But maybe because of a job loss or because of a spouse's job loss, now 3.6 percent of prime borrowers are behind and that's up almost 20 percent from the second quarter.
So that's something worrying, Betty, as we go forward. The number of people who have until now been able to pay their bills who are now entering the foreclosure problem.
NGUYEN: And you know, on top of that, still not out of the woods, right?
ROMANS: No. I mean we have about 1.7 million homes in the foreclosure process, in the final stage of the foreclosure process. That could mean in the coming months you're going to see 1.7 million foreclosures. That's still a problem. And it remains to be seen if this lowering of payments, as federal regulators say, if making the payments smaller, if over the longer term people are really going to be able to pay their bills.
Because look, one more job loss or having to take a job for lower pay, people are still having trouble with their finances. So we're seeing redefault rates come down but it's clear we're not out of the woods yet.
NGUYEN: Yes, very clear on that. OK, Christine, thank you so much. We do appreciate it.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
NGUYEN: Foreclosures, mortgage defaults, they're not the only signs of a weak housing market. The value of remodeling projects is also down for a fourth straight year. Alison Kosik is in the CNN Money NEWSROOM in New York. She joins us now live.
OK, Alison, renovating just doesn't pay like it used to, right?
ALISON KOSIK, CNNMONEY.COM: I know, Betty. If you've renovated your house this can be a little discouraging to hear but people are getting less bang for their buck when it comes to making those home improvements. Listen to this, the average remodeling job costs almost $51,000 this year. But added just $32,000 to the home's value. That's a return on investment of just 63.8 percent, down from 67 percent last year.
But there are some jobs with a better payoff. Look at this. Small-scale exterior projects are the most profitable at resale because in this down market it's all about adding to a home's first impression. It's what realtors call curb appeal. I'm talking about projects like steel entry doors, upscale siding and wood deck additions recoup a good chunk of their costs.
And remember, you may not get the dollars back but the renovations could make the house easier to sell, Betty. So there is a plus side to losing some money there.
NGUYEN: All right. What's the downside? Because a lot of people want to make these grandiose changes but sometimes it's just not worth it, you're not going to get your money back.
KOSIK: Exactly. And the study finds the least profitable projects are home office remodels and sun room additions. And major kitchen renovations are also low on the list. That's a big surprise. I want you to look at this. An upscale kitchen redo costs almost $112,000 on average this year, but added only $70,000 to the home's value. That's just 63 percent of the cost.
At the height of the housing boom in 2005, it was 80 percent. But Betty, I want you to remember, resale value isn't the primary reason why people decide to remodel, it's usually more of a personal decision, right? In fact with the housing market so depressed, many people have decided to stay in their homes and spruce them up instead of settling for a lower sales price. So if an upscale kitchen is what you want and you can afford it, go for it.
Betty, just remember when it comes time to sell, you may not get a big chunk out of your investment back but at least you'll enjoy living in the home.
NGUYEN: Well, yes but I'm still so surprised by that. Because usually it's your kitchen and your bathroom, those two places you've going to get a return but not like you used to apparently.
KOSIK: Exactly. But it will make the house easier to sell if the kitchen looks great, right?
NGUYEN: Yes, definitely. I mean, it's more attractive.
KOSIK: To know more about this, go to cnnmoney.com and you can also follow us on Twitter, Betty. Back to you.
NGUYEN: All right. Thank you very much for that.
Well, a Las Vegas woman says she is the victim of a horrible foreclosure mistake that has left her with nothing but the clothes on her back. Nilly Mauck says her condominium is located next to a condo that's in foreclosure. She claims that the realty company accidentally targeted her home instead, changing the locks on her door and hiring a cleaning company to throw out everything inside. She wants the company to pay her six figures to replace everything. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NILLY MAUCK, HOMEOWNER: I told her give me $100,000 to $200,000 to replace my things because it's going to take time. That's actually being generous. And they're like, OK, that's too much. She called me the same day and told me that they were only willing to give me $5,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Well, neither the realty company nor the cleaning firm are commenting on this case.
Let's check the top stories right now.
A Missouri man who has confessed to killing a doctor who performed late-term abortions is expected to find out today if he can use a controversial defense strategy at trial. 51-year-old Scott Roeder said that he had to kill Dr. George Tiller in order to save unborn children. Prosecutors are objecting to the so-called necessity defense saying abortion is a lawful activity. A judge in Kansas is set to rule on the pre-trial motion this morning.
Two Eastern Pennsylvanian teens are scheduled to appear in court today on a hate crime charge. The charges stem from the beating death of a Mexican immigrant, Luis Ramirez in Shenandoah, more than a year ago. A jury had previously cleared the teens of the most serious charges in the case but the decision prompted Pennsylvania governor to ask the Justice Department to pursue civil rights charges against the young men.
And don't get pregnant, that is the direct order from general to his troops in northern Iraq. The directive states getting pregnant or impregnating a fellow soldier could result in a court- martial. Pregnancy that arises from sexual assault would not be punished. The general told CNN this rule is meant to prevent losing soldiers when troop strength is stretched thin.
So we want to know what you think about it, getting court- martialed for getting pregnant. Go to cnn.com/betty or track me down on my Facebook and Twitter sites at Betty Nguyen CNN. I'm going to read some of your comments on the air so send them in.
In the meantime though, let's talk about this. Danger on Christmas day. I was really shocked by this news. You may need to find a defibrillator under the tree. We're going to tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: All right. The holidays, they are here, a time of great cheer, good will and heart attacks. That's right. More people, get this, die of heart attacks on Christmas day than any other day of the year. I was kind of shocked by this news.
Well, CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now live. All right... DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I see the Grim reaper here.
NGUYEN: Exactly. Just as long as you don't have a heart attack while we're talking right now. Why is it, added stress? What?
GUPTA: I think that's a lot of it. What's interesting is what it's Christmas day, the day after Christmas and then New Year's day are the three biggest days of the year...
NGUYEN: In that order, too?
GUPTA: In that order and so there's definitely something to the holiday time. But I think, you know, there's a lot of reasons that are sort of obvious and some that aren't as obvious.
One of them is people tend to blow off, you know, "their symptoms" during the holidays thinking they will take care of it at the beginning of the year.
NGUYEN: That's true.
GUPTA: People with heart disease, obviously, that can be a problem. Also hospitals may not be as well staffed as well so that could part of the problem. But Betty take a look at the list there. These are some of the ones that people think about. Stress - that's more than just a vague term here. That can actually cause inflammation in the body, which can lead to heart attacks in someone who has underlying disease. Travel -
NGUYEN: Which can cause stress.
GUPTA: Which can cause stress. All these things sort of interlinked. At the bottom of that list also there was fireplaces, which is interesting. Maybe not quite as intuitive. Fireplaces that release some carbon monoxide into the air.
For someone who has a little bit of underlying heart or lung disease, it could be a problem. For the vast majority of people not so much but if it's not venting properly, your fireplace, it could add to all these other things.
NGUYEN: That's good information. So besides the fireplace issue, what are some of the other things that you can do to reduce your stress levels and your risk?
GUPTA: I think one of the big ones is if you're watching a segment like or reading about this or something, to really make sure that you stay alert to your own health conditions and not, you know "blow off" symptoms that you think might be, you know, something that can wait. If you're traveling, take your medications. That's another big one. I tell family members this and friends.
Minimize alcohol consumption. Not always the easiest at the holidays if you drink, but again if you're at risk be a little careful there. Maybe sure your family is informed as well. They can be the best source for you if you're starting to have trouble. And you know it's funny, every holiday season, Betty, we always talk about the signs and symptoms of heart attacks and people have cardiac disease and a lot of people know this.
But you know, it's always worth pointing out, because you know, chest pain, pain in the left arm or neck, light headedness, shortness of breath, excessive sweating, nausea. It's a purposely vague list.
NGUYEN: I was going to say, I mean, that could be anything, some of these.
GUPTA: Right. I think that's a little bit of the point. You know, for women, for example, their symptoms may be entirely different than men. And heart disease is the biggest killer of women as well. So, you know, keeping in mind that if you're having symptoms that are unusual. You have a concern about heart disease, to get it checked out even during the holiday season.
NGUYEN: All right. Very good. Stand by too because we need to take you now live to Washington. There's a White House press briefing taking place right now. Press Secretary Robert Gibbs at the microphone.
Let's take a listen.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Whatever day they may decide that to be. I think the bill has, as you heard the president yesterday say, has a number of overwhelmingly good benefits for the American people. The president and his team will continue to play - careful, guys. This room isn't paid for. This is just a rental.
The -- the president and his team will continue to play the role that they have throughout this process, and that is working with leaders in the House and the Senate, discussing with them policy options.
I think the -- the role that he and his team have played up to this point has gotten us to the point where, in all honesty, healthcare is not a matter of -- health care reform is not a matter of "if." Health care reform now is a matter of "when." And I think the president is enormously encouraged by that.
QUESTION: Well, as you know, he's been criticized for not being more active by -- by some people the past year and that he gave Congress too -- has had -- has had too much...
GIBBS: He's been criticized for being too active and over - you know, the one thing the president has resolved in the new year is not to let any of the criticism bother him.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) when this goes to conference, he's going to be involved about as much as he has been in the past, is that what you're saying?
GIBBS: No, I don't -- we would not be at the point we are today if it weren't for the president's everyday involvement in this. I --I -- I -- you know, I know there have been reports to the contrary. I think the president believes that we've gotten health care reform right up to the point where, as I said a minute ago, it's not a matter of "if." It's a matter of "when."
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: On Iran again, I'm -- I'm wondering if now that Iran has sort of made its intentions clear that it doesn't plan to apparently abide by this December 31st deadline, has the White House then started making plans for the next phase, realizing that...
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBS: We -- we began making those plans weeks ago, as you heard the president talk about in -- on his trip to Asia.
QUESTION: And so it's clear to the White House now that Iran's not going to back down?
GIBBS: Well, you know, that's -- that's an Iranian decision. That's not -- that's not a decision that -- that we in the P-5-plus- 1will make.
The decision for them to live up to their responsibilities is their decision. We have offered them a different path. If they decide not to take it, then the American -- our delegation, with theP- 5-plus-1, will move accordingly.
Those preparations have begun. Discussions have been had with leaders about those next steps at -- at the U.N., as you know, in September, in meetings with the president and the Chinese on his recent trip. So we've begun to take those steps if China is unwilling to take -- I'm sorry, if Iran is unwilling to pursue its responsibilities.
QUESTION: The president's winding down this first year in office. As he looks back over this year, is -- is he at the point now where he can say this is kind of what I expected, in terms of the fight for health care, for economic recovery? Is it about what he expected or much more difficult than he expected?
GIBBS: Expected how? In terms of getting legislation through Congress?
QUESTION: Getting what he wanted, the fight for what he wanted. Is it about what he expected or -- or much more difficult?
GIBBS: Well, look, I -- I think that the president has - was never under any illusion that anything was -- was going to be easy. We're -- we're talking about fundamental health care reform. We're talking about fundamental change that will help in terms of healthcare reform, millions have access to affordable health care, millions that have that access see their costs reduced.
We know that this is a good thing for our fiscal picture. We know that, whether you have insurance or you don't have insurance, important reforms about the way insurance companies treat patients are in this bill. The Senate bill has some very strong provisions about-- that prevent insurance companies from padding their own pockets in medical loss ratio.
I -- I don't think the president was under any illusion that -- that anything was going to be easy. When he came into office on the20th of January, we were looking at an economic picture that I think it's fair to say had not been seen by a president likely since President Roosevelt.
And if you go back to that month, we had 741,000 jobs lost. The first quarter of 2009 saw a GDP reduction of more than 6 percent, an economic loss that had not been seen in almost three decades.
The president was not under any illusions, again, that any of this stuff would be easy. But I think he has focused domestically and-- and in foreign policy on the ideas that he thinks will make this country safer, more secure, and get our economy back on a road to recovery.
QUESTION: I just want (OFF-MIKE) reaction to the death of Ann Nixon Cooper, the 107-year-old woman who the president mentioned in his -- in his...
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBS: Let me talk to the president, and I'll get something from him.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: On health care, on the contentious issue of abortion language, has the White House been talking with Congressman Bart Stupak of Michigan? And, secondly, how confident is the president that some sort of compromise in the conference can be worked out that will satisfy all parties?
GIBBS: I will check will legislative affairs as to whether we've had any conversations. I don't believe the president has talked to Congressman Stupak in the last few days. I don't know if staff have had conversations with him or not.
I don't want to get into, again, where some of these issues may-- how some of these issues may be hammered out in a conference. I think it's better to let the Senate work their will and get us to a point where we would have those negotiations.
But, again, I think the president is quite confident that we are going to be able to figure out how to make health-care reform a reality. Again, I don't think this is a matter of it. I think this is now a matter of when. And the president looks forward to that.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: Robert, I want to get the president's take on some of the language that's been used in the last several days regarding the health-care reform.
GIBBS: Sure.
QUESTION: I don't know if you heard that the chairman of the Republican National Committee twice yesterday said that Democrats are "flipping the bird" at the American people.
GIBBS: How much did that interview (ph) cost, I wonder?
(LAUGHTER)
It wasn't directed at Norah (ph). That was just simply directed at the RNC. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
QUESTION: Was that language inappropriate?
GIBBS: I think if you look back -- just to give somebody some context as to why he came up with whatever verbiage he came up with, this was, I think, predicated on the fact that he had, in his mind, deduced that the White House had pressured the Congressional Budget Office into coming up with statistics that were good for the bill. I don't know how many questions I had been asked about CBO numbers in the last nine months. I think it's -- the notion that somehow this White House is in cahoots with the Congressional Budget Office is delusional, to put it mildly.
So, you know, I would suggest this for the RNC and for anybody that's in the Republican Party. There are millions of people that don't have health care this Christmas. There are millions of people that are watching their health-care rates skyrocket. And instead of giving chippy (ph) interviews, in might be good to actually be part of negotiations and a solution to get health-care reform -- to make health-care reform a reality for the American people.
I think that's what they want to see from their two political parties in Washington.
QUESTION: And then can I just follow up on John's question about the president's involvement? Because Senator Feingold said that the lack of support from the separation made keeping the public option in the bill an uphill struggle.
I asked Chairman Dean about this yesterday whether it was the administration's fault that the public option was not in there, and he said, simply yes.
GIBBS: Well...
QUESTION: There are some Democrats who believe that the president did not push hard enough.
GIBBS: And I think all those are certainly entitled to their opinions. Again, we would not be at this point in health-care reform were it not for the president's leadership. We would not be at a point where we were a couple of votes away -- not in people but sequencing -- to getting health-care reform through the Senate. At that point, we will have...
(PHONE RINGS)
... is somebody ordering a pizza?
(LAUGHTER)
(OFF-MIKE)
Good. Good.
(LAUGHTER)
Let me tell you, it's $30,000 if you answer that call.
(LAUGHTER)
We will have health-care reform through the House and through the Senate. That's never happened before. I think -- again, we're at a place that we've never been. We're closer to reform than we ever have been.
You saw David Axelrod and others over the weekend, I think, disagree with -- and I think, quite frankly, if you look at --disagree with Dr. Dean. And I think if you go through what's in this bill and what's good for the American people, I think -- I think, far and away, this is a bill that will provide people with important protections and make true health-care reform a reality for the first time in 70 years.
John?
QUESTION: Can you talk a little bit about the president's meeting today with the community and small bankers?
GIBBS: Yes.
QUESTION: Who -- you know, what is the message to them, and how is that message different from the meeting that he had with the big banks over the weekend?
GIBBS: Well, obviously, there are -- this group probably represents several thousand small and community banks throughout the country. The president wants to have a discussion with the bankers here about ways in which we can all work together, as he did with the bigger banks, to spur lending to small- and medium-sized businesses.
The president will, again, reiterate his support for comprehensive financial reform. I think those are the two main things that will be on the president's list. Obviously, some issues like compensation are -- are less of an issue for -- for these banks. We'll have a -- a more fulsome readout of the meeting. I think it'st aking place right now.
QUESTION: And, I mean, does he believe that the -- the small and community banks are as reluctant to -- to lend as the big banks? Does he fault them for that? And does he -- you know, does he...
GIBBS: These meetings aren't about -- finding fault with somebody doesn't help somebody get a loan. We want to figure out how to work with small -- small and community banks. We want to figure out ways in which the environment for lending to these small- and medium-sized businesses, where that can be conducive for these banks.
And if there are things that we can continue to do to help that process, the president wants to hear directly from them.
QUESTION: Robert, do you have any examples of ways in which lending could be increased by these banks?
GIBBS: Well, let me get a full readout of the meeting once they conclude the meeting. I don't think there's a lot that's done without hearing directly from what they talked about.
QUESTION: So far this morning, you have said three times it's not a question of when but -- not a question of if, but when the health care bill will be enacted. Do you see no possible deal- breakers in conference?
GIBBS: I think -- I don't -- I'm not saying that there aren't issues that have to be worked out. I think, though, that there is significant and important momentum for health care reform. I think, evaluating this legislation in the many ways that it will help the American people, whether you're lucky enough to have health insurance in this country, whether you want accessible, affordable insurance, whether you think it's time that the insurance companies have to change their actions as it relates to things like pre-existing conditions, whether you're a small business that wants help, or whether you're concerned about the fiscal picture of the federal government, this bill will help all of those groups.
And I think the president believes -- continues to believe that we're going to get health care reform passed to his desk and signed.
QUESTION: On -- on the hacking at Citigroup...
NGUYEN: All right, we've been listening to White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs talk about health care reform. As we've been hearing, saying it's not a matter of if, but when.
Speaking of health care reform and the bill, it's more than 2,000 pages long, and we know that you have a whole lot of questions about it, so here's what you do. You can go to our blog, CNN.com/betty or CNN.com/heidi and post your health care reform questions. We will answer as many as we can on the air this week.
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NGUYEN: We're taking the economy's temperature today because there are new reports, and they show the economy is growing and home sales are picking up again. Susan Lisovicz is on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange to explain. That's a little good news there, Susan. SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and we're happy to report it. Existing home sales, the biggest part of the housing market, Betty, surged in November. Nearly 7.5 percent. It was basically triple what Wall Street was expecting.
Why is that? A lot of folks were expecting that that first-time home buyer tax credit would expire. Also, mortgage rates are low. The average 30-year mortgage rate in November, 4.88 percent. That was even lower than October, which was also below 5 percent.
But we should also say one in three sales in November was a distress sale, so a whole lot of foreclosures. And also, lso a lot of the activity was on the low end.
Also something, the other economic report today, we talked about it at the opening bell, Betty, the whole look at the economy. Yes, the U.S. economy grew in the third quarter 2.2 percent. A lot slower than the original estimate of 3.5 percent, but that is good in the sense that we had four previous quarters of declines, of contractions.
And the estimate for this quarter, Betty, growth of 4 percent. If that holds, boy, that would really be a nice Christmas present. That would be the strongest growth since 2006 and that's why we're seeing a nice rally. The Dow is up 43 (ph) points, the NASDAQ, meanwhile, is up 10 points.
NGUYEN: Hey! They're both up, that's not bad. Thank you, Susan, we appreciate it.
LISOVICZ: You're welcome.
You are watching the CNN NEWSROOM.
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NGUYEN: Keeping your commitment to the U.S. Army. A priority for one general in Iraq who is laying down some very specific ground rules. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more.
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BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The top U.S. general in northern Iraq says get pregnant in the war zone and you risk getting court-martialed. This is a new order from General Anthony Cucolo. It's meant to prevent the 22,000 men unit in northern Iraqfrom losing soldiers at a time when the drawdown is stretching troops to the limit.
He says, quote, "I need every soldier I've got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces during our mission. Anyone who leaves this fight earlier than expected -- the expected 12 month deployment -- creates a burden on their teammates."
He goes on to say that anyone becoming pregnant, for example, from sexual assault would not be punished. But this, he says, is a real effort to try and make sure that troops understand mission comes first. And if they get pregnant, the women soldiers and the men who make them pregnant can face, really, the most drastic of punishments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Well, that brings us to today's blog question. We asked you what you think about the court martials for pregnant troops, and we're getting a lot of responses.
The first up to Major Walker. This is from our blog, "As a female soldier who has deployed three times, it sickens me to see the routine practice of getting pregnant to get out of deployment. It's about time our senior leaders took a stance."
Next from Mary, "I knew of women getting pregnant to avoid deployment when I was a soldier during the Gulf War. However, the percentage was very low. I think this directive may cause endangerment in the form of illegal abortions and abandoned children, not to mention extreme stress of getting caught."
And I want to take you to my Twitter site and let's see. This person right here, WaitatLiz, says "Together to maintain celibacy while on deployment together," and she's talking about essentially, people who have gotten married and are on deployment together. She's questioning does that make sense.
Also, Wizard 9 says, "Let the general fight this one in a courtroom under constitutional law. Many people have brought up the question whether this is indeed legal."
And another says, "They'll say, quote, 'if we wanted you to have a baby, we would have issued you one,'" end quote. Very interesting there.
So, thank you so much for your responses today. We do appreciate that. Remember, we do want to hear from you. All you have to do is log on to CNN.com/betty to share your comments.
Well, his brother is one of the suspects charged with killing an honor student, and he responds to some tough questions about what went down in that Chicago brawl.
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NGUYEN: A teen says fights were a way of life around his school, but he says one fight began differently. It became a brawl that led to an honor student's death. CNN's T.J. Holmes reports.
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T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It shocked the nation. But for 17-year-old Vashion Bullock, this brawl was only a step removed from his everyday reality.
(on camera): What happened that day that had you end up in the middle of all that?
VASHION BULLOCK, FOUGHT IN BRAWL THAT KILLED DERRION ALBERT: One of the kids had thrown a rock at my brother's car, so I approached the boys like, why did you all throw rocks and stuff at the car?
HOLMES (voice-over): For weeks, Vashion says tension was brewing between two rival factions at Chicago's Fenger High School. Fights between the teens were nothing new really but on this day, some kids came with makeshift weapons.
BULLOCK: They brought those weapons to the fight. They picked up from house bricks and brought them. They picked up them bottles and brought them. They ripped the railroad tracks up just to fight.
HOLMES: The video shows a shirtless Vashion with his brother Eugene Reilly standing next to him, both empty handed as another teen whacks Vashion with a wooden plank. When the brothers appear again, they're holding planks.
(voice-over): So your brother comes over and does what?
BULLOCK: Swung one of them. He was fighting with me. He had to protect himself and me. Because I am his little brother.
HOLMES (on camera): You're telling me your brother was simply defending himself and defending you at that time with whatever was around and whatever the other side was using.
BULLOCK: Come on. I got hit in the back of my head. He got hit in the back of his head with a stick.
HOLMES: Now did Derrion, as far as you know, did he ever - was he ever part of the group that was jumping you?
BULLOCK: I isn't going to say he was fighting me, because I couldn't tell.
HOLMES: So you assume he was over there, trying to swing on and trying to fight you and your brother?
BULLOCK: No, isn't assuming, I know for a fact.
HOLMES (voice-over): But authorities have repeatedly said Derrion was nothing more than an innocent bystander, on his way home from school, caught between two rival groups.
(on camera): So from what you see in that video, what do you see your brother doing to Derrion?
BULLOCK: I see him hit him with a stick. It was a fight.
HOLMES (voice-over): Derrion was still on the ground when Vashion's brother Eugene delivered a final blow.
(on camera): I know it's your brother and I know you love him. But did you think it was necessary to take it that far?
BULLOCK: They brought those weapons to the fight. That's what people are not understanding. HOLMES: But Derrion was down. Why do you think your brother had to go after and hit this kid, who clearly wasn't a threat any more, at least.
BULLOCK: He was another body, another body with two hands that could have been swinging on anybody.
HOLMES (voice-over): After video of the brawl was released, Vashion's brother Eugene was taken into custody. One of four teens charged in the killing of Derrion Albert.
BULLOCK: I'm just saying they should let all of them go because it was just a fight. I don't - fights happen daily.
HOLMES (on camera): But you know for the police and the justice system, that isn't good enough. Your brother picked up something, hit a kid and the kid died.
BULLOCK: What about the other people that picked up the weapons and hit me? Where are they at?
HOLMES: Don't you think somebody should be held accountable for Derrion's death?
BULLOCK: No, not accountable for the whole thing because it was a mistake. Isn't nobody wanted him to die, and nobody meant for him to die, we just - it was a fight. Fights get out of hand. Not intentionally, just because.
T.J. Holmes, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Well, youth violence is not just part of gang culture. In T.J.'s piece tomorrow, we'll see how widespread it is in some schools and look at a program aimed at countering it.
I'm Betty Nguyen. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Tony Harris.
